Texas A&M to SEC: End of Big 12 ?

[maddog42]

ESPN"s Doug Gottlieb is reporting that A&M will go to SEC. Another source says SEC is pursuing Florida State, Clemson and Missouri. Source from Missouri says
they will not go to SEC. Also local (OKLA) papers are reporting rumors and making odds that OU will go to Pac 10.

[PhantomOnTour]

The big dog's gotta eat.

I think it's actually a bad thing for the Big12 to break up...what about basketball where Kansas, K State, Texas, and A&M are all very good programs?
There are enough quality teams in both major sports to keep this conference together...is this all the fault of those damn 'Horns and their network??

[Robert Goren]

I just glad Nebraska got out while the gettin' was good. I hope Missouri ends up in the SEC. They are the ones who have the most to lose if the Big 12 falls apart. OU and OSU will end up some place good maybe the PAC 12. I got to believe it would be a package deal. Tex is an example of what happens when you too greedy.

[maddog42]

The big dog's gotta eat.

I think it's actually a bad thing for the Big12 to break up...what about basketball where Kansas, K State, Texas, and A&M are all very good programs?
There are enough quality teams in both major sports to keep this conference together...is this all the fault of those damn 'Horns and their network??

According to local sports radio: Screaming matches between Deloss Dodds and Osborne and assistants at AD and Big 12 gatherings precipitated this breakup in 2008. Nebraska officials complained back then that Texas had all the pull because of the bigger TV market. The Longhorn Network definitely contributed. Weak Big 12 leadership also contributed. The big 12 is the only conference that has allowed a branded school TV network. SEC will not permit it, nor PAC 10. Notre Dame has one, but it is independent. Bob Stoops complained when told that Longhorn Network was going to broadcast recruits games " I'm not even allowed to put pictures of visiting recruits on the Jumbotron." Texas has a stranglehold on the big 12 politics. The Big 12 did put a 1 year moratorium on the Broadcast of high school games on the Longhorn Network. Dodds said he could see the Big 12 existing with 9 teams, but not with 8.
Many rumors flying around. Big 12 officials said they would consider bringing in Notre Dame, Brigham Young and Air Force. Fat Chance for Notre
Dame. They would not join a weakened big 12. BY and Air Force would love to. Dodds said joining the PAC 10 was one of several options. The Longhorn Network is a stumbling block to them joining the PAC 10.
OUbrass are apparently reluctant to join the SEC. They were invited 2 years
ago. The Pac 10 is another story with many high level OU people wanting to join 2 years ago.

[ElKabong]

maddog,

Okla radio is still an earfull of garbage, now? I guess things never change. The populace isn't too bright so WTF....say what you want, the rednecks will believe it. :)

Google the interview the NU Chancellor gave after the move was made to the b10. He stated that NU got most of what they needed and ever wanted in the b12, he saw eye to eye with Cunningham and TEXAS. He had no problems with us (but the media ran with the angle that didn't exist on the upper levels)

As for Osborne, he was pissed in 1994-5 when we (TEXAS and aTm) DEMANDED that Partial Qualifiers be done away with, or severely curtailed. Osborne didn't like the idea of losing out on the Lawrence Phillips and Peter brothers of the world. He didn't like losing to us either - but that's another story....

Osborne was a bit player with no final vote in the game. Look it up. He had Perlman's ear but absolutely no swing.

But the person who had the power to pull the trigger (Chancellor) did so greatly for the chance to enter into the prestigious CIC. That's what I miss about UT not bolting for the b10 (which will likely happen in the next 4-5 yrs imo). The CIC is a powerful and prestigious group / tool. Screw football and hoops. The CIC can advance already excellent institutions.

[ElKabong]

re: the Longhorn network....the most over rated thing of all time.

Only small minded people and institutions would get their panties in a wad over this thing. Since when does a network that will show rowing, tennis and golf events constitute an advantage?

I see it as a negative. We wanted to run HS football games on the LHN (ncaa says "no" for now)....Bad idea.....'Get a commitment from a blue chip so he can have 3-4 of his HS games on nat'l tv, ham it up for the cameras, then watch this attention hungry kid switch his commitment in late January'.....It opens the door for the Horns to get "Perriloux'd" 4 or 5 times a year & actually move our recruiting backwards.

But small minded folks and envious folks bitch on about "unfair advantages". It's what they do. They think our programming of 'Kickin it with Colt" or "Fozzin it with Fozzy" shows constitutes an advantage, lol. Please. It's nonsense.....a better way to promote your University is via something like the BIG10 network, and UT will soon realize it. They're just playing their cards for now to get the best deal.

as for the b12, it's toast. The big 8 had no future, the SWC had less of one. The b12 was a nice placeholder, time changes things & it has no leverage in today's world of collegiate athletics. Where yOU guys go w/b intersting b/c a lot of oSu grads are trying to tie them and yOU together politically (such as Baylor did to the b12 in 1994). That'll be fun to watch. If anm, Free Shoes goes to the SEC, then the next attractive Univ is VA Tech given their population base for tv. That makes 15 teams....Who's the other ONE? My guess is UNC or if OU can bolt alone, the sooners

Much fun to come the next 3-4 yrs!

[PhantomOnTour]

We are moving towards four mega conferences and a national playoff


SEC
Pac10
Big10
ACC

[Robert Goren]

maddog,

Okla radio is still an earfull of garbage, now? I guess things never change. The populace isn't too bright so WTF....say what you want, the rednecks will believe it. :)

Google the interview the NU Chancellor gave after the move was made to the b10. He stated that NU got most of what they needed and ever wanted in the b12, he saw eye to eye with Cunningham and TEXAS. He had no problems with us (but the media ran with the angle that didn't exist on the upper levels)

As for Osborne, he was pissed in 1994-5 when we (TEXAS and aTm) DEMANDED that Partial Qualifiers be done away with, or severely curtailed. Osborne didn't like the idea of losing out on the Lawrence Phillips and Peter brothers of the world. He didn't like losing to us either - but that's another story....

Osborne was a bit player with no final vote in the game. Look it up. He had Perlman's ear but absolutely no swing.

But the person who had the power to pull the trigger (Chancellor) did so greatly for the chance to enter into the prestigious CIC. That's what I miss about UT not bolting for the b10 (which will likely happen in the next 4-5 yrs imo). The CIC is a powerful and prestigious group / tool. Screw football and hoops. The CIC can advance already excellent institutions. In fact it is Perlman who is the bit player here. Perlman was almost been fired at least twice that the public knows about. Osborne is the power in the athletic program. He was brought in to fix a mess. He calls the shots and has the full backing of the board of regents, which Perlman does not. If it came down to choice between Perlman and Osborne, Osborne wins every time. The Board of Regents is an elected body and none of them want to be known as the person who forced Osborne out. Rightly or wrongly, UNL is about football, not academics.
Nebraska has never been happy about being in the Big 12. It has been looking for way out since the merger of the Big 8 and the best four teams of the old Southwest conference. When the chance finally came, they jumped.

[maddog42]

maddog,

Okla radio is still an earfull of garbage, now? I guess things never change. The populace isn't too bright so WTF....say what you want, the rednecks will believe it. :)

Google the interview the NU Chancellor gave after the move was made to the b10. He stated that NU got most of what they needed and ever wanted in the b12, he saw eye to eye with Cunningham and TEXAS. He had no problems with us (but the media ran with the angle that didn't exist on the upper levels)

As for Osborne, he was pissed in 1994-5 when we (TEXAS and aTm) DEMANDED that Partial Qualifiers be done away with, or severely curtailed. Osborne didn't like the idea of losing out on the Lawrence Phillips and Peter brothers of the world. He didn't like losing to us either - but that's another story....

Osborne was a bit player with no final vote in the game. Look it up. He had Perlman's ear but absolutely no swing.

But the person who had the power to pull the trigger (Chancellor) did so greatly for the chance to enter into the prestigious CIC. That's what I miss about UT not bolting for the b10 (which will likely happen in the next 4-5 yrs imo). The CIC is a powerful and prestigious group / tool. Screw football and hoops. The CIC can advance already excellent institutions.

Almost everything you said verified OK Talk radio. That came from a very good source. Sports Animal and Al Eschbach. As far as okie rednecks being of low intelligence, the only State that rivals us is Texas. I have seen more dumb politicians come out of OK and Texas (presidents too) than anywhere.
OU is academically lower than Texas, but if NEBRASKA got in you guys can.
If Texas goes .500 or lower this year, some of the luster may be off the shiny Longhorn brand. As for okie talk radio, my wife is from Kozad Nebraska, and they were reporting similar stuff up there. It would seem to me Osborne did get what he wanted. He has tremendous pull on campus and off (notice his political career) If you believe everything the Chancellor said you are crazy.

[maddog42]

We are moving towards four mega conferences and a national playoff


SEC
Pac10
Big10
ACC

I would agree about the Mega Conferences, but I wouldn't put in ACC, They might lose some members too. As a basketball conference they are the best, but most of these alignments are happening for Football reasons. Maybe basketball will hold them together.

[maddog42]

In fact it is Perlman who is the bit player here. Perlman was almost been fired at least twice that the public knows about. Osborne is the power in the athletic program. He was brought in to fix a mess. He calls the shots and has the full backing of the board of regents, which Perlman does not. If it came down to choice between Perlman and Osborne, Osborne wins every time. The Board of Regents is an elected body and none of them want to be known as the person who forced Osborne out. Rightly or wrongly, UNL is about football, not academics.
Nebraska has never been happy about being in the Big 12. It has been looking for way out since the merger of the Big 8 and the best four teams of the old Southwest conference. When the chance finally came, they jumped.

Elkabong is talking about something that he doesn't know much about. Now to be fair to the guy, I don't know much about Texas Football politics and he does.The idea that it was Perlman that made the decision to go to the Big 10 is ludicrous. He pretty much rubber stamped the decision that Osborne and the Regents made.

[canleakid]

Bottom line Texas is going Norte Dame ($$$$$$) all bout the money ;)

Texas A&M going to the SEC "GIG 'EM" :ThmbUp:

[ElKabong]

Bottom line Texas is going Norte Dame ($$$$$$) all bout the money ;)

Texas A&M going to the SEC "GIG 'EM" :ThmbUp:

The dog has finally caught the car! Good luck with that, dog :)

[ElKabong]

Elkabong is talking about something that he doesn't know much about. Now to be fair to the guy, I don't know much about Texas Football politics and he does.The idea that it was Perlman that made the decision to go to the Big 10 is ludicrous. He pretty much rubber stamped the decision that Osborne and the Regents made.

BOR, yes. Osborne? No. And yes this is something I do know about

Did you find and read the article?

[ElKabong]

dog42,

I'm assuming you didn't find or read the article. Good read, dig in. Much of Perlman's voting was in direct opposition to Osborne's rhetoric. Who's in charge? The guy casting the votes in the name of the Univ of Nebraska....That's who

Was it Perlman's votes? or, was he told to vote the way he did by the BOR? I don't know...What I do know is, Osborne's opinions didn't mean diddly squat. NU voted opposite his views on many issues.

http://www.omaha.com/article/20100830/BIGRED/708309872

But Perlman didn't really share those geographic concerns. In fact, he actually would end up voting to play the title game in Dallas for the next several years. “I wasn't prepared to sit in Kansas City in the cold,'' Perlman said.

And on the issues of greatest import, “Nebraska was getting largely what it wanted,'' Perlman said.

While some schools complained about the league's unequal distribution of revenue from network TV contracts, Nebraska wasn't among them. It joined Texas as a strong proponent of giving big-time football schools — those most appealing to the networks — a bigger slice of the pie.

Plus, Perlman said, the Big 12 had just recently completed important conversations about whether to form its own TV network for secondary sports programming, akin to the Big Ten's.

While many have blamed Texas and its plans to start its own Longhorn TV network as the reason a Big 12 network never got off the ground, Nebraska wasn't on board with a conference network, either. Nebraska's support was conditional on the high-profile schools taking a larger cut of that revenue, too — a condition some schools strongly opposed.

[maddog42]

These are quotes from the article:
Longhorn-Husker politics aside, Perlman describes University of Texas President William Powers as a friend.....
As proceedings got under way at the InterContinental Hotel in Kansas City, media scrutiny was intense, but what happened inside has largely remained behind closed doors......

Osborne and Perlman both say the meetings were heated, but not inappropriately contentious. It was understood everyone was looking out for his own school, and lots was at stake.......

I notice there were very few real direct quotes from Osborne in the entire article. And nothing and I mean nothing to contradict anything I said.
".... meetings were heated, but not inappropriately contentious." Translation:
No punches were thrown. This article was carefully written and in the most part is accurate.
The SEC/AnM thing going on right now sheds some light on this matter. The Daily Oklahoman has stated that lawyers have advised the SEC to back off, to stave off a lawsuit. If the Sec was shown to have enticed A&m to break its contract, they could be liable. Thats why they did not extend an outright invite to A&M.
After Big 10 lawyers talked to Nebraska they essentially said IXNAY
on Invitation. Subsequent threats of lawsuit from big 12 threatening big 10
never materialized.
Texas politicians seem split about A&M leaving. I will finish this little big 12 banter at a later date.

[Robert Goren]

BOR, yes. Osborne? No. And yes this is something I do know about

Did you find and read the article? If the article says that Perlman had anything to decision then the article is wrong. He did iron out the fineprint though. Osborne made the decision and the regents rubber stamped it. Everybody in Nebraska knows that. I can however understand how somebody that is not from Nebraska could get confused by some of the stuff in the press and online.
It cost Nebraska and Colorado a pretty penny to leave the Big 12, but I think anyone in charge at those two schools would say it was money well spent. I was really surprised that OU didn't leave at same time. I still think their days in the Big 12 conference are numbered.

[ElKabong]

If the article says that Perlman had anything to decision then the article is wrong. He did iron out the fineprint though. Osborne made the decision and the regents rubber stamped it. Everybody in Nebraska knows that. I can however understand how somebody that is not from Nebraska could get confused by some of the stuff in the press and online.
It cost Nebraska and Colorado a pretty penny to leave the Big 12, but I think anyone in charge at those two schools would say it was money well spent. I was really surprised that OU didn't leave at same time. I still think their days in the Big 12 conference are numbered.

Bobby, Bobby, please keep up. The point is Osborne had little to no influence on VOTING inside the b12 points of contention like media heads say. He was in the back seat. Just look at their voting record (do some research on Hornfans.com for those records in posts....NU voted with TEXAS and anm, Ou almost on every major issue)

As for leaving, yeah, it's a no brainer for NU. Osborne, Perlman and likely every BOR member wanted to jump. They had to, to survive. The b12 as is will last 4 yrs, max. TEXAS, Ou, anm all know it. The moving vans haven't even begun to roll yet.....plenty of time to move on.

But as far as "Osborne calls the shots", that wasn't the case. NU's voting record on athletic matters in the b12 were the usually complete opposite of his wishes.

[ElKabong]

The SEC/AnM thing going on right now sheds some light on this matter. The Daily Oklahoman has stated that lawyers have advised the SEC to back off, to stave off a lawsuit. If the Sec was shown to have enticed A&m to break its contract, they could be liable. Thats why they did not extend an outright invite to A&M.
After Big 10 lawyers talked to Nebraska they essentially said IXNAY
on Invitation. Subsequent threats of lawsuit from big 12 threatening big 10
never materialized.
Texas politicians seem split about A&M leaving. I will finish this little big 12 banter at a later date.

Quick, dog42.....who do you think is behind the possible lawsuit vs anm? Hint, it's the network(s) that have 300 mill lined up for the LHN to be a longterm success (good luck with that). Take away aggy, and their conference tv games just got even more boring. Think, dog, think :) It's the same network that's been running / shaping CFB for the past 10 yrs.

aggy can go. Adios amigo and good luck.... Networks that have millions (very recently) invested in the b12 think otherwise. They see millions lost w/ aggy leaving.... TEXAS sees a bigger slice of the pie for themselves, and so does Ou. Bank it.

As to your other point, the "lawsuits" never materialized b/c an agreement was made last Fall. NU paid 9 mill, CU paid 7 mill (link below). As was explained on ESPN later on, the b12 witheld tv and bowl money from CU, NU, so no lawsuit was needed.

http://www.statesman.com/sports/collegefootball/nebraska-colorado-reach-exit-deals-with-big-12-930282.html?cxtype=ynews_rss

[Robert Goren]

Bobby, Bobby, please keep up. The point is Osborne had little to no influence on VOTING inside the b12 points of contention like media heads say. He was in the back seat. Just look at their voting record (do some research on Hornfans.com for those records in posts....NU voted with TEXAS and anm, Ou almost on every major issue)

As for leaving, yeah, it's a no brainer for NU. Osborne, Perlman and likely every BOR member wanted to jump. They had to, to survive. The b12 as is will last 4 yrs, max. TEXAS, Ou, anm all know it. The moving vans haven't even begun to roll yet.....plenty of time to move on.

But as far as "Osborne calls the shots", that wasn't the case. NU's voting record on athletic matters in the b12 were the usually complete opposite of his wishes.You are going believe what you want no matter what the facts are. I don't think that a Texas fan site is a good place for information on UNL. But hey, what do I know, after all I am from Nebraska and had deal the UNL athletic dept before I retired . Maybe if I moved to Texas, I might a clue about what goes on with UNL athletics.

[maddog42]

Elk, you are way off-base on who calls the shots athletically at NU. Way off base.

One of the rumors that came out of the OU Athletic department:
If A&M leaves the Big 12, Dodds will never schedule another game with them in any sport. This was the rumor I heard 1 year ago, but considering the source, it MIGHT be better than a news report.
One of things in the article you were so anxious for us to read that I didn't believe:
Osborne goes back to Lincoln and polls his coaches. He said they ALL wanted to go to the Big 10. I am assuming he meant every sport. If he means the big 3 then I might believe it. Every sport ? Bullshit.

[ElKabong]

You are going believe what you want no matter what the facts are. I don't think that a Texas fan site is a good place for information on UNL. But hey, what do I know, after all I am from Nebraska and had deal the UNL athletic dept before I retired . Maybe if I moved to Texas, I might a clue about what goes on with UNL athletics.

all kidding aside, Robert, do you think things thru? The website posted the votes of all AD's of programs for years. It's not like bonehead posters post shit. The recoreds were there for all to see.

Osborne would be quoted one thing, yet NU was voting the exact opposite. Sorry bud, but you're spouting opinion while I'm posting the fact

[ElKabong]

Elk, you are way off-base on who calls the shots athletically at NU. Way off base.

One of the rumors that came out of the OU Athletic department:
If A&M leaves the Big 12, Dodds will never schedule another game with them in any sport. This was the rumor I heard 1 year ago, but considering the source, it MIGHT be better than a news report.
One of things in the article you were so anxious for us to read that I didn't believe:
Osborne goes back to Lincoln and polls his coaches. He said they ALL wanted to go to the Big 10. I am assuming he meant every sport. If he means the big 3 then I might believe it. Every sport ? Bullshit.

See the word you used that I oversized for you, dog24? Try not to listen to rumors.

As for moving to the b10, of course they wanted to go. Who said they didn't? The "Osborne in the basement" angle was clearly pointed out in the article by NU's chancellor.

Moving the b12 title game to Dallas permanently.
Not being against a "Longhorn Network" as long as NU got a larger piece of the pie than most other conf members.
“Nebraska was getting largely what it wanted,'' .

The above quotes are completely opposite of the childish rhetoric that Osborne cried about incessantly. What is it about "facts" that you cannot understand? LOL, the voting record is there for everyone to see. You can either see how the NU program voted (facts) or listen to the talkshow host you listen to - a Sylvester the Cat sound alike with a Long Island accent.


SSSSSSufferin SSSSSSuccataSSSh. OSSSSSSborne doeSSSSSn't go along with TEXASSSSSSS' wiSSSSSHESSSSS! Therefore the NU voting on these ISSSSSSueSSSS of contenSSSSun obviouSSSSSly mirror doctah Tom'SSSSSSS opinionSSSSSS..

Fact (voting record on conf issues) or rumor? I'm siding with one. Your'e riding with the other.

[maddog42]

See the word you used that I oversized for you, dog24? Try not to listen to rumors.

As for moving to the b10, of course they wanted to go. Who said they didn't? The "Osborne in the basement" angle was clearly pointed out in the article by NU's chancellor.

Moving the b12 title game to Dallas permanently.
Not being against a "Longhorn Network" as long as NU got a larger piece of the pie than most other conf members.
“Nebraska was getting largely what it wanted,'' .

The above quotes are completely opposite of the childish rhetoric that Osborne cried about incessantly. What is it about "facts" that you cannot understand? LOL, the voting record is there for everyone to see. You can either see how the NU program voted (facts) or listen to the talkshow host you listen to - a Sylvester the Cat sound alike with a Long Island accent.


SSSSSSufferin SSSSSSuccataSSSh. OSSSSSSborne doeSSSSSn't go along with TEXASSSSSSS' wiSSSSSHESSSSS! Therefore the NU voting on these ISSSSSSueSSSS of contenSSSSun obviouSSSSSly mirror doctah Tom'SSSSSSS opinionSSSSSS..

Fact (voting record on conf issues) or rumor? I'm siding with one. Your'e riding with the other.

If the facts are so strong on your side why do you have to degenerate into name calling? This is adolescent to be sure. And not funny, Just stupid.
From 1 year ago:
This from Dennis Dodd at CBS Sports.com:

"Nebraska chancellor Harvey Perlman and AD Tom Osborne both took turns hammering Texas during a comment period before the board of regents. When they got done, there was only one possible result. The regents' vote was unanimous. Nebraska is headed to the Big Ten. Unspoken: Because Texas forced it out."

"The moment the news broke last week about the Pac-10's desire to take Texas and five Big 12 partners, Nebraska turned sour. Perlman, at one point, stared across a table during the Big 12 meetings at his Texas counterpart Bill Powers and asked him if he was willing to give up his media rights. In other words, start a Big 12 Network. Powers said no. At that point, Perlman knew it was over....."

"It was a bad day for Texas' reputation. It was a good day for Nebraska's future. "
It seem like the admitted hot-head Osborne got his way. I believe that every time Osborne has really put his foot down and threatened to quit, the regents came across.

[maddog42]

Elk have you ever been to Nebraska and talked to the fans about Osborne ?
He is worshipped like a God. Perlman was almost fired by not wanting to fire Pederson. Osborne comes in and fires Callahan.
Who do they hire? Pellini. The man Osborne wanted when they hired Callahan.
I actually herd that Osborne wanted to fire Callahan sooner. Nothing you have said convinces me that Osborne doesn't get what he wants. Perlman probably shows more restraint than Osborne, that is obvious. Perlman was very angry with Pellini over his little sideline outbursts, but as long as he is not caught strangling the punk Martinez and keeps the black shirts tough, he will be there.
I don't care who voted for what in meetings, Osborne seems in control. Most of that crap is posturing good guy/ bad guy stuff. I actually think You are ignoring
facts.

[toussaud]

at the end of the day the aggies are scared of life without texas and will not go anywhere.

[ElKabong]

If the facts are so strong on your side why do you have to degenerate into name calling? This is adolescent to be sure. And not funny, Just stupid.
From 1 year ago:
This from Dennis Dodd at CBS Sports.com:

"Nebraska chancellor Harvey Perlman and AD Tom Osborne both took turns hammering Texas during a comment period before the board of regents. When they got done, there was only one possible result. The regents' vote was unanimous. Nebraska is headed to the Big Ten. Unspoken: Because Texas forced it out."

"The moment the news broke last week about the Pac-10's desire to take Texas and five Big 12 partners, Nebraska turned sour. Perlman, at one point, stared across a table during the Big 12 meetings at his Texas counterpart Bill Powers and asked him if he was willing to give up his media rights. In other words, start a Big 12 Network. Powers said no. At that point, Perlman knew it was over....."

"It was a bad day for Texas' reputation. It was a good day for Nebraska's future. "
It seem like the admitted hot-head Osborne got his way. I believe that every time Osborne has really put his foot down and threatened to quit, the regents came across.

Point #1. Where did I call you a "name" in my post you copied? There's no such instance.

Point #2. You didn't post the link (which btw I think is part of PA's rules). I want to see exactly what Perlman was directly quoted as saying, not the he said-she said nonsense I read above. What you posted still stinks of rumors.

Oh yeah, Perlman's (still) on record for voting for many of the things Osborne cried so hard about as "unfair". Read the posted article... The one with direct quotes, lol

[ElKabong]

Nothing you have said convinces me that Osborne doesn't get what he wants. .

-->Osborne wanted the b12 title games in KC. NU's Chancellor submitted the vote to send the game to Dallas annually.

-->Osborne wanted unlimited PQ's on the old 25/85. TEXAS and anm both demanded a max of 4, to be downsized to 2 at a later date....Guess who won that battle? Yep, the then-NU Chancellor agreed to 4 PQ's. (and Osborne was burning mad b/c he didn't get his way)

I'm sorry, what were you saying about "Whatever Lola wants, Lola gets"? :lol:

[maddog42]

Point #1. Where did I call you a "name" in my post you copied? There's no such instance.

Point #2. You didn't post the link (which btw I think is part of PA's rules). I want to see exactly what Perlman was directly quoted as saying, not the he said-she said nonsense I read above. What you posted still stinks of rumors.

Oh yeah, Perlman's (still) on record for voting for many of the things Osborne cried so hard about as "unfair". Read the posted article... The one with direct quotes, lol

http://dennis-dodd.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270202/22507022

http://sportsbybrooks.com/tag/DeLoss_Dodds

Now lets get this straight, 2 of your main assertions are:
Osborne doesn't have the influence over Big12/Big10 politics that Perlman has.
The Longhorn Network would harm Texas recruiting.
Most people will look at these 2 assertions and wonder what you smoke in the evenings. Ex-hippie that I am (on the Wagon for 13 years. I may want to get some)
The above 2 links will verify that the previous quotes were a little more than
rumors.
The second link says that the LHN is the equivalent of a recruiting Nuclear Bomb.
You make a big deal of Osborne saying one thing and Perlman voting another way. Let me give you an example of why this means NOTHING!!!
Big 12 commisioners voted unanimously not to allow LHN to broadcast recruits games. Unanimously. That means Texas voted against its own Network. Texas didn't want to lose face in front of the entire Big 12. These things are a little more complicated than Elk would have us believe. Another one of Elk's assertions is probably wrong: That Texas would go to the Big 10. I rate this unlikely now. 60/40 that Texas goes to PAC10.
This is from the second link:
In the past five months, Scott has hired Kevin Weiberg (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2010/02/pacific-10-kevin-weiberg-deputy-commissioner-chief-operating-officer.html) as deputy commissioner and Chris Bevilacqua of Creative Artists Agency in Los Angeles. That duo is what spurred the prospect of a Pac-10 Television Network and possible alliance with Fox. (The Fox-TV business offices are across the street from CAA’s headquarters.)

Weiberg, a former commissioner of the Big 12, spent 18 months as the point man in the development of the Big Ten Television Network.

It was Weiberg who was primarily responsible for the billion-dollar windfall that the Big Ten Network will eventually bring the conference. And it is Weiberg who Scott entrusted with launching a similar venture with for the Pac-10.

A Pac10 network with Okla and Texas would probably be a 1.2 billion dollar TV
contract.

[maddog42]

While researching this inevitable Big 12 breakup, the realization hit me, that Texas is more widely despised and blamed than I thought. This is only partially true. Big 12 leadership must shoulder the blame that allowed these these other conferences to come in and pick these schools off the Big 12 tree. They negotiated a better TV contract, only when they had to. What was obvious to many: That they let Texas have what they wanted to preserve the conference,
finally caught up with them.

[Robert Goren]

You can not under estimate how much the University of Texas is dispised in Nebraska.

[maddog42]

You can not under estimate how much the University of Texas is dispised in Nebraska.

Having lived in Norman OK most of my life, I have an inkling. Get in line.

PS
I have enjoyed your bridge jumping thread a lot. Keep up the good work.

[maddog42]

Point #1. Where did I call you a "name" in my post you copied? There's no such instance.

Point #2. You didn't post the link (which btw I think is part of PA's rules). I want to see exactly what Perlman was directly quoted as saying, not the he said-she said nonsense I read above. What you posted still stinks of rumors.

Oh yeah, Perlman's (still) on record for voting for many of the things Osborne cried so hard about as "unfair". Read the posted article... The one with direct quotes, lol

Where did say I you called me a name? You called Al Eschbach a name, and made fun of his speech patterns. "a Sylvester the Cat sound alike with a Long Island accent."
Very mature.

[canleakid]

You can not under estimate how much the University of Texas is dispised in Nebraska.

Heck Texas is dispised by most every team they play :D
we feel the hate down here :p

[ElKabong]

You can not under estimate how much the University of Texas is dispised in Nebraska.

Nor do we care.

"_"

[ElKabong]

[QUOTE=maddog42
It was Weiberg who was primarily responsible for the billion-dollar windfall that the Big Ten Network will eventually bring the conference. And it is Weiberg who Scott entrusted with launching a similar venture with for the Pac-10.

.[/QUOTE]

TEXAS will move to the B10 eventually.....and we'll keep the LHN to boot.

Why aren't you and the Stooper crying about K-State's network? They have their own network too? I guess y'all just get yOUr panties in a wad over Big Brother, and don't worry about others like KSU.

Cool by me. It's good to be TEXAS.

[ElKabong]

The second link says that the LHN is the equivalent of a recruiting Nuclear Bomb.
.

Wow! A link that says the LHN is a Nuclear Bomb! That's awesome, :lol:

Did the author do a write up 20 years ago about how Notre Dame was going to dominate college football b/c they had their own network? NBC was all to themselves, every home game was nationally televised. It was a "NUCLEAR BOMB" since at the time the max anyone could be televised was 3 times per yr....Pissed off all the little dogs of college athletics. ND was going to rule college football for decades by gawd.

What happened after the Irish inked that big NBC pact, dog 42? ND got progressively worse as the years went on. Kids in HS today have no living memory of the Irish being relevant.

But you go on and worry yOUrself sick about the percieved unfair advantage. I won't mind :)

[PhantomOnTour]

Let's just play football.
This OU-UT (errrr, Maddog and Kabong)dustup is getting old.
Neither will play for the title this year.

[maddog42]

TEXAS will move to the B10 eventually.....and we'll keep the LHN to boot.

Why aren't you and the Stooper crying about K-State's network? They have their own network too? I guess y'all just get yOUr panties in a wad over Big Brother, and don't worry about others like KSU.

Cool by me. It's good to be TEXAS.

You sure did an about face on that one, once a little doubt crept into your mind.
We don't care about K-state, because they don't recruit that much in Texas. If A&m had a network or even Baylor we wouldn't like it. One minute you are whining how the LHN will hurt recruiting, the next minute you say it's all good.
Texas to the Big 10? Care to make a wager? You didn't respond to some of these other links/assertions. Time to face facts I guess.

[maddog42]

Let's just play football.
This OU-UT (errrr, Maddog and Kabong)dustup is getting old.
Neither will play for the title this year.

I don't think we will play for the title this year either. We lost our best defensive player for the first 3 games maybe longer. Our second best defensive player may be ineligible. Defense is where we are lacking.

[ElKabong]

Texas to the Big 10? Care to make a wager? You didn't respond to some of these other links/assertions. Time to face facts I guess.

What other links? Rumors is all you have.

Yeah, we'll bet $100,000.00 on UT to the b10. I'm sure you're good for it....

[canleakid]

See ya: Texas A&M leaving Big 12 ;)

http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/Texas-AM-officially-notified-the-Big-12-Wednesday-that-it-will-submit-application-to-leave-the-conference-083111?GT1=39002

[elysiantraveller]

Texas will not be in the Big10 now or in the future. That big kid on the block mentality won't work in that conference. Its going to be a mass exodus with Texas being stuck holding the bag.

[cj]

If A&M thinks they were mediocre in the Big 12, wait until they join the SEC. They'll beg for mediocrity. How many Texas kids did they just write off ever considering going there?

[Robert Goren]

I think A&M just wanted to get away from the shadow of Texas. What I don't understand is why OU stays in the "Big 12"

[cj]

I think A&M just wanted to get away from the shadow of Texas. What I don't understand is why OU stays in the "Big 12"

Maybe because they play for the national title every few years and make a lot of money?

A&M will never get away from the Texas shadow, and now it will be worse.

[Robert Goren]

Maybe because they play for the national title every few years and make a lot of money?

A&M will never get away from the Texas shadow, and now it will be worse.OU is a top program who would be in the run for national championship most years even they didn't play in the "Big 12". I think they would make even more money if they left the "Big 12".

[elysiantraveller]

OU is a top program who would be in the run for national championship most years even they didn't play in the "Big 12". I think they would make even more money if they left the "Big 12".

Oklahoma would make more money and be a welcome addition to the B10... Thats my prediction of where they end up.

A&M is going to get slaughtered in the SEC...

[maddog42]

Oklahoma would make more money and be a welcome addition to the B10... Thats my prediction of where they end up.

A&M is going to get slaughtered in the SEC...

Local newspapers have quoted "sources" at OU that we don't want to go to the
SEC. This was from Tramel who covers OU for the Oklahoman. It was implied that Stoops didn't want any part of SEC recruiting wars.They were leaning toward the Pac 10 a year ago. Like it or not OU is tied to Texas. We recruit there and Texas is our main rival.

[cj]

OU is a top program who would be in the run for national championship most years even they didn't play in the "Big 12". I think they would make even more money if they left the "Big 12".

That is highly debatable. Programs, no matter how big they appear, are never that far from mediocrity. It wasn't that long ago that OU and Texas stunk, and Texas might stink now. Remember when Miami and Florida St. were dominant? Michigan was pretty good once. How about Washington and Colorado? Past history guarantees you nothing.

There is a delicate balance with recruiting and where you play. The game is changing, and nobody really has the answers. Everyone just seems greedy now and believes the grass is greener on the other side. It rarely is.

[cj]

Local newspapers have quoted "sources" at OU that we don't want to go to the
SEC. This was from Tramel who covers OU for the Oklahoman. It was implied that Stoops didn't want any part of SEC recruiting wars.They were leaning toward the Pac 10 a year ago. Like it or not OU is tied to Texas. We recruit there and Texas is our main rival.

Who would want any parts of being in that cesspool of cheating?

[maddog42]

Who would want any parts of being in that cesspool of cheating?

Cesspool of cheating ? I assume you mean SEC. Big 10 is only a notch above
SEC with Tressel etc. Lets face it. Cheating goes on at every Major Program
including OU ,Texas, Notre Dame, Florida LSU and of course USC, and even Penn State. Joe Pa fans may get in an uproar, but Galen Hall at Penn State was at OU many years ago, and I doubt if things have changed that much. This Miami thing is a fiasco.

[Robert Goren]

Cesspool of cheating ? I assume you mean SEC. Big 10 is only a notch above
SEC with Tressel etc. Lets face it. Cheating goes on at every Major Program
including OU ,Texas, Notre Dame, Florida LSU and of course USC, and even Penn State. Joe Pa fans may get in an uproar, but Galen Hall at Penn State was at OU many years ago, and I doubt if things have changed that much. This Miami thing is a fiasco. Everything that goes on any place else goes on in triplicate in the SEC.

[cj]

Cesspool of cheating ? I assume you mean SEC. Big 10 is only a notch above
SEC with Tressel etc. Lets face it. Cheating goes on at every Major Program
including OU ,Texas, Notre Dame, Florida LSU and of course USC, and even Penn State. Joe Pa fans may get in an uproar, but Galen Hall at Penn State was at OU many years ago, and I doubt if things have changed that much. This Miami thing is a fiasco.

There is no doubt that it does, but the SEC surely leads the way these days.

[PhantomOnTour]

The SEC has also won 5 straight National Football Titles and will win another this year.
Don't tell me that UNLV basketball or Miami Canes football is any better than what you folks perceive as SEC scumbucketry. USC in the early 2000's was as messed up and crooked as any SEC team could hope to be. Don't get me started on the state of Texas....we saw what Ohio St was up to, but it's the SEC that is the gleaming gem of crookedness? Dream on boys....

By the way, Texas A&M will not get crushed in the SEC...they are very good in basketball, women's basketball (NCAA Champs), baseball and softball. Their football program may not do so well, but they are not in above their heads in the SEC.

[PhantomOnTour]

Everything that goes on any place else goes on in triplicate in the SEC.
Who in the SEC is three times the criminal that Lawrence Phillips is?
Rob, sitting in Nebraska and telling other folks how crooked they are is really rich dude.
The UN police blotter in the 90's speaks for itself.

[elysiantraveller]

The SEC allows Gray-Shirting.... need I say more?

Nobody is perfect but the SEC is furthest from nobody...

[PhantomOnTour]

The SEC allows Gray-Shirting.... need I say more?
Yes.

Gray-shirting?...is that why the SEC keeps on winning football titles?

[elysiantraveller]

Yes.

Gray-shirting?...is that why the SEC keeps on winning football titles?

YES.

You have 30 Scholarships but give out 45 commitments... Then just pick and choose. Its a huge recruitment advantage.

[PhantomOnTour]

YES.

You have 30 Scholarships but give out 45 commitments... Then just pick and choose. Its a huge recruitment advantage.
How many kids actually come to the school and get a scholarship?
Do they all come and only 30 get the ride?

[elysiantraveller]

How many kids actually come to the school and get a scholarship?
Do they all come and only 30 get the ride?

You can have at maximum 85. So about 20 are available each year. Every other conference in College Football offers a Scholarship, accepts a commitment, and loses the ability to pursue more players for that scholarship. In the SEC you can offer a scholarship, accept a commitment, and then with that same scholarship go out and try and get another commitment. When it comes to signing day you pick the one you really want and tell the other to get f@#$ed.

Explain to me how thats fair recruitment?

In the Big Ten it isn't allowed so any given year a team is capped at 20 or so commits but in the SEC you can just keep giving them out and cherry pick come signing day.

Thats how it works. The NCAA might miss some stuff but the number of kids on scholarship isn't one of them.

[ElKabong]

Texas will not be in the Big10 now or in the future. That big kid on the block mentality won't work in that conference. Its going to be a mass exodus with Texas being stuck holding the bag.

TEXAS "big kid on the block" tude comes from being in a weak conference (b12). W/o UT the thing never gets a contract of any size whatsoever. In the b10 they'd be one of the gaggle, and happy to be there.

The LHN changed things, ESPN offered 300 million reasons to wait this thing out. If the LHN takes off, UT doesn't need a conference, in their eyes or in ESPN's.

Personally I hate it. I'd rather have taken the b10's offer last summer. At some point, we'll go to the b10 b/c that's where we fit academically. We fit culturally w/ the PAC and will likely go there (soon) but the b10 is where we eventually wind up. Follow the bricks in the espn road and you'll find us there a few yrs down the road.

[ElKabong]

Who would want any parts of being in that cesspool of cheating?

Dees nuts, here. That's who...

[ElKabong]

Who in the SEC is three times the criminal that Lawrence Phillips is?
Rob, sitting in Nebraska and telling other folks how crooked they are is really rich dude.
The UN police blotter in the 90's speaks for itself.

Doctor Tom was as bad as college football had to offer esp in his later years. So to be fair, two calendar decades have gone by w/o Lawrence Phillips playing a down. I thought Solich had correct values, but alas he didn't win (or cheat or play criminals w/o a 2nd thought) like doctor Tom....so they fired him.

Speaking of Lawrence Phillips...is Jefferson and Johns going to play for LSU this season, or is Lestacles going to do the right thing and kick one or both off the team?

Trick question....we both know they'll play. Guilty of crimes or not

I'll match the Albert Means recruiting nightmare with anything anywhere in college sports. Cheating. A death. A benefactor that threw $$ around like towels at a spa. And the kid had an SAT of about 0.00000012. Like it or not, people see the SEC as the ncaa sewer when it comes to recruiting.

[Robert Goren]

Who in the SEC is three times the criminal that Lawrence Phillips is?
Rob, sitting in Nebraska and telling other folks how crooked they are is really rich dude.
The UN police blotter in the 90's speaks for itself.Phillips was very bad guy. UNL has a history of taking "troubled" kids dating back to Johnny Rodgers who rob a gas station(are you old enough to remember those?). Sexual assault seems to be at times a training routine for football player here. What UNL has managed to do is steer clear of an athletes-getting-paid scandal so far. Knock on wood!

[canleakid]

Texas A&M will do ok in the "good ole SEC" might even play in the SEC Conference Championship in a few years down the road :ThmbUp:

[ElKabong]

Texas A&M will do ok in the "good ole SEC" might even play in the SEC Conference Championship in a few years down the road :ThmbUp:

aggy's record vs their top B12 South rivals since the inception of the B12

aggy, 5-10 vs Tech
aggy, 5-10 vs OU
aggy, 5-10 vs TEXAS

Looking at the above records & the caliber of said teams, I'm not optimistic that aTm will do better vs Alabama, LSU, Auburn.......

[Dahoss2002]

aggy's record vs their top B12 South rivals since the inception of the B12

aggy, 5-10 vs Tech
aggy, 5-10 vs OU
aggy, 5-10 vs TEXAS

Looking at the above records & the caliber of said teams, I'm not optimistic that aTm will do better vs Alabama, LSU, Auburn.......
Yea they aint goin to an easier conference!!! LOL :lol:

[maddog42]

TEXAS "big kid on the block" tude comes from being in a weak conference (b12). W/o UT the thing never gets a contract of any size whatsoever. In the b10 they'd be one of the gaggle, and happy to be there.

The LHN changed things, ESPN offered 300 million reasons to wait this thing out. If the LHN takes off, UT doesn't need a conference, in their eyes or in ESPN's.

Personally I hate it. I'd rather have taken the b10's offer last summer. At some point, we'll go to the b10 b/c that's where we fit academically. We fit culturally w/ the PAC and will likely go there (soon) but the b10 is where we eventually wind up. Follow the bricks in the espn road and you'll find us there a few yrs down the road.

The Big Kid On the Block attitude comes from TV revenue and ratings, not so much on the field performance. Political Power. OU has benefited greatly from this Big 10/Texas affiliation so it has not been all bad. Why shouldn't OU start its own Network ? Did you think we would cede this advantage to Texas ? If it interferes with our PAC goals, then we will drop it. The LHN may turn out to be an albatross to Texas. Too early to tell. If you think that academics will decide where Texas goes, you are hitting the PIPE again. Money and geopolitical issues will decide.

[canleakid]

After the first week of the season all the teams in the Big 12 Conference '"WON" :D

[ElKabong]

The Big Kid On the Block attitude comes from TV revenue and ratings, not so much on the field performance. Political Power. OU has benefited greatly from this Big 10/Texas affiliation so it has not been all bad. Why shouldn't OU start its own Network ? Did you think we would cede this advantage to Texas ? If it interferes with our PAC goals, then we will drop it. The LHN may turn out to be an albatross to Texas. Too early to tell. If you think that academics will decide where Texas goes, you are hitting the PIPE again. Money and geopolitical issues will decide.

You misunderstood my "tude" / big kid on the block comment. TEXAS, Dodds at his position, was concerned about the b12 from the start. None of the other states not named Missouri had any power whatsover in the way of potential tv appeal. Neb, OK, KAN, are too small to sway networks. ISU was a bastard child, in the Hawkeyes shadow. CU has a fickle / frontrunning fanbase, that has an unusually high # of alums living in So Cal (a pitch for their pac12 admission for certian).

This made for a very weak conf when wrestling for tv$....DeLoss at the behest of the BOR (at the behest of power alums) stepped up his presence in order to get things structured as best we could for better contracts

You're right, yOU, and anm even, got better deals b/c of it. But the conf was doomed from the get go.

If the LHN does hold us back for a yr, so be it. We'll land somewhere, hopefully w/ the b10. Personally I wish we'd told espn to take the 300 mill and get lost, but $ drives everything these days in college athletics....The CIC is something the Univ wants to be a part of very much. At some point we'll land in the b10 (16 teams)

As for the sooner network, I just found it funny how your reaction was to the LHN vs what our fan base's reaction to 0u's network. Almost to a man, everyone is onboard with 0u getting their own network. Compare that to your comments, and a lot of ags.....it just seems funny to me, that's all

http://forums.hornfans.com/php/wwwthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=football&Number=6396628&page=3&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=

[ElKabong]

After the first week of the season all the teams in the Big 12 Conference '"WON" :D

was SMOO the best team scheduled in week 1 ?

[Dahoss2002]

Having lived in Norman OK most of my life, I have an inkling. Get in line.

Originally Posted by Robert Goren
You can not under estimate how much the University of Texas is dispised in Nebraska.

.
After reading this thread, I realize why I never liked the Big 12 that much. First, Im an LSU fan, but I watch alot of college ball. I miss the days of the Big 8 and the annual Nebraska - Oklahoma game when Osborne and the Switz paced the sidelines. Sure the Big 12 had their reasons but that was a helluva rivalry to breakup.

[canleakid]

What a crock of crap :mad:

http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/APNewsBreak-Baylor-raised-issues-over-AM-to-SEC-90575253

[ElKabong]

kid,

Baylor, again? They f'd up the original b12 if you recall, now they're screwing this move for the ags.

Originally TCU was the 12th University to join the b12, but a major political power broker (not ann richards, but i don't recall his name) basically screwed the process....and TCU got the shaft.

As of this evening more than just BU is holding this up....and no, TEXAS isn't one of them. So much for "TEXAS is destroying the conference" shit, please. :) .... ISU, Baylor and KSU have a lot to lose in this. If anm goes, 0u and oSu likely go west. That happens, UT is either going with them (with Tech) or going Independant b/c of the LHN.

That leaves Baylor, KU, KSU, ISU and Mizzou.....Mizzou and KU can find a major conf, the others likely not. The MWC awaits....

and that pisses off the old guard in Waco. They just won't let this go. They are still living the Don Trull-to-Lawrence Elkins, and Neil Jeffrey /Steve Beard eras.

[ElKabong]

ok, I'm going to play the Baylor side of this thing...I just saw a post (pasted, last paragraph) on hornfans, makes sense.

review- > BU and some other b12 Universities are saying "we signed a deal just a few months ago. You got what you wanted out of it; more money than us 'smaller programs'. Now you want out? WTF?"

http://forums.hornfans.com/php/wwwthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=football&Number=6401515&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=all

That is hilarious about Bowen (A&M)... I'm going to call my mortgage company and tell them they are holding me hostage because they expect payments from me. I just want to move out and sell the damn thing and keep the money...

[ElKabong]

Gitcher popcorn ready....sooners hold the fate of the smaller programs fate. Reminds me of the Rolling Stone cover yrs ago - Buy this issue or I'll shoot the dog ;)

http://www.wacotrib.com/news/breakingnews/Big-12-school-threatens-legal-action-as-SEC-invites-Texas-AM-to-join-league.html

UPDATE, 3:55 PM: Baylor was among six Big 12 schools that will not sign a waiver to allow Texas A&M to go to the Southeastern Conference following a meeting of the Big 12 presidents Wednesday afternoon, a source close to Baylor told the Tribune-Herald.

The other schools were Kansas, Kansas State, Texas Tech, Iowa State and Missouri.

If Oklahoma reaffirms its commitment to the Big 12, the schools are expected to sign the waiver that would allow the Aggies to go to the SEC without any legal action. The Sooners, who are reportedly considering a move to the Pac-12, are expected to make their decision within the next two weeks.

— Tribune-Herald staff

[maddog42]

Gitcher popcorn ready....sooners hold the fate of the smaller programs fate. Reminds me of the Rolling Stone cover yrs ago - Buy this issue or I'll shoot the dog ;)

http://www.wacotrib.com/news/breakingnews/Big-12-school-threatens-legal-action-as-SEC-invites-Texas-AM-to-join-league.html

UPDATE, 3:55 PM: Baylor was among six Big 12 schools that will not sign a waiver to allow Texas A&M to go to the Southeastern Conference following a meeting of the Big 12 presidents Wednesday afternoon, a source close to Baylor told the Tribune-Herald.

The other schools were Kansas, Kansas State, Texas Tech, Iowa State and Missouri.

If Oklahoma reaffirms its commitment to the Big 12, the schools are expected to sign the waiver that would allow the Aggies to go to the SEC without any legal action. The Sooners, who are reportedly considering a move to the Pac-12, are expected to make their decision within the next two weeks.

— Tribune-Herald staff

I just realized I am a true conservative. I hate change. As liberal as i am on lifestyle, maybe I should say Status Quo. Since OU won 7 of the 15 Big 12
titles, maybe it is fitting that we decide its fate. NAH !! It ain't fair.

[maddog42]

Gitcher popcorn ready....sooners hold the fate of the smaller programs fate. Reminds me of the Rolling Stone cover yrs ago - Buy this issue or I'll shoot the dog ;)

http://www.wacotrib.com/news/breakingnews/Big-12-school-threatens-legal-action-as-SEC-invites-Texas-AM-to-join-league.html

UPDATE, 3:55 PM: Baylor was among six Big 12 schools that will not sign a waiver to allow Texas A&M to go to the Southeastern Conference following a meeting of the Big 12 presidents Wednesday afternoon, a source close to Baylor told the Tribune-Herald.

The other schools were Kansas, Kansas State, Texas Tech, Iowa State and Missouri.

If Oklahoma reaffirms its commitment to the Big 12, the schools are expected to sign the waiver that would allow the Aggies to go to the SEC without any legal action. The Sooners, who are reportedly considering a move to the Pac-12, are expected to make their decision within the next two weeks.

— Tribune-Herald staff

Not to be nitpicky, but I am pretty sure that was a National Lampoon cover.
Nat Lamp was easily the best Comic mag of the last 35 years

[canleakid]

What's next???????????

http://www.statesman.com/sports/longhorns/ut-independence-fraught-with-peril-1830666.html

[maddog42]

ok, I'm going to play the Baylor side of this thing...I just saw a post (pasted, last paragraph) on hornfans, makes sense.

review- > BU and some other b12 Universities are saying "we signed a deal just a few months ago. You got what you wanted out of it; more money than us 'smaller programs'. Now you want out? WTF?"

http://forums.hornfans.com/php/wwwthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=football&Number=6401515&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=all

That is hilarious about Bowen (A&M)... I'm going to call my mortgage company and tell them they are holding me hostage because they expect payments from me. I just want to move out and sell the damn thing and keep the money...

Berry Tramel of the Oklahoman talks about the Big 12 Stalemate.
Texas A&M wants to go to the SEC but Baylor won't let them.
SEC won't let A&M in until Baylor promises not to sue.

OU wants to go to the Pac-12 (and take OSU along) but can’t, immediately, because Pac-12 commissioner Larry Scott, having been burned by Big 12 schools last summer, says his conference won’t expand until another conference goes beyond 12 schools. Which means A&M and the SEC. Which means OU is waiting on A&M.

But Baylor says it will relent and let A&M go, if the Sooners agree to recommit to the Big 12. The Sooners vow that they are committed to a 10-team Big 12, but not a nine-team Big 12. With no A&M, the Sooners are ready to bolt.

So did you get that? A&M is waiting on Baylor, Baylor is waiting on OU and OU is waiting on A&M.
Helluva mess.

http://blog.newsok.com/berrytramel/

[ElKabong]

Berry Tramel of the Oklahoman talks about the Big 12 Stalemate.
Texas A&M wants to go to the SEC but Baylor won't let them.
SEC won't let A&M in until Baylor promises not to sue.

OU wants to go to the Pac-12 (and take OSU along) but can’t, immediately, because Pac-12 commissioner Larry Scott, having been burned by Big 12 schools last summer, says his conference won’t expand until another conference goes beyond 12 schools. Which means A&M and the SEC. Which means OU is waiting on A&M.

But Baylor says it will relent and let A&M go, if the Sooners agree to recommit to the Big 12. The Sooners vow that they are committed to a 10-team Big 12, but not a nine-team Big 12. With no A&M, the Sooners are ready to bolt.

So did you get that? A&M is waiting on Baylor, Baylor is waiting on OU and OU is waiting on A&M.
Helluva mess.

http://blog.newsok.com/berrytramel/

Something tells me lawyers in the deep south and southwest are going to clean house ($ wise) in the next 12 months over this issue. A lawyer's dream, right here-- also a fan's nightmare.

[canleakid]

AFTER THE 3rd. WEEK
the Big 12 errr 10 :confused: aka dead conference walking, has a very good record 23 wins and only lost 2 games, and all the teams have a winning record, yea I know it is way to early but just saying ;)

[Storm Cadet]

and the house of cards just crumbled...ESPN reporting UT- Tex Tech- OU and OSU to Pac 12...PUKONN and RATGERS heading to ACC with Cuse and Shitsburgh...Big Least will have to take in crumbs from Big 12 Kansas- KSU-Missouri and one more. What a mess! :mad:

[ElKabong]

Storm,

if true, I'm very disappointed. The PAC is very weak for football, not as good as the b12 for basketball, and the other sports are going to be extremely costly to travel for.

One good thing....all that shit that CU's dept was talking about TEXAS calling the shots in the b12 and that's why they left...."Guess what, bitches.....?" :)

[ElKabong]

AFTER THE 3rd. WEEK
the Big 12 errr 10 :confused: aka dead conference walking, has a very good record 23 wins and only lost 2 games, and all the teams have a winning record, yea I know it is way to early but just saying ;)

This is the unfortunate part of the fallout. The b12 was 2nd only to the $EC in football. Competitively it was a very good conference. Problem is, other than the state of TX very few tv's are tied to other conference teams for the routine games.

FWIW, KU was cleaning up in Tier 3 revenues. IIRC, they had something like 6x the T3 revenues than TEXAS did. Wherever they land they s/b ok. It's not like their hoops program is going to go down the tubes. It'll always be a top 10 program and have a rabid following

[ElKabong]

re: the new PAC16

Why is Tech going , and KU not?? KU is far more prestigious a program. Tech isn't tied to UT in any way (like oSu and 0u apparently are)

Also, the big winner in this mess is 0u. (a) they keep the TEXAS-0U game, which is the lifeblood of their recruiting & has been since 1947, (b) the deal gives the illusion that 0u is dragging UT along with them, (c) it allows them inroads to recruiting in Calif, which they're clearly going to need when UT leaves for the B IG in 5-6 yrs.

TEXAS wins in the deal only in that they can keep the LHN. $300,000,000.00 belongs to the Horns. Apparently all the ACC / B IG / $EC talk was just a card to play to keep the LHN if the PAC took the bait....The deal is we can keep our LHN, but if the LHN doesn't meet 1/16 of the PAC tv cash, we dig into THEIR till as well.....Good job of negotiating, Deloss and Powers!

conf is to be split into 4 pods...

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/longhorns/entries/2011/09/18/official_potent.html

[witchdoctor]

re: the new PAC16

Why is Tech going , and KU not?? ]

Because KU sucks at football and this is football driven.

[ElKabong]

Doc,

Yep....but I'll miss those UT-KU hoops games.

I'm reading that the PAC (and UT) wanted Tech over KU for different reasons.
>UT, for recruiting reasons. They were worried Tech might to brought into the $EC, meaning the SEC had the 2nd and 3rd largest Universities as members. That would give the SEC a leg up not only for tv viewership, but also for recruiting. As is, aggy is a "dead program walking" in the SEC. Little interest outside of their existing faithful will follow them now.

>PAC, for TV sets for football. They wanted the 3rd biggest program here for the tv viewership to go along w/ UT. It solidifies the tv viewership somewhat

Me, I'd have taken SMU, TCU, or even Baylor over Tech. Get a DFW area University for the media exposure. Even SMU would have their program elevated by this move. All 3 programs have good enough facilites to be comparative with existing PAC memberships.

My favorite angle of this whole things is "and it's goodbye to A&M" as our fight song says. The PAC scheduling locks down dates from mid Oct thru December. I'm sure they'll want to play us in Sept...Screw em. Enjoy your trips to the deep south, ags :)

[maddog42]

re: the new PAC16

Why is Tech going , and KU not?? KU is far more prestigious a program. Tech isn't tied to UT in any way (like oSu and 0u apparently are)

Also, the big winner in this mess is 0u. (a) they keep the TEXAS-0U game, which is the lifeblood of their recruiting & has been since 1947, (b) the deal gives the illusion that 0u is dragging UT along with them, (c) it allows them inroads to recruiting in Calif, which they're clearly going to need when UT leaves for the B IG in 5-6 yrs.

TEXAS wins in the deal only in that they can keep the LHN. $300,000,000.00 belongs to the Horns. Apparently all the ACC / B IG / $EC talk was just a card to play to keep the LHN if the PAC took the bait....The deal is we can keep our LHN, but if the LHN doesn't meet 1/16 of the PAC tv cash, we dig into THEIR till as well.....Good job of negotiating, Deloss and Powers!

conf is to be split into 4 pods...

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/longhorns/entries/2011/09/18/official_potent.html


While I agree with pretty much everything you say, I don't like this change. I don't like the PAC 10. This sucks for fans and family who drive to games.

[ElKabong]

yeah, me neither....the conference we're moving to is weaker than the one we currently compete in.

and it looks like the LHN gets watered down, we'll have to run some "PAC content"...and i'm ok with that....hard to fill programming 24/7 for UT sports. The take may be half of the 350MM, which should please all partys involved.

I'm just hoping that either the conf holds together, or, if 0u et al decides to leave the conf dead in the water, then the BIG announces the addition of UT, ND....The PAC does nothing for me

[canleakid]

Let's see from Austin about 820mi. to Lincoln long drive and kind of :sleeping: :sleeping: to LA 1400 mi. (sleep over in El Paso) a few extra bucks and time on the road :confused: worth it :ThmbUp: , and if I fly no contest LA via Southwest, flights into Lincoln :ThmbDown: oh the life of a football fan :faint:

[Robert Goren]

Let's see from Austin about 820mi. to Lincoln long drive and kind of :sleeping: :sleeping: to LA 1400 mi. (sleep over in El Paso) a few extra bucks and time on the road :confused: worth it :ThmbUp: , and if I fly no contest LA via Southwest, flights into Lincoln :ThmbDown: oh the life of a football fan :faint:I agree that there are very few things that suck more than Lincoln airport.

[ElKabong]

You know what's weird? NONE of the b12 programs have made a move yet. Pitt and Syr have announced their moves. That came out of nowhere almost, but anm, 0u, UT etc haven't officially moved on.

One thing to ponder....The ten members of the b12 signed a 10 year contract this past spring, were pounding their chests in unison that they were a solid group of programs dedicated to maintaining a strong conference. All ten members knew of the LHN, knew what was going on around them.

WTF changed? Why did A&M decide to move to the SEC when weeks earlier they signed onto the multi year b12 contract? The LHN is a strawman/ whiney arguement. Aggy knew all about the LHN all along. In fact, Dodds went to Byrne and offered a TEXAS - Texas A&M network deal a year ago, was turned down.....0u signed on, knowing of the LHN also. 0u and A&M both got what they wanted out of the deal - more tv cash than the KSU's, Okie State's of the world.

Makes you wonder why 0u and anm changed their minds so suddenly.

A Baylor alum told me this weekend that the b12 breakup will cost them about 10mm a year. That puts a huge dent in their budget. Thus, their lawsuit against aggy

[ElKabong]

Let's see from Austin about 820mi. to Lincoln long drive and kind of :sleeping: :sleeping: to LA 1400 mi. (sleep over in El Paso) a few extra bucks and time on the road :confused: worth it :ThmbUp: , and if I fly no contest LA via Southwest, flights into Lincoln :ThmbDown: oh the life of a football fan :faint:

I'd rather TEXAS go independant than to the PAC. Looking at the posts on hornfans and other UT boards my guess is it's 3-1 in favor of "rather keep the LHN than join the PAC with LHN limitations" right now. Even the ACC option is more appealing than the PAC.

Look at it this way...0u is going to do what they can to ensure TEXAS goes with them to the PAC. If 0u leaves for the PAC and we stay put, 0u's recruiting takes a huge hit. They'll need to cultivate Calif, and do it quick. That's not an easy deal, trying to replace Texas kids with Calif kids. With UT, 0U has both TX and CA for recruiting- best of both worlds. but they will always need TX blue chippers to be a top 10 program. That will never change.

0u doesn't want to happen to them, what happened to Arkansas. Ark used to be a perennial top 10-15 team, then left the SWC. That Texas connection for 4-5* recruits dried up in a matter of 3 years. Pretty quick, didn't take long for TX kids to forget about Razorback football & the SEC doesn't offer any appeal here either. They did a good job of establishing *some* deep south HS connections, but they're not nearly as prominent now as they were in the SWC when the SWC had 3 teams in the top 10 or top 15 week after week.

That's what 0u is facing. Factor oSu's impact by 10 or more in this.

If UT goes to the ACC or B1G, they'll drop 0u from the schedule. Boren knows this (Stoops may not, I doubt he cares at this point). That will have a huge impact on both OKLA programs. I'm not saying they'll crater, but they'll have to cultivate new recruiting inroads & do it fast. All they have to do is recall how long it took for TX kids to think of ARK as "out if sight, out of mind". If Ark wasn't playing UT or A&m, no one was watching them here other than their alums.

That's why, imho, Boren and 0u hasn't made the move yet, nor did they make the move last year before signing the 10-13 year b12 contract. They're trying to drag UT along wherever they go. I think they'll leave w/o TEXAS only as a last resort. It's not about being "tied at the hip" with UT so much as they know they need TEXAS-OU to keep the recruiting pipeline going.

[maddog42]

I'd rather TEXAS go independant than to the PAC. Looking at the posts on hornfans and other UT boards my guess is it's 3-1 in favor of "rather keep the LHN than join the PAC with LHN limitations" right now. Even the ACC option is more appealing than the PAC.

Look at it this way...0u is going to do what they can to ensure TEXAS goes with them to the PAC. If 0u leaves for the PAC and we stay put, 0u's recruiting takes a huge hit. They'll need to cultivate Calif, and do it quick. That's not an easy deal, trying to replace Texas kids with Calif kids. With UT, 0U has both TX and CA for recruiting- best of both worlds. but they will always need TX blue chippers to be a top 10 program. That will never change.

0u doesn't want to happen to them, what happened to Arkansas. Ark used to be a perennial top 10-15 team, then left the SWC. That Texas connection for 4-5* recruits dried up in a matter of 3 years. Pretty quick, didn't take long for TX kids to forget about Razorback football & the SEC doesn't offer any appeal here either. They did a good job of establishing *some* deep south HS connections, but they're not nearly as prominent now as they were in the SWC when the SWC had 3 teams in the top 10 or top 15 week after week.

That's what 0u is facing. Factor oSu's impact by 10 or more in this.

If UT goes to the ACC or B1G, they'll drop 0u from the schedule. Boren knows this (Stoops may not, I doubt he cares at this point). That will have a huge impact on both OKLA programs. I'm not saying they'll crater, but they'll have to cultivate new recruiting inroads & do it fast. All they have to do is recall how long it took for TX kids to think of ARK as "out if sight, out of mind". If Ark wasn't playing UT or A&m, no one was watching them here other than their alums.

That's why, imho, Boren and 0u hasn't made the move yet, nor did they make the move last year before signing the 10-13 year b12 contract. They're trying to drag UT along wherever they go. I think they'll leave w/o TEXAS only as a last resort. It's not about being "tied at the hip" with UT so much as they know they need TEXAS-OU to keep the recruiting pipeline going.

While I agree that OU needs the OU-Texas game for recruiting, we do not need to be in the same conference to recruit Texas. Switzer did just fine while we were in the Big 8. I totally agree that OU needs the Texas rivalry to recruit Texas. I don't think Texas will cancel the OU-Texas game no matter what happens with conference realignment. It benefits Texas almost as much as OU. We are joined at the hip. Texas and Ou fans woulld go crazy if this game were cancelled. The Dallas trip is beyond cool and fantastic.

[ElKabong]

While I agree that OU needs the OU-Texas game for recruiting, we do not need to be in the same conference to recruit Texas. Switzer did just fine while we were in the Big 8. I totally agree that OU needs the Texas rivalry to recruit Texas. I don't think Texas will cancel the OU-Texas game no matter what happens with conference realignment. It benefits Texas almost as much as OU. We are joined at the hip. Texas and Ou fans woulld go crazy if this game were cancelled. The Dallas trip is beyond cool and fantastic.

I agree, I'd miss the series too.

But if we went to the B1G we'd have a series with Notre Dame, tOSU, Michigan. We wouldn't miss 0u after a short period of time to be honest.

The rivalries wouldn't be the same, but different nonetheless. And, the RRS rivalry only benefits UT b/c of the games influence on the LHF and season tix holders. By playing in the B1G that angle evaporates. We'd make more $$ in the B1G w/o 0u on the schedule.

Switzer always said that his recruiting pitch benefitted UT as much as OU...He'd tell kids "Look, you want to play in this game. Cotton Bowl. State Fair. Interstate rivalry. Great football. This game is what college ball is all about". He said he steered many a kid away from anm or Arkansas to the Horns with that pitch, but he got more than his fair share of TX 4-5* kids with that approach.

Without TEXAS-0u, it hits 0u very hard. Our recruiting will always be tied to the success of the program..... 0u's is very much tied into that rivalry.... I think Boren knows this better than anyone and will do whatever it takes to keep them in the same conf b/c once we split, the rivalry is over. Like cj said "it's not 1975 anymore". The rivalry is expendable if 0u deems the b12 as such.

Look at it this way...Dodds has already said he's cutting anm out of our schedule if they leave. If we cut out anm for leaving, we'll damn sure cut 0u out too (again, Boren understands this; Stoops, not being an Okie, doesn't care as much)

But I'd sure miss it for awhile,

[ElKabong]

The rivalries wouldn't be the same, but different nonetheless.

i meant to post "the rivalries wouldn't be the same, but great nonetheless"

I really shouldn't post after midnite, too tired :eek:

[maddog42]

I agree, I'd miss the series too.

But if we went to the B1G we'd have a series with Notre Dame, tOSU, Michigan. We wouldn't miss 0u after a short period of time to be honest.

The rivalries wouldn't be the same, but different nonetheless. And, the RRS rivalry only benefits UT b/c of the games influence on the LHF and season tix holders. By playing in the B1G that angle evaporates. We'd make more $$ in the B1G w/o 0u on the schedule.

Switzer always said that his recruiting pitch benefitted UT as much as OU...He'd tell kids "Look, you want to play in this game. Cotton Bowl. State Fair. Interstate rivalry. Great football. This game is what college ball is all about". He said he steered many a kid away from anm or Arkansas to the Horns with that pitch, but he got more than his fair share of TX 4-5* kids with that approach.

Without TEXAS-0u, it hits 0u very hard. Our recruiting will always be tied to the success of the program..... 0u's is very much tied into that rivalry.... I think Boren knows this better than anyone and will do whatever it takes to keep them in the same conf b/c once we split, the rivalry is over. Like cj said "it's not 1975 anymore". The rivalry is expendable if 0u deems the b12 as such.

Look at it this way...Dodds has already said he's cutting anm out of our schedule if they leave. If we cut out anm for leaving, we'll damn sure cut 0u out too (again, Boren understands this; Stoops, not being an Okie, doesn't care as much)

But I'd sure miss it for awhile,

Cancelling the OU-Texas game would be "cutting off your nose to spite your face". This "MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY" attitude is what caused A&M and Nebraska to leave. Texas will not cancel the OU game no matter what happens. I will bet on this. Dodds plays a mean game of poker,but really he is
not an idiot. Ohio State versus Texas, would take about 20 years to compete against the OU-Texas matchup. And even then Texans would be saying remember when we played OU in the cotton bowl? Dodds is not bluffing with AnM, but he is bluffing about cancelling OU. You know it and I know it.

[canleakid]

Stuff to read and think about ;)

http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/the-geography-of-college-football-fans-and-realignment-chaos/

[maddog42]

Stuff to read and think about ;)

http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/the-geography-of-college-football-fans-and-realignment-chaos/
Good article canleak.

[ceejay]

Cancelling the OU-Texas game would be "cutting off your nose to spite your face".
I am certainly no expert on the economics of major college football/television; however, I would think that there is too much money in that game to let it die. And one thing that I am pretty sure about is that major college sports is all about the money.

[ElKabong]

Cancelling the OU-Texas game would be "cutting off your nose to spite your face". This "MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY" attitude is what caused A&M and Nebraska to leave.

The "my way or the highway"? Neb, A&M and Okla are all acting on their own accord and either leaving or have left. No one forced their hands....
including UT.

If I were to ask you "why did NU leave", you couldn't give a credible answer that points the blame at UT. You could give emotional answers, yes. But no fact based answers that stands up on its own. Same for 0u and the aggies.

The LHN was born out of 2 actions. 1- UT pushed for a b12 Network like the b10 has. It was turned down. 2-UT asked A&M to go into a partnership on a network. A&M said "no".

UT wanted to get a network going that was inclusive, was turned back. ESPN comes in and says they want in the "UT" business, can we give you 300 million dollars to get it going.....every program in the nation would say YES, and you know it.

This is about envy.....Not "my way or the highway".... There's really no reason for 0u or anm to leave other than the emotional displays going on. They just signed a 10+ year deal not long ago with the full knowledge of the LHN's early formation.

What changed, esp for 0u and A&M? The knowledge that TEXAS was being given 300 million bucks to move forward with a plan that was originally extended to the entire conference, then to A&m as a joint venture.

Envy

[ElKabong]

I am certainly no expert on the economics of major college football/television; however, I would think that there is too much money in that game to let it die. And one thing that I am pretty sure about is that major college sports is all about the money.

no expert here either, ceejay. But if 0u does decide to split for the PAC, and UT decides to replace 0u on the schedule, it won't be with dead air. One natural option is to schedule ND is October to replace 0u, esp if we have to go Indy. All of a sudden, economically, it makes sense to keep the LHN and replace 0u.

And if it really is all about the $, then UT, OU would currently be playing the series home and home, correct? Remember all that talk of home and home in the late 90s? It was considered strongly. Thank goodness nothing there changed for the sake of $$.

The irony (possibly) is that if 0u does bolt for the PAC, they'll have to succumb to the LHN every other year to play TEXAS since it's no longer a conf game. Does Boren give in to that? I don't know. Ironic....if 0u wants to keep the rivalry alive they'll have to feed the LHN's ratings. Dodds esp would revel in that (if 0u does give us the finger and leave the conference).

[ElKabong]

Interesting, if true. Hard to tell what is truth and what is posture from both Conference officials and University reps in these releases.

If true, and the PAC won't agree to TEXAS' terms on the LHN, you have to wonder why they didn't take 0u and oSu. Are they not good enough programs / institutions for the PAC to accept on their own? If that's true, then the "0u holds all the cards" thought would be incorrect, and I bought into it to a degree.

http://www2.registerguard.com/cms/index.php/opinions-on-sports/comments/breaking-pac-12-decides-not-to-expand/

PAC-12 AFFIRMS DECISION NOT TO EXPAND



WALNUT CREEK, Calif.-- In light of the widespread speculation about potential scenarios for Conference re-alignment, the Pac-12 Presidents and Chancellors have affirmed their decision to remain a 12-team conference. Pac-12 Commissioner Larry Scott said, “after careful review we have determined that it is in the best interests of our member institutions, student-athletes and fans to remain a 12-team conference. While we have great respect for all of the institutions that have contacted us, and certain expansion proposals were financially attractive, we have a strong conference structure and culture of equality that we are committed to preserve. With new landmark TV agreements and plans to launch our innovative television networks, we are going to focus solely on these great assets, our strong heritage and the bright future in front of us.””

[maddog42]

The "my way or the highway"? Neb, A&M and Okla are all acting on their own accord and either leaving or have left. No one forced their hands....
including UT.

If I were to ask you "why did NU leave", you couldn't give a credible answer that points the blame at UT. You could give emotional answers, yes. But no fact based answers that stands up on its own. Same for 0u and the aggies.

The LHN was born out of 2 actions. 1- UT pushed for a b12 Network like the b10 has. It was turned down. 2-UT asked A&M to go into a partnership on a network. A&M said "no".

UT wanted to get a network going that was inclusive, was turned back. ESPN comes in and says they want in the "UT" business, can we give you 300 million dollars to get it going.....every program in the nation would say YES, and you know it.

This is about envy.....Not "my way or the highway".... There's really no reason for 0u or anm to leave other than the emotional displays going on. They just signed a 10+ year deal not long ago with the full knowledge of the LHN's early formation.

What changed, esp for 0u and A&M? The knowledge that TEXAS was being given 300 million bucks to move forward with a plan that was originally extended to the entire conference, then to A&m as a joint venture.

Envy

Elk you are at least partially right, in that Envy of money and the drive for money caused a lot of this.All I know is what I read. And many people are blaming Texas and the LHN. We don't know what has been going on behind closed doors. But there is a lot of anger at Texas and maybe the LHN was the last straw for AnM. I believe Boren was telling the truth that a 10 team Big 12
was tolerable, but a nine team was not. A lot of rich politicos and power wielders/money grubbers (Boone Pickens) and other Texas oil types tried hard to keep AnM in the fold. I think to no avail. Local radio seems to think this PAC 10 merger is a done deal, but they were wrong last year.
There really are no "fact based answers" on any of this mess. Two years ago I was hearing all sorts of rumors and backlash about Texas coming from AD's and assistant AD's and even from my buddies in Admissions and Records at OU.
Do we really know what kind of Deals were offered OU and AnM? Not to my knowledge. The ACC demands equal revenue sharing for conference members
and I knew this would wreck the Texas deal. Texas and OU as 2 of the top 10 Tier in NCAA football always ask for more money.
As for me repeating rumors, I noticed you didn't mind repeating a bad one about Bud Wilkinson: "Everyone knew he was paying players". Your source on the Ncaa investigation doesn't say anything about Bud paying players. If you think that OU and Anm were offered equal shares of the Longhorn Network or a Big 12 network you are probably misinformed. Most conferences have outlawed an individual school having a solo network. So why did the big 12 ok it? Texas Political muscle pure and simple. I notice that ESPN has stepped heavy into the PAC 10/ Big 12 merger. They already have a PAC 10 deal, and they are offering to change it to accomodate the LHN. I guess they had to, since TV revenue seems to trump everything.
Never scheduling someone again is exactly "my way or the highway".

Elk I apologise for ranting and going on and on and ragging you too much. I think you know most of this already, but:
Scott the Pac 10 commissioner says about OU-Texas game:

http://bleacherreport.com/tb/bbhvG


Scott confirmed that new conference bylaws mandate that nonconference games be played in the first three weeks. USC-Notre Dame and Notre Dame-Stanford were given grandfather status. There are no plans for exceptions going forward, Scott said.
If Oklahoma joins the Pac-12 and Texas doesn’t, their traditional matchup at the State Fair could end. If both are in the Pac-12, Scott indicated no problems for an October game.

WTF!! He would give USC-Notre Dame this exemption but not for an OU-Texas game??? Notre Dame-Stanford?????? I guess Notre Dame carries a mighty big stick. Now I KNOW he is using this as leverage to get Texas in the conference, but he really has a lot of nerve.

[maddog42]

Much of my previous post has been wrought meaningless with this PAC 10 announcement not to expand. Maybe the OU-Texas game was a deal breaker. Who Knows?
What would cause Scott to make the above statements and then abruptly change course? Someone; Either OU or Texas nixed this deal.

[ElKabong]

dog,

I enjoyed reading your posts above. Agreed with most of it all.

Here's what I read into the PAC turning down the 4 b12 programs when I read it at 9pm.....
PAC wasn't going to take in the LHN, plain and simple. They likely set Boren aside and asked him to "convince" UT to ditch the LHN, which of course wasn't going to happen. When it was clear the LHN isn't going away, the PAC not only turned us away, but 0u and oSu as well.

WTF? "Dear OU. Bring me TEXAS, or go away"....was that the arrangement? If so, they can enjoy Sacramento State beating up on Oregon State all they like. Screw em.

btw, THE $EC does allow programs to keep their tier 3 deals. UF has the Sunshine Network. Vandy and Ole Miss don't bitch and complain, not sure why the b12 members bitch about the LHN (esp since we invested MILLIONS in the LHN prior to Espn's involvement).

So....maybe the $EC is where TEXAS eventually winds up. If that happens, is it goodbye to the TEXAS-OU series afterall? The SEC isn't going to be interested in taking in oSu. You guys would need to find a way to ditch lil brother to get in (no doubt the SEC would welcome OU asap, even if the PAC didn't).

[ElKabong]

Scott confirmed that new conference bylaws mandate that nonconference games be played in the first three weeks. USC-Notre Dame and Notre Dame-Stanford were given grandfather status. There are no plans for exceptions going forward, Scott said.
If Oklahoma joins the Pac-12 and Texas doesn’t, their traditional matchup at the State Fair could end. If both are in the Pac-12, Scott indicated no problems for an October game.

WTF!! He would give USC-Notre Dame this exemption but not for an OU-Texas game??? Notre Dame-Stanford?????? I guess Notre Dame carries a mighty big stick. Now I KNOW he is using this as leverage to get Texas in the conference, but he really has a lot of nerve.

I was going to post to this subject earlier, just ran out of time (and energy).

I read that too. That the PAC wanted Oct and Nov dates solely for conf games. That would end the RRS rivalry on the spot. Reasons are...

1-TEXAS isn't going anywhere w/o the LHN giving UT a HUGE chunk of $, be it 350 mill, or half that amount. We earned it. We made an investment when others weren't interested, we want our ROI. Period. There c/b a deal of sorts sharing some proceeds with conf members, but with what UT went thru to get it off the ground, and get a guaranteed 300 mill in return for our efforts, don't expect UT to roll over and bark like a dog so Utah or Arizona can pilfer our profits. So>>>> UT going to the PAC wasn't going to happen, which leads to #2 below

2-The RRS would have to be moved to Septmeber. That won't work. The fair starts in October. There's NO atmosphere @ the Fair and Cotton Bowl in Sept. Which leads to #3 below

3-Move it to Jerry World? Everyone I know say the joint sucks for college games. It doesn't offer the atmosphere the FAIR and the Cotton Bowl does. Not even close.

4- Home and home series? Been down that road before in talks, cooler heads prevailed. What makes the TEXAS-0U game unique is the setting more than anything. Making it another OU-Neb or UT-anm would lessen the rivalry & pageantry of it all (also note....neither OU-Neb and UT-A&M will be played after this season....those so called traditional rivalries couldn't stand the test of time - fact - the games COULD be continued if desired, but they're not)

5- IMO, you dodged a bullet. Going to the PAC w/o TEXAS would have really put a dent in recruiting for OU since the rivalry would end on the spot. Not "kill" your recruiting, but severely damage what's made ou football what it is --- the best Texas kids money can buy (sorry, couldn't help myself!). While I have my own comments on the matter, I saw the below comments on the issue on hornfans, pasting it here. I think it's honest and accurate & leaves out emotions.....The thread was about the impact of 0u and UT splitting due to a possible shift in conferences

I think the arguments related to travel distance, number of games close, etc. is a factor. But the real effect of Texas-OU is the pageantry of the even on young kids -- long before they start using criteria like the above to decide where to go to school.

I know too many Texas born friends who are Pittsburgh Steeler fans. Why? Because they saw the heralded Pittsburgh - Dallas games of LONG ago.

That same effect gives OU inroads to a handful of the TOP talent in Texas each year. I contend that should Texas-OU go away, that emotional inroads by OU will dry up as well.

That isn't to say they won't cull talent at a clip that exceeds Nebraska, Missouri, and a handful of other schools; but they no longer get the Adrian Petersons any more. That loss alone cost Texas a game or two, and maybe a title.

If OU ever hit a funk like the Blake era again, without Texas-OU it might never recover and end up going the way of Arkansas (or Nebraska -- jury is still out if their dynasty days are over or not).

[Robert Goren]

I find it interesting that someone from Texas is concerned about Oklahoma ability to recruit in Texas. Just saying.

[maddog42]

Much of my previous post has been wrought meaningless with this PAC 10 announcement not to expand. Maybe the OU-Texas game was a deal breaker. Who Knows?
What would cause Scott to make the above statements and then abruptly change course? Someone; Either OU or Texas nixed this deal.

Barry Tramel Oklahoman writes:
The reference to "culture of equality" appears to be a shot at Texas which was loath to compromise on its Longhorn Network....
Scott failed to muster support from his presidents to get the Oklahoma schools admitted.....
A source from a Big 12 school said "we'd have to have an interim commisioner to keep OU in the league "(Big 12).
The other reform the Sooners sought was concessions fron Texas and ESPN on the Longhorn Network. The UT/ESPN partnership angered big 12 members on 2 counts: 1 ESPN reached an agreement with Fox Sports to move a Conference game to the Longhorn Network; and 2 The Longhorn Network announced it would show high school highlights even after the conference voted to keep televised high school games off school branded networks.
The source said conference expansion is not a major issue, that while the Big 12 likely needs to expand to 10 or 12 schools, the reforms are a much higher priority....


Now for a translation:
The Big 12 is fed up with Texas and Beebe.
Another part of the article mentioned that Beebe wanted to please Texas, thinking this would keep the Big 12 together.OU wants Beebe out.
I could not find a link for this article,but it is in todays Oklahoman.

[maddog42]

dog,

I enjoyed reading your posts above. Agreed with most of it all.

Here's what I read into the PAC turning down the 4 b12 programs when I read it at 9pm.....
PAC wasn't going to take in the LHN, plain and simple. They likely set Boren aside and asked him to "convince" UT to ditch the LHN, which of course wasn't going to happen. When it was clear the LHN isn't going away, the PAC not only turned us away, but 0u and oSu as well.

WTF? "Dear OU. Bring me TEXAS, or go away"....was that the arrangement? If so, they can enjoy Sacramento State beating up on Oregon State all they like. Screw em.

btw, THE $EC does allow programs to keep their tier 3 deals. UF has the Sunshine Network. Vandy and Ole Miss don't bitch and complain, not sure why the b12 members bitch about the LHN (esp since we invested MILLIONS in the LHN prior to Espn's involvement).

So....maybe the $EC is where TEXAS eventually winds up. If that happens, is it goodbye to the TEXAS-OU series afterall? The SEC isn't going to be interested in taking in oSu. You guys would need to find a way to ditch lil brother to get in (no doubt the SEC would welcome OU asap, even if the PAC didn't).

The Sunshine Network is not a BRANDED network like LHN. Big difference.I can't believe you would try to get that one by me Elk.
By the way, I read somewhere that LHN was almost a turnkey deal with Texas doing very little. ESPN carried the load.

[ElKabong]

Barry Tramel Oklahoman writes:
The reference to "culture of equality" appears to be a shot at Texas which was loath to compromise on its Longhorn Network....
Scott failed to muster support from his presidents to get the Oklahoma schools admitted.....
A source from a Big 12 school said "we'd have to have an interim commisioner to keep OU in the league "(Big 12).
The other reform the Sooners sought was concessions fron Texas and ESPN on the Longhorn Network. The UT/ESPN partnership angered big 12 members on 2 counts: 1 ESPN reached an agreement with Fox Sports to move a Conference game to the Longhorn Network; and 2 The Longhorn Network announced it would show high school highlights even after the conference voted to keep televised high school games off school branded networks.
The source said conference expansion is not a major issue, that while the Big 12 likely needs to expand to 10 or 12 schools, the reforms are a much higher priority....

.

Notice anything about Trammel's piece that stands out? The quotes are anonymous. I'll pass on this one, a lot of Chip Brown-esque atricles with anonymous quotes are making their way to print these days.

Boren said he wouldn't sit idly by. No one is nailing him to any wall here, he's free to do what he wants. To be honest a lot of people are tired of the "if I don't get what I want, I'm going to leave" act. If you don't like you're place in the current situation, find a conference that'll take you & go. The PAC told 0u 'No, if you can't bring UT with you, we're not interested in bringing 0u in', LOL. Find a conference that'll accept you & go if that's the route you want.

No one is stopping 0u from leaving (other than the PAC of course). Go, if that's what 0u wants to do. End the drama already.

Look, yOU're going to cry any way this shakes out....PAC already told us (UT, OU) how the schedule was going to shake out & we would get the shaft. USC and Stanford had their ND scheduled games grandfathered in. USC and Stanford had one set of rules apply for them, TEXAS and 0u had have yet another set of rules for them altogether. Every conference is the same, dog. Stronger members are going to employ their will on weaker or less assertive members. This isn't new, nor is it contained to college athletics.

There's two ways to approach this....Either become active and fight for what you want, or cry and complain. TEXAS has chosen their path, so has 0u.

[ElKabong]

dog,

here's what 0u and anm were pitching a fit over. Behold, the evil LHN! :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38xUq0bg-Oo&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2ew95K3xlQ&feature=player_embedded


To be honest, THIS is exactly what I've been wtg for. Fwd to the 2:40 mark if you don't like listening to Mack. Good cov'g on practices and a lot of football talk. Given a choice of (A) staying in the b12 to keep this LHN or (b) give it up to play in the PAC, I'll keep the LHN. EASY choice!

Me likey! After seeing 4 such clips like this has me thinking Dodds and Powers made the right choice. Now I know why UT fans that have had this the past week were giddy.

This is going to be greatness for baseball too. I'm sure our hoops fans feel the same.

[maddog42]

Notice anything about Trammel's piece that stands out? The quotes are anonymous. I'll pass on this one, a lot of Chip Brown-esque atricles with anonymous quotes are making their way to print these days.

Boren said he wouldn't sit idly by. No one is nailing him to any wall here, he's free to do what he wants. To be honest a lot of people are tired of the "if I don't get what I want, I'm going to leave" act. If you don't like you're place in the current situation, find a conference that'll take you & go. The PAC told 0u 'No, if you can't bring UT with you, we're not interested in bringing 0u in', LOL. Find a conference that'll accept you & go if that's the route you want.

No one is stopping 0u from leaving (other than the PAC of course). Go, if that's what 0u wants to do. End the drama already.

Look, yOU're going to cry any way this shakes out....PAC already told us (UT, OU) how the schedule was going to shake out & we would get the shaft. USC and Stanford had their ND scheduled games grandfathered in. USC and Stanford had one set of rules apply for them, TEXAS and 0u had have yet another set of rules for them altogether. Every conference is the same, dog. Stronger members are going to employ their will on weaker or less assertive members. This isn't new, nor is it contained to college athletics.

There's two ways to approach this....Either become active and fight for what you want, or cry and complain. TEXAS has chosen their path, so has 0u.



Elk I notice that you didn't try to deny any of the Tramel article. You basically said: "Yes we are selfish bullys that always get out our way. We don't really care about the Big 12 or anybody." Well there is one way you won't get your way: ON THE FOOTBALL FIELD!!! How could Texa$ with all its Money, recruiting and political power be so pathetic last year in football? Losing all those games and most of them at Home? Only one real explanation. Terrible coaching and spoiled recruits. Stoops looks to be in the driver seat for a while. I will take comfort in that. I have been trying to remember a time when
a program had so many TOP 5 recruiting classes and had a losing record. Enlighten me on this. Texas looks better this year and I am glad. That was embarassing for the Big 12. 8 wins seems about right for Texas.
Now this Beebe thing seems to be coming to a head.
I didn't even get to some of the best part of the Tramel article:

The source said Big 12 presidents view Beebe as a commissioner serving only one school, Texas. They lay Nebraska's departure in June 2010 at the feet of Beebe.
Texas A&M officials apparently believe that Beebe was part of the problem.
"The perception is he answers to only one school (Texas)," the source said.
My take on this:
Article after article appearing in newspapers from Texas to Missouri and Nebraska are putting the blame on Texa$. The dislike for Texa$ is growing to almost SEC proportions. Beebe will probably be fired any day. The problem that OU has is that the schools who most opposed Texa$ are leaving or have left. This is getting to be a PR nightmare for TU. The main thing saving TU is ESPN. They don't want Texa$ appearing in a negative light, but the newpapers and other media are running with it.

[Robert Goren]

Money was the reason that Nebraska left the Big 12. Texas was the catalyst that made it happen. The dislike of Texas by the Nebraska fan base can not be under estimated. The idea of not getting screw by Texas over and over again made the selling of the move to the Big 10 to the fans even though many will miss the games with Oklahoma, the Kansas schools and Mizzou.

[ElKabong]

Money was the reason that Nebraska left the Big 12. Texas was the catalyst that made it happen. The dislike of Texas by the Nebraska fan base can not be under estimated. The idea of not getting screw by Texas over and over again made the selling of the move to the Big 10 to the fans even though many will miss the games with Oklahoma, the Kansas schools and Mizzou.

OK, detail the reasons for TEXAS pissing off NU. No generalizations. Detail them, we'll go over each one individually.

[ElKabong]

Elk I notice that you didn't try to deny any of the Tramel article. You basically said: "Yes we are selfish bullys that always get out our way. We don't really care about the Big 12 or anybody." Well there is one way you won't get your way: ON THE FOOTBALL FIELD!!! How could Texa$ with all its Money, recruiting and political power be so pathetic last year in football? Losing all those games and most of them at Home? Only one real explanation. Terrible coaching and spoiled recruits. Stoops looks to be in the driver seat for a while. I will take comfort in that. I have been trying to remember a time when
a program had so many TOP 5 recruiting classes and had a losing record. Enlighten me on this. Texas looks better this year and I am glad. That was embarassing for the Big 12. 8 wins seems about right for Texas.
Now this Beebe thing seems to be coming to a head.
I didn't even get to some of the best part of the Tramel article:

The source said Big 12 presidents view Beebe as a commissioner serving only one school, Texas. They lay Nebraska's departure in June 2010 at the feet of Beebe.
Texas A&M officials apparently believe that Beebe was part of the problem.
"The perception is he answers to only one school (Texas)," the source said.
My take on this:
Article after article appearing in newspapers from Texas to Missouri and Nebraska are putting the blame on Texa$. The dislike for Texa$ is growing to almost SEC proportions. Beebe will probably be fired any day. The problem that OU has is that the schools who most opposed Texa$ are leaving or have left. This is getting to be a PR nightmare for TU. The main thing saving TU is ESPN. They don't want Texa$ appearing in a negative light, but the newpapers and other media are running with it.

I don't have to deny the article. No quotes are attributable to anyone. It's gossip.

Looking at the rest of your post it's clear this all emotional on your part. You rely on other's emotions to drive your thought process. While I don't know any OU alums with that particular little problem, I do know plenty of 0u fans that do.

Personally I don't care about PR. Apparently you use this as crutch, kind of like a scorned girlfriend after a break up. My stance on this is, if you think OU has a chance to leave for greener pastures, THEN GO. Take your purse and walk out the door.

Unfortunately the PAC told you to go back to where you came from if you couldn't convince UT to come with you. Pity. You should have begged b/c UT is going to split the joint after a few years and everybody knows it. The funny part (to me) is that you'll cry then too. We aren't taking 0U anywhere....Our opportunity for an improved future isn't tied to you. Otoh, the PAC made it clear that yours is tied to us whether you like it or not.

Good luck!

p.s...this is 0u's year, 2012 and 2013 is ours as far as the series goes. You guys better not choke on this next TEXAS-OU game, if you do, it's going to be a very difficult split for yOU guys :)

[Rapid Grey]

ElKabong,
Any idea where the Big 12 goes from here expansion wise?

Rumors are they are looking at TCU, BYU and possibly Louisville and West Virginia from the Big East.

[ElKabong]

RG,

Sure wish I knew, but I don't.

Something that has to go thru the minds of TCU, BYU, AFA et al officials: How long before Oklahoma bolts for the SEC? (doubtful, but possible)... Mizzou? They've made it known they'd like to get out. UT, it's a matter of time before they go to the B1G. I can see a possibility (not probability mind you) of the LHN making it lucrative for them to go Indy for football & be a conf member elsewhere for the other sports.

TCU wants in, for sure. Geographically it makes sense for them. The others, I don't know how they look at this conference to be honest.

JMHO, I think the LHN will shake things up on a national scale, and not just for UT when it comes to realignment and such. I saw some replays of LHN shows (not served where I am at the moment), it isn't hard to see how ESPN can make this a huge impact on programs like Mich, tOSU, USC, etc.

Just my opinion again...if I'm Espn, and look at the quality of the production and product, I'm thinking "this is great but it's a regional network at best. People in L.A. or Philly won't care too much for that content". That's when you think ESPN can toss 15 mill a year at programs scattered around & make a fortune at it.

example, The following programs w/h their own Network for "national coverage".
USC
TEXAS
Kansas (basketball) Nebraska (football) shared network
Michigan
tOSU
Penn State
Florida
Bama
NoCarolina

The smaller markets won't get 15 mill like UT is going to pull, but still 8-12 mill goes a long way.

My point (sorry for the length of post) is, with this model you'll see 2 significant things.
One, the "we have to ensure equal revenues for each conference member" nonsense will vanish in 18-24 months. Bama, UNC, USC et al will demand this platform once they see what ESPN and UT are doing. Makes no sense for UT to do this and no one else gets in on it.
Two, it will shift UT somewhere else most likely. BIG, or Indy or wherever. UNC would be a rich target if they wanted to move. The whole conference outlook would change very fast.

Eventually these networks will have to share some proceeds w/ the conferences, but right now conf's are asking for equal revenue sharing. For a network like this, a program would be crazy to do that. But sharing some would help ease some tensions.

sorry for the long post, but things are going to change a lot in the next 2-3 yrs regardless of contracts signed for exit fees and such. A&m just proved these contracts aren't worth the paper they're written on

[cj]

Texas has the money, they will always be the boss in this area. Maybe someday it will translate to success in the only two sports people care about, football and men's basketball.

They have one national championship in 40 years in football. They have never been a serious contender in basketball. They do have a great swimming and diving program though.

[Rapid Grey]

RG,

Sure wish I knew, but I don't.

Something that has to go thru the minds of TCU, BYU, AFA et al officials: How long before Oklahoma bolts for the SEC? (doubtful, but possible)... Mizzou? They've made it known they'd like to get out. UT, it's a matter of time before they go to the B1G. I can see a possibility (not probability mind you) of the LHN making it lucrative for them to go Indy for football & be a conf member elsewhere for the other sports.

TCU wants in, for sure. Geographically it makes sense for them. The others, I don't know how they look at this conference to be honest.

JMHO, I think the LHN will shake things up on a national scale, and not just for UT when it comes to realignment and such. I saw some replays of LHN shows (not served where I am at the moment), it isn't hard to see how ESPN can make this a huge impact on programs like Mich, tOSU, USC, etc.

Just my opinion again...if I'm Espn, and look at the quality of the production and product, I'm thinking "this is great but it's a regional network at best. People in L.A. or Philly won't care too much for that content". That's when you think ESPN can toss 15 mill a year at programs scattered around & make a fortune at it.

example, The following programs w/h their own Network for "national coverage".
USC
TEXAS
Kansas (basketball) Nebraska (football) shared network
Michigan
tOSU
Penn State
Florida
Bama
NoCarolina

The smaller markets won't get 15 mill like UT is going to pull, but still 8-12 mill goes a long way.

My point (sorry for the length of post) is, with this model you'll see 2 significant things.
One, the "we have to ensure equal revenues for each conference member" nonsense will vanish in 18-24 months. Bama, UNC, USC et al will demand this platform once they see what ESPN and UT are doing. Makes no sense for UT to do this and no one else gets in on it.
Two, it will shift UT somewhere else most likely. BIG, or Indy or wherever. UNC would be a rich target if they wanted to move. The whole conference outlook would change very fast.

Eventually these networks will have to share some proceeds w/ the conferences, but right now conf's are asking for equal revenue sharing. For a network like this, a program would be crazy to do that. But sharing some would help ease some tensions.

sorry for the long post, but things are going to change a lot in the next 2-3 yrs regardless of contracts signed for exit fees and such. A&m just proved these contracts aren't worth the paper they're written on

Thanks for your post Elk,

Obviously the jury is still out on TLN. ESPN picked the right school for their initial project and with a 30 year contract they certainly are confident. If they are successful then the schools you mentioned could shortly follow suit, but I don't see it working in some of the those markets. Just can't see people in Alabama wanting a cable channel to watch the Tide play baseball or basketball, let alone their non-revenue generating sports.

Guess I'm on the side of following the mold of the Big 10 network is where college athletics is headed, at least initially. Just hate that this is what has become of college athletics where the number of TV sets in your market matters more than what your program does on the playing field.

[ElKabong]

Texas has the money, they will always be the boss in this area. Maybe someday it will translate to success in the only two sports people care about, football and men's basketball.

They have one national championship in 40 years in football. They have never been a serious contender in basketball. They do have a great swimming and diving program though.

Never a serious contender in basketball :) Final Four in 2003. During a 4-5 yr period in that time UT was one of 2 programs to go to the sweet 16 each of those years. UNC or Duke was the other.

Football. We won 10 games in 9 of the 10 years of the past decade. How many other programs did that?

In my lifetime we've won 4 national championships. I think "someday" is here. It's "been here" as long as I've been alive.

TEXAS is 2nd only to Michigan in total wins, all time. People your age or under seem to come up with "yeah that was leather helmet day age". Who cares what a particular generation thinks? My parents generation had as much fun seeing UT do well as I do now. The TEXAS -ou game was far more fierce in the stands and streets of downtown Dallas then as it is today..The rivalry isn't near as intense today as it was when I was growing up...The love of football has been going on a long time.

Four BCS bowl games in the past decade, 3 wins. Tell me how many programs had more than 3 BCS bowl wins. :jump:

No success in football or basketball. :D

[ElKabong]

Thanks for your post Elk,

Obviously the jury is still out on TLN. ESPN picked the right school for their initial project and with a 30 year contract they certainly are confident. If they are successful then the schools you mentioned could shortly follow suit, but I don't see it working in some of the those markets. Just can't see people in Alabama wanting a cable channel to watch the Tide play baseball or basketball, let alone their non-revenue generating sports.

Guess I'm on the side of following the mold of the Big 10 network is where college athletics is headed, at least initially. Just hate that this is what has become of college athletics where the number of TV sets in your market matters more than what your program does on the playing field.

Thanks RG, I respect your thoughts and opinions.

Actually I do know 2 Bama fans here in DFW that would give a left nut for what I've seen on the LHN (for Bama practices, pregame and postgame content that I've seen re:UT Football). I know this sounds foreign, but a lot of UT fans and alums my age will dig it for baseball as much as football. Same for basketball fans. I know 0u alums that would like this as well.

It's not just games. It's a deeper look into practices and x's and o's than what I've ever seen on espn. Not for the casual fan although some of the content is directed at that group....but for an in depth look at a program, training / practice techniques / etc I've not seen anything like it

I can see Saban watching this thing after the season and tell his AD and staff "I have to have this. WTF are we waiting for, it's a great tool". He won't be the only one. It definitely locks in a fan of the program moreso than reading a mssg board or watching espn can.

[cj]

Never a serious contender in basketball :) Final Four in 2003. During a 4-5 yr period in that time UT was one of 2 programs to go to the sweet 16 each of those years. UNC or Duke was the other.

Football. We won 10 games in 9 of the 10 years of the past decade. How many other programs did that?

In my lifetime we've won 4 national championships. I think "someday" is here. It's "been here" as long as I've been alive.

TEXAS is 2nd only to Michigan in total wins, all time. People your age or under seem to come up with "yeah that was leather helmet day age". Who cares what a particular generation thinks? My parents generation had as much fun seeing UT do well as I do now. The TEXAS -ou game was far more fierce in the stands and streets of downtown Dallas then as it is today..The rivalry isn't near as intense today as it was when I was growing up...The love of football has been going on a long time.

Four BCS bowl games in the past decade, 3 wins. Tell me how many programs had more than 3 BCS bowl wins. :jump:

No success in football or basketball. :D

I know the history, Texas has a long, storied one. However, it hasn't been very good lately. I should hope they win a lot of games. They are in a hotbed of high school football and have a ton of money. However, it hasn't been converted to titles. One in 40 years, and that took a Vince Young miracle. They are solid, probably always will be, but they should be more. They shouldn't play second fiddle on the field to Oklahoma in the Big 12, but they have since its inception and probably will as long as Stoops are Mack Brown are in charge.

I did forget about 2003 in basketball, but I never really thought they could win it all. Going to the Sweet 16 does not make one a title contender. Again, they are pretty good, but they have woefully underachieved on the court. I'm not sure how anyone could deny that.

[ElKabong]

I know the history, Texas has a long, storied one. However, it hasn't been very good lately. I should hope they win a lot of games. They are in a hotbed of high school football and have a ton of money. However, it hasn't been converted to titles. One in 40 years, and that took a Vince Young miracle. They are solid, probably always will be, but they should be more. They shouldn't play second fiddle on the field to Oklahoma in the Big 12, but they have since its inception and probably will as long as Stoops are Mack Brown are in charge.

I did forget about 2003 in basketball, but I never really thought they could win it all. Going to the Sweet 16 does not make one a title contender. Again, they are pretty good, but they have woefully underachieved on the court. I'm not sure how anyone could deny that.

Hard to tell if you're serious here, or jesting.

If serious, once again, TEXAS won ten games in nine seasons last decade. No one had ever done that before. We won the last MNC that wasn't an $EC team..Etc, etc.....We're 3-0 right now. If that won't impress, too bad.

[cj]

Hard to tell if you're serious here, or jesting.

If serious, once again, TEXAS won ten games in nine seasons last decade. No one had ever done that before. We won the last MNC that wasn't an $EC team..Etc, etc.....We're 3-0 right now. If that won't impress, too bad.

Anything can be spun. Of course no one had ever done it before. Everyone used to play 12 games or less, now it can be 14. They are good, no doubt. If I were a fan I would be disappointed at the lack of national titles, that is all I'm saying. Of course I mean football, not basketball. There are no serious expectations for anyone in the Big 12 outside of Lawrence.

[ElKabong]

Nice try, but EVERYONE has 12 regular season games now. No need for your spin, we accomplished it. No one else did.

And I'm glad TEXAS did it. If someone else did, I'd acknowledge the consistent excellence of that program. To each their own.

[ElKabong]

OK, detail the reasons for TEXAS pissing off NU. No generalizations. Detail them, we'll go over each one individually.

Bumpitty bump, there Robert. Please detail the reasons. Don't be shy, but bring some facts.

[cj]

Nice try, but EVERYONE has 12 regular season games now. No need for your spin, we accomplished it. No one else did.

And I'm glad TEXAS did it. If someone else did, I'd acknowledge the consistent excellence of that program. To each their own.

Yes, I know that of course. I'm just saying of course it wasn't something that could be done before very recent times. It was also something made easier by an extremely weak nonconference schedule. I'd be disappointed that despite that, they were not even the best team in the conference.

Consistency is great, championships are better. That is what I would want. I wouldn't trade Maryland's NCAA basketball championship to change the last 5 mediocre years to sweet sixteens, but that is just my preference...yours may vary.

[ElKabong]

i'm happy for your Terps 2002 nat'l championship..... I'm happy with TEXAS' 2005 national championship. Moving on.

[ElKabong]

Bumpitty bump, there Robert. Please detail the reasons. Don't be shy, but bring some facts.

Paging Robert Goren......

One last try, give it your best shot. Detail the reasons NU thinks they were screwed by TEXAS. Give details, not generalizations.

[cj]

Paging Robert Goren......

One last try, give it your best shot. Detail the reasons NU thinks they were screwed by TEXAS. Give details, not generalizations.

I thought you were moving on...

[ElKabong]

Moving on from the Maryland hoops topic. I could care less if they won a title 9-10 yrs ago. I feel good for you that it happened, but it's no concern of mine. If they accomplished something special like UT did (BCS record, only program to win ten games in 9 yrs of a decade, etc) then I'd also acknowledge that accomplishment.

What is of concern, and equally important in that it's pertaining to the thread topic, is all the UT bashing about how we broke up the b12 and no one can put up a point of fact to such. Just emotional rants. I want facts. Robert made a comment, provided no fact.

For example....Osbornes first complaint was that TEXAS demanded PQ's be done away with or curtailed severely for us to join the b8/12...Fact, NU was outvoted on the subject 11-1. Yet he was moaning about how TEXAS got it's way and jobbed him and NU over.... 11-1 isn't jobbing anyone over.

So let's let Robert answer, shall we? I'm legitimately interested in his examples if he indeed has some.

[maddog42]

Hard to tell if you're serious here, or jesting.

If serious, once again, TEXAS won ten games in nine seasons last decade. No one had ever done that before. We won the last MNC that wasn't an $EC team..Etc, etc.....We're 3-0 right now. If that won't impress, too bad.

During that Decade of Dominance by Texas, 2010 thru 2000 Ou won 7 Big 12 championships. How many did Texas win in that period? 2!2! Are you kidding me?
How is that possible to win so many games and only win 2 Big 12 titles? Chokers.
I could list at least 4 NCAA records that OU broke in that period. But I would be beating a dead Longhorn/Horse.

[ElKabong]

During that Decade of Dominance by Texas, 2010 thru 2000 Ou won 7 Big 12 championships. How many did Texas win in that period? 2!2! Are you kidding me?
How is that possible to win so many games and only win 2 Big 12 titles? Chokers.
I could list at least 4 NCAA records that OU broke in that period. But I would be beating a dead Longhorn/Horse.


BEVO envy. It can be a sad disease, dog. Take two Colt McCoy wins over your sooners (OOPS! He had 3 wins over 0u!) and call me in the morning....

[ElKabong]

Wow, speaking of 0u.....maybe it's not TEXAS' fault afterall. At least according to Friday's WaPo..... The Washington Post is, in effect, calling 0u crybabies. I guess that pic in the post above is appropriate! :)


The NCAA v the Oklahoma Board of Regents

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/ncaa-lost-its-teeth-in-court-in-1984-and-no-ones-been-in-charge-since/2011/09/23/gIQAVDyoqK_story.html

It’s a rich irony that Oklahoma is sweating the chaos caused by TV money, given that it set the chaos in motion in the first place. In 1984, Oklahoma, joined by Georgia, sought to break NCAA control over college football by suing all the way to the highest court for the right to negotiate its own TV deals, and won.

Citing restraint of trade, the court stripped the NCAA of much of its centralized power. A quarter-century later, the Big 12 has been weakened, the entire college football structure destabilized, and Oklahoma is threatened because Texas, with its powerful Longhorn Network deal, is acting so rapaciously, running “roughshod” and making its own rules. Well, where do you think Texas got the idea? It’s pretty entertaining that Oklahoma, which asked for this landscape, is crying for some sort of protection from it.

[maddog42]

This article is by Sally Jenkins:
A native of Texas, Jenkins graduated from Stanford and lives in New York City...

From Texas, think she might be prejudiced?

[cj]

During that Decade of Dominance by Texas, 2010 thru 2000 Ou won 7 Big 12 championships. How many did Texas win in that period? 2!2! Are you kidding me?
How is that possible to win so many games and only win 2 Big 12 titles? Chokers.
I could list at least 4 NCAA records that OU broke in that period. But I would be beating a dead Longhorn/Horse.

There is an easy answer to that...cupcake out of conference schedule.

[ElKabong]

This article is by Sally Jenkins:
A native of Texas, Jenkins graduated from Stanford and lives in New York City...

From Texas, think she might be prejudiced?

Nah, not when she provides facts in her article. You do know "facts" don't you ;)

p.s. I didn't know Stanford grads living in NYC were Longhorn biased...Black helicopters, 8 o'clock!!

[maddog42]

Nah, not when she provides facts in her article. You do know "facts" don't you ;)

p.s. I didn't know Stanford grads living in NYC were Longhorn biased...Black helicopters, 8 o'clock!!
FACT: No other major conference allows BRANDED Networks. This was not mentioned in the article.
Fact:
She didn't mention that the first game that was sold to ESPN by Georgia was for$1500 per school. This was not mentioned in the article.
Shw didn't mention that the A&M departure was caused mainly by LHN. Herbstreit mentioned this on ESPN .
Fact: For the present Texas is the only school that is in a BCS conference and has its own network.

http://www.orangeandwhite.com/news/2011/jul/24/lucrative-television-contracts-turn-college-footba/

My grandson could have written a better article.

[PhantomOnTour]

After the dust settles btw Maddog and Elkabong what is going to happen to Texas and Oklahoma? Better find a conference soon.
I think they wind up right where they started.

[ElKabong]

FACT: No other major conference allows BRANDED Networks. This was not mentioned in the article.
Fact:
She didn't mention that the first game that was sold to ESPN by Georgia was for$1500 per school. This was not mentioned in the article.
Shw didn't mention that the A&M departure was caused mainly by LHN. Herbstreit mentioned this on ESPN .
Fact: For the present Texas is the only school that is in a BCS conference and has its own network.

http://www.orangeandwhite.com/news/2011/jul/24/lucrative-television-contracts-turn-college-footba/

My grandson could have written a better article.


Ahem....BYU has had their own Network for years (and, do read the next 2 sentences carefully), they were in the MWC and no one had a problem with it. Also, please show me any quotes from any b12 President or AD that states BYU is not under consideration for B12 admission b/c of their Network. :lol:

Nobody gives 2 shits about "branded" networks. It's all about $$, ask Florida.

aggy's departure was over money, doggy. The other major reason for leaving might be a bit deep for you so I'll pass on it. Think how oSu suffers b/c of their in-state big brother & you'll get a good idea why it made sense for them to move.

[ElKabong]

After the dust settles btw Maddog and Elkabong what is going to happen to Texas and Oklahoma? Better find a conference soon.
I think they wind up right where they started.

POT,
Not sure where we end up, but I give it 3-5 yrs before we bolt. Likely for the b10 but who really knows? In that timespan a lot of U's will have some sort of network of their own. The barriers for UT now won't be there forever. I give it 3 yrs, the Michigans and Ohio St's of the world are going to want to step out of the 1960s at some point.

Ou - I don't know about. I wish them the best but last week might have been a real dagger to them....I'd be honestly interested in what dog says about this (not that any of us really know)....They honestly should have made a move, a huge move, for the SEC b/c the PAC just told them to get lost if UT didn't come w/ them. They stand to lose the most out of the gamble that UT is going to stay in the b12 & we aren't going to stay in this conference more than 5-6 more years. anm just proved you can tear up a 10+ yr contract on a moments notice and walk to more $$.

If you saw it, Mizzou's Prez / Chanc said openly they wanted into the SEC. He wanted to capitalize on the situation of 0u being in limbo. The SEC needs that 14th program, likely 16....Mizzou doesn't want to be left behind.....adding to this, if oSu REALLY is a package deal with the sooners then the SEC might not add those 2.....Mizzou at 14, then (maybe) add 2 more programs to the east that offer more (tv $) than the Okla duo and suddenly the SEC is set.

UNC, Clemson, GT, VT, Free Shoes would probably to possibly be interested in the SEC if they wanted to expand to 16

To be honest I dunno why the SEC would want to expand to 16....at some point you start seeing the slices of the pie getting smaller ---- which is why OU has to be sweating this out (b/c of their oSu problem). Okla doesn't offer much in the way of tv sets. The SEC will have to see that angle (tv $$) to expand to 16....., am I right? That's why the 15th and 16th programs would likely be dictated by tv sets IMO......The SEC is already top heavy in championship football programs. The focus is likely on the affect on tv contracts.

One thing is for sure, if either UT or 0u moves to the SEC they'll have to do some *serious* cheating to get to the level of Bama, LSU, Fla, etc....When I saw 0u get beat by UF I was of the opinion going in that 0u was maybe the 5th best team in the SEC if they'd played there.....When we played Bama I thought we'd get trounced, they played a far more physical style than we did. I was shocked we hung in as long as we did to be honest.

The year before I thought we c/h beaten FLA given the chance, but the polls left us out...That 08 team was FAR better than our 09 team that played Bama.

to take a swing@ your question.... In 2017 TEXAS goes to the b10...., 0u stays in a midwest conference that will have half the old big8 teams, and BYU, TCU, Houston, Boise, and a couple or more mid-majors.

[maddog42]

Ahem....BYU has had their own Network for years (and, do read the next 2 sentences carefully), they were in the MWC and no one had a problem with it. Also, please show me any quotes from any b12 President or AD that states BYU is not under consideration for B12 admission b/c of their Network. :lol:

Nobody gives 2 shits about "branded" networks. It's all about $$, ask Florida.

aggy's departure was over money, doggy. The other major reason for leaving might be a bit deep for you so I'll pass on it. Think how oSu suffers b/c of their in-state big brother & you'll get a good idea why it made sense for them to move.

I wouldn't call the Mountain West Conference a major conference. A major conference is usually considered an AUTOMATIC QUALIFIER for a BCS bowl.
I think this might be a bit deep for you, so I'll pass on that part. You really are trying to distort the truth here. The PAC 10 forbids branded networks, and so does the Big 10 and SEC. So where does this leave Texas? They are stuck in a lame Big 12 conference, or they can go to a lesser bush league conference or be an independent. The last option would be to drop the LHN or share the money from it. BYU is not an automatic qualifier, and I don't know ANYONE who would call the MWC a major conference.
Elk if no one "gives 2 shits" about branded networks, why are they specifically forbidden by those 3 major conferences I just mentioned ?
Elk you are so brazenly wrong on this board so often, that I am getting to feel sorry for you.

[maddog42]

dog,

here's what 0u and anm were pitching a fit over. Behold, the evil LHN! :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38xUq0bg-Oo&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2ew95K3xlQ&feature=player_embedded


To be honest, THIS is exactly what I've been wtg for. Fwd to the 2:40 mark if you don't like listening to Mack. Good cov'g on practices and a lot of football talk. Given a choice of (A) staying in the b12 to keep this LHN or (b) give it up to play in the PAC, I'll keep the LHN. EASY choice!

Me likey! After seeing 4 such clips like this has me thinking Dodds and Powers made the right choice. Now I know why UT fans that have had this the past week were giddy.

This is going to be greatness for baseball too. I'm sure our hoops fans feel the same.

Elk, they say you should give the Devil his due, and this was funny: Behold, the evil LHN! LOL.In all seriousness I am ENVIOUS of the LHN.

[ElKabong]

I wouldn't call the Mountain West Conference a major conference. A major conference is usually considered an AUTOMATIC QUALIFIER for a BCS bowl.
I think this might be a bit deep for you, so I'll pass on that part. You really are trying to distort the truth here. The PAC 10 forbids branded networks, and so does the Big 10 and SEC. So where does this leave Texas? They are stuck in a lame Big 12 conference, or they can go to a lesser bush league conference or be an independent. The last option would be to drop the LHN or share the money from it. BYU is not an automatic qualifier, and I don't know ANYONE who would call the MWC a major conference.
Elk if no one "gives 2 shits" about branded networks, why are they specifically forbidden by those 3 major conferences I just mentioned ?
Elk you are so brazenly wrong on this board so often, that I am getting to feel sorry for you.

You're getting tiresome, so I'll end it with this....We're moving forward with the LHN. You can continue to cry, doesn't bother me one bit.But do yourself a favor and read the rest of this post

As I've posted before, once Saban and the like see the LHN after the season is over, and what it can do to move a program forward, it's going to be the Norm for top 20 programs with a strong following that have large markets to pipe in.

You're looking backwards (ain't nobody leetin yew dew this network brandin thang!). TEXAS is looking forward, with 30million dollars of help from Espn. The future is what we're looking at. Not the past.

As I've posted before in this thread (you didn't read it, or you don't wish to believe it) this platform will be common in 3-4 yrs time. N0 way Michigan, et al are going to watch TEXAS do this alone. They'll want this, asap....Remember, the conf commish's and officers report to the University Prez's and AD's. They control what direction things move, and the stronger programs won't set idly by with a better deal to be had that happens to move the program ahead

[ElKabong]

Elk, they say you should give the Devil his due, and this was funny: Behold, the evil LHN! LOL.In all seriousness I am ENVIOUS of the LHN.

Don't be envious, be proactive. 0u, anm, KSU all have this coming soon. It's low cost, almost Reality Tv for a sports program, yet it's not scripted. I'm sure 0u will do it right, they have the budget and Castiglione is one of the best AD's around

My generation grew up following UT baseball closer than basketball. Personally I still do. I'm geeked up about being able to see 40+ games on the LHN.

For basketball fans, them too....

Small factoid-- KU brought in over 7million from tier 3 revenues. Most likely hoops games.....UT brought in less than 1 million last season....We had to do something. To leave that cash on the table (while the conf voted down a b12 Network) would be stupid.

All smack aside, I'm happy this thing is up and running....just need to get it distributed....hardly anyone in TX has access to it b/c of Espn's pricing demands (another thread topic - very long.....Espn isn't doing this b/c they likes them some TEXAS football and hoops. It's b/c they no doubt want this regionalized as I've posted before....They have the vision of 10-20 programs having content to sell...TEXAS is just guinea pigs when you get down to it)

[ElKabong]

dog,

one more link....2 minutes into the clip is interesting...damn, QB drills sure have come a LONG way since the early 70s :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgDv86Sn70I&feature=player_embedded

personally i can't get enuff of this stuff.

[maddog42]

Don't be envious, be proactive. 0u, anm, KSU all have this coming soon. It's low cost, almost Reality Tv for a sports program, yet it's not scripted. I'm sure 0u will do it right, they have the budget and Castiglione is one of the best AD's around

My generation grew up following UT baseball closer than basketball. Personally I still do. I'm geeked up about being able to see 40+ games on the LHN.

For basketball fans, them too....

Small factoid-- KU brought in over 7million from tier 3 revenues. Most likely hoops games.....UT brought in less than 1 million last season....We had to do something. To leave that cash on the table (while the conf voted down a b12 Network) would be stupid.

All smack aside, I'm happy this thing is up and running....just need to get it distributed....hardly anyone in TX has access to it b/c of Espn's pricing demands (another thread topic - very long.....Espn isn't doing this b/c they likes them some TEXAS football and hoops. It's b/c they no doubt want this regionalized as I've posted before....They have the vision of 10-20 programs having content to sell...TEXAS is just guinea pigs when you get down to it)
Elk, as a fan I would really like an OU network(it's coming next year), but I don't think it is fair at all. How can teams like Tulsa or Toledo compete with the big boys ? They are having a tough time right now. When the NCAA reduced the number of scholarships 30 years ago, it was good for college football. Bad for OU and Texas, but leveled the field. OU ,Ohio state and Texas used to stockpile talent. The depth at OU was amazing. One year in the 70's all 4 running backs at Ou ended up in the NFL.
This network thing will be great for fans if you are a Texas or OU fan, not if you are a Vanderbilt or a Marshall fan. The rich get richer ...... Just not fair.
I hope you are wrong on this, but you are probably right.

[cj]

I think about now Texas wishes they were in the SEC!

[maddog42]

I think about now Texas wishes they were in the SEC!
The OU defense scored more than the Texas offense. Amazing.

[cj]

The OU defense scored more than the Texas offense. Amazing.

If anyone should be leaving the Big 12, it is Kansas. What an embarrassment they are today. It was tough to top Texas, but they did it in the first half.

[Storm Cadet]

I think most people in the ACC are REAL happy about the crappy Pitt Panthers and Syracuse joining their league. NOT!

Pitt vs Rutgers was one of the most pathetic D1 football games today...both teams STINK! Uconn keeps on losing...the ACC can have that crap football program too! :ThmbDown:

[Dahoss2002]

I think about now Texas wishes they were in the SEC!
Actually Big 12 North

[melman]

Kansas an "embarresment? Tough to top Texas? Let's take a look at Maryland. Run over and I do mean run over by a bowl subdivision team on there HOME field. Final score 38-7. Looked like most Maryland fans were gone by the mid point of the 3rd period. Now that is an embarresment.

[cj]

Kansas an "embarresment? Tough to top Texas? Let's take a look at Maryland. Run over and I do mean run over by a bowl subdivision team on there HOME field. Final score 38-7. Looked like most Maryland fans were gone by the mid point of the 3rd period. Now that is an embarresment.

Maryland would be favored by 20 over Kansas. They are in the first year with a new coach, they have beaten Miami, and nearly beat #13 GT on the road. There are some growing pains, but nobody is bringing in the backup quarterback against Maryland half way through the second quarter.

The Texas part I was just needling elkabong, I'm sure he knows that. Oh, and by the way, Temple is playing at the top level of NCAA football these days, whatever it is called. They are not the old 1-AA which I think is what you were trying to imply. They haven't been for a long time.

[cj]

Actually Big 12 North

There is no such thing.

[melman]

Yes and Temple was a 20 pt underdog to Maryland. And they used two QB's in that pounding of Maryland. You come up with excuses for Maryland who got run over by a bowl subdivision team but use the words "embassement" for Kansas and Texas losing to two very good teams. "Some growing pains" uh?? :lol: Just needling.

[cj]

Yes and Temple was a 20 pt underdog to Maryland. And they used two QB's in that pounding of Maryland. You come up with excuses for Maryland who got run over by a bowl subdivision team but use the words "embassement" for Kansas and Texas losing to two very good teams. "Some growing pains" uh?? :lol: Just needling.

I know, no worries, but Maryland is no Kansas. Kansas gave up 60+ to Georgia Tech, Maryland gave up 21. They are much better.

...and again, Temple is in the top tier, not sure why you call them a bowl subdivision team. They are the same as Maryland, Texas, Kansas, etc. They are just not in a BCS conference, like Boise State or Northern Illinois, but they could go to a BCS game. They are also the same team that was within a minute of knocking off Penn State.

[melman]

I call Temple a bowl subdivision team because that's what they are. A member of the MAC conferance. Shocked you did not know that. I think you make my point that much stronger with your Maryland/Kansas comparison. How can they be down 31-0 at halftime to Temple. At HOME no less. NOW that is AN embarresment. BTW Temple is the same team who LOST to another bowl subdivison team the very next week in Toledo.

[cj]

I call Temple a bowl subdivision team because that's what they are. A member of the MAC conferance. Shocked you did not know that. I think you make my point that much stronger with your Maryland/Kansas comparison. How can they be down 31-0 at halftime to Temple. At HOME no less. NOW that is AN embarresment. BTW Temple is the same team who LOST to another bowl subdivison team the very next week in Toledo.

I know, but so are all the other schools I mentioned. You are mistaken here. All those schools are eligible for the BCS and to win the National Championship.

The old Division 1A is now the Football Bowl Subdivision. That includes all the BCS conferences as well as other like the Mountain West, the WAC, and the MAC.

The old Division 1-AA is now the Football Championship Subdivision. This DOES NOT include the MAC, or Temple.

By the way, I'm not arguing that it was an embarrassment to lose like that at home to Temple, it certainly was. But they still are nowhere near as bad as Kansas. Have you even watched them play a quarter? They can't stop anyone on defense...good and bad teams alike.

[melman]

Yes Bowl Subdivision exactly. And Temple played in a bowl game last year vs UCLA. Look at the Temple schedule and then at the Maryland schedule then tell me they are on the same level.

But let's move on to a topic we can agree on. I have lost a lot of interest in NCAA football as they decide there so called and fake "National Championship" on on the field but with polls. The NCAA should have listened to JoePa about 15 years ago and had an 8 team playoff.

[cj]

Yes Bowl Subdivision exactly. And Temple played in a bowl game last year vs UCLA. Look at the Temple schedule and then at the Maryland schedule then tell me they are on the same level.

But let's move on to a topic we can agree on. I have lost a lot of interest in NCAA football as they decide there so called and fake "National Championship" on on the field but with polls. The NCAA should have listened to JoePa about 15 years ago and had an 8 team playoff.

I certainly agree with that. Being in Oklahoma it is hard to ignore, but I have a hard time being serious about a sport that doesn't decide the title on the field.

[ElKabong]

Dog,

Congrats on the win. This series is about defense and who has the most experienced and talented QB, been that way for years.

The 3 defensive td's are the result of (a) a frosh QB that has to learn (like Landry did in 2009) that you can't hold the ball in the pocket...gotta get rid of that sucker and live for another play. Don't force throws. and (b) Davis not keeping focus -- no way that ball s/h been stripped.

So from a UT fan standpoint, I expect this team to learn from the experience....0u's defense isn't UCLA. There's speed to deal with and you can't learn how to take beat it until you've seen it. I think it was a great learning experience for the offense (passing game)

BEST things I saw for us in terms of growth for 2012-13....
Our O-line >>was pushing the 0u D-line pretty good on running plays. I say this in comparison to last season. Malcolm wasn't getting people in his face until 2 yds across the LOS on north-south design runs. That's step one for us, and we're showing a load of improvement. (0u's defensive speed snuffed any east west type of plays - no surprise there).
D-Line>> shut down the 0u running game. None of those taclkes for 3 yd gains or less were made by LB's or DB's. They were made by our D linemen. Can't tell you how much that pleases me. Bears well for the future.

The obvious matchup advantages for 0u were their (a)pass protection, (b) their pass defense, to go along with (c) the almost flawless play of Landry Jones (every QB can play well with no pressure tho).

When 0u plays LSU or Bama it's going to be rough for the Sooners. JMO, but they have the athletes with experience to (a) jam 0u's receivers at the LOS allowing for the rush to get to Landry b/c of the disruption of timing, and (b) are physical enough to runthe ball on 0u which is in need of some improvement on defending the run (and need a running game of their own).

Congrats again, dog.... it would be great to see you guys go undefeated and play in the MNC game. If you get there I'll pull for 0u (that would be a first :)

[ElKabong]

p.s.... Landry and Broyles....with the protection they're getting from their o-line there's no telling how many records they'll break. These guys are fun to watch

pps....can't wait till next yr when WE have the experienced QB and defense ;)

[maddog42]

Dog,

Congrats on the win. This series is about defense and who has the most experienced and talented QB, been that way for years.

The 3 defensive td's are the result of (a) a frosh QB that has to learn (like Landry did in 2009) that you can't hold the ball in the pocket...gotta get rid of that sucker and live for another play. Don't force throws. and (b) Davis not keeping focus -- no way that ball s/h been stripped.

So from a UT fan standpoint, I expect this team to learn from the experience....0u's defense isn't UCLA. There's speed to deal with and you can't learn how to take beat it until you've seen it. I think it was a great learning experience for the offense (passing game)

BEST things I saw for us in terms of growth for 2012-13....
Our O-line >>was pushing the 0u D-line pretty good on running plays. I say this in comparison to last season. Malcolm wasn't getting people in his face until 2 yds across the LOS on north-south design runs. That's step one for us, and we're showing a load of improvement. (0u's defensive speed snuffed any east west type of plays - no surprise there).
D-Line>> shut down the 0u running game. None of those taclkes for 3 yd gains or less were made by LB's or DB's. They were made by our D linemen. Can't tell you how much that pleases me. Bears well for the future.

The obvious matchup advantages for 0u were their (a)pass protection, (b) their pass defense, to go along with (c) the almost flawless play of Landry Jones (every QB can play well with no pressure tho).

When 0u plays LSU or Bama it's going to be rough for the Sooners. JMO, but they have the athletes with experience to (a) jam 0u's receivers at the LOS allowing for the rush to get to Landry b/c of the disruption of timing, and (b) are physical enough to runthe ball on 0u which is in need of some improvement on defending the run (and need a running game of their own).

Congrats again, dog.... it would be great to see you guys go undefeated and play in the MNC game. If you get there I'll pull for 0u (that would be a first :)
Thanks Elk
I would agree with almost everything you said(Am I really saying this? Quick check for fever.) I think our running game needs to improve, and our D against the run. The top ball carriers for Texas averaged 4.5 per rush. If you take away the 18 yarder by Whittaker, you averaged 3.8 per rush. If you take away the 64 yard run by Whaley we average about 1.5 yards per rush. We both had 22 first downs. So how did the Sooners crush the Longhorns? Over 300 yards passing in the first half .To be fair to our defense, we got ahead so much and blitzed so much that it allows the other team the short gains. They were very opportunistic and stopped the run when they really needed to. The only touchdown they allowed was late in the 3rd when the outcome was no longer in doubt.
Are they Alabama or LSU Quality? Probably not. But damn good. Usually a
MNC contender needs to be a little more physical.
I am a little surprised we called off the Dogs in the 4th. But what goes around comes around and I remember the Blake and Gibbs eras. It is probably 50-50 that we finish the regular season undefeated. We have about a %20 chance of playing for and winning a MNC. You can't ask for much more.

Thanks again Elk.

[ceejay]

I found it interesting how often the Longhorn network was plugged during the game with the basic comments "you need to call your cable provider" to urge them to allow you to purchase it (although I could have misinterpreted it).[ It is hard to imagine significant numbers of people calling to watch this year's Texas-KU game.]

Is the LHN not being carried by most cable providers? If so I guess that ESPN/ABC/Disney will wait for contract renewal in an attempt to strong-arm cable companies to carry. I do not know the lengths & terms of contracts, etc but I cannot believe that a significant flow of funds will start until distribution of the product is widespread in their target market.

[cj]

I found it interesting how often the Longhorn network was plugged during the game with the basic comments "you need to call your cable provider" to urge them to allow you to purchase it (although I could have misinterpreted it).[ It is hard to imagine significant numbers of people calling to watch this year's Texas-KU game.]

Is the LHN not being carried by most cable providers? If so I guess that ESPN/ABC/Disney will wait for contract renewal in an attempt to strong-arm cable companies to carry. I do not know the lengths & terms of contracts, etc but I cannot believe that a significant flow of funds will start until distribution of the product is widespread in their target market.

I think that was geared towards Texas. I can't imagine many other markets are going to want to pay 1 penny for that station.

[ceejay]

In our market I could see people paying that penny to not have it on their box. :lol:

[ElKabong]

ceejay,

Only a small # of carriers have the LHN. I'd say maybe 10-15% covg in Texas - at best.

Time Warner, At&t u-verse, Grande are the only ones carrying it that I'm aware of....right now the pricing is the sticky point. Espn isn't giving in for reasons hashed over before

Like I've said before, ESPN is running the show. Not TEXAS. They have 300 mill of their $ invested that's already slotted for our pocket$....In effect UT could care less how many tv's are available to LHN. They won't earn a penny more if it had 100% covg.

I've posted this before.

It's been conversed and turned upside down on every UT board.

Why people don't understand this is beyond me. (once again...) ESPN is driving the LHN product. Not TEXAS.

The product itself is first rate stuff. UT had to commit to a specific $amount to production and has "professional" help from ESPN. It's a one of a kind product for now, but Bama, Mich etc will all have this within the next 4 yrs.

Espn has been the invisible hand of sorts in ncaa athletics for awhile, their buy in on the LHN kicked it up a few notches. When UT "turned down" PAC's invitation to join b/c we "decided" to keep the LHN, it was Espn's decision. Not ours. Espn will eventually decide where TEXAS joins in realignment, not UT (or any Oregon St or Illinois univ pres via votes)....Money talks.

Always. In any endeavor that is run by cash....The guy with the $ calls the shots.

Espn (abc) is Goldman Sachs of sorts, every Univ program bows to them whether it has to do with kickoff times and dates, or the bowl schedule and structure. You could see this coming since the late 70's, tv $ has been driving the sport at the college level.

[ElKabong]

I found it interesting how often the Longhorn network was plugged during the game with the basic comments "you need to call your cable provider" to urge them to allow you to purchase it (although I could have misinterpreted it).[ It is hard to imagine significant numbers of people calling to watch this year's Texas-KU game.]
.

To reply to this paragraph directly, ESPN and abc are one and the same (disney too, which is touting the LHN). Espn wants more carriers to carry the LHN (thus more $ in Espn's pocket...a return on their investment).

Every B12 ESPN game I've seen this season has promo'd the manure out of the LHN. There'$ a rea$on for it. They want to grow a bigger product thna just the LHN. They want this to go national in a few yrs, featuring the Michigans, tOSU's and Alabama and Florida's.....rabid fan bases in highly populated regions.

The rich get richer. It's not about wins and losses anymore and come to think of it, it has been coming in this manner for quite some time.

I prefer it the old way, but poor folk like me 'don't get no vote'.....