Rail Trip missing So. Cal

[outofthebox]

Rail Trip needs to go back to California. Dutrows had this horse for over a year and has only run him 3 times, with aluminum pads no less. I like this horse a lot, and i'd like to see him run in the Pacific Classic if he comes out of the Whitney in good shape.

[Mineshaft]

Rail Trip needs to go back to California. Dutrows had this horse for over a year and has only run him 3 times, with aluminum pads no less. I like this horse a lot, and i'd like to see him run in the Pacific Classic if he comes out of the Whitney in good shape.



didnt look too good the last 200 yds of the race.

[sonnyp]

this is the colt that was going good on the cali circuit with the trainer that does commentary for tvg on occasion ? the owner and his daughter were smarter than the trainer and yanked him out of there and sent him east, right?

wonder if they're feelin so smart now?

[horses4courses]

Rail Trip needs to go back to California. Dutrows had this horse for over a year and has only run him 3 times, with aluminum pads no less. I like this horse a lot, and i'd like to see him run in the Pacific Classic if he comes out of the Whitney in good shape.

I fully agree.
The horse loves Hollywood Park.
He should go back under Ron Ellis's care, and be pointed towards next year's
Gold Cup there.
Plenty of money to be won with him, if sound.

[Reezy]

He should have never been taken away from ron ellis.. might as well b retired now

[Citation1947]

He should go back under Ron Ellis's care,

Personally, i'd never trained another horse for those people after what they did. But that's just me.

[Robert Fischer]

It was a good gamble.

They had a horse who was winning these 2nd tier type races in Ca., and had a chance to send him to a top-tier trainer and compete for Top Grade1 races and even the Breeders Cup....

Several ways to look at it

he wasn't good enough, and the cali scene had flattered him
he got hurt
hes just a west-coast kinda guy, the stress of the big apple did him in

[toussaud]

I don't know what it is but this is not the old rail trip.

i mean, even if you want to say he's not good this is a horse that never had a problem with 10F and but now he's folding like a lawn chair in a 9F race with slow fractions. just doesn't make sense. they screwed the pooch.

[cj]

Are we just going to pretend surface might not be a factor?

Also, he won three of his last five on rubber, but the two losses were at 10f at 5 to 2 and 2 to 5. Lets not pretend like he is some champion stayer.

[sonnyp]

I don't know what it is but this is not the old rail trip.

i mean, even if you want to say he's not good this is a horse that never had a problem with 10F and but now he's folding like a lawn chair in a 9F race with slow fractions. just doesn't make sense. they screwed the pooch.


that aluminum pad he wears is there for a reason toussaud. ellis must have had that foot under control and now he's regressed.

[toussaud]

i'm not saying it's not there for a reason. i'm saying that ellis obliviously could manage the horses issues. then dutrow gets him and remember all the talk about the hind end and then the pad and stuff.. just not a good deal all the way around.

[sonnyp]

i'm not saying it's not there for a reason. i'm saying that ellis obliviously could manage the horses issues. then dutrow gets him and remember all the talk about the hind end and then the pad and stuff.. just not a good deal all the way around.


again i say, bad decision by the owners.

[PaceAdvantage]

Ron Ellis? Is he even still training horses? I don't play Cali, so I don't know.

But I do know that I just checked out the top 100 trainers on NTRA.com and Ellis is nowhere to be found, and I checked it twice.

Even D. Wayne Lukas is on there at #60.

As for Rick Dutrow, he's at #21...not too shabby...

[outofthebox]

Ron Ellis? Is he even still training horses? I don't play Cali, so I don't know.

But I do know that I just checked out the top 100 trainers on NTRA.com and Ellis is nowhere to be found, and I checked it twice.

Even D. Wayne Lukas is on there at #60.

As for Rick Dutrow, he's at #21...not too shabby...My beef is not against Dutrow, who is a top trainer. But when you only get 3 races in a years time its time to go back to where you had success at. Ellis has always been a high % trainer throughout his career. Him having a slow year earnings wise is just part of the cycle when your not a high demand trainer.

[Fingal]

this is the colt that was going good on the cali circuit with the trainer that does commentary for tvg on occasion ? the owner and his daughter were smarter than the trainer and yanked him out of there and sent him east, right?

wonder if they're feelin so smart now?

It was the impulsive decision of the old man when an odds on favorite got beat in the Hollywood Gold Cup, not Samantha. She fought to keep the horse out here in CA with Ron, but when Dad writes the checks, what can you do ?

The ironic thing is that Mace said to ease things over that besides Dutrow, he would also give Ron Ellis the trainer's share of Rail Trip's earnings.
Considering how Rail Trip's ability has declined, I believe Ron is still waiting for those checks.

[toussaud]

the proof is in the pudding. you cannot deny that Ellis had tons more success with this particular horse than dutrow has.

Look at Rachel Alexandria. Steve is always at the top of the trainers standings. After 6 months with Steve O she was a shell of old self. Wiggins had turned that filly into a monster.

[Fager Fan]

the proof is in the pudding. you cannot deny that Ellis had tons more success with this particular horse than dutrow has.

Look at Rachel Alexandria. Steve is always at the top of the trainers standings. After 6 months with Steve O she was a shell of old self. Wiggins had turned that filly into a monster.

A monster against 3yo fillies. I don't know that things would've been any different had she gone up against males, males, then older males, all while under the care of Wiggins. And none of that was Asmussen's call, it was Jackson's. I'm not criticizing as I'm glad we got to see what Rachel was capable of, but there's little doubt that there's definitely a trade off that's made when a filly guts herself going against males, particularly older when she's just 3, going a route on dirt.

[Fager Fan]

My beef is not against Dutrow, who is a top trainer. But when you only get 3 races in a years time its time to go back to where you had success at. Ellis has always been a high % trainer throughout his career. Him having a slow year earnings wise is just part of the cycle when your not a high demand trainer.

You don't think the foot issue has anything to do with the low number of starts since he's had him? No foot, no horse. I thought he went out last year to let the foot heal. I was surprised they brought the horse back before it healed. Now I'm not so sure there's anything to salvage, losing all that time and being right back where they were with the foot.

[toussaud]

You don't think the foot issue has anything to do with the low number of starts since he's had him? No foot, no horse. I thought he went out last year to let the foot heal. I was surprised they brought the horse back before it healed. Now I'm not so sure there's anything to salvage, losing all that time and being right back where they were with the foot.
rail trip has had foot issues ever since he was 3. again, he did not start racing until like, a month before he was 4. and he never races close together.

ron ellis had this horse perfectly managed.

[sonnyp]

rail trip has had foot issues ever since he was 3. again, he did not start racing until like, a month before he was 4. and he never races close together.

ron ellis had this horse perfectly managed.


was he not running on rubber in cali and against a notch less ?

[outofthebox]

:( AYou don't think the foot issue has anything to do with the low number of starts since he's had him? No foot, no horse. I thought he went out last year to let the foot heal. I was surprised they brought the horse back before it healed. Now I'm not so sure there's anything to salvage, losing all that time and being right back where they were with the foot.Agree. Just think the Hollywood Park track to train on kept him together last year.

[classhandicapper]

I think he was a fairly high quality horse (on synthetic). I was willing to give him a pass for his bad race last year because he was having hoof problems, but neither of his races this year are as good as several of his synthetic races in the past. He's either having more problems than we know about or he's simply better on synthetics, but he's obviously not running as well on dirt as he has in the past.

[classhandicapper]

I think he was a fairly high quality horse (on synthetic). I was willing to give him a pass for his bad race last year because he was having hoof problems, but neither of his races this year are as good as several of his synthetic races in the past. He's either having more problems than we know about or he's simply better on synthetics, but he's obviously not running as well on dirt now as he was on synthetics in the past. Of course this was probably the toughest field he has ever faced, but it was the toughest field for just about all the horses in the race.

[PaceAdvantage]

was he not running on rubber in cali and against a notch less ?Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....this is a "bash Dutrow, praise Ellis" thread...didn't you know?

Other facts be damned... :lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

Him having a slow year earnings wise is just part of the cycle when your not a high demand trainer.But the implication in this thread has been that Ellis is a better trainer than Dutrow.

If that's the case, folks should be flocking to Ron. Why isn't he in high demand (your words, not mine)? Is he spending too much time on TVG?

[Relwob Owner]

But the implication in this thread has been that Ellis is a better trainer than Dutrow.

If that's the case, folks should be flocking to Ron. Why isn't he in high demand (your words, not mine)? Is he spending too much time on TVG?


Overall, I don't see that implication in this thread. Most seem to be saying that Ellis has had better success with this particular horse, which is true.

[toussaud]

Overall, I don't see that implication in this thread. Most seem to be saying that Ellis has had better success with this particular horse, which is true.
i don't see that either. I think dutrow is a hell of a trainer, but you can't deny certain trainers and certain horses just mesh regardless of winning percentage. Ellis had rail trips number.

[JeremyJet]

Rail Trip needs to go back to California. Dutrows had this horse for over a year and has only run him 3 times, with aluminum pads no less. I like this horse a lot, and i'd like to see him run in the Pacific Classic if he comes out of the Whitney in good shape.

I don't think Dutrow, or the dirt is the problem (he was coming off a lifetime top heading into the Whitney). The problem is that he can't stay sound.

[classhandicapper]

(he was coming off a lifetime top heading into the Whitney). The problem is that he can't stay sound.

I think most would agree that soundness is an issue, but few would agree that his loss prior to the Whitney was his best or even his fastest lifetime race. IMO he wasn't all that good that day. However, IMO he was pretty good on several occasions in CA on rubber (perhaps just not on the figures you are using)

[toussaud]

STOP PLAYING AROUND AND SEND THIS HORSE BACK TO RON ELLIS! THIS JOKE HAS GONE ON TOO LONG

[outofthebox]

STOP PLAYING AROUND AND SEND THIS HORSE BACK TO RON ELLIS! THIS JOKE HAS GONE ON TOO LONGHe actually ran a pretty damn good race. I think the inside is death there today, and so far it's an outside path track. That said, Rail Trip is still running with that aluminum pad. So he still must be having issues with his feet. Send him back home and aim for that stake for older horses at Hollywood Park while the heavy heads are aiming for the BC>

[cj]

He actually ran a pretty damn good race.

Pretty good if he were an allowance horse, which is what this race pretty much was quality wise.

[outofthebox]

Pretty good if he were an allowance horse, which is what this race pretty much was quality wise.Have to agree with you on that CJ.

[DeltaLover]

Very simply the best days of RT belong in the past and will never come back..

He used to be good horse although overestimated both by his connections and the betting public....


He should have been retired a year ago...

[toussaud]

Very simply the best days of RT belong in the past and will never come back..

He used to be good horse although overestimated both by his connections and the betting public....


He should have been retired a year ago...
no

[classhandicapper]

The way I see it, he's 8-12 on synthetic and a Grade 1 winner (with a couple of excuses in his losses) and 0 for 4 on dirt. IMO, it's clearly not a quality of competition issue. If he was winning these minor races with figures comparable to what he was running in CA and then getting killed in the Grade 1 races, I'd say OK. But he's running slower on dirt even though it's generally synthetic figures that tend to be depressed. So he's either massively better on synthetic tracks, his physical issues are holding him back, or Dutrow is not doing as good a job with him. Personally, I think he's probably a better horse on synthetic. He's not the first one.

All that said, it did look a little like the rail may not have been the best place to be yesterday. So maybe he wasn't as bad as he looked.

[toussaud]

HE'S COMING HOME!!

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/thoroughbred-racing/rail-trip-returns-to-california-trainer-ron-ellis/

:jump: :jump: :jump: :cool: :jump: :)

[classhandicapper]

HE'S COMING HOME!!

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/thoroughbred-racing/rail-trip-returns-to-california-trainer-ron-ellis/

:jump: :jump: :jump: :cool: :jump: :)


It's about 3 races too late, but IMO if there's any hope of this horse recovering his better form, it's on the synthetic tracks in CA.

[cj]

It's about 3 races too late, but IMO if there's any hope of this horse recovering his better form, it's on the synthetic tracks in CA.

I tend to think it wasn't the surface but that something just isn't right with the horse. We'll see, I guess it can't hurt to try, but I predict a very short time before retirement.

[horses4courses]

Well, I think Saturday's San Diego result shows that owner Samantha Siegel made the right decision to send the horse back to Ron Ellis.

He may not be a threat in the major races any more, but Rail Trip proved that he is still a decent horse. :ThmbUp:

http://www.drf.com/news/del-mar-rail-trip-gets-his-swagger-back-san-diego-handicap