Rough week for Del Mar,handle down over $7,000,000.

[jelly]

Last year handle $60,138,668.

This year $53,083,223


-$7,055,445

[andymays]

The drop in handle is all on the TOC.

[sonnyp]

geez, didn't the "match race" help ?

[macguy]

geez, didn't the "match race" help ?


I tried to watch it, but just lost interest... as a male, it must be my "incredibly short attention span." :rolleyes:

[mannyberrios]

I tried to watch it, but just lost interest... as a male, it must be my "incredibly short attention span." :rolleyes:
:lol: :lol: :lol:

[KingChas]

My first and last bet of the year at Del Mar.
$10 to win and "The Wonder Boy" Pat V loses the irons coming out of the gate.

-$10...........oh well

The End....................... :D

[Stillriledup]

My first and last bet of the year at Del Mar.
$10 to win and "The Wonder Boy" Pat V loses the irons coming out of the gate.

-$10...........oh well

The End....................... :D

P Val has lost irons, bolted or fell off countless horses in the last few weeks. Half a dozen or more of P Val's mounts just mysterously he fell off thehorse, pulled the horse up or lost his irons. I'd say that there's a chance P Val is riding injured, but the racing commission isnt too interested in 'vetting out' jocks to make sure that they're fit to ride.

Caveat Emptor.

[lamboguy]

P Val has lost irons, bolted or fell off countless horses in the last few weeks. Half a dozen or more of P Val's mounts just mysterously he fell off thehorse, pulled the horse up or lost his irons. I'd say that there's a chance P Val is riding injured, but the racing commission isnt too interested in 'vetting out' jocks to make sure that they're fit to ride.

Caveat Emptor.you know as well as i do that PVAL is some type of draw in california, that is why they let him back in to begin with. even at his age he is one tough good rider though.

[jelly]

Over five days of racing, the seaside oval took a 10.2-percent hit on its betting handle over a similar period last year.

When asked on Sunday if he had any explanation for the dip, track CEO Joe Harper just shrugged his shoulders.


Read more: http://www.nctimes.com/sports/equestrian/racing/article_b44fe905-c601-55df-8ed7-9ea2c76e96df.html#ixzz1UddEPkGX

[pondman]

It's the Obama Economy! The cleaning ladies don't have the extra $2.

[andymays]

Over five days of racing, the seaside oval took a 10.2-percent hit on its betting handle over a similar period last year.

When asked on Sunday if he had any explanation for the dip, track CEO Joe Harper just shrugged his shoulders.


Read more: http://www.nctimes.com/sports/equestrian/racing/article_b44fe905-c601-55df-8ed7-9ea2c76e96df.html#ixzz1UddEPkGX

Harper has come out publicly in support of the Customers on several occasions. He asked for a takeout reduction several times but the TOC was willing to throw Del Mar under the bus.

[cj]

Hard to believe that Horse vs Horse betting on Sundays hasn't made up the difference.

[jelly]

Another bad week for Delmar,handle is down over $8,000,000 this week.



Last year $61,032,488.

This week $52,790,308.

-$8,242,180.

[stringmail]

At this rate this is going it will provide CHRB the "argument" to raise the takeout because as handle declines the only sure way to generate revenue will be to increase takeout. :liar:

Everyone knows that as handle declines, the only way to grow is to increase your pricing rather than reduce your expenses. Afterall, if you are having trouble attracting business, why not increase the price of the product to exclude all of your consumers?

More seriously, though, it is a shame that handle is down. I haven't played much other than spot plays. While I enjoy the 2yr old races, I just can't get heavily invested in P4, P5 or P6 when it is a little too much of a dart contest for me.

I wonder if avg field size has improved with the new shipping incentives. If so, I'd hate to think what the handle would be without the low take P5 and the shippers enticing the bettors.

[lamboguy]

del mar is not playing with the same level playing field as other tracks. first of all their races are on synthetic surface so i would love to know the breakdown in loss of handle there between the turf numbers and synthetic. also the rebates one gets from racing at del mar is close to non-existent for 99.9% of the betting public. personally if i want to play the place, which i don't, my rebate level is 1.4% for w-p-s. and 5% for 2 horse tricks, and 6% for 3, 4 or horse tricks.
compare that with penn national, that overlaps with del mar, they are 9% w-p-s, 10.5% for 2 horse tricks, 19% for 3 horse or more tricks. the takeout levels between the 2 places is almost the same for w-p-s and 2 horse tricks. you probably get bigger field sizes in penn national as well. i don't think that penn national is suffering as big a decrease in handle as del mar is too.

but don't get me wrong, racing handles are falling like a rock in most venues that have boring products just like del mar. and some of the decrease in handle in del mar fall into the category of racing as a whole. i doubt if there will be much loss in handle if any this year for saratoga. but they have a much better meet to begin with because they have top horses coming from everywhere to compete. i am not sure that del mar has that same luxury like we do in the east coast. the racing secretary for nyra has taken every step to maintain the highest standards of their racing product. some days he finds it imperitive to card 5 turf races in a 9 race card to insure as many full fields as possible.

[David-LV]

It's just a fact. :bang:

Poly (Garbage) Track = Lower Handle !!!

_________
David-LV

[Horseplayersbet.com]

del mar is not playing with the same level playing field as other tracks. first of all their races are on synthetic....
Woodbine handle is up 12% this year (and most of that is coming from US players), and they are still gutting it out on polytrack.

[lamboguy]

Woodbine handle is up 12% this year (and most of that is coming from US players), and they are still gutting it out on polytrack.
they also have more adw's this year and they have better rebates too

[David-LV]

Woodbine handle is up 12% this year (and most of that is coming from US players), and they are still gutting it out on polytrack.

Handle is up at Woodbine because they added the simulcast market of Las Vegas and the rest of the locations in the United States this year.

I should hope their handle is up, but only 12% after adding the whole simulcast market of the United States is not that impressive.

We will see what it is next year when we are comparing apples to apples.

_________
David-LV

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Handle is up at Woodbine because they added the simulcast market of Las Vegas and the rest of the locations in the United States this year.

I should hope their handle is up, but only 12% after adding the whole simulcast market of the United States is not that impressive.

We will see what it is next year when we are comparing apples to apples.

_________
David-LV
I disagree on a few points. Overall, handle is down around 7% from last year for the industry. Those who began getting Woodbine content, or started getting Woodbine again happened by the end of June last year I think. Not sure about Vegas. So apples to apples comparisons can begin as of July 1.

The 12% increase, relative to the industry decline, and taking into account polytrack naysayers, is pretty impressive to me.

In the past year, they've lowered the takeout on triactors (though 25% is still on the high average side, it is better than 28.3%).

[Some_One]

Handle is up at Woodbine because they added the simulcast market of Las Vegas and the rest of the locations in the United States this year.

I should hope their handle is up, but only 12% after adding the whole simulcast market of the United States is not that impressive.

We will see what it is next year when we are comparing apples to apples.

_________
David-LV

I remember playing Woodbine last year in Vegas

[Some_One]

It's just a fact. :bang:

Poly (Garbage) Track = Lower Handle !!!

_________
David-LV

How much did Santa Anita handle increase last spring?

[Canarsie]

Handle is up at Woodbine because they added the simulcast market of Las Vegas and the rest of the locations in the United States this year.

I should hope their handle is up, but only 12% after adding the whole simulcast market of the United States is not that impressive.

We will see what it is next year when we are comparing apples to apples.

_________
David-LV

I would also like to add you can't get a copy of the DRF without Woodbine in it here in NJ. Whether there is a financial agreement between the two parties I really don't have a clue. But if it's in the form one would guess there is a far better chance of wagering some money there. When I'm at the Meadowlands or Monmouth hardly a soul watches the screen with Woodbine on.

[GatetoWire]

The 8 race cards on Wed, Thur and Fri cannot be helping the handle.

C'mon an 8 race card on a Friday???

[toussaud]

The 8 race cards on Wed, Thur and Fri cannot be helping the handle.

C'mon an 8 race card on a Friday???
hey that's my fav day of the week. the late post, it's usually a stake race on the card... not half bad

but wednesday's cards are almost laughable at this point

[Leparoux]

Keeneland was up in the Spring. So much for the Poly theory.

On-track handle on Keeneland for the 2011 spring meeting totaled $18,473,700, compared to last year’s $17,906,359, up three percent. Average daily on-track wagering on Keeneland was $1,231,580 compared to $1,193,757 in 2010.

All-sources handle, which includes on-track and off-track wagering as well as whole- card simulcasting conducted at Keeneland, totaled $121,013,584 for the 2011 spring meeting compared to $111,371,701 in 2010, marking a nine percent increase. Total wagering averaged $8,067,572 daily versus $7,424,780 last year.

[Igeteven]

The drop in handle is all on the TOC.

No it is not Andy,

It's the stupid betting menu Del Mar has.

The cost of a bet, nothing more, people are playing some where else.

They have no one to blame but themselves for this, If Craig D did what I told him a few months ago, they would not be in this mess.

[carlonr]

No it is not Andy,

It's the stupid betting menu Del Mar has.

The cost of a bet, nothing more, people are playing some where else.

They have no one to blame but themselves for this, If Craig D did what I told him a few months ago, they would not be in this mess.

What did you tell him?

[NTamm1215]

No it is not Andy,

It's the stupid betting menu Del Mar has.

The cost of a bet, nothing more, people are playing some where else.

They have no one to blame but themselves for this, If Craig D did what I told him a few months ago, they would not be in this mess.

It has to do with takeout, not you.

[andymays]

http://www.insidesocal.com/horseracing/2011/08/some-interesting-numbers-at-de.html#comments

Excerpt:

* There was $390,684 in the pick five pool Sunday at Del Mar. This is a bet that carries a low 14 percent takeout. It's also a bet that, according to one representative of the Thoroughbred Owners of California, would never catch on with the bettors. Well, it's now one of the most popular bets on the Southland circuit.

Excerpt:

Del Mar, Hollywood Park and Santa Anita have all asked the TOC to lower takeout on doubles and exactas. Track executives see the writing on the wall. Del Mar might be down in all-sources handle between now and Pacific Classic weekend Aug. 27-28.

Meanwhile, the TOC does nothing.

Sad.

[andymays]

No it is not Andy,

It's the stupid betting menu Del Mar has.

The cost of a bet, nothing more, people are playing some where else.

They have no one to blame but themselves for this, If Craig D did what I told him a few months ago, they would not be in this mess.

They did everything within their power to have a good meet. Just about everything to do with the wagering menu and the takeout rates has to be approved by the TOC.

[Tom]

It's just a fact. :bang:

Poly (Garbage) Track = Lower Handle !!!

_________
David-LV

But the comparison is between last year and this year, both had poly.

[Tom]

My 2 cents - WO is the best betting tack going.
It is now my numero uno track.
Poly is not bad when you have a superintendent who knows what he is doing.

[rwwupl]

From D.R.F., 8-15-11

(Note, Our information indicates the handle is down 6.8%

rw)


http://www.drf.com/news/del-mars-handle-down-6-percent-so-far-season


Excerpt:


DEL MAR, Calif. – All-sources handle at Del Mar is down an average of 6 percent through Sunday compared with same point of the 2010 season, a figure that may be difficult to reverse before the season ends, track president Joe Harper said on Monday.

Del Mar has run 20 days of its 37-day meeting, which runs through Sept. 7.

Handle, including ontrack, offtrack, and account wagering sources has averaged $11,221,976, lower than 2010 average of $11,925,681 at the same point last year. Average ontrack handle is down 6 percent, from $2,220,715 in 2010 to $2,080,664 this year.

Harper said all-sources handle figures are likely to remain close to current levels through the end of the meeting, with improvement dependent on the number of pick six carryovers. Last year, for the entire meeting there were 13 days with pick six carryovers, including a massive triple carryover on Labor Day weekend. Through Sunday, there have been five days with a pick six carryover.

“I’m not sure there is that much you can do for your handle other than good betting races or carryovers,” he said. “I don’t really see a lot of natural increases. We’re going against some pretty big days on Labor Day weekend. Without that, it’s tough.”

The drop in handle has occurred largely in the last two weeks. Through July 31, after the first two weeks of the meeting, all-sources handle was down less than 1 percent.

Harper said the massive swings on the stock market in recent weeks could be a factor in the decline in handle.

“The handle started dropping when that happened,” he said. “I don’t know whether there is any correlation.”

Attendance figures have been more encouraging. Through Sunday, average ontrack attendance was 19,430, a gain of 1.3 percent over 19,180 at the same point in 2010.

Through Sunday, field sizes were essentially equal to last year, with 8.2 runners per races this year compared with 8.17 runners per race at the same point last year.

[David-LV]

My 2 cents - WO is the best betting tack going.
It is now my numero uno track.
Poly is not bad when you have a superintendent who knows what he is doing.

I like their turf racing, their high quality signal and screen info.

Very horse player friendly.

________
David-LV

[toussaud]

I like their turf racing, their high quality signal and screen info.

Very horse player friendly.

________
David-LV
the main track is playing differently from last year, at least to me it seems to be doing so. Maybe I just suck. I am not saying i don't play their main track races but not as many as last year. I do love their turf racing as do you. Hit a grade 2 they had there a few weeks ago on turf at 5 to 1. Forgot who won but it was the 3 horse i remember that.

[Igeteven]

What did you tell him?

1. have the same types of bets that Gulfstream has, and in Kentucky

2. have a super carryover for the 10 cent players.

I warned him, that people want to be a whale also, so what does he do,

he puts in a very stupid horse race and doesn't change a damn thing on the betting menu

People, these people at these 3 major tracks hang around with big wheels,

The little guy is in the grand stand , however, just like the middle class, we can break them or make them

California is off on another planet compare to other tracks, so their handle is in the trash can

[BlueShoe]

California is off on another planet compare to other tracks.
When California expanded their simulcast schedule recently many of us were thrilled, and thought that at last we would be able to wager on entire cards instead of the chopped up ones we had been getting. We thought that now we could bet the early NYRA races, including the early horizontal wagers. Well guess again, the powers that be deemed that it was too much trouble for California fans to arrive at the track or otb site much before 11:00 AM. :rolleyes: Instead we have been given more tracks with more partial cards. With the number of simulcast races allowed still limited, most of us would much rather have complete cards from five or six tracks rather than eight or nine partial tracks. Darned if we know what body or persons determine the schedule, the CHRB, the tracks, the legislature, or? While more races are welcome, California still has not gotten their simulcast schedule right, still behind other states. For an example of what we get, pick a few random days and check the menu.
www.dmtc.com/live/simulcast/ (http://www.dmtc.com/live/simulcast/)

[mannyberrios]

Don't people in California get TVG, express bet, or twin spires? It looks like an ADW is the way to go!

[jelly]

So,you can bet the pick 5 at monmouth but not the early or late pick 4. :bang:


Whenever you talk to the people in charge out there,do they treat you like little children?


At the rate your going you should have full Simulcast (like the rest of the country) in 2037.

[BlueShoe]

Whenever you talk to the people in charge out there,do they treat you like little children?
There have been countless posts affirming that they do just that.

[BlueShoe]

Don't people in California get TVG, express bet, or twin spires? It looks like an ADW is the way to go!
Many of the track and otb site patrons do not even use computers, and very few have ADW accounts, for various reasons. In my case, it is the social security number matter that is the deal breaker. All of the legal sites insist on the customer providing this information. Yours truly will absolutely, positively not give his SS# on any internet website, so matter how secure it is reputed to be, under any circustances, no matter what.

[bigmack]

Yours truly will absolutely, positively not give his SS# on any internet website, so matter how secure it is reputed to be, under any circustances, no matter what.
You're missing a vast amount of betting opportunities and I'd venture to guess not one person here could say their personal information has been compromised from TwinSpires or like sites.

Get LifeLock and climb aboard the ability to bet from home. It's awfully nice.

Your SS # is far less vulnerable than it might have been in the past, irrespective of how protective you are of it.

[BlueShoe]

You're missing a vast amount of betting opportunities and I'd venture to guess not one person here could say their personal information has been compromised from TwinSpires or like sites.

Your SS # is far less vulnerable than it might have been in the past, irrespective of how protective you are of it.
That subject might make a good topic on the ADW or computer forum. One other signup possible option has been considered. At Santa Anita there is an Expressbet, I believe, window. With Oaktree coming up soon, on the next live visit could sign up at the window and fund the new account with cash. No SS# on the web worries, no check worries, and no credit card hassles, etc. Am just as paranoic about credit cards on the web as the SSN bit. Have never bought anything in my life over the WWW.:faint: (http://WWW.:faint:) Guess my computer skills and usage is somewhere around 1995 or so. :D

[duncan04]

That subject might make a good topic on the ADW or computer forum. One other signup possible option has been considered. At Santa Anita there is an Expressbet, I believe, window. With Oaktree coming up soon, on the next live visit could sign up at the window and fund the new account with cash. No SS# on the web worries, no check worries, and no credit card hassles, etc. Am just as paranoic about credit cards on the web as the SSN bit. Have never bought anything in my life over the WWW.:faint: (http://WWW.:faint:) Guess my computer skills and usage is somewhere around 1995 or so. :D

You could do that but then they take that information and put it in a computer data base so it is a moot point!

[affirmedny]

That subject might make a good topic on the ADW or computer forum. One other signup possible option has been considered. At Santa Anita there is an Expressbet, I believe, window. With Oaktree coming up soon, on the next live visit could sign up at the window and fund the new account with cash. No SS# on the web worries, no check worries, and no credit card hassles, etc. Am just as paranoic about credit cards on the web as the SSN bit. Have never bought anything in my life over the WWW.:faint: (http://WWW.:faint:) Guess my computer skills and usage is somewhere around 1995 or so. :D

I think you might be stuck in 1995 as I don't think there's an Oak Tree meet anymore.

[duncan04]

I think you might be stuck in 1995 as I don't think there's an Oak Tree meet anymore.


Santa Anita is doing its best to kill off the Oak Tree meet

[HoofedInTheChest]

My 2 cents - WO is the best betting tack going.
It is now my numero uno track.
Poly is not bad when you have a superintendent who knows what he is doing.

I thought i was the only one who thought that way. I have tried many tracks and usually the betting menu ends up pissing me off at most American tracks. Once you get used to how the Poly track plays out it can be a very lucrative track. I might sound biased because i live in Toronto, but Woodbine cleaned me out for years until i got fed up and started studying the Poly and it's bias...... the best investment i ever made. (Not to mention it has one of the nicest turf courses in North America)
Delmar and other American tracks really need to rethink their betting menu's if they want to turn this mess around. There are some really nice tracks in the U.S. with great jockey colonies and some outstanding horsemen, but when i see $2 minimums on all bets i usually take a exit stage left.......exit stage right even!
I think someone needs to remind these people that a quick nickel is better than a slow dime....... it's really unfortunate, you would think they would look at Churchil and base their model on that, by far the best menu i have ever come across.

[elhelmete]

Delmar and other American tracks really need to rethink their betting menu's if they want to turn this mess around. There are some really nice tracks in the U.S. with great jockey colonies and some outstanding horsemen, but when i see $2 minimums on all bets i usually take a exit stage left.......exit stage right even!
I think someone needs to remind these people that a quick nickel is better than a slow dime....... it's really unfortunate, you would think they would look at Churchil and base their model on that, by far the best menu i have ever come across.

There are $1 base bets for verticals and the new 50-cent P5 at Del Mar.

Woodbine doesn't have a dime super does it?

And 26% rake at Woodbine on tri and supes?

[Canarsie]

There are $1 base bets for verticals and the new 50-cent P5 at Del Mar.

Woodbine doesn't have a dime super does it?

And 26% rake at Woodbine on tri and supes?

Woodbine and Mohawk both have 20 cent P4's for years on track. I'm not sure if that wager can be made with Canadian ADW's. Hoof would know that for sure.

The problem is that we can't play their 20 cents menu and they can't wager dime supers across the border.

[HoofedInTheChest]

There are $1 base bets for verticals and the new 50-cent P5 at Del Mar.

Woodbine doesn't have a dime super does it?

And 26% rake at Woodbine on tri and supes?

You are right, i shouldn't have used Delmar in that generalization, i don't play California tracks so i wasn't really aware. For the most part i was just stating $2 betting menu's aren't exactly friendly to the horseplayer.
Woodbine has a 20 cent Super for Canadian players, not sure what it is for Americans.
Woodbine has a 25% rake on Tri's, and a 26% rake on Supers. It hasn't stopped me from making wagers, i have hit some glorious payouts with those bets so i really don't give takeouts alot of thought...... who knows maybe i am naive.

[BlueShoe]

I think you might be stuck in 1995 as I don't think there's an Oak Tree meet anymore.
Old habits die hard. The Oak Tree dates were awarded to Santa Anita by the CHRB months ago. Racing will be at the SA location regardless of what name it is called or who runs it. When I attend the races this October at SA, as far as I am concerned, it is "Oak Tree". May or may not sign up for an ADW account at that time. Still will not give my SS# online. Still will attend live racing or visit otb sites. Still ticked off, as mentioned earlier, at the way California has mismanaged simulcast wagering. Still stuck in the past. Still think nostalgia is wonderful.:ThmbUp:

[duncan04]

Old habits die hard. The Oak Tree dates were awarded to Santa Anita by the CHRB months ago. Racing will be at the SA location regardless of what name it is called or who runs it. When I attend the races this October at SA, as far as I am concerned, it is "Oak Tree". May or may not sign up for an ADW account at that time. Still will not give my SS# online. Still will attend live racing or visit otb sites. Still ticked off, as mentioned earlier, at the way California has mismanaged simulcast wagering. Still stuck in the past. Still think nostalgia is wonderful.:ThmbUp:


Even if you sign up at the track your SS# will find its way online as they put all the filled out forms into a computer database and it would be linked with your account. Not sure there is anyway around it unless you strictly bet at the track