Breeders Cup Pick-5 Conso Payout a MUST!

[BombsAway Bob]

The Breeders Cup has a RARE opportunity to create a significant new fan base this year.
The B.C. has announced they will offer a $.50 Pick-5 both Breeders Cup Days.
In order to allow MORE new/novice bettors a chance to cash tickets,
the Breeders Cup should ABSOLUTELY offer a 4-of-5 conso payout on the new bet (ideally with a 15% Takeout).
It would allow thousands of bettors who would otherwise throw away losing tickets
a chance to break even or even make a little money, encouraging future play!
Pools & Field sizes will be large, & the $2 Pick-6 is still there for the big bankroll
players looking for a lifetime score! This is a HUGE CHANCE to make a positive
impression on horseplayers that only play on Triple Crown & Breeders Cup days.
State Lotteries survive on the dream of a BIG SCORE, but they are
SMART enough to realize that allowing conso payout hits creates
churn & keep people coming back playing. For Example,
5-of-5 in $1Mass.Cash pays $100,000... 4-of-5 conso pays $250...
i hit Four of Five... it hurt, but it paid for a day trip to Foxwoods!

[OTM Al]

I know your intentions are good here, but the Pick 5 is on the first five races of the day. On day one that includes exactly 1 BC race. On day 2 there are 3 BC races as part, but 2 of them are considered of such a quality that they won't appear on regular TV. Sorry, but even if I played this bet, I don't, I couldn't get very excited about it's new fan potential.

[Cardus]

Are new fans likely to skip the wading pool and dive into the deep end?

Would a consolation payoff on a $.50 Pick 5 discourage experienced players who make multi-race wagers?

[Some_One]

Simple, if you don't like the terms, don't play it, no one is forcing you to.

[BombsAway Bob]

Simple, if you don't like the terms, don't play it, no one is forcing you to.
this isn't about ME, this is about having a bet players with a small bankroll
can put $20-$40 into, & have at least a punters chance of cashing. It's a
day many new or casual players are betting, with pools more than big
enough to offer a 4-of-5 conso.,a conso that will bring many casual
bettors back to try again. Your comment sounds like something a track
owner would say.

[OTM Al]

this isn't about ME, this is about having a bet players with a small bankroll
can put $20-$40 into, & have at least a punters chance of cashing. It's a
day many new or casual players are betting, with pools more than big
enough to offer a 4-of-5 conso.,a conso that will bring many casual
bettors back to try again. Your comment sounds like something a track
owner would say.

His comment sounds like something a smart player should live by. Players with a small bankroll should avoid bets like this. $20 (well, $16) gets you all of 2 horses per race. A bad bet in my book, so your logic just reinforces my opinion this bet is little more than a scratchoff ticket for the masses.

[BombsAway Bob]

His comment sounds like something a smart player should live by. Players with a small bankroll should avoid bets like this. $20 (well, $16) gets you all of 2 horses per race. A bad bet in my book, so your logic just reinforces my opinion this bet is little more than a scratchoff ticket for the masses.
Uh, Al, in case you didn't notice, scratchoff business is pretty good.
Sadly racing is spiraling down to a point where soon only "Smart Players"
remain playing, albeit with 10% less in the pool to gamble over every year.

[affirmedny]

this isn't about ME, this is about having a bet players with a small bankroll
can put $20-$40 into, & have at least a punters chance of cashing. It's a
day many new or casual players are betting, with pools more than big
enough to offer a 4-of-5 conso.,a conso that will bring many casual
bettors back to try again. Your comment sounds like something a track
owner would say.

Bob, you are spot on, it's a similar concept to lower takeout. The more money returned to the small guys, the more likely they are to stay in the game. I don't know why this (and fractional betting as well) irks so many people, it's just common sense.

[OTM Al]

Uh, Al, in case you didn't notice, scratchoff business is pretty good.
Sadly racing is spiraling down to a point where soon only "Smart Players"
remain playing, albeit with 10% less in the pool to gamble over every year.

Didn't say it wasn't popular. Just saying what a silly statement about the straw man known as track ownership you made and that I don't consider this P5 a real value bet for a small or new player. It looks easy and cheap, but it isn't.

[OTM Al]

Bob, you are spot on, it's a similar concept to lower takeout. The more money returned to the small guys, the more likely they are to stay in the game. I don't know why this (and fractional betting as well) irks so many people, it's just common sense.

Except the money on these things only return to a very small number of players, many of which who are not going to be small guys. Bets like this, even at fractional values will bust out small players faster than anything else. They are just like hitting the max button on a nickle slot. It isn't all that cheap in the end and your money goes away fast.

Win, place, doubles or exactas should be the limit of a new or small player, and maybe not even those last two. Much better chance to win a little and thus a much better chance they would want to come back.

[BombsAway Bob]

Except the money on these things only return to a very small number of players, many of which who are not going to be small guys. Bets like this, even at fractional values will bust out small players faster than anything else. They are just like hitting the max button on a nickle slot. It isn't all that cheap in the end and your money goes away fast.

Win, place, doubles or exactas should be the limit of a new or small player, and maybe not even those last two. Much better chance to win a little and thus a much better chance they would want to come back.
Everything you & Some One have stated is 100% True,& i agree.

THAT BEING SAID, there WILL be a Pick-5 offered, & i think that
many more small casual bettors stand a chance of cashing the bet
and trying again if there is a 4-of-5 Conso. That's all i am saying....

[davew]

I am curious about your consolation suggestion


what percentage of pool (after take-out) should go to 5/5 and to 4/5


if there are 100 winners on 5/5
how many consol winners would you expect? 1000?

[tanner12oz]

Everything you & Some One have stated is 100% True,& i agree.

THAT BEING SAID, there WILL be a Pick-5 offered, & i think that
many more small casual bettors stand a chance of cashing the bet
and trying again if there is a 4-of-5 Conso. That's all i am saying....

to be perfectly honest i do not want others to "stand a chance at cashing the bet"...if they do then that steals money away from me...let them dump $20 bills into a pool in which they have no chance of winning...it's fine by me. it's not racing position to assist people in making smart money management decisions

[OTM Al]

Everything you & Some One have stated is 100% True,& i agree.

THAT BEING SAID, there WILL be a Pick-5 offered, & i think that
many more small casual bettors stand a chance of cashing the bet
and trying again if there is a 4-of-5 Conso. That's all i am saying....

Then perhaps you should also advocate for consos on win bets as certainly small casual bettors will have a better chance of cashing the bet. Supers are really hard too, so maybe they should pay 3 of 4 as well. Makes just as much sense as what you are saying.

I still believe these low denomination, low take P5s are a complete scam to suck you in to playing races in other pools you have no business playing and have yet to see an argument to make me think otherwise. You want to play them, that's cool, but my money goes elsewhere.

[point given]

Here are the minimums for the BC. Note that there are rolling pick 3s with a 50 cent minimum. Small players would be better served by skipping the p5 and bet into these thereby making the argument of a consso payout irrelevent it would seem to me.

$0.10 Superfecta -- all races .

$0.50 Trifecta -- all races .

$0.50 Pick-Three -- all races .

$0.50 Pick-4 -- Fri 3, 7; Sun. 4, 8 .

$0.50 Pick-5 -- Fri and Sat. 1-5 .

$1.00 Double -- all races .

$1.00 Super Hi 5 -- Fri 10; Sat 11 .

$2.00 Win/Place/Show -- all races .

$2.00 Pick-6 -- Fri 5-10; Sat 6-11

[Cardus]

Bob, you are spot on, it's a similar concept to lower takeout. The more money returned to the small guys, the more likely they are to stay in the game. I don't know why this (and fractional betting as well) irks so many people, it's just common sense.

No, Bob is not "spot on" if he asserts that this Pick 5 will "create a significant new fan base".

New fans will most likely not -- or should not, if logic prevails -- engage in this wager.

[affirmedny]

No, Bob is not "spot on" if he asserts that this Pick 5 will "create a significant new fan base".

New fans will most likely not -- or should not, if logic prevails -- engage in this wager.

You guys don't get it, I don't like the bet, I don't even bet horizontal wagers (handicapping 3 out of 4 races perfectly and getting nothing in return is not my idea of good gambling, if it's yours mazeltov), and forget the new fan part. I am however in favor of ANYTHING that puts more money back in the hands of the player whether it be lower takeout, consos, or fractional betting giving them the opportunity to hit a bet with higher odds than they could afford at a higher minimum. And Bob's statement that the player who gets SOMETHING back for hitting 4 out of 5 being more likely to play again is the part that's spot on.

[BombsAway Bob]

I am curious about your consolation suggestion


what percentage of pool (after take-out) should go to 5/5 and to 4/5

if there are 100 winners on 5/5
how many consol winners would you expect? 1000?
actually a Conso Payout isn't a suggestion, it's done at
some tracks that offer the bet. i first played it last year
at Gulfstream, & the 4-of-5 Conso turned several days
into break-even or small profit days, rather than total loss.
in addition to Gulfstream, Hollywood, Fairplex,
& the Coming Hawthorne meet have 4-of-5 consos.

[point given]

actually a Conso Payout isn't a suggestion, it's done at
some tracks that offer the bet. i first played it last year
at Gulfstream, & the 4-of-5 Conso turned several days
into break-even or small profit days, rather than total loss.
in addition to Gulfstream, Hollywood, Fairplex,
& the Coming Hawthorne meet have 4-of-5 consos.

QUOTE=BombsAway Bob

.....this isn't about ME, this is about having a bet players with a small bankrollcan put $20-$40 into, & have at least a punters chance of cashing

Not about me, eh ? :eek: :lol:

[BombsAway Bob]

QUOTE=BombsAway Bob

.....this isn't about ME, this is about having a bet players with a small bankrollcan put $20-$40 into, & have at least a punters chance of cashing

Not about me, eh ? :eek: :lol:
No, Columbo, it's not about me... i played Del Mar w/no conso.
i'm not asking Santa Anita to offer P5 Conso,& i'll play that...
the reason i know the conso works is because i played the Bet
for an entire meet.
When you have a Point Given on the wager, let me know.
Peace. :kiss:

[point given]

Here is my Point Given on small bankroll players playing the P5 (as previously posted). Easy - play the 50 cent rolling p3s in the BC. P5 's are too hard to hit on a small ticket especially in super contentious large field BC races. Conso payouts for 4 of 5 on a P5 is not the solution for small players the simpler easier to hit 50 cent p3 is and I was glad to see them do it, this will keep the churn going much more than a single 4 of 5 conso p5 payoff IMHO:kiss: :kiss:

Here are the minimums for the BC. Note that there are rolling pick 3s with a 50 cent minimum. Small pIlayers would be better served by skipping the p5 and bet into these thereby making the argument of a consso payout irrelevent it would seem to me.

$0.10 Superfecta -- all races .

$0.50 Trifecta -- all races .

$0.50 Pick-Three -- all races .

$0.50 Pick-4 -- Fri 3, 7; Sun. 4, 8 .

$0.50 Pick-5 -- Fri and Sat. 1-5 .

$1.00 Double -- all races .

$1.00 Super Hi 5 -- Fri 10; Sat 11 .

$2.00 Win/Place/Show -- all races .

$2.00 Pick-6 -- Fri 5-10; Sat 6-11

[OTM Al]

Let's face it. It's pari-mutuel wagering. Anyone that says it's not about them when wanting new players to come in and stay in the game is either lying, likes to give away money, or doesn't understand how pari-mutuel wagering works. New and more players = more money available for ME.

[tanner12oz]

they call it a pick 5 for a reason.....

i want the pool to be as challenging and impossible to hit as possible...why? because i know i have the potential to bring it home.