Let's Look at Mitt [Archive] - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

boxcar

10-13-2011, 01:19 PM

I post this for the crowd who has the "Anything but Obama" mentality -- the same anti-incumbent mentality that largely accounted for the results of the '08 election.

Bernhardt sheds quite a bit of light on just who this Romney guy is. She looks deeper into his career and into his character than just his signature legislation of RomneyCare. Bottom line: Romney is the quintessential RINO, which accounts for why he's the MM's number one Republican darling -- just as McCain was in '08.

While I agree with what she says, I wish she would have said it differently and drop the unlady-like foul language, but she is what she is, I guess.

Not surprisingly, as a liberal Republican, Romney appears to be a man of few or no principles. His personal stand on homosexuality and gay marriage is diametrically opposed to the theology of his own church. It appears that he's very willing to sacrifice the beliefs of his own faith on the Altar of Political Expediency when it serves his purposes. Apparently, his faith is only skin deep and has never penetrated into his soul.

He's also a believer in AGW. He would do nothing to get rid of or even greatly curtail the powers of the EPA.

It appears he would also support amnesty for illegals down the road.

When it comes down to brass tacks, it doesn't appear he's that much different from the Marxist we already have in the WH. I predict that if this guy gets the nomination (God forbid!) and he actually wins the presidency, many will likewise be suffering buyers' remorse, as have so many Obama supporters.

Boxcar

Gk8O3EPOtT4

GameTheory

10-13-2011, 01:28 PM

It appears that he's very willing to sacrifice the beliefs of his own faith on the Altar of Political Expediency when it serves his purposes. Apparently, his faith is only skin deep and has never penetrated into his soul.

He's also a believer in AGW. He would do nothing to get rid of or even greatly curtail the powers of the EPA.

It appears he would also support amnesty for illegals down the road.
If point A (Alter of Political Expediency) is true, than you can't really make any definitive statements about what he will or won't support. He'll bow to political pressure. And in the absence of a true believer that will stick to his guns AND happens to agree with me on most everything, that is actually the best I can hope for in a President. A true believer that disagrees with me on everything is the last thing I want...

jognlope

10-13-2011, 01:37 PM

He's also snotty, says stuff about Obama likes "means well, just not up to the job." I like Jon Huntsman, but he makes too much sense and is too well mannered to be popular.

GaryG

10-13-2011, 01:44 PM

And in the absence of a true believer that will stick to his guns AND happens to agree with me on most everything, that is actually the best I can hope for in a President. A true believer that disagrees with me on everything is the last thing I want...That true believer that agrees with me pretty much right down the line (from what I have seen so far) is Herman Cain. He is a true conservative with good character. He is even a Baptist.

ArlJim78

10-13-2011, 01:49 PM

he would be better than Obama on competence, style, maturity, leadership, certainly their wouldn't be any grand apology tours or anything like the Obama cult.

but Boxcar is right, the nuts and bolts of the agenda are mostly the same. I can't support him.

boxcar

10-13-2011, 01:53 PM

If point A (Alter of Political Expediency) is true, than you can't really make any definitive statements about what he will or won't support. He'll bow to political pressure. And in the absence of a true believer that will stick to his guns AND happens to agree with me on most everything, that is actually the best I can hope for in a President. A true believer that disagrees with me on everything is the last thing I want...

Yeah, I can. Look at his record. It speaks for itself. A liberal is a liberal is a liberal. Romney is being marketed as a "conservative" by his party to woo conservative voters. But a guy will always gravitate first and foremost toward his innermost core values or belief, which very often is concealed from the electorate. This doesn't mean that he'll always get to do what he wants, but achieving his personal agenda will be his primary goal.

So, since Romney has a marked liberal bent, what would make any critical thinker believe that he won't constantly want to be moving in the direction of that bias in order to accomplish his liberal agenda? There is one fundamental aspect about human nature that you seem to be missing, GT. It is this: Every human being earnestly and perpetually desires his own happiness. You can take this statement to the bank. Therefore, every one us will do all in our power to make ourselves happy -- to relentlessly pursue our own happiness -- and this desire for happiness extends to all aspects of our life -- personal, professional, political,, etc. Every area. Therefore, none of us naturally will want to go against this inherent, perpetual desire, unless we are forced to do so.

Moreover, there is the character issue once again. I just heard a little while ago on El Rushbo an audio of a former Romney adviser who worked closely with the Mitt on putting together RomneyCare. The gist of what the guy said is very revealing. He basically said that ObmaCare is a carbon copy of RomenyCare. However, in the recent debate, Mitt denied this and essentially said at one point that if Obama had consulted with him, he would have told the president why ObamaCare won't work. Really? RomneyCare was the blueprint for ObamaCare, but now Mitt is going to defend his own state plan, while simultaneously criticizing the carbon copy? :bang: :bang:

Character still matters to some of us.

Boxcar

elysiantraveller

10-13-2011, 01:54 PM

He's also snotty, says stuff about Obama likes "means well, just not up to the job." I like Jon Huntsman, but he makes too much sense and is too well mannered to be popular.

I agree on Huntsman...

The party leaning towards Cain doesn't bode well. Its a good thing we still have a few months...

JustRalph

10-13-2011, 01:57 PM

That true believer that agrees with me pretty much right down the line (from what I have seen so far) is Herman Cain. He is a true conservative with good character. He is even a Baptist.

An associate minister in the church he has been a member since 10 hrs of age

Btw, he was a ballistic rocket scientist too.......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_Cain

JustRalph

10-13-2011, 02:26 PM

10 years of Age.......... gotta love the Ipad spell checker....... :lol:

boxcar

10-13-2011, 02:30 PM

An associate minister in the church he has been a member since 10 hrs of age

Btw, he was a ballistic rocket scientist too.......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_Cain

Many links to his church's site don't work, so I couldn't get a detailed Statement of Faith from that site. (I might check into this more later.) But from the gospel message that is clearly presented on the site, it would appear his church is Evangelical in nature. If so, and Cain wins the nomination, just watch the attacks that will ensue on his faith and his church -- even though Obama has also professed to be a Christian.

Boxcar

Sugar Ron

10-13-2011, 03:01 PM

This is GREAT. < insert big toothy-grin smiley dude >

GameTheory

10-13-2011, 03:12 PM

Yeah, I can. Look at his record. It speaks for itself. A liberal is a liberal is a liberal. Romney is being marketed as a "conservative" by his party to woo conservative voters. But a guy will always gravitate first and foremost toward his innermost core values or belief, which very often is concealed from the electorate. This doesn't mean that he'll always get to do what he wants, but achieving his personal agenda will be his primary goal.Well, is he truly a liberal or just a politician that cut his teeth in a liberal state? (His record could be the same in either case.) If he had been governor of Utah instead would he have fought for the same (so-called liberal) stuff? He can't be a die-hard liberal and be willing to go wherever the winds blow simultaneously...

boxcar

10-13-2011, 05:00 PM

Well, is he truly a liberal or just a politician that cut his teeth in a liberal state? (His record could be the same in either case.) If he had been governor of Utah instead would he have fought for the same (so-called liberal) stuff? He can't be a die-hard liberal and be willing to go wherever the winds blow simultaneously...

Of course, he can. It's obvious what his leanings are. He certainly has no solid conservative record on which to fall back. Liberalsim is what makes him HAPPY!

And where he cut his teeth would not matter to any person of principle. A person of principle will stand by them, regardless of pressure or which way the political winds are blowing. He certainly hasn't done that with respect to his faith. This tells me his faith is of secondary importance in his life.

Jesus taught that where a man's treasure is, there also will be his heart. Romney's heart, obviously, is in his political career. He's no different than the vast majority of politicians in office. He'll do whatever it takes to advance that career. This is not the mark of a principled person. Principled people don't run from their core principles when the going gets tough. Instead, they stand by them.

And his heart is so bound up with his political ambitions that he misled his audience in the last debate about ObamaCare, trying to get his listeners to believe that is was fundamentally different from his own RomneyCare -- when it really isn't. So, now we should believe him when he says he would work to repeal the "carbon copy" of his own state plan? Or was he just tossing out sound bytes that he thought would tickle the ears of conservatives?

Since this Mormon has proven he has no qualms about abandoning important principles of his own faith, then would he have any problems in lying his way to the WH? As Jesus also said, "the lamp of the body is the eye, and if the eye is bad, then the whole body will be full of darkness....and how great that darkness will be" (Mat 6:22,23)!

Boxcar

GameTheory

10-13-2011, 06:41 PM

Of course, he can. It's obvious what his leanings are. He certainly has no solid conservative record on which to fall back. Liberalsim is what makes him HAPPY! Ok, so then he's a liberal according to you. Fine! That means that if every person in the country takes a hard turn to the right, Mitt will stick to his guns and still be push a liberal agenda, polls be damned! That *is* a person a principle, just liberal principles!

He can't have flexible and inflexible principles (not the same ones, anyway) at the same time. Those two things are mutually exclusive, and I'm just pointing out your logical inconsistency, not trying to convince you Mitt is one way or the other.

boxcar

10-13-2011, 06:55 PM

Ok, so then he's a liberal according to you. Fine! That means that if every person in the country takes a hard turn to the right, Mitt will stick to his guns and still be push a liberal agenda, polls be damned! That *is* a person a principle, just liberal principles!

You are full of hypotheticals, I give you that. "If every person in the country..."? Seriously? You're gong to use that kind of unrealistic hyperbole in your argument? When has everyone in this country ever made a "hard right turn"?

He is not a principled person. I have given a couple of examples of that already. He, like most pols, will say what people want to hear, but he will certainly try to do what will make himself happy. It's human nature.

This guy isn't even a good Mormon; for he has abandoned important principles of his faith to advance his political career. When he joined the Mormon church, he had to state that he agreed with their major doctrines, unless this has changed over the years.

He can't have flexible and inflexible principles (not the same ones, anyway) at the same time. Those two things are mutually exclusive, and I'm just pointing out your logical inconsistency, not trying to convince you Mitt is one way or the other.

There's no logical inconsistency once a person is caught in lies and hypocrisy. Mitt will remain true and committed to the things he treasures in his heart the most. Conservative values aren't among those things. Therefore, he will do whatever it takes to win conservative votes because of the "R" after his name. But once the votes are won, he'll certainly attempt to do what he wants, and thinks he can get away with politically.

Boxcar

GameTheory

10-13-2011, 07:00 PM

I don't care about Mitt, just pointing out how you are contradicting yourself. But you are getting as bad as ziggy -- don't read what others write, and just rant.

Robert Goren

10-13-2011, 07:12 PM

The fact that Romney is considered a "liberal republican" goes to show out of touch the GOP is these days.

bigmack

10-13-2011, 07:34 PM

The fact that Romney is considered a "liberal republican" goes to show out of touch the GOP is these days.
Because I yearn to know more of what you speak of, could you elaborate on your point? How does it show anyone out of touch?

ArlJim78

10-13-2011, 07:51 PM

The fact that Romney is considered a "liberal republican" goes to show out of touch the GOP is these days.
maybe to make your point you could offer up the major policy differences between Romney and Obama. what are they?

boxcar

10-13-2011, 08:13 PM

I don't care about Mitt, just pointing out how you are contradicting yourself. But you are getting as bad as ziggy -- don't read what others write, and just rant.

I have not contradicted myself. You are mistaken. He will bend anyway the wind blows simply by saying what people want to hear to garner voting support, and then doing what he wants afterward, if he thinks he can get away with it politically. He's the contradiction because he's a liar and hypocrite.

Boxcar

boxcar

10-13-2011, 08:16 PM

maybe to make your point you could offer up the major policy differences between Romney and Obama. what are they?

Good point. Maybe Goren will start with abortion? Or how about AGW? Or how 'bout socialized medicine? Or gay marriage? Illegal immigration? Wow! Look at all those fundamental differences between Romney and other progressives. :rolleyes:

Boxcar

cj's dad

10-13-2011, 09:05 PM

Anyone But Obama

Rookies

10-13-2011, 09:17 PM

Anyone But Obama

There ya go... a mountain of Con grumbling, but NONE of you will stay at homey. You'll all be voting for Romney.:lol:

boxcar

10-13-2011, 11:16 PM

There ya go... a mountain of Con grumbling, but NONE of you will stay at homey. You'll all be voting for Romney.:lol:

You couldn't be more wrong. If the best the people of this country can do is put up Socialist X from one party and Socialist Y from the other, then who am I to argue with the conventional wisdom or swim against the tide? Let them vote for the brand of evil they want, but I won't. Maybe the country will luck out again by keeping itself on the Fast Track to socialism by reelecting Obama. And I'm not alone in my sentiments. I know quite a few people on and offline who feel pretty much the same way. This election must turn around, for it is already the 11th hour. But if there's no candidate running to change the course of this nation, then so be it. Full steam ahead to this country's destiny. May the sovereign God above give this country double what it wants.

Boxcar

newtothegame

10-13-2011, 11:48 PM

bigmack

10-14-2011, 12:00 AM

Good point. Maybe Goren will start with abortion? Or how about AGW?
Are you unclear about his views or do you have recent evidence of his views on these two issues not being in line with your/conservative thought?

fast4522

10-14-2011, 12:01 AM

Let's Look at Mitt?, I would rather not thank you very much. I have already said I would vote for who ever the Republican nominee turns out to be. Everyone got a agenda or something for sale anyway. I might post a tad less in the off topic during the next year and play just a tad more racing. So lets not look at Mitt and check out these two for humor of the day.

boxcar

10-14-2011, 12:37 AM

Are you unclear about his views or do you have recent evidence of his views on these two issues not being in line with your/conservative thought?

He definitely is a believer in AGW. (This came up in one of the debates.) And I think he's pro-abortion, too -- but I would have to check that out to be sure. In fact, I just did this very thing, and now that I have, my memory is refreshed.

Romney flipped flopped on abortion, according to this one story.

GovWatch: 2002: “preserve & protect” right to choose
Top Romney Flip Flops: #1. Abortion:

In October 2002, campaigning for governorship of Massachusetts, Mitt Romney said he would “preserve and protect” a woman’s right to choose. He now describes himself as opposing abortion.
Source: GovWatch on 2008 campaign: “Top Ten Flip-Flops” Feb 5, 2008

Supreme Court had said feds should stay out of abortion
Q: Why such a dramatic and profound change after pledging never to waiver on a woman’s right to choose?

A: I was always personally opposed to abortion, as I think almost everyone in this nation is. And the question for me was, what is the role of government? And it was quite theoretical and philosophical to consider what the role of government should be in this regard, and I felt that the Supreme Court had spoken and that government shouldn’t be involved and let people make their own decision. That all made a lot of sense to me. Then I became governor and the theoretical became reality. A bill came to my desk which related to the preservation of life. I recognized that I simply could not be part of an effort that would cause the destruction of human lift. And I didn’t hide from that change of heart. I recognize it’s a change. Every piece of legislation which came to my desk in the coming years as the governor, I came down on the side of preserving the sanctity of life.

http://www.ontheissues.org/governor/Mitt_Romney_Abortion.htm

While Romney claims to have had a true change of heart and has always come down on the side of pro-life, since his "repentance", nonetheless there are those who would disagree with that. Even RomneyCare has provisions in it covering abortions.

So, my gut feeling is that Romney, being the RINO he is, is still an untrustworthy flip-flopper. Unprincipled people tend to be that.

http://prolifeprofiles.com/romney

Boxcar

newtothegame

10-14-2011, 12:47 AM

He definitely is a believer in AGW. (This came up in one of the debates.) And I think he's pro-abortion, too -- but I would have to check that out to be sure. In fact, I just did this very thing, and now that I have, my memory is refreshed.

Romney flipped flopped on abortion, according to this one story.

GovWatch: 2002: “preserve & protect” right to choose
Top Romney Flip Flops: #1. Abortion:

In October 2002, campaigning for governorship of Massachusetts, Mitt Romney said he would “preserve and protect” a woman’s right to choose. He now describes himself as opposing abortion.
Source: GovWatch on 2008 campaign: “Top Ten Flip-Flops” Feb 5, 2008

Supreme Court had said feds should stay out of abortion
Q: Why such a dramatic and profound change after pledging never to waiver on a woman’s right to choose?

A: I was always personally opposed to abortion, as I think almost everyone in this nation is. And the question for me was, what is the role of government? And it was quite theoretical and philosophical to consider what the role of government should be in this regard, and I felt that the Supreme Court had spoken and that government shouldn’t be involved and let people make their own decision. That all made a lot of sense to me. Then I became governor and the theoretical became reality. A bill came to my desk which related to the preservation of life. I recognized that I simply could not be part of an effort that would cause the destruction of human lift. And I didn’t hide from that change of heart. I recognize it’s a change. Every piece of legislation which came to my desk in the coming years as the governor, I came down on the side of preserving the sanctity of life.

http://www.ontheissues.org/governor/Mitt_Romney_Abortion.htm

While Romney claims to have had a true change of heart and has always come down on the side of pro-life, since his "repentance", nonetheless there are those who would disagree with that. Even RomneyCare has provisions in it covering abortions.

So, my gut feeling is that Romney, being the RINO he is, is still an untrustworthy flip-flopper. Unprincipled people tend to be that.

http://prolifeprofiles.com/romney

Boxcar

Box, this is what I believe it was gametheory, was saying earlier in the thread. Romney is a POLITICIAN. He will say what will garner him support. Is it right? In the political realm, it seems to work. In real life, no. But, that is the problem....the political realm has forgotten about us in the real world. They will say and do and pander to whomever to hold that office. That does not mean he is liberal or not, rhino or not, conservative or not. It means he is a POLITICIAN......
It's gonna be this way until the TP or another group can gain enough clout to put up their own represenative. That's why njot many are giving Cain a chance. Guy has great ideas...speaks his mind...tell the truth (or what he believe to be truth), BUT he does NOT have big support. Can he win the nomination??? It's a long road and gonna be a tough one. Christy was supposed to be a big conservative.....if so, why did he throw his support (which carries a lot of weight as a lot of people love christy) behind Mitt of Mitt is everything you mentioned?
Bottom line...THEY ARE FREAKING POLITICIANS!

boxcar

10-14-2011, 12:50 AM

Ummm I couldnt disagree more with the OP of this thread.
Not necessarily about his views towards Mitt but his reasoning about voting for Mitt if he were the nomination.
Personally, I hope he isnt the nomination...BUT, if it is him, HE WILL GET MY VOTE OVER OBAMA.
A non vote...is the same as a vote for Obama. Given a hypothetical that any district in america is decided by votes (which by the way isnt really a hypothetical), although districts themselves are not actually counted towards presidential votes, ANY vote could be the deciding one.
I could not in my right mind, chose to stay away from the polls and not vote, then turn around and bitch about the person in the WH. If I fail to excercise my right to vote, then I feel I have given up my right to bitch about the guy who wins. Of course this is my opinion and do not expect others to subscribe to it...
Just saying.....whomever the opposing parties nomination is will ultimately get my vote.
As to a lib is a lib is a lib comment made earlier in this thread, I disagree there too. Course then again, I don't think Obama's agenda is liberal. Hillary is liberal and I would gladly take her now!!!

You're quite right. A non-vote for a RINO candidate would help Obama. But I stand by my rationale. If a RINO is the best the people can put up for president, then the nation deserves everything it gets. At the end of the day...the people of this country bear the most responsibility for the state of this Union. To my of thinking, why prolong the agony? What good purpose would it serve to kick the can down the road a piece? Might as well go down that dark road to socialism sooner rather than later. Don't you know that the country is already living on borrowed time?

Boxcar

newtothegame

10-14-2011, 12:52 AM

You're quite right. A non-vote for a RINO candidate would help Obama. But I stand by my rationale. If a RINO is the best the people can put up for president, then the nation deserves everything it gets. At the end of the day...the people of this country bear the most responsibility for the state of this Union. To my of thinking, why prolong the agony? What good purpose would it serve to kick the can down the road a piece? Might as well go down that dark road to socialism sooner rather than later. Don't you know that the country is already living on borrowed time?

Boxcar
But that's my point box...it's NOT what the people are putting up. It's big business (meaning politics)...
We have to change the culture in washington. That's what the TP is about along with conservative values. Going against the MACHINE (both right and left) is a tough road to hoe. That's why I said Cain will have a hard time of it .....

bigmack

10-14-2011, 01:09 AM

He definitely is a believer in AGW.

So, my gut feeling is that Romney, being the RINO he is, is still an untrustworthy flip-flopper. Unprincipled people tend to be that.
Have no fear. On AGW he said man has some effect but the verdict is out on how much and he would NOT implement heavy restrictions or EPA mandates based on inconclusive evidence.

If you think he would take action to favor abortion, I think that is irrational.

Flip-flop :confused: Who hasn't?

boxcar

10-14-2011, 01:15 AM

Box, this is what I believe it was gametheory, was saying earlier in the thread. Romney is a POLITICIAN. He will say what will garner him support. Is it right? In the political realm, it seems to work. In real life, no. But, that is the problem....the political realm has forgotten about us in the real world. They will say and do and pander to whomever to hold that office. That does not mean he is liberal or not, rhino or not, conservative or not. It means he is a POLITICIAN......
It's gonna be this way until the TP or another group can gain enough clout to put up their own represenative. That's why njot many are giving Cain a chance. Guy has great ideas...speaks his mind...tell the truth (or what he believe to be truth), BUT he does NOT have big support. Can he win the nomination??? It's a long road and gonna be a tough one. Christy was supposed to be a big conservative.....if so, why did he throw his support (which carries a lot of weight as a lot of people love christy) behind Mitt of Mitt is everything you mentioned?
Bottom line...THEY ARE FREAKING POLITICIANS!

No, here's the bottom line that you and GT are missing: As the Good Books says, you know a person by his FRUITS -- not his words -- but his FRUITS! Do you understand what this means? It means by his works, by his deeds -- which very often will conflict with his cheap, smooth. silver-tongued words. So, in my world -- what a person does defines him.. As the old adage goes, if it walks like a duck and quacks like one, there's a very good chance it's a real duck. Romney's record tells me that he's a real quack!

I, as voter, don't live in this surreal "political world". I live in the real world. And I want a real person to represent me. Someone with some deep-seated core values that aren't rooted in the dark pit of hell, would be nice for a change. I'm sick of two-bit, phony, hypocritical, self-serving liars who are in the game strictly for themselves. That may work for THEM, but it doesn't work for me. And quite, frankly, it hasn't been working very well for this nation, either, in case you haven't noticed.

And my sentiment is over two years old. I truly had to drag myself to the polls last election to vote for McCain -- someone who I find despicable. I told my wife, after we left the polling place, that that would be the last time I would ever waste my time to just vote against another detestable candidate. Before I kick the bucket, I would love for once to actually cast my vote for someone. What a novel idea, eh?

Boxcar

boxcar

10-14-2011, 01:36 AM

Have no fear. On AGW he said man has some effect but the verdict is out on how much and he would NOT implement heavy restrictions or EPA mandates based on inconclusive evidence.

If you think he would take action to favor abortion, I think that is irrational.

Flip-flop :confused: Who hasn't?

I have no fear at all, Mack. But just tell me why I should believe him, besides his words? I mean...he would never, ever lie to pander to conservatives to get their votes, would he?

I guess since "everyone" flip-flops, this is the moral normative, now? Kinda like gay marriage is becoming in our society, or maybe sex with animals next, as the enlightened OWS crowd chanted in the park the other day? (Pedophilia certainly can't be far behind that, can it?) It seems as though this country increasingly relishes wallowing in the muck and mire of its own filthy abominations. Or am I being too harsh?

As far as abortion is concerned, I think it's inclusion in RomneyCare is irrational -- not to mention murderous.

Boxcar

bigmack

10-14-2011, 02:59 AM

I guess since "everyone" flip-flops, this is the moral normative, now? Kinda like gay marriage is becoming in our society, or maybe sex with animals next, as the enlightened OWS crowd chanted in the park the other day? (Pedophilia certainly can't be far behind that, can it?) It seems as though this country increasingly relishes wallowing in the muck and mire of its own filthy abominations. Or am I being too harsh?
My sense is you're overshooting the target.

Don't buy into this Romney/FF brigade. The Ken Doll can feel a draft in the room like no other. The 'draft' is ANYTHING against the policies of the previous 4-8-16 years. Well, maybe 4.

Gay marriage? I'd let it go. The momentum is in your disfavor.

Actor

10-14-2011, 03:12 AM

I agree on Huntsman...

The party leaning towards Cain doesn't bode well. Its a good thing we still have a few months...
About two. I think the NH primary is in December.

PaceAdvantage

10-14-2011, 03:34 AM

This is GREAT. < insert big toothy-grin smiley dude >Why in the world would ANYONE, including YOU, want four more years of Obama? :lol: :lol: :lol:

JustRalph

10-14-2011, 05:23 AM

Why in the world would ANYONE, including YOU, want four more years of Obama? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Some people can't admit when they are wrong

Sean Hannity and a few others look more brilliant every day this guy is prez.

And I don't like Hannity, so it's tough for me to say.......but sometimes you have to call them as you see them.......which illustrates the Obama paradox

newtothegame

10-14-2011, 06:30 AM

No, here's the bottom line that you and GT are missing: As the Good Books says, you know a person by his FRUITS -- not his words -- but his FRUITS! Do you understand what this means? It means by his works, by his deeds -- which very often will conflict with his cheap, smooth. silver-tongued words. So, in my world -- what a person does defines him.. As the old adage goes, if it walks like a duck and quacks like one, there's a very good chance it's a real duck. Romney's record tells me that he's a real quack!

I, as voter, don't live in this surreal "political world". I live in the real world. And I want a real person to represent me. Someone with some deep-seated core values that aren't rooted in the dark pit of hell, would be nice for a change. I'm sick of two-bit, phony, hypocritical, self-serving liars who are in the game strictly for themselves. That may work for THEM, but it doesn't work for me. And quite, frankly, it hasn't been working very well for this nation, either, in case you haven't noticed.

And my sentiment is over two years old. I truly had to drag myself to the polls last election to vote for McCain -- someone who I find despicable. I told my wife, after we left the polling place, that that would be the last time I would ever waste my time to just vote against another detestable candidate. Before I kick the bucket, I would love for once to actually cast my vote for someone. What a novel idea, eh?

Boxcar

So, based on your beliefs which I respect by the way (and I will not take this back to religion, there is a thrtead for that)....
Why vote? I mean EVERY politician lies! EVERYONE say's something that will be what his/her audience wants to hear. I am sure lying can't be a good thing regardless of their "fruits"???

lsbets

10-14-2011, 10:14 AM

I have no fear at all, Mack. But just tell me why I should believe him, besides his words? I mean...he would never, ever lie to pander to conservatives to get their votes, would he?

I guess since "everyone" flip-flops, this is the moral normative, now? Kinda like gay marriage is becoming in our society, or maybe sex with animals next, as the enlightened OWS crowd chanted in the park the other day? (Pedophilia certainly can't be far behind that, can it?) It seems as though this country increasingly relishes wallowing in the muck and mire of its own filthy abominations. Or am I being too harsh?

As far as abortion is concerned, I think it's inclusion in RomneyCare is irrational -- not to mention murderous.

Boxcar

Please tell me you are not comparing gay marriage to sex with animals and pedophilia.

hcap

10-14-2011, 10:50 AM

Please tell me you are not comparing gay marriage to sex with animals and pedophilia.Depends on the meaning of "put to death" and how far box wants to go down the rabbit hole today.

Maybe he might just say "archaic"?

Leviticus 20

13 "If a man has sex with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is abhorrent. They must be put to death; they are responsible for their own deaths.

14 "If a man marries both a woman and her mother, that's wicked. All three of them must be burned at the stake, purging the wickedness from the community.

15 "If a man has sex with an animal, he must be put to death and you must kill the animal.

16 "If a woman has sex with an animal, you must kill both the woman and the animal. They must be put to death. And they are responsible for their deaths.

hcap

10-14-2011, 11:15 AM

Way back when, John Kennedy said that he respected the separation of church and state and would keep his faith separate from his politics.

So all the candidates have gotta do is say the same and keep their surrogates muffled.

Never mind. Forget I mentioned it :cool:

Tom

10-14-2011, 11:29 AM

hcap

10-14-2011, 11:34 AM

Good point, hcap.
A smart candidate will not waste time on anything but the three core issues:

Fiscal responsibility - strong economy
Smaller gov - less interference
Strong national defense

Nothing else should ever be discussed.
Any questions on other topics should be rejected.

And one other requirement - if you don't have data to back it up, you don't have a plan.Sorry Tom. There is a huge constituency out in the public that HAS to know about God in politics. The far right has used it for quite a while as a litmus test.

PaceAdvantage

10-14-2011, 11:39 AM

Sorry Tom. There is a huge constituency out in the public that HAS to know about God in politics. The far right has used it for quite a while as a litmus test.I believe this to be more myth than reality, especially as the years fly by....

And what you deem to be "far right" is also more myth than reality.

hcap

10-14-2011, 11:49 AM

I believe this to be more myth than reality, especially as the years fly by....

And what you deem to be "far right" is also more myth than reality.
I will change that to "religious right"
No myth, and definitely a republican constituency, has been for quite a while. Why else would Perry's pastor even bother mentioning it? There is a controversy going on in the rethug base and it it incuded Mormonism

boxcar

10-14-2011, 11:54 AM

My sense is you're overshooting the target.

And my sense is that you and many other "conservatives" are apologizing for Romney out of sheer fear for the current state of the union and where it would continue to head if BO is reelected. You don't want to see that there isn't a dime's worth of difference between the two (looks and skin color exepted), when it comes down to it. Romney doesn't have a true conservative bone in his body.

What is sad to see in you, Mack is that apparently, now, you believe flip-floppers are credible human beings and can be trusted. If I'm overshooting, then surely you are undershooting!

Boxcar

boxcar

10-14-2011, 12:02 PM

So, based on your beliefs which I respect by the way (and I will not take this back to religion, there is a thrtead for that)....
Why vote? I mean EVERY politician lies! EVERYONE say's something that will be what his/her audience wants to hear. I am sure lying can't be a good thing regardless of their "fruits"???

This was precisely the sentiment I expressed to you in my last post. The occasional lie is one thing (and bad enough), but most politicians' lives today revolve around deceitfulness. In fact, many voters have come to accept lying as a normative for the professional politician.

Boxcar

boxcar

10-14-2011, 12:54 PM

The link is a very long read, but it will give you deeper insights into Romney. Here's one juicy excerpt:

Romney's Commission organized public gay "Youth Pride Day" parades and "transgender proms" which promote unhealthy and risky behavior

Youth Pride Day ends with a "GLBT Prom" at Boston City Hall Plaza where children as young as middle school age are allowed to mingle with cruising homosexual adults. Perhaps Romney should have proclaimed this day "Pedophile Heaven Day." The prom is promoted by the Governor's Commission and sponsored by the Boston Alliance of Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Youth (BAGLY), a group that has promoted adult-child sex and has received funding from the Governor's Commission. (The executive director of BAGLY is a male-to-female transsexual.) Photos of the prom and a flyer handed out by pedophiles seeking boys at that event. Info on the BAGLY, pedophilia and its connection to the Commission. More info on BAGLY and its connection to the Commission

Then we have this juicy example of Mitt's, "Do as I say, not as I do" story:

Romney Rewards one of the State's Leading Anti-Marriage Attorneys by Making him a Judge

Romney told the U.S. Senate on June 22, 2004, that the "real threat to the States is not the constitutional amendment process, in which the states participate, but activist judges who disregard the law and redefine marriage . . ." Romney sounds tough but yet he had no qualms advancing the legal career of one of the leading anti-marriage attorneys. He nominated Stephen Abany to a District Court. Abany has been a key player in the Massachusetts Lesbian and Gay Bar Association which, in its own words, is "dedicated to ensuring that the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court decision on marriage equality is upheld, and that any anti-gay amendment or legislation is defeated."

Press release from governor's office 5/4/2005
- U.S. Senate testimony by Gov. Mitt Romney, 6/22/2004

Then we have this:

Romney announces he won't fill judicial vacancies before term ends

* Despite his rhetoric about judicial activism, Romney announced that he won't fill all the remaining vacancies during his term - but instead leave them for his liberal Democrat successor!

Governor Mitt Romney pledged yesterday not to make a flurry of lame-duck judicial appointments in the final days of his administration . . . David Yas, editor of Lawyers Weekly, said Romney is "bucking tradition" by resisting the urge to fill all remaining judgeships. "It is a tradition for governors to use that power to appoint judges aggressively in the waning moments of their administration," Yas said. He added that Romney has been criticized for failing to make judicial appointments. "The legal community has consistently criticized him for not filling open seats quickly enough and being a little too painstaking in the process and being dismissive of the input of the Judicial Nominating Commission," Yas said.
- Boston Globe 11/2/2006

So, Romney railed against "judicial activism", but then wanted to leave the appointment of judges to his liberal Dem successor? How very odd! One is led to wonder why he would buck the long held tradition of filling those vacancies before term's end. Could it possibly be that Romney shirked his responsibility because, in good conscience he could have only appointed liberals to those vacancies, but he didn't want to leave an even longer paper trail behind that would betray his own liberalism? Romney had much bigger fish to fry than merely appointing judges. He didn't want to do anything that would further hinder his run for the WH.

To all you Deniers out there, I'll leave you with this: If Romney is a conservative, I'm the pope.

http://www.massresistance.org/docs/marriage/romney/record/

Boxcar

Sugar Ron

10-14-2011, 02:50 PM

Why in the world would ANYONE, including YOU, want four more years of Obama? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Let's just say that I can't seem to shake that Great (Bush-Cheney-GOP) Recession thingy.

The thought of giving those economic keys back to cons quite frankly scares the bejesus out of me.

Apparently Krug feels the same way:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/14/opinion/rabbit-hole-economics.html?_r=1&hp

boxcar

10-14-2011, 03:05 PM

Apparently Krug feels the same way

Can you update us on what he's feeling these days about alien invasions as a viable solution to the woes of the U.S. economy?

Boxcar

Sugar Ron

10-14-2011, 03:08 PM

Some people can't admit when they are wrong

Sean Hannity and a few others look more brilliant every day this guy is prez.

And I don't like Hannity, so it's tough for me to say.......but sometimes you have to call them as you see them.......which illustrates the Obama paradox

LMAO ... yeah, the same 'brilliant' guy who did everything in his power to get that doofus from TX elected twice.

boxcar

10-14-2011, 03:41 PM

LMAO ... yeah, the same 'brilliant' guy who did everything in his power to get that doofus from TX elected twice.

And this coming from a guy who can't find anything positive to brag about the "genius" you helped elected.

But wait...I'll help you out. You can boast about him sending U.S. troops on the ground in Uganda -- but I just can't figure out exactly what the critically important national security interests are. But you'll help us out on that, right?

Or how' bout bragging about Obama breaking U.S. law (AGAIN) by financing military actions in countries that conscript children into their armies? Where the heck is the SEIU to enforce "child labor" laws for the protection of poor, defenseless children -- against the president of the U.S., yet? Help us out here, will ya?

Boxcar

hcap

10-15-2011, 03:32 AM

boxcar

10-15-2011, 11:55 AM

Can someone spell HYPOCRISY ?

"According to Steve Kornacki, Rush has been trashing Mittens robustly and urging his listeners not to support him — anybody but Mittens. Rush’s influence is such that he could keep support for Mittens low enough to cost him the nomination.

Kornacki says also that much of Rush’s animus is directed at Mitt’s Massachusetts health care plan, the blueprint for “Obamacare.” However, Rush was fine with Romney when he ran in 2008 and had no issues with Romneycare, even though it was a couple of years old at that point.

This illustrates perfectly how irrational and hysterical much of the right’s response to Obama’s presidency has been. The individual mandate is actually a concept is actually a concept with deep conservative roots, one that numerous congressional Republicans touted....

http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-chait/obamas-moderate-health-care-plan

...as an alternative to Bill Clinton’s reform proposal in 1994. This is why Romney had no trouble finding a representative of the Heritage Foundation to join him on stage when he signed his law in 2008. And it’s why that law just wasn’t a big deal to Limbaugh and most other conservative opinion-shapers back in 2008 — and why it only became a problem for Romney when Obama embraced it at the national level.

It’s not that hard to imagine an alternate universe in which Romney somehow won the White House in 2008, then muscled through a national version of his Massachusetts law — with Republican support. But it was Obama who won, and when he tried to do the same thing, virtually every Republican in America accused him of destroying capitalism. As Jonathan Bernstein put it, it seems that to the right the Affordable Care Act isn’t socialism but that Obamacare is."

If Rush supported Romney THREE YEARS ago, under very different conditions, it was probably more of an anti-McCain expression. So, it's neither hypocritical or contradictory. (Look up the Law of Non-Contradiction.) And besides this, confer with your pal Mosty about different condition which, according to him, give people unbridled license to talk seven different ways out of their mouth. :rolleyes:

Hint: Look at who was running back in '08 and who is running now. The field is kinda different in case you haven't noticed. :rolleyes:

And did Heritage support all of RomneyCare or just certain provisions in it?

But whatever it was Heritage supported about RomneyCare, two things are certain. Most of Obama's "57" states don't support socialized medicine, nor do most people. Don't believe this? Look at the results of the midterm elections.

Boxcar