Demise of the brick and mortar bookstore

[DJofSD]

Every time I go into any of my local Barnes and Noble bookstore, I am disappointed and sad. It just keeps getting worse and worse. The number of books in any section decrease, the amount of new releases decrease. And what was a new book even just weeks ago are no longer in the store.

They going to have to make electronic books much cheaper before I start to buy them. And they are going to have to do a better job offering sneak peaks or previews especially when it comes to technical books.

Any one else sorry to see the both the record and now the book stores disappear before our eyes?

[rastajenk]

Absolutely. I used to visit bookstores much more frequently; browsing for something you might not even know you're looking for was a great way to spend some spare time. I don't do it anymore, or at most, rarely. I guess that makes me part of the problem.

I'm not Kindle'd. I was dragged kicking and screaming into the internet age, and am sort of a tech Luddite in most matters. But there's no life left in print media.

I think Blue Shoe in the generational thread mentioned that he still likes to use an atlas. I am totally with him on that. There are some things electronic media shouldn't have to improve on. But a store that sells just atlases probably isn't a sustainable business model. :)

There is probably nothing electronic media can't eventually improve on. There, fixed that for myself. :cool:

[offtrack]

A store that sells maps and atlases exists in the Albany/Saratoga NY area.

Jimapco sells maps, charts, globes, ets. There are a lot of local maps for the NY region & roads, local topo maps that outdoor sportsmen like.

At least I hope it still exists, a unique business.

[rastajenk]

Yeah, I have seen them. Niche shops like that are great.

[badcompany]

The current business model doesn't support the infrastructure. It is what it is.

I don't miss bookstores and record stores at all. For all intents, Kindles, IPADs and IPODs are book and record stores that can fit in your pocket.

The only problem I have with my Kindle is prioritization. With so much material readily available it's hard to stick with anything.

[Robert Fischer]

anyone know of an e-reader /tablet /kindle/ nook? etc...

that isn't hard on the eyes?

something about looking at a page of a REAL BOOK that is easy on the eyes...

[GameTheory]

anyone know of an e-reader /tablet /kindle/ nook? etc...

that isn't hard on the eyes?

something about looking at a page of a REAL BOOK that is easy on the eyes...Kindles are supposed to be that way if you haven't tried them -- you can read in the sunlight, etc.

I'd like to point out that big box stores like B&N and Borders killed a gazillion smaller independent bookstores in the past recent decades before the internet came along and killed them.

[BlueShoe]

As a person that has spent hundreds, if not thousands, of hours in bookstores during their lifetime, this is another disturbing trend. Recently Borders went out of business, and shopping the close out sale was almost like attending a wake. Have never purchased an E-book in my life and have no intention of ever doing so. Subscribe to and read a daily newspaper and several magazines and will continue to do so. Newspapers are going away and getting smaller and the quality is declining as well; this is another topic. Have had and use a library card all of my life. However, going to the library today can be unpleasant due to boorish bahavior by others; cell phones, loud talking, out of control children, eating and drinking, etc. Will always rely on the printed word and give it priority over the electronic media.

[DJofSD]

anyone know of an e-reader /tablet /kindle/ nook? etc...

that isn't hard on the eyes?

something about looking at a page of a REAL BOOK that is easy on the eyes...
I have in an off and on again manner done some research about ebook readers. But, being technically astute has made it difficult. Attempting to discover answers to even simple questions like how do I back up my ebooks, and, what happens if I lose my reader or it becomes unusable, have been elusive.

I find the typical 'gee whiz, it's cool, you just buy it and use it, who cares about that stuff' is just not good enough for me. Having gone as far as using iTunes for my digital music library, I have my regrets. I am very apprehensive about finding myself locked into a digital book solution, building a library and then down the road regretting the decision for whatever reason.

[GameTheory]

I have in an off and on again manner done some research about ebook readers. But, being technically astute has made it difficult. Attempting to discover answers to even simple questions like how do I back up my ebooks, and, what happens if I lose my reader or it becomes unusable, have been elusive.

I find the typical 'gee whiz, it's cool, you just buy it and use it, who cares about that stuff' is just not good enough for me. Having gone as far as using iTunes for my digital music library, I have my regrets. I am very apprehensive about finding myself locked into a digital book solution, building a library and then down the road regretting the decision for whatever reason.Obviously read the FAQs and such, but real answer to those questions is on user forums. Google stuff like "Kindle problem", look for relevant forums, etc. There will be a fair amount of BS as usual, but the internet knows all...

[DJofSD]

Obviously read the FAQs and such, but real answer to those questions is on user forums. Google stuff like "Kindle problem", look for relevant forums, etc. There will be a fair amount of BS as usual, but the internet knows all...
GT, I don't want to get on your bad side here, but, I've been there done that. Reading through user support forums is a waste of my time.

I do technical support for a living. And, I am used to being able to narrow down searches to get the answer I need, and, if that fails, request assitance from the vendor. Kindle, iPad, Nook, et al, don't seem to offer anything like that.

[TJDave]

Absolutely. I used to visit bookstores much more frequently; browsing for something you might not even know you're looking for was a great way to spend some spare time. I don't do it anymore, or at most, rarely. I guess that makes me part of the problem.

I'm not Kindle'd. I was dragged kicking and screaming into the internet age, and am sort of a tech Luddite in most matters. But there's no life left in print media.


I still visit used bookstores, sometimes making 100+ mile pilgrimages. That's where the treasures are.

Last year I got a Kindle as a gift, something I never would have bought for myself. I'm a convert. Neatest thing since sliced bread.

[Canarsie]

The demand for rare and used books is still there but declining.

My friend sells them the last time we met he was mailing a book about bananas that sold for well over $100. When I go there it's absolutely amazing that he has so many books in his place of residence it's like a small library.

[JustRalph]

I still visit used bookstores, sometimes making 100+ mile pilgrimages. That's where the treasures are.

Last year I got a Kindle as a gift, something I never would have bought for myself. I'm a convert. Neatest thing since sliced bread.

My wife held out until I gave her one as a gift. Now she carries it everywhere she goes.

The Kindle Books are tied to the Kindle account with amazon. You really don't need to back them up. One Amazon Kindle account can have the books tied to it, on six different devices. If you toss your kindle into the ocean after 2 years all you have to do is buy a new one and register it (Just log in) You can then download all of your books onto the new one. Or you can open up the kindle software on any device you want (IPad/Desktop/Phone) and just go on reading whatever you want.

I currently have books on an IPAD, the wife's kindle, My Sprint EVO phone, and two desktops. All from the same account. It's so easy.......you can't bitch once you start using it.

[GameTheory]

GT, I don't want to get on your bad side here, but, I've been there done that. Reading through user support forums is a waste of my time.

I do technical support for a living. And, I am used to being able to narrow down searches to get the answer I need, and, if that fails, request assitance from the vendor. Kindle, iPad, Nook, et al, don't seem to offer anything like that.I don't mean any kind of official support forums -- that's the opposite of what I mean. I mean seeking out people like yourself that have already taken the plunge and are complaining about all the problems and limitations. Whenever I want to buy a new piece of technology, there are always discussions SOMEWHERE that get into the nitty-gritty of every available detail (and enumeration of which details are unknown by anyone). Trust me, you're not the only person in the world with the concerns that you have, and the answers (or non-answers, which is an answer in itself) are out there...

[GameTheory]

I still visit used bookstores, sometimes making 100+ mile pilgrimages. That's where the treasures are. Yeah, I do the same thing. I think it is about time to get a Kindle (I see they are now lending books w/ Prime membership and many library books will now work with Kindle), but I'm afraid of the demise of used books. The main problem with digital stuff is that (so far, anyway) you never really own it and can't transfer ownership to someone else.

[DJofSD]

Yeah, I do the same thing. I think it is about time to get a Kindle (I see they are now lending books w/ Prime membership and many library books will now work with Kindle), but I'm afraid of the demise of used books. The main problem with digital stuff is that (so far, anyway) you never really own it and can't transfer ownership to someone else.
Best used book store I have ever visited is Powell's in Portland, OR. If you ever have a chance to go there, do so, you will not regret it (make sure you have the major part of a day to spend if you do).

I recall one vendor has a system that will allow you to lend your ebooks. I don't recall if that goes as far as reselling.

[GameTheory]

Best used book store I have ever visited is Powell's in Portland, OR. If you ever have a chance to go there, do so, you will not regret it (make sure you have the major part of a day to spend if you do).Yeah, I've been there, but Powell's is somewhat diminished as a browsable store looking for treasures because they have their whole (I think) inventory online at powells.com, which means you are unlikely to find that $100 book for $5. Their tech bookstore seemed generally over-priced as well.

Back when Detroit was a city with people living in it, John King books downtown was quite good -- a giant several story warehouse full of books. They are still there I think, but without the city around them not as good. I used to go to Ann Arbor all the time looking for books -- there was a used bookstore on every corner. Most of them have closed.

I like real bookstores for discovering new things -- when I know exactly what I want it is usually cheaper and faster to find it online.

[DJofSD]

Here's a little wrinkle I just found on Twitter: http://www.i-programmer.info/news/152-epub/3313-kindle-cloud-reader-for-firefox.html

[TJDave]

My favorite was Acres of Books in Long Beach. I would drive from TJ, San Diego or Palm Springs and spend the day. You could find bargains. Place closed in '08.

Depressing. :(

[Canarsie]

Best used book store I have ever visited is Powell's in Portland, OR. If you ever have a chance to go there, do so, you will not regret it (make sure you have the major part of a day to spend if you do).

I recall one vendor has a system that will allow you to lend your ebooks. I don't recall if that goes as far as reselling.

I bought my first online book from them if I recall correctly. Well it was sort of online that's where I looked at it pretty sure I had to mail them a check. Could have been through ABE not 100% sure.

[wisconsin]

I stumbled across Willis Monie used books in Cooperstown, NY. Bought a couple of racing books real cheap.

[GameTheory]

My favorite was Acres of Books in Long Beach. I would drive from TJ, San Diego or Palm Springs and spend the day. You could find bargains. Place closed in '08.Been there too. That place was a mess (literally) as I recall. I love used bookstores, but those that smell like mildew and have zero organization I can do without...

[badcompany]

My wife held out until I gave her one as a gift. Now she carries it everywhere she goes.

The Kindle Books are tied to the Kindle account with amazon. You really don't need to back them up. One Amazon Kindle account can have the books tied to it, on six different devices. If you toss your kindle into the ocean after 2 years all you have to do is buy a new one and register it (Just log in) You can then download all of your books onto the new one. Or you can open up the kindle software on any device you want (IPad/Desktop/Phone) and just go on reading whatever you want.

I currently have books on an IPAD, the wife's kindle, My Sprint EVO phone, and two desktops. All from the same account. It's so easy.......you can't bitch once you start using it.

People are generally resistant to change but this is one for the better. In addition to what you mentioned, e-readers don't have to be held open like a book and the font can be adjusted which is a help to those who don't have great eyesight.

[TJDave]

In addition to what you mentioned, e-readers don't have to be held open like a book

This is actually one of the few reasons I don't like mine. IMO, it needs an opposable screen and open like a book. I often skip ahead or refer back to the previous page. I'd like to simply move my eyesight.

[redshift1]

My favorite was Acres of Books in Long Beach. I would drive from TJ, San Diego or Palm Springs and spend the day. You could find bargains. Place closed in '08.

Depressing. :(

Do you remember Acres of Books was originally located on Pacific, adjacent
to the Library and park where they held an outdoor farmers market one or two day's a week.

The original was an absolute labyrinth redolent with the smell of books. The atmosphere was like a set from a Harry Potter movie, tight dimly aisles with the occasional light to find your way.

[Robert Fischer]

Kindles are supposed to be that way if you haven't tried them -- you can read in the sunlight, etc.

I'd like to point out that big box stores like B&N and Borders killed a gazillion smaller independent bookstores in the past recent decades before the internet came along and killed them.


I'll have to look into Kindle.

Bought an early model e-reader for the kids when they first started being mainstream, and wasn't thrilled.

[Greyfox]

I read an article that claimed awhile back that reading comprehension scores are higher for regular books than e books.
To me that seems logical, but I don't have a reference to the researchers that did the study.

[RaceBookJoe]

I read an article that claimed awhile back that reading comprehension scores are higher for regular books than e books.
To me that seems logical, but I don't have a reference to the researchers that did the study.

Just heard that 1 school district here in Vegas wont be teaching writing anymore. Vegas used to have a great used book store, but it closed down about 2 or 3 yrs ago. They had a nice collection of horse racing/handicapping books. They had an autographed copy of "Pace Makes The Race", i didnt buy it, went back a couple of weeks later to get it and the store was closed. :bang: rbj

[Pace Cap'n]

Kindles are supposed to be that way if you haven't tried them -- you can read in the sunlight, etc.



But not in the dark.

[bigmack]

The main problem with digital stuff is that (so far, anyway) you never really own it and can't transfer ownership to someone else.
Without opening a Napster-like debate, it's easy enough to share MOBI files (Kindle format) and certainly free & easy enough to convert MOBI to PDF to read with iPad or anything.

[GameTheory]

But not in the dark.Can't read a regular book in the dark either. I don't want to read in the dark.

Without opening a Napster-like debate, it's easy enough to share MOBI files (Kindle format) and certainly free & easy enough to convert MOBI to PDF to read with iPad or anything.Not if they are DRM'd or whatever. Not easily, legally.

[dav4463]

I like the smell of books!

[pandy]

I love book stores and I hope Barnes And Noble and others don't go out of business. I love to read but I don't have Kindle. My main problem with Kindle is there is no trade. For instance, I often buy a book at the store then I sell it on Amazon as soon as I'm done so I get to read the book at my leisure and it only cost me a couple of bucks. Or I buy a book from Amazon or the bookstore, find that it sucks, and quickly sell it on Amazon. Occasionally I've made profits on books that I owned that went out of print and I sold them for ridiculous prices. With Kindle it would cost me a lot more to read than it does now. It's not just the money, I love trading things. I do the same thing with music discs like Super Audio, cds, etc. Buy, sell, collect. Can't do that with Kindle, you buy it and it stops there.

[GameTheory]

I love book stores and I hope Barnes And Noble and others don't go out of business. I love to read but I don't have Kindle. My main problem with Kindle is there is no trade. For instance, I often buy a book at the store then I sell it on Amazon as soon as I'm done so I get to read the book at my leisure and it only cost me a couple of bucks. Or I buy a book from Amazon or the bookstore, find that it sucks, and quickly sell it on Amazon. Occasionally I've made profits on books that I owned that went out of print and I sold them for ridiculous prices. With Kindle it would cost me a lot more to read than it does now. It's not just the money, I love trading things. I do the same thing with music discs like Super Audio, cds, etc. Buy, sell, collect. Can't do that with Kindle, you buy it and it stops there.Yep. If I can't resell it or buy stuff cheap "second-hand", then the prices need to come way down. I think I will get a Kindle cause they are cheap enough now to be worth it just for the library books, for the books they are now lending with Prime membership, and for all the free classics they have available (I can catch up on my Charles Dickens, etc). But I can't see myself actually buying new books except once in a blue moon -- or maybe only technical books that I expect to be out-of-date after a couple years anyway. But a good book is a treasured item in my home, my most precious possessions actually -- not ready to make the mental jump to a disposable and invisible digital item.

[thaskalos]

Eventhough I am a book fanatic, I have not been in a bookstore for years. I buy all my books from Amazon.com.

The independent booksellers who sell through the Amazon website, list books of all interests - in new or "like new" condition - for pennies...plus shipping.

The same with DVDs.

Frankly...I am surprised the brick and mortar bookstores have lasted as long as they have...

[DJofSD]

Eventhough I am a book fanatic, I have not been in a bookstore for years. I buy all my books from Amazon.com.

The independent booksellers who sell through the Amazon website, list books of all interests - in new or "like new" condition - for pennies...plus shipping.

The same with DVDs.

Frankly...I am surprised the brick and mortar bookstores have lasted as long as they have...
Interesting that you still buy hardcopy version of books but you don't support any local book mongers? Even the independents?

[Robert Goren]

Book stores are nice place to kill some time. Barnes and Nobles are really nice. You can spend an hour or two browsing, buy a book and read part of it while sipping a latte at the in house Starbucks. I know inspite of that, I know buy my books online because they are quite a bit cheaper. The place use to be packed this time of year, but these days you shoot cannon off in the place and not hit anyone.

[maddog42]

The current business model doesn't support the infrastructure. It is what it is.

I don't miss bookstores and record stores at all. For all intents, Kindles, IPADs and IPODs are book and record stores that can fit in your pocket.

The only problem I have with my Kindle is prioritization. With so much material readily available it's hard to stick with anything.

There are about 20 million books or more which have never and probably will never be on a kindle.

[DJofSD]

There are about 20 million books or more which have never and probably will never be on a kindle.
And about 1 million of those are in my personal library. Well, at least it seems that way.

[thaskalos]

Interesting that you still buy hardcopy version of books but you don't support any local book mongers? Even the independents?

I admit that my mood towards the independents soured when I took 4 boxes of books, in excellent condition, to a local used bookseller...because I no longer had the space for them.

They offered me 75 cents a book, which I reluctantly accepted because I didn't feel like carrying the books back home.

In the days to come, I noticed that they had priced my books at $8.99 and up...

I figured that, if the bookstores are only out for themselves, I would be as well...

[DJofSD]

I admit that my mood towards the independents soured when I took 4 boxes of books, in excellent condition, to a local used bookseller...because I no longer had the space for them.

They offered me 75 cents a book, which I reluctantly accepted because I didn't feel like carrying the books back home.

In the days to come, I noticed that they had priced my books at $8.99 and up...

I figured that, if the bookstores are only out for themselves, I would be as well...
OK. Thanks for the explanation. I now understand.

Kind of reminds me of college. You'd buy the books (new) for your classes then at the end of the term, sell them back to the bookstore. Then, they'd resell them at a huge mark up. But, would your classes and instructors be using books from prior terms, giving you a chance to save money by buying used copies of required text? Hell no. I think the departments and the bookstore were in cohotes with each other. It was even worse if the prof had written his own book. Worse because you know every term, there was a newer edition that was required.

[pandy]

Amazon certainly was a game changer. A book is worth what it sells for on Amazon, new or used, that's the market price. It does put a lot of pressure on book stores. Between Ebay and Amazon, those two sites set the market price on a lot of items including collectibles.

But at Barnes & Noble I can grab a few new books that I want to check out, buy a hot cup of Java and relax for a hour or so. Nice.

[Steve 'StatMan']

What's all this fuss I hear about Frickin Mortal book stores? All of us mortals, especially the young, should be encouraged to buy and read good books. And besides, we're all mortal, why put down the whole human race when we're all pretty much alike and all need to read books and magazines...Brick and Mortar? Oh...that's completely different! ..... Never Mind.

[pandy]

Barnes & Noble now has their "Nook" on sale for $99. I wasn't even aware until I read on this thread that you can borrow from your library on these readers. That could be a game changer for me.

[Tom]

What's all this fuss I hear about Frickin Mortal book stores? All of us mortals, especially the young, should be encouraged to buy and read good books. And besides, we're all mortal, why put down the whole human race when we're all pretty much alike and all need to read books and magazines...Brick and Mortar? Oh...that's completely different! ..... Never Mind.

Calm down, Emily.

[thaskalos]

Barnes & Noble now has their "Nook" on sale for $99. I wasn't even aware until I read on this thread that you can borrow from your library on these readers. That could be a game changer for me.
But what about that hot cup of java at Barnes & Noble's? :)

[DJofSD]

What's all this fuss I hear about Frickin Mortal book stores? All of us mortals, especially the young, should be encouraged to buy and read good books. And besides, we're all mortal, why put down the whole human race when we're all pretty much alike and all need to read books and magazines...Brick and Mortar? Oh...that's completely different! ..... Never Mind.
Gilda (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3FnpaWQJO0) ? Is that you?

[pandy]

But what about that hot cup of java at Barnes & Noble's? :)


You're right, can't beat that. As a small independent book publisher I guess I should be learning more about turning my stuff into ebooks because it will definitely increase sales.

[thaskalos]

You're right, can't beat that. As a small independent book publisher I guess I should be learning more about turning my stuff into ebooks because it will definitely increase sales.


http://www.amazon.com/How-Sold-Million-eBooks-Months/dp/1935670913/ref=pd_sim_b_3

[DJofSD]

Oh, great, an ebook about ebooks. Where will it end? :)

[Tom]

Oh, great, an ebook about ebooks. Where will it end? :)

When they make it into a movie.
And you watch it on You Tube.

[DJofSD]

Ya, I guess bad movies won't be going to DVD right away no longer. They'll just show up on YouTube.

[Tom]

I'm living in a digital world with an analog paycheck!