Beyer calls uncle mo "the most underprepared horse in a major dirt race" he has seen

[toussaud]

http://www.drf.com/news/beyer-uncle-mo-classic-bold-ill-advised-move


I cannot recall a good horse going into a major race on dirt so underprepared as Uncle Mo will be Saturday. The distance of 1 1/4 miles often poses a tough challenge for horses who excel at shorter distances. There are 137 years of Kentucky Derby history to prove that point. Trainers plan the schedules of Derby candidates months in advance to make sure they will be fit enough to go the distance.

But trainer Todd Pletcher didn’t have time to give Uncle Mo anything resembling a conventional sequence of prep races. He acknowledged his plan was dictated by “the cards that we were dealt in the spring.” As a result, the colt will go into the most demanding test of his life without any stamina-building prep races. His minimal preparation − two starts since early April, at distances of seven furlongs and one mile − is a sharp contrast with his rivals’ regimens. Since the spring, Havre de Grace has made six starts this year at distances from 1 1/16 miles to 1 1/4 miles, winning five of them. The international star So You Think has raced seven times at 1 1/4 miles or longer in the last six months.


those are damn near fighting words lol.

But if he gets trounced − a distinct possibility − his 3-year-old season will go down as a total failure. A horse of his talent deserves a better legacy. And he deserves the chance to show what he can do when he is at his very best.

I tend to agree. It just seems like we have seen this movie one too many times. shooting stars that you can see the writing on the wall, go out with a flutter undeserving of horses of that calibur.

[Valuist]

I don't think he's going to be near 3-1 or 7-2, whatever the morning line is, and whatever the UK books have him at. The UK books are very good at setting lines on grass races for international fields but they are very suspect at line making for American dirt races.

I predict Uncle Mo will be at least 5-1 this Saturday, and possibly higher than that, IMO. And at 5-1 or 6-1 he still will be overbet.

[matthewsiv]

It does not matter what price he is if he cannot win the race.

[toussaud]

you really think so?

I think personally he's going to be around 3-1 / 7-2. Keep in mind, the "weekend warrior" money that is going to come in, is going to see uncle mo, and unload on him.

[tbwinner]

I don't see how he'll be more than 4-1. Repole said he'd make him the favorite in the Derby, I don't see why he's not gonna bet a ridiculous amount on Mo and Thirsty in the Classic. And I know probably not enough to move the line but there are people in similar position that think the same.

Do I think he'll win? No. Do I think he'll hit the board? No.

[Robert Fischer]

UNCLE MO to WIN
wire to wire

Churchill Downs where he easily won the Juvenile @ 8.5F

fresh,keeps moving forward.

his 2 prep races allowed him to improve in his comfort zone, hes at his peak now and is asked for his peak effort.

[andtheyreoff]

In the article, Andy mentions that Mo's connections could skip the Classic this year and run him there in 2012. As I recall, the connections of Holy Bull had the same idea, and we all know how that turned out.

Best to strike while the iron is hot, IMO. You never know what could happen next year.

[JustRalph]

I don't know much about horses, but on Jcgc day he looked fantastic and didn't seem winded when he came back. He did look a little thin to me.....but he looked great!

[classhandicapper]

One thing I think everyone can agree on is that this is a very tough spot given his level of experience going long.

[Casino]

The key race for Uncle Mo was his first race back ,he rated then pounced and got caught by a razor sharp Calebs Posse,imo if Mo has any chance to win this race he will have a similiar trip as in the King Bishop.How the track plays early in the day will also factor in on how JV will ride Uncle Mo.

Is he fit enough to win the race?Who knows,thats enough for me to pass.

[Spalding No!]

In the article, Andy mentions that Mo's connections could skip the Classic this year and run him there in 2012. As I recall, the connections of Holy Bull had the same idea, and we all know how that turned out.

Best to strike while the iron is hot, IMO. You never know what could happen next year.

Of course, Holy Bull had a Travers win and several 9f races under his belt by this time in his 3yo.

Holy Bull also was not nominated to the BC, which means they would have had to put up something like $360k to make him eligible to run, when he essentially had already locked up championship honors.

[toussaud]

In the article, Andy mentions that Mo's connections could skip the Classic this year and run him there in 2012. As I recall, the connections of Holy Bull had the same idea, and we all know how that turned out.

Best to strike while the iron is hot, IMO. You never know what could happen next year.

that's basically what frankel is doing next year.

[GatetoWire]

I think after today there is some question about whether or not he even races on Saturday.

His work on Sunday was very poor and his only walking the shedrow today is an indication of major vet work done on Monday to try to find what is ailing him.
If they are able to find the spot and he improves the next 3 days then he will be a go. If he continues to look poor in the morning I think they will scratch him on Saturday just like they did on Derby Day.

[Wiley]

Agree with Beyer here.
I'll add that Arazi in the '92 Derby might have been even more under prepared, think one, one mile grass race prep as a three year old prior to the Derby, did not turn out too well for him either.

Mo is a bet against even if he gets an extremely favorable pace scenario and Baffert says he is sending GOD, who had a very nice final work, to his inside so cannot see him wiring, THAS will also contend the pace early to his outside and think MO is questionable to run also given his poor work over the CD surface and lack of proper foundation for this race.

[horses4courses]

You would think that, as the years go by, people would realize that conventional wisdom does not always apply when it comes to preparing racehorses. Big Brown is the prime example when it comes to 3 year olds.

Of course, Uncle Mo has had more than his share of problems this year.
Bottom line is, though, that if he is ready to fire on Saturday, he will do just that. You can't dismiss Todd Pletcher's knowledge of the horse, and the position they find themselves in.

If Uncle Mo goes to post, a better judge than most figures he is ready to win.

[Spalding No!]

If Uncle Mo goes to post, a better judge than most figures he is ready to win.

Got that right:

“I told [jockey John Velazquez] when we left the paddock that I was concerned with the way she saddled,” Pletcher said. “She was abnormally quiet and sedate-like. I told him, ‘Warm her up well.’ She clearly probably should not have run.”

[cj]

I agree with Beyer as well. He won't be 5 to 2. Bettors can be dumb, but they aren't that dumb.

Sidenote, I can't think of anything good for racing coming from a horse like this winning the BC Classic then being shuttled off to the breeding shed.

[cj]

In the article, Andy mentions that Mo's connections could skip the Classic this year and run him there in 2012. As I recall, the connections of Holy Bull had the same idea, and we all know how that turned out.

Best to strike while the iron is hot, IMO. You never know what could happen next year.

Holy Bull had accomplished far more at that point than Uncle Mo has.

[horses4courses]

Got that right:

“I told [jockey John Velazquez] when we left the paddock that I was concerned with the way she saddled,” Pletcher said. “She was abnormally quiet and sedate-like. I told him, ‘Warm her up well.’ She clearly probably should not have run.”

So, I suppose Pletcher should be operating on the Ohio circuit only now?
Geezus.....

[cj]

I don't know much about horses, but on Jcgc day he looked fantastic and didn't seem winded when he came back. He did look a little thin to me.....but he looked great!

He also only ran about 2f that day.

[Robert Fischer]

you guys are talking about all the correct underlays this time.

all across the forum

:bang:


looks like im going to have to focus on the fillies and mares and the turf races this time.

[JustRalph]

He also only ran about 2f that day.

Agreed. I just heard "the mig" talking about how Mo doesn't look like the same horse that was in NY last month. On Byk's show. That worries me.........when it comes to Mo........... I really like listening to Migliore .....great voice to add to the NY York racing media scene. :ThmbUp:

[Wiley]

You can't dismiss Todd Pletcher's knowledge of the horse, and the position they find themselves in.

If Uncle Mo goes to post, a better judge than most figures he is ready to win.
Like Quality Road was ready to win last year? Pletcher has never won the Classic, is one for many in the Derby and is a low 6 for 77 in BC races even after winning three last year, so I will gladly question his judgment on this one.

You are right there are exceptions and that's what they are exceptions, at 5-2 or less I'll take a stand that this is not an exceptions case.

[toussaud]

Agree with Beyer here.
I'll add that Arazi in the '92 Derby might have been even more under prepared, think one, one mile grass race prep as a three year old prior to the Derby, did not turn out too well for him either.

Mo is a bet against even if he gets an extremely favorable pace scenario and Baffert says he is sending GOD, who had a very nice final work, to his inside so cannot see him wiring, THAS will also contend the pace early to his outside and think MO is questionable to run also given his poor work over the CD surface and lack of proper foundation for this race.
I had to read that like 5 times before i realized GOD was game on dude. I thought you mean like.. you know.. god.. lol, as some type of joke

[Wiley]

I had to read that like 5 times before i realized GOD was game on dude. I thought you mean like.. you know.. god.. lol, as some type of joke
Baffert is a horse racing evangelical sometimes so guess it works both ways....

[horses4courses]

Like Quality Road was ready to win last year? Pletcher has never won the Classic, is one for many in the Derby and is a low 6 for 77 in BC races even after winning three last year, so I will gladly question his judgment on this one.

You are right there are exceptions and that's what they are exceptions, at 5-2 or less I'll take a stand that this is not an exceptions case.

I don't like Uncle Mo on Saturday.
His limitations are similar to Quality Road's as far as stamina goes in a true run 10 furlong race.

My problem with Beyer's stance, though, is that he won't be beaten strictly by a lack of preparation.
Had the horse run in the KY Derby with a faultless preparation, I believe he would have been found lacking in the final quarter.
Of course, we will never know.....

[Spalding No!]

So, I suppose Pletcher should be operating on the Ohio circuit only now?
Geezus.....

First Nixon, now Pletcher...

How did Ohio become such an easy mark?

[RXB]

Sons and daughters of Indian Charlie usually don't want 9f, never mind 10f, and they tend to bloom earlier rather than later. Uncle Mo hasn't won beyond 8.5f in his career, and not farther than a mile this year. Hasn't won a Gr 1 race since the BC Juvenile, either. Who wants this at modest odds, even allowing for the fact that the field isn't exactly stacked with talent this year?

It's easy for a horse to seem like a monster in one-turn mile races against ungraded and Gr 3 opposition, especially when allowed to lollygag in uncontested fashion on the front. Rarely does that translate into Gr 1 success at 10f, especially given the other serious question marks noted above.

[Canarsie]

I don't like him either but with all the sharp people making comments here against Mo how can he possibly go off shorter than 5/1? Not buying the weekend warrior argument the "against" wagering on this race will drown their opinion.

Maybe I'm wrong but 5/1 is about the right price with so many not so"frequent" customers wagering Saturday.

[Tom]

One thing I think everyone can agree on is that this is a very tough spot given his level of experience going long.

There is only one thing we can all agree on - that there is nothing we can all agree on! :D

Mo - lack of a good foundation for he Classic, declining physical appearance, lack-luster work.....

HDG, might not be as fit as we think, looking tucked up......

A Top Euro shipping in with connections paying close attention to details (blinkers and lasix), Stay Thirsty looking fantastic in his works, as is Flat Out.....we might have a very good betting race here.

[Valuist]

Sons and daughters of Indian Charlie usually don't want 9f, never mind 10f, and they tend to bloom earlier rather than later. Uncle Mo hasn't won beyond 8.5f in his career, and not farther than a mile this year. Hasn't won a Gr 1 race since the BC Juvenile, either. Who wants this at modest odds, even allowing for the fact that the field isn't exactly stacked with talent this year?

It's easy for a horse to seem like a monster in one-turn mile races against ungraded and Gr 3 opposition, especially when allowed to lollygag in uncontested fashion on the front. Rarely does that translate into Gr 1 success at 10f, especially given the other serious question marks noted above.

:ThmbUp:

You are 100% correct on all points.

I wonder what the odds of him actually running are? We've seen this story before where he scratches the day before the big race. This time, he'd be off to stud.

[toussaud]

oh he'll run. it's a no lose situation for repole. he's already gotten paid via ashford. there i no downside to him running up the track besides him having a new lowest of lows

[toussaud]

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/racing-news/2011/11/02/repole-eager-to-prove-critics-wrong-with-uncle-mo.aspx

[Spalding No!]

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/racing-news/2011/11/02/repole-eager-to-prove-critics-wrong-with-uncle-mo.aspx

“Have we ever seen [Uncle Mo] when he’s right that he has distance limitations? In the Kelso it looked like he could have went around two more times. Nobody’s going to know until 7:02 on Saturday.”

Personally, I think it'll be more like 7:02:04 1/5.

[jeebus1083]

If Uncle Mo were to somehow win on Saturday, I guarantee that Beyer's BC Classic post-mortem will either hail Uncle Mo as an immortal, or will attribute his win to the fact that the handicap division was "weak" this year.

[toussaud]

seriously if he won.. i think i would have to stop watching HRTV for a week or so

[Robert Fischer]

if he gets out on the pace and none of the closers can come up he's got a punchers chance.

i'm not crazy about the other speed.

he needs the race to set up for speed. maybe a little in the track.
he needs the closers to move prematurely or not fire a big one.

he needs to be right.

[Robert Fischer]

was supposed to kill the derby when all u knuckleheads had mo mania

thank god for AK


now you guys think mo is up against it for the classic...


you still have to CHOOSE ;)


who else is the best?

maybe you guys should dutch?

[toussaud]

if he gets out on the pace and none of the closers can come up he's got a punchers chance.

i'm not crazy about the other speed.

he needs the race to set up for speed. maybe a little in the track.
he needs the closers to move prematurely or not fire a big one.

he needs to be right.
he won't


for 2 reasons

first, game on dude has tactical speed and likes to be up close.


secondly and most importantly, johnny V has proven time and time again, he's not going to gun a horse early to the lead. he's going to try to sit off the pace and "conserve" the horses energy to get 10F and try to ask for run in the stretch.

[Robert Fischer]

MO >>>>>>>>>>> GOD

[toussaud]

I won't argue you that Mo is a better horse than Game on Dude (I refuse to use that abbrivation). But he isn't better at 10F.

keep in mind, Game on Dude is 3 for 3 on fast dirt tracks this year, 1 allowance win, 2 grade 1 wins. he hasn't lost all year on a fast dirt track and even has a 10F grade 1 win on dirt, something only 2 horses in the entire field can say.


Game on dude is my pick to win the race actually. While there are better talents in the race, IMHO there aren't many that are better at running long trhan Game on dude. he will run damn near all day long at a high level.

People aren't realizing just how distance limited this crop of horses is. about 70% of the horses this race want no part of 10F at all.

[Valuist]

was supposed to kill the derby when all u knuckleheads had mo mania

thank god for AK


now you guys think mo is up against it for the classic...


you still have to CHOOSE ;)


who else is the best?

maybe you guys should dutch?

Many of us were extremely disappointed when he scratched from the Derby because we wanted to toss him out of our exactas and tris, as he would've been seriously overbet.

FWIW, I tossed him out of last year's BC Juvenile too so I never was on board w/Uncle Mo.

[Robert Fischer]

Many of us were extremely disappointed when he scratched from the Derby because we wanted to toss him out of our exactas and tris, as he would've been seriously overbet.

FWIW, I tossed him out of last year's BC Juvenile too so I never was on board w/Uncle Mo.

war pass all over again :mad:

[RXB]

I don't like him either but with all the sharp people making comments here against Mo how can he possibly go off shorter than 5/1? Not buying the weekend warrior argument the "against" wagering on this race will drown their opinion.

Maybe I'm wrong but 5/1 is about the right price with so many not so"frequent" customers wagering Saturday.

He got a big Beyer figure in his last race, clearly the highest of any entrant, and he's been odds-on in every start except the BC Juvenile last year (whopping 7/5). I'd be very surprised if he goes off at anything close to 5/1. I think his final odds will be near his ML of 5/2.

[Spalding No!]

keep in mind, Game on Dude is 3 for 3 on fast dirt tracks this year, 1 allowance win, 2 grade 1 wins. he hasn't lost all year on a fast dirt track

We ignoring the Lone Star Handicap where both Awesome Gem and Flat Out put him away down the stretch?

[toussaud]

We ignoring the Lone Star Handicap where both Awesome Gem and Flat Out put him away down the stretch?
actually i forgot about that race. i'm doing all this off the top of my head.

but he came back and beat awesome gem in the goodwood, and beat first dude, twirling candy amount others in the santa naita handicap, you just aren't going to toss him out because he ran 3rd in the lone star race that would be silly. horses get hot and cold. it is what it is. it's like people are using excuses not to do any real handicapping


think it's a game on dude/ harve de grace / so you think straight trifecta



getting back to uncle mo, i just do not see a scenerio where he sits right off the pace, which is going to be a good one, makes a move and bold and determined move passing up the likes of flat out, harve de grace, game on dude

[Tom]

Inquiring minds want to know.....

>Are the three doctors observing Mo this week? :rolleyes:
>Life at 10, Part Deux?

[pondman]

Stay Thirsty looking fantastic in his works, as is Flat Out.....we might have a very good betting race here.

Mo is in this to help out :9: Stay Thirsty... Thirsty has proven himself able to drive on the rail but he wants the outside. Flat Out won't have his stable mate this time to press and hold thirsty on the rail. The reverse will be true in the BC. Mo will be the team player.

[FenceBored]

Inquiring minds want to know.....

>Are the three doctors observing Mo this week? :rolleyes:
>Life at 10, Part Deux?

Great minds think alike? I was kinda thinking that when toussaud said:

secondly and most importantly, johnny V has proven time and time again, he's not going to gun a horse early to the lead. he's going to try to sit off the pace and "conserve" the horses energy to get 10F and try to ask for run in the stretch.

Johnny V has proven? Do we really want to bring up what Johnny V has proven during Breeders' Cup week?

[Spalding No!]

actually i forgot about that race. i'm doing all this off the top of my head.

Next time hold the Form in front of your face instead of on top of your head.

but he came back and beat awesome gem in the goodwood, and beat first dude, twirling candy amount others in the santa naita handicap, you just aren't going to toss him out because he ran 3rd in the lone star race that would be silly.

Getting even on head-to-head terms with Awesome Gem doesn't make you a BC Classic contender. Of course, First Dude (used as a rabbit essentially) and Twirling Candy both beat Game On Dude more recently at 10f. Neither are in the Classic, either.

The only form of significance is that with Flat Out, who beat him well enough at 8.5f, and has only gotten better with subsequent racing. At 10f, he rates much higher than Game On Dude.

horses get hot and cold. it is what it is.

Game On Dude is probably the most consistent older horse out there. He's just not particularly fast.

it's like people are using excuses not to do any real handicapping

Well, when people are wearing their racing forms like they're hats, this is what you get.

I guess it must be raining in the vast majority of the country.

getting back to uncle mo, i just do not see a scenerio where he sits right off the pace, which is going to be a good one, makes a move and bold and determined move passing up the likes of flat out, harve de grace, game on dude

And yet Game On Dude will survive the fast pace? You didn't read Steve Haskin's blog, did you?

[CryingForTheHorses]

Like Quality Road was ready to win last year? Pletcher has never won the Classic, is one for many in the Derby and is a low 6 for 77 in BC races even after winning three last year, so I will gladly question his judgment on this one.

You are right there are exceptions and that's what they are exceptions, at 5-2 or less I'll take a stand that this is not an exceptions case.


Who knows..Maybe Pletcher really doesnt want to run him but is under pressure from Mike Repole!!

[plainolebill]

Whether you think he'll win or not, Uncle Mo going in the Classic adds a lot of spice. With that huge Beyer fig in his last race I don't see him going off at 5/1. The filly adds more juice, interesting race.

[toussaud]

Next time hold the Form in front of your face instead of on top of your head.



Getting even on head-to-head terms with Awesome Gem doesn't make you a BC Classic contender. Of course, First Dude (used as a rabbit essentially) and Twirling Candy both beat Game On Dude more recently at 10f. Neither are in the Classic, either.

The only form of significance is that with Flat Out, who beat him well enough at 8.5f, and has only gotten better with subsequent racing. At 10f, he rates much higher than Game On Dude.



Game On Dude is probably the most consistent older horse out there. He's just not particularly fast.



Well, when people are wearing their racing forms like they're hats, this is what you get.

I guess it must be raining in the vast majority of the country.



And yet Game On Dude will survive the fast pace? You didn't read Steve Haskin's blog, did you? dude i'm not going to get in a pissing contest. I have much better things to do on a Wednesday night. i like game on dude to win the race and i'm going to wager accordingly.

[toussaud]

Whether you think he'll win or not, Uncle Mo going in the Classic adds a lot of spice. With that huge Beyer fig in his last race I don't see him going off at 5/1. The filly adds more juice, interesting race.
i agree with that. even though I don't like him i do want to see him run


lol wow i just realized mo was the ML Fav. people actually like him MORE than flat out and HDG?

[Steve R]

The only form of significance is that with Flat Out, who beat him well enough at 8.5f, and has only gotten better with subsequent racing. At 10f, he rates much higher than Game On Dude.
Flat Out's JCGC was the co-second slowest (according to Beyer) in at least 20+ years and his best BSFs are at 9f. Pedigree-wise, Game On Dude (Awesome Again/Devil His Due) is better-bred for 10f than Flat Out (Flatter/Cresta Rider). OTOH, there's only one absolute 10f type in the field and he's likely on the wrong surface.

And yet Game On Dude will survive the fast pace? You didn't read Steve Haskin's blog, did you?
I didn't read it either, but Game On Dude has won three races this year by sitting just behind fast paces. I expect he will track Uncle Mo early (assuming Uncle Mo goes for the lead) and I expect Uncle Mo to fold relatively early as well. At this stage, I wouldn't be surprised by an upset winner like Ruler On Ice, for example, who seems to be improving very nicely. And unless So You Think really does like the dirt, I expect this will be a relatively slow (speed figure-wise) edition of the Classic.

[Spalding No!]

dude i'm not going to get in a pissing contest. I have much better things to do on a Wednesday night. i like game on dude to win the race and i'm going to wager accordingly.

Cool. Next time I point out a gross error in your analysis, feel free to simply thank me instead of telling me I'm being "silly" and not doing any "real handicapping". Who knows, it may save you some money.

[PaceAdvantage]

oh he'll run. it's a no lose situation for repole. he's already gotten paid via ashford. there i no downside to him running up the track besides him having a new lowest of lows Still can't admit you were wrong, can you? LOL You had him retired after his race two back, didn't you?

[Spalding No!]

Flat Out's JCGC was the co-second slowest (according to Beyer) in at least 20+ years and his best BSFs are at 9f. Pedigree-wise, Game On Dude (Awesome Again/Devil His Due) is better-bred for 10f than Flat Out (Flatter/Cresta Rider). OTOH, there's only one absolute 10f type in the field and he's likely on the wrong surface.

Well, the co-slowest JCGC was last year. Blame came out of the race and won the BC Classic. The Classic field this year is pretty motley. I bet most of the major races in the last couple of years have seen their slowest renewals. Except the Kelso.

As far as pedigree, both horses have over 10 career lifetime starts and are proven at the distance. Pedigree is virtually inconsequential at this point. I say that Flat Out rights higher because the form of the Lone Star Handicap and the likely pace scenario suggest he has the advantage over Game On Dude.

I didn't read it either, but Game On Dude has won three races this year by sitting just behind fast paces. I expect he will track Uncle Mo early (assuming Uncle Mo goes for the lead) and I expect Uncle Mo to fold relatively early as well.

That's certainly a possibility, but Game On Dude was in a pretty aggressive duel with Tres Borrachos in the Goodwood, as opposed to sitting just behind the pace. The fact that the race was a furlong shorter and Awesome Gem was getting to Game On Dude suggests the added distance will not be to his benefit if he goes at that breakneck pace again.

Since that race, much has been made of his "ability" to withstand fast paces, and that his best weapon is his speed. It is highly likely that Game On Dude is sent by his connections to the front end rather than settling off another horse. I think this spells disaster.

At this stage, I wouldn't be surprised by an upset winner like Ruler On Ice, for example, who seems to be improving very nicely. And unless So You Think really does like the dirt, I expect this will be a relatively slow (speed figure-wise) edition of the Classic.

I have the same general feeling, which is why I'm not bothered that Flat Out is slow relative to horses of previous seasons.

[Wiley]

Who knows..Maybe Pletcher really doesnt want to run him but is under pressure from Mike Repole!!
You might be right. Repole in public says it is Todd's call but who knows if that is really the case. I think it is fair to say that this is the way Repole wanted it to go regardless.

[toussaud]

Still can't admit you were wrong, can you? LOL You had him retired after his race two back, didn't you?
dude, what is wrong with you? seriously? i was not talking to you, i was not referencing you at all. I along with everyone else in this thread, or at least most of us think he's going to run up the track. you just can't leave well enough alone, you go around picking on poeple then when people say shit you don't like you delete their posts. mighty big of you


you and the little NY clique you guys have formed here not hat just deiced they are going to pick on everyone who says anything in the slightest negative about anything related to the NYRA, you guys just sit back and nit pick on people, can't even have a ****ing regular conversation about the freaking breeders cup with out you old bald misfits coming in and stinking up the joint with your rudeness and all the whole bit.


I don't give a shit if you or anyone else think i can or can't handicap. Hell when I am right, like i was about game on dude (at 14 to 1 thank you very much) or Wilburn, or harve de grace against the boys, or tackleberry, it's not like anyone is going to say "oh man good job toussaud", but you whiny sons of you know what's sit around like 80 year old vultures just waiting for somoene to "slip" so you can "get them

I don't' give a shit what you think i think about uncle mo or if you think i'm wrong or not.

So please, stop hi jacking my freaking posts with the drive bys. It's freaking breeders cup. I'm pretty thick skinned and usually I just let shit like this go by, but you defiantly caught me on the wrong night. You own the damn forum and you are the most childish dude here.


What's really sad, is i go out of my way not to talk trash or talk bad about anyone. I don't make snide remakrs, I don't crack on people here, I'm very very respectful or try to be. But you and others just figure "hey if you pick him enough he will eventually "crack" and we can "get rid of him".. you and your clique are freaking pitiful. I scare you because I have an opinion and I will tell you what my opinion is and I'm smart enough to articulate my opinion.

What ever happened to agree to disagree?

[toussaud]

Cool. Next time I point out a gross error in your analysis, feel free to simply thank me instead of telling me I'm being "silly" and not doing any "real handicapping". Who knows, it may save you some money.
you assume i actually gave you my analysis which I did not. I don't handicap on thees forums, I come to talk about horses.

[Spalding No!]

you assume i actually gave you my analysis which I did not. I don't handicap on thees forums, I come to talk about horses.

Whatever. Pedal backwards around it all you want. Your post was dead wrong. Game On Dude is not undefeated on fast tracks this year.

[toussaud]

Whatever. Pedal backwards around it all you want. Your post was dead wrong. Game On Dude is not undefeated on fast tracks this year.
lol i know i'm dead wrong. i never said i wasn't. i said it' snot worth arguing because ei'm going to pick him anyway. i like him.


You are assuming i am picking him because i said he was 3 for 3 on first dirt tracks and you'd be wrong assuming that. Just because i gave you a fact, doesn't mean i made my opinion based off that fact.


you have people picking one of the slowest belmont winners in years, people picking a horse that has never ran on dirt nor is bred to run on dirt, yet my picking a horse that has won 2 open class grade 1 handicap races, draws the ire of you and your "clique"

you can have this damn forum.

[PaceAdvantage]

dude, what is wrong with you? seriously? i was not talking to you, i was not referencing you at all. I along with everyone else in this thread, or at least most of us think he's going to run up the track. you just can't leave well enough alone, you go around picking on poeple then when people say shit you don't like you delete their posts. mighty big of you


you and the little NY clique you guys have formed here not hat just deiced they are going to pick on everyone who says anything in the slightest negative about anything related to the NYRA, you guys just sit back and nit pick on people, can't even have a ****ing regular conversation about the freaking breeders cup with out you old bald misfits coming in and stinking up the joint with your rudeness and all the whole bit.


I don't give a shit if you or anyone else think i can or can't handicap. Hell when I am right, like i was about game on dude (at 14 to 1 thank you very much) or Wilburn, or harve de grace against the boys, or tackleberry, it's not like anyone is going to say "oh man good job toussaud", but you whiny sons of you know what's sit around like 80 year old vultures just waiting for somoene to "slip" so you can "get them

I don't' give a shit what you think i think about uncle mo or if you think i'm wrong or not.

So please, stop hi jacking my freaking posts with the drive bys. It's freaking breeders cup. I'm pretty thick skinned and usually I just let shit like this go by, but you defiantly caught me on the wrong night. You own the damn forum and you are the most childish dude here.


What's really sad, is i go out of my way not to talk trash or talk bad about anyone. I don't make snide remakrs, I don't crack on people here, I'm very very respectful or try to be. But you and others just figure "hey if you pick him enough he will eventually "crack" and we can "get rid of him".. you and your clique are freaking pitiful. I scare you because I have an opinion and I will tell you what my opinion is and I'm smart enough to articulate my opinion.

What ever happened to agree to disagree? I would have deleted this reply of yours, but it's just too damn funny to let go so easily. You've been letting this build inside of you for quite some time...not healthy... :lol:

Who's opinion of Uncle Mo has been more correct this year? I took a bunch of shit for my opinion of Mo earlier this year and I didn't blame it on any nutty 'Clique' actively working against me. Do you think we hold secret meetings where we decide who to target next and how to covertly destroy them? TOO FUNNY!!!

I disagree that my rather innocent reply to you deserved this kind of bile, vitriol, and downright nastiness that you just spewed forth.

The fact is that you disagreed with my prediction months ago that Mo could be in line for year-end honors, and yet here we are with Mo as the ML favorite in the BC Classic.

Instead of congratulating me on my awesome powers of prediction and admitting your opinion of Mo has been wrong all year long, like a normal person would, instead, we get this nutty rant.

GFY

[ManU918]

Mo is a good horse but 5/2 is an absolute joke. The toughest horse Mo has beat in his career is Jackson Bend, who is best at 6 or 7 furlongs. That's not saying much for a horse who is now trying to stretch it out to 1 1/4 against way tougher company. People can say what they want about the 2010 BC Juvenile but that was against a bunch of horrible horses. The only horse in that race who has done anything since is Stay Thirsty. Repole should have placed Mo in the Mile.

[Tom]

So PA, when did you go bald? :eek:

[FenceBored]

So PA, when did you go bald? :eek:

Only his hairdresser knows for sure (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCrEyOWAEVw). ;)

[FenceBored]

Only his hairdresser knows for sure (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCrEyOWAEVw). ;)

Crickets.

Ok, how about this one: He confused PA with the guy who runs ToupeesAdvantage.com ["I'm not just the siteowner, I'm a poster."].

[Robert Fischer]

UNCLE MO APPARENTLY WILL NOT TALK TO THE PRESS NOW

[Shelby]

Just got this tweet:


NTRA (http://twitter.com/#%21/NTRA) NTRA



Repole: "I think @UncleMoHorse (http://twitter.com/#%21/UncleMoHorse) could beat Frankel at a mile."

[cj]

Just got this tweet:


NTRA (http://twitter.com/#%21/NTRA) NTRA



Repole: "I think @UncleMoHorse (http://twitter.com/#%21/UncleMoHorse) could beat Frankel at a mile."

Pretty stupid tweet since they run on different surfaces.

[Shelby]

Pretty stupid tweet since they run on different surfaces.


Yup.

[precocity]

mark my words!!!!!


RULER ON ICE---------------$$$$$$$$$$$$$ :cool:

[Tom]

Looking at him...I think the pace melts down and then it is survival of the fittest.

[Valuist]

I would have deleted this reply of yours, but it's just too damn funny to let go so easily. You've been letting this build inside of you for quite some time...not healthy... :lol:

Who's opinion of Uncle Mo has been more correct this year? I took a bunch of shit for my opinion of Mo earlier this year and I didn't blame it on any nutty 'Clique' actively working against me. Do you think we hold secret meetings where we decide who to target next and how to covertly destroy them? TOO FUNNY!!!

I disagree that my rather innocent reply to you deserved this kind of bile, vitriol, and downright nastiness that you just spewed forth.

The fact is that you disagreed with my prediction months ago that Mo could be in line for year-end honors, and yet here we are with Mo as the ML favorite in the BC Classic.

Instead of congratulating me on my awesome powers of prediction and admitting your opinion of Mo has been wrong all year long, like a normal person would, instead, we get this nutty rant.

GFY

If Uncle Mo won the Classic by 10 lengths, he still wouldn't deserve Horse of the Year. He's a fraud, and will be further exposed this Saturday.

[PaceAdvantage]

If Uncle Mo won the Classic by 10 lengths, he still wouldn't deserve Horse of the Year. He's a fraud, and will be further exposed this Saturday.Makes sense to me.... :rolleyes:

But just to humor you a bit...how do you figure that scenario? Who should be HOTY under your example?

[PhantomOnTour]

Makes sense to me.... :rolleyes:

But just to humor you a bit...how do you figure that scenario? Who should be HOTY under your example?
If Goldikova wins they'll probably give it to her as a lifetime achievement award...just like they did for Zenyatta. :D

[Valuist]

Makes sense to me.... :rolleyes:

But just to humor you a bit...how do you figure that scenario? Who should be HOTY under your example?

Havre De Grace or Flat Out have both accomplished more. Add in Royal Delta or Plum Pretty, especially if one of those wins the Distaff, or whatever they call it now. And the sentimentalists will want to give it to Goldikova if she wins. Lets not forget Animal Kingdom; he certainly has had a better year than Uncle Mo, even though it was shortened. Same for the Tiznow colt who won the Met Mile and Whitney. That last race of Uncle Mo's was a total joke. 3 opponents w/basically no speed over a sloppy track. IMO, his only impressive race was the King's Bishop, and he didn't even win that race.

[cj]

Havre De Grace or Flat Out have both accomplished more. Add in Royal Delta or Plum Pretty, especially if one of those wins the Distaff, or whatever they call it now. And the sentimentalists will want to give it to Goldikova if she wins. Lets not forget Animal Kingdom; he certainly has had a better year than Uncle Mo, even though it was shortened. Same for the Tiznow colt who won the Met Mile and Whitney. That last race of Uncle Mo's was a total joke. 3 opponents w/basically no speed over a sloppy track. IMO, his only impressive race was the King's Bishop, and he didn't even win that race.

I tend to agree. Just as I said him alone winning the race is not good for the sport, I think winning and being named HOY is even worse. Are we rewarding one race campaigns now?

[Valuist]

I tend to agree. Just as I said him alone winning the race is not good for the sport, I think winning and being named HOY is even worse. Are we rewarding one race campaigns now?

That seems to be the thinking. Just look back to last year. We all know Blame had a better resume than Zenyatta.

I can see Flat Out winning the Classic but getting passed over for Horse of the Year. I don't think that will happen if Havre de Grace wins the Classic.

[TommyCh]

Seems like Battaglia might have done his job with all the debate. So he falls firmly in the "this is where he will go off at" camp. Tags isn't so stupid to think that Mo is the best horse, is he? Think of the Brooklyn Wiseguy Don't Get No Respect features we'll see on TV and Mo will go at a low price, civilian money. The Juvenile is a rather inconsequential race in the grand scheme of things and Repole is playing that grand old American game of hype, quite well. Repole probably thinks Mo would have won at least two legs of the Triple Crown and then added some summer bling to his record. Just because he didn't, getouttahere! Mo's the best because little Mike says he is, capeesh? Mo? No.

[MadWorld]

Makes sense to me.... :rolleyes:

But just to humor you a bit...how do you figure that scenario? Who should be HOTY under your example?

Since Uncle Mo has only won one G2 this year and an ungraded 3 yr old race, is this an argument that whoever wins the Classic should be HoTY?

[mostpost]

There is an awful lot of anger against Uncle Mo here. It's as if he slept with some ones wife. :rolleyes:

I am amazed by the certitude of Valuist and Toussad. They absolutely know that Uncle Mo can not get a mile and a quarter; even though he has never been asked to do so. Even though his pedigree includes such horses as Kris S, Roberto, Alydar, Nashua, Princequillo, Neartic, Nearco, Northern Dancer. Dixieland Band his dam grandsire is also the dam grandsire of 2001 Derby winner Monarchos.

They say Indian Charlie, Uncle Mo's sire failed the only time he was asked to go a mile and a quarter. He failed by only two lengths and that does not mean he would not have won on another day. Dozens of horses have failed to win the Derby, then gone on to win many distance races. Alydar, Nashua, Forego, to name just a few.

[mostpost]

If Uncle Mo won the Classic by 10 lengths, he still wouldn't deserve Horse of the Year. He's a fraud, and will be further exposed this Saturday.

How is he a fraud? You understand that this is a horse. He's not capable of deception. I have the feeling you lost some bets on him or because of him.

[mostpost]

Havre De Grace or Flat Out have both accomplished more. Add in Royal Delta or Plum Pretty, especially if one of those wins the Distaff, or whatever they call it now. And the sentimentalists will want to give it to Goldikova if she wins. Lets not forget Animal Kingdom; he certainly has had a better year than Uncle Mo, even though it was shortened. Same for the Tiznow colt who won the Met Mile and Whitney. That last race of Uncle Mo's was a total joke. 3 opponents w/basically no speed over a sloppy track. IMO, his only impressive race was the King's Bishop, and he didn't even win that race.
Royal Delta and Plum Pretty are three year old fillies who have never raced against colts and have never beaten older fillies. They are not even contenders for Horse of the Year.
Goldikova ia a great horse, but the award is for American Horse of the Year, Also she is a miler who races primarily on turf. She does not fit the profile.
Animal Kingdom did one thing. He won the Kentucky Derby. He could not best Shackleford in the Preakness and he finished sixth in the Belmont. A badly beaten sixth.

That leaves three, all running in the Classic. Havre de Grace, Flat Out and Uncle MO. Flat Out has a good record lately having won a Grade one and having place second in two others, but he lost to Havre de Grace in one of those two.

Havre de Grace has won five of six this year. She has won three Grade ones and she has beaten males. A win in the Classic would make her the top contender for Horse of the Year.

Why should Uncle Mo be named Horse of the Year? Obviously, if he doesn't win the Classic, he should not. But saying he shouldn't be given consideration even if he wins it by ten lengths is not rational.

If Uncle Mo wins the Classic, he will have proven he can race and win at a mile and a quarter. If he wins the Classic, he will have beaten all the legitimate contenders for Horse of the Year. If he wins the Classic, he will have beaten older horses. WHEN he wins the Classic he will have beaten horse who have won or placed second twenty five times in Grade or Group One races. That is why Uncle M0 should be named Horse of the Year.

[cj]

Royal Delta and Plum Pretty are three year old fillies who have never raced against colts and have never beaten older fillies. They are not even contenders for Horse of the Year.
Goldikova ia a great horse, but the award is for American Horse of the Year, Also she is a miler who races primarily on turf. She does not fit the profile.
Animal Kingdom did one thing. He won the Kentucky Derby. He could not best Shackleford in the Preakness and he finished sixth in the Belmont. A badly beaten sixth.

That leaves three, all running in the Classic. Havre de Grace, Flat Out and Uncle MO. Flat Out has a good record lately having won a Grade one and having place second in two others, but he lost to Havre de Grace in one of those two.

Havre de Grace has won five of six this year. She has won three Grade ones and she has beaten males. A win in the Classic would make her the top contender for Horse of the Year.

Why should Uncle Mo be named Horse of the Year? Obviously, if he doesn't win the Classic, he should not. But saying he shouldn't be given consideration even if he wins it by ten lengths is not rational.

If Uncle Mo wins the Classic, he will have proven he can race and win at a mile and a quarter. If he wins the Classic, he will have beaten all the legitimate contenders for Horse of the Year. If he wins the Classic, he will have beaten older horses. WHEN he wins the Classic he will have beaten horse who have won or placed second twenty five times in Grade or Group One races. That is why Uncle M0 should be named Horse of the Year.

It is a sad day for the sport if a horse that wins a single G1 all year could be Horse of the Year. Given the credentials of all the horse, Havre de Grace should already have it in the bag.

[mostpost]

It is a sad day for the sport if a horse that wins a single G1 all year could be Horse of the Year. Given the credentials of all the horse, Havre de Grace should already have it in the bag.
I would not object to Havre de Grace winning Horse of the Year, even if Uncle Mo wins the Classic. It's not the way I would vote, but I can see the rationale for voting that way.

[cj]

I would not object to Havre de Grace winning Horse of the Year, even if Uncle Mo wins the Classic. It's not the way I would vote, but I can see the rationale for voting that way.

I'd like to hear the rational for Uncle Mo. He would have no better credentials than Volponi or Arcangues had, probably less.

He won a nothing stake at GP, ran a good second in a G1 sprint, and won a nothing G2 in a race with no history on that surface. I don't care if he sprouts wings and flies home in 1:00 flat for 10f, he isn't the horse of the YEAR...he has had no year.

[tbwinner]

I'd like to hear the rational for Uncle Mo. He would have no better credentials than Volponi or Arcangues had, probably less.

He won a nothing stake at GP, ran a good second in a G1 sprint, and won a nothing G2 in a race with no history on that surface. I don't care if he sprouts wings and flies home in 1:00 flat for 10f, he isn't the horse of the YEAR...he has had no year.

I agree with you 100%. Why is the BC Classic the deciding point for Horse of the Year? Isn't it supposed to be for the horse with the greatest, best campaign THROUGHOUT THE YEAR? What has he accomplished this year? And I mean on the racetrack, I don't want to hear "oh he came back from a life-threatening illness."

[PaceAdvantage]

In a year like we've had this year, I really can't see how anyone can defend the motion that Mo doesn't deserve serious consideration should he win, limited campaign or not.

[classhandicapper]

IMO, HDG's is HOTY unless Flat Out wins tomorrow or she is really bad and someone else with a decent record does something special. It's kind of hard to come up with a campaign that will look better than hers.

[cj]

In a year like we've had this year, I really can't see how anyone can defend the motion that Mo doesn't deserve serious consideration should he win, limited campaign or not.

Because he hasn't won anything else. Nobody considered Volponi or Arcangues or Wild Again or even Raven's Pass. There is no way I would ever give serious consideration to a horse that wins one race of consequence all year long. Hell, he couldn't even win the Wood and didn't win any of the 3yo PREPS.

Anyway, that is a wasted post. He won't win.

[PaceAdvantage]

Because he hasn't won anything else. Nobody considered Volponi or Arcangues or Wild Again or even Raven's Pass. There is no way I would ever give serious consideration to a horse that wins one race of consequence all year long. Hell, he couldn't even win the Wood and didn't win any of the 3yo PREPS.

Anyway, that is a wasted post. He won't win.We're dealing in a hypothetical here if you recall. The man said Mo can win the BC Classic by 10 lengths and still be called a fraud and a non-contender for HOTY...I say hogwash.

If Havre de Grace gets whomped by 10 lengths by Mo you're telling me she still deserves HOTY? And if not her, who then? This isn't exactly a stellar year as far as major players goes...

And I never said Uncle Mo is going to win the BC Classic. Let's get that out of the way too...

[cj]

We're dealing in a hypothetical here if you recall. The man said Mo can win the BC Classic by 10 lengths and still be called a fraud and a non-contender for HOTY...I say hogwash.

If Havre de Grace gets whomped by 10 lengths by Mo you're telling me she still deserves HOTY? And if not her, who then? This isn't exactly a stellar year as far as major players goes...

And I never said Uncle Mo is going to win the BC Classic. Let's get that out of the way too...

Yes, I would still give it to her. If she gets beat easily it is not a reflection of her true ability. She has shown that much already. It is a weak year no doubt, but I don't ever think a year is so weak that a horse with a resume like Uncle No should be HOY. just my two cents...

[Tom]

If nothing else, Flat Out gets my vote for at least showing up and dancing every dance.

So far he is Horse of the YEAR.

Nothing Mo can do makes him a contender, not even if he sprouts wings.:faint:
HDG with a win cinches it.

After those two, might as well give to Zenny again for getting in foal.:D

[classhandicapper]

If Havre de Grace gets whomped by 10 lengths by Mo you're telling me she still deserves HOTY? And if not her, who then? This isn't exactly a stellar year as far as major players goes...



This gets into the type of discussions we've had in the past.

There is no clear cut definition of HOTY.

Should it be the best horse, the most accomplished horse in terms of graded stakes races, should we use peak or sustained form, should performances on other surfaces count, should speed figures count, and if so, whose figures because they often don't agree, should subjective trips count, should impact on the sport count, should we weigh races restricted to fillies and mares less than open races etc....

Everyone is going to value things differently.

To me it should be accomplishments in terms of graded stakes over the course of the entire season, but when it's close many of those other factors can be used as a tiebreaker. That doesn't mean I'm right though.

I couldn't give HOTY to MO under almost any circumstances. Though if he won the Classic solidly I would conclude that he was the best horse.

[Tom]

Mo runs a 118 Beyer and the second coming of Big Red.....sound familiar?
Been there, done that one before.

I give Mo a FAT chance! :lol:

[overthehill]

I would find it difficult to give HTG horse of the year when i think blind luck is the better older filly. but i dont think HTG is going to win this race anyway.
I think both Flat Out and the European/NZ will be too tough.

[iceknight]

There is an awful lot of anger against Uncle Mo here. It's as if he slept with some ones wife. :rolleyes:


Well, but he might try to sleep with Havre De Grace?

[wisconsin]

Well, but he might try to sleep with Havre De Grace?


Mo De Grace

[Tom]

Havre de Mo

[jdhanover]

Havre Mo Grace would be the offspring's name

[Valuist]

How is he a fraud? You understand that this is a horse. He's not capable of deception. I have the feeling you lost some bets on him or because of him.

I wanted to bet against him in the Derby but he ended up scratching.

Ok, his RECORD and reputation are fraudulent due to repeatedly racing under optimal circumstances. If the only objective was to run a big number against a small field w/little other early speed in the mud at one mile, then yes, he probably would be the best.

[classhandicapper]

Well, but he might try to sleep with Havre De Grace?

I'm going to tell you guys a funny story.

I was in the saddling area at Belmont the day of their last race. There was a point when they were both in the saddling area at the same time. Mo was in the walking ring and HDG was just coming into the area. HDG walked past Mo. He quickly turned his head to check her out just like any guy would when he saw a hot woman and wanted to see her ass. It wasn't just a coincidental turn either. He was clearly checking her out, following her butt and staring. I was cracking up and my girlfriend was like "You are all the same". :lol:

[cj]

I believe he just finished.

[speed]

I'm going to tell you guys a funny story.

I was in the saddling area at Belmont the day of their last race. There was a point when they were both in the saddling area at the same time. Mo was in the walking ring and HDG was just coming into the area. HDG walked past Mo. He quickly turned his head to check her out just like any guy would when he saw a hot woman and wanted to see her ass. It wasn't just a coincidental turn either. He was clearly checking her out, following her butt and staring. I was cracking up and my girlfriend was like "You are all the same". :lol:
Now tell the truth.
You did the exact same head turn. :)

[Bullet Plane]

Looks like Beyer was spot on.

[cj]

Looks like Beyer was spot on.

Maybe they thought he was ready because they were comparing him to Stay Thirsty!

[Fingal]

Looks like Beyer was spot on.

Maybe-

But for the way Beyer put it that he didn't like Mo, don't think he's on Pletcher's Christmas Card list any more.

[duncan04]

Mo should of ran in the mile if anything

[precocity]

mark my words!!!!!


RULER ON ICE---------------$$$$$$$$$$$$$ :cool:
RD BORDING ALERT!!!!!!!!!




HAD EVERYTHING :cool: :cool: :cool:

[RXB]

I don't like him either but with all the sharp people making comments here against Mo how can he possibly go off shorter than 5/1? Not buying the weekend warrior argument the "against" wagering on this race will drown their opinion.

Maybe I'm wrong but 5/1 is about the right price with so many not so"frequent" customers wagering Saturday.

You were right. I thought more silly money would flow onto him but maybe there's only a sucker born every two minutes these days.

[papillon]

Mo should of ran in the mile if anything

agreed, but mo still would have lost and shack would have put him away just like he did the factor (and just like GOD did mo). closers and off the pacers are the ones who beat shack, not the other speed

shack has trouble finishing first but he has no trouble at all putting away the other speed...it is really too bad he didn't get the chance to put away mo, it may have improved his image in the racing punditry's eyes, given their unhealthy infatuation with mo

cj--from my vantage point, shack looked closer to the rail than GOD, but not as close as hansen, but i'm not using that as an excuse, but i do think it was the most tiring part of the track. several jockeys commented on it all day--they described it as peanut-butter like.

anywho, i'm looking forward to seeing shack again in person next spring, and hopefully GP's speed loving track will help him out a bit and get him back in the winner's circle. i'm not sure i've ever loved a horse as much as i love shack--i can't even explain why, except that there's just something really endearing about how he always tries and always comes close...i don't know how to explain it...

[BlueShoe]

shack has trouble finishing first but he has no trouble at all putting away the other speed.... i'm not sure i've ever loved a horse as much as i love shack--i can't even explain why, except that there's just something really endearing about how he always tries and always comes close...i don't know how to explain it...
Have an opinion that if Shack were to focus on sprinting, 7 furlongs at most, better still at 6 or 6 1/2, he would be very, very tough. During his career he has run with and cracked some very fast horses such as Flashpoint and The Factor, and still gone on after putting them away.

[cj]

Have an opinion that if Shack were to focus on sprinting, 7 furlongs at most, better still at 6 or 6 1/2, he would be very, very tough. During his career he has run with and cracked some very fast horses such as Flashpoint and The Factor, and still gone on after putting them away.

Sure, he would be tough, but he WON THE PREAKNESS! He can make more money routing than sprinting if he has half the success doing the former, and have a lot more value as a sire as well.

[RXB]

Have an opinion that if Shack were to focus on sprinting, 7 furlongs at most, better still at 6 or 6 1/2, he would be very, very tough. During his career he has run with and cracked some very fast horses such as Flashpoint and The Factor, and still gone on after putting them away.

True, but cracking them in a route-paced race is different than cracking them in a sprint-paced race. I think they entered Shackleford at the correct distance.

[RXB]

True, but cracking them in a route-paced race is different than cracking them in a sprint-paced race. I think they entered Shackleford at the correct distance.

BTW, the mile is the distance at which Uncle Mo should've been entered, too. But I guess when the owner can mislead himself to believe that Uncle Mo is superior to Frankel, obviously the horse's capabilities aren't being judged accurately and therefore the chances of entering into an unsuitable condition are substantial.

[PaceAdvantage]

BTW, the mile is the distance at which Uncle Mo should've been entered, too. But I guess when the owner can mislead himself to believe that Uncle Mo is superior to Frankel, obviously the horse's capabilities aren't being judged accurately and therefore the chances of entering into an unsuitable condition are substantial.Or maybe the horse's capabilities have never been allowed to shine through due to illness, poor management, etc.

I still believe there is a superstar in there somewhere...he may be the unluckiest, most poorly managed horse of recent memory...

[netbet]

I'd love to know if Pletcher really wanted to run this horse. I have a feeling as long as Mo could walk....Repole was running this horse. Feel bad for Uncle Mo and all of the other horses in that stable.

I won't play another Repole owned horse....