Joe Woodward Heads To Penn National

[Shemp Howard]

The nation's 2nd leading trainer, in # of winners, heads to Grantville. Bad news for those stables hoping for easier pickings come the fall. Especially those with winning %'s under 6 percent and running horses for prices far in excess of what they are worth. The "Bubble" at Pen is about tho burst.

[Mineshaft]

Woodward wins races and claims a bunch that cant make the people at Penn too happy

[Stillriledup]

Not sure what Turfway's reasoning is to kick out a guy with a bunch of horses. I thought Turfway was in the horse racing business, but i guess they're in the moral police business instead.

[Tom]

Read the article on the homepage here.
He was waging a childish war wit the state vet and entering and scratching horses for no reason. The final straw was he scratched 5 out of the same race.
No place for children at the track. Only a s*** hole of a track like Penn would probably have him. Funny he chose that track,though........

Woodard continued to enter horses and scratch them in protest. According to the Turfway racing office, 18 Woodard horses were scratched from Sept. 8-17. Thirteen were scratched for “no reason,....”


http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/65075/woodard-horses-ordered-to-vacate-turfway-park#ixzz1YGJjzHcD

[PaceAdvantage]

Especially those with winning %'s under 6 percent and running horses for prices far in excess of what they are worth.Wow man, you just never let up, do you?

[proximity]

The "Bubble" at Pen is about tho burst.

and fewer laughs will be shared by the gap!! :( :lol:

[duncan04]

Not sure what Turfway's reasoning is to kick out a guy with a bunch of horses. I thought Turfway was in the horse racing business, but i guess they're in the moral police business instead.

Here you go: from the drf.com article

Turfway president Bob Elliston said he requested the stable to leave the premises shortly before the start of the evening card after he learned of the scratches. Hays and Woodard also scratched their previous nine scheduled starters last week at Turfway.

Elliston said he asked the Turfway stewards “to impose the appropriate penalties for their breaking the rules” of scratching their horses without just cause and to “have the case fully adjudicated.”

Woodard said Saturday morning he was sending the string of horses to Penn National and that he was unable to comment further because of the legal implications.

Hays and Woodard say they have not been treated fairly by Dr. Bryce Peckham, the chief racing veterinarian in Kentucky. While further legal maneuvering can be expected as this case unfolds, Elliston said: “Turfway Park has nothing to do with their beef with the state vet.”

[duncan04]

Read the article on the homepage here.
He was waging a childish war wit the state vet and entering and scratching horses for no reason. The final straw was he scratched 5 out of the same race.
No place for children at the track. Only a s*** hole of a track like Penn would probably have him. Funny he chose that track,though........



http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/65075/woodard-horses-ordered-to-vacate-turfway-park#ixzz1YGJjzHcD


He will fit right in with Stephanie Beattie!! :rolleyes:

[Robert Goren]

Turfway's loss, Penn National's gain.:rolleyes:

[proximity]

He will fit right in with Stephanie Beattie!! :rolleyes:

:lol: :lol:

if she's not too busy sharing laughs with shemp's boy:rolleyes: , maybe she'll warn our new friend about the fbi??

[BMustang]

Good Ridance!!!!

I've considered them the ruination of our local racing at River Downs for the past few years now.

I realize that we are plagued with short fields as is, but with Hays/Woodard (actually Danton Hays, who seems to be a good guy) entering horses that win at ridiculously short prices on a regular basis, there is no attraction to our product whatsoever. River Downs has become known as the home of the $15 Pick Three.

[duncan04]

Good Ridance!!!!

I've considered them the ruination of our local racing at River Downs for the past few years now.

I realize that we are plagued with short fields as is, but with Hays/Woodard (actually Danton Hays, who seems to be a good guy) entering horses that win at ridiculously short prices on a regular basis, there is no attraction to our product whatsoever. River Downs has become known as the home of the $15 Pick Three.

Agree with you totally. He was Perry Ouzts bread and butter but Ouzts will continue to do well. He is a nice guy and will always give a good ride!

[BMustang]

How in the world will Perry Outz ever win 6,000 races if Hays/Woodard aren't there to put him on "merry-go-round winners." He may actually have to compete on a level playing field with the rest of the jockey colony.

Of course, the River will welcome them all back with open arms and Perry can win the riding title by +50 wins again without ever actually having to actually ride/compete - pretty sweet deal.

Best arrangement since Milord rode for Marvin Warner!

[Mineshaft]

Jock agents are burning up Woodward's phone

[therussmeister]

Good Ridance!!!!

I've considered them the ruination of our local racing at River Downs for the past few years now.

I realize that we are plagued with short fields as is, but with Hays/Woodard (actually Danton Hays, who seems to be a good guy) entering horses that win at ridiculously short prices on a regular basis, there is no attraction to our product whatsoever. River Downs has become known as the home of the $15 Pick Three.
When Frank Calabrese said he was leaving Arlington for Calder, an Arlington employee, (I don't remember who), said maybe it would mean bigger fields because owners were tired of bumping up against Calabrese horses every time they entered a horse.

Guess what? Bigger fields at Arlington without Calabrese. There is correlation, but I have no idea if there is causation.

[Mineshaft]

when does this track open back up theres some trainers there i want to follow very closely?

[TonyK@HSH]

when does this track open back up theres some trainers there i want to follow very closely?

First night of racing is Friday, sept 23rd

[Shemp Howard]

when does this track open back up theres some trainers there i want to follow very closely?

Following trainers at Penn is a tough proposition. Trust me, I know. I was there when that dump opened and Rudy Turcotte was the leading jockey. Rudy had to ride Sundays at Dover Downs to try and make ends meet.

[5k-claim]

Jock agents are burning up Woodward's phoneBob's?

[Shemp Howard]

Bob's?


Ha ha ha. The funniest post of the Millenium!!!!!!

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[proximity]

First night of racing is Friday, sept 23rd

are you going to be there??

i might need to borrow some dinero for the slots.:blush:

[Mineshaft]

Bob's?




Thats some funny chit 5k-claim

[Valuist]

When Frank Calabrese said he was leaving Arlington for Calder, an Arlington employee, (I don't remember who), said maybe it would mean bigger fields because owners were tired of bumping up against Calabrese horses every time they entered a horse.

Guess what? Bigger fields at Arlington without Calabrese. There is correlation, but I have no idea if there is causation.

Agreed. Calabrese was winning something like over 40% last year. Certainly haven't missed him this year. The guy would habitually win and drop, as feeding his ego surpassed the fact his horses could get claimed away at less than fair value.

[Pine Tree Lane]

He will fit right in with Stephanie Beattie!! :rolleyes:

Brings back the glory days of Buddy Jacobsen, Frank Martin and Johnny Campo claiming wars.

[Mineshaft]

It wont be too bad i dont think he will claim more than Gill did when he was there.

[5k-claim]

Thats some funny chit 5k-claimIt is just that I run at Turfway, so I have seen Woodard's name printed on overnights, entries, charts, etc. about 500 times or more. So even the title of this thread sort of jumped out at me and made me chuckle when I saw "Woodward", that's all...

Not sure I appreciate the move of scratching all of their horses minutes before first post in terms of the track or handicappers/bettors. It was a good night to be another trainer, though. Shorter fields and some good trainer/jockey competition gone. Too bad I wasn't running that night.

.

[duncan04]

It is just that I run at Turfway, so I have seen Woodard's name printed on overnights, entries, charts, etc. about 500 times or more. So even the title of this thread sort of jumped out at me and made me chuckle when I saw "Woodward", that's all...

.


As a Turfway regular Ive seen Woodard's name everywhere too. However I didnt catch the typo in the thread title! lol :eek:

[TonyK@HSH]

are you going to be there??

i might need to borrow some dinero for the slots.:blush:


I will b at Pen on Friday- feel free to stop by the table anytime

[forced89]

Especially those with winning %'s under 6 percent and running horses for prices far in excess of what they are worth.

I've been told that your favorite guy has two of the best 2 yo fillies on the grounds and that both are getting ready to pop!

[Mineshaft]

I've been told that your favorite guy has two of the best 2 yo fillies on the grounds and that both are getting ready to pop!





He ran one of them and the horse came up short. Only one 5 furlong work and the mo-mo decides to enter a short horse. His trainer needs to take lessons from Todd who already has given his filly (4) 5 furlong works.

[Shemp Howard]

I've been told that your favorite guy has two of the best 2 yo fillies on the grounds and that both are getting ready to pop!

Most likely both will run as an entry in the Breeder's Cup 2yo Juvenile Filly Turf. They are that good. Ramon Dominguez and Johnny Velasquez are fighting over which one rides which.

[mistergee]

is this the same guy who has now been entering horses at CRC?

[Citation1947]

It wont be too bad i dont think he will claim more than Gill did when he was there.


Sad thing is, Gill will most likely be back there too very soon running horses under some other name as he is currently, quietly maneuvering players back into position at Elk Creek.

[proximity]

at this point (as a player) i'd almost like to see jamie ness come back to pen. :eek:

with stephanie beattie and wells split up and woodard arriving on the scene, the presence of one more supertrainer could really lead to some competition at the top of the trainer standings.

[Mineshaft]

at this point (as a player) i'd almost like to see jamie ness come back to pen. :eek:

with stephanie beattie and wells split up and woodard arriving on the scene, the presence of one more supertrainer could really lead to some competition at the top of the trainer standings.





when did Ness leave?

[Mineshaft]

is this the same guy who has now been entering horses at CRC?





No Woodward runs at Turfway,Mountaineer, Presque Isle, Beulah. Mostly at midwest tracks and east coast tracks but nothing at Calder

[speed]

No Woodward runs at Turfway,Mountaineer, Presque Isle, Beulah. Mostly at midwest tracks and east coast tracks but nothing at Calder
They have been running a small stable at Calder for a few weeks.

[Mineshaft]

They have been running a small stable at Calder for a few weeks.




Damn i didnt know that thanks for the update. I looked at the entries for this week at Calder and didnt see anything in for them thats why i said i dont think they stable at Calder.

[Valuist]

First Calabrese goes to Calder and now Hays? Real fun for the claiming trainers down there.... all they need now is Michael Gill.

[Mineshaft]

First Calabrese goes to Calder and now Hays? Real fun for the claiming trainers down there.... all they need now is Michael Gill.




If im another trainer i would welcome trainers that have owners that claim

[Mineshaft]

Most likely both will run as an entry in the Breeder's Cup 2yo Juvenile Filly Turf. They are that good. Ramon Dominguez and Johnny Velasquez are fighting over which one rides which.





Ramon will take the better horse they are in love with Ramon.

[proximity]

when did Ness leave?

shortly after the state police arrived!! :)

[Shemp Howard]

Next thing we know, Burton K. Sipp will slip in to Pen, parrots and all.

[proximity]

with on track coffee prices escalating so rapidly, i was thinking of starting my own partnership.....:D

[mountainman]

at this point (as a player) i'd almost like to see jamie ness come back to pen. :eek:

with stephanie beattie and wells split up and woodard arriving on the scene, the presence of one more supertrainer could really lead to some competition at the top of the trainer standings.

Head to head competition might be at a minimum. Supertrainers now make a science of ducking each other. Without singling any horseman out, excessive and late scratching has replaced doping as THE issue at mid-level and minor tracks.

[Shemp Howard]

with on track coffee prices escalating so rapidly, i was thinking of starting my own partnership.....:D

Be sure to mark every expense up 10%. The infamous "cushion".

[wonatthewire1]

With the location of PEN, it puts him in close enough range to be going to PRX, CT, and LRL/PIM. Wouldn't be surprised to see him sneaking into a PRX field for some of the Philly slot cash.

[Mineshaft]

Next thing we know, Burton K. Sipp will slip in to Pen, parrots and all.




that dude is a weirdo


came to Delta about 4-5 yrs ago and you could just tell he was weird. he didnt trust anyone he did his own entering.

[Mineshaft]

Be sure to mark every expense up 10%. The infamous "cushion".





with day rates its probably more than 10%

[proximity]

proximity
ceo
wrenfeather stables
jamie ness, trainer

silks:

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSyKm4pNL27VQqsWoJGmL-vJ39DD82g4q8LmEwvppmLsdIPc_APC0YTVyM (http://www.hiltonpond.org/images/WrenWinter04.jpg):cool:

[Mineshaft]

proximity
ceo
wrenfeather stables
jamie ness, trainer

silks:

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSyKm4pNL27VQqsWoJGmL-vJ39DD82g4q8LmEwvppmLsdIPc_APC0YTVyM (http://www.hiltonpond.org/images/WrenWinter04.jpg):cool:




where we claiming?

[Mineshaft]

Woodward has 2 in at Calder Saturday

[proximity]

where we claiming?


i'm going to bug tonyk@hsh's table in the pen dining room to get the inside tips!!:eek:

[Shemp Howard]

that dude is a weirdo


came to Delta about 4-5 yrs ago and you could just tell he was weird. he didnt trust anyone he did his own entering.

I used to take my kids when they were small to his pet shop. At that time, he was barred from every trad\ck in the country. He had birds there that you couldn't buy legally, Soon therafter, his place caught fire AND PA welcomed him with open arms. PA tracks are the end of the line for the misfits of racing.

If you only live once, why would you want to spend your life at Penn National???

[Mineshaft]

I used to take my kids when they were small to his pet shop. At that time, he was barred from every trad\ck in the country. He had birds there that you couldn't buy legally, Soon therafter, his place caught fire AND PA welcomed him with open arms. PA tracks are the end of the line for the misfits of racing.

If you only live once, why would you want to spend your life at Penn National???






Classic..........

[proximity]

If you only live once, why would you want to spend your life at Penn National???

tonyk and i are just a couple hillbilly gypsies i guess?:rolleyes:

if you're talking about that bob guy, i don't really know the dude. if i was a partner though i wouldn't really appreciate him sharing laughs with rival barns that are winning at ridiculously high percentages while we struggle to reach the teens. i notice that the guy does have some good people around him with trainers todd beattie and brandon kulp and the miesque girl that used to post here. so what exactly the problem is, i don't know.

[Mineshaft]

tonyk and i are just a couple hillbilly gypsies i guess?:rolleyes:

if you're talking about that bob guy, i don't really know the dude. if i was a partner though i wouldn't really appreciate him sharing laughs with rival barns that are winning at ridiculously high percentages while we struggle to reach the teens. i notice that the guy does have some good people around him with trainers todd beattie and brandon kulp and the miesque girl that used to post here. so what exactly the problem is, i don't know.





Kulp is not with him. The problem issssssssssss well i better not say what the problems are.

[proximity]

i do see in the morning paper that the "you only live once" has apparently replaced the "bubble" thing.

tonight he's running an interesting horse :6: kaleidostar in the 4th that the trainer seemed to be making some progress with back in april (moss figures in low 90s). if the horse is ok he may be able to win some at ct with his ability/turn times. the horse only has 14 starts. 6f might be too far vs horses with 5+ wins though. and of course, i'd call tonyk and get a.r. riding!!

[proximity]

if i'm understanding his website correctly, so far kaleidostar has been profitable for the year??

$4000 for 100% ownership + $18000 ($2000 X 9mos)=$22,000 expenses vs $22,020 earnings for a profit of $20??? or am i paying the jockey and trainer out of the earnings??

[proximity]

another for dummies question about this kind of arrangement....

say i buy 25% of kaleidostar, bob owns 25%, and two other people own 25% each. now say the two other people suddenly drop out? does the main partner (bob) normally pick up the remaining 50% or would we each own 50% and my expenses would proportionally increase??

[Charli125]

if i'm understanding his website correctly, so far kaleidostar has been profitable for the year??

$4000 for 100% ownership + $18000 ($2000 X 9mos)=$22,000 expenses vs $22,020 earnings for a profit of $20??? or am i paying the jockey and trainer out of the earnings??
You pay the jockey and trainer out of the earnings. Without going into specifics, no, you wouldn't be profitable.


another for dummies question about this kind of arrangement....

say i buy 25% of kaleidostar, bob owns 25%, and two other people own 25% each. now say the two other people suddenly drop out? does the main partner (bob) normally pick up the remaining 50% or would we each own 50% and my expenses would proportionally increase??
That would be an odd case because people can't just "drop out". Once you own a piece of the horse, you're liable for the expenses unless you can offload those shares.

[proximity]

so with a win tonight he'd be 3/8 on the year with a + roi of about 4-5% on your 22k?

[Charli125]

so with a win tonight he'd be 3/8 on the year with a + roi of about 4-5% on your 22k?

I see career earnings of 36,660. Not sure where the rest of your numbers come from though, so I'm not going to comment.

[proximity]

i was calculating for 2011 and assuming $4000 claiming price. i guess if the initial price was $5000, that extra $1000 would wipe out all the profits with a win tonight.

thanks for sharing your experiences btw.

[Charli125]

i was calculating for 2011 and assuming $4000 claiming price. i guess if the initial price was $5000, that extra $1000 would wipe out all the profits with a win tonight.

thanks for sharing your experiences btw.

Gotcha. You were assuming 4K purchase price, 2K per month expenses, etc. I didn't see that part the first time through.

[forced89]

another for dummies question about this kind of arrangement....

say i buy 25% of kaleidostar, bob owns 25%, and two other people own 25% each. now say the two other people suddenly drop out? does the main partner (bob) normally pick up the remaining 50% or would we each own 50% and my expenses would proportionally increase??

I have no idea what the Partnership Agreement says but my guess is that you would still own your 25% and the the Partnership Manager would hold on to the forfeited 50% until he could sell it (of give it away) to someone else.

[Mineshaft]

the horse was scratched tonite

[Shemp Howard]

i do see in the morning paper that the "you only live once" has apparently replaced the "bubble" thing.

tonight he's running an interesting horse :6: kaleidostar in the 4th that the trainer seemed to be making some progress with back in april (moss figures in low 90s). if the horse is ok he may be able to win some at ct with his ability/turn times. the horse only has 14 starts. 6f might be too far vs horses with 5+ wins though. and of course, i'd call tonyk and get a.r. riding!!

That horse was raced 4 times in 5 weeks back in Jan-Feb on the frozen Pen track. Has only been able to race three times in the next 6 months, winless, of course. (6/99)

[proximity]

the horse was scratched tonite


i drive through (another) flood to get there to drop the slip and then have to wait in a line like frank pantangeli in godfather 2 to get a sit down at tonyk's table!!:D

[Shemp Howard]

i drive through (another) flood to get there to drop the slip and then have to wait in a line like frank pantangeli in godfather 2 to get a sit down at tonyk's table!!:D

Those damn Rosato Brothers. Did they give you a Franklin for your trouble?

[proximity]

Those damn Rosato Brothers. Did they give you a Franklin for your trouble?

that nobody there asked me to "borrow" a jackson is a penn national rarity!!:eek:

[Mineshaft]

That horse was raced 4 times in 5 weeks back in Jan-Feb on the frozen Pen track. Has only been able to race three times in the next 6 months, winless, of course. (6/99)






6/99 they might want to get a new trainer or some new horses.

[Shemp Howard]

I think fortunes will improve once all the Parx/Delaware/Laurel shippers start bypassing the dump in Grantville for those uber-subsidised purses at Aqueduct . Back to the 4/5 horse fields against the same horses every condition book will turn any sows ear of a stable into a 10% winner.

[Mineshaft]

Woodward runs his first horse tomorrow nite at Penn

[Citation1947]

Sounds like more "Business as Usual" at Penn!!

[Mineshaft]

Woodward runs his first horse tomorrow nite at Penn





my bad he ran one last Sat nite at Penn in the first race-my apologies

[Mineshaft]

Woodward won the 3rd at Penn tonite

[proximity]

kaleidostar running tonight in the 2nd. should lead a long way IF the girl has him fit.

woodard 17% so far....

[Shemp Howard]

kaleidostar running tonight in the 2nd. should lead a long way IF the girl has him fit.

woodard 17% so far....

Fit as a fiddle. Only beaten 20 lengths.

[forced89]

Don't blame it on the girl. She's not his trainer anymore!

[proximity]

i'm not assigning any blame but if that girl isn't the horse's trainer then she's got to get her name removed from the pps. losses don't help a trainer's win percentage.

the race wasn't an encouraging effort. slower fractions than the 5000n4l fillies later in the card and the horse dropped anchor. it could have been worse though.... at least he showed some gate speed.

[Shemp Howard]

Don't blame it on the girl. She's not his trainer anymore!

In some jurisditions that would be considered a fraud against the betting public. She's listed in the entries as well as in the results.

Another reason to avoid Penn.

[Shemp Howard]

Don't blame it on the girl. She's not his trainer anymore!

Rumor has it she quit and had all of the horses removed from her stalls at Penn.

[Some_One]

The Woodward horses seem to be running well to their form, but overbet. Still Stephanie Beattie horses always seem to defy form.

[mountainman]

In some jurisditions that would be considered a fraud against the betting public. She's listed in the entries as well as in the results.

Another reason to avoid Penn.

Program trainers are common at any track, regardless of class-level. The public has NO idea how often somebody other than the listed trainer does the actual conditioning and calls the shots. Often, it's the listed owner, and I out them without hesitation on our show. (FAR too little atn is paid by handicappers to owners, but that's a somewhat separate topic.)

Watch the win picure and take note of who stands in the traditional trainer's position. If it's somebody besides the listed conditioner (or the designated a.t.), you've identified the real trainer. There are other ways, even from a distance, to determine who actually trains a t-bred. I explored the " hidden trainer" angle in an article I once did for HP magazine.

[Shemp Howard]

Program trainers are common at any track, regardless of class-level. The public has NO idea how often somebody other than the listed trainer does the actual conditioning and calls the shots. Often, it's the listed owner, and I out them without hesitation on our show. (FAR too little atn is paid by handicappers to owners, but that's a somewhat separate topic.)

Watch the win picure and take note of who stands in the traditional trainer's position. If it's somebody besides the listed conditioner (or the designated a.t.), you've identified the real trainer. There are other ways, even from a distance, to determine who actually trains a t-bred. I explored the " hidden trainer" angle in an article I once did for HP magazine.

You can't "out"the owner in question in this case unless you want to be banished for life.

[mountainman]

You can't "out"the owner in question in this case unless you want to be banished for life.

Not my job, man. And I'm unfamiliar with the players in this case. But I've SURE had owners (and trainers) attempt to banish me.

[proximity]

The Woodward horses seem to be running well to their form, but overbet. Still Stephanie Beattie horses always seem to defy form.

a friend who is a handicapper was lucky enough to talk with a real live pen horseman the other day. the real live pen horseman told my friend that he really likes working with the horses but that he hates the breakdowns.

my friend told him about a stephanie beattie horse that he saw breakdown a week or two ago and the horseman told him "it's just part of the business".....and that stephanie is great and that she's getting a new corvette (?) or something and then the horseman kept repeating "it's just part of the business" almost like he was hypnotized.

my friend then told him about a john connor horse (unsual manner) that broke down a little while ago. and the horseman just commented that "it's just part of the business..... john's with stephanie beattie now..... and he's doing really good!!" :bang:

[Shemp Howard]

Todd Beattie took a $4k claimer from Joe Woodward last night. I never knew Todd to waste time with cheap stock.

Has a campaign to claim Joe out of Penn begun?? Or is busines at Penn that bad these days???

[forced89]

Maybe the horse was worth the money. They run $5K claimers for good money at PN.

[Shemp Howard]

Maybe the horse was worth the money. They run $5K claimers for good money at PN.


I never gave that a second thought. I see tonight, on a fast strip, the aveage field size is lass than 6. Can't help but cash a check, even if you enter a cow, now that the better stables are winding down.

Since you only live once, why not live it out at Penn National?

[proximity]

right now woodard is 17% at pen which is just average for six horse fields and almost 10% lower than his overall win percentage. and jamie ness is only 19%, which is well below his 32% overall average. rising local star john conner is at 19%. we haven't even got to stephanie beattie and wells. the competition is just too tough. me thinx the bubble has bursted!!!!

[proximity]

Program trainers are common at any track, regardless of class-level. The public has NO idea how often somebody other than the listed trainer does the actual conditioning and calls the shots. ....


can you give us a hint on friday's 7th??

billy was training the :1: and :2: , but now scooter is training the :1: and :2: and scooter was training the :3: , but now billy is (yet again) training the :3: and uncle louis is training the :7: , but for all we know lamboguy himself is really calling the shots on the :7: ....:faint:

you and nancy will earn your pay on this one!!