Rudulph: Diversity 'still an issue in the industry'

[toussaud]

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/people/rudulph-diversity-still-an-issue-in-the-industry/

Just thought this was an interesting point of view. as a minority myself I tend to somewhat agree with his viewpoint. It's a great game, but there are alot of preconceived ideas about how horse racing is to the outside world that are not true. At the same time, there are some that are very much true.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

I'm not sure what point Ken is trying to make. Personally, I think horse racing is far more diverse than a lot of other sports, games, and activities. Is he saying that TVG needs to put more blacks on TV? If anyone in the game has a right to state diversity is "still in issue", it'd be women. Though we see plenty of them on the tube, they're still under-represented as jocks, trainers, and owners.

And what is a "belt buckle" culture?

I think Rudulph needs to go to Talledaga to observe a real lack of diversity....

[Irish Boy]

I'm not sure what point Ken is trying to make. Personally, I think horse racing is far more diverse than a lot of other sports, games, and activities. Is he saying that TVG needs to put more blacks on TV? If anyone in the game has a right to state diversity is "still in issue", it'd be women. Though we see plenty of them on the tube, they're still under-represented as jocks, trainers, and owners.

And what is a "belt buckle" culture?

I think Rudulph needs to go to Talledaga to observe a real lack of diversity....
Horse racing has a diverse audience because it has a more diverse audience than NASCAR is not a fantastic argument.

[toussaud]

it's really not that diverse and all of the minorities that are associated with the game are at the lower rungs so to speak.


There are a few Hispanics that have worked their way up in the rank to be pretty good trainers, humberto ascanio of Bobby Frankel fame comes to mind, but the vast majority of trainers are white males. There aren't very many female trainers, female riders, even less owners. I can't remember the last time i saw a non white or Hispanic person in the winners circle, any winners circle. The man who owns Premier Pegasus is the only that comes to mind. not saying there aren't any at all, i don't want this to turn into a 5 page thread of one people giving me one name here there. The higher up the scale the racing and stakes get, the less diverse the game is. Say what you want about diversity, but on Saturdays in may or in the summer, you aren't going to see very much other than older white men. You want to see diverse, watch Evangeline downs on a Thursday night.

There is a trainer out in socal, whose name I won't mention becuase I'm sure he's a good guy. but the guy is my age (28), but from England. Unless his horses are just much the best, i run the other way. The guy gets some of the best stock too. I can't help but think, or at least I ask myself, you mean to tell me there aren't any guys who have be working at santa anita for years on end that can't get go out on their own and do better than this? Guy comes from england with his accent, he was an apprentice/assistant as such and such yard (Again i won't mention) and people line up to throw him horses.

To be fair, I'm not saying that the game shuns the inclusion of others, if anything i have learned that horse racing will take it's money anywhere it can get it. But it does nothing at all to be shown in a more positive light to females or minorities. You still have people putting jockeys in confederate silks and naming their horses "mute Rudolph" that's pretty damn disturbing.

Again, I'm not saying that the sport is a bunch of closest racist (though there are some) that want nothing to do with anyone other than their own, but the sport does need to become more diverse. To grow the sport is a grass root effort. The real untapped money pool is people like myself: upper middle class African Americans with disposable income. Lucky for me, i had a father that took me to the horse track every weekend as a child, but 99.9.% of all people like me aren't as lucky. For those people, the question is why would i want to wager on a sport or go to an event that has nothing to do with me. That is the $64,000 question, and right now the current answer is " you shouldn't"

I could go on but I am getting ready to make a wager at woodbine

[Cardus]

I haven't seen "Condfederate" silks and what proof do you have -- concrete proof or even reasonable inference, not Internet Land theories -- that "Mute Rudulph" was named as such because Rudulph is black?

There are other flaws in your posts, but I have to make a wager on Saratoga.

[toussaud]

I haven't seen "Condfederate" silks and what proof do you have -- concrete proof or even reasonable inference, not Internet Land theories -- that "Mute Rudulph" was named as such because Rudulph is black?

There are other flaws in your posts, but I have to make a wager on Saratoga.
you can't be serious.


Look i'm not trying to get in an E-pissing contest with anyone today. That's just how i feel about the current state of diversity. Either take it or leave it.

[PhantomOnTour]

In the quarter horse world there are plenty of Hispanic trainers

[Hoofless_Wonder]

Horse racing has a diverse audience because it has a more diverse audience than NASCAR is not a fantastic argument.

Why not? Is there anyone out there saying that NASCAR needs to become more diverse? What about the NHL or the PGA? What makes horse racing special?

There's been lots of coverage on a related note with the NFL, and the few black owners and coaches in the history of the league. In that case the oddity is that the majority of the players are black, where as in horse racing there's already a wide diversity of race involved with the game.

I'm still not sure what point Rudulph is trying to make, but the way I read his comments "diversity" appears to be code for something......

[craigbraddick]

Toussaud:

Personally, I think racing is one of the most inclusive sports out there. Anyone with just a dime can be part of the action if they want and it is an industry where winning in the point of the game. If you are losing (no matter who you are and what you do) you try something else or give up.

Legislating diversity has never worked for very long and many HR departments I have worked with in Government, for example, hang on to their 'diversity mission statements" without ever thinking of their full implications.

The change has to come from within people as individuals. It also has to come from people willing to adapt their values somewhat to conform to their new surroundings and balance those wth their traditions they feel are important. Cultural assimilation if you will. Anyone who is not white and/or born in America will have to go through that to a greater or lesser degree to succeed in this country.

But America does give more people more opportunity than any other country I know of. And for that, we should all be thankful.

Craig.

[thaskalos]

IMO...the race track exemplifies the PUREST form of democracy known to man.

Blacks, whites, doctors, lawyers, brick layers, plumbers, welfare recipients...all gathered together, in pursuit of the next winning horse.

Every person there is judged NOT by his/her race, creed, or social standing...but by their proficiency in the game.

Justice for all...:ThmbUp:

[Irish Boy]

Is there anyone out there saying that NASCAR needs to become more diverse?
Lots of people, especially once ratings stalled.

[mannyberrios]

TVG must be big time! All this because Ken is leaving. Maybe horse racing will be allright after all

[jelly]

it's really not that diverse and all of the minorities that are associated with the game are at the lower rungs so to speak.


There are a few Hispanics that have worked their way up in the rank to be pretty good trainers, humberto ascanio of Bobby Frankel fame comes to mind, but the vast majority of trainers are white males. There aren't very many female trainers, female riders, even less owners. I can't remember the last time i saw a non white or Hispanic person in the winners circle, any winners circle. The man who owns Premier Pegasus is the only that comes to mind. not saying there aren't any at all, i don't want this to turn into a 5 page thread of one people giving me one name here there. The higher up the scale the racing and stakes get, the less diverse the game is. Say what you want about diversity, but on Saturdays in may or in the summer, you aren't going to see very much other than older white men. You want to see diverse, watch Evangeline downs on a Thursday night.

There is a trainer out in socal, whose name I won't mention becuase I'm sure he's a good guy. but the guy is my age (28), but from England. Unless his horses are just much the best, i run the other way. The guy gets some of the best stock too. I can't help but think, or at least I ask myself, you mean to tell me there aren't any guys who have be working at santa anita for years on end that can't get go out on their own and do better than this? Guy comes from england with his accent, he was an apprentice/assistant as such and such yard (Again i won't mention) and people line up to throw him horses.

To be fair, I'm not saying that the game shuns the inclusion of others, if anything i have learned that horse racing will take it's money anywhere it can get it. But it does nothing at all to be shown in a more positive light to females or minorities. You still have people putting jockeys in confederate silks and naming their horses "mute Rudolph" that's pretty damn disturbing.

Again, I'm not saying that the sport is a bunch of closest racist (though there are some) that want nothing to do with anyone other than their own, but the sport does need to become more diverse. To grow the sport is a grass root effort. The real untapped money pool is people like myself: upper middle class African Americans with disposable income. Lucky for me, i had a father that took me to the horse track every weekend as a child, but 99.9.% of all people like me aren't as lucky. For those people, the question is why would i want to wager on a sport or go to an event that has nothing to do with me. That is the $64,000 question, and right now the current answer is " you shouldn't"

I could go on but I am getting ready to make a wager at woodbine




I saw a group of Blacks in the winners circle yesterday at monmouth. :sleeping:



I thought Hispanics were white? :sleeping:

[andtheyreoff]

You still have people putting jockeys in confederate silks and naming their horses "mute Rudolph" that's pretty damn disturbing.

Wait, are you trying to say that having confederate silks and naming a horse Mute Rudolph is racist, or is it that the mere naming of a horse Mute Rudolph is racist?

If it's the latter, that sounds pretty ridiculous.

[toussaud]

Wait, are you trying to say that having confederate silks and naming a horse Mute Rudolph is racist, or is it that the mere naming of a horse Mute Rudolph is racist?

If it's the latter, that sounds pretty ridiculous.
confederate silks by themselves= maybe not the best of tastes, a la ole miss, but nothing really offensive about them. To each his own.

the name mute Rudolph by itself= meh. A guy that really doesn't care for ken Rudolph. heck I muted Ken Rudolph a few times myself over the years.

A horse with confederate silks riding a horse named mute Rudolph=the confederate silks clearly implies how the owner wishes Rudolph was muted and has strong racial undertones. The guy was banned from racing for a reason. Extremely poor taste and it's offensive.

I didn't want the thread to get off on that type of tangent. I started the thread becuase we are always talking about what we need to do to get more people interested in the sport and to wager... having different ethnicities in higher/more profile positions would do wonders IMHO.


BS aside, serious question. How many non white, what we would term here, "hard core" handicappers do you know? Outside my father, who i would not call Hard core by any stretch, I don't know any. They don't have to necessarily be whales or wagering thousands on every race, but they take it seriously, they handicap and wager accordingly.

I have a group of friends that I run with as far as horse racing goes, there are about 8 of us, I'm the 2nd youngest, and I'm damn near 30 (wow lol), but i stick out like a sore, albeit well manicured, thumb.

What concerns me more than the numbers or what not, is just the attitude towards racing in general that minorities have, at least in my experience. I can only speak for me, maybe it's different up north.

Look, no one wants to be called racist, and that is defiantly not what I am implying, don't take it there. I just think more needs to be done to try to grow the sport, not just by trying squeeze more money / purses out of what we already have, but bringing new demographics in.

I'll finish this tomorrow, gotta run

[alhattab]

IMO...the race track exemplifies the PUREST form of democracy known to man.

Blacks, whites, doctors, lawyers, brick layers, plumbers, welfare recipients...all gathered together, in pursuit of the next winning horse.

Every person there is judged NOT by his/her race, creed, or social standing...but by their proficiency in the game.

Justice for all...:ThmbUp:

I agree. The paddock at Belmont Park has to be one of the most egalitarian pieces of land around. People from all walks of life on the outside, but within 20 yards or so of some very wealthy people, bluebloods, old money, etc. I love that about the track- you really have a great mix of people.

[Cardus]

confederate silks by themselves= maybe not the best of tastes, a la ole miss, but nothing really offensive about them. To each his own.

the name mute Rudolph by itself= meh. A guy that really doesn't care for ken Rudolph. heck I muted Ken Rudolph a few times myself over the years.

A horse with confederate silks riding a horse named mute Rudolph=the confederate silks clearly implies how the owner wishes Rudolph was muted and has strong racial undertones. The guy was banned from racing for a reason. Extremely poor taste and it's offensive.

I didn't want the thread to get off on that type of tangent. I started the thread becuase we are always talking about what we need to do to get more people interested in the sport and to wager... having different ethnicities in higher/more profile positions would do wonders IMHO.


BS aside, serious question. How many non white, what we would term here, "hard core" handicappers do you know? Outside my father, who i would not call Hard core by any stretch, I don't know any. They don't have to necessarily be whales or wagering thousands on every race, but they take it seriously, they handicap and wager accordingly.

I have a group of friends that I run with as far as horse racing goes, there are about 8 of us, I'm the 2nd youngest, and I'm damn near 30 (wow lol), but i stick out like a sore, albeit well manicured, thumb.

What concerns me more than the numbers or what not, is just the attitude towards racing in general that minorities have, at least in my experience. I can only speak for me, maybe it's different up north.

Look, no one wants to be called racist, and that is defiantly not what I am implying, don't take it there. I just think more needs to be done to try to grow the sport, not just by trying squeeze more money / purses out of what we already have, but bringing new demographics in.

I'll finish this tomorrow, gotta run

Getting more people involved in the sport is absolutely necessary. Let's not focus on their skin color. That is intellectually honest and color blind.

[Tom]

The guy had a deadline and zero idea of what to write about.

[thespaah]

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/people/rudulph-diversity-still-an-issue-in-the-industry/

Just thought this was an interesting point of view. as a minority myself I tend to somewhat agree with his viewpoint. It's a great game, but there are alot of preconceived ideas about how horse racing is to the outside world that are not true. At the same time, there are some that are very much true.
Ok...I am all for putting people in places where their talents and abilities are at their highest and best use.
What I do not want to see is what boils down to a quota system.
Filling positions by raw numbers based on the inferior notion of "representation", creates mediocrity. Nobody wins and people who are deserving because of their talent and abilities become resentful. Ultimately the merits of the system by which people are hired become suspect and lose all credibility.

[thespaah]

you can't be serious.


Look i'm not trying to get in an E-pissing contest with anyone today. That's just how i feel about the current state of diversity. Either take it or leave it.
Define "diversity".

[thespaah]

Why not? Is there anyone out there saying that NASCAR needs to become more diverse? What about the NHL or the PGA? What makes horse racing special?

There's been lots of coverage on a related note with the NFL, and the few black owners and coaches in the history of the league. In that case the oddity is that the majority of the players are black, where as in horse racing there's already a wide diversity of race involved with the game.

I'm still not sure what point Rudulph is trying to make, but the way I read his comments "diversity" appears to be code for something......
I think Rulduph is taking a back handed slap at the horse racing business.
Here's the thing. I enjoyed his work. He had a straight forward approach with a little personality sprinkled in. Not schticky at all.
I never viewed his presence on TVG as of a handicapper but that as a host.

[Tom]

Yes, he was like the Ryan Seacrest of make-believe horse racing networks.
Dumb and dumber, as I like to call them. Bad host on a bad channel.
That's diverse enough for me.

[ElKabong]

I think toussaud makes a valid point.

Where are people of color employed as analysts for tracks? That would seem to be the place to start imo. The lack of Afr-Americans visible in the game in a non-betting capacity is noticable.

There are Afr-American trainers on the TX circuit, but not many. But let's not forget, anyone that passes a test can get a license to train. If you can win races owners will find you.

I think toussud posted there weren't many Latino trainers (sorry if i'm mistaken). Actually there are many in the TX / OK region.

but the absence of Afr-Americans in non betting capacities in racing is noticable & needs to be addressed. In that sense Rudolph imo is correct

[proximity]

the vast majority of trainers are white males. There aren't very many female trainers, female riders, even less owners.

perhaps you need to embrace the pennsylvania racing that you have such disdain for?

at penn national a black man, harry thompson jr, pretty much dominated the trainer standings in the 90s while females stephanie beattie and murray rojas have taken over in the last decade.

and parx features leading trainer juan carlos guerrero who wins at an incredible percentage. jayne vaders also had several great years at pha before she was ultimately kicked out for juicing.

[toussaud]

I think toussaud makes a valid point.

Where are people of color employed as analysts for tracks? That would seem to be the place to start imo. The lack of Afr-Americans visible in the game in a non-betting capacity is noticable.

There are Afr-American trainers on the TX circuit, but not many. But let's not forget, anyone that passes a test can get a license to train. If you can win races owners will find you.

I think toussud posted there weren't many Latino trainers (sorry if i'm mistaken). Actually there are many in the TX / OK region.

but the absence of Afr-Americans in non betting capacities in racing is noticable & needs to be addressed. In that sense Rudolph imo is correct
Pretty much. Also, I think I did say that the higher you get in class the less diverse racing gets.

I never said there wasn't any diversity in horse racing. But where it matters, when you get to the big stages,the Travers, the triple crown, breeders cup, it still looks like a GOBN to some. When you start getting on major networks, from the analyst on up, it's just not there. I like what versus did by hiring LP3 to do their Saratoga work. It might not seem like a lot and it';s really a non issue for us becuase we see him everyday on HRTV, but every little bit helps. He's more than capable, if not superior in some aspects in the ability to do his job.


This may seem extremely silly to some, but, people of color, all colors, need to know "hey man you can go to the breeders cup at Churchill downs if you want and you will fit right in with everyone else" and that "hey, it's okay for you to like horse racing, it's not just a sport that rich people follow".

For alot of people, those 2-3 times, heck even when they are just flipping channels are the only exposure they will get to horse racing all year. I remember clearly, last year's breeders cup, went off right about 7pm CST, and the Arkansas v. south Carolina game was on next, i answered more questions about horse racing from non horse racing people in that 10 minutes than i had all year, and the only reason they paid attention was becuase the football game was on next. In those moments, you have a chance to create a mental snapshot for people who normally do not follow racing, and it's important what you want that snap shot to be. To that person, how many trainers that might be black or Hispanic that work at lone star park in May is irrelevant.

[craigbraddick]

Pretty much. Also, I think I did say that the higher you get in class the less diverse racing gets.

I never said there wasn't any diversity in horse racing. But where it matters, when you get to the big stages,the Travers, the triple crown, breeders cup, it still looks like a GOBN to some. When you start getting on major networks, from the analyst on up, it's just not there. I like what versus did by hiring LP3 to do their Saratoga work. It might not seem like a lot and it';s really a non issue for us becuase we see him everyday on HRTV, but every little bit helps. He's more than capable, if not superior in some aspects in the ability to do his job.


This may seem extremely silly to some, but, people of color, all colors, need to know "hey man you can go to the breeders cup at Churchill downs if you want and you will fit right in with everyone else" and that "hey, it's okay for you to like horse racing, it's not just a sport that rich people follow".

For alot of people, those 2-3 times, heck even when they are just flipping channels are the only exposure they will get to horse racing all year. I remember clearly, last year's breeders cup, went off right about 7pm CST, and the Arkansas v. south Carolina game was on next, i answered more questions about horse racing from non horse racing people in that 10 minutes than i had all year, and the only reason they paid attention was becuase the football game was on next. In those moments, you have a chance to create a mental snapshot for people who normally do not follow racing, and it's important what you want that snap shot to be. To that person, how many trainers that might be black or Hispanic that work at lone star park in May is irrelevant.

Toussaud:

I love the points you made about the BC, CD and horse racing. So, as you have said you are a minority and I am going to assume for this post you are primarily black (though do correct me, if I am wrong) with your knowledge of your community, what can we do in race track marketing to reach out to this potential new fanbase?

Someone raised the issue of very few (actually none I know of) on screen presences of black people as analysts (and I would add race callers.)

I am not sure why this is. I have experienced a little prejudice (though I am not sure prejudice is the right word) but have been told by two or three tracks there is no way they would want a non-American voice. It is not unfeasible they also meant they wanted an American white voice.

Toussaud, all I can say to you is if you know of anyone of any color, male or female who wants to break into presenting or race calling, I would be happy to help them develop their skills and when they are ready invite them to call a race or do a guest bit on TV with me. Likewise, if you know any who are interested in training, I would be more than happy to help get them in touch with quality people.

Craig.

[Tom]

How did they guys who call races and are analysts get their jobs?
Maybe that would be the way to start.

[craigbraddick]

How did they guys who call races and are analysts get their jobs?
Maybe that would be the way to start.

Went to tracks to practice race calling and got experience in other kinds of broadcasting.

A few people were prepared to give me a chance (which I will never be thankful enough for) and tried hard to build my experience and get better. When I started I had to drive 3-5 hours both ways just to practice.

If you want it and have the potential to do it, someone will notice you.

Once you have called a little, send off tapes and make as many contacts as you can!

Craig

[toussaud]

How did they guys who call races and are analysts get their jobs?
Maybe that would be the way to start.
That's actually a very good point Tom.

Most of the jobs in the industry, aren't really jobs you know you really train for or go to school for. There isn't a "understanding ticket structure" class in college (wish there were) so you can learn what to and what to not do while being a TV analyst. No one goes to school (That i know of) to be a race caller. Alot of jobs you have to have worked for someone or know someone that knows someone to get.

[rastajenk]

The U of Arizona has produced several racecallers, most notably my friend the late Luke Kruytbosch. He didn't go there to learn how to be an announcer, but becoming one was his goal and he used the program to make the connections to get the gigs to develop a career. And there they do study wagering strategies and trends and marketing, etc. I know there are folks on this board that think as soon as an individual rises to racetrack management he becomes a greedy bastard or an idiot or both, but that's not really the case.

So, yeah, you can go to school to get a racing job. It worked for me, a fan of the game with absolutely no previous connections within it.

[magwell]

Ken would never have lasted 12 years if he was a white guy, they had a lot of more knowledgeable people that were let go, during the time he was there. But thats just my opinion I could be wrong.....( wouldn't be the first time) .....

[toussaud]

Toussaud:

I love the points you made about the BC, CD and horse racing. So, as you have said you are a minority and I am going to assume for this post you are primarily black (though do correct me, if I am wrong) with your knowledge of your community, what can we do in race track marketing to reach out to this potential new fanbase?

Someone raised the issue of very few (actually none I know of) on screen presences of black people as analysts (and I would add race callers.)

I am not sure why this is. I have experienced a little prejudice (though I am not sure prejudice is the right word) but have been told by two or three tracks there is no way they would want a non-American voice. It is not unfeasible they also meant they wanted an American white voice.

Toussaud, all I can say to you is if you know of anyone of any color, male or female who wants to break into presenting or race calling, I would be happy to help them develop their skills and when they are ready invite them to call a race or do a guest bit on TV with me. Likewise, if you know any who are interested in training, I would be more than happy to help get them in touch with quality people.

Craig.


Yes I am Black, technically I'm mixed but for all intents and purposes I am black.

It's not really a black issue versus white issue, I really don't think it's that cut and dry. I think it's more of a socioeconomic issue (it's still seen as a sport that rich white people follow, sorry but true)

The way I see it, it's the gift and the curse. One of the great things about horse racing is the tradition and the pageantry of the sport. Going to Churchill Downs, going to Keeneland, going to Santa Anita park, etc. But at the same time, the pageantry can have a daunting effect, it frankly scares some people off. Some people don't think they will fit in following a sport where everyone is dressed up, and everyone is rich, etc. Now we here are not silly enough to believe these misconceptions, but you will be surprised. We follow racing enough here to know that that's, 3 or 5 days out of 365 and the backbone of racing are people like us: middle class, hard working americas of all races and creeds.

I am by no means suggesting dumb down horse racing or reduce the level of pageantry, but by making an effort to be more diverse at the higher end, it's seen more as that.. pageantry, than what it is precieved to be, elitism.


A very good, analogy would be the grove. I don't know if anyone here is familiar with the grove or not but it's basically an ole miss tailgating. But they take it to an entirely new level. AT Ole mis the tailgating seriously is the event where the game is sorta like the after party. AT the grove, the men put on their best slacks and best dress shirt, and the women put on their best heels and best sunflower dresses. Finger Foods are served, as well as other high class eminaties. The pageantry is unmatched anywhere in the country. But, at the same time, they don't shun the 30 pack bud lite and BBQ tailgater either. If they did, not as many people would show up, which would probably mean not as many people would come to the actual game either.

Would it really kill ESPN/NBC to hire Christina O for their Breeders cup / Derby day coverage? It's not like she isn't good at her job. But you tune in on big days all you see are, well you get the picture.

Let me clarify: I am not saying that it is a sport that rich white people follow, I know better. I'm saying, as long as on big days, all you show are rich white people with their white trainers (and Hispanic grooms in the background taking the horse back to the barn), being interviewed by white people, then being talked about by white people on Air, and this is the only snap shot a person gets of horse racding a year, don't expect much to change.

[toussaud]

Ken would never have lasted 12 years if he was a white guy, they had a lot of more knowledgeable people that were let go, during the time he was there. But thats just my opinion I could be wrong.....( wouldn't be the first time) .....
ken would have lasted as long as he wanted to last there becuase he was the only one there with a resemblance of professional TV experience and he ran the ship. He was not there to be a handicapper, eh picked that up. He was there to manage the show. No different than when a college football game has the broadcast guy and his tag along the color commentator. You got Verne Lundquist doing the play by play, then you have usually someone like Gary Danielson who actually knows what he is talking about.

You guys are basically harping on Ken becuase he isn't a color commentator which is beyond silly. That's not nor never was his job.

[Tom]

Am I missing something?
What is the problem here?
I do not see one.

[Linny]

I have worked in "racing TV" for over 10 years, so I have understanding of this field. I don't have TVG and have rarely seen Rudolph on TV so I have no real opinion on his skills. It sounds like he's more a "TV" guy than a racing guy and there's nothing wrong with that, as long as he has knowledgeable racing co-hosts and is willing to act more as an emcee than a purveyor of information/opinion.

As for ethnic participation in racing, if you go to most tracks that are not "elite" meets, I guess that more than 1/2 of the fans are non white. I go to Aqueduct several times a year and it has a very different fan demographic from Saratoga. It's a function of location. Saratoga county is pretty white, as are surrounding communities. Head to AQU or Belmont and you see a very different crowd. I was at Saratoga every day this summer and while most of the folks in the box seats are white, a large percentage of the fans were non-caucasian.

As for employment, up to the blackout years in the 19-teens, trainers and jockeys as well as stable help were largely African American. I am not sure why there was a change but I'd guess that with the rise of true earning potential as racing became a "profession" didn't sit well with southern whites. Also, at that time,many blacks were migratng from the rural south to the urban north. Living in urban areas meant that young people had less involvement with livestock and would thus be less inclined to jobs handling horses.
When I started following the game (70's) most of the stable help was black and hispanics were making significant inroads, including Hall of Fame trainer Frank Martin who is a Cuban native along with riders like Manny Ycaza, Braulio Baeza and the "second wave" of guys like Cordero, Vasquez and Velasquez.

As mentioned, racing is a field where you have to be "involved" somewhat before being hired in most visible areas, like on air talent. Laffit Pincay is hispanic and as the son of a rider he's grown up in the sport and he was blessed with the looks and skills to handle on air situations. I don't think that tracks have intentionally avoided hiring hosts of "obvious" ethnicity, but they have not been presented with the chance to do so.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

NASCAR:
Lots of people, especially once ratings stalled.

I stand corrected - hell, there's even a web site out there.

http://www.nascardiversity.com/

Every business wants to expand their fan base - that's a given. I'm making the assumption that Rudulph is referencing other roles with horse racing:

Ownership - it's economics - an issue not restricted to horse racing
Grooms, hotwalkers - already well represented
Jockeys - not sure about this and whether the numbers are "representative"
Trainers - same as jockeys
Media Personalities - Ken was a lone wolf, okay
Handicappers - this area looks okay to me (check out Herman Miller, winner of the NHC III tournament - sat next to him at a qualifying event the following year - great guy).

So Ken is trying to make a legitimate point, he's trying to stir up controversy where there isn't any (or much of one), he's trying to portray himself in the same light of "opening doors" like Martin Luther King (which he's not), or he has some other goal or agenda in mind. Or, he could have felt obligated to make a comment from his unique perspective, and threw out the 25 cent buzzword of diversity. Of all the issues facing racing, lack of diversity ranks pretty low IMHO.

Personally, I think it's comments like this that help perpetuate racism, as it implies that something is wrong or needs correcting, when in fact the demographics may just be the result of cultural choices.

BTW - Toussaud - check out this video on Youtube when MC Hammer's "Lite Lite" prevailed in the 1991 Coaching Club American Oaks over Carl Ican's "Meadow Star".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o9dfT4mnwU

Plenty of diversity in the Belmont owner's box that day. The reaction of Shug and the gang is priceless. Too bad Hammer found religion and got out of the game - he was quite a card.:)

[GaryG]

NASCAR:


I stand corrected - hell, there's even a web site out there.

http://www.nascardiversity.com/

NASCAR is like racing in that you don't just pick it up overnight. Most of us started to be interested in racing at a young age and gained knowlenge and experience the old fashioned way. Most drivers have had a burning desire since their teens and started on the dirt tracks, many in the old "Saturday Night Specials". The PC crowd always has to have something to crusade for.

[Irish Boy]

When the guy with the Stars and Bars avatar shows up to tell me diversity isn't a problem in the sport, I know I'm sold.

[BlueShoe]

In the quarter horse world there are plenty of Hispanic trainers
At Los Alamitos, both quarters and TB's, trainers and owners with Hispanic names are commonplace, no one pays any attention to it or even notices.

[thaskalos]

ken would have lasted as long as he wanted to last there becuase he was the only one there with a resemblance of professional TV experience and he ran the ship. He was not there to be a handicapper, eh picked that up. He was there to manage the show. No different than when a college football game has the broadcast guy and his tag along the color commentator. You got Verne Lundquist doing the play by play, then you have usually someone like Gary Danielson who actually knows what he is talking about.

You guys are basically harping on Ken becuase he isn't a color commentator which is beyond silly. That's not nor ever was his job.

I don't know that Rudulph HIMSELF knew what his job was...

If he was not there to be a handicapper, then he should have refrained from providing handicapping commentary...and making a fool of himself.

I remember an incident, where he was sharing the desk with Frank Lyons and Simon Bray...trackside at a Southern California track.

Frank and Simon proceeded to analyze a given race - pointing out the "pros" and "cons" of every horse - while Ken Rudulph listened intently to their comments.

After Frank and Simon were done...Rudulph says:

"You know...this is EXACTLY what I mean when I say that shows like this are very beneficial to the viewers...because they get to hear EXPERT analysis which really brings the race into focus.

Listening to you two guys dissect the race the way you just did...I have come to realize that the 8-horse has a REAL chance of winning this race...at 24-1 odds!

Thank you!"

Lyons and Bray looked at each other in stunned disbelief...and Frank Lyons proceeded to point out to Ken Rudulph that "the 8-horse would have to improve by 10 lengths just to be considered a contender in the race."

THIS...from a man who spent TWELVE YEARS on that show?

This is what we call "professionalism"?

If you don't know...then why offer an opinion on a topic such as this?

And if you don't KNOW that you don't know...what does this say about you as a "TV professional"?

And there were plenty more moments like these...

[Tom]

When the guy with the Stars and Bars avatar shows up to tell me diversity isn't a problem in the sport, I know I'm sold.


Nice touch - attack the avatar instead of the facts.

What benefits will diversity bring to the game?
Bigger fields?
Lower take out?
Safer tracks?

[Irish Boy]

Nice touch - attack the avatar instead of the facts.

What benefits will diversity bring to the game?
Bigger fields?
Lower take out?
Safer tracks?
Wouldn't the obvious benefit be bigger handle? If more people feel welcome to bet, then more people will bet, no? Higher television ratings would help the sport too.

Rudulph essentially said that he was worried about taking the job, but found out how inviting the horse racing world was. He said he hoped that others saw that and would join the sport as well. These are controversial statements. They are just pablum. Black racing commentator hopes more black people get involved in sport of horse racing. There is nothing shocking about this whatsoever, and if he's not supposed to bring it up, then who will?

Also, if you have an avatar that easily attackable, then it deserves to be attacked. "I don't care for his picture, but Swastika Jim has a good point about raceday medication."

[Linny]

When an on air figure is not a racing "expert" he or she should make it is business to highlight and feature the skills of the experts he or she is working with.

Honestly, the person with "some knowledge" is the most difficult person to work with as they usually know just enough to ask a dopey question or comment using a term in the wrong context or some such.

[Tom]

I hardly think Rudolph was attracting fans tot he game. He kept ME from tuning into TVG.

[PaceAdvantage]

Also, if you have an avatar that easily attackable, then it deserves to be attacked. "I don't care for his picture, but Swastika Jim has a good point about raceday medication."Wow, so you equate the confederate flag with the Nazi Swastika? Interesting....

When Warner Brothers erases the confederate flag from the Dukes of Hazzard franchise (they released a movie only a few years ago and the flag was still there on the ol' "General Lee"), then I will ban the flag from this website.

[Irish Boy]

Wow, so you equate the confederate flag with the Nazi Swastika? Interesting....

When Warner Brothers erases the confederate flag from the Dukes of Hazzard franchise (they released a movie only a few years ago and the flag was still there on the ol' "General Lee"), then I will ban the flag from this website.
Where did I ask for it to be banned? I think it is a perfectly useful marker for stupidity or, at minimum, gross insensitivity.

People are free to say or represent themselves however they feel, I am free to judge them on those representations, and they are equally free to judge me. And once again, I suggest that someone with a Confederate flag avatar probably isn't particularly attuned to race relations or diversity concerns.

[Cardus]

Yes I am Black, technically I'm mixed but for all intents and purposes I am black.

It's not really a black issue versus white issue, I really don't think it's that cut and dry. I think it's more of a socioeconomic issue (it's still seen as a sport that rich white people follow, sorry but true)

The way I see it, it's the gift and the curse. One of the great things about horse racing is the tradition and the pageantry of the sport. Going to Churchill Downs, going to Keeneland, going to Santa Anita park, etc. But at the same time, the pageantry can have a daunting effect, it frankly scares some people off. Some people don't think they will fit in following a sport where everyone is dressed up, and everyone is rich, etc. Now we here are not silly enough to believe these misconceptions, but you will be surprised. We follow racing enough here to know that that's, 3 or 5 days out of 365 and the backbone of racing are people like us: middle class, hard working americas of all races and creeds.

I am by no means suggesting dumb down horse racing or reduce the level of pageantry, but by making an effort to be more diverse at the higher end, it's seen more as that.. pageantry, than what it is precieved to be, elitism.


A very good, analogy would be the grove. I don't know if anyone here is familiar with the grove or not but it's basically an ole miss tailgating. But they take it to an entirely new level. AT Ole mis the tailgating seriously is the event where the game is sorta like the after party. AT the grove, the men put on their best slacks and best dress shirt, and the women put on their best heels and best sunflower dresses. Finger Foods are served, as well as other high class eminaties. The pageantry is unmatched anywhere in the country. But, at the same time, they don't shun the 30 pack bud lite and BBQ tailgater either. If they did, not as many people would show up, which would probably mean not as many people would come to the actual game either.

Would it really kill ESPN/NBC to hire Christina O for their Breeders cup / Derby day coverage? It's not like she isn't good at her job. But you tune in on big days all you see are, well you get the picture.

Let me clarify: I am not saying that it is a sport that rich white people follow, I know better. I'm saying, as long as on big days, all you show are rich white people with their white trainers (and Hispanic grooms in the background taking the horse back to the barn), being interviewed by white people, then being talked about by white people on Air, and this is the only snap shot a person gets of horse racding a year, don't expect much to change.

Rubbish.

[Tom]

Where did I ask for it to be banned? I think it is a perfectly useful marker for stupidity or, at minimum, gross insensitivity.

People are free to say or represent themselves however they feel, I am free to judge them on those representations, and they are equally free to judge me. And once again, I suggest that someone with a Confederate flag avatar probably isn't particularly attuned to race relations or diversity concerns.


I just judged you. Guess what I think about your intelligence?

[Irish Boy]

That someone on a message board finds me unintelligent because I think representing oneself with the confederate flag is insensitive cuts to the quick.

[Tom]

You have no clue who is.
I think we know all about you, though.

[PaceAdvantage]

Where did I ask for it to be banned? I think it is a perfectly useful marker for stupidity or, at minimum, gross insensitivity.You didn't. I was just stating my position on allowing people to use that particular image as an avatar.

If it's good enough for Warner Brothers still, it's good enough for me.

[The Judge]

others in his handicapping on the show. Did he KNOW as much about handicapping as some of his co-hosts, NO, but who here actually takes anything any of these guys say seriously when it comes to picks ?

How can you handicap every race at every track everyday that's on during your shift? Rain or shine first time starters on the turf , routers sprinting , sprinters routin, scratches at the gate . It's all a big quess and he could guess as well as the next guy.

Ken appeared to have choose his own horses and stuck with his picks what more could you ask. Plus anyone that picked Giacomo in the Derby gets a lot leeway as for as I concerned.

[llegend39]

To quote Archie Bunker from a classic episode of All in the Family when preaching to the meathead:
When a colored guy needs help, he runs right to the N.A.A.C.P
When a Diego gets in trouble he jumps on a bus,hops over to Jersey to see Sinatra
When a catholic has a problem ,he's on a plane to the Pope
But who here to help me?,an ordinary tax paying white guy?

Id liked Ken but I dont think he need to bring race into the conversation.

[Canarsie]

To quote Archie Bunker from a classic episode of All in the Family when preaching to the meathead:
When a colored guy needs help, he runs right to the N.A.A.C.P
When a Diego gets in trouble he jumps on a bus,hops over to Jersey to see Sinatra
When a catholic has a problem ,he's on a plane to the Pope
But who here to help me?,an ordinary tax paying white guy?

Id liked Ken but I dont think he need to bring race into the conversation.

As one who usually avoids posts like this at all costs I will make an exception.

1. This is the greatest country in the world and it's fine to have and express differing opinions. Ken Rudulph and the person using a confederate flag avatar have an equal chance to respond. Far too many people have died defending that right.

2. Couldn't the same thing be said about golf and tennis not having diversity? The only exception was both sports had two strong willed fathers (like them or not) who prepped their kids from near childbirth to achieve greatness in their respective sports. I do recall commentators and writers saying this will open it up for other minorities and it didn't. But I think the reason was other sports offered far better opportunities.

3. At least to me there was no race barrier among gamblers. I have never seen any indication of this or has it been brought up before to my knowledge. The person I go to the track with the most happens to be black. Not once did he ever bring up race.

4. Ken Rudulph is probably tripling (at least) his salary and expanding his viewership base by a large margin. His opportunities to advance in the mainstream broadcast world could possibly be endless. He was interviewed and has the right to say whatever he pleases.

5. While most would agree he wasn't a great handicapper he did exactly what most of us want. He wagered his money and became a fan of the game. At least to me why would another player knock him all they had to do is go against his picks and eliminate a horse. You wonder why racing isn't attracting more people? Just look at the ridicule from both sides of the fence on this issue. When I used to bet baseball my main play was going against Hondo from the NY Post.Did I criticize him? Hell NO it was a great money making opportunity.

6. Last but not least I'll probably be attacked from both sides because of my post. That's not a problem because I asked for it by responding.

[Linny]

Basketball, football and baseball don't have much diversity either. Tracks in areas where there are large black or hispanic or Indian or Asian populations have high representations of those ethnicities in their fan base. Tracks in areas that are pretty lily white (Saratoga, Del Mar) don't.

If you went to Aqueduct you'd have a very differnt idea of who follows racing that someone who's only racetrack experience was Saratoga.

I never got the idea that racing was a sport for the rich white crowd. Polo fits that bill, not racing. (There are no polo fields accessible from the A train.) In fact when I was a teenager following the sport, most of the people who found out about it thought racing was for disheveled old cigar chomping men or the ethnic downtrodden that couldn't afford tickets to "legit" sports like baseball.

[PaceAdvantage]

6. Last but not least I'll probably be attacked from both sides because of my post. That's not a problem because I asked for it by responding.Attacked? For what? Your well thought out and well written reply?

Will difference of opinion count as an attack? I certainly hope not. But I'd be curious to learn what your definition of attack would be in this case.

[Show Me the Wire]

Dear Mr. Rudulph:

I wish you the best in your future position. You can be the change you want to see, be an owner. Buy a horse and convince your other minority friends to purchase race horses. In this way you will bring diversity to a sport you believes more minority representation.

BTW I always thought Mr. Rudulph did a superior job as a host.

[Tom]

Yes, Ken, if you think the game needs diversity, do something about it. Why wait to have it handed to you?

I though you sucked on the air and I think your opinion sucks off it.
You have already helped the game immensely by leaving it.

Buh bye.
Don't come back,now, ya hear?

:rolleyes:

[Canarsie]

Attacked? For what? Your well thought out and well written reply?

Will difference of opinion count as an attack? I certainly hope not. But I'd be curious to learn what your definition of attack would be in this case.

Thanks for the accolades Mike but that is part of the problem and why I don't venture into any off topic except computers and sports. I took a centrist position on this, it could easily be attacked by both sides. The right to display what you darn please and the right to take offense to it for starters. Plus its your say it really doesn't matter what others think and that's the way it should be you own the board.


Lets just say I described a politician as a mother a while back who could have done better for her child in my opinion. It wasn't really political but a real life story on my part because I lived it. I got hammered by people who were never in that situation and its their given right to express themselves. I just chose not to partake anymore and I love a good fight most times. Fifteen years ago I cost the electric company here a 1/4 million dollars. I still have the emails (my email program was Pegasus remember that?) from my first IP. on this issue. Its something I'm really proud of because my lame mayor didn't do a darn thing.

You and I even got involved in the selection thread and we both backed off me more than you. It did become a little testy if I recall correctly. So now I decided not to even post any comments there even if its a congratulatory one.

Also looked what happened when I apologized at least a half dozen times about my misquote on the betting scandal in Michigan. Even with that the person wouldn't let it go while refusing to answer my question to this day.

Plus there are so many smart people in the sports, computers, and horse threads to keep me busy. :ThmbUp:

[PaceAdvantage]

Thanks for the explanation.

[jorcus]

I really think his comment which was in response to a question, was direceted at the broadcast side of the sport. His belt buckle comment was his pre conceived notion of the sport before he got involved with it. I don't think he has an issue with minority participation in the sport which as most of us know race tracks are very diverse places socially, ethnically and economically.

TVG seemed to be a little conscious of the fact that minorities were under represented. I remember when they had Brian Cox on the show for a time.

A horse racing broadcast does not have to be made up of experts. Most of us tune out the endless drivel of the handicapping comentators on TVG or HRTV. If we are not going to listen to them anyway we might as well get more interesting people in front of the camera. I miss the old days of TVG when they let Julie Krone do the show drunk. She had to be the most unprofessional host ever on TV. She came in late, she made noises while other people were talking and interrupeted the other hosts to tell some ramble of a story that was often funny as hell. You never really knew what was going to come out of her mouth. And the whole time the other guys had to kiss her ass because of who she was. It must have been torture for some of those guys but the show was interesting. Of course the concept was new and fresh so maybe it could not continue but there was some life to it at the time. Now it seems like it's only there to get you to make a bet.


Dear Mr. Rudulph:

I wish you the best in your future position. You can be the change you want to see, be an owner. Buy a horse and convince your other minority friends to purchase race horses. In this way you will bring diversity to a sport you believes more minority representation.

BTW I always thought Mr. Rudulph did a superior job as a host.

[the little guy]

TVG seemed to be a little conscious of the fact that minorities were under represented. I remember when they had Brian Cox on the show for a time.




Brian Cox owned horses and was at the track a lot.

[Canarsie]

Let me play out this scenario for you and then I can't wait to read the responses.

You are thinking about forming a syndicate of 10-12 people to own a couple of horses. The only rule before this gets played out is that everyone but you can't be a major horse player and knows very little about the game.

After you explain the financials, risk reward ratio, whatever could possibly go wrong, the thrill of winning, the agony of a career threatening injury, partners arguing, the whole gamut. How many people do you think would get past stage 1? In my opinion not to many.

Now throw this in for any minority who just heard the impassioned speech. They look around and see that they are underrepresented, probably will take a loss, will get phone calls for more money and probably say "I rather play the market or futures at least it's me against them".

The same could be said with involvement in NASCAR even if I don't know even a small bit about it. The financial risk must be high for start ups someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

In this day an age I would hope that race or gender would not be a barrier even for one minute for a person to own a horse.

In closing why would a minority even want to get involved in the horse racing broadcast media. Look at all the jocks on ESPN it surely has to pay at bare minimum double compared to the highest paid host on TVG or HRTV.

I don't think there will be a replacement for Ken who is from the same origin. Why in the world would you want to take so much abuse for so little a salary? My hunch is its done in house and if it turns out that way TVG will close up shop by the end of 2012 unless exchange wagering is up and running by then.

[Stillriledup]

I'm not really sure what Ken is getting at....is he suggesting that racing should hire less qualified black people and leave more qualified 'other race' people on the sidelines looking in?

Or, is he saying something different and i just don't understand what he's suggesting?

[Cardus]

Let me play out this scenario for you and then I can't wait to read the responses.

You are thinking about forming a syndicate of 10-12 people to own a couple of horses. The only rule before this gets played out is that everyone but you can't be a major horse player and knows very little about the game.

After you explain the financials, risk reward ratio, whatever could possibly go wrong, the thrill of winning, the agony of a career threatening injury, partners arguing, the whole gamut. How many people do you think would get past stage 1? In my opinion not to many.

Now throw this in for any minority who just heard the impassioned speech. They look around and see that they are underrepresented, probably will take a loss, will get phone calls for more money and probably say "I rather play the market or futures at least it's me against them".

The same could be said with involvement in NASCAR even if I don't know even a small bit about it. The financial risk must be high for start ups someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

In this day an age I would hope that race or gender would not be a barrier even for one minute for a person to own a horse.

In closing why would a minority even want to get involved in the horse racing broadcast media. Look at all the jocks on ESPN it surely has to pay at bare minimum double compared to the highest paid host on TVG or HRTV.

I don't think there will be a replacement for Ken who is from the same origin. Why in the world would you want to take so much abuse for so little a salary? My hunch is its done in house and if it turns out that way TVG will close up shop by the end of 2012 unless exchange wagering is up and running by then.

Same origin? We're not all human?

[toetoe]

Not sure which walks of life are underrepresented on TVG, but they play enough awful "urban" "music" to satisfy any colored hipster or white wannabe. I cringe whenever I see my Irish brother Frank Lyons, a true neanderthal. Ken should just stick next to Frank at all times. He will look great by comparison/contrast.

Michelle is half Korean, and Cristina is Mexican. Too belt buckle ? :confused:

[Canarsie]

Same origin? We're not all human?

My mistake I used the wrong word but isn't that nitpicking? I hope one apology is ok with you. I do try to make detailed arguments for intelligent discussion but I'm only HUMAN

You couldn't bring more to the table than that? It's exactly why I stay out of these debates most of the time.

[Canarsie]

I'm not really sure what Ken is getting at....is he suggesting that racing should hire less qualified black people and leave more qualified 'other race' people on the sidelines looking in?

Or, is he saying something different and i just don't understand what he's suggesting?

I'm not sure either but the fact remains he was being interviewed this wasn't from a press release. My Governor says plenty of bloopers during press conferences I don't hold that against him. In fact I just got a google alert where he basically said Morris Bailey is "grandstanding". There were already dissenting rebuttals from other horsemen. He has the right to say whatever he damn pleases with consequences. This is coming from a guy who isn't his biggest fan.

Maybe his idea was for it to be brought to the table and debated. If that was the case he certainly has succeeded.

[Cardus]

My mistake I used the wrong word but isn't that nitpicking? I hope one apology is ok with you. I do try to make detailed arguments for intelligent discussion but I'm only HUMAN

You couldn't bring more to the table than that? It's exactly why I stay out of these debates most of the time.

Very funny response. Seriously.

I'll bring more to this: in your scenario above, it's disturbing that the "minority" looks at himself through the prism of color and hence, it affects his decision to remain in a partnership.

[Cardus]

Let me play out this scenario for you and then I can't wait to read the responses.

You are thinking about forming a syndicate of 10-12 people to own a couple of horses. The only rule before this gets played out is that everyone but you can't be a major horse player and knows very little about the game.

After you explain the financials, risk reward ratio, whatever could possibly go wrong, the thrill of winning, the agony of a career threatening injury, partners arguing, the whole gamut. How many people do you think would get past stage 1? In my opinion not to many.

Now throw this in for any minority who just heard the impassioned speech. They look around and see that they are underrepresented, probably will take a loss, will get phone calls for more money and probably say "I rather play the market or futures at least it's me against them".

The same could be said with involvement in NASCAR even if I don't know even a small bit about it. The financial risk must be high for start ups someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

In this day an age I would hope that race or gender would not be a barrier even for one minute for a person to own a horse.

In closing why would a minority even want to get involved in the horse racing broadcast media. Look at all the jocks on ESPN it surely has to pay at bare minimum double compared to the highest paid host on TVG or HRTV.

I don't think there will be a replacement for Ken who is from the same origin. Why in the world would you want to take so much abuse for so little a salary? My hunch is its done in house and if it turns out that way TVG will close up shop by the end of 2012 unless exchange wagering is up and running by then.

So, what would be the proper "representation"? What number or percentage? You must have something in mind for this scenario if you think that he is underrepresented.

[Canarsie]

Very funny response. Seriously.

I'll bring more to this: in your scenario above, it's disturbing that the "minority" looks at himself through the prism of color and hence, it affects his decision to remain in a partnership.

So, what would be the proper "representation"? What number or percentage? You must have something in mind for this scenario if you think that he is underrepresented.


Thanks for the compliment I do try to be funny most times. One time a guy next to me said in the room where I hang out 'I'm losing my shirt but you guys are so funny I'm not pissed". My friend and I always play a weird bet the loser buys lunch or dinner. Usually we bet a photo, stretch run, or show price when its a bridge jumper race. We play off each other most people like it.

It's a scenario I can't answer it at all. Could I answer this question if asked? How did your pregnancy go? That might be a little extreme but since I'm not a female or minority how can I express how they feel. I just like throwing things out for discussion as long as it doesn't resort to name calling or something similar.

I recently spoke to an old friend of mine who was found at Facebook. He is black and told me how much it meant to him that all his friends (I'm included) walked out of a restaurant that wouldn't serve him in Miami Beach. This was around 70-71 if I recall correctly. My friend (white) wanted to throw a garbage container (city property) through the window. What's my point? I would have never remembered it without him bringing it up. The facts are it was very important to him to retain in his memory bank.


Hope this reply gives you a better understanding why it can't be answered by me. One more thing is I felt very proud after he told me the story about what we did.

[jorcus]

Ken R. was quoted as saying.

"As I depart I only hope that my time here will open doors for others, diversity is still an issue in the industry, and I hope that more people from all walks of life will be represented visually on TVG and the other networks covering racing. These things matter in the grand scheme of things. I remember not wanting to take the job at TVG because I thought it was a “belt-buckle” culture that did not include me, but once I went to Los Alamitos and Hollywood Park I saw all of the different cultures and faces together trying to accomplish the same goal of picking a winner and I was sold."
I'm not really sure what Ken is getting at....is he suggesting that racing should hire less qualified black people and leave more qualified 'other race' people on the sidelines looking in?


Or, is he saying something different and i just don't understand what he's suggesting?

People are reading an awful lot into that one little paragraph. All walks of life does not = black. How do you determine who is more qualified for a TV broadcasting job?

I just think he is trying to say that the track is a diverse place, The brodcast booth should be as well since there is a wide spectrum of patrons at the track.

[Stillriledup]

Ken R. was quoted as saying.

"As I depart I only hope that my time here will open doors for others, diversity is still an issue in the industry, and I hope that more people from all walks of life will be represented visually on TVG and the other networks covering racing. These things matter in the grand scheme of things. I remember not wanting to take the job at TVG because I thought it was a “belt-buckle” culture that did not include me, but once I went to Los Alamitos and Hollywood Park I saw all of the different cultures and faces together trying to accomplish the same goal of picking a winner and I was sold."


People are reading an awful lot into that one little paragraph. All walks of life does not = black. How do you determine who is more qualified for a TV broadcasting job?

I just think he is trying to say that the track is a diverse place, The brodcast booth should be as well since there is a wide spectrum of patrons at the track.

Would it be fair to assume that since Ken is black and he appears to be the only black person on TVG (while other minorities are represented) that he's talking about black even though he doesnt specifically say the word?

As far as who's more qualified, i'd suggest starting with someone who knows a lot about horse race betting and then weed out the people who seem to have no ability to handle themselves in front of a camera.

Whether Ken was talking about black or not, the fact still remains that companies should hire the most qualified people. It seems that Ken is suggesting to cast a more talented person aside and hire based on race.

Ironically, what Ken is suggesting is more of a form of racism than if Ken just said that companies should hire the most talented people regardless of race. He's suggesting to make race a factor in hiring, which is a form of racism, no?

[llegend39]

This coming from a guy married to a beautiful blonde girl.

[PaceAdvantage]

This coming from a guy married to a beautiful blonde girl.Good for him.

And, btw, if this is true, it totally goes along with his "diversity" mantra.

The way you write this, you make it seem like he's being a hypocrite. Totally the opposite. :lol:

[toetoe]

Good for him.

And, btw, if this is true, it totally goes along with his "diversity" mantra.

The way you write this, you make it seem like he's being a hypocrite. Totally the opposite. :lol:



Lookitchew all grown up and fearlessly discussing race. Don't make me larf.

May I remind you that all that is necessary for the whining racebaiters to win is that good people like PA do nothing ? :ThmbDown:

[Please, no private messages.]

[PaceAdvantage]

Lookitchew all grown up and fearlessly discussing race. Don't make me larf.

May I remind you that all that is necessary for the whining racebaiters to win is that good people like PA do nothing ? :ThmbDown:

[Please, no private messages.]Yes, you seem to enjoy cornering the market on racial discussions...in fact, you can't seem to pass one by without saying hello...

I for one believe there are far too many racially themed threads on off-topic, which is why I removed one of yours just the other day, if I remember correctly.

[toetoe]

Yes, you seem to enjoy cornering the market on racial discussions...in fact, you can't seem to pass one by without saying hello...

I for one believe there are far too many racially themed threads on off-topic, which is why I removed one of yours just the other day, if I remember correctly.



Wow, you have slipped into fully flyblown GritsSpeak.

You for one believe there are far too many racially themed threads on Off-Topic. Well, do you now ? My dainty little racially discreet brother. I am so proud. I promise to burn a cross in your honor on the Longden Turf Course at Bay Meadows.

Actually, I shan't a'tall. I am not disposed thusly. How not, you ask ? Well, quite frankly, it seems there's altogether too much turf course crossburning in this mad world of ours. 'Twould not favor. 'Twould not favor a'tall. (:Sighing, batting eyelashes, fanning self.)

You have the moral courage of a bedbug, Sir, and all the freethinking social qualities of a mid-level Soviet apparatchik.

[PaceAdvantage]

Stop it Tee-Toe. You are impressing me far too much. Mr. Dainty won't be able to handle much more.

Moral courage? Is that what you think you represent? :lol: