Another Positive.

[turninforhome10]

Name: CLARK MICHEAL HANNA Ruling Date: 10/11/2011
Jurisdiction: Pennsylvania Horse Racing Commission Facility: PHILADELPHIA PARK
Ruling Number: 11278PP Ruling Type: Positive Drug Test
Breed: Thoroughbred Division: Horse
Fine Amount: $ 1000 Fine Paid: Not Reported
Suspension Start: Suspension End:
Ruling Text: TRAINER CLARK M. HANNA APPEARED AT A HEARING BEFORE THE BOARD OF STEWARDS ON REPORT FROM THE OFFICIAL CHEMIST FOR THE PENNSYLVANIA STATE HORSE RACING COMMISSION THAT SAMPLE #221614-FLIM TAKEN FROM THE HORSE "A.U.MINER” WHICH FINISHED FIRST (1ST) IN RACE ON JULY 16,2011, AT PHILADELPHIA PARK, TESTED POSITIVE FOR METHYLPREDNISOLONE. CONFIRMATION TESTING ON SPLIT SAMPLE #221614-FLIM WAS MADE BY TRUESDAIL LABORATORIES, INC. OF TUSTIN, CA. THEREFORE, AFTER CONSIDERING ALL TESTIMONY PRESENTED AND THE INFORMATION SUBMITTED TO THE BOARD OF STEWARDS BY INVESTIGATORS OF THE PENNSYLVANIA STATE HORSE RACING COMMISSION. TRAINER CLARK M. HANNA IS FOUND TO BE IN VIOLATION OF PA. CODE, TITLE 8, SECTION 163.302(A) (1), 163.303(A,B,C), 163.309 AND. 163.521(F) . ACCORDINGLY, TRAINER CLARK M. HANNA IS HEREBY FINED ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS ($1,000.00). THE HORSE "A.U.MINER” IS DISQUALIFIED FROM PURSE MONEY PURSUANT TO PA. CODE, TITLE 5, SECTION 163.303(C) AND COMMISSION DIRECTIVE DATED JULY 23,1982. THE BOARD OF STEWARDS DIRECT HE HORSEMEN'S BOOKKEEPER TO REDISTRIBUTE THE PURSE MONEY FOR RACE #8 ON JU Y 16,2011 TO THE FOLLOWING ORDER OF F!NISH, PENDING PERIOD OF APPEAL: 1ST. BIRDRUN 2ND. AFLEET AGAIN 3RD. PONZI SCHEME 4TH. MOE MAN 5TH. SCHOOLYARD DREAMS THE PURSE MONEY "A.U.MINER” IS FORFEITED. THIS RULING SHALL IN NO WAY AFFECT THE PARI-MUTUEL PAY-OFF IN RACE #8 ON JULY 16,2011.

Steroids are a scourge and just another example of trainers taking all shots to get ahead.
Was this not a win and your in race as this was the Greenwood? Now what?

[Brogan]

Methylprednisolne is an adrenocortical steroid, NOT an anabolic steroid that was so much in the racing press. Generally speaking it is used as an anti-inflammatory as part of a joint tapping procedure. Some trainers and vets like it, some don't.

Obviously in this case, they used it too close to the race and it didn't clear the horse's system in time. Sucks to be them.

[Hanover1]

Name: CLARK MICHEAL HANNA Ruling Date: 10/11/2011
Jurisdiction: Pennsylvania Horse Racing Commission Facility: PHILADELPHIA PARK
Ruling Number: 11278PP Ruling Type: Positive Drug Test
Breed: Thoroughbred Division: Horse
Fine Amount: $ 1000 Fine Paid: Not Reported
Suspension Start: Suspension End:
Ruling Text: TRAINER CLARK M. HANNA APPEARED AT A HEARING BEFORE THE BOARD OF STEWARDS ON REPORT FROM THE OFFICIAL CHEMIST FOR THE PENNSYLVANIA STATE HORSE RACING COMMISSION THAT SAMPLE #221614-FLIM TAKEN FROM THE HORSE "A.U.MINER” WHICH FINISHED FIRST (1ST) IN RACE ON JULY 16,2011, AT PHILADELPHIA PARK, TESTED POSITIVE FOR METHYLPREDNISOLONE. CONFIRMATION TESTING ON SPLIT SAMPLE #221614-FLIM WAS MADE BY TRUESDAIL LABORATORIES, INC. OF TUSTIN, CA. THEREFORE, AFTER CONSIDERING ALL TESTIMONY PRESENTED AND THE INFORMATION SUBMITTED TO THE BOARD OF STEWARDS BY INVESTIGATORS OF THE PENNSYLVANIA STATE HORSE RACING COMMISSION. TRAINER CLARK M. HANNA IS FOUND TO BE IN VIOLATION OF PA. CODE, TITLE 8, SECTION 163.302(A) (1), 163.303(A,B,C), 163.309 AND. 163.521(F) . ACCORDINGLY, TRAINER CLARK M. HANNA IS HEREBY FINED ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS ($1,000.00). THE HORSE "A.U.MINER” IS DISQUALIFIED FROM PURSE MONEY PURSUANT TO PA. CODE, TITLE 5, SECTION 163.303(C) AND COMMISSION DIRECTIVE DATED JULY 23,1982. THE BOARD OF STEWARDS DIRECT HE HORSEMEN'S BOOKKEEPER TO REDISTRIBUTE THE PURSE MONEY FOR RACE #8 ON JU Y 16,2011 TO THE FOLLOWING ORDER OF F!NISH, PENDING PERIOD OF APPEAL: 1ST. BIRDRUN 2ND. AFLEET AGAIN 3RD. PONZI SCHEME 4TH. MOE MAN 5TH. SCHOOLYARD DREAMS THE PURSE MONEY "A.U.MINER” IS FORFEITED. THIS RULING SHALL IN NO WAY AFFECT THE PARI-MUTUEL PAY-OFF IN RACE #8 ON JULY 16,2011.

Steroids are a scourge and just another example of trainers taking all shots to get ahead.
Was this not a win and your in race as this was the Greenwood? Now what?

Ok, I'll chime in here. The drug in question is a commonly used steroid to treat many ailments, both equine and human. Do we know the particulars on this event? Posting an official ruling explains zippo other than the individual sample was found to have exceded threshold levels. The vast majority of positives, an overwhelming majority in fact, fall into this category. What, exactly was poster intent here? To inform us that someone else was caught, yet again? But, we already know this happens all the time, right? So where are all the other violations that occur daily (yes, daily)? Is this a personal attack on the violator? Or are we trying to prove a point, and if so, what is this point? Yeah we get it, we want everybody to know who the cheats are. Hows that workin for ya? Reduced/solved the problem? It has not made anyone think twice according to the weekly sheets I see.

[Tom]

So you think we should just ignore it and hope it will go away?

[Spalding No!]

Reduced/solved the problem? It has not made anyone think twice according to the weekly sheets I see.

Which is probably why you have a major trainer facing a 10-year ban and a nationwide drive to alter the rules and regulations regarding allowable raceday medication.

[Hanover1]

So you think we should just ignore it and hope it will go away?

Make a difference or make noise

[Hanover1]

Which is probably why you have a major trainer facing a 10-year ban and a nationwide drive to alter the rules and regulations regarding allowable raceday medication.

A nationwide drive? Where? The Dutrow situation was self propelled, not due to internet posting.

[turninforhome10]

Ok, I'll chime in here. The drug in question is a commonly used steroid to treat many ailments, both equine and human. Do we know the particulars on this event? Posting an official ruling explains zippo other than the individual sample was found to have exceded threshold levels. The vast majority of positives, an overwhelming majority in fact, fall into this category. What, exactly was poster intent here? To inform us that someone else was caught, yet again? But, we already know this happens all the time, right? So where are all the other violations that occur daily (yes, daily)? Is this a personal attack on the violator? Or are we trying to prove a point, and if so, what is this point? Yeah we get it, we want everybody to know who the cheats are. Hows that workin for ya? Reduced/solved the problem? It has not made anyone think twice according to the weekly sheets I see.

Yeah Predisone is used for treating inflammation(duh), I would not post unless I understood the drug and the effects. If you read a little closer, since you are so smart, you would realize this was a "win and your in race" for the Breeders Cup Marathon. Positives happen all the time as I have been around for a while. Why don't you explain since you are so full of wisdom how this effects who goes to the Breeders Cup
The rulings are listed for the wole world to see on RCI. The fact that a horse who qualified for the Breeders Cup based on a tainted effort, was caught cheating means nothing to me except for I would like to know how this affects the upcoming race. Why do I care if you bet horses whoes trainers have had bad tests, that is your problem. I poised a question as to how this positive affects the BC. Reading is fundemantal

[Hanover1]

Yeah Predisone is used for treating inflammation(duh), I would not post unless I understood the drug and the effects. If you read a little closer, since you are so smart, you would realize this was a "win and your in race" for the Breeders Cup Marathon. Positives happen all the time as I have been around for a while. Why don't you explain since you are so full of wisdom how this effects who goes to the Breeders Cup
The rulings are listed for the wole world to see on RCI. The fact that a horse who qualified for the Breeders Cup based on a tainted effort, was caught cheating means nothing to me except for I would like to know how this affects the upcoming race. Why do I care if you bet horses whoes trainers have had bad tests, that is your problem. I poised a question as to how this positive affects the BC. Reading is fundemantal

I don't bet, so no problem there....since you are so smart. Perhaps runner up would be the obvious answer here?

[Tom]

Make a difference or make noise

Oh, ok, we will solve it with cute slogans.

[Spalding No!]

A nationwide drive? Where?

You got to be kidding. But I guess this response fits with your "head buried in the sand" sensibilities.

The Dutrow situation was self propelled, not due to internet posting.

I didn't suggest that internet posting had anything to do with Dutrow's plight. I was merely suggesting that the "daily" (as you put it) medication violations so rampant in the sport are part of the impetus for all the re-examination of medication rules currently underway.

Back to your original gripe: You can't possibly think that the only posts worthy of being on this forum are those that carry the intent of promoting positive change in Thoroughbred racing. If so, you have a lot of hall monitoring to do.

[Hanover1]

Oh, ok, we will solve it with cute slogans.

It works so well for you.....

[Hanover1]

You got to be kidding. But I guess this response fits with your "head buried in the sand" sensibilities.



I didn't suggest that internet posting had anything to do with Dutrow's plight. I was merely suggesting that the "daily" (as you put it) medication violations so rampant in the sport are part of the impetus for all the re-examination of medication rules currently underway.

Back to your original gripe: You can't possibly think that the only posts worthy of being on this forum are those that carry the intent of promoting positive change in Thoroughbred racing. If so, you have a lot of hall monitoring to do.

Head in sand looking for the nationwide drive...spearheaded by whom again? I hear several split factions making alot of noise, but nothing in unison yet, and this IS the problem. About that drive again.....

[Spalding No!]

Head in sand looking for the nationwide drive...spearheaded by whom again? I hear several split factions making alot of noise, but nothing in unison yet, and this IS the problem. About that drive again.....

Yawn. More word twisting. Multiple factions or concerted effort. Doesn't matter. Point is that there is a trend towards altering the medication rules. Period.

I applaud your ingenious backpedal, nevertheless. I guess that Aga Khan quote someone else posted that you responded to in the other thread made you realize you ought to give up your little charade before you lost too much face.

[turninforhome10]

Ok since my question about the win and your in thing has blown up to this I would like to know where Mr Hanover stands on Tamoxifen being found in 3 horses at Hoosier and a paltry 1000 fine and then how about zilpaterol hydrochloride being found in 3 horses at Phila and a 1500 fine. Drugs that have absolutely NO REASON to be anywhere near a horse and a fine. Put a horses life in jepopardy and you will get a fine is the message this is sending? Overages are part of the game and sometimes a drug can be accidently administrered by a groom, but a breast cancer drug and a cattle drug both found in horses and a FINE. That's it.
Mr Hanover my intent was not start a dissertation on drug posititves, rather it was to find an answer to question about BC. But since you are the voice of concious of this board regarding this matter please explain how you would handle punishement on the above matter

[Tom]

It works so well for you.....
I admit I am overwhelmed by your contribution to this thread. I just expected so much more from someone who obviously knows it all on the subject. Or any topic. :sleeping:

[Hanover1]

Yawn. More word twisting. Multiple factions or concerted effort. Doesn't matter. Point is that there is a trend towards altering the medication rules. Period.

I applaud your ingenious backpedal, nevertheless. I guess that Aga Khan quote someone else posted that you responded to in the other thread made you realize you ought to give up your little charade before you lost too much face.

Drive or trend...wich one do we go with here?? Twist away.....still waiting on who is spearheading this drive, or is it a trend now? Ingenious backpedaling indeed...Multiple factions or concerted effort. Wich one most closely describes a nationwide drive? Is this drive united, or is this drive a contrived notion here? Truth is, nobody is doing enough, wich is a far cry from whatever you choose to call it. Not a whisper yet of a national ruling party, with across the board actions, sanctions. Far from it.....next?

[Hanover1]

I admit I am overwhelmed by your contribution to this thread. I just expected so much more from someone who obviously knows it all on the subject. Or any topic. :sleeping:

48,000 posts suggests an overwhelming amount of information needed to share with others, on any topic. I do not comment on many topics fyi, unlike yourself.

[Hanover1]

I admit I am overwhelmed by your contribution to this thread. I just expected so much more from someone who obviously knows it all on the subject. Or any topic. :sleeping:

You have 10 year average of over 13 posts a day-every single day of the year, 365 days a year. Overwhelming contributions to be sure.....bedpan at the ready so ya don't miss any action?

[Hanover1]

Ok since my question about the win and your in thing has blown up to this I would like to know where Mr Hanover stands on Tamoxifen being found in 3 horses at Hoosier and a paltry 1000 fine and then how about zilpaterol hydrochloride being found in 3 horses at Phila and a 1500 fine. Drugs that have absolutely NO REASON to be anywhere near a horse and a fine. Put a horses life in jepopardy and you will get a fine is the message this is sending? Overages are part of the game and sometimes a drug can be accidently administrered by a groom, but a breast cancer drug and a cattle drug both found in horses and a FINE. That's it.
Mr Hanover my intent was not start a dissertation on drug posititves, rather it was to find an answer to question about BC. But since you are the voice of concious of this board regarding this matter please explain how you would handle punishement on the above matter

Was my answer to the question of who now gets in, clear, or close to reason? I am by no means the voice of conscious on this board or any other. Many others post here with different takes on all subjects. And I state this as fact and not as sarcasm. How would I handle the positives you outlined above? (why are we doing this again?) Using drugs that have no theraputic value to a horse, and are considered performance enhancers have guidelines that ruling bodies use to enforce existing rules. I am not the one that creates these guidelines or punishments, so why ask what I would do? My answer either way is not going to be enough I am sure.

[Tom]

48,000 posts suggests an overwhelming amount of information needed to share with others, on any topic. I do not comment on many topics fyi, unlike yourself.

You selected this thread specifically to whine in? :sleeping:

[appistappis]

someone should tell this trainer to just borrow what J.c. guerrero is using

[turninforhome10]

Was my answer to the question of who now gets in, clear, or close to reason? I am by no means the voice of conscious on this board or any other. Many others post here with different takes on all subjects. And I state this as fact and not as sarcasm. How would I handle the positives you outlined above? (why are we doing this again?) Using drugs that have no theraputic value to a horse, and are considered performance enhancers have guidelines that ruling bodies use to enforce existing rules. I am not the one that creates these guidelines or punishments, so why ask what I would do? My answer either way is not going to be enough I am sure.

There is no statements regarding this on the BC website, so the question remains unanswered. My point was this. What about the poor sap who ran second and had a good horse and would have trained forward to the BC but did not do so because of financial reasons, they got the shaft and I would be furious if I was the owner. Since I started the thread, I just wonder how you as an owner would feel if you got shafted from the BC based on the winner having a bad test 3 months ago and with 3 weeks to BC you find out you are in the BC. I would be very pissed and want heads to roll.

[Spalding No!]

Drive or trend...wich one do we go with here?? Twist away.....still waiting on who is spearheading this drive, or is it a trend now? Ingenious backpedaling indeed...Multiple factions or concerted effort. Wich one most closely describes a nationwide drive? Is this drive united, or is this drive a contrived notion here? Truth is, nobody is doing enough, wich is a far cry from whatever you choose to call it. Not a whisper yet of a national ruling party, with across the board actions, sanctions. Far from it.....next?

Whatever, dude. You're just chewing the scenery, talking in circles. Clearly you're the voice we need to come to the forefront and steer the industry in the right direction.

Funny how people get all puffed up cuz they've heard of methylprednisolone before.

[rastajenk]

What about the poor sap who ran second and had a good horse and would have trained forward to the BC but did not do so because of financial reasons, they got the shaft and I would be furious if I was the owner. I'm not going to argue with you about the findings and the ruling, but do you even know who the "poor sap who ran second" is? I think you'll find he's not poor and he's not a sap. ;)

[turninforhome10]

I'm not going to argue with you about the findings and the ruling, but do you even know who the "poor sap who ran second" is? I think you'll find he's not poor and he's not a sap. ;)
I don't want to ARGUE. I just want to know if the second place horse goes to the BC now. It was a very simple question that I thought someone might be able to answer. Birdrun was second and now first. I like the horse and would like to know if the horse gets the invite to the BC.
Simple question that everyone blew up into this. One answer would have sufficed. Never mind and I should have known better. I guess bringing a hot topic to the forum before it made it to the press was silly here.
You can read about it in blood horse here.
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/65523/a-u-miner-dqd-from-greenwood-cup-win

[toussaud]

methylprednisolone is a NSAID, it's not the same as "steroids" as we think of them. More of an anti inflammatory than anything else. probably just messed up the dosage or something like that and it wasn't all out the system by the time of the race or got the timing wrong.

Not only is it not wrong, it's beneficial to the horses, let's them train pain free or as pain free as possible. I don't see what he did wrong besides possibly get his timing wrong.

[Hanover1]

There is no statements regarding this on the BC website, so the question remains unanswered. My point was this. What about the poor sap who ran second and had a good horse and would have trained forward to the BC but did not do so because of financial reasons, they got the shaft and I would be furious if I was the owner. Since I started the thread, I just wonder how you as an owner would feel if you got shafted from the BC based on the winner having a bad test 3 months ago and with 3 weeks to BC you find out you are in the BC. I would be very pissed and want heads to roll.

I would be upset with myself for not having the cash to go. Happy I made it, but pissed I was not prepaired. Calling anyone to task other than the offender would not serve anyone. Another horse somewhere would have to fill in, and mine was next up, and I wasn't ready/able...that would be on me. An overall feeling of disgust would creep along I am sure, but at the end of the day, you kick yourself in the ass, and move on. If this horse was any stock, a few weeks out would not be a big deal unless he had been drilling him the past 3 months. Not sure whos head I could even turn, much less roll, in this situation. Just what is one supposed to do?

[Hanover1]

Whatever, dude. You're just chewing the scenery, talking in circles. Clearly you're the voice we need to come to the forefront and steer the industry in the right direction.

Funny how people get all puffed up cuz they've heard of methylprednisolone before.

Heard it? I used it for decades. Good luck on the nationwide drive. Let us know who they elect to head the committee. Many are waiting.

[turninforhome10]

methylprednisolone is a NSAID, it's not the same as "steroids" as we think of them. More of an anti inflammatory than anything else. probably just messed up the dosage or something like that and it wasn't all out the system by the time of the race or got the timing wrong.

Not only is it not wrong, it's beneficial to the horses, let's them train pain free or as pain free as possible. I don't see what he did wrong besides possibly get his timing wrong.
Still no answer and guess everyone is a chemist now. Were you telling this to everyone that had not the thread until the last post as it was posted several times. Yes he did something wrong, his horse tested positive for a class 4 violation. I have used predisone as it good for tapping joints and decreasing inflammation by lessening the immune response by b and t cells that make inflammatory markers. And Predisone is not an NSAID what does NSAID stand for Non steroidal anti inflammatory Lets put up a definition
METHYLPREDNISOLONE (meth ill pred NISS oh lone) is a corticosteroid. It is commonly used to treat inflammation of the skin, joints, lungs, and other organs. Common conditions treated include asthma, allergies, and arthritis. It is also used for other conditions, such as blood disorders and diseases of the adrenal glands

It is amazing, this place is just like the race track a lot of myth and legend but very little knowledge based on fact.

[Hanover1]

methylprednisolone is a NSAID, it's not the same as "steroids" as we think of them. More of an anti inflammatory than anything else. probably just messed up the dosage or something like that and it wasn't all out the system by the time of the race or got the timing wrong.

Not only is it not wrong, it's beneficial to the horses, let's them train pain free or as pain free as possible. I don't see what he did wrong besides possibly get his timing wrong.

I'm glad you brought this up instead of me :rolleyes: Should be getting half dozen or so answers telling you it is a PED because he could not run without it, and it WAS wrong. Another threshold positive on our hands, and here we are, gloves off, and all knowing. It never ends. And by the way, it was wrong, if test was accurate, not contaminated, and belonged to that horse. Intent is seldom looked at except behind closed doors during hearings, and those can go any wich way. The line in the sand has to stop somewhere. Many want the line moved, but have come up short to date.

[toussaud]

At the end of the day, I look at.. let's use football players.

It's one thing, to pop a few asprin (which is a NSAID), to help deal with the pain/get some rest after a tough week of practice. It's another thing to actually be shooting Anabolic steroids to try to grow/get bigger/stronger.

The thing is, there is no rule in the NFL or NCAA telling players how much asprin they can take (I don't think). Yet there is a rule in horse racing.

I'm not saying it wasn't wrong, as i am not a vet and i don't know all the side effects and effects of every last drug, nor do I protest to, but I do know enough to know that this is not the same as Dutrow for instance.

[onefast99]

There is no statements regarding this on the BC website, so the question remains unanswered. My point was this. What about the poor sap who ran second and had a good horse and would have trained forward to the BC but did not do so because of financial reasons, they got the shaft and I would be furious if I was the owner. Since I started the thread, I just wonder how you as an owner would feel if you got shafted from the BC based on the winner having a bad test 3 months ago and with 3 weeks to BC you find out you are in the BC. I would be very pissed and want heads to roll.
Actually there is, Birdrun is BCL he is nominated for the Marathon. The cost to enter is 15k(500k purse). AU Miner is also entered for that race. Both of these horses are in the body of the race. Unless the BC board takes action against the positive AU Miner had in July it looks as if there was no issues with how this played out.

[turninforhome10]

Actually there is, Birdrun is BCL he is nominated for the Marathon. The cost to enter is 15k(500k purse). AU Miner is also entered for that race. Both of these horses are in the body of the race. Unless the BC board takes action against the positive AU Miner had in July it looks as if there was no issues with how this played out.
So with the win and your idea does the positive get Birdrun in with reduced entry fees as promised or will this get hung up in appeals. I feel Birdrun should get in with the BC paying the entry fees as promised.

[iceknight]

Since I started the thread, I just wonder how you as an owner would feel if you got shafted from the BC based on the winner having a bad test 3 months ago and with 3 weeks to BC you find out you are in the BC. I would be very pissed and want heads to roll.

That is a good point. It also points for a need to leveling the playing field in the industry, ie, no drugs..

Also,slightly off topic, they seem to allow higher weights on horses in Europe? Does that give those horses an advantage when they compete in US races.. (ie having to run with lower load?)

[onefast99]

So with the win and your idea does the positive get Birdrun in with reduced entry fees as promised or will this get hung up in appeals. I feel Birdrun should get in with the BC paying the entry fees as promised.
Birdrun was already in. The part where the owners will pay the reduced fees hasn't been decided yet. I am sure they will do the right thing, as Birdrun was put up as the official winner of a win and you are in race, the Greenwood Cup.

[bushwick]

Think this is also known as vet a log

[turninforhome10]

Birdrun was already in. The part where the owners will pay the reduced fees hasn't been decided yet. I am sure they will do the right thing, as Birdrun was put up as the official winner of a win and you are in race, the Greenwood Cup.



Thanks very much. Great response.

[turninforhome10]

Think this is also known as vet a log

Totally different. Google is good for these things.
Triamcinolone acetonide is a highly potent synthetic glucocorticoid which is primarily effective because of its anti-inflammatory activity. The apparent analgesic effect is a result of the anti-inflammatory properties of the drug.

Predisone is predisone and vetalog is vetalog.
Twenty years in the medical field, 5 working for a Rhuematologist(auto immune doctor), 2 years working in test barn in Iowa, 10 years training and 20 years handicapping. If I don't know what I am talking about I will ask questions or use google or ask the racing vet who lives next door.

[PaceAdvantage]

It is amazing, this place is just like the race track a lot of myth and legend but very little knowledge based on fact.You're a semi-regular trasher of "this place."

Makes me wonder why you simply don't find "another place."

[turninforhome10]

Ok Goodbye

[PaceAdvantage]

Ok GoodbyeOh please spare me...if you interpreted my comment as me asking you to leave or suggesting you do, that's your mistake. But I think you'd rather play the role of martyr just the same.

I was simply asking an obvious question. I find it amusing that the folks who criticize this board the most are often times very active participants...

[turninforhome10]

Oh please spare me...if you interpreted my comment as me asking you to leave or suggesting you do, that's your mistake. But I think you'd rather play the role of martyr just the same.

I was simply asking an obvious question. I find it amusing that the folks who criticize this board the most are often times very active participants...

Why did you not leave your first statement in there, saying that I should not interpret your comments as suggesting I leave. You edited your whole first comment to throw it back on me. I did like this forum and the activities and discussions contained within. I called people out when they needed it and I expect the same when I am wrong. I like to educate people whenever I can as I have a lot of experience in this game by choice. I have found that helping people understand things is not always easy and sometimes eggs must be broken to make a point. Why don't you post your original comment for the others to see. I will miss my moniker but when you call me out for trying to dispel rumor and myth with fact so maybe someone won't have to go through the learning curve I did, you are wrong and my principals tell me I have worn out my welcome. It has been very enjoyable and thank you.
K Edwin Rollins

[Delawaretrainer]

Ok since my question about the win and your in thing has blown up to this I would like to know where Mr Hanover stands on Tamoxifen being found in 3 horses at Hoosier and a paltry 1000 fine and then how about zilpaterol hydrochloride being found in 3 horses at Phila and a 1500 fine. Drugs that have absolutely NO REASON to be anywhere near a horse and a fine. Put a horses life in jepopardy and you will get a fine is the message this is sending? Overages are part of the game and sometimes a drug can be accidently administrered by a groom, but a breast cancer drug and a cattle drug both found in horses and a FINE. That's it.
Mr Hanover my intent was not start a dissertation on drug posititves, rather it was to find an answer to question about BC. But since you are the voice of concious of this board regarding this matter please explain how you would handle punishement on the above matter

This is interesting....I didn't see the Zilpaterol positives on the RCI website. Where did you see them. I also saw two positives for Tamoxifen on there from two different trainers at Philly, one of which was appealing and then the rulings just "disappeared". Wierd huh?

Glad Philly is finding these things, although there was a question on thresholds over the winter as a number of trainers claim to have gotten depo positives 3 weeks after joint injections....

[PaceAdvantage]

Why did you not leave your first statement in there, saying that I should not interpret your comments as suggesting I leave. You edited your whole first comment to throw it back on me. I did like this forum and the activities and discussions contained within. I called people out when they needed it and I expect the same when I am wrong. I like to educate people whenever I can as I have a lot of experience in this game by choice. I have found that helping people understand things is not always easy and sometimes eggs must be broken to make a point. Why don't you post your original comment for the others to see. I will miss my moniker but when you call me out for trying to dispel rumor and myth with fact so maybe someone won't have to go through the learning curve I did, you are wrong and my principals tell me I have worn out my welcome. It has been very enjoyable and thank you.
K Edwin RollinsMy original comment was not what I was trying to say, so in order to make it crystal clear, I edited the comment within a minute or two...what appears now is exactly my intent.

Now, I never said I had a problem with you dispelling rumor and myth. Heck, that's been my number one priority on here since day one.

My problem is with people like you taking potshots at this entire forum, criticizing it on a semi-regular basis, yet continuing to participate.

If it's as awful as you claim it, and me, to be (you have criticized me personally on here a number of times), it leads me wonder why you continue to participate.

I know if I were you, I wouldn't continue to participate in an arena full of people I did not respect.

I think I raise a very valid, and very civil point. I'm not sure why you have avoided the question, and in fact, appear to be taking your ball and heading home...

[PaceAdvantage]

It is amazing, this place is just like the race track a lot of myth and legend but very little knowledge based on fact.And just to be clear, this is the comment of yours that I am addressing.

When you indict the entire forum like this (and you've done this numerous times in one form or another), you shouldn't be surprised that I would call it out.