PDA

View Full Version : What, are you nuts or something????


Tom
11-18-2011, 02:34 PM
that was the reaction of the congress today when they defeated a balanced budget amendment bill. I guess 14.3 trillion dosen't make anyone on the Hill think there is a problem.


What a bunch of morons!!!!!!
Hasn't congress outlived it's usefulness?
They solve no problems and only create new ones.

We need to take along look at our constitution - it is broken and needs to be junked. In the electronic age, there is no need to have a bunch of crooked, lying middle men - we need to go to pure democracy and forget the idiotic idea of a representative government.

rastajenk
11-18-2011, 02:56 PM
Good lord, Tom, you really don't want that. Really, you don't. :ThmbDown:

lamboguy
11-18-2011, 03:05 PM
why not, he's right

skate
11-18-2011, 03:05 PM
Good lord, Tom, you really don't want that. Really, you don't. :ThmbDown:


welp, not really , but how bout a little change.

hang all lobbiest.

term limits...maybe.

ArlJim78
11-18-2011, 03:11 PM
we all want the budget balanced, but how do you achieve it? some believe that a BBA is nothing but a license to raise taxes.

Tom
11-18-2011, 03:16 PM
You do it just everyone one of us does it - when you run out of money, you stop spending. Period.

Simple concept. Don't spend what you don't have.
If I know I have 50 bucks to last a week, I make sure I buy food and gas before beer and chips.

There is no reason intelligent people cannot do this - but then, the word intelligent and congress seldom go together.

Tom
11-18-2011, 03:18 PM
we all want the budget balanced, but how do you achieve it? some believe that a BBA is nothing but a license to raise taxes.

If they try, we now have our reaction laid out for us - take to the streets.
It is high time OUR side shut down this GD country. Let the 47% see what it is like when WE stop carrying their worthless asses. Shut it down.
No work for Americans. No tent,s no mobs, no marches, just NO WORK. No spending. No paying taxes. Shut her down.

skate
11-18-2011, 03:53 PM
Tom...beer and chips come first.

now...if you have not noticed, it is you and Judy Woodruff that remain as the only workers left.

shes got the lights, you grab the beer. and no hankey -pankey.:cool:

Zydeco
11-18-2011, 04:22 PM
If the opposite of "pro" is "con" then the opposite of progress is congress! :lol:

mostpost
11-18-2011, 05:04 PM
Two bad ideas in one thread-in one opening post. A balanced budget amendment is a bad idea because it ties the hands of the government in a time of crisis. You balance the budget at the beginning of the fiscal year and a catastrophe strikes. You have no way of dealing with the crisis. Then there is the matter of how do you balance the budget. Democrats say raise taxes. Republicans say no. Republicans say cut entitlements. Democrats say no. Gridlock.

True democracy in place of representative democracy? An even worse idea than the first, if that is possible. First problem is the security of the vote. Is everyone supposed to vote on their computers. Computers can be hacked. The computer that counts the votes can be hacked. Yes votes can be changed to no and vice versa. This has already happened.

Problem number two: Hundreds, maybe thousands of bills come before congress every year. Most people do not care about most of them. Most people would not understand the nuances of most bills. A typical bill involves changes to existing bills. Bills are written in legal language. This is necessary in order to ensure they cover the subject.
Congress has experts it can call on to testify. Experts will not come to Tom's house to explain the nuances of a new tax code. He wouldn't understand anyway. Neither would I.

Problem number three. The typical person is susceptible to false information if that information reinforces his beliefs. That has been proven here many times.

We have a good system. It is flawed as all human generated systems are, but it is infinitely better than letting everybody vote on everything.

mostpost
11-18-2011, 05:15 PM
You do it just everyone one of us does it - when you run out of money, you stop spending. Period.

Simple concept. Don't spend what you don't have.
If I know I have 50 bucks to last a week, I make sure I buy food and gas before beer and chips.

There is no reason intelligent people cannot do this - but then, the word intelligent and congress seldom go together.

You can budget your household. Wonderful. :rolleyes: What does that consist of?
Mortgage or rent. Food. Gas. Insurance. Electricity. Telephone. Internet and cable. Car payment. Taxes. Maybe a few other things. All for one little house in one little town in upper New York state. you don't have to worry about an Army. You need not worry about the roads. The schools are not your concern.
It does not matter to you if the food being sold at the grocery store is safe. If the fire truck has no gasoline why should you care? (Unless your house catches on fire.)

All these things are essential to the smooth functioning of our society. You can't stop providing these services because money is short. You can do without beer and chips. A community can not do without police and fire. The country can not do without the Armed Forces.

Greyfox
11-18-2011, 05:19 PM
If I know I have 50 bucks to last a week, I make sure I buy food and gas before beer and chips.

her.

Gotta agree with skate here. Tom maybe you should see a "shrink."

bigmack
11-18-2011, 05:23 PM
The country can not do without the Armed Forces.
Lookie you, getting all protective of the "Armed Forces." They'll have what they need, within reason. But your buddy, Chu, and all the other bureaucratic, G-people geeks, won't have a nickel to flush down toilets anymore.

BlueShoe
11-18-2011, 05:50 PM
We need to take along look at our constitution - it is broken and needs to be junked. In the electronic age, there is no need to have a bunch of crooked, lying middle men - we need to go to pure democracy and forget the idiotic idea of a representative government.
Think that I may have felt the earth tremble, because, on this issue, for perhaps the first and only time, I side with Mosty and not Tom. The Constitution is not broken, just the men and women that have ignored and bypassed its principles. A pure democracy is a terrible idea, it would be mob rule and send us into total chaos. A balanced budget amendment is a good idea, but it must include a clause that would suspend it in time of war or other extreme crisis.

ArlJim78
11-18-2011, 06:15 PM
You can budget your household. Wonderful. :rolleyes: What does that consist of?
Mortgage or rent. Food. Gas. Insurance. Electricity. Telephone. Internet and cable. Car payment. Taxes. Maybe a few other things. All for one little house in one little town in upper New York state. you don't have to worry about an Army. You need not worry about the roads. The schools are not your concern.
It does not matter to you if the food being sold at the grocery store is safe. If the fire truck has no gasoline why should you care? (Unless your house catches on fire.)

All these things are essential to the smooth functioning of our society. You can't stop providing these services because money is short. You can do without beer and chips. A community can not do without police and fire. The country can not do without the Armed Forces.
what utter nonsense to say that Tom doesn't have to worry about those things like roads schools firemen etc. He is paying for all of that along with his own bills.
smooth functioning of our society my ass, the only things that run smooth are the things government doesn't touch which is very little.

when the government has an emergency its no big deal because they can run a deficit, print money or raise taxes or all three. when Tom or anyone else has an emergency they have to keep paying the freight for all of government (which is loaded up with crap that we don't need and wasteful boondoggles) and still manage their own emergency which means dipping into savings or doing without or lowering your standard of living or all three. government NEVER does without. It's the only growing entity in our society. We're now past the point of no return in my view and government will now always grow more than the private sector, which mean sooner or later we're screwed. just wait until we start defaulting and you'll see how many of what you consider essential government services that we can do without. we could lop off 3-4 agencies right now and save billions and they would never be missed.

Johnny V
11-18-2011, 07:01 PM
If we junked our Constitution could you imagine what would happen when these incompetents in Washington come up with a new one. I venture to say we would have something entirely different with many of our rights taken away. They circumvent the Constitution as it is. They would really run amok creating a new one. The one we have is a good one. Our country achieved great success and prosperity with our present Constitution. If only they would follow it in the spirit in which our founding fathers wrote it our country would not be in the mess it is in.

Actor
11-19-2011, 04:36 AM
You do it just everyone one of us does it - when you run out of money, you stop spending. Period.

Simple concept. Don't spend what you don't have.
Not "everyone of us does it." When they run out of money, they borrow. Witness the number of TV ads promising to lower your debt or wipe it out entirely. And the bankruptcy industry is growing.

A BBA simply will not work. I say that simply by looking at history. America has always had a national debt. While it's true that Andrew Jackson got it paid off, his successor, Martin Van Buren, ran it right back up.

BBA supporters point out that 49 of the states have a BB requirement. What they don't point out is that most of those state laws have loopholes which essentially render them meaningless. Some of those states simply require the governor to submit a balanced budget; the legislature is not required to honor it.

The current national debt is the highest ever but, if you adjust for inflation, it is not egregiously high. Adjusted for inflation, the debt at the end of WWII was higher but it was paid down within 10-15 years. How? By imposing a marginal income tax rate of 90% on the wealthy.

Tom
11-19-2011, 10:11 AM
Originally Posted by mostpost
The country can not do without the Armed Forces.

Then how do you explain the automatic defense cuts should (when) the super-duper committee fails? We will be rolled back to the point that Kaiser Wilhelm would be able to give us a run for our money.

Tom
11-19-2011, 10:13 AM
Not "everyone of us does it." When they run out of money, they borrow. Witness the number of TV ads promising to lower your debt or wipe it out entirely. And the bankruptcy industry is growing.

I don't buy your premise.

thaskalos
11-19-2011, 10:35 AM
The fault does not lie in the Constitution...which has been amended almost beyond recognition.

The fault lies in us...for falling asleep at the wheel!

In any "true" democracy, it is the PEOPLE who have the power!

But we, "the people", have been distracted by our own petty concerns, and have allowed our "leaders" - who, in reality, have taken an oath to work for us - to turn this system of government into a vehicle which only enriches THEMSELVES and their "connections"...while it diminishes and embarrasses us.

We have forgotten that WE are America; not "Capitol Hill"...

Tom
11-19-2011, 10:54 AM
The fatal flaw in the constitution is that is assumed honest men of character.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Term limits are mandatory. Without TL, the constitution is worthless.

thaskalos
11-19-2011, 10:59 AM
The fatal flaw in the constitution is that is assumed honest men of character.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Term limits are mandatory. Without TL, the constitution is worthless.
Term limits will not solve the problem, IMO.

They will just find ways to get what they want in only one term...

Greyfox
11-19-2011, 11:07 AM
Enact a Law that a certain % of the National Debt must be paid down every year.
Include in that Law the clause that when the Debt is finally paid off, Revenue and Spending must be balanced from then on.
Administrators/Pols not following that Law would be subject to recall.
(I'm not a pol but I expect some will say the above idea is impossible as we can't predict natural disasters and wars. However, if the desire to make it work was there, it would work.)

thaskalos
11-19-2011, 11:20 AM
Start by enacting a law which states:

"No law should exist which grants rights or privileges to politicians and their families -- which are not offered to the citizens at large."

cj's dad
11-19-2011, 11:50 AM
The thing I find totally absurd is that the U.S. Conress will remain in their "botique" medical plan while the rest of us are forced into some type of gov't controlled plan.

Talk about "do as I say, not as I do."

skate
11-19-2011, 04:28 PM
much like capping a race, it isn't structure, it is more give and take, but in this case the giving is way too much...so stop it, not all at once as Mostly Toasted suggest, just put the procedure in motion.
This is not the time nor the place for the ALL button.

Actor
11-19-2011, 11:41 PM
I don't buy your premise.
Fine! Look it up yourself. Google "average debt American household."

http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474976753606

It seems through recent surveys and studies that Kentuckians are going into debt for much the same reasons as the rest of the nation, for necessities.

mostpost
11-20-2011, 01:17 AM
The fatal flaw in the constitution is that is assumed honest men of character.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

No, it didn't. Read Madison's notes on the Constitutional Convention. Much of the discussion was on whether to allow direct election of Representatives. Many of the delegates wanted both houses elected by state legislatures because they feared the people would be taken in by unscrupulous men.

There are many instances in Madison's notes where it is acknowledged that all men are not honest all the time.

mostpost
11-20-2011, 01:22 AM
The thing I find totally absurd is that the U.S. Conress will remain in their "botique" medical plan while the rest of us are forced into some type of gov't controlled plan.

Talk about "do as I say, not as I do."

You are correct except Congress does not have a Boutique medical plan and the rest of us are not being forced into some type of Government controlled plan. Which, come to think of it are the only two points you made. :rolleyes:
Oh yeah, there are two U's in Boutique.

mostpost
11-20-2011, 01:25 AM
Fine! Look it up yourself. Google "average debt American household."

http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474976753606
You have been on this board for a year and a half, and you still don't know Tom's motto. "I've made up my mind already, stop confusing me with the facts."

Actor
11-20-2011, 01:26 AM
they feared the people would be taken in by unscrupulous men.You mean it wasn't supposed to be this way? :lol: :lol:

cj's dad
11-20-2011, 08:05 AM
You are correct except Congress does not have a Boutique medical plan and the rest of us are not being forced into some type of Government controlled plan. Which, come to think of it are the only two points you made. :rolleyes:
Oh yeah, there are two U's in Boutique.

From Fact Check.org:

Q: What type of health insurance do members of Congress receive? Is it a single-payer, government-run system?

A: Members of Congress are covered by private insurance under the same system that covers all federal workers.



FULL ANSWER

Members of Congress have good health insurance by any standard, but it’s not free and not reserved only for them – and it’s not government insurance. House and Senate members are allowed to purchase private health insurance offered through the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program (http://www.opm.gov/INSURE/HEALTH/INDEX.ASP), which covers more than 8 million other federal employees, retirees and their families.

It’s not a "single-payer" system where the government acts as the one and only health insurance company. As President Bush’s chief of personnel Kay Coles James said in 2003, while lecturing at the conservative Heritage Foundation, "the FEHB program is not centralized, government-run health care." It has drawn praise both from conservatives and liberals, including President Obama, who held it up as a model for his own health care proposals.

According to the Congressional Research Service (http://mcmorris.house.gov/uploads/August2009HealthCareBenefitsforMembersofCongress.P DF), the FEHBP offers about 300 different private health care plans, including five government-wide, fee-for-service plans and many regional health maintenance organization (HMO) plans, plus high-deductible, tax-advantaged plans. All plans cover hospital, surgical and physician services, and mental health services, prescription drugs and "catastrophic" coverage against very large medical expenses. There are no waiting periods for coverage when new employees are hired, and there are no exclusions for preexisting conditions. The FEHBP negotiates contracts annually with all insurance companies who wish to participate. There is plenty of competition for the business; FEHBP is the largest employer-sponsored health plan in the U.S.

Those who don’t like their coverage may switch to another plan during a yearly "open season" period. To help with the choices, FEHBP conducts an annual "satisfaction survey" (http://www.opm.gov/insure/health/planinfo/quality/satisfaction.asp) of each plan with more than 500 members and publishes the results.




Looks pretty boUtique to me. No wonder the country is going broke, supporting sycophants like you and them. Who the hell else has this kind of coverage ??

Tom
11-20-2011, 09:53 AM
Many of the delegates wanted both houses elected by state legislatures because they feared the people would be taken in by unscrupulous men.

There are many instances in Madison's notes where it is acknowledged that all men are not honest all the time.

Which was my point - they assumed the representatives wold be honest men of integrity, so they could save us from ourselves. Which was it's fatal flaw. No one in government has any integrity or is honest. Far easier to corrupt a few rather than the many. Which is what the Obama administration demonstrates in everything they have done do far.