Manning

[Valuist]

This doesn't look good for Manning. Rumors of neurological damage. Really have to wonder if he's considering retirement. Sure, IF he could play at a high level for another 4-5 years he could re-write the record books but at what risk? He's made his money; got his SB ring; piled up endless amazing stats. IF the rumors are true, would it justify the risk?

It really seemed like the Colts were understating the nature of the injury. Really be shocked if he misses only one game.

[DigitalDownsJoe]

Im a colts fan, and this is is horrific to me :(

[cj's dad]

Peyton should have a conversation with Mike Utley. This is serious stuff.

In the best of health it only takes one hit.

[GaryG]

I have been a huge fan since he was at UT....saw him play many times. I would rather see him call it a career and go out on top rather than hang on like some other of the greats have done, such as Namath, Unitas, Montana and Ruston's own Bert Jones.

[Valuist]

Peyton should have a conversation with Mike Utley. This is serious stuff.

In the best of health it only takes one hit.

I remember Utley going down. THink it was early 90s. So many guys get hauled off and seemingly are gonna be paralyzed but somehow recover within a few weeks or months. But not Utley. Darryl Stingley was another, going way back to the 70s.

[cj's dad]

I remember Utley going down. THink it was early 90s. So many guys get hauled off and seemingly are gonna be paralyzed but somehow recover within a few weeks or months. But not Utley. Darryl Stingley was another, going way back to the 70s.

I remember the Sting;ey and Utley incidents. There was also a guy from the Bills paralyzed.

Hope Manning gives serious thought to playing.

[Tom]

Not worth it - get out now, on top.

[elysiantraveller]

This doesn't look good for Manning. Rumors of neurological damage. Really have to wonder if he's considering retirement. Sure, IF he could play at a high level for another 4-5 years he could re-write the record books but at what risk? He's made his money; got his SB ring; piled up endless amazing stats. IF the rumors are true, would it justify the risk?

It really seemed like the Colts were understating the nature of the injury. Really be shocked if he misses only one game.

I wasn't really aware of the seriousness of it until I heard Ed Reid's comments on coming back from a similar procedure where he said after his he planned to play differently and coming back from two?... forget about it.

Peyton is a smart guy and I think he will do whats best for him but he really has nothing left to prove. Heck hanging it up now and seeing the Colts go 3-13 this year would only add to his legacy.

[Canarsie]

A while back I had neck problems that thankfully were solved with physical therapy and not surgery. The doctor told me that should be the last choice there are no guarantees.

I will never forget this question he asked. "Were you an athlete and played ball when you were younger"? I told him that I used to play basketball 8- 10 hours a day from age 11. He then told me that all that constant running up and down the court causes a jarring affect and neck problems for many in their later years.

I'm sure he's going to get an opinion from the Hospital for Special Surgery in NYC. If I was him though would hang it up and enjoy his family. While he doesn't need the money he would be an asset to any football telecast or discussion.

[BetHorses!]

This doesn't look good for Manning. Rumors of neurological damage. Really have to wonder if he's considering retirement. Sure, IF he could play at a high level for another 4-5 years he could re-write the record books but at what risk? He's made his money; got his SB ring; piled up endless amazing stats. IF the rumors are true, would it justify the risk?

It really seemed like the Colts were understating the nature of the injury. Really be shocked if he misses only one game.


Hey Valuist,

I have Texans -2.5 this week. 8.5 and 9's now.

What percentage of ur bet would u buy back? Or sit w the best of it?

[Valuist]

Hey Valuist,

I have Texans -2.5 this week. 8.5 and 9's now.

What percentage of ur bet would u buy back? Or sit w the best of it?

I like your chances.

As for Manning, I think its just a matter of time before Colts management comes clean and puts him on IR. I will be surprised if he plays in ANY games this year.

[Hanover1]

I like your chances.

As for Manning, I think its just a matter of time before Colts management comes clean and puts him on IR. I will be surprised if he plays in ANY games this year.

Thats what I am seeing as well. My alltime favorite QB too....

[Elliott Sidewater]

I heard on the radio, 4 or 5 hours ago, that Manning had another surgery and was officially out for the entire season.

[Hanover1]

I heard on the radio, 4 or 5 hours ago, that Manning had another surgery and was officially out for the entire season.

Saw another report that said owner denied another surgery took place on his Twitter account...said to have reported that he will be out "awhile" however. Perhaps someone can confirm? I don't do Twitter.....

[DigitalDownsJoe]

I wonder how Collins will fit in here. He is a vet, and with a lot of weapons and a good line, he could fit in nicely for a short time. I don't think many people think he will do well because he preseason wasn't too good, but I think the Colts are still going to be good without Manning. Only time will tell..Maybe its the optomistic side of me talking here.. :p

[Hanover1]

If Collins can read defense and adjust like Manning does/did, then they will be fine. Those are huge shoes to fill. No Manning= 9 wins max?

[Valuist]

If Collins can read defense and adjust like Manning does/did, then they will be fine. Those are huge shoes to fill. No Manning= 9 wins max?

I heard on the radio some mathematicians ran the numbers and pegged the Colts for about 6 wins if no Manning. I don't see how they could possibly get to 9 without him.

BTW, the line moved a full 7 points when it was known he was out. THAT is a monsterous move.

[Valuist]

Sportsline just had a headline that said Manning DID have additional neck surgery this morning. They pegged him out 2-3 months.

Yeah, and when they are 3-6 are they gonna bring him back? Of course not.

[Hanover1]

Its all over the place now....playoff hopes slim now.

[ldiatone]

bad thing for manning. my wife had neck surgery aug 2 and the doc placed 14 screws in her neck.(4th back operation since 01). then when removing the stables doc nocticed some "drainage" put her on a Womb Vac to absorb any infection. she was not closed up. so for 2 more weeks she stayed in the hospital. then the day they were to close her up....lighting hits presby's main generators and all ops where canceled. another 2 day wait. now home she has to administer 5 antiboics a day. one lasts 80 mins twice a day and the other 3, 40 mins. home nurses come once a week to get blood and check levels. and she still has the stitches and staples plus a drain in her neck! hopefully on tues. he'll remove them. she's like in the hospital cause she can't go any where cause of the antibotics :(

[Hanover1]

bad thing for manning. my wife had neck surgery aug 2 and the doc placed 14 screws in her neck.(4th back operation since 01). then when removing the stables doc nocticed some "drainage" put her on a Womb Vac to absorb any infection. she was not closed up. so for 2 more weeks she stayed in the hospital. then the day they were to close her up....lighting hits presby's main generators and all ops where canceled. another 2 day wait. now home she has to administer 5 antiboics a day. one lasts 80 mins twice a day and the other 3, 40 mins. home nurses come once a week to get blood and check levels. and she still has the stitches and staples plus a drain in her neck! hopefully on tues. he'll remove them. she's like in the hospital cause she can't go any where cause of the antibotics :(

I went down with a horse and lay in a coma for 10 days and was advised to quit at that time. Never sat behind a pacer again (even though it was a trotter that went down) and stubbornly went on for over 20 years, but the headaches....and some claim I have plain lost it at times. Who am I to argue when I was encouragd to retire for several years? My golf handicap was not good enough to hustle the links...lol, so I had to do something every day. I see Manning heading in that direction.

[Robert Goren]

I think highly unlikely that he would have had the second surgery if he was not planning on playing again. Whether he will actually be able to again and if so, when is another question.

[KingChas]

Would not be surprised if the Colts went after Eli.

Those Giant folks always seem to be dissatisfied with their current QB.

[BetHorses!]

BTW, the line moved a full 7 points when it was known he was out. THAT is a monsterous move.


The reason why i'm sticking w my bet and not hedging any of it even with a great middle possibility

[Valuist]

I suspect we have seen his last game. If you were in his shoes, what would be the point of coming back? He's got his ring, he's got his 3 MVPs, and he's an obvious first ballot Hall of Famer. The Colts team has so many weaknesses I don't think even he could get them more than 8 wins next year. Just seems like its too big a risk to take, IMO.

[horses4courses]

I suspect we have seen his last game. If you were in his shoes, what would be the point of coming back? He's got his ring, he's got his 3 MVPs, and he's an obvious first ballot Hall of Famer. The Colts team has so many weaknesses I don't think even he could get them more than 8 wins next year. Just seems like its too big a risk to take, IMO.

I fully agree, and have said this for months now.
Unless he makes a complete recovery (highly unlikely), there is no point risking his long term health for the sake of a few seasons, at best.

PM has had a career to be proud of. Not much to gain by playing again.

[Robert Goren]

Players like Manning do not go gently into the night.

[Valuist]

Players like Manning do not go gently into the night.

Yeah but he's not stupid. His older brother had some spinal issue where he had to quit football. Archie certainly took a pounding when he played. The risk is too big to take the chance.

[DigitalDownsJoe]

It wouldnt surprise me of him announcing retirement, coming back on next year as a qb coach or offesive coordinator, and grooming Luck into the best QB this league has ever seen :)

[DigitalDownsJoe]

As a lifetime colts fan, it hurts me to see him like this, if he plays again, it would likely be in another uniform. Maybe a Bear, maybe a Bronco, who knows, but I think the whole organization is drooling over Luck. What other options do they have? Trade the first pick, for a few high round picks???Really build the defense back up?? That might be an option if they can get atleast 4 or 5 more years from him, but that play is much riskier!

[Robert Fischer]

It wouldnt surprise me of him announcing retirement, coming back on next year as a qb coach or offesive coordinator, and grooming Luck into the best QB this league has ever seen :)


:ThmbUp:

There is some possibility that the recent "good news" on Manning is just a cover for the Colts pathetic suck-for-Luck movement. The NFL probably has no problem with Luck going to the Colts, but I am sure they don't want the whole lose on purpose thing to be emphasized.

Wouldn't shock me to see him retired. I don't see him going to just any team. If he does come back and wants to play, the most interesting fit off the top of my head (other than your logical scenario grooming Luck) would be the Jets.

[Valuist]

As a lifetime colts fan, it hurts me to see him like this, if he plays again, it would likely be in another uniform. Maybe a Bear, maybe a Bronco, who knows, but I think the whole organization is drooling over Luck. What other options do they have? Trade the first pick, for a few high round picks???Really build the defense back up?? That might be an option if they can get atleast 4 or 5 more years from him, but that play is much riskier!

I know but Manning has done a lot for that organization. If he never came there, the team could well be in Los Angeles. And they probably would've left over 5 years ago.

[ManU918]

As a lifetime colts fan, it hurts me to see him like this, if he plays again, it would likely be in another uniform. Maybe a Bear, maybe a Bronco, who knows, but I think the whole organization is drooling over Luck. What other options do they have? Trade the first pick, for a few high round picks???Really build the defense back up?? That might be an option if they can get atleast 4 or 5 more years from him, but that play is much riskier!

The Colts problems go well beyond Manning not playing. If Manning is in fact done which I don't believe he is and they draft Luck, they might be in the same spot next year that they are in this year. Maybe not winless but fighting for the first overall pick again.

[cj's dad]

It would be poetic justice to the nth degree to see him somehow end up with Baltimore. Sorry, just my twisted logic.

Then again, could he beat out Flacco. ;)

[Bettowin]

The NFL needs to put red jerseys on the QB's and make the untouchable during games then we wouldn't have these problems:) Just get it over with instead of changing the rules about hitting them every year.

Seriously, Manning will come back. He is too stubborn and competitive not to at least make another run at it. With Luck coming onboard it's a perfect situation for his comeback. He is smart enough to adapt to whatever he has left and can mentor Luck if he can't play every game.

[canleakid]

Peyton a 49'er :confused:

[Valuist]

Probably just sports radio fodder but ESPN radio is claiming Houston is in the running.

Imagine this offense: Peyton Manning at QB, Arian Foster at RB, Andre Johnson at WR.

Miami Heat, you have been upstaged.

[cj's dad]

Peyton a 49'er :confused:

Lots of chatter in the DC area about him coming to the 'Skins. Desperately need a QB, Snyder has the $$$ and he would get to play vs. Eli twice a year.

[horses4courses]

I haven't been following the Indy situation very closely.
What I would like to know, though, is whether Peyton is anywhere close to being healthy enough to play again?
In addition to that, does he want to?

[Tom]

I haven't been following the Indy situation very closely.
What I would like to know, though, is whether Peyton is anywhere close to being healthy enough to play again?
In addition to that, does he want to?

If Buffalo gets him, it won't matter.

[Striker]

Probably just sports radio fodder but ESPN radio is claiming Houston is in the running.

Imagine this offense: Peyton Manning at QB, Arian Foster at RB, Andre Johnson at WR.

Miami Heat, you have been upstaged.
I'm not sure why Houston would be in play. Unless Schaub's rehab isn't going too well. Redskins make complete sense. But that offense would be something if he did go to Houston.

[Greyfox]

At his news conference this morning Manning showed the class of a real winner.
A very admirable guy.

[cj's dad]

If Buffalo gets him, it won't matter.

They have a team ?

[ponyplayerdotca]

Being such a competitor, he will stubbornly soldier on and sign a big conditional contract with some team.

He will try to play, discover he can't regain his form 100% (which will frustrate him) and finally, he'll get hit that one time that erases all the physical rehab process he has made.

That will ultimately be followed by the tearful press conference of him regretfully announcing his retirement from professional football.

Enjoy him while he's still here playing because it won't be for much longer.

[Robert Fischer]

:(

[pktruckdriver]

Miami

[Valuist]

Realistically, Miami is one of the favorites. They had a number of real close losses last year. Definitely better than their record showed. He may bring Reggie Wayne down there too.

[Robert Fischer]

Are the Fins a playoff team with Manning ?

[Valuist]

Are the Fins a playoff team with Manning ?

ASSUMING Manning is the 2009-2010 Manning? Absolutely. Linemakers said he was worth anywhere from 7-10 points alone to the line. How many games did Miami lose by less than a TD? Henne was terrible. Moore wasn't too bad but he isn't 3 time MVP type material.

[Striker]

ASSUMING Manning is the 2009-2010 Manning? Absolutely. Linemakers said he was worth anywhere from 7-10 points alone to the line. How many games did Miami lose by less than a TD? Henne was terrible. Moore wasn't too bad but he isn't 3 time MVP type material.
Agreed. Miami would be extremely dangerous on the offensive side of the ball with Manning if he can play anywhere close to what he was before the injury.

[Canarsie]

Miami

I'm running with his opinion. Was the first one to get Francona leaving the Sox on here.

[horses4courses]

A handful of UK bookmakers have posted odds on this.
They bet:

Dolphins 5-2
Cardinals 3
Seahawks 6
Redskins 6
Chiefs 7
Jets 8
Broncos 8

The odds climb higher (over 20-1) on other teams signing him.
One company, Paddy Power, list him at 10-1 to retire.

[Striker]

He has said that he wishes to stay in the AFC so early money would be on the Dolphins and Broncos.

[Valuist]

I think the Jets have no chance. Too much drama from the coach.

Washington has to be among the favorites. Snyder loves to sign the aging free agents. They certainly need a QB. But could Manning co-exist with Shanahan?

[Pace Cap'n]

The Chiefs, who log in about 30m under the salary cap, are one of the few teams who could afford him.

[Striker]

ESPN just reported that Manning is in Miami training with Reggie Wayne.

[horses4courses]

A handful of UK bookmakers have posted odds on this.
They bet:

Dolphins 5-2
Cardinals 3
Seahawks 6
Redskins 6
Chiefs 7
Jets 8
Broncos 8

The odds climb higher (over 20-1) on other teams signing him.
One company, Paddy Power, list him at 10-1 to retire.

Miami's odds have dropped to 8-5, everyone else on the drift......

[Valuist]

I've heard that Washington is out. Kind of ironic in that considering how many over 30 year old free agents Snyder has chased, he decides against Manning, one who may actually pay dividends.

Sounds like about a four horse race between Miami, KC, Denver and Seattle.

[Valuist]

I think Miami is out. They just traded their number 1 WR, Brandon Marshall, to the Bears.

[RaceBookJoe]

I think Miami is out. They just traded their number 1 WR, Brandon Marshall, to the Bears.

I think thats why Marshall was traded...Manning didnt want to work with him.

[Valuist]

I think thats why Marshall was traded...Manning didnt want to work with him.

I guess most of Manning's favorite targets: Wayne, Clark and Garcon are all free agents. Supposedly Wayne and Jeff Saturday are gonna go wherever Manning goes. Wonder if Clark will as well.

[Zydeco]

Garcon says he's signing with the redskins

[duncan04]

I guess most of Manning's favorite targets: Wayne, Clark and Garcon are all free agents. Supposedly Wayne and Jeff Saturday are gonna go wherever Manning goes. Wonder if Clark will as well.

I saw a report that Manning, Wayne and Clark would probably all go to same team.

[cj's dad]

I think thats why Marshall was traded...Manning didnt want to work with him.

Are you saying that Marshal thinks he is a better wide out than PM is a QB. If that's what he thinks, he's insane.

[Valuist]

I saw a report that Manning, Wayne and Clark would probably all go to same team.

Wayne ended up re-signing with Indy yesterday.

WRs for the most part, are now gone. Vincent Jackson to Tampa, Marshall gets traded to Chicago, Wayne stays in Indy, Bowe was franchised, and Garcon goes to Washington.

[lsbets]

According to ESPN, Manning on his way to Denver and Tebow to be traded.

[headhawg]

Denver is surprising considering the weather. I thought that he would to go AZ to be with Fitzgerald and have better game conditions. Elway really hates Tebow.

[Valuist]

Think its apparent that younger brother Eli has not only caught big brother Peyton, but he has passed him. Granted, Peyton probably will never be 100% again in terms of his arm strength.

[proximity]

idk, but i watched that patriots-broncos game and thought peyton manning looked tremendous. he seemed to be about the only bronco that was there for a football game. reminded me of the super-computer "joshua" in the movie war games. everyone was standing around the room but the computer was still going.... "joshua's trying to get the code to launch the missiles all by himself!!" :D

[Valuist]

Remember that 3 INT first quarter Peyton had against Atlanta in the Monday nighter? Just looked up his numbers. He's played 20 quarters. In 19 of those 20 quarters, he hasn't thrown an interception.

[Valuist]

It looks like Manning will benefit from dodging the bitter cold from last weekend. Temps this weekend in Denver figure to reach the upper 40s, with little chance of rain.

OTOH, at his advanced age, how many more chances will he have at a Super Bowl? My guess is he plays one more year, unless they win it all this year, then he probably retires. But there has to be a lot of pressure on him to perform in this run. The Broncos were over a TD favorite over the Ravens last year and stubbed their toe. I can't lay the heavy chalk with Denver. Not sure I'm taking SD, but its either the Chargers or pass for me.

[ManU918]

It looks like Manning will benefit from dodging the bitter cold from last weekend. Temps this weekend in Denver figure to reach the upper 40s, with little chance of rain.

OTOH, at his advanced age, how many more chances will he have at a Super Bowl? My guess is he plays one more year, unless they win it all this year, then he probably retires. But there has to be a lot of pressure on him to perform in this run. The Broncos were over a TD favorite over the Ravens last year and stubbed their toe. I can't lay the heavy chalk with Denver. Not sure I'm taking SD, but its either the Chargers or pass for me.

He is signed through 2016 with the Broncos. If he stays healthy, I fully expect him to play until then.... If not longer.

[Valuist]

He is signed through 2016 with the Broncos. If he stays healthy, I fully expect him to play until then.... If not longer.

Do you really believe if he wins a Super Bowl this year he would bother coming back next year? Two years ago, he didn't know if he'd ever play again. If most players are 2-3 big hits away from an injury that will effect them when they are done playing, Manning is one big hit away.

[aardvark]

Do you really believe if he wins a Super Bowl this year he would bother coming back next year? Two years ago, he didn't know if he'd ever play again. If most players are 2-3 big hits away from an injury that will effect them when they are done playing, Manning is one big hit away.
As a Chargers fan, I'd like to think he'll be back next year due to the fact he won't get to the SB this year. The Chargers have already beaten them once this season in Denver. If they can continue running the ball with some authority and don't turn the ball over, they have a real good chance again this week. Rivers also does well in Denver, going 6-2 all time there.

[Stillriledup]

As a Chargers fan, I'd like to think he'll be back next year due to the fact he won't get to the SB this year. The Chargers have already beaten them once this season in Denver. If they can continue running the ball with some authority and don't turn the ball over, they have a real good chance again this week. Rivers also does well in Denver, going 6-2 all time there.

I agree, SD has a great shot in this game, Denver may look past them, especially if New England wins on Saturday, they'll know that the Pats are "next man up" if they win.

[Stillriledup]

Peyton should come out of game, no reason to have him out there at this point.

[Ocala Mike]

I'll beat Tom to this one. My tag for this game: "If you like your quarterback, you can keep your quarterback!"

[Valuist]

I haven't heard the talking heads but I can just imagine what they are saying. The fact is, nobody should be judged strictly by one or two games. Football still is a team game. Manning doesn't look as good when he's having to deal with Cliff Avril and the pass rush as well as the Seattle secondary. But Tom Brady didn't look nearly as effective when those Giant teams were putting heat on him in the recent Patriot Super Bowls. Manning STILL is among the all time greats.

[burnsy]

I haven't heard the talking heads but I can just imagine what they are saying. The fact is, nobody should be judged strictly by one or two games. Football still is a team game. Manning doesn't look as good when he's having to deal with Cliff Avril and the pass rush as well as the Seattle secondary. But Tom Brady didn't look nearly as effective when those Giant teams were putting heat on him in the recent Patriot Super Bowls. Manning STILL is among the all time greats.

You are so right. Those guys are like 0-4 in their last SB games. But they are great QB's. Being the best QB and being the best team, are two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT things. These people are still human, as good as they are. If your TEAM can't PHYSICALLY match up with the other TEAM. The QB becomes irrelevant. All the talk about Brady and Manning.....well, they can't block, catch, run and tackle too. That's the flaw with putting EVERTHING on the QB. The greatest QB can't beat a BETTER TEAM. You understand that, I understand that, but many people do not. They make the QB the hero or the scapegoat. Just does not work that way.

[RaceBookJoe]

You are so right. Those guys are like 0-4 in their last SB games. But they are great QB's. Being the best QB and being the best team, are two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT things. These people are still human, as good as they are. If your TEAM can't PHYSICALLY match up with the other TEAM. The QB becomes irrelevant. All the talk about Brady and Manning.....well, they can't block, catch, run and tackle too. That's the flaw with putting EVERTHING on the QB. The greatest QB can't beat a BETTER TEAM. You understand that, I understand that, but many people do not. They make the QB the hero or the scapegoat. Just does not work that way.

100% agree :ThmbUp:

[Stillriledup]

You are so right. Those guys are like 0-4 in their last SB games. But they are great QB's. Being the best QB and being the best team, are two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT things. These people are still human, as good as they are. If your TEAM can't PHYSICALLY match up with the other TEAM. The QB becomes irrelevant. All the talk about Brady and Manning.....well, they can't block, catch, run and tackle too. That's the flaw with putting EVERTHING on the QB. The greatest QB can't beat a BETTER TEAM. You understand that, I understand that, but many people do not. They make the QB the hero or the scapegoat. Just does not work that way.

Manning was so good, he was able to get a team who absolutely didnt belong in the game TO the game in the first place. People wrongly assume that if you're in the big game, you're a good team....but if your team is essentially a "one man show" than there's a good chance you can get exposed when you have to play an actual good/great team.

This is largely why Brady has been losing big games recently, he's been losing games as heavy favorites, losing playoff games at home to the Jets and Ravens and he loses these games because he's largely overachieving just to GET THERE in the first place....but at the highest levels, the QB can't win games single handedly if the other team has a better player at almost every position.

[ronsmac]

Manning's arm is completely shot. This game was similar to the Ravens game in the playoffs last yr. Denver did get 2 return td's and granted Manning played a little better, but it was all short passes nothing down field. I've watched him all year, and he had a great statistical season, but it was all short passes with an occasional intermediate pass. That doesn't work against a team like Seattle.

[horses4courses]

Manning's arm is completely shot. This game was similar to the Ravens game in the playoffs last yr. Denver did get 2 return td's and granted Manning played a little better, but it was all short passes nothing down field. I've watched him all year, and he had a great statistical season, but it was all short passes with an occasional intermediate pass. That doesn't work against a team like Seattle.

The Broncos could have played Clark Kent against Seattle yesterday, and still had no shot.
That defense made Peyton look very bad only because they destroyed all other Broncos around him as well.
He's still got game......

[burnsy]

Manning was so good, he was able to get a team who absolutely didnt belong in the game TO the game in the first place. People wrongly assume that if you're in the big game, you're a good team....but if your team is essentially a "one man show" than there's a good chance you can get exposed when you have to play an actual good/great team.

This is largely why Brady has been losing big games recently, he's been losing games as heavy favorites, losing playoff games at home to the Jets and Ravens and he loses these games because he's largely overachieving just to GET THERE in the first place....but at the highest levels, the QB can't win games single handedly if the other team has a better player at almost every position.

...........and that's how I handicap the games. if Brady or Manning is playing a mediocre team.......like most of the AFC is, they may cover. I milked Denver all year long! If they meet their equal or a better team.......they are pretty much....a real shitty favorite. Horses4 said Clark Kent could not of won that game....Superman with the cape and all could not have won that game for Denver. The better team is kryptonite to the best QB.

[Stillriledup]

...........and that's how I handicap the games. if Brady or Manning is playing a mediocre team.......like most of the AFC is, they may cover. If they meet their equal or better team.......they are pretty much....a real shitty favorite. Someone said Clark Kent could not of won that game....Superman with the cape and all could not have won that game for Denver. The better team is kryptonite to the best QB.

Totally agree. Manning got the Colts to the playoffs almost every year, but he never really had a "Great team" underneath him. Its kind of a curse in a way to be so great, you make average players look good and you make good players look great......Manning's greatness is similar to an elite goalie in the NHL, that goalie can just keep teams to 2 goals or under and at some point, the players can "cut corners" because they know the goalie will save their bacon....but, at the highest levels of the game, you can't hide behind one player when the other 40 something guys are getting blown up and knocked off the ball.

Peyton should be getting praised for getting this team TO the big game and not getting hammered because they didnt compete.

New England would have also been "boat raced" in this game and people would have been critical of Brady, but Tom would have been in the exact same position, overachieving to get an average team to the big game.

[burnsy]

Totally agree. Manning got the Colts to the playoffs almost every year, but he never really had a "Great team" underneath him. Its kind of a curse in a way to be so great, you make average players look good and you make good players look great......Manning's greatness is similar to an elite goalie in the NHL, that goalie can just keep teams to 2 goals or under and at some point, the players can "cut corners" because they know the goalie will save their bacon....but, at the highest levels of the game, you can't hide behind one player when the other 40 something guys are getting blown up and knocked off the ball.

Peyton should be getting praised for getting this team TO the big game and not getting hammered because they didnt compete.

New England would have also been "boat raced" in this game and people would have been critical of Brady, but Tom would have been in the exact same position, overachieving to get an average team to the big game.

Peyton had a good team........Brady worked miracles with a mediocre team.....Seattle has a great team with a great "D". The AFC had no defenses like that this year...that's how Brady and Manning got away with it during the season. The AFC team was in for "it" no matter what two teams got in.

[ManU918]

Peyton had a good team........Brady worked miracles with a mediocre team.....Seattle has a great team with a great "D". The AFC had no defenses like that this year...that's how Brady and Manning got away with it during the season. The AFC team was in for "it" no matter what two teams got in.

Tedy Bruschi, Rodney Harrison, Ty Law, Richard Seymour, Mike Vrabel, Willie McGinest, Asante Samuel, and Vince Wilfork were far from mediocre.

2004 = Allowed 16.2 PPG ranked 2nd in the NFL.
2003 = Allowed 14.9 PPG ranked 1st in the NFL.
2001 = Allowed 17.0 PPG ranked 6th in the NFL.

[NJ Stinks]

Tedy Bruschi, Rodney Harrison, Ty Law, Richard Seymour, Mike Vrabel, Willie McGinest, Asante Samuel, and Vince Wilfork were far from mediocre.

2004 = Allowed 16.2 PPG ranked 2nd in the NFL.
2003 = Allowed 14.9 PPG ranked 1st in the NFL.
2001 = Allowed 17.0 PPG ranked 6th in the NFL.


I think Burnsy is referring to this year's Patriots team.

[burnsy]

I think Burnsy is referring to this year's Patriots team.

I was, the 2013 season. The AFC did not have good defensive teams at all. New England has not won it in a while because they don't have the teams Manu918 is quoting. I was strictly talking about THIS season. Denver had a "good" team and New England was mediocre. Cincinnati and San Diego had ok defenses but no one in the AFC played "d" like several of the NFC teams. Of course New England used to have a great defense, that's how they beat the Rams and that's why they used to win it. One of the reasons I thought Denver would have trouble is the NFC defenses were stronger than what they played against. How do you think Peyton set all those records? He was not playing teams like the Seahawks, 49;ers, Cardinals or Saints.The AFC championship game to the SB was like night and day for Denver.Like I said it would be..that's why New England was not that good...Denver tore them up...one punt. By the second quarter Peyton had to throw screens and behind the line passes because the Seahawks were all over Denver. It was like men vs boys the way they got pushed around. Denver itself has not that good of a defense..they looked good in the playoffs. In the SB Seattle was moving at will......right from the start. They didn't run as much but they were moving the chains on Denver. Russell Wilson had no pressure and his passes were way sharper than Peyton's ducks, which I also predicted would happen. The best defense USUALLY wins the biggest games. New England has not had that in years.

[Stillriledup]

7 years ago today, Peyton Manning won the Super Bowl.