getting funny...oh yeah

[skate]

Bank of New York Mellon (http://online.wsj.com/public/quotes/main.html?type=djn&symbol=BK) Corp. is preparing to charge some large depositors to hold their cash,



I can't wait till we can pay THEM interest after we purchase their Bonds.:bang:

Oh things are heating up;)



this is one that even "Dumber and Dumber" forgot.:rolleyes:

[skate]

Getting Toasted-ly

BNY Mellon's move shows the strains that plague the U.S. economy and the global financial system.
In response to the recession(might be the start) and anemic recovery, the Federal Reserve has pushed interest rates to zero and purchased $2.6 trillion of mortgage and Treasury securities.

In the process, it has flooded the financial system with cash.

[Mike at A+]

This reminds me of the Al Pacino movie Scarface where the drug cartel was paying the bank to launder their money.

[skate]

money war on top of everything we have going.

Japan lowers yuan, yesterday. USA will follow soon soon soon, which means your dollar will go low low lower.

re write history,,,...right after i made my first Billion....gees.:confused:

[skate]

hey, things are looking UP...down in Cuba.:)

[cj's dad]

What does anyone expect ?? Look what we have for a prezdint !!

[Dick Schmidt]

Why not? Swiss banks have been charging account holders for years. You pay for the service and saftey. Don't like it, then don't do it.

Dick

P.S. Japan didn't do a thing to the yuan. They did tinker with the yen to make it less valuable. If the yen gets too valuable, Japan can't export and that cuts them off at the knees.



Money can't buy happiness, but you can always rent.

[skate]

Why not? Swiss banks have been charging account holders for years. You pay for the service and saftey. Don't like it, then don't do it.

Dick

P.S. Japan didn't do a thing to the yuan. They did tinker with the yen to make it less valuable. If the yen gets too valuable, Japan can't export and that cuts them off at the knees.



Money can't buy happiness, but you can always rent.


yes ...the YEN,,Tinker as in LOWER. Is your thinking that the USA will NOT follow :) ? Currency War is what i Say.

What do you say ;) ?

Swiss went that way back in '77, which is a good idea if you need hiding, nothing wrong with hiding as long as YOU need hiding.

This should work out REAL Good :D .

[skate]

This "race to the bottom," , will have no winners. Only losers, the biggest of which will be the United States.


just sayin

[Robert Goren]

China is constantly devaluing their currency.That way they keep selling their junk to the USA and Europe.

[Robert Fischer]

you're right about a currency conflict. However, Japan is on our team.

[Tom]

Swiss banks have a lot a slimey things over the years.
Can't get much lower than the Swiss.

Sieg Heil!

[Robert Fischer]

Currency War is what i Say.

What do you say ;) ?

when we devalue our currency it has a neat effect. It is very similar to taxing(or any number of direct acts of economic aggression) our major IMPORTER.
The reason is that by devaluing, just as Dick Schmidt pointed out, devaluing makes export MORE attractive and it makes import LESS attractive.* if anyone wants an explanation feel free to ask - it's not a dumb thing to ask- and this does get confusing as we start twisting around things in almost "opposites". :ThmbUp:
These "devaluing currency" tactics work in the same way as taxing a foreign import would.

On the ECONOMIC FRONT(front is a scary word)
on the economic front, devaluing has gone on for some time.
I am not sure whether the Chinese blazed the trail here or not. One of the nationalist propaganda that has been spewed is that those Chinese are "copycats". And it is TRUE that there have been TONS of intellegence and technology "reverse-engineered" so there is basis(just like there is "basis" behind most propaganda, nevertheless we think for ourselves and we think critically whether we love our nation or not, ESPECIALLY IF WE LOVE OUR NATION! :mad: :jump: )
But here I am relatively ignorant, and I am aware that we may have been among the first to accuse the other of devaluing or worse yet undervaluing currency... I am wise enough however to know that I am ignorant(wow bumper sticker or what!?), but we may or may not be better at this crap or the forerunners. Luckily (or dangerously) part of the western alliance has been money manipulators and the leaders in the world. Brilliant people come in all nationalities, and knowledge can quickly be learned reverse-learned(i admit to bullshitting this term), and evolve...

Anyway if the world is **really(read the footnotes below) split in these two major alliances (WEST VS EAST) and there really is an effort by both to devalue the currency...
That in and of itself is complex. With BOTH sides doing it, then what do the geniuses think of will be the result. I worry that China is very very strong with these types of long-term <redacted>fare [conflictfare] as is reflected in their strong WEI-QI play. Russia is very strong with rigid rule-defined smaller games like chess. Not that the members of the West alliance aren't also very strong in general and in specific areas, but the East can't be respected enough in an economic conflict.

As in Thermonuclear and all other devastating types of <redacted>, Economic CONFLICT, the idea of M.A.D. becomes a topic of intellectual debate. When you get "too big to fail" or even if alliances have "cascading failures" set up in a "DEAD HAND" there becomes "IN THEORY:faint: " the idea that such both sides feel annihilating the other would surely lead to themselves facing economic collapse. On one hand(excuse the PUN :blush: ) this ECON MAD is great because it may even prevent CONFLICT with more conventional weapons, and escalationimages/UBGX/06.gif of ALL conflicts. On the other, it is dangerous because those who own the means of production can't be hurt, so they can sacrifice Populations and Classes without themselves having to colonize the moon. Just like Bombs, guns, viruses, chemicals and biological agents it can do a number on regular people, but with ECONOMICS we may have a greater risk of people thinking they are TOO SMART TO LOSE OR CAUSE GREAT LOSS. Unlike the simple game called chess(where masters can only hope to draw an up-to-date super computer) or the moderately complex game called WEI-QI(where masters have no trouble whooping robocop at this point in the evolution of programming), econo-conflicts can get really complicated( ONLY when pushed to a high level... they can also be simple if the eventual loser is limited- therefore his "rule-set" becomes like that of chess or easier..) to the point that over-confidence is nearly a symptom of any strong confidence.

BACK to the topic of economic conflict as these endless subtopic of ECONOMIC CONFLICT THEORY can keep getting more complex (maybe it deserves it's own "think-aloud" thread??)...

If we have such A CURRENCY CONFLICT, imagine if the powers that be decided to use GOLD??
It would be a seriously powerful trick.
For example it costs like $200-350 an ounce for the world's most efficient companies to produce an ounce of gold when mining. Each once is worth 1600 in the market. So that's like $1,300 of inflated value on each once. And then the world mined Two Million Kilos of gold in 2010. So @ 1.3K(thousand dollars / not "Kilos") an ounce that amounts to like $84Billion Dollars in inflation just for gold. And each of the past 10 years or so we have produced Hundreds of Thousands of kilos of mined gold, and that 1.3K wasn't the same 10 years ago, but has kind of been increasing, just like it's kind of been coincidentally along similar times of the currency conflict's ESCALATION. No one really questions Gold about OVERPRODUCTION BECAUSE








people believe in the propaganda that gold is a standard, and/or a viable reserve. They don't even CONSIDER viewing gold as a typical commodity. Even Karl Marx I am fairly sure used gold as a standard for ratio comparison to "regular" commodities
If you were a marketplayer- would you BLAB about something where the public is wrong??? NO! u bet against accordingly. Just like if you knew UNCLE MO was going to lose in the Derby(sucks his market crashed a race too early!!) you wouldn't blabb about it if you planned on paying rent when the public was wrong.
aside from cashing in, you wouldn't want to pick a fight with these powerful alliances and their propaganda machine if you could actually see the workings...
Not only is "overproduction" bet-against, the "PROPERTY" of it as a STANDARD and RESERVER, leads to a self fulfilling prophecy. Not sure what that means? If overP causes devaluing inflation, then believers in it's "reserve property" will actually invest IN it - BECAUSE OF the inflation that they see in the currency markets. See how that works? It's like a black-hole effect. Propaganda is the key to this working. And so far if you did invest in gold, the money in your account has INCREASED nicely :ThmbUp::ThmbUp:. So how can that be a bad thing. Who cares what is going on, if the money is real? It's like my horse in the 8th the other day - my buddy says to me "his horse(my buddy's horse) was best even though he lost, your(my) horse who got a DREAM TRIP" tell it to the steak i just ate!!! :D

So if gold itself could do this billions a year for years inflation / devaluing currency trick that is amazing. - and we didn't even mention that Overproduction could(and when something CAN be done, it ...) even extend into the virtual world. As in any currency, gold doesn't even have to exist in the physical form to change hands, it is traded, and saved much much more than it is delivered -(tell your anti-gold friends who claim gold doesn't have qualities of a real currency, this! IN YOUR FACE SUCKA :p ). - I didn't go there other than this last sentence because it is super complicated and disheartening - its bad for business. Anyways...
for a comodity to pull off something like that, it's scarcity should be played up big time with propaganda, it's cost of production should be hidden, and also it should be (the old Marx technique) compared to other KEY commodities in a RATIO form. As the standard ration for gold is 1OUNCE=15 BARRELS and other KEY commodities have gold ratios as well. These ratios are (in general and barring major major events) kept the same. Check today's prices with 10 years ago. Why? so that when looking at long term trends we know that the CAUSE for gold's price increasing has been INFLATION of the dollar. This both "proves" that Inflation and weakening dollar are the CAUSE, and it also hides that price manipulation of gold is itself a very powerful weapon in the WCC world currency conflict's effort to devalue the currency. Anywho... gold is just a tiny part of the currency conflict, nontheless both the WEST and the EAST have taken part in this race, and it may be one of the more INTERESTING little subtopics for this currency conflict.

The whole thing is confusing. Depending on what propaganda you buy into, you may not even notice we are in this whole thing. Or you may go to extremes... Or you may notice economic THINGS happening and blame them on whatever you are TOLD to blame (for example the "leader" of the other party - It's Obama's fault!!!..It's republican's fault!!!, It's 9-11's fault!!! its the Housing Bubbles fault!!!, It's the Debt Crisis' fault!!!, It's Zenyatta's fault!, It's Rachel's fault!!!, its Durkins' fault!!!, It's the communist's fault!!! it's big government's fault!!!, It's the very wealthy's fault!!!, It's the fault of a different race/culture/religion!!!, It's the fault of a different sex, lack of sex, or sexual preference!!!, It's the unions, it's big business, it's Big military/energy/propaganda/prison/education/pharm!!!, It's the illuminati's fault!!, It's their fault!!!, IT'S MY FAULT. ) :lol::lol:





**I say "REALLY" here because propaganda is blinding enough for just 1 nation to the point that most of us are 99.99% ignorant.... -ASSuming that I am illuminated past this is arrogant but I have some confidence and I do this for a living(analyze the probability of systems, not macroeconomics for national defense)... and it the propaganda gets even MORE :bang: complex with more nations, less complete information of everything and most importantly the underlying POWER STRUCTURE(moloch which rules all and is at once the most simple, and most complex) so that once we get to the point where US/UK/Israel/Nato... is in one huge GANG called an "alliance" and is having this huge "CONFLICT"(better than the w-word) with the gang in the East Russia/China/iran/dprk... it can get about as complex as general theories on the solar system compared to just earth.... with Propaganda comes unknown... and that's assuming we even have a "conflict" with WEST VS EAST and not as crazed conspiracy nuts(often selling stuff) think where the scenario is that of just ONE Alliance encompassing an "Order" on the whole "World" - in which case i couldn't even comprehend with the idea somewhere stated in here that there is at least a "basis" which the Propaganda roughly outlines some of the general truths, and I personally think that a one-alliance NWO theory is not true, but could be one day... :confused:]

[lamboguy]

Why not? Swiss banks have been charging account holders for years. You pay for the service and saftey. Don't like it, then don't do it.

Dick

P.S. Japan didn't do a thing to the yuan. They did tinker with the yen to make it less valuable. If the yen gets too valuable, Japan can't export and that cuts them off at the knees.



Money can't buy happiness, but you can always rent.there is a sucker born every minute

[Saratoga_Mike]

China is constantly devaluing their currency.That way they keep selling their junk to the USA and Europe.

Yeah, that's not true. It's pegged to the dollar and has been allowed to appreciate modestly vs the US dollar over the past couple of yrs. Now as the dollar weakens against other currencies, so does the yuan.

[skate]

Robert Fisher

I can understand when you say it is in your business and that makes it rough to comment on all aspects...

questions on your qoute bellow



"So if gold itself could do this billions a year for years inflation / devaluing currency trick that is amazing. - and we didn't even mention that Overproduction could(and when something CAN be done, it ...) even extend into the virtual world. As in any currency, gold doesn't even have to exist in the physical form to change hands, it is traded, and saved much much more than it is delivered -(tell your anti-gold friends who claim gold doesn't have qualities of a real currency, this! IN YOUR FACE SUCKA :p ). - I didn't"


What do you think, since Japan lowered the 'won' by some 4%? Seems big to me?

Take a look at this, since the Value of Gold is meassured by the Value of the Dollar, when gold goes up as the dollar goes down, then the real value of gold does not increase.

Gold is valued at $1700 Dollars, if the Dollar went to .50, 1/2 of its current value, then the real value of that same gold would be cut in 1/2.

That's why people say that Gold does not have real value.

And if we continue into a currency WAR, all value will decrease and in such a case, the dollar will stand to lose the most, since the dollar is atteched to the price of gold, as the dollar goes south, so does the real value for gold.

[skate]

This "race to the bottom," , will have no winners. Only losers, the biggest of which will be the United States.


just sayin

8/18/11
The dollar fell to new lows versus the yen as risk aversion swept through the currency market on Friday.
The dollar retreated to ¥75.94 in early trade, surpassing the previous post-World War II record of ¥76.25 set after Japan's March earthquake.


a little here a little there...

[Actor]

Can't get much lower than the Swiss.
Swiss cheese is good. However, I think it comes from Wisconsin. :)

[Saratoga_Mike]

Robert Fisher

I can understand when you say it is in your business and that makes it rough to comment on all aspects...

questions on your qoute bellow



"So if gold itself could do this billions a year for years inflation / devaluing currency trick that is amazing. - and we didn't even mention that Overproduction could(and when something CAN be done, it ...) even extend into the virtual world. As in any currency, gold doesn't even have to exist in the physical form to change hands, it is traded, and saved much much more than it is delivered -(tell your anti-gold friends who claim gold doesn't have qualities of a real currency, this! IN YOUR FACE SUCKA :p ). - I didn't"


What do you think, since Japan lowered the 'won' by some 4%? Seems big to me?

Take a look at this, since the Value of Gold is meassured by the Value of the Dollar, when gold goes up as the dollar goes down, then the real value of gold does not increase.

Gold is valued at $1700 Dollars, if the Dollar went to .50, 1/2 of its current value, then the real value of that same gold would be cut in 1/2.

That's why people say that Gold does not have real value.

And if we continue into a currency WAR, all value will decrease and in such a case, the dollar will stand to lose the most, since the dollar is atteched to the price of gold, as the dollar goes south, so does the real value for gold.

Are you joking here?

[skate]

Are you joking here?


maybe...but to what do you ask the question?


Your highlite i'd assume..........so yes to the hylite.

can you be specific on the joke part.? seems simple enough to the-skate.

no dispute, cept for mty spelling;)

[Saratoga_Mike]

"as the dollar goes south, so does the real value for gold."

What has the dollar done against the Euro, Yen, Swiss Franc, Real, and Yuan this yr? Okay, in dollar terms how much has gold appreciated YTD?

Your statement is just glaringly incorrect. Reality is 180-degree opposite of your assertion. If the Fed announced tomorrow that they were going to pursue a $3 trillion QE program, the dollar would get crushed (go south) and gold would soar.

[skate]

"as the dollar goes south, so does the real value for gold."

What has the dollar done against the Euro, Yen, Swiss Franc, Real, and Yuan this yr? Okay, in dollar terms how much has gold appreciated YTD?

Your statement is just glaringly incorrect. Reality is 180-degree opposite of your assertion. If the Fed announced tomorrow that they were going to pursue a $3 trillion QE program, the dollar would get crushed (go south) and gold would soar.


So then... it seems simple enough for you to figure, the questiion from me "what would you receive when you sell your gold" .?

Of coarse gold can "soar", it can go to $5000/oz., that's $5000 DOLLARS for your gold and the DOLLAR is Crushed or worth ZERO.

Your problem is that the gold has Value in DOLLARS. well out from your control, i might add.