Q&A: Andy Serling

[Canarsie]

Apologies if this was posted already Mike can merge it and give me a stern warning.

The co-host of the New York Racing Association’s simulcast wagering show, he also co-hosts the prerace "Talkin’ Horses" handicapping segment as well as the "National Racing Report" and "Trips and Traps."

http://www.drf.com/news/qa-andy-serling

[onefast99]

Very nice interview.

[Cardus]

One reason that the interview is terrific is that Privman asked questions particular (or applicable) to Serling.

It is not a generic "Q&A".

[the little guy]

I feel this thread would get a lot more play if I was a hot babe.

[Robert Fischer]

we are lucky to have Serling as an active member.

What are the factors you consider most essential when handicapping a race?
http://www.drf.com/news/qa-andy-serling
How a race figures to be run is essential to me. Finding the best horses suited to the expected dynamics is more important, sometimes, than finding the best horse or horses. I also look for horses that, because of recent race situations, weren’t able to run at their best, where in today’s race that may not be the case. And vice-versa − horses that are not as good as recent running lines make them look.

this is good stuff.

[On Spec]

I feel this thread would get a lot more play if I was a hot babe.

You're not?

[Stillriledup]

Excellent interview, i enjoyed reading that.

Question about the pick 6s. I see that you're going partners with some people and i read something about 2k being the usual amount that you spend? (depending on size of carryover, etc.). Please talk about the decision that goes into partnering up in pick 6s with other people, and why you decided to not just pursue the big pick 6 jackpots on your own. Also, i'd assume that if you have partners, do those people want some kind of handicapping input on the pick 6 tickets or do they just defer to your opinion and structuring of the final ticket(s)?

Thanks.

[Canarsie]

I feel this thread would get a lot more play if I was a hot babe.

I will bow down on my knees if you can get a copy of the 1970 Ladies Handicap video put up anywhere. :jump:

[netbet]

Excellent interview.

[JimG]

Really enjoyed the interview with Andy. My favorite part was about his Dad taking him to Saratoga and when he walked in he knew he was "home". I felt the exact same way when my Dad took me to Charles Town as a kid.

Jim

[v j stauffer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HagzTRmUBIE

[jorcus]

Really enjoyed the interview with Andy. My favorite part was about his Dad taking him to Saratoga and when he walked in he knew he was "home". I felt the exact same way when my Dad took me to Charles Town as a kid.

Jim

It has been the opposite with me. My parents would never think of going to the track and after 20 or so years they have started to come with me to Saratoga for a day while I am there. My mother bets a little and my father will not bet at all but he says some really funny stuff. His best one this year was when the water truck with the Coors logo went rolling by.

"Why are they spraying beer on the track"

At least I knew he was kidding unlike some of the others in the seats around us.

[speed]

I feel this thread would get a lot more play if I was a hot babe.
I remember a few days in the 90's over at Gulfstream you would arrive after a morning at the beauty salon. Hair flowing like a super model. What a babe i would think to myself. :eek:

[tribecaagent]

I have no idea about Mr. Serling's feelings toward strippers or beauty salons, however, I have a funny feeling he has a burning desire to cash the pick-6 on Thursday with the “Serling Syndicate”

[speed]

I have no idea about Mr. Serling's feelings toward strippers or beauty salons, however, I have a funny feeling he has a burning desire to cash the pick-6 on Thursday with the “Serling Syndicate”
I have a burning desire to hit the pick 6 tomorrow and then spend some of it on strippers. On second thought perhaps the burning is from the last stripper :) .

[classhandicapper]

I feel this thread would get a lot more play if I was a hot babe.

Let face it, most of us only watch the show to see Maggie. ;)

[BMustang]

While you have the most wonderful job in the world, doing the same thing over and over, especially in the winter talking about state-bred maiden claimers on the inner, must really get old, and talking about the same handicapping angles several times a day at different venues must get a bit boring as well.

I'm smart enough to know that you virtually see first hand every race that is run in New York over the course of the year, and as such realize that you are much smarter than me when it comes to "class comparison" and trips etc., and to take advantage of your wisdom.

My specific areas of "handicapping Serling" are to take advantage of some of your predjudices against some shippers (they don't run in New York so they can't possibly be any good - lol!) and your pretty much total disregard for baby races (always seem to be guessing, unless you are being dumb like a fox). A copy of Mauzer's books and a copy of Sire Stats puts one in a very advantageous position in this area.

Incidentally, regardless of what Formulator says about Asmussen - he is very good wih firsters, especially here in Kentucky and specifically at Keeneland with 2yo's going 4 1/2 furlongs. Like anything else, you have to pick your spots.

Leo Underhill, an old River Downs public handicapper was out of a similar mold. His favorite saying was that he spent 33% of his money on the horses, 33% on booze and babes, and the rest he spent foolishly! :cool:

Keep up the good work!

[the little guy]

and your pretty much total disregard for baby races (always seem to be guessing, unless you are being dumb like a fox). A copy of Mauzer's books and a copy of Sire Stats puts one in a very advantageous position in this area.






Is this a compliment?

By the way, I disagree with the second part....and do PLENTY of work on baby races even though I rarely bet them ( assuming we are discussing ones full of exclusively first time starters ). I would never suggest people bet horses based on the information you are suggesting. Never.

[EJXD2]

By the way, I disagree with the second part....and do PLENTY of work on baby races even though I rarely bet them ( assuming we are discussing ones full of exclusively first time starters ). I would never suggest people bet horses based on the information you are suggesting. Never.

You cite trainer stats all the time on Talking Horses and during pre-race discussions with Jason. Why are you not a believer in sire stats as useful information?

[cj]

You cite trainer stats all the time on Talking Horses and during pre-race discussions with Jason. Why are you not a believer in sire stats as useful information?

I'll take a shot...very little value these days.

[pktruckdriver]

Let face it, most of us only watch the show to see Maggie. ;)


Yeah when you guys going to let Her do some real handicapping, she has the pedigree for it. Just a thought.


Patrick

[cj]

Yeah when you guys going to let Her do some real handicapping, she has the pedigree for it. Just a thought.


Patrick

Being around horses does not necessarily mean someone can or will be a good handicapper...it just makes some of them think they are.

[Cardus]

Yeah when you guys going to let Her do some real handicapping, she has the pedigree for it. Just a thought.


Patrick

Did you listen to her Colonial Downs shows when she had to handicap as well?

She is excellent doing what she does now: confirmation, physical appearance, and to a lesser extent, pedigrees. She is an excellent addition because of these qualities.

[lamboguy]

Being around horses does not necessarily mean someone can or will be a good handicapper...it just makes some of them think they are.no value huh? i got $21.80 on a horse at saratoga that should have been $2.80! and i got it on a good day too, the whitney. i couldn't ask for anything more. thank you dick dutrow, and thank you nyra for giving me the shot to get it all.

and special thanks to THERESA POMPEY for bringing the horse to saratoga to give me the shot at their great pari mutual pools

[cj]

no value huh? i got $21.80 on a horse at saratoga that should have been $2.80! and i got it on a good day too, the whitney. i couldn't ask for anything more. thank you dick dutrow, and thank you nyra for giving me the shot to get it all.

and special thanks to THERESA POMPEY for bringing the horse to saratoga to give me the shot at their great pari mutual pools

And how did the sire play into that? Wasn't this about Sire Stats? I wasn't saying there is no value in baby races.

[lamboguy]

i don't care about sire's dam's stats or numbers. i care about how horses train. when horses train like king kong, they run just like him. when a 2 yo out works a good 3 year old i run to the window's as fast as i can get there. i been doing this for the last 30 years and the system seems to work just fine. before anyone try's to do what i have been doing they better learn what to look for!

[Dexter M]

i don't care about sire's dam's stats or numbers. i care about how horses train. when horses train like king kong, they run just like him. when a 2 yo out works a good 3 year old i run to the window's as fast as i can get there. i been doing this for the last 30 years and the system seems to work just fine. before anyone try's to do what i have been doing they better learn what to look for!

another thread all about you

[cj]

i don't care about sire's dam's stats or numbers. i care about how horses train. when horses train like king kong, they run just like him. when a 2 yo out works a good 3 year old i run to the window's as fast as i can get there. i been doing this for the last 30 years and the system seems to work just fine. before anyone try's to do what i have been doing they better learn what to look for!

I think that was the point the little guy was making. All you did was take it as an opportunity to post another one of your many redboards lately.

[Cardus]

another thread all about you

Sharp post!

[proximity]

lately.

isn't this the same gentleman that owns an adw, has won grade I races from the comfort of his home, and (cherry on top of sundae) even knows steffany baytee?

[lamboguy]

I think that was the point the little guy was making. All you did was take it as an opportunity to post another one of your many redboards lately.no redboard good buddy, i posted this before the race. thank you

[lamboguy]

another thread all about you
just a stupid question, but are you the same dexter m that blew up the ubet chat board 7 years ago and they had to close it down because of you?


my memory didn't go that bad now did it?

[Dexter M]

just a stupid question, but are you the same dexter m that blew up the ubet chat board 7 years ago and they had to close it down because of you?


my memory didn't go that bad now did it?

you just totally made that up.

[cj]

no redboard good buddy, i posted this before the race. thank you

But why bring it up here? It had absolutely nothing to do with the thread. Did you even read the other posts?

[lamboguy]

But why bring it up here? It had absolutely nothing to do with the thread. Did you even read the other posts?i am sorry i did something wrong with this thread. i wish you the best.

[cj]

i am sorry i did something wrong with this thread. i wish you the best.

I wish you the best as well, I'm just curious what prompted it. If you prefer to just bow out and try to make me look like the bad guy that is fine. I am used to it.

[lamboguy]

I wish you the best as well, I'm just curious what prompted it. If you prefer to just bow out and try to make me look like the bad guy that is fine. I am used to it.
i don't want to argue, i should have known better not to post on this thread, its my fault and i admit. i have no problem admitting when i am wrong, i am wrong plenty so i guess i am used to it.

i know you have a tough job regulating this board, and probably underpaid, i really don't want to make it any tougher for you.


also if you don't like my post's here or think they are unapropriate, just tell me and i promise i will never make another post on this board that might ruffle yours or anyone elses feathers.

[cj]

i don't want to argue, i should have known better not to post on this thread, its my fault and i admit. i have no problem admitting when i am wrong, i am wrong plenty so i guess i am used to it.

i know you have a tough job regulating this board, and probably underpaid, i really don't want to make it any tougher for you.


also if you don't like my post's here or think they are unapropriate, just tell me and i promise i will never make another post on this board that might ruffle yours or anyone elses feathers.

It isn't like that at all. I don't care about having my feathers ruffled. I just pointed out that you quoted me and responded out of context and it went downhill from there.

[lamboguy]

i swear to god cj, i am not that smart. i really had a tough time making it through high school. i don't want to iriritate you or anyone else. most people on this board are highly technical people, they know how to read numbers and are probably much better handicappers than myself. it often amazes me how some of these come up with their winning selections. when it comes to handicapping i really don't know anything.

its not my goal to hog a thread or have the need to defend myself. its your candystore here and you can do whatever you want, i am just a guest.

[PaceAdvantage]

i swear to god cj, i am not that smart. i really had a tough time making it through high school. i don't want to iriritate you or anyone else. most people on this board are highly technical people, they know how to read numbers and are probably much better handicappers than myself. it often amazes me how some of these come up with their winning selections. when it comes to handicapping i really don't know anything.

its not my goal to hog a thread or have the need to defend myself. its your candystore here and you can do whatever you want, i am just a guest.Just go with the flow. When someone questions you, don't cry and threaten to take your ball and go home. Man up... :lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

I suppose if nobody else wants to bring this thread back on topic, I will close it shortly...

I don't talk about it much lately, but it still sucks when threads are taken off topic and I'm forced to close them as a result...

[lamboguy]

i bet horses all day, i don't really have the time to fight battles all the time.

i told the moderator that i am sorry that i brought this thread off topic. i can't do any more.

[PaceAdvantage]

i told the moderator that i am sorry that i brought this thread off topic. i can't do any more.I didn't think I asked you to do more...anyway, carry on...

[lamboguy]

I didn't think I asked you to do more...anyway, carry on...
i didn;t mean you

[Saratoga_Mike]

In the interest of bringing the thread back on topic, "just to let you know they usually come in pairs." Good line.

[Cardus]

I relished "frenzied obnoxiousness".

[Broad Brush]

I really do not understand some of the comments I see posted here
directed at A. Serling. I follow NYRA everyday and still think he is very talented.

From what I see he understands a basic of this game that a lot who post here do not:
This game is not about "picking winners"--it is about backing horses who's
odds of winning are higher than their chances of winning.

He has strong opinions--yes. Who does not?? That is what makes the game go around.

[the little guy]

In the interest of bringing the thread back on topic, "just to let you know they usually come in pairs." Good line.

That's funny. Wasn't I in the line at Hattie's with my favorite friend, who has since left town, when I said that?

[thaskalos]

I really do not understand some of the comments I see posted here
directed at A. Serling. I follow NYRA everyday and still think he is very talented.

From what I see he understands a basic of this game that a lot who post here do not:
This game is not about "picking winners"--it is about backing horses who's
odds of winning are higher than their chances of winning.

He has strong opinions--yes. Who does not?? That is what makes the game go around.
If I had to guess, I would place Andy Serling's approval rating as a handicapper at over 80% on this board...and the few posters who criticize him are just pulling his leg, IMO.

The man is obviously a first-rate handicapper...and he really shines in a question and answer format.

It's a real pleasure to hear (read) the thoughts of a top handicapper who has both...vast knowledge AND eloquence...

[big frank]

If I had to guess, I would place Andy Serling's approval rating as a handicapper at over 80% on this board...and the few posters who criticize him are just pulling his leg, IMO.

The man is obviously a first-rate handicapper...and he really shines in a question and answer format.

It's a real pleasure to hear (read) the thoughts of a top handicapper who has both...vast knowledge AND eloquence... i agree,,, it is funny but i rarely play the same horses as Andy ,,, but i always give them a second look and respect his opinion and his quest for value.. Thanks andy for steering me off Stat on monday in the sar special .... On paper he looked tough ,,,, then you gave your reasoning and i jumped all over Union Rags... I love handicapping a card and then hearing your opinions and seeing if i missed any kind of bad trip or track bias i might have missed,,, Keep up the good work little guy

[riskman]

a top handicapper who has both...vast knowledge AND eloquence...

One thing I do not need from tlg is eloquence.
No persuasion needed that would disrupt my confidence to continue my special capacity to pick losers :) .

[duncan04]

But why bring it up here? It had absolutely nothing to do with the thread. Did you even read the other posts?


Its been happening a lot lately. just browse some of the other threads.

[v j stauffer]

i don't care about sire's dam's stats or numbers. i care about how horses train. when horses train like king kong, they run just like him. when a 2 yo out works a good 3 year old i run to the window's as fast as i can get there. i been doing this for the last 30 years and the system seems to work just fine. before anyone try's to do what i have been doing they better learn what to look for!

Are you sure Faye Ray can make weight?

[BMustang]

Is this a compliment?

By the way, I disagree with the second part....and do PLENTY of work on baby races even though I rarely bet them ( assuming we are discussing ones full of exclusively first time starters ). I would never suggest people bet horses based on the information you are suggesting. Never.

Response to #18.

I think with some basic knowledge of who scores with first time starters and who doesn't, which sires produce precocious babys, and an evaluation of who is live and who isn't, one can make some very reasonable wagers which will result in profitable multi-race tickets. I.e. I've learned from you that Pletcher is not good with first time turfers and that AP Indys don't win at 6f or under.

I also know that Shug, Zito, and Lucas are not good propositions with firsters, and I can check my DRF stats to see who wins with firsters and who doesn't.

Perhaps I'm the only one on the planet who welcomes baby races and does well with them, or maybe I'm just lucky, but I found Thursday's card extremely boring without a 2yo race sprinkled in. I feel I have no real edge in races with horses that have established form, but create an edge by being knowledgable about babies, especially FTStarters.

Incidentally, I'm honored that you commented on my post, even if it was to disagree. :)

[Saratoga_Mike]

That's funny. Wasn't I in the line at Hattie's with my favorite friend, who has since left town, when I said that?

I thought you were with your son or nephew.

[the little guy]

I thought you were with your son or nephew.


Actually, he's me....30 plus years ago.

[Light]

It's a real pleasure to hear (read) the thoughts of a top handicapper who has both...vast knowledge AND eloquence...



I ask you, what good is it if you are as knowledgeable as a walking encyclopedia and as smooth a talker as a snake oil salesman if you still end up in the red? Please don't tell me he helps your perspective of the race because a negative ROI cannot create a positive one. And he has a long and proven record as a negative ROI public handicapper any way you slice it.

[fiveouttasix]

Can you name a public Handicapper picking every race that has a positive ROI?
I'm sure he does not bet every race. ( well not sure...assuming)

[the little guy]

I ask you, what good is it if you are as knowledgeable as a walking encyclopedia and as smooth a talker as a snake oil salesman if you still end up in the red? Please don't tell me he helps your perspective of the race because a negative ROI cannot create a positive one. And he has a long and proven record as a negative ROI public handicapper any way you slice it.


I understand you're just expressing your unhappiness with yourself...but my ROI on my top selection is actually positive for all of 2011....and also at each track individually. You, in your desperate need to cut others down in a sad attempt to convince yourself that you aren't as hopeless as you clearly are, have no idea how difficult this is to achieve. And, the interesting thing really is that we aren't about picking winners, per se, but actually discussing the races in order to stimulate interest and discussion.

But, hey, keep fighting the bad fight. It's what makes you you.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Actually, he's me....30 plus years ago.

Your son? Or a smart-ass (smart-ass is good) with an interest in horse racing?

[Light]

I understand you're just expressing your unhappiness with yourself...

Your ego is massive. Because I stated a fact about your score as a public handicapper,that somehow means I am unhappy with myself? What in the world do you have to do with my happiness? So if I gave you a good score,that would mean I'm happy with myself? You have just made my point about your eloquence.You may sound good to yourself or others but what you are actually saying is ridiculous and stupid.

but my ROI on my top selection is actually positive for all of 2011....and also at each track individually.

Prove it. I kept track of all your picks and presented them on this board with an Excel spreadsheet. I'm sure if what you are saying is true in black and white and not in your fantasy,you can present it here.

You, in your desperate need to cut others down in a sad attempt to convince yourself that you aren't as hopeless as you clearly are, have no idea how difficult this is to achieve.

Once again,you need to stop the personal attacks and stick to the point. Yes,I know how difficult it is to achieve. And all I'm saying is you have not achieved it based on facts.


And, the interesting thing really is that we aren't about picking winners, per se, but actually discussing the races in order to stimulate interest and discussion.

I have nothing against marketing the NYRA product which is your job. I am just clarifying the notion that your selections are not profitable and the buyer should beware.

But, hey, keep fighting the bad fight. It's what makes you you.

Actually,you haven't the faintest idea of what makes me me or anybody who they are.

[cj]

Prove it. I kept track of all your picks and presented them on this board with an Excel spreadsheet. I'm sure if what you are saying is true in black and white and not in your fantasy,you can present it here.


You honestly think he would post it if it weren't true?

[the little guy]

You honestly think he would post it if it weren't true?


Actually, he lied, as he distorted my picks when he didn't update them to my late off-the-turf selections. Had he kept an accurate count my ROI was just under 1.97. I know, not as good as Light's ( he knows a guy that qualified for the National Handicapping Challenge don't ya know ), but better than the one he falsely posted.

But, like I said, that's what makes him him. He's fighting the bad fight. You almost have to admire him.

Or not.

[PhantomOnTour]

Race 1 is in 15mins...doesn't this #5 deserve another shot at 8-1?

[Robert Fischer]

Your ego is massive. Because I stated a fact about your score as a public handicapper,that somehow means I am unhappy with myself? What in the world do you have to do with my happiness? So if I gave you a good score,that would mean I'm happy with myself? You have just made my point about your eloquence.You may sound good to yourself or others but what you are actually saying is ridiculous and stupid.



Prove it. I kept track of all your picks and presented them on this board with an Excel spreadsheet. I'm sure if what you are saying is true in black and white and not in your fantasy,you can present it here.



Once again,you need to stop the personal attacks and stick to the point. Yes,I know how difficult it is to achieve. And all I'm saying is you have not achieved it based on facts.




I have nothing against marketing the NYRA product which is your job. I am just clarifying the notion that your selections are not profitable and the buyer should beware.



Actually,you haven't the faintest idea of what makes me me or anybody who they are.

Light, c'mon man. This is just awkward...

[Saratoga_Mike]

Light, c'mon man. This is just awkward...

...seems like an obsession

[thaskalos]

I ask you, what good is it if you are as knowledgeable as a walking encyclopedia and as smooth a talker as a snake oil salesman if you still end up in the red? Please don't tell me he helps your perspective of the race because a negative ROI cannot create a positive one. And he has a long and proven record as a negative ROI public handicapper any way you slice it.
Virtually every public handicapper I have ever been aware of in my 30 years of playing this game has had a negative long-term ROI...but this is a poor reflection of who they are as PLAYERS.

Unless you are privy to Serling's actual betting records...your argument against his handicapping prowess lacks "teeth".

When I commented about his vast knowledge - and the eloquence with which he presents it - I was not talking about the ROI of his picks...because I know how hopeless the public handicapper's task really is -- as far as maintaining a positive ROI is concerned.

I was merely inferring that he is the best at what he does that I have ever seen...and - as I have said before - I have been around awhile...

[tribecaagent]

Your ego is massive. Because I stated a fact about your score as a public handicapper,that somehow means I am unhappy with myself? What in the world do you have to do with my happiness? So if I gave you a good score,that would mean I'm happy with myself? You have just made my point about your eloquence.You may sound good to yourself or others but what you are actually saying is ridiculous and stupid.



Prove it. I kept track of all your picks and presented them on this board with an Excel spreadsheet. I'm sure if what you are saying is true in black and white and not in your fantasy,you can present it here.



Once again,you need to stop the personal attacks and stick to the point. Yes,I know how difficult it is to achieve. And all I'm saying is you have not achieved it based on facts.




I have nothing against marketing the NYRA product which is your job. I am just clarifying the notion that your selections are not profitable and the buyer should beware.



Actually,you haven't the faintest idea of what makes me me or anybody who they are.


This is a joke right?

[Spiderman]

Virtually every public handicapper I have ever been aware of in my 30 years of playing this game has had a negative long-term ROI...but this is a poor reflection of who they are as PLAYERS.

Unless you are privy to Serling's actual betting records...your argument against his handicapping prowess lacks "teeth".

When I commented about his vast knowledge - and the eloquence with which he presents it - I was not talking about the ROI of his picks...because I know how hopeless the public handicapper's task really is -- as far as maintaining a positive ROI is concerned.

I was merely inferring that he is the best at what he does that I have ever seen...and - as I have said before - I have been around awhile...


Harvey Pack is my choice for best ever race analyst.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Harvey Pack is my choice for best ever race analyst.

Very entertaining, but best race analyst...no

[classhandicapper]

It might make more sense to determine his ROI on his tweeted selections because I assume those are the ones (at least some of them) that he is betting on and has the strongest opinions about. I am sure he makes a lot of selections on races he would never even consider betting because he is forced to. It's his job.

I rarely express an opinion before a race because I'd rather not deal with this kind of nonsense, take pot shots when I occasionally miss something relevant, or feel bad if I steered someone to a loser or off a horse they would have bet that won. But when I do, they are usually my strongest opinions. I suspect that's the case with most people. So check TLG's twitter ID. (and mine for that matter (@classhndicapper). Just expect way fewer selections from me. :D

[Spiderman]

Very entertaining, but best race analyst...no
Name your favored on-track analyst. I attended Harvey's race analysis at AQ and BEL, in the mid-60's and did not watch much of his shows at SAR in recent years.

[mountainman]

we aren't about picking winners, per se, but actually discussing the races in order to stimulate interest and discussion.



Well said.

[mountainman]

Virtually every public handicapper I have ever been aware of in my 30 years of playing this game has had a negative long-term ROI....



Spot on, pal. The handicapper (public or otherwise) has not been born who can flat bet every race and beat the skim. Not in the longrun.

[PaceAdvantage]

Prove it. I kept track of all your picks and presented them on this board with an Excel spreadsheet. I'm sure if what you are saying is true in black and white and not in your fantasy,you can present it here.
Look how pissed off and angry you get with the knowedge that Andy is showing a profit...wow...everything he surmised about you must be spot on given this rather strange behavior towards a guy giving his picks out on the air.

I can guarantee he's showing a profit for 2011. Do you want to know why? Because if he was in the red, you'd be the first to put up your obsessive Excel spreadsheet trying to prove he's lying... :lol:

[Stillriledup]

Virtually every public handicapper I have ever been aware of in my 30 years of playing this game has had a negative long-term ROI...but this is a poor reflection of who they are as PLAYERS.

Unless you are privy to Serling's actual betting records...your argument against his handicapping prowess lacks "teeth".

When I commented about his vast knowledge - and the eloquence with which he presents it - I was not talking about the ROI of his picks...because I know how hopeless the public handicapper's task really is -- as far as maintaining a positive ROI is concerned.

I was merely inferring that he is the best at what he does that I have ever seen...and - as I have said before - I have been around awhile...

But why would Light (or anyone else) care if the public player has a positive ROI behind the scenes with his own bankroll and yet, his public ROI is in the red?

[ArlJim78]

I think this is what is known as an unhealthy obsession. the funny thing is the moment I saw this thread first go up, I knew it would end with several big diatribes from Light.

[Stillriledup]

I really do not understand some of the comments I see posted here
directed at A. Serling. I follow NYRA everyday and still think he is very talented.

From what I see he understands a basic of this game that a lot who post here do not:
This game is not about "picking winners"--it is about backing horses who's
odds of winning are higher than their chances of winning.

He has strong opinions--yes. Who does not?? That is what makes the game go around.

A lot of the comments posted have nothing to do with him being talented or not being talented at the craft of race selection and analysis.

Are you saying that Cleveland should love Lebron James because he's talented at basketball?

[PaceAdvantage]

I think this is what is known as an unhealthy obsession.It's odd, isn't it?

That tends to happen to successful people...others are so jealous, they must find a way to tear them down...and when they can't (like now), it brings the ol' blood pressure to the popping point... :lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

A lot of the comments posted have nothing to do with him being talented or not being talented at the craft of race selection and analysis.

Are you saying that Cleveland should love Lebron James because he's talented at basketball?That's one piss poor analogy. I would have expected nothing less from you.

[cj]

Uh oh, must be work release time at the asylum.

[Canarsie]

Wow to think all I wanted to do was provide a link to what I perceived as a good read and interview.

The Full Moon was Aug 13, 2:57 P.M that can't be the reason.

[Stillriledup]

It's odd, isn't it?

That tends to happen to successful people...others are so jealous, they must find a way to tear them down...and when they can't (like now), it brings the ol' blood pressure to the popping point... :lol:

So what you are saying is that every successful public person, regardless of field, gets torn down equally because of jealousy?

A Rod and Jeter are both extremely successful baseball players, yet, one of them gets torn down constantly and the other does not. You would imagine that many people are jealous of both players, yet Jeter doesnt get torn down quite as much as Alex.

[PaceAdvantage]

So what you are saying is that every successful public person, regardless of field, gets torn down equally because of jealousy?

A Rod and Jeter are both extremely successful baseball players, yet, one of them gets torn down constantly and the other does not. You would imagine that many people are jealous of both players, yet Jeter doesnt get torn down quite as much as Alex.Jeter gets torn down plenty. Many call him the most overrated player in the game.

Can you give me any more horrible analogies?

Why don't you just come out and say what you want to say? Why hide behind this schlock?

[Stillriledup]

That's one piss poor analogy. I would have expected nothing less from you.

Why is it a bad analogy, broad brush was saying ( i think ) that Serling should be loved because he's good at race selection. I was trying to point out that being successful at your craft doesnt mean people should love you.

Unless i misunderstood what BB was saying? Maybe you could help me out with that.

[Stillriledup]

Jeter gets torn down plenty. Many call him the most overrated player in the game.

Can you give me any more horrible analogies?

Why don't you just come out and say what you want to say? Why hide behind this schlock?

IF you went onto the streets of NY and asked 100 people who gets torn down more Jeter or ALex, do you think the responses would be 50 50?

[PaceAdvantage]

Why is it a bad analogy, broad brush was saying ( i think ) that Serling should be loved because he's good at race selection. I was trying to point out that being successful at your craft doesnt mean people should love you.

Unless i misunderstood what BB was saying? Maybe you could help me out with that.Either say what you mean, or realize that Light was actually talking about Andy's success or lack thereof.

You however, are gravitating to an entirely different galaxy, with your thinly veiled BS.

[Stillriledup]

Either say what you mean, or realize that Light was actually talking about Andy's success or lack thereof.

You however, are gravitating to an entirely different galaxy, with your thinly veiled BS.

I was commenting on what Broad Brush said, not what Light said.

[PaceAdvantage]

The only thing good about when threads degrade like this, is that it makes my job much easier in the future. Threads like these tend to reveal certain people for what they truly are. They just can't help themselves...and that's why I sometimes let threads like these linger more than people think I should...

[magwell]

A lot of the comments posted have nothing to do with him being talented or not being talented at the craft of race selection and analysis.

Are you saying that Cleveland should love Lebron James because he's talented at basketball? This post just proves that you cant engage with some people because they will confuse you with with their expertise of of nonsense......:rolleyes:

[PaceAdvantage]

I was commenting on what Broad Brush said, not what Light said.That makes no difference to what you are trying to say through bad analogies. Just get it over already...man up!

[Stillriledup]

That makes no difference to what you are trying to say through bad analogies. Just get it over already...man up!

I disagree that they were bad analogies, i think they were quite good.

[PaceAdvantage]

I disagree that they were bad analogies, i think they were quite good.Why do you need analogies? Just say what's on your mind. This is starting to get ridiculous, even for me.

The original tangent we went off on was whether or not Andy has a positive ROI this year. How this went from that to Lebron James is silly.

You don't like Andy. I get it. You're too frightened for some reason to say so, so you resort to silly comparisons to Lebron James.

[ArlJim78]

It's odd, isn't it?

That tends to happen to successful people...others are so jealous, they must find a way to tear them down...and when they can't (like now), it brings the ol' blood pressure to the popping point... :lol:

I still can't get over the fact that there are people out there who claim to be serious tournament players and they spend their time jotting down the picks of a TV host and then keep track of them in a spreadsheet for ROI analysis.

[PaceAdvantage]

I still can't get over the fact that there are people out there who claim to be serious tournament players and they spend their time jotting down the picks of a TV host and then keep track of them in a spreadsheet for ROI analysis.You haven't been around very long then. I would expect nothing less from certain poster's around here.

[Stillriledup]

Why do you need analogies? Just say what's on your mind. This is starting to get ridiculous, even for me.

The original tangent we went off on was whether or not Andy has a positive ROI this year. How this went from that to Lebron James is silly.

You don't like Andy. I get it. You're too frightened for some reason to say so, so you resort to silly comparisons to Lebron James.

I was just trying to suggest that being successful at your craft doesnt mean people should like you and its not a jealousy thing, because if it was, all successful celebrities would be 'hated on' equally, and we know that's not the case.

I don't like or dislike Andy. I asked him a question earlier in this thread about pick 6s and he didnt answer me, so, i'm not sure what that means.

At any rate, there are a few people here i like, but most of the people here i don't have a feeling one way or another. Andy is one of those people.

[duncan04]

Why do you need analogies? Just say what's on your mind. This is starting to get ridiculous, even for me.

The original tangent we went off on was whether or not Andy has a positive ROI this year. How this went from that to Lebron James is silly.

You don't like Andy. I get it. You're too frightened for some reason to say so, so you resort to silly comparisons to Lebron James.


Thats why he went with the NY angle with ARod and Jeter. He thought that fit better! :rolleyes:

[Stillriledup]

Thats why he went with the NY angle with ARod and Jeter. He thought that fit better! :rolleyes:

I know PA is a yankees fan and he would know the difference between Alex and Jeet as far as who's liked more. ;)

[PaceAdvantage]

The man who compares tlg to A-rod and Lebron James neither likes or dislikes tlg...OK then.... :lol:

[Saratoga_Mike]

Name your favored on-track analyst. I attended Harvey's race analysis at AQ and BEL, in the mid-60's and did not watch much of his shows at SAR in recent years.

I liked Harvey (watched his nightly show in the late 80s), so I don't want to go down this path. So I shouldn't have commented on your post.

[duncan04]

For the record TLG did have the $25.60 winner in race 9 today. He tweeted it before the race and was on his picks at nyra.com. :ThmbUp:

[the little guy]

For the record TLG did have the $25.60 winner in race 9 today. He tweeted it before the race and was on his picks at nyra.com. :ThmbUp:


I suck.

[Relwob Owner]

The only thing good about when threads degrade like this, is that it makes my job much easier in the future. Threads like these tend to reveal certain people for what they truly are. They just can't help themselves...and that's why I sometimes let threads like these linger more than people think I should...



Very true IMO. If there is anything that this thread proves, it is that some people put illogical thoughts out there and make absurd analogies just to get attention or a response.

Back to the topic at hand, any Q and A with a guy like Serling is valuable for it's content. The timing of it is especially good because it is during Saratoga's meet.

[Relwob Owner]

Your ego is massive. Because I stated a fact about your score as a public handicapper,that somehow means I am unhappy with myself? What in the world do you have to do with my happiness? So if I gave you a good score,that would mean I'm happy with myself? You have just made my point about your eloquence.You may sound good to yourself or others but what you are actually saying is ridiculous and stupid.



Prove it. I kept track of all your picks and presented them on this board with an Excel spreadsheet. I'm sure if what you are saying is true in black and white and not in your fantasy,you can present it here.



Once again,you need to stop the personal attacks and stick to the point. Yes,I know how difficult it is to achieve. And all I'm saying is you have not achieved it based on facts.




I have nothing against marketing the NYRA product which is your job. I am just clarifying the notion that your selections are not profitable and the buyer should beware.



Actually,you haven't the faintest idea of what makes me me or anybody who they are.



Huh? You are telling him to stop with the personal attacks? Seems like you were the one who interjected your personal attack on him into this thread, no?

[jorcus]

snip,

I have nothing against marketing the NYRA product which is your job. I am just clarifying the notion that your selections are not profitable and the buyer should beware.

snip



The picks are free. There is nothing to buy. Like it is stated in the article it's a discussion of that days card. It often helps me.

[Stillriledup]

The man who compares tlg to A-rod and Lebron James neither likes or dislikes tlg...OK then.... :lol:

Depends on how you look at it. A rod and Lebron are amazingly great players, all time greats....so, if i did actually compare andrew to them, that's a compliment, no?

;)

[Mineshaft]

Why do you need analogies? Just say what's on your mind. This is starting to get ridiculous, even for me.

The original tangent we went off on was whether or not Andy has a positive ROI this year. How this went from that to Lebron James is silly.

You don't like Andy. I get it. You're too frightened for some reason to say so, so you resort to silly comparisons to Lebron James.





I dont like him neither just wanted to put that in there.

[Stillriledup]

I dont like him neither just wanted to put that in there.

Duly noted. :D

[The Hawk]

I don't play NYRA, so I have no idea if Andy Serling does well with his picks or doesn't. I'm assuming he does, because NYRA seems to be pleased with him. But as he said, his job is stimulate interest, and provide information. That includes picks, but anyone who thinks ANY handicapper has a strong, or even good, opinion about every single race is misinformed, to say the least.

Also (and I've said this before): Andy is very generous with his time here, and should be used as a resource when it comes to NYRA, not antagonized. This thread was started because he was profiled in DRF. How many other guys who are high profile post here? Ask yourself, "Why don't they?" Would you, after reading stuff like this? I wouldn't blame him for leaving, never to return, with all the nonsense he puts up with. For this thread to denigrate into "His ROI sucks", or whatever, is disgraceful.

Keep up the good work Andy.

[Cardus]

I understand you're just expressing your unhappiness with yourself...but my ROI on my top selection is actually positive for all of 2011....and also at each track individually. You, in your desperate need to cut others down in a sad attempt to convince yourself that you aren't as hopeless as you clearly are, have no idea how difficult this is to achieve. And, the interesting thing really is that we aren't about picking winners, per se, but actually discussing the races in order to stimulate interest and discussion.

But, hey, keep fighting the bad fight. It's what makes you you.

Outstanding!

[Cardus]

Jeter gets torn down plenty. Many call him the most overrated player in the game.

Can you give me any more horrible analogies?

Why don't you just come out and say what you want to say? Why hide behind this schlock?

This was rhetroical, right?

[Stillriledup]

I don't play NYRA, so I have no idea if Andy Serling does well with his picks or doesn't. I'm assuming he does, because NYRA seems to be pleased with him. But as he said, his job is stimulate interest, and provide information. That includes picks, but anyone who thinks ANY handicapper has a strong, or even good, opinion about every single race is misinformed, to say the least.

Also (and I've said this before): Andy is very generous with his time here, and should be used as a resource when it comes to NYRA, not antagonized. This thread was started because he was profiled in DRF. How many other guys who are high profile post here? Ask yourself, "Why don't they?" Would you, after reading stuff like this? I wouldn't blame him for leaving, never to return, with all the nonsense he puts up with. For this thread to denigrate into "His ROI sucks", or whatever, is disgraceful.

Keep up the good work Andy.


Im generous with my time also, does that mean i shouldnt be antagonized?

:p

[The Hawk]

Im generous with my time also, does that mean i shouldnt be antagonized?

:p

No one is looking for you.

[Relwob Owner]

I was just trying to suggest that being successful at your craft doesnt mean people should like you and its not a jealousy thing, because if it was, all successful celebrities would be 'hated on' equally, and we know that's not the case.

I don't like or dislike Andy. I asked him a question earlier in this thread about pick 6s and he didnt answer me, so, i'm not sure what that means.

At any rate, there are a few people here i like, but most of the people here i don't have a feeling one way or another. Andy is one of those people.


I think I can make a pretty good guess as to what it means

[FantasticDan]

Also (and I've said this before): Andy is very generous with his time here, and should be used as a resource when it comes to NYRA, not antagonized. This thread was started because he was profiled in DRF. How many other guys who are high profile post here? Ask yourself, "Why don't they?" Would you, after reading stuff like this? I wouldn't blame him for leaving, never to return, with all the nonsense he puts up with.Andy Beyer once (lovingly) referred to TLG as a "know-it-all kid who progressed to a know-it-all adult". In other words, he's an individual of strong opinion, and what better place to exercise that opinion and illuminate/chastise the masses than a feisty forum like PA?

Methinks he'll stick around; it's in his nature. ;)

[cj]

The only thing good about when threads degrade like this, is that it makes my job much easier in the future. Threads like these tend to reveal certain people for what they truly are. They just can't help themselves...and that's why I sometimes let threads like these linger more than people think I should...

I dont like him neither just wanted to put that in there.

Nuff said.

[cj]

Im generous with my time also, does that mean i shouldnt be antagonized?

:p

No, we want you to spend less of it here.

[TheGhostOfOscarB]

So is Andy the Jim Cramer of horse racing?

[Stillriledup]

I think I can make a pretty good guess as to what it means

If you're thinking what i'm thinking than yeah, our guesses are probably similar.

[thaskalos]

I was just trying to suggest that being successful at your craft doesnt mean people should like you and its not a jealousy thing, because if it was, all successful celebrities would be 'hated on' equally, and we know that's not the case.

I don't like or dislike Andy. I asked him a question earlier in this thread about pick 6s and he didnt answer me, so, i'm not sure what that means.

At any rate, there are a few people here i like, but most of the people here i don't have a feeling one way or another. Andy is one of those people.
It's not a question of whether or not we "like" Andy Serling, SRU...

It's about us being serious players who recognize how difficult this game is to beat...and, therefore, appreciate and respect the effort it takes for a player to excel at it.

And, when an expert horseplayer shares his thoughts and opinions with the racing public...he deserves our respect all the more.

[PaceAdvantage]

I don't play NYRA, so I have no idea if Andy Serling does well with his picks or doesn't. I'm assuming he does, because NYRA seems to be pleased with him. But as he said, his job is stimulate interest, and provide information. That includes picks, but anyone who thinks ANY handicapper has a strong, or even good, opinion about every single race is misinformed, to say the least.

Also (and I've said this before): Andy is very generous with his time here, and should be used as a resource when it comes to NYRA, not antagonized. This thread was started because he was profiled in DRF. How many other guys who are high profile post here? Ask yourself, "Why don't they?" Would you, after reading stuff like this? I wouldn't blame him for leaving, never to return, with all the nonsense he puts up with. For this thread to denigrate into "His ROI sucks", or whatever, is disgraceful.

Keep up the good work Andy.I'll give this a "sharp post" and an "Amen Bruddah"

The thing some don't like about Andy is that he is opinionated, isn't afraid to say it, and never sugar coats it. They also don't like that he's one of the best if not the best public handicapper on the air these days. It's obvious he works his ass off and is one of the more astute trip handicappers in the game.

And, above all else, he's a value player, which means he should be a hero to any serious player here.

Anything else is just sour grapes, downright jealousy, or worse.

(PS. Now that I've kissed his ass royally, I hope he returns the favor somewhat by gracing us with his presence at the PA tables this weekend... :lol: )

[phattty]

i like the fact that he not only offers his opinions for all to see, but he apparently supports those opinions at the windows

[the little guy]

(PS. Now that I've kissed his ass royally, I hope he returns the favor somewhat by gracing us with his presence at the PA tables this weekend... :lol: )


I will try...but I'm pretty sick. Shake my hand at your own risk.

[Grits]

I will try...but I'm pretty sick. Shake my hand at your own risk.

What's in the air, or is it the night air?

I've walked by you once in the two weeks I've been here, didn't shake your hand, just said "Hi Andy". I've been sick all this week with a throat infection, not strep, just a bad sore throat--I called my physician at home yesterday morning at 9 am, when I could stand no more. She called in 500 mg Keflex to a nearby Rite Aid. BLESS HER! At the track, trying to wager, trying to talk, feeling worse by the day.

I'll feel better with the Keflex---hope you do. It'll kill anything. (Get yourself some meds.)

Travers Week will be busy, but fun. I'm looking forward to it.

[railjunkie]

No question that Andy's enthusiasm and knowledge, along with his polished on air presence, have reinvigorated NYRA telecasts. However, just once I'd like to hear him go off like this and tell all his enemies what he really thinks.

p://video.aol.com/video-detail/newt-onian-irrelevance/2574308417

[PICSIX]

i agree,,, it is funny but i rarely play the same horses as Andy ,,, but i always give them a second look and respect his opinion and his quest for value.. Thanks andy for steering me off Stat on monday in the sar special .... On paper he looked tough ,,,, then you gave your reasoning and i jumped all over Union Rags... I love handicapping a card and then hearing your opinions and seeing if i missed any kind of bad trip or track bias i might have missed,,, Keep up the good work little guy


I rarely play his selections as well...I believe most handicappers (deep down) want to find their own selection, prove they are better, smarter or know more than the "Pros". I will have to admit, however, that on many occasions it's Andy's selection running past mine. :bang:

[Spiderman]

I rarely play his selections as well...I believe most handicappers (deep down) want to find their own selection, prove they are better, smarter or know more than the "Pros". I will have to admit, however, that on many occasions it's Andy's selection running past mine. :bang:

Funny story, some may call it red boarding, but the P6 win is pertinent to Andy's selections. Wood Memorial Day, April 3, 2010, have my P6 ticket prepared and in first leg, an off-the-turfer, one of my selections is scratched. Also scratching my head about putting in another # in competitive field. Watching Andy spiel and saying that he would use Spa City Princess who was maiden winner last out. I seldom play last out maiden winners, but SCP was still on contenders list and I was confident about other legs and put her in to complete ticket at $48 budget. My first selection, Judicial Leader opens a clear lead in mid-stretch and SCP runs her down for win. Good job, Andy.

Long story short, ticket is live with three #s into last leg. Listening to Andy, he "hates" and said it repeatedly, "I hate Tom Kitten." Well, TK was one of the three on my ticket and the willpay was longest at $7,900. Jockey, Fernando Jara, did everythiing to lose race, but powered past first time turfer with Dominguez for win. I recall, Andy saying,"I hate _________" several times and a few have one.