View Full Version : Acclimation is going to be my BC Turf pick
toussaud
10-02-2011, 05:39 PM
if the ground is firm.
with Pval up, they are going to take the lead, dictate the pace, with all of those euros who aren't used to running that fast early on, and they aren't going to be able to catch him and if they do, they would have damn well earned it.
I don't think he's "better" per say, but the racing style just is not a good fit for horses like workforce.
so you think is pretty versatile as well and has speed that would be my concern, but i really like what they have done with Acclimation
if the ground is firm.
with Pval up, they are going to take the lead, dictate the pace, with all of those euros who aren't used to running that fast early on, and they aren't going to be able to catch him and if they do, they would have damn well earned it.
I don't think he's "better" per say, but the racing style just is not a good fit for horses like workforce.
so you think is pretty versatile as well and has speed that would be my concern, but i really like what they have done with Acclimation
A common misconception is that the pace is generally slower on turf than it is here. It simply isn't true as a general rule.
I pretty much just concede the Turf and the Mile to Euors.
toussaud
10-02-2011, 09:42 PM
A common misconception is that the pace is generally slower on turf than it is here. It simply isn't true as a general rule.
the misconception that you have is that acclimation is going to set a "general" turf pace. he isn't.
I like him because he is going to put pressure on all the other horses and take them out of their comfort zone.
turninforhome10
10-02-2011, 10:01 PM
I believe owner Bud Johnston owner of Old English Rancho said
"We watched the Arc over the weekend and were not really impressed with the race".
Take that for whatever it is worth as his opinions are not just "some guy"
Old English Rancho has been pretty successful for some time.
the misconception that you have is that acclimation is going to set a "general" turf pace. he isn't.
I like him because he is going to put pressure on all the other horses and take them out of their comfort zone.
I know how he runs. I also know he'll get drowned by any halfway decent Euro.
Cardus
10-02-2011, 10:38 PM
if the ground is firm.
with Pval up, they are going to take the lead, dictate the pace, with all of those euros who aren't used to running that fast early on, and they aren't going to be able to catch him and if they do, they would have damn well earned it.
I don't think he's "better" per say, but the racing style just is not a good fit for horses like workforce.
so you think is pretty versatile as well and has speed that would be my concern, but i really like what they have done with Acclimation
Watch today's Arc, per say, and tell me that the pacesetter was not running fast early on.
I like what they have done with Acclimation, per say, but I think that your theory is wrong.
iceknight
10-02-2011, 10:41 PM
Watch today's Arc, per say, and tell me that the pacesetter was not running fast early on.
I like what they have done with Acclimation, per say, but I think that your theory is wrong.
Guys, we can settle the debate on the track.. er I mean off the track in the betting pools !!
Although Acclamation runs well on turf, did nt he also run well on synthetic in the Pacific classic? He had a boost left in the end to fend off Twirling Candy back then.. now on turf, I m not sure how it will pan out if Dane dream/So you Think runs and the turf is fast..
Anyways, speaking about Euros.. does anyone know if Frankel will run any 1 milers in US?
the misconception that you have is that acclimation is going to set a "general" turf pace. he isn't.
I like him because he is going to put pressure on all the other horses and take them out of their comfort zone.
Acclimation doesn't really run all the fast early on, just faster than most of our bad turfers. He is a very good, consistent horse that isn't good enough to win the Turf.
toussaud
10-02-2011, 10:56 PM
Acclimation doesn't really run all the fast early on, just faster than most of our bad turfers. He is a very good, consistent horse that isn't good enough to win the Turf.
he just held off champ who lost to dangerous midge by about 2 lengths in the BC turf and came in 2nd place, yet can't win the turf.
keep thinking he can't win, better odds for me. the rush to slobber all over these euros every year, #dontgetit
next thing you i know you are going to tell me that Champ Peagsus can't compete in the breeders cup turf, despite the fact he damn near won it last year.'
'
I am a huge so you think fan, and that's who i would actually root to win the race, but Acclimation is white hot right now, pval can get a front running horse home better than anyone.. only question i have about him is running outside California.
Some_One
10-02-2011, 11:25 PM
he just held off champ who lost to dangerous midge by about 2 lengths in the BC turf and came in 2nd place, yet can't win the turf.
keep thinking he can't win, better odds for me. the rush to slobber all over these euros every year, #dontgetit
next thing you i know you are going to tell me that Champ Peagsus can't compete in the breeders cup turf, despite the fact he damn near won it last year.'
'
I am a huge so you think fan, and that's who i would actually root to win the race, but Acclimation is white hot right now, pval can get a front running horse home better than anyone.. only question i have about him is running outside California.
How many races have you watched on the turf at CD? anyone can see that's a completely different turf course (CD - golf's US Open deep rough type grass, SA - putting green type grass), even last year when the turf was labelled firm, underneath it was on the soft side. If Daredream comes for the turf, they ain't beating her, the only thing going for the Americans is that the British Champions day is seeming to take a couple of horses that would use to come in the past.
toussaud
10-02-2011, 11:38 PM
How many races have you watched on the turf at CD? anyone can see that's a completely different turf course (CD - golf's US Open deep rough type grass, SA - putting green type grass), even last year when the turf was labelled firm, underneath it was on the soft side. If Daredream comes for the turf, they ain't beating her, the only thing going for the Americans is that the British Champions day is seeming to take a couple of horses that would use to come in the past.
i probably watch more turf races than anyone here outside of GM10 as that's all i pretty much play are turf races. I am very familiar with the turf course at CD.
It's a very fair track, i can name boat loads of front running winners on that turf course. I've watched inca king win too many races on the lead on that track. Orathdox's front running win in the american turf, hell just this year get stormy won wire to wire the race before the derby.
Cardus
10-02-2011, 11:40 PM
i probably watch more turf races than anyone here outside of GM10 as that's all i pretty much play are turf races. I am very familiar with the turf course at CD.
It's a very fair track, i can name boat loads of front running winners on that turf course. I've watched inca king win too many races on the lead on that track. Orathdox's front running win in the american turf, hell just this year get stormy won wire to wire the race before the derby.
You keep splendid company.
Some_One
10-03-2011, 12:05 AM
i probably watch more turf races than anyone here outside of GM10 as that's all i pretty much play are turf races. I am very familiar with the turf course at CD.
It's a very fair track, i can name boat loads of front running winners on that turf course. I've watched inca king win too many races on the lead on that track. Orathdox's front running win in the american turf, hell just this year get stormy won wire to wire the race before the derby.
Yes front runners can win on that course, but what I am saying is that you can't project the form on one style of course to another, I would be more confident of Kee or Wo turf form carrying over (and to a lesser extent Belmont). Those are similar turf surfaces.
http://www.drf.com/news/acclamation-wont-race-again-2011-due-foot-problem
the little guy
10-11-2011, 06:11 PM
http://www.drf.com/news/acclamation-wont-race-again-2011-due-foot-problem
I guess his owner's saw someone's opinion here and realized he had zero chance in the BC.
Spalding No!
10-11-2011, 06:47 PM
I guess his owner's saw someone's opinion here and realized he had zero chance in the BC.
That leaves us the obvious alternative in Champ Pegasus. As has been said elsewhere, he almost beat (not really) listed stakes horse Dangerous Midge last year in one of the better editions of the BC Turf we've seen in a long time.
In fact, subsequently he dusted Dangerous Midge in the Dubai Sheema Classic this year, coming home 12th to the former's 14th, so he's still improving.
toussaud
10-11-2011, 06:50 PM
That leaves us the obvious alternative in Champ Pegasus. As has been said elsewhere, he almost beat (not really) listed stakes horse Dangerous Midge last year in one of the better editions of the BC Turf we've seen in a long time.
In fact, subsequently he dusted Dangerous Midge in the Dubai Sheema Classic this year, coming home 12th to the former's 14th, so he's still improving.
i don't think he's as good as he was last year. Both him and bourbon bay are shells of what they were last year. You can throw the usual QT in there as well. I don't even know where he is anymore.
probably end up going with one of the euros now, though i wouldn't completely toss out Ramsey's horse that almost beat cape blanco of the ground comes off soft
Spalding No!
10-11-2011, 07:05 PM
probably end up going with one of the euros now, though i wouldn't completely toss out Ramsey's horse that almost beat cape blanco of the ground comes off soft
Didn't see the Turf Classic, but if Dean's Kitten or similar Ramsey clone got close to Cape Blanco, I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that Cape Blanco busted his knee with over a half-mile left to run.
I have no clue who is running, but considering the American contingent as a whole throughout the year, I'd say St. Nicholas Abbey would have to be merely 75% of the horse he was in the spring to have a big say in the outcome.
toussaud
10-11-2011, 07:10 PM
Didn't see the Turf Classic, but if Dean's Kitten or similar Ramsey clone got close to Cape Blanco, I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that Cape Blanco busted his knee with over a half-mile left to run.
I have no clue who is running, but considering the American contingent as a whole throughout the year, I'd say St. Nicholas Abbey would have to be merely 75% of the horse he was in the spring to have a big say in the outcome.
i don't think he really wants 12F. he hasn't come close to his 2YO form when they were running short.
all the big names really aren't coming, and so you think is most likely going to run in the classic, even if he didn't I don't think 12F is his best trip I think 10F is.
it depends on the ground. if it's soft ground i am going to take a shot like i did in 07 with Shamdinan.
Spalding No!
10-11-2011, 07:25 PM
i don't think he really wants 12F. he hasn't come close to his 2YO form when they were running short.
His two wins this year were at 13f and 12f, respectively.
toussaud
10-11-2011, 07:28 PM
His two wins this year were at 13f and 12f, respectively.
but not at what i would call the top class of racing.
everyone falls into the misconception that "as long as they are european they can come over here and run our horses into the ground" which just is not true. we have turf horses better than SNA. Workforce, so you think, that's a different story.
my (maybe not so) humble opinion on the matter.
The turf is usually a race i try to take a shot in anyway because everyone always hammers euros.
Throw in the fact that Coolmore/A O'brien has an abysmal Breeders cup of 4 out of 63... just going to have to beat me.
Spalding No!
10-11-2011, 07:35 PM
but not at what i would call the top class of racing.
The Coronation Cup is not at the top class level?
everyone falls into the misconception that "as long as they are european they can come over here and run our horses into the ground" which just is not true. we have turf horses better than SNA. Workforce, so you think, that's a different story.
Where did Cape Blanco fit in that pantheon?
The turf is usually a race i try to take a shot in anyway because everyone always hammers euros.
Europeans have won the majority of BC Turfs. Most of "our" horses that won (Theatrical, Fraise, Northern Spur, Kotashaan, etc.) were ex-Euros themselves.
nearco
10-11-2011, 07:44 PM
Originally Posted by toussaud
i don't think he really wants 12F. he hasn't come close to his 2YO form when they were running short.
His two wins this year were at 13f and 12f, respectively.
Not only that, but the talk coming out of Ballydoyle is that they are grooming him to be their "Cup" horse (stayer) for next year, a al Fame and Glory this year and Yeats before him. They must obviously think he has no problem staying.
toussaud
10-11-2011, 10:07 PM
as stated with the 4 out of 63 mark by O'brien, I really don't give a damn what he comes out and says about anything.
Even if I were to come out and bet on a euro, it most certainty wouldn't be anything they send out.
I wouldn't be surprised if Acclamation shows up in the Dubai WC.
As for the Turf, I'm hoping Arctic Cosmos runs. His performance at Woodbine this Sunday should give us a major hint.
Finally, the pace in European races is indeed not that slow. It's often faster than in the US.
I wouldn't be surprised if Acclamation shows up in the Dubai WC.
As for the Turf, I'm hoping Arctic Cosmos runs. His performance at Woodbine this Sunday should give us a major hint.
Finally, the pace in European races is indeed not that slow. It's often faster than in the US.
Dubai WC? I guess somebody needs to run last.
Not many runners have tried the Woodbine/BC double, and those that have done it haven't fared very well.
Agree about the pace, said it many times here before.
PhantomOnTour
10-12-2011, 09:18 AM
I guess his owner's saw someone's opinion here and realized he had zero chance in the BC.
Taking a shot at someone else while using bad spelling...priceless. It is true, the silliness just never ends.
Taking a shot at someone else while using bad spelling...priceless. It is true, the silliness just never ends.
That is considered grammar, not spelling.
Valuist
10-12-2011, 09:40 AM
Step one in handicapping the BC Turf, Mile, Turf Juvenile, Filly Turf Juvenile and the Filly/Mare Distaff Turf: eliminate all US based horses.
Dubai WC? I guess somebody needs to run last.
Not many runners have tried the Woodbine/BC double, and those that have done it haven't faired very well.
Agree about the pace, said it many times here before.
Why would he be last. He's got the right profile to be a strong player. Older horse, multiple grade 1 winner, good tactical speed, handles the surface, stays the trip.
Why would he be last. He's got the right profile to be a strong player. Older horse, multiple grade 1 winner, good tactical speed, handles the surface, stays the trip.
He won't be ready after this break in my opinion. I don't think he is much of a contender anyway. I think the Delmar race was weak.
He won't be ready after this break in my opinion. I don't think he is much of a contender anyway. I think the Delmar race was weak.
It's not just Del Mar, he's won five on the trot now, always earning respectable numbers. It's mainly his running style that appeals to me. Perfect for Meydan tapeta imo. It's hard to say whether he'll be ready or not, it's not clear yet how serious the problem is.
NTamm1215
10-13-2011, 05:36 PM
Step one in handicapping the BC Turf, Mile, Turf Juvenile, Filly Turf Juvenile and the Filly/Mare Distaff Turf: eliminate all US based horses.
Yes, this would have helped you hit...two out of five races last year. Sounds like a perfect plan.
detective
10-16-2011, 11:19 AM
Hi,
I like what you have to say about Acclimation and it's always fun to be behind a horse on big race days. I remember Bucks Boy going wire to wire in the Breeders Cup Turf so it can be done. But please remember last year when Champ Pegasus had a easy lead and slowed the pace way down. I think it was close to a 116... Frankie knew Champ Pegasus was the lone speed so he sat behind Champ Pegasus on Dangerous Midge and just waited and over took Champ Pegasus to win the race. So if the folks across the pond bring over a great horse I would not bet the farm on Acclimation. Acclimation's last Turf race at Santa Anita was great! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMMXAi34ZWg And it showed that he does not have to be on the front end to win.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oSiT56XVP4
Race: 10 Win Place Show
1st 8 Dangerous Midge 19.00 9.80 5.20 2nd 1 Champ Pegasus
9.00 4.80 3rd 7 Behkabad (FR)
2.40 4th 2 Winchester
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