View Full Version : Could Acclamation Be 2011 HOTY?
andtheyreoff
08-28-2011, 10:46 PM
He's 4-6 on the season, with 3 consecutive Grade 1 victories.
If he wins his next two, he looks like he could be a lock for the award in a year where no one has made a great case.
Thoughts?
horses4courses
08-28-2011, 10:50 PM
He's 4-6 on the season, with 3 consecutive Grade 1 victories.
If he wins his next two, he looks like he could be a lock for the award in a year where no one has made a great case.
Thoughts?
So far, I think not.
The horses he has beaten in California are not top notch.
Good horses, but not great.
He has, also, had favorable pace scenarios in his biggest wins.
That is not likely to happen in the BC Classic.
Acclamation would have to win that race to win HOTY, imo.
classhandicapper
08-29-2011, 10:55 AM
He has to be considered a leading candidate, but I can't see him winning the Classic at 10F on dirt. If he can win his next start and then perhaps beat the Euros on turf in the BC, then he could make a claim assuming the older males take turns beating each other the rest of the way and there's an upset in the Classic. He's good, but IMO he probably wasn't even best yesterday.
Robert Goren
08-29-2011, 11:37 AM
He has a good case as any other horse at this point. It isn't like any other horse is sticking out right now.
MadWorld
08-29-2011, 12:16 PM
So far, I think not.
The horses he has beaten in California are not top notch.
Good horses, but not great.
.
Where are the great horses he should have beaten though? Remember, Game on Dude finished ahead of Tizway when they met. Right now Acclamation has a G1 win at 10f plus two more G1 wins, he's at least on par if not ahead of Tizway.
toussaud
08-29-2011, 01:50 PM
So far, I think not.
The horses he has beaten in California are not top notch.
Good horses, but not great.
He has, also, had favorable pace scenarios in his biggest wins.
That is not likely to happen in the BC Classic.
Acclamation would have to win that race to win HOTY, imo.
where are all these top notch horses you speak of on the east coast?
JeremyJet
08-29-2011, 04:31 PM
He has to be considered a leading candidate, but I can't see him winning the Classic at 10F on dirt. If he can win his next start and then perhaps beat the Euros on turf in the BC, then he could make a claim assuming the older males take turns beating each other the rest of the way and there's an upset in the Classic. He's good, but IMO he probably wasn't even best yesterday.
Isn't this where you're supposed to chime in with an opinion on the calibre of the field, classhandicapper?
This field was very weak. I don't know what the Beyer is, but it seems to me that only the top two ran higher than a 100 Beyer. I would guesstimate the Beyer will come back at around a 103. Pretty sad for a race such as this.
JeremyJet
08-29-2011, 05:23 PM
CJ must be frantically searching for answers on his speed charts to explain how a G1 race for a million dollars can come back so slow. ;)
CJ must be frantically searching for answers on his speed charts to explain how a G1 race for a million dollars can come back so slow. ;)
That was fast by Delmar polytrack standards. This has been going on for a few years now. Welcome to the party.
JeremyJet
08-29-2011, 05:28 PM
That was fast by Delmar polytrack standards. This has been going on for a few years now. Welcome to the party.
Fast? Don't you mean par ... at best?
Fast? Don't you mean par ... at best?
Final Times, Pacific Classic, polytrack:
2011: 2:00.61
2010: 2:03.27
2009: 2:02.39
2008: 2:01.18
2007: 2:07.29
And no, I didn't look those up before the previous post.
Stillriledup
08-29-2011, 06:17 PM
where are all these top notch horses you speak of on the east coast?
Um, sitting in the barn not racing because they're scared of a little wind and rain? :D
horses4courses
08-29-2011, 07:07 PM
Final Times, Pacific Classic, polytrack:
2011: 2:00.61
2010: 2:03.27
2009: 2:02.39
2008: 2:01.18
2007: 2:07.29
And no, I didn't look those up before the previous post.
Still figuring Twirling C. at 300-1 for the BCC, cj?
He wouldn't be much more than 15-1 on my current line, and he is pretty lightly raced for a 4yo.
I think his best distance is 8-9 furlongs, but.....
Should have won yesterday, really. Not Rosario's best ever ride.
Depending on how he comes out of the Goodwood at SA, who knows?
Twirling Candy has a shot in the BCC.
He won't be favorite, but he has a shot......
horses4courses
08-29-2011, 07:13 PM
where are all these top notch horses you speak of on the east coast?
Only Tizway has been impressive at the top level, so far.
Is 10 furlongs his best distance? Probably not.
We'll find out down the road if Stay Thirsty is a Saratoga specialist, and if he stacks up against older horses.
Twirling Candy just about sees out the trip.
Game On Dude deserves another chance.
Acclamation has no stamina limitations, and a pretty high cruising speed.
Maybe the west is the best in 2011?
Still figuring Twirling C. at 300-1 for the BCC, cj?
He wouldn't be much more than 15-1 on my current line, and he is pretty lightly raced for a 4yo.
I think his best distance is 8-9 furlongs, but.....
Should have won yesterday, really. Not Rosario's best ever ride.
Depending on how he comes out of the Goodwood at SA, who knows?
Twirling Candy has a shot in the BCC.
He won't be favorite, but he has a shot......
Twirling C. has no chance, so sure, 300 to 1, 3000 to 1, doesn't matter.
horses4courses
08-29-2011, 10:09 PM
Twirling C. has no chance, so sure, 300 to 1, 3000 to 1, doesn't matter.
You heard it here, folks......Twirling Candy has no chance in the 2011 BCC.
Would someone down Del Mar way be kind enough to pass that on to John Sadler, et al.?
Much obliged....... ;)
You heard it here, folks......Twirling Candy has no chance in the 2011 BCC.
Would someone down Del Mar way be kind enough to pass that on to John Sadler, et al.?
Much obliged....... ;)
No problem. Tell Sadler he is suspect on dirt, and even more suspect at 10f.
JeremyJet
08-29-2011, 11:33 PM
Final Times, Pacific Classic, polytrack:
2011: 2:00.61
2010: 2:03.27
2009: 2:02.39
2008: 2:01.18
2007: 2:07.29
And no, I didn't look those up before the previous post.
What's this all about? I'm talkin' the Beyer par.
depalma113
08-30-2011, 05:49 AM
He's 4-6 on the season, with 3 consecutive Grade 1 victories.
If he wins his next two, he looks like he could be a lock for the award in a year where no one has made a great case.
Thoughts?
He'd have to beat Cape Blanco for any shot at the Turf Championship. So I guess based on that he couldn't be HOY without at least getting the turf title first.
There is no way he runs in any dirt race.
What's this all about? I'm talkin' the Beyer par.
I don't know or care what the Beyer was. It was fast by Delmar standards.
PhantomOnTour
08-30-2011, 10:43 AM
The Beyer for the Pac Classic is a 105.
MadWorld
08-30-2011, 11:17 AM
No problem. Tell Sadler he is suspect on dirt, and even more suspect at 10f.
He has a Track Record on dirt and two very solid showings in his only two 10f races.
toussaud
08-30-2011, 11:36 AM
You heard it here, folks......Twirling Candy has no chance in the 2011 BCC.
Would someone down Del Mar way be kind enough to pass that on to John Sadler, et al.?
Much obliged....... ;)
does Twirling Candy wear blinkers? I think he could benefit by adding blinkers.
PhantomOnTour
08-30-2011, 11:51 AM
He has a Track Record on dirt and two very solid showings in his only two 10f races.
Where?
His record shows no wins on dirt, and his only actual start on dirt was in the CT Classic.
Poly ain't dirt.
MadWorld
08-30-2011, 12:32 PM
Where?
His record shows no wins on dirt, and his only actual start on dirt was in the CT Classic.
Poly ain't dirt.
The qoute was from CJ who was referring to Twirling Candy. Twirling Candy set a track record in the Malibu, won the Strub easily, and then had that horrible trip in the SA Handicap which is basically a toss.
Acclamation did have another dirt start though where he finished second but I don't know where it was.
MadWorld
08-30-2011, 12:33 PM
does Twirling Candy wear blinkers? I think he could benefit by adding blinkers.
He used to before the Californian Win. They took them off before that race.
He has a Track Record on dirt and two very solid showings in his only two 10f races.
If you think any of his dirt races show he can win the BC Classic, which is what I'm addressing, good luck with that.
MadWorld
08-30-2011, 01:16 PM
If you think any of his dirt races show he can win the BC Classic, which is what I'm addressing, good luck with that.
Three Dirt Starts:
1st - Breaks 30 year old Track Record
2nd - Extremely Easy win in G2 over an easy field
3rd - Rank and then completely clobbered in the stretch makes the race basically a toss to evaluate his dirt form.
What there says he can't handle dirt? It's very likely he is better on dirt than the other surfaces.
postpicker
08-31-2011, 12:32 AM
Three Dirt Starts:
1st - Breaks 30 year old Track Record
2nd - Extremely Easy win in G2 over an easy field
3rd - Rank and then completely clobbered in the stretch makes the race basically a toss to evaluate his dirt form.
What there says he can't handle dirt? It's very likely he is better on dirt than the other surfaces.
http://www.drf.com/news/del-mar-acclamation-unlikely-try-dirt
When the connections say that the BC Turf would be their first preference IF they go to the BC, I think that says it all on what they think Acclamation can do on regular dirt. Plus, more often than not the Euros kick the butt of US horses in BC Turf races. To see a US based horse wire the field in the BC Turf is something I doubt we will see at CD this year.
letswastemoney
08-31-2011, 12:40 AM
Three Dirt Starts:
1st - Breaks 30 year old Track Record
2nd - Extremely Easy win in G2 over an easy field
3rd - Rank and then completely clobbered in the stretch makes the race basically a toss to evaluate his dirt form.
What there says he can't handle dirt? It's very likely he is better on dirt than the other surfaces.
Spectacular Bid ran on a different dirt surface, I don't get how they compare to each other. Wouldn't a horse have to run on the pre 2007 Santa Anita dirt surface to count as beating that record?
MadWorld
08-31-2011, 01:08 AM
http://www.drf.com/news/del-mar-acclamation-unlikely-try-dirt
When the connections say that the BC Turf would be their first preference IF they go to the BC, I think that says it all on what they think Acclamation can do on regular dirt. Plus, more often than not the Euros kick the butt of US horses in BC Turf races. To see a US based horse wire the field in the BC Turf is something I doubt we will see at CD this year.
My Post was in regards to Twirling Candy. It would be fun to see Acclamation try a fast dirt track again but the smart thing is probably to point for one of the BC turf races.
MadWorld
08-31-2011, 01:13 AM
Spectacular Bid ran on a different dirt surface, I don't get how they compare to each other. Wouldn't a horse have to run on the pre 2007 Santa Anita dirt surface to count as beating that record?
The official dirt record for 7F at Santa Anita is held by Twirling Candy and before he won on last year was held by Spectacular Bid. I doubt there is much of the same dirt at Belmont as there was when Secretariat won but he still holds the record for 1 1/2 there too. Any way we want to look at it, Twirling Candy is very fast on dirt.
Did that 30 year old record fall the same time a few others did as well, the first week of the new track and it was basically paved?
MadWorld
08-31-2011, 08:55 AM
Did that 30 year old record fall the same time a few others did as well, the first week of the new track and it was basically paved?
It was a very fast track that had a strong bias toward speed and Twirling Candy rallied from farther back than any other horse that day (just 2 1/2 lengths though). Regardless, it was a G1 win over a good field and coupled with his Strub win and it's very clear he likes dirt and may actually be his best on that surface.
His Pacific Classic and Hollywood Gold Cup Races show 10f isn't much of an issue, especially considering those performances may not be on his preferred surface.
Still figuring Twirling C. at 300-1 for the BCC, cj?
He wouldn't be much more than 15-1 on my current line, and he is pretty lightly raced for a 4yo.
I think his best distance is 8-9 furlongs, but.....
Should have won yesterday, really. Not Rosario's best ever ride.
Depending on how he comes out of the Goodwood at SA, who knows?
Twirling Candy has a shot in the BCC.
He won't be favorite, but he has a shot......
I'll give 3,000 to 1 now. 300,000 to 1 if you like.
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