Training bills??

[Not4Love]

Can anyone tell me approx. what it costs to have a standardbred in training? Thanks.

[sonnyp]

Can anyone tell me approx. what it costs to have a standardbred in training? Thanks.

it depends on the circuit. which one ?

[Not4Love]

I'm interested in Ohio, Indiana and NY. Thanks

[sonnyp]

I'm interested in Ohio, Indiana and NY. Thanks


i know nothing about indiana or ohio but i can tell you about metropolitan new york.

the bills of the top trainers consist of a per diem to the trainer. this covers his fee, groom, bedding and feed. in addition, i've seen trainers bill workmans' comp for the grooms directly to the owners. a horse needs to be equipped (harness, jog cart, feed tub etc). the owner either buys them or aan equipment rental fee is charged on a monthly basis.

because the tracks are doing away with stable areas to cut their costs, many horses are stabled at private training centers which adds stall rent on a monthly basis and shipping to the track when the horse races.

vet bills,shoeing and special services such as treadmill or swimming are charged as needed.

when the horse races a flat rate paddock fee is paid to the groom, and 5% of what the horse earns is paid to both the trainer and driver.

in 1990, the last year i trained, my monthly bills to my owners started to begin to reach the $3,000/month level. this was one of the reasons i got out because at that point a horse needed to earn $30,000 (10 mos. active training) just to break even on the bills for the owners. take a quick look at the record portion of the PP's and see how many are making a profit or even paying their way.

i've heard some of the top guys training now send out bills of $5,000/month or more. i've heard the vet bills have become astronomical.

[baconswitchfarm]

I had a friend who sent three horses to a top ten guy in pa. de. and nj. They made 160k between them and he lost money , not to count what he paid for the horses. Most owners do much worse. It's a tough game.

[Idrivetrotters]

When I had my training barn at Pompano Florida, I had a day fee of $35 a day with my avg per start was $600 and that was 5-6 years ago.

That included shavings, feed, grooms pay, and hay, owners were responsible for vet bills (mine averaged $200 a month per horse, better than the top trainers who average $1,000 per month vet bills) equipment for the horse ie: bridles, harness, boots, leg paints etc, paddock fees, and farrier bills. I did ask my owners to tip out the groom if they won esp if it was a big race.

I had a flat monthly fee for training babies.

The ROI for Standardbreds is so much higher than Thoroughbreds, and the ability to see your horse race weekly is always nice.

I know some of the larger outfits charge $55 to $75 per day but I think in Indiana/Ohio area you should find a good trainer for $45 or so a day.

Best of luck and enjoy!

[Not4Love]

http://www.harnesslink.com/www/Article.cgi?ID=87095. After reading Bill Finleys article : Standardbred vs. Thoroughbred, I was curious what the bills might be like. Thank you too everyone for your insight. Wondering if others had a chance to read it. Not4Love

[Not4Love]

When I had my training barn at Pompano Florida, I had a day fee of $35 a day with my avg per start was $600 and that was 5-6 years ago.

That included shavings, feed, grooms pay, and hay, owners were responsible for vet bills (mine averaged $200 a month per horse, better than the top trainers who average $1,000 per month vet bills) equipment for the horse ie: bridles, harness, boots, leg paints etc, paddock fees, and farrier bills. I did ask my owners to tip out the groom if they won esp if it was a big race.

I had a flat monthly fee for training babies.

The ROI for Standardbreds is so much higher than Thoroughbreds, and the ability to see your horse race weekly is always nice.

I know some of the larger outfits charge $55 to $75 per day but I think in Indiana/Ohio area you should find a good trainer for $45 or so a day.

Best of luck and enjoy!



Just wodering what you meant by "$600 per start" . Is that the cost of "running" per start or are you talking ROI (money earned). Thanks.

[sonnyp]

http://www.harnesslink.com/www/Article.cgi?ID=87095. After reading Bill Finleys article : Standardbred vs. Thoroughbred, I was curious what the bills might be like. Thank you too everyone for your insight. Wondering if others had a chance to read it. Not4Love


i tried training both. biggest difference is durability. harness are "iron horses" compared to runners. also, if a harness horse goes off form or gets injured, most times dropping a few classes gets you back to being competitive. when the runners go bad, they can't beat anybody. dropping classes doesn't usually help that much.

a big negative with the harness is post position draw and racing luck. you get in those streaks where all you get are 10 holes and boxed or parked and no matter how good you are, you're racing for nothing.

it's a tough way to make a buck either way with more downs than ups. when you do get a good one though, it seems so easy.

i'll say this about the great horses. a bad trainers can screw one up, and a good trainer allows them to realize their greatness. the day they're born they either are or aren't.

[Saratoga_Mike]

i tried training both. biggest difference is durability. harness are "iron horses" compared to runners. also, if a harness horse goes off form or gets injured, most times dropping a few classes gets you back to being competitive. when the runners go bad, they can't beat anybody. dropping classes doesn't usually help that much.

a big negative with the harness is post position draw and racing luck. you get in those streaks where all you get are 10 holes and boxed or parked and no matter how good you are, you're racing for nothing.

it's a tough way to make a buck either way with more downs than ups. when you do get a good one though, it seems so easy.

i'll say this about the great horses. a bad trainers can screw one up, and a good trainer allows them to realize their greatness. the day they're born they either are or aren't.

Truer words have never been spoken! Any thoughts on why this is? Is the pacing/trotting gait just easier on a horse?

[sonnyp]

Truer words have never been spoken! Any thoughts on why this is? Is the pacing/trotting gait just easier on a horse?


it starts in the breeding and the conformation. harness horses are heavier boned and have stronger ligaments and tendons. don't forget, they were originally bred to pull wagons.

another difference is the difference in attitude and mentality of the 2 breeds. harness horses are, generally, more docile and will allow you to work with them and help them. runners are much more high strung and nervous and sometimes are their own worst enemies.

no question, the all out gallop is more demanding and destructive, especially on lead changes and the depth of the runner track, while helping with concussion, takes a toll on soft tissue like tendons and ligaments. the runners have been bred so finely, and to generate so much speed they have compromised their ability to carry their weight at that speed and stay together.

[Idrivetrotters]

I agree, I was on TB tracks before jumping ship to Standards and I have never regretted it. I love TBs but they are their own worst enemies, while a STB will be a very patient horse.

STBs are heavier boned, more muscled, stronger/thicker tendons/ligaments, are still bred for endurance and racing, TBs anymore are bred to be sales horses and not runners.

My ROI was $600 and more, I do admit STB racing is more streaky than TB racing, but, if you get a bad draw or bad luck you got next week,not next month or so. I could take bad racing luck knowing I got another week to make it up, TBs you are lucky if you can keep them racing every 21 days, but the avg TB races 6 times a year. That is just too few starts for me, my STBs averaged 32 starts a year and over $35K a year.

My "best" weekend I had 5 fillies and 2 geldings got 3 wins, 3 seconds, and a third, not a bad weekend. I've rarely raced out of the money, I almost always got a piece of the purse.

[pandy]

I notice that there are quite a few people who own thoroughbreds and train them themselves, often homebreds. Many of them do well.

I wonder why more harness owners don't just train the horse themselves. Training is not rocket science. I knew a guy who owned a couple of cheap claimers, pacers, and he trained them on the paved road near his rural PA. home. His win percentage was usually over 10%.

Of course you have to have the time and you still have to either rent stalls or space from someone's farm. But you would save a ton of money paying those high trainer fees.

[sonnyp]

I notice that there are quite a few people who own thoroughbreds and train them themselves, often homebreds. Many of them do well.

I wonder why more harness owners don't just train the horse themselves. Training is not rocket science. I knew a guy who owned a couple of cheap claimers, pacers, and he trained them on the paved road near his rural PA. home. His win percentage was usually over 10%.

Of course you have to have the time and you still have to either rent stalls or space from someone's farm. But you would save a ton of money paying those high trainer fees.


i never had the bank roll to back myself as an owner. say you put out $50-60,000 for a couple to try to compete with the big boys, and a couple bad steps and you're done.

the other thing.......if you don't have the juice, you're wasting your time.

[cecil127]

Pandy, dont give me any more ideas than i already have:D

[wilderness]

I wonder why more harness owners don't just train the horse themselves.

Bob,
I'm sure your aware that you just don't throw the harness on and ask them to go?
Sure you may buy one already racing and the performance will flatten out after a while, however then what'll ya do?

They require foundation miles, care and lots of damn work. Not everybody is willing to spend that much time.

You might look at some fairs and see the pittance that many working owners horses have for earnings, and wonder why they spend the time and dollars to carry on family bloodlines.

[sonnyp]

many owners are successful business people. they believe the principles that made them a success in their business will work in racing horses. unfortunately, those principles don't always apply to horses.

i never met an owner that didn't think he was a trainer.

[Saratoga_Mike]

many owners are successful business people. they believe the principles that made them a success in their business will work in racing horses. unfortunately, those principles don't always apply to horses.

i never met an owner that didn't think he was a trainer.

I'm not? :)

[Idrivetrotters]

I met a few TB owners who also trained, and a lot of trainers would have a few that they owned, but I know a lot more Standardbred people who own and train than TB people.

Training a TB is a lot more expensive to do yourself unless you can ride, finding an exercise rider willing to either come to your farm (the easiest and cheapest way of training) or willing to get on 1or 2 is very hard to find, especially if they are any good.

Training STBs is a lot more time intensive, my STBs jogged 5-7 miles a day plus a training mile, and factor in a two trip training day and there goes half your day. If you have a job that allows it, great, but not a lot of people have that kind of flexible schedule.

Plus, keeping those legs healthy is a full time job. If you can rub a STB you are way ahead of the game than just having your trainers license.