The loser guy at the track

[DigitalDownsJoe]

Any of you run into these situations??There is always the creeper guy who rarely has money at the track but always has the hot pick of the day. He comes up to you and starts blabbering and wants you to split a 1 dollar exacta box with him. Or he will ask you for a dollar or two. Do you guys give money out to these guys? I hate it when the loser is in front of me in line, and he throws a few bucks down on the horse that I am about to bet. Im like OMG why is he betting my horse..LOL I just try and hide in some corner somewhere where no one will find me. Sadly enough, they always do.. How do you all handle the bums at the track?

[ArlJim78]

I wager from my living room. I don't have to deal with bums, smokers, distracting people, overpriced food, tellers with poor attitudes, etc.

[DigitalDownsJoe]

I like the ability to cancel a wager, you cant do that online right?

[Pell Mell]

I like the ability to cancel a wager, you cant do that online right?

You can on TS and NJ Bets..

[HUSKER55]

They are called hustlers for a reason.

[1st time lasix]

i live in a van down by the river

[JustRalph]

I like the ability to cancel a wager, you cant do that online right?

I do it all the time on TSpires

[mannyberrios]

Send him to hell! On Horseplayersbet you can cancel also!

[Edward DeVere]

i live in a van down by the river

Lucky you. I'm under the bridge in the remnants of a refrigerator box.

[wisconsin]

Lucky you. I'm under the bridge in the remnants of a refrigerator box.

At least you have a box!

[Dave Schwartz]

I like the ability to cancel a wager, you cant do that online right?

If one were to make a list of all the advantages and disadvantages of playing online (i.e. at home) vs at the track, for me this would be far most important.

This could make for an interesting pros & cons thread.

For me the advantages of being at the track are:

camaraderie
being "at the track"
excitement of the live race



The advantages of being at home are:

no distractions
great food at great prices
easy access to odds via web
easy access to results via web
easy access to telephone
no admission
bet with just a couple of clicks

[toussaud]

Any of you run into these situations??There is always the creeper guy who rarely has money at the track but always has the hot pick of the day. He comes up to you and starts blabbering and wants you to split a 1 dollar exacta box with him. Or he will ask you for a dollar or two. Do you guys give money out to these guys? I hate it when the loser is in front of me in line, and he throws a few bucks down on the horse that I am about to bet. Im like OMG why is he betting my horse..LOL I just try and hide in some corner somewhere where no one will find me. Sadly enough, they always do.. How do you all handle the bums at the track?
easy. you ask him for money. that will put an end to the pestering instantly.

[Dave Schwartz]

easy. you ask him for money. that will put an end to the pestering instantly.

That's perfect! (and hilarious.)

[thespaah]

Any of you run into these situations??There is always the creeper guy who rarely has money at the track but always has the hot pick of the day. He comes up to you and starts blabbering and wants you to split a 1 dollar exacta box with him. Or he will ask you for a dollar or two. Do you guys give money out to these guys? I hate it when the loser is in front of me in line, and he throws a few bucks down on the horse that I am about to bet. Im like OMG why is he betting my horse..LOL I just try and hide in some corner somewhere where no one will find me. Sadly enough, they always do.. How do you all handle the bums at the track?Paying the couple extra bucks for clubhouse admission drastically reduces the chance of running into these people

[Blenheim]

If one were to make a list of all the advantages and disadvantages of playing online (i.e. at home) vs at the track, for me this would be far most important.

This could make for an interesting pros & cons thread.

For me the advantages of being at the track are:


camaraderie
being "at the track"
excitement of the live race


The advantages of being at home are:


no distractions
great food at great prices
easy access to odds via web
easy access to results via web
easy access to telephone
no admission
bet with just a couple of clicks



Does TV provide critical visual information?

How is the horse acting? What about his disposition coming to and in the paddock? Is he relaxed or on the muscle? Sweatin' or not? Any signs of kidney sweat? Chompin' at the bit? How do the hoofs look? Any negatives in the conformation? How did he take to the tack? While walking around the paddock did you notice a limp? How is he reacting to other horses, particularly when he walks by or near another top contender? Does the horse act superior to others? And what about his trainer, handlers and owners, do they act like they've saddled a winner? Does the trainer act like he has got a live one? What about the jockey, does he act like he is about to mount a winner and how does the horse react to the jockey, negative or positive? How does the horse react to the crowd? Did the horse get a good long warm up . . .

Nothin' like being there.

[Dave Schwartz]

How is the horse acting? What about his disposition coming to and in the paddock? Is he relaxed or on the muscle? Sweatin' or not? Any signs of kidney sweat? Chompin' at the bit? How do the hoofs look? Any negatives in the conformation? How did he take to the tack? While walking around the paddock did you notice a limp? How is he reacting to other horses, particularly when he walks by or near another top contender? Does the horse act superior to others? And what about his trainer, handlers and owners, do they act like they've saddled a winner? Does the trainer act like he has got a live one? What about the jockey, does he act like he is about to mount a winner and how does the horse react to the jockey, negative or positive? How does the horse react to the crowd? Did the horse get a good long warm up . .

To each his own.

So, if one uses physicality, one MUST be at the track. I'll stick with MY advantages.


There is not a single item in YOUR list that has anything to do with the way I handicap.

Again, I say, "To each his own."


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[thaskalos]

Does TV provide critical visual information?

How is the horse acting? What about his disposition coming to and in the paddock? Is he relaxed or on the muscle? Sweatin' or not? Any signs of kidney sweat? Chompin' at the bit? How do the hoofs look? Any negatives in the conformation? How did he take to the tack? While walking around the paddock did you notice a limp? How is he reacting to other horses, particularly when he walks by or near another top contender? Does the horse act superior to others?

Are you an animal psychologist? :)

[Blenheim]

To each his own.

So, if one uses physicality, one MUST be at the track. I'll stick with MY advantages.


There is not a single item in YOUR list that has anything to do with the way I handicap.

Again, I say, "To each his own."


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

Visuals are critical to the handicapping process.

A horse that looks good on paper may look miserable in the paddock, can't know that watching TV. I've found that TV does not spend enough time on the horse I'm be interested in, so I miss vital infomation and communication I could garner being there.

Your at home list appears to make handicapping easier - I think not and quite the contrary, not being at the track makes handicapping more difficult.

[Dave Schwartz]

And the guy who follows trainer connections may think we are both out to lunch.

[HoofedInTheChest]

I think they both have there advantages and disadvantages, for me i prefer being at home. I have more tools at my disposal when i'm at home, not having a desk at the track drives me nuts, two notepads, program, ipad, assorted markers and so on... But the biggest thing for me is the peace and quiet, listening to two a-holes argue over Zenyatta's trip in the last classic for over an hour makes me want to go postal. I need the peace and quiet to make good decisions, i turn a better profit at home then i do at the track...... yes i'm easily aggravated.
But on the same hand i really like going to the track, hanging out in the paddock, enjoying the horses and the event, but i rarely do alot of betting when i'm there.
Back to the original poster...... there are quite a few degenerates at Woodbine that like to hang over your shoulder or just come right out and ask, who do you like? I usually reply... the brown one!

[ArlJim78]

to me the paddock appearance or visual aspect cannot be quantified and is pretty much totally useless information. its time consuming and completely subjective, unless you can show me that you have horse whisperer type qualities.

I rank it well below breeding although a little higher than picking them by their color. if thats the core of your game then you're also limited to one track per day and you must live near a track in order to play. no thanks

[Robert Fischer]

it's an individual thing

some people can see horses as well as they would see a football player, and others are better off not looking for any physical clues at all...

[dav4463]

I like meeting weird characters!

[PaceAdvantage]

Visuals are critical to the handicapping process.Not quite. They're criticial to YOUR handicapping process. This doesn't mean they are critical to another person's handicapping process.

Making that distinction is vital to the discussion.

[Canarsie]

I like playing at home seeing ones physical appearance is important but so is peace of mind. Within the next 3 years I expect that issue to be completely resolved the cost factor won't be that much. Many tracks have live feeds now if a horse is washed out or acts up that info is visible.

Her's a story about when I went to the track and the distractions that can go on. I usually sit in the room at the Meadowland where they hold the contests. I'm sitting at my seat and my phone rings it's the girl at the desk assigning seats. She tells me she's having a FB problem ( a few years ago) and could I fix it. I was doing this :bang: trying to explain to her what she needs to do. Finally I said "can you leave me in peace and quiet for a bit I want to lose some of my money". Lots of people heard it and cracked up.

On the plus side she always gave me promo stuff for helping her but she was a royal PITA sometimes.

[eastie]

Are you an animal psychologist? :)


you don't have to be one to see one hoss stare down the competition. Champions hate the oppisition. They look at them with contempt.

[rastajenk]

That may be, but most races don't involve champions.

[castaway01]

And the guy who follows trainer connections may think we are both out to lunch.

Yes, I do. Well, not so much you Dave, since I know you have something that works, but the other guy. I would only screw myself up by trying to interpret a horse's physical appearance. I'd rather stay home, except for a few days when I attend big events for fun, but don't worry about making money because I want to hang out with my friends.

[On Spec]

If I'm betting simulcast, visuals aren't important.

If I'm at the track betting a live race in front of me, I play animal detective, layered onto my previous handicapping.

I'm getting better at the horse whisperer stuff (mostly tossing those that look uninterested), but no animal psychologists will be calling me soon.

[Blenheim]

to me the paddock appearance or visual aspect cannot be quantified and is pretty much totally useless information. its time consuming and completely subjective, unless you can show me that you have horse whisperer type qualities.

I rank it well below breeding although a little higher than picking them by their color. if thats the core of your game then you're also limited to one track per day and you must live near a track in order to play. no thanks

You raise an interesting point and I agree, can't quantify how a horse is acting and I do agree that being at the track limits one to that track per day. On the other hand the numbers don't tell us everything and if a handicapper is hitting a good percentage of winners at the local track, why play any other?

Once again, visuals are critical to the handicapping process - what handicapper would bet on a fractious and nervous horse; a horse sweating or washed out; a horse that is limping; a horse that reacts negatively to the tack; a horse that acts negatively to the rider up and any other myriad negative signs. "The paddock and the walking ring are where experts make their final decisions about the winning changes of horses." (Ainslie)

The handicapper at the track getting visual information prior to making a bet has the edge over the handicapper watcing TV at home where the information is limited. And, needless to say, staying at home making your bets reeks of laziness, takes the fun out of horseracing, dosen't promote the game or help the local track.

Get back out to the racetrack, you'll likely pick more winners and enjoy the game much more!

[hugh]

Some of the best information from the paddock doesn't come from the horses.
Especially on relatively cheap claimers and some maidens.... look at the folks surrounding the horse. How are they dressed.. do they seem confident... are they doting over their animal ect...
In this sport, the people who are spending the most time and money almost always win.

[magwell]

I've said this many times, watching the horses in the paddock and warming up is the last edge in the game.......:cool:

[Pine Tree Lane]

Any of you run into these situations??There is always the creeper guy who rarely has money at the track but always has the hot pick of the day. He comes up to you and starts blabbering and wants you to split a 1 dollar exacta box with him. Or he will ask you for a dollar or two. Do you guys give money out to these guys? I hate it when the loser is in front of me in line, and he throws a few bucks down on the horse that I am about to bet. Im like OMG why is he betting my horse..LOL I just try and hide in some corner somewhere where no one will find me. Sadly enough, they always do.. How do you all handle the bums at the track?

Sorry I bothered you...

[raybo]

You raise an interesting point and I agree, can't quantify how a horse is acting and I do agree that being at the track limits one to that track per day. On the other hand the numbers don't tell us everything and if a handicapper is hitting a good percentage of winners at the local track, why play any other?

Once again, visuals are critical to the handicapping process - what handicapper would bet on a fractious and nervous horse; a horse sweating or washed out; a horse that is limping; a horse that reacts negatively to the tack; a horse that acts negatively to the rider up and any other myriad negative signs. "The paddock and the walking ring are where experts make their final decisions about the winning changes of horses." (Ainslie)

The handicapper at the track getting visual information prior to making a bet has the edge over the handicapper watcing TV at home where the information is limited. And, needless to say, staying at home making your bets reeks of laziness, takes the fun out of horseracing, dosen't promote the game or help the local track.

Get back out to the racetrack, you'll likely pick more winners and enjoy the game much more!

I go to the track rarely, and when I do, I never wager. Track visits are for entertainment purposes only. Handicapping and wagering are strictly business, for me, and being at the track is a huge negative in that regard.

"Laziness"? Hardly! I guarantee you I work harder, more efficiently, and probably more profitably than you, playing at home. It's a matter of focus, and I find it impossible to focus in the environment of the track. Quiet, solitude, comfort, convenience, and tool availability trump "physicality" hands-down, for me.

[Producer]

Visuals are critical to the handicapping process.

A horse that looks good on paper may look miserable in the paddock, can't know that watching TV. I've found that TV does not spend enough time on the horse I'm be interested in, so I miss vital infomation and communication I could garner being there.

Your at home list appears to make handicapping easier - I think not and quite the contrary, not being at the track makes handicapping more difficult.


The thing about physicality handicapping is you have to know how the horse has looked and acted prior to their previous races and workouts. To just make a general statement or to think that because a horse looks nervous, is washed out, or looks "miserable" as you put it, the horse wont run its best race today is false.

With horses shipping from all over the country to run in races, it's hard to do this on a consistent basis. At most tracks you will be restricted to betting on strictly claimers and you can forget about betting any of the top meets in which horses ship from all over to run.

[NY BRED]

Biggest issue being at home is not having the ability to crticize the
mutual clerk for making an error on your bet,

:eek: :lol: :eek:

[Dave Schwartz]

...because I want to hang out with my friends.


Castaway,

You nailed that. :ThmbUp:

I just experienced this at Saratoga. It is why I didn't want to bet too much money. It is a fun endeavor - get hooked a couple of somethings (you fill in the blank) and it is no longer about the friends.

Dave

[The Hawk]

Does TV provide critical visual information?

How is the horse acting? What about his disposition coming to and in the paddock? Is he relaxed or on the muscle? Sweatin' or not? Any signs of kidney sweat? Chompin' at the bit? How do the hoofs look? Any negatives in the conformation? How did he take to the tack? While walking around the paddock did you notice a limp? How is he reacting to other horses, particularly when he walks by or near another top contender? Does the horse act superior to others? And what about his trainer, handlers and owners, do they act like they've saddled a winner? Does the trainer act like he has got a live one? What about the jockey, does he act like he is about to mount a winner and how does the horse react to the jockey, negative or positive? How does the horse react to the crowd? Did the horse get a good long warm up . . .

Nothin' like being there.

Did you overpay for admission? For parking? How about sodas, beers, or food? Did you have to use a disgusting bathroom? How about getting exotic will-pays? You missed them the first time? Too bad. How much did it cost you in tolls? Was it humid, crowded? Does the guy next to you stink like a hobo, or shout "ONE TIME!!" over and over again? What about the traffic? Did you get shut out by some dope punching out $1 exacta boxes for the whole entire card? Did you leave your voucher in the machine? Did a "vulture" scoop it? Or, maybe you use the teller? Mispunched often? Wrong change? Never seems to be in your favor, does it?

Yeah, nothing like being there.

Also, this horse whisperer thing: How does this help you when betting Pick 3's and Pick 4's, outside of Leg 1? Many of use focus on these plays, making this method useless. I don't dismiss it as an effective handicapping tool, but you are talking about a specialized skill that very, very few possess, and can master. If you can, you have an edge, and by all means you should exploit it.

[pondman]

How do you all handle the bums at the track?

I see it as entertainment... not any worse than my lebowski friends bumming a beer. It's a circus-- people laughing at the old guy with toilet paper streaming out his pants.

[On Spec]

The thing about physicality handicapping is you have to know how the horse has looked and acted prior to their previous races and workouts. To just make a general statement or to think that because a horse looks nervous, is washed out, or looks "miserable" as you put it, the horse wont run its best race today is false.

Amen. Wasn't this point made well in one of the Triple Crown races?

[toussaud]

Also, this horse whisperer thing: How does this help you when betting Pick 3's and Pick 4's, outside of Leg 1? Many of use focus on these plays, making this method useless. I don't dismiss it as an effective handicapping tool, but you are talking about a specialized skill that very, very few possess, and can master. If you can, you have an edge, and by all means you should exploit it.



which is percisly why i don't play muti race wagers.


but you bring up a point i have been thinking about for a while and have kept to myself, but i think this is a good time to kinda let it out.

the way we make wagers now in muti race bets, is archaic and needs to be revamped, but can't be revamped until the vast majority of wagers can be made electronically if not all.

what you should be able to do, is you should be able to say, i'm playing the pick 6 at santa anita. i should be able to put in a pre determined amount, say 240 bucks. before the race goes off, i should be able to pick that wager only. then the next race, i should be able to make how many ever picks i want and so on and so forth. if you did this, pick 6 and other exotic wagers would skyrocket.

not only that, the last few weeks here we have had people "ripped off" by various tracks becuase of horses being scratched and cancellations and what not. this would put an end to all that instantly. no more having to take the fav if you like him or not if yo horse scraches in the 4th leg of a pick 6

[thaskalos]

which is percisly why i don't play muti race wagers.


but you bring up a point i have been thinking about for a while and have kept to myself, but i think this is a good time to kinda let it out.

the way we make wagers now in muti race bets, is archaic and needs to be revamped, but can't be revamped until the vast majority of wagers can be made electronically if not all.

what you should be able to do, is you should be able to say, i'm playing the pick 6 at santa anita. i should be able to put in a pre determined amount, say 240 bucks. before the race goes off, i should be able to pick that wager only. then the next race, i should be able to make how many ever picks i want and so on and so forth. if you did this, pick 6 and other wagers would skyrocket.

not only that, the last few weeks here we have had people "ripped off" by various tracks becuase of horses being scratched and cancellations and what not. this would put an end to all that instantly. no more having to take the fav if you like him or not if yo horse scraches in the 4th leg of a pick 6

Yes...but the PAYOFFS of these wagers would plummet.

[toussaud]

Amen. Wasn't this point made well in one of the Triple Crown races?
I have a theory on this as well. I don't even consider it a theoy anymore for me it's pretty much a handicapping rule as i see it time and time again.

in a race in which there is no physical standpoint, the horse that goes to the lead and grabs the race by the balls will win 8 out of 10 times, becuase no one will catch him, unless there is a horse in the field that is just that much better than the rest of the horses, which happens but not as often as you may think.



perfect example, yesterday at calder, Ribo Bobo, horse that came in 2nd to astrology in the grade 2 at churchill last year, has been running up the track in race after race. i think the horse got beat a combined 15 lenghts his last 2 starts.

i pay attention to how the horses look and act and no horse really just stood out to me as one that i really just thought "wow i really like what i am seeing". there was a 3/5 shot in the race, ribo bobo was the 2nd longest shot at i think 10 to 1, horse just guns to the lead, and even though he was tiring and going every way but straight at the end of the race, the other horses could not catch up to him.

If the fav was ready to run his race, Ribo bobo would have been toast.

i can't explain it but it makes perfect sense to me.

Shackleford is not a viable example and people look at that to discredit the "theory" of being able to judge horses by looking at them or at least come to some type of determination as to what they see, but the question you have to ask is, who exactly was going to catch him regardless of how bad he looked? you still have to pass horses and if he's on the front well, bye.


My point is, looking at a horse and saying 'okay he's going to win' is quite stupid. you have to put it in context with what else you see from every other horse.

[toussaud]

Yes...but the PAYOFFS of these wagers would plummet.
which would mean you are hitting more of them.

[thaskalos]

I have a theory on this as well. I don't even consider it a theoy anymore for me it's pretty much a handicapping rule as i see it time and time again.

in a race in which there is no physical standpoint, the horse that goes to the lead and grabs the race by the balls will win 8 out of 10 times, becuase no one will catch him, unless there is a horse in the field that is just that much better than the rest of the horses, which happens but not as often as you may think.

perfect example, yesterday at calder, Ribo Bobo, horse that came in 2nd to astrology in the grade 2 at churchill last year, has been running up the track in race after race. i think the horse got beat a combined 15 lenghts his last 2 starts.

i pay attention to how the horses look and act and no horse really just stood out to me as one that i really just thought "wow i really like what i am seeing". there was a 3/5 shot in the race, ribo bobo was the 2nd longest shot at i think 10 to 1, horse just guns to the lead, and even though he was tiring and going every way but straight at the end of the race, the other horses could not catch up to him.

If the fav was ready to run his race, Ribo bobo would have been toast.

i can't explain it but it makes perfect sense to me.

NOTHING wins 8 out of 10 times in this game...it just SEEMS that way sometimes.

And don't forget...we have to pick these "surprise" pace-setters BEFORE the race starts.

[brdman12]

I used to love going to the track...arlington ..hawthorne..sportsmans.....its the tracks that have pushed me into staying home, not the people who go there.

[toussaud]

i go on big days when there are good races and pretty women in nice dresses. otherwise i can stay home.wh en i go to the track, it's for the enjoyment. i rarely even gamble seriously at the track anymore

[raybo]

which is percisly why i don't play muti race wagers.


but you bring up a point i have been thinking about for a while and have kept to myself, but i think this is a good time to kinda let it out.

the way we make wagers now in muti race bets, is archaic and needs to be revamped, but can't be revamped until the vast majority of wagers can be made electronically if not all.

what you should be able to do, is you should be able to say, i'm playing the pick 6 at santa anita. i should be able to put in a pre determined amount, say 240 bucks. before the race goes off, i should be able to pick that wager only. then the next race, i should be able to make how many ever picks i want and so on and so forth. if you did this, pick 6 and other exotic wagers would skyrocket.

not only that, the last few weeks here we have had people "ripped off" by various tracks becuase of horses being scratched and cancellations and what not. this would put an end to all that instantly. no more having to take the fav if you like him or not if yo horse scraches in the 4th leg of a pick 6

Wouldn't it be easier to just parlay 3, 4, 6 races? that way you can use your "physicality" stuff, and, pick which races you want to include in your parlay. And, you wouldn't have to worry about hundreds of other players having the same tickets and you only getting a very small piece of the pie.

Why enter into a Pick 6 when you're up against so much competition, especially when there's a carry over involved, when you could pick and choose which races you want included?

I venture to say that you would hit parlays far more often than Picks, so whatever decrease in payouts there might be, would be more than compensated for by the increase in hit rate.

Just a thought.

[toussaud]

Wouldn't it be easier to just parlay 3, 4, 6 races? that way you can use your "physicality" stuff, and, pick which races you want to include in your parlay. And, you wouldn't have to worry about hundreds of other players having the same tickets and you only getting a very small piece of the pie.

Why enter into a Pick 6 when you're up against so much competition, especially when there's a carry over involved, when you could pick and choose which races you want included?

I venture to say that you would hit parlays far more often than Picks, so whatever decrease in payouts there might be, would be more than compensated for by the increase in hit rate.

Just a thought.

technically yes but sometimes the pool amount is more than the parlay. in days there are carryovers in particular a parlay cannot touch what can possibly be made via an actual say pick 6.

i do not play muiti race exotics unless it's for 100% entertainment. just saying that this is what it would take for me to take it seriously.

[thespaah]

I go to the track rarely, and when I do, I never wager. Track visits are for entertainment purposes only. Handicapping and wagering are strictly business, for me, and being at the track is a huge negative in that regard.

"Laziness"? Hardly! I guarantee you I work harder, more efficiently, and probably more profitably than you, playing at home. It's a matter of focus, and I find it impossible to focus in the environment of the track. Quiet, solitude, comfort, convenience, and tool availability trump "physicality" hands-down, for me.
Given the dramatic decline in on-track attendance at most meets, the terms "quiet" and "solitude" would seem to apply.

[Valuist]

The thing about physicality handicapping is you have to know how the horse has looked and acted prior to their previous races and workouts. To just make a general statement or to think that because a horse looks nervous, is washed out, or looks "miserable" as you put it, the horse wont run its best race today is false.

With horses shipping from all over the country to run in races, it's hard to do this on a consistent basis. At most tracks you will be restricted to betting on strictly claimers and you can forget about betting any of the top meets in which horses ship from all over to run.

I don't think thats true. Yes, there will be exceptions but horses who walk short, have a dull coat and who seem uninterested will win less than their fair share of races. I don't believe you have to have a 10 race history on each horse to make accurate observations.

[KingChas]

How do you all handle the bums at the track?

I give them my empty beer cans.

[toussaud]

I don't think thats true. Yes, there will be exceptions but horses who walk short, have a dull coat and who seem uninterested will win less than their fair share of races. I don't believe you have to have a 10 race history on each horse to make accurate observations.
i'm glad you quoted this. actually i find the opposite to be true. i can count the amount of claiming races i have wagered on this year on one hand. i don't touch low class races.

i generally pick 6-8 races to wager from across the country, they are usually turf allowance/stakes races or very high class synthetic races. i don't like races on dirt, not that i don't like them my ROI doesn't like them lol. My bread and butter races are higher class turf races which is why i tend to wager on tracks like woodbine, del mar, Arlington park. Basically if you are wagering on these races i'm taking your money.

[Saratoga_Mike]

i'm glad you quoted this. actually i find the opposite to be true. i can count the amount of claiming races i have wagered on this year on one hand. i don't touch low class races.

i generally pick 6-8 races to wager from across the country, they are usually turf allowance/stakes races or very high class synthetic races. i don't like races on dirt, not that i don't like them my ROI doesn't like them lol. My bread and butter races are higher class turf races which is why i tend to wager on tracks like woodbine, del mar, Arlington park. Basically if you are wagering on these races i'm taking your money.

I'll keep that in mind.

[thaskalos]

i'm glad you quoted this. actually i find the opposite to be true. i can count the amount of claiming races i have wagered on this year on one hand. i don't touch low class races.

i generally pick 6-8 races to wager from across the country, they are usually turf allowance/stakes races or very high class synthetic races. i don't like races on dirt, not that i don't like them my ROI doesn't like them lol. My bread and butter races are higher class turf races which is why i tend to wager on tracks like woodbine, del mar, Arlington park. Basically if you are wagering on these races i'm taking your money.
No wonder I was having such a hard time with the turf races at Woodbine and Arlington.

I wish I knew this sooner...

[Robert Fischer]

the champ is here

toussaud boombayay

[magwell]

I always had a feeling somebody from PA was taking my money when ever I played turf races at Arlington, finally the truth is known......:rolleyes:

[Robert Fischer]

It's not limited to woodbine, del mar, Arlington park either :eek:

this effect also happens @ tracks like the above venues. :bang:


I remember betting a very high class synthetic race at Keeneland. Big Mistake. :mad:

[Robert Fischer]

The thing about physicality handicapping is you have to know how the horse has looked and acted prior to their previous races and workouts. To just make a general statement or to think that because a horse looks nervous, is washed out, or looks "miserable" as you put it, the horse wont run its best race today is false.

With horses shipping from all over the country to run in races, it's hard to do this on a consistent basis. At most tracks you will be restricted to betting on strictly claimers and you can forget about betting any of the top meets in which horses ship from all over to run.

I don't think thats true. Yes, there will be exceptions but horses who walk short, have a dull coat and who seem uninterested will win less than their fair share of races. I don't believe you have to have a 10 race history on each horse to make accurate observations.

this is a good exchange of opinions, and it is a classic debate on physicality handicapping. :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

Ideally you would have an ongoing book for a a certain meet specific group (maybe NY state-breds for example)

I do agree with Valuist that certain conditioning signs can be significant without a book on a horse.

For most players, they would be better off spending the time and energy on improving their core game, than to start going off into physicality capping. For some it will naturally be a part of their game. Probably both groups would like to think that their way is ultimately the wiser.

A dramatic sign of physical condition can be meaningless to me in certain situations and in other situations it may be the basis of a play.

[statepierback]

I will go on track socially {Maybe twice a year} or if there is a contest involved. Other than that home is the place to be. I can't stand people bogarting the windows betting ten cent supers.
As for the hustlers at the track, I just tell them to ---- off.

[trying2win]

[QUOTE=PaceAdvantage]Not quite. They're criticial to YOUR handicapping process. This doesn't mean they are critical to another person's handicapping process./QUOTE]

I agree! :ThmbUp:

T2W

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~"As for worrying about what other people might think - forget it. They aren't concerned about you. They're too busy worrying about what you and other people think of them."

--Michael le Boeuf