Your ideal post time for races?

[Casino]

My ideal post time for weekday races would be 4:30.

[toussaud]

keep in mind i am at home all day


monday - noon
tuesday - no races
wednesday - 5pm (why i like playing woodbine)
thursdays - 3pm
Friday - i have a thing for night racing so the later the better, 7-9pm
saturday -either really early, or really late. i hate 3pm post times on saturdays. let's get it over with, or let me come home and bet. 11am if i could get it.
Sunday - 3pm

that schedule plays into my personal life quite well with TV sports and gym activities.

[Robert Goren]

I play at home too. and am retired. Noon is the ideal time for me. I seldom play on Sundays during the NFL or when Nebraska is playing football. I hate night racing now, but loved it when I was still working.

[toussaud]

I think in an idea world, a good compromise would be 4:30-5pm post time

4:30 card would mean the card ends right at about 8pm which shouldn't' be too late for most retirees (I don't think)

4:30 card for the avg person getting off work on a Thursday and wants to unwind, they could get to the track between 5:30-5:45 and still have about 5 or so races left.

[ArlJim78]

anytime as long as they're not synchronized with other tracks. right now there are 2-3 evenings per week when Presque Isle, Hoosier, and Turfway all kick off at 4:30 CST. a little stagger is nice in a situation like that.

[toussaud]

anytime as long as they're not synchronized with other tracks. right now there are 2-3 evenings per week when Presque Isle, Hoosier, and Turfway all kick off at 4:30 CST. a little stagger is nice in a situation like that.
i have noticed that as well as least with presque isle and hoosier. like every post time is at the exact same time, I mean what gives. it's not like there is a boatload of tracks going on at the time.

[duncan04]

Since Im at home during the day I like the Noon-1pm post times since I work nights. Wish more tracks ran at night on Monday since that is one of my days off from work.

[therussmeister]

I like 11:30 A.M. central time. I like to get done early. If I played from home I would like either 7 A.M. or 7 P.M.

[Casino]

i have noticed that as well as least with presque isle and hoosier. like every post time is at the exact same time, I mean what gives. it's not like there is a boatload of tracks going on at the time.

Do you think a after work post time will helped on track attendance?

[cj]

Do you think a after work post time will helped on track attendance?

As with most things in racing, the schedule is geared towards horsemen, not fans. It certainly doesn't help the bottom line.

[toussaud]

Do you think a after work post time will helped on track attendance?
i do not see why it would not, what few early bird special players you lose by them not being able to be in bed by 7pm, you get with the guy who would not mind going to the track after work

that's actually a pretty big deal down in hot springs, a few have been pushing for lights so in the warmer days, end of march, end of the meet in mid april they can start carding later race days, the big thing in little rock on a Thursday is to go to a club /bar / patio called cajun's warf but no one goes utnil like 10pm, but you have this big 5 hour gap that you want to do something but there is nothing to do when you get off work from 5 to 10. I could get to; the track from my house which was in west little rock in right at 1 hour, so that's perfect.



talk about a perfect outing, business professionals, men and women off work, grab a few drinks, wager on a few horses. I don't see how that's a bad thing. I really don't. And 8pm I don't think is too late for seniors.

I would very much love on friday8 when i go to keeneland, to be able to go to keeneland at 4:30, leave at 8pm, then go "out" and do something. your day could not get much better than that.

As i said it's a happy medium. The guy who sits at home and wagers all day would not mind the 11am post time.the guy who has a life and goes out and has friends who wagers, sees the point and wishes the post times would be later, let people go home, change clothes and go to the track, post time at about 7pm. 5pm IMHO is a happy medium.

[toussaud]

The relationship between work and horse racing, in a sense, reminds me of the relationship between the NFL and church. This isn't about religion whatsoever so don't take it that way, i'm just going off what I've seen in my short time here on this earth. I grew up playing the piano for my church. I went to one of "those" churches, the kind that it could very well be dark outside when you were finally let out of church.

Most people really do want to go to church, and most people do. But, there comes a point, when too much is just too much. When I first started playing the piano, we would get in church at 11am, and while it was long, it wasn't 100% intolerable. We'd get out sometime around 2-2:30 ish, and given the fact that I was in arknasas and most of us were cowboy fans, we could still make it home to watch the cowboy game. Seems extremely trivial. I assure you it's not.

Well' he got called to a bigger church, and the next pastor we brought in, would give 2-3 sermons in one day it seemed like, the church pretty much let out when he felt like leaving which could very well be 4:30-5pm and i am not exaggerating. About this time, there was a noticeable drop in tithes (I mean it's not like you keep count of attendance, nothing much you can really go off of). My father included, it just got to the point where he couldn't do it anymore. He started going to another church, and alot just stopped going altogether. And truth be told if i wasn't playing, i would have went right behind him. 5 hours in church is just too long, and from 11-5pm, you really don't have time to do anything else that day at all. It's really too late to go home and cook dinner and be with the family, it's too late to watch a good football game and this was before Sunday night football this was the mid to late 90's, that just sucks up your entire day.

This went on for about a year. After pleas (sound familiar), shaming people into staying (sound familiar), gimmics like 5 dollar dinner plates after church (though the food was usually very good), reality had to be faced. People like football. The solution they finally came up with, and while this is pretty common place now, it wasn't at the time, is to have 2 services: 1 8:00 "express" service, where the singing was condensed to just 2 songs, and the pastors sermon was condensed to 45 minutes, you would be out by 9:45 every Sunday in time for Sunday school which ended at like 10:45, then you still had time to go home change clothes and catch ALL the football on Sunday, and for the people who really did wanted to stay and listen to his long sermon he kept that in place.

The 8:00 service was so popular that within 2 years we had to get a building that was twice the size of the one we were in and the vast majority of them were men, and "business" was so good, not 3 years after we moved, we had a ceremony where we burned the mortgage because we had paid it off.


My point being, at some point, you have to realize who you are targeting, not be stubborn, and adjust accordingly. Rather you are a church, or a horse track.

Like Church, I don't think so many people are against horse racing per say, not like the avg person that doesn't play the races has a personal vendetta against the sport, though I know some do, alot of people aren't even given the opportunity to like horse racing, as they are never even given the opportunity to be exposed to it.

I'm siting here watching the Tampa Bay Devil Rays and the Texas Rangers play today in a stadium that could not have been more than half way full in an elimination playoff game, that started at noon on a freaking Tuesday. Then surprised when "ratings are low"

[Casino]

The relationship between work and horse racing, in a sense, reminds me of the relationship between the NFL and church. This isn't about religion whatsoever so don't take it that way, i'm just going off what I've seen in my short time here on this earth. I grew up playing the piano for my church. I went to one of "those" churches, the kind that it could very well be dark outside when you were finally let out of church.

Most people really do want to go to church, and most people do. But, there comes a point, when too much is just too much. When I first started playing the piano, we would get in church at 11am, and while it was long, it wasn't 100% intolerable. We'd get out sometime around 2-2:30 ish, and given the fact that I was in arknasas and most of us were cowboy fans, we could still make it home to watch the cowboy game. Seems extremely trivial. I assure you it's not.

Well' he got called to a bigger church, and the next pastor we brought in, would give 2-3 sermons in one day it seemed like, the church pretty much let out when he felt like leaving which could very well be 4:30-5pm and i am not exaggerating. About this time, there was a noticeable drop in tithes (I mean it's not like you keep count of attendance, nothing much you can really go off of). My father included, it just got to the point where he couldn't do it anymore. He started going to another church, and alot just stopped going altogether. And truth be told if i wasn't playing, i would have went right behind him. 5 hours in church is just too long, and from 11-5pm, you really don't have time to do anything else that day at all. It's really too late to go home and cook dinner and be with the family, it's too late to watch a good football game and this was before Sunday night football this was the mid to late 90's, that just sucks up your entire day.

This went on for about a year. After pleas (sound familiar), shaming people into staying (sound familiar), gimmics like 5 dollar dinner plates after church (though the food was usually very good), reality had to be faced. People like football. The solution they finally came up with, and while this is pretty common place now, it wasn't at the time, is to have 2 services: 1 8:00 "express" service, where the singing was condensed to just 2 songs, and the pastors sermon was condensed to 45 minutes, you would be out by 9:45 every Sunday in time for Sunday school which ended at like 10:45, then you still had time to go home change clothes and catch ALL the football on Sunday, and for the people who really did wanted to stay and listen to his long sermon he kept that in place.

The 8:00 service was so popular that within 2 years we had to get a building that was twice the size of the one we were in and the vast majority of them were men, and "business" was so good, not 3 years after we moved, we had a ceremony where we burned the mortgage because we had paid it off.


My point being, at some point, you have to realize who you are targeting, not be stubborn, and adjust accordingly. Rather you are a church, or a horse track.

Like Church, I don't think so many people are against horse racing per say, not like the avg person that doesn't play the races has a personal vendetta against the sport, though I know some do, alot of people aren't even given the opportunity to like horse racing, as they are never even given the opportunity to be exposed to it.

I'm siting here watching the Tampa Bay Devil Rays and the Texas Rangers play today in a stadium that could not have been more than half way full in an elimination playoff game, that started at noon on a freaking Tuesday. Then surprised when "ratings are low"

:ThmbUp: Church example was dead on i have been to the 4 hour church sermon on sunday.

[Cholly]

My uncle had a daily tee time of 1 pm. He said, "If a man has a job that won't make him a living by noon, he needs to find another job".

[Hanover1]

Not sure how bettors see this issue, but for my money, nights in the summer, and days in spring and fall/winter. For the horses sake most of all. A week of daytime racing in the early fall ala Lexington is great to see of anyone can improve on a speed/class situation by benifit of fast track and ideal temps. I never understood how the Little Brown Jug, a leg of the harness triple crown, was held on Thursday afternoons, however. Huge draws, always albiet smaller and smaller yearly of late. Something about conflicting scedules with other sports venues was offered up to me as a reason, but I can't for the life of me see wich ones.
For the bettors trackside, its alomst a non issue any more, but I want to say 3:00 local would work. Plenty of time for the 9-5 crowd to catch the feature, and be home in time to tell momma we had to work a little overtime ;)

[toussaud]

Not sure how bettors see this issue, but for my money, nights in the summer, and days in spring and fall/winter. For the horses sake most of all. A week of daytime racing in the early fall ala Lexington is great to see of anyone can improve on a speed/class situation by benifit of fast track and ideal temps. I never understood how the Little Brown Jug, a leg of the harness triple crown, was held on Thursday afternoons, however. Huge draws, always albiet smaller and smaller yearly of late. Something about conflicting scedules with other sports venues was offered up to me as a reason, but I can't for the life of me see wich ones.
For the bettors trackside, its alomst a non issue any more, but I want to say 3:00 local would work. Plenty of time for the 9-5 crowd to catch the feature, and be home in time to tell momma we had to work a little overtime ;)


the way i see it, every sport has "their thing" that they can get away doing something at a very unconventional time.

for baseball it's opening day. I even watch opening day and i really don't care for baseball anymore.

For football it's Monday night football. that's their thing and everyone else, has to schedule around Monday night football on Mondays.

for horse racing, IMHO it's really the Kentucky Oaks, not the Kentucky derby because the derby is on a Saturday but the oaks is a pretty big day too and will draw over 100k people. no one is going to complain about the oaks being on a Friday, nor should they IMHO. it's their day. anything for the most part that is going to be done on that day, is going to revolve around the Kentucky oaks from a sporting standpoint.

for trotters I suppose it's the little brown jug.

[mostpost]

The relationship between work and horse racing, in a sense, reminds me of the relationship between the NFL and church. This isn't about religion whatsoever so don't take it that way, i'm just going off what I've seen in my short time here on this earth. I grew up playing the piano for my church. I went to one of "those" churches, the kind that it could very well be dark outside when you were finally let out of church.

Most people really do want to go to church, and most people do. But, there comes a point, when too much is just too much. When I first started playing the piano, we would get in church at 11am, and while it was long, it wasn't 100% intolerable. We'd get out sometime around 2-2:30 ish, and given the fact that I was in arknasas and most of us were cowboy fans, we could still make it home to watch the cowboy game. Seems extremely trivial. I assure you it's not.

Well' he got called to a bigger church, and the next pastor we brought in, would give 2-3 sermons in one day it seemed like, the church pretty much let out when he felt like leaving which could very well be 4:30-5pm and i am not exaggerating. About this time, there was a noticeable drop in tithes (I mean it's not like you keep count of attendance, nothing much you can really go off of). My father included, it just got to the point where he couldn't do it anymore. He started going to another church, and alot just stopped going altogether. And truth be told if i wasn't playing, i would have went right behind him. 5 hours in church is just too long, and from 11-5pm, you really don't have time to do anything else that day at all. It's really too late to go home and cook dinner and be with the family, it's too late to watch a good football game and this was before Sunday night football this was the mid to late 90's, that just sucks up your entire day.

This went on for about a year. After pleas (sound familiar), shaming people into staying (sound familiar), gimmics like 5 dollar dinner plates after church (though the food was usually very good), reality had to be faced. People like football. The solution they finally came up with, and while this is pretty common place now, it wasn't at the time, is to have 2 services: 1 8:00 "express" service, where the singing was condensed to just 2 songs, and the pastors sermon was condensed to 45 minutes, you would be out by 9:45 every Sunday in time for Sunday school which ended at like 10:45, then you still had time to go home change clothes and catch ALL the football on Sunday, and for the people who really did wanted to stay and listen to his long sermon he kept that in place.

The 8:00 service was so popular that within 2 years we had to get a building that was twice the size of the one we were in and the vast majority of them were men, and "business" was so good, not 3 years after we moved, we had a ceremony where we burned the mortgage because we had paid it off.


My point being, at some point, you have to realize who you are targeting, not be stubborn, and adjust accordingly. Rather you are a church, or a horse track.

Like Church, I don't think so many people are against horse racing per say, not like the avg person that doesn't play the races has a personal vendetta against the sport, though I know some do, alot of people aren't even given the opportunity to like horse racing, as they are never even given the opportunity to be exposed to it.

I'm siting here watching the Tampa Bay Devil Rays and the Texas Rangers play today in a stadium that could not have been more than half way full in an elimination playoff game, that started at noon on a freaking Tuesday. Then surprised when "ratings are low"
Interesting the difference in religions. In the Catholic church we rarely have a service that lasts beyond an hour and 45 minutes is the norm. Our previous pastor said after seven to ten minutes no one is paying attention anyway.

Not meaning in any way to disparage your religion, but what do you do for five hours? You can sing a hundred hymns in five hours. You could read William Henry Harrison's inaugural address twice. You can fly from Chicago to Los Angeles in less than five hours. Again, not meaning to be rude, but there is nothing the preacher could say in five hours that he could not say, and say better in two.

[toussaud]

Interesting the difference in religions. In the Catholic church we rarely have a service that lasts beyond an hour and 45 minutes is the norm. Our previous pastor said after seven to ten minutes no one is paying attention anyway.

Not meaning in any way to disparage your religion, but what do you do for five hours? You can sing a hundred hymns in five hours. You could read William Henry Harrison's inaugural address twice. You can fly from Chicago to Los Angeles in less than five hours. Again, not meaning to be rude, but there is nothing the preacher could say in five hours that he could not say, and say better in two.
i assure you that you aren't disparaging my religion, that's a post for a different subject matter

A normal (long) service, you get there, and you have the initial prayer, then you have the "praise" team, which is different from the chior, they are there to sign 2-3 songs that are going to get you "going" so to speak. they are generally more up beat songs or what not.

then you generally have the church announcements and stuff like that, which followed directly by tithing. i went to a big church (about 3k members per service give or take) so this is not done quickly, takes about 10 minutes give or take.

Then you have alter prayer, which is when everyone (supposedly) gets up and goes to the front of the church for one big prayer. Depending on who the pastor is, this can take anywhere from 10 minutes to about 20 in the worst cases. I don't want to say worse that came out wrong but, in the some of the longer cases, you can be standing there for 20 minutes.

doesn't seem like a lot but by now you've gotten through 1 hour of service, and you haven't even gotten to the "meat of the card" yet so to speak

If there are any baptisms or christenings that have to be done, they are generally done here, though as i got older we started doing baptisms between services. Nevertheless, doesn't take all that long Christenings take longer than baptisms because you have to get the entire family up at the front of the church. Still doesn't take more than 5-7 minutes. the thing is when you have a 10-12k member congregation, someone is always getting baptized or christened

now, depending on what Sunday of the month it is, how good your chior is, and thTj\e church you go to in particular, is going to depend on how long the actual chrior sings. If it was around Christmas time you might as well pop a bag of popcorn, because you weren't going anywhere, we were going to go through the entire freaking book. On a regular sunday we would probably do 2-3 upbeat songs, and 2 solo songs. Again, we are talking about a southern baptist church, it's not so much the songs which we could do all of those in about 20 minutes, but then you get to a solo and if the artist did a particular good job and they would have everyone in the congregation worked up you might as well add an addition 10 minutes with the ad libbing.

so by now it's about 1 o clock give or take. The different between the first morning sermon and the late sermon would be thateh first sermon was very business like, he would have a point to make for instance, he would make that point, then he would spend about 10 minutes talking about each sub point. There might be 4-5 sub points, if we could get to the sermon by 9am, we were out the door by 9:50 guaranteed. After the sermon, you basically ask the congregation if anyone wants to be saved, and does anyone want to become am ember of the church, then you pray and go home unless it's first Sunday which then you take communion.

the long sermon,, there was no bullet list. there were no points. he's just going to talk to you until you get tired. An example would be the sermon in general for both services might Matthew 5:3-12 which everyone knows are the Beatitudes. You can easily break that up into 8 6-7 minute sub points. But if you stayed for the longer sermon, you start talking about for instance, blessed are the merciful for they shall obtain mercy, then 10 minutes later he's talking about mercy in general and different points in the bible,, then 20 minutes later he's talking about having mercy upon your enemies because.etc.. it just goes and on, and usually it's not that broken down

Then you have the people who would say the morning sermon was just the "appitiser" for the long sermon :smh:


vAgain, not meaning to be rude, but there is nothing the preacher could say in five hours that he could not say, and say better in two.

I agree wholeheartedly. Somewhere in the southern baptist community the idea seemed to be that the longer you stayed in church the more you loved god which as we know, just isn't the case. As you say at a point, it just shuts off, and in today's world,l the church, the southern bapist church had to adapt to survive. Unless you go to some real old school southern baptist churches you don't see that anymore. more are an hour and a half, an hour 45 tops. Get in, get out, get on with your life.

That's actually a pretty good analogy if you sit back and think about it. The southern baptist congregation, took a stand and said look, just because mi don't want to sit in church all day long, does not mean i don't love god, and you can't shame me and make me feel otherwise, or i will find a better option. the stubborn churches folded, the smarter ones, like the one i grew up in, adapted. f you sit back and think about it, that's really not that much different than a fan saying just because i do other things outside of horse racing (lol like I don't know a JOB), just because i like other sports, doesn't mean i don't love horse racing, and i'm not the one in the wrong for saying that you should try to be more accommodating.

Like church there will always be people, like my grandmother, who long for the "old days" and who seek out churches that have the old "powerful" sermons that she misses.. but this is not the avg churchgoer, just like the guy who is at suffolk downs on a Tuesday, isn't the avg person that horse racing is trying to target (do not mistake the word target for current client). The church understood that if you wanted to get younger couples who were more open minded (and just putting it out there, more disposable income to tithe) who had things to offer the church, you had to do things to accommodate them. Now the church I grew up in is chalk full of professionals and they are buying out houses next to the building and tearing them down to expand.

That preacher is long gone and the last time i went to church to see my sister baptized, we got to church at 11am and i was at home at 1pm.

[olddaddy]

I never really understood why there is so much racing during the early afternoon on weekdays. Yea its good for the older players that are retired but not for the general population who is at work. I think like 5pm post times make sense during the week and anytime between noon and 3pm on weekends, depending on the time of year.