The Witch Trial Of Lou Pena

[Sea Biscuit]

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g387/secretariat3/Witch.jpghttp://http://www.my-image-host.com/show.php/18918_Witch.jpg.html

As quoted word for word from the Wikipedia entry for The Salem Witch Trials: The Salem witch trials were a series of hearings before local magistrates followed by county court of trials to prosecute people accused of witchcraft in Essex, Suffolk, and Middlesex counties of colonial Massachusetts, between February 1692 and May 1693.


The episode has been used in political rhetoric and popular literature as a vivid cautionary tale about the dangers of religious extremism, false accusations, lapses in due process, and governmental intrusion on individual liberties


http://www.harnesslink.com/www/Article.cgi?ID=81336

[Sea Biscuit]

His response


Have officialdom at New York's Yonkers Raceway let an accumulated weight of rumor and innuendo sway its decision-making at the expense of an individual's civil and constitutional rights? The track's leading harness racing trainer definitely thinks so.


As of next Thursday night (August 4) Sacramento conditioner Lou Pena will no longer be permitted to train or race his horses at the Empire City Casino track. No reasons were given except for saying “it was in the best interests of harness racing”.

But Pena and most of the harness racing fraternity in North America know he has been banned simply because he’s winning too many races: 435 and ($5.8 million) in just seven months – and just 90 less than his season breaking year in 2010 when he won more than $7.2 million.

“I felt sick in my stomach when secretary Steve Starr told me to go. I couldn’t believe it. None of my horses have ever returned a positive. But I guess Yonkers being a private - track they can turn away who they want.

“I felt like an orphan on the street when they gave me no reason whatsoever. They just said you just gotta go,” Pena told Harnesslink.


Read the whole interview here

http://www.harnesslink.com/www/Article.cgi?ID=91267

[sonnyp]

stevie wonder and ray charles could see this guy is "dirty".

not only do his horses perform on a level that is absolutely impossible to achieve within legal limits, but he is also involved with false ownership and fraudulent presentation of trainer of record disclosure.

he's not the only one involved in this type of operation, but eliminating him is a great start at cleaning up, what has become, a pretty slimy industry.

[sonnyp]

this is one of my posts in another thread. you seem to know harness racing. how would you rate the performance of this 9 yo trotting mare.? unbelievable ?this is the open trot at yonkers, not a bunch of junk.


Astonishing
this is the filly and mare open pace from yonkers tonight. watch the trip of the #8 horse, delightful diva, a filly trained by lou pena.

this guy gets a lot of attention and criticism, and you have to wonder when you see a horse perform like this.

this is nothing short of incredible and she pays $30 and change. it's not like she's 1/9.

really makes you wonder.

http://replays.robertsstream.com/ra...01106252109YON7 (http://replays.robertsstream.com/racereplays/playf.php?customer=YonkersRaceway&t=1309051713&h=75c9ac2736ce78152385ea8a95284360&url=201106252109YON7)
images/statusicon/user_online.gif images/buttons/green/quote.gif (newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1119239)

[lenny1964]

that replay right there has to make one wonder. I remember that race as it was not that long ago. Horses simply do not race like that. Leave from the 8 hole and have no place to go, finally tuck in 6th or 7th, only to pull well before the half and be first over forever, then appear to have leveled off, only to find a little extra just before the wire. And the horses she beat are not cheap claimers, those two horses that were up front are very nice mares.

Hey, I do not have any answers. Perhaps it is just because Lou Pena is the best trainer since Stanley Dancer. If he is legit and can make his horses race like that, then lets get this guy into Goshen immediately.

The Harnesslink story made me laugh. They are so slanted and so transparent that it borders on being sickening. The way they presented that story was similar to how a defense attorney plays the sympathy card. IE. Lets show Lou BBQing some hamburgers for his staff, that'll show how nice of a guy he is.
Are you kidding me? This is their idea of journalism? The way they slant stories like this is a complete insult to any reasonably intelligent person. They are small-time writers covering a small-time sport, but they'd like you to think they are Dan Rather or Peter Jennings.

[sonnyp]

in my post i mistakenly refered to the mare and race as trots...they are obviuosly pacers but that has nothing to do with the point of the thread. the performance is the incredible thing.

[Sea Biscuit]

stevie wonder and ray charles could see this guy is "dirty".

not only do his horses perform on a level that is absolutely impossible to achieve within legal limits, but he is also involved with false ownership and fraudulent presentation of trainer of record disclosure.

he's not the only one involved in this type of operation, but eliminating him is a great start at cleaning up, what has become, a pretty slimy industry.

If Steve wonder and Ray Charles could see it, then why does the testing labs don't see it. I am pretty sure they have plenty of eyes.

Can you imagine an race official muttering words like

‘If you just slow it down a little bit, you’ll be fine’.
http://www.barntowire.com/smf/Themes/BTW8/images/icons/modify_inline.gif

Lou Pena said it best an I quote him

"In any other sport like say basketball, football or baseball success is applauded and the sports people are paid millions of dollars to keep improving."

Maybe its time we should tell out top basketball players not to dunk those balls into the basket too many times, our top baseball players not to hit too many home runs and how about our top football players not throw those touch downs too many times otherwise they will be out of the game.

This whole thing is absurd.

[LottaKash]

This whole thing is absurd.

Perhaps you are right Biscuit, "BUT" this guy "DOES" have this history of flagrant viiolations at Cal-Expo, and at LosAlamitos when they raced harness there.....A couple of times and a trainer learns, but over and over again, unhunh, he never learned....Hey the guy is a cheater, plain and simple, and there is proof of this....

In the world of Crooks and Thieves, they rarely, if ever change.....Once a CrooK........................Me, I don't want to keep getting F.d any longer...

Hey if the guy is a great trainer, good for him.....But, this guy has beaten my legitimate plays at the wire with horses that I would never consider to be contenders,ever......Once in awhile, I'm ok with that, but I don't think "any" trainer has this magic power to turn so many chronic losers, that were trained by successful trainers, into all these personal record setters, so many times and so often, as he has.....Too many eye openers for me, at least...

I applaud the decision that the tracks have a right to make....

Goodbye Louis, good riddance....

best,

With our sport in so much decay, and so many complaining of foul-play these days,

[Sea Biscuit]

Perhaps you are right Biscuit, "BUT" this guy "DOES" have this history of flagrant viiolations at Cal-Expo, and at LosAlamitos when they raced harness there.....A couple of times and a trainer learns, but over and over again, unhunh, he never learned....Hey the guy is a cheater, plain and simple, and there is proof of this....

In the world of Crooks and Thieves, they rarely, if ever change.....Once a CrooK........................Me, I don't want to keep getting F.d any longer...

Hey if the guy is a great trainer, good for him.....But, this guy has beaten my legitimate plays at the wire with horses that I would never consider to be contenders,ever......Once in awhile, I'm ok with that, but I don't think "any" trainer has this magic power to turn so many chronic losers, that were trained by successful trainers, into all these personal record setters, so many times and so often, as he has.....Too many eye openers for me, at least...

I applaud the decision that the tracks have a right to make....

Goodbye Louis, good riddance....

best,

With our sport in so much decay, and so many complaining of foul-play these days,

John: You know I have the greatest of respect for you but I think you are way off base here.

The last I heard we were in 2011 America and not Colonial America of 1692.

We have a law in this land of ours which clearly states that a person is innocent until proven guilty. If we move away from this basic right that every citizen enjoys then we will be reverting to the law of the jungle.

Coming back to Pena, if we bar him from racing at Yonkers for winning races at a good clip then who is next in line. Ron Burke has already has two recent positives and Mark Kesmodel is in the midst of serving a 75 day sentence for a positive. They have a high enough winning %, do we ban them too. As a matter of fact of the 13 trainers behind Lou in the Meadowlands trainer standings 9 have had a recent positive test on their scorecards while Lou has none since 2006 . Do we ban these trainers too?

Speaking of high win % Peter Klienhan is winning at a 31% clip while poor Lou has only 26% to boast for. Do we ban Klienhan too?

If we end up doing that, we would probably end up decimating the whole trainer colony at Yonkers.

[LottaKash]

Biscuit, points well taken, and I am for truth, always...

Still, this is a game about "$$$"...my dollars and your dollars....And the tracks as best they can, try to keep it a clean game...

STill, in keeping with the truth about human nature, there are those who don't respect "us"....Something is going on here, and even tho I/we can't put our finger on it, the savvy players and experienced horseman know this in their deep down.....To repeat, he is a many times convicted cheater in other jurisdictions....So, what has changed to lead me to believe that he has changed and has become this honest "super-trainer"....? .....What, by his tender loving care of his horses ?

The tracks, just as the casinos have reserved the right to ban anyone who they merely suspect of cheating.....They don't have to prove the why or how of it.....They just ban them....And that is what happened here....I say good to that.

This game of ours can stand to lose Lou Pena.....While he was taking the players for a ride on the west coast, we didn't miss him at all....We had our own cheaters to deal with at the time....We will get over it...haha...I will...

On several occasions, I am certain that he had "his hand" in my pockets....That is what irks me, I can't prove it, I just feel it in my deep down....Reality says that I am not always right, so given that, I look to my own failures and or omissions in my handicapping, firstly and formost, but then, why do I still feel that I got F-d, on more than one occasion...

Hey, the guys form reversals are startling at times, to say the least...Top trainers claim a horse, and win with them at first asking, they do it all the time.....I use that angle a lot...But, Pena's horses take new lifetime marks in their advanced ages....A simple hobble or bridle change can't do that for a horse....So still, without knowing the real truth, I stand on my feelings about Pena, anyway...He sucks, and he is not good for our game.....Proof or not......

best,

[DeanT]

Pena Barred From Yonkers (http://pullthepocket.blogspot.com/2011/08/pena-barred-from-yonkers.html)


It's official, super-trainer Lou Pena, who moved out from California a couple of years ago and started winning everything, left and right, as been barred from Yonkers, according to Bill Finley at Harnessracingupdate.com. (http://www.harnessracingupdate.com/restricted/pdf/hru/hru08011.pdf)

"Pena said there was no reason given to him for the ban"

As you all know this has been a hot button issue since last year, when Andrew Cohen (then of Harnesslink.com) started looking into some of the Pena magic. Since that time the trainer has been under the microscope and so far none of his horses have tested for anything in the mileau of cocktails our various jurisdictions test for.

This whole situation feels similar to that of Seldon Ledford, in terms of the numbers. Mr. Ledford came virtually out of the woodwork in 2008, winning with horses off the claim with numbers rarely seen in racing (although there have been a few trainers who have won at that rate since the presence of Arasesp and other designers, but they are now all cooled off). After a long investigation, as you know, Ledford and others were charged, when drugs and other paraphanelia were found in an ATF raid. (http://www.theharnessedge.com/news.asp?Mode=View&Story=14451)

Mr. Pena's numbers, are for lack of a better word, shocking. Last year when Cohen was on the warpath I personally did some digging and posted:

Since moving east from Cal-Expo he is a one man wrecking crew. At Chester he is 4 for 5 off the claim in 2010 (12 for 16 off claim at Chester since he got out east last year), for an 80% hit rate. At Freehold he is 2 for 2 off the claim in 2010, at the Meadowlands he is 4 for 12, making 2010 a 10 for 19 run. Overall his numbers are remarkable: 172 for 580 for a 30% hit rate, and a 0.430 UTRS.

When we compare those numbers to his Cal Expo ones: In 2008 (his last full year out west) he was 101 for 848 for a 12% win percentage. Going back in a database for 2008 and 2009 at Cal Ex his off the claim numbers were a shadow of his current ones. Out of 9 races off the claim he had zero wins, two seconds and zero thirds. Of those off the claim, four of nine horses came 7th or worse, with two coming dead last.

This year I noticed handicappers on boards (hat tip to the "whip" at Harnessdriver.com) are also crunching the 2011 numbers:

As of June 16th...

Chester Downs
Year To Date: 60 Starts; 22-6-8; 0.467 UDRS
1st Off Claims: 5 Starts; 4-0-0; 0.800 UDRS

Freehold -- Full Stats (Meet Closed)
Year To Date: 44 Starts; 12-12-5; 0.462 UDRS

Yonkers
Year To Date: 137 Starts; 44-24-19; 0.465 UDRS
1st Off Claims: 6 Starts; 4-0-1; 0.722 UDRS

Pocono Downs
Year To Date: 85 Starts; 35-7-9; 0.493 UDRS
1st Off Claims: 13 Starts; 8-0-1; 0.641 UDRS

Meadowlands
Year To Date: 338 Starts; 89-57-46; 0.402 UDRS
1st Off Claims: 12 Starts; 4-3-1; 0.500 UDRS

That's 10 for 19 off claim in the sample I looked at last season and 20 for 36 this season, for a grand total of 30 for 55 or a 54.4% win rate off the claim. So, what we have is a trainer who was 0% off claim in California, with a 12% win rate, moving east and winning off the claim at a rate that is unheard of, for as long as I have been following thoroughbred and harness racing.

In contrast, when the heat was put on Ledford, he was winning at 41% off the claim.

Whatever is happening, none of us know. All we know is that when a trainer comes out of the woodwork to win like this, get ready for tracks and the authorities to do all they can to address them, because they have a track record of doing just that.

[lenny1964]

One thing is very clear, he sure makes his horses perform. I am holding out hope that we are simply looking at the best trainer that has come down the pike in quite some time.

I do think it is unfair of people to just openly and blatantly call him a cheater. If so, how is he cheating and what is he using? This is especially true considering there are other prominent trainers/stables that have had positives, yet they continue on racing. They either put down a family member or a groom or whoever as the trainer and its business as usual.

Like I said before, horses just do not perform like Lou's stock performs. But, I have to stop short of calling him a cheater and I continue to hold out hope that he is just far and away the best trainer in the game.

[Not4Love]

How can "the best trainer" be banned from 5 or 6 tracks. Doesn't this mean something? The Meadowlands is next!!!

[lenny1964]

I understand what you're saying, 100%.

But right now, there is little (or nothing) to use against him.

I am trying to treat someone like I would want to be treated if I happened to be in this same situation. This is just one huge mess and I am the first to say that I have no solid answers.

[sonnyp]

I understand what you're saying, 100%.

But right now, there is little (or nothing) to use against him.

I am trying to treat someone like I would want to be treated if I happened to be in this same situation. This is just one huge mess and I am the first to say that I have no solid answers.


they have issues of false ownership and fraudulent representation of trainer of record in addition to the obvious level of his stable's performance.

[Sea Biscuit]

Pena Barred From Yonkers (http://pullthepocket.blogspot.com/2011/08/pena-barred-from-yonkers.html)


It's official, super-trainer Lou Pena, who moved out from California a couple of years ago and started winning everything, left and right, as been barred from Yonkers, according to Bill Finley at Harnessracingupdate.com. (http://www.harnessracingupdate.com/restricted/pdf/hru/hru08011.pdf)

"Pena said there was no reason given to him for the ban"

As you all know this has been a hot button issue since last year, when Andrew Cohen (then of Harnesslink.com) started looking into some of the Pena magic. Since that time the trainer has been under the microscope and so far none of his horses have tested for anything in the mileau of cocktails our various jurisdictions test for.

This whole situation feels similar to that of Seldon Ledford, in terms of the numbers. Mr. Ledford came virtually out of the woodwork in 2008, winning with horses off the claim with numbers rarely seen in racing (although there have been a few trainers who have won at that rate since the presence of Arasesp and other designers, but they are now all cooled off). After a long investigation, as you know, Ledford and others were charged, when drugs and other paraphanelia were found in an ATF raid. (http://www.theharnessedge.com/news.asp?Mode=View&Story=14451)

Mr. Pena's numbers, are for lack of a better word, shocking. Last year when Cohen was on the warpath I personally did some digging and posted:

Since moving east from Cal-Expo he is a one man wrecking crew. At Chester he is 4 for 5 off the claim in 2010 (12 for 16 off claim at Chester since he got out east last year), for an 80% hit rate. At Freehold he is 2 for 2 off the claim in 2010, at the Meadowlands he is 4 for 12, making 2010 a 10 for 19 run. Overall his numbers are remarkable: 172 for 580 for a 30% hit rate, and a 0.430 UTRS.

When we compare those numbers to his Cal Expo ones: In 2008 (his last full year out west) he was 101 for 848 for a 12% win percentage. Going back in a database for 2008 and 2009 at Cal Ex his off the claim numbers were a shadow of his current ones. Out of 9 races off the claim he had zero wins, two seconds and zero thirds. Of those off the claim, four of nine horses came 7th or worse, with two coming dead last.

This year I noticed handicappers on boards (hat tip to the "whip" at Harnessdriver.com) are also crunching the 2011 numbers:

As of June 16th...

Chester Downs
Year To Date: 60 Starts; 22-6-8; 0.467 UDRS
1st Off Claims: 5 Starts; 4-0-0; 0.800 UDRS

Freehold -- Full Stats (Meet Closed)
Year To Date: 44 Starts; 12-12-5; 0.462 UDRS

Yonkers
Year To Date: 137 Starts; 44-24-19; 0.465 UDRS
1st Off Claims: 6 Starts; 4-0-1; 0.722 UDRS

Pocono Downs
Year To Date: 85 Starts; 35-7-9; 0.493 UDRS
1st Off Claims: 13 Starts; 8-0-1; 0.641 UDRS

Meadowlands
Year To Date: 338 Starts; 89-57-46; 0.402 UDRS
1st Off Claims: 12 Starts; 4-3-1; 0.500 UDRS

That's 10 for 19 off claim in the sample I looked at last season and 20 for 36 this season, for a grand total of 30 for 55 or a 54.4% win rate off the claim. So, what we have is a trainer who was 0% off claim in California, with a 12% win rate, moving east and winning off the claim at a rate that is unheard of, for as long as I have been following thoroughbred and harness racing.

In contrast, when the heat was put on Ledford, he was winning at 41% off the claim.

Whatever is happening, none of us know. All we know is that when a trainer comes out of the woodwork to win like this, get ready for tracks and the authorities to do all they can to address them, because they have a track record of doing just that.

Dean: Thanks for providing all those good stats.

If I recall they were raising their eyebrows at Casie Coleman when she was winning at a good clip at WEG. They put all her charges in retention barn and they were still winning.

Then came Rene Allard and they put all his horses in retention also but nothing much came off it either

I don't know if they ever put Lou's horses in retention or not but if they didn't, that is what they should be doing.

You just don't ban someone on hearsay.

[Sea Biscuit]

Biscuit, points well taken, and I am for truth, always...

Still, this is a game about "$$$"...my dollars and your dollars....And the tracks as best they can, try to keep it a clean game...

STill, in keeping with the truth about human nature, there are those who don't respect "us"....Something is going on here, and even tho I/we can't put our finger on it, the savvy players and experienced horseman know this in their deep down.....To repeat, he is a many times convicted cheater in other jurisdictions....So, what has changed to lead me to believe that he has changed and has become this honest "super-trainer"....? .....What, by his tender loving care of his horses ?

The tracks, just as the casinos have reserved the right to ban anyone who they merely suspect of cheating.....They don't have to prove the why or how of it.....They just ban them....And that is what happened here....I say good to that.

This game of ours can stand to lose Lou Pena.....While he was taking the players for a ride on the west coast, we didn't miss him at all....We had our own cheaters to deal with at the time....We will get over it...haha...I will...

On several occasions, I am certain that he had "his hand" in my pockets....That is what irks me, I can't prove it, I just feel it in my deep down....Reality says that I am not always right, so given that, I look to my own failures and or omissions in my handicapping, firstly and formost, but then, why do I still feel that I got F-d, on more than one occasion...

Hey, the guys form reversals are startling at times, to say the least...Top trainers claim a horse, and win with them at first asking, they do it all the time.....I use that angle a lot...But, Pena's horses take new lifetime marks in their advanced ages....A simple hobble or bridle change can't do that for a horse....So still, without knowing the real truth, I stand on my feelings about Pena, anyway...He sucks, and he is not good for our game.....Proof or not......

best,

"That is what irks me, I can't prove it, I just feel it in my deep down"

John You see that picture of people being burned at the stake in the article. Ask any of those guys what they think of the 'feelings' of those guys who are trying to burn them. I am sure it would be in unprintable four letter words.

"On several occasions, I am certain that he had "his hand" in my pockets"

Geez John: I would hate to be the next trainer who had "his hand" in your pocket.:lol::lol:

[LottaKash]

"
"On several occasions, I am certain that he had "his hand" in my pockets"

Geez John: I would hate to be the next trainer who had "his hand" in your pocket.:lol::lol:




Yes Biscuit, Laughter is the Best Medicine....:jump: ....This too shall pass..:cool:

best,

[PaceAdvantage]

they have issues of false ownership and fraudulent representation of trainer of record in addition to the obvious level of his stable's performance.I'm unfamiliar with much of the back story (except him winning like a machine, having intense scrutiny thrown his way, and ZERO positives in the last five years)...what is this "false ownership" and "fraudulent representation of trainer of record" that you speak of?

Are these simply clerical errors? I know ownership screw ups happen all the time in the t-breds...is that what you're talking about?

And this thread will probably be merged with the other, earlier Pena thread which is discussing the exact same thing...

[PaceAdvantage]

not only do his horses perform on a level that is absolutely impossible to achieve within legal limits,And you know this for a fact how, exactly?

[DeanT]

Dean: Thanks for providing all those good stats.

If I recall they were raising their eyebrows at Casie Coleman when she was winning at a good clip at WEG. They put all her charges in retention barn and they were still winning.

Then came Rene Allard and they put all his horses in retention also but nothing much came off it either

I don't know if they ever put Lou's horses in retention or not but if they didn't, that is what they should be doing.

You just don't ban someone on hearsay.

Hi Biscuit,

The Dbarn can catch a few things (milkshaking, venom etc), but w/ most designers it has no effect, unfortunately.

[Sea Biscuit]

Hi Biscuit,

The Dbarn can catch a few things (milkshaking, venom etc), but w/ most designers it has no effect, unfortunately.

What we should really be talking about is upgrading and enhancing the testing procedures that we have in place with better funding for the same.

[The Bit]

I'm unfamiliar with much of the back story (except him winning like a machine, having intense scrutiny thrown his way, and ZERO positives in the last five years)...what is this "false ownership" and "fraudulent representation of trainer of record" that you speak of?


There are "questions" regarding ownership, listed trainer etc. regarding Nick Surick, Gilbert Garcia-Herrera, KDM Stables, Jennifer Sabot, Johnny Waite and a few others I'm forgetting I'm sure.

As Lous' stable grew, KDM moved most if not all horses they had with Pena to Surick and they would enter in the same races.

Lou isn't allowed in Delaware so Lightning Lane is operating through Johnny Waite who all of the sudden is/was also winning at 30%+ ... Just like Lou.

Delightful Diva, who has been racing out of her skin for Pena recently is in to go Friday at Yonkers. Owned by KDM Stables. New listed trainer? Nick Surick.

Surick is/was an employee/associate/etc of Pena.

It is a real circus. For every fact there is four questions or rumors swirling around about who is who and who is doing what and with what horses. Already I"ve seen suspicions that the new Robinson fellow at the Meadows claiming horses for Lightning Lane is Pena but the Meadows has asked him not to put his name down as owner/trainer. Make sense considering what Lou has said in these articles. Isn't hard to put two and two together.

[LottaKash]

There are "questions" regarding ownership, listed trainer etc. regarding Nick Surick, Gilbert Garcia-Herrera, KDM Stables, Jennifer Sabot, Johnny Waite and a few others I'm forgetting I'm sure.

As Lous' stable grew, KDM moved most if not all horses they had with Pena to Surick and they would enter in the same races.

It is a real circus. For every fact there is four questions or rumors swirling around about who is who and who is doing what and with what horses. Already I"ve seen suspicions that the new Robinson fellow at the Meadows claiming horses for Lightning Lane is Pena but the Meadows has asked him not to put his name down as owner/trainer. Make sense considering what Lou has said in these articles. Isn't hard to put two and two together.

Bit, thx for the mentioning of these people that have a ling to Pena, I will watch them diligently......haha..That is if Seabiscuit lets me...:jump:

best,

[Sea Biscuit]

That is if Seabiscuit lets me...:jump:

best,

The floor is yours John. Haha

I will sit back and relax and read your valued comments.

[MrBaseball]

Question for "people in the know" :) (Sonny P, Pandy, etc.) regarding Lou Pena, how did he go from Sacramento (arguably a "D" track) to the mecca of harness racing (The Big "M", Yonkers, Chester, etc.). How did he hook up with the infamous Lightning Stable? Somewhere I read that he took over Ross Croghan's owner's when Croghan was suspended?? I know there is a connection dating back to Croghan's California years. Why was Lou chosen? :confused: He was not an exceptional trainer in California and amongst "bettor's in the know...wiseguys" he was considered a "juice trainer". I remember when he started out as a young guy, he was caught tubing a horse at Garden State.

[sonnyp]

i was gone when he showed up in new jersey. don't know the history of what brought him there from cali.

[Hanover1]

And you know this for a fact how, exactly?


Anyone who has spent time in this business will back up Sonny on this one. Hundreds of us in fact. Perhaps you should contact Yonkers Raceway, or the other tracks that have banned him for further insight.....no positives yet they ban him for fun? Please.....they see the handwriting on the wall as clearly as the rest of us do. He is as clean as Roger Clemens, Mark Maguire, Lance Johnson, and anybody else tested that came up clean.....The drug ITPP cannot be detected in a horse, as a few other things cannot, yet they ARE being used. I have info suggesting current flavor of the day is given 3 days out, hence ineffective detention barn. You admitted you were unfamiliar with the back story. Little digging brings all this to light, its been a topic for 2 years now, and a big one, not some rumor or innuendo.

[PaceAdvantage]

The drug ITPP cannot be detected in a horse, as a few other things cannot, yet they ARE being used.If it can't be detected, then how do you know?

Why can't it be detected?

[DeanT]

If it can't be detected, then how do you know?

Why can't it be detected?

No test.

There was no test in the early to mid 2000's for EPO/Aranesp either. Then they developed one. The bad guys then move onto something else, or fall off the map.

[PaceAdvantage]

But if you and Hanover and a bunch of people have a strong suspicion, how the hell difficult, in this day and age, can it be to come up with a test? YA'LL CLAIM TO KNOW exactly what he's allegedly using...how freakin' hard can it be to test for it?

What it all comes down to, once again, is a lack of a central and powerful oversight committee that has the RESOURCES to develop proper tests in a timely manner...and absent that, they just kick people off of grounds without any proof of wrongdoing....

No wonder so many people believe this sport is ruled by the mob and filled with cheats and thieves (and I include t-bred racing in this as well).

[DeanT]

But if you and Hanover and a bunch of people have a strong suspicion, how the hell difficult, in this day and age, can it be to come up with a test? YA'LL CLAIM TO KNOW exactly what he's allegedly using...how freakin' hard can it be to test for it?

What it all comes down to, once again, is a lack of a central and powerful oversight committee that has the RESOURCES to develop proper tests in a timely manner...and absent that, they just kick people off of grounds without any proof of wrongdoing....

No wonder so many people believe this sport is ruled by the mob and filled with cheats and thieves (and I include t-bred racing in this as well).

It's been in the news for ITPP. It costs cash and the Racing and Med consortium has little, and (in NY etc) funding is being cut for such things (which is odd, b/c it's a perfect use for slot money, imo)

http://www.drf.com/news/little-money-would-go-long-way-toward-catching-those-using-illegal-drugs

I don't have any answers Pace, this business is what it is.

[Hanover1]

But if you and Hanover and a bunch of people have a strong suspicion, how the hell difficult, in this day and age, can it be to come up with a test? YA'LL CLAIM TO KNOW exactly what he's allegedly using...how freakin' hard can it be to test for it?

What it all comes down to, once again, is a lack of a central and powerful oversight committee that has the RESOURCES to develop proper tests in a timely manner...and absent that, they just kick people off of grounds without any proof of wrongdoing....

No wonder so many people believe this sport is ruled by the mob and filled with cheats and thieves (and I include t-bred racing in this as well).


I agree the perceptions of the sport suffers when we cannot police our own. Been a story for awhile now on both sides of the pond. Word gets around regarding the latest cocktails going around, and they do know quite a bit about ITPP, but the testing required to detect the metabolite requires (according to latest study) at least 100k to revamp existing central facilities that are used (not counting the labs on site of every racetrack). Nobody wants to pony up the money, and I find it strange as anyone else regarding this matter. 100k is pocket change to squash the amouint abuse allegedly going on. Yet as soon as this drug gets zeroedin on, its on to another flavor, and some Danish (in this case French) chemist will make a small fortune selling to anyone willing to pay for shipments. Alot of racing for 4k purses will attract this action. Lou Pena has such a background.......

[PaceAdvantage]

Oh my God!!!! Not the insurmountable princely sum of $100,000.

This bad joke just got infinitely worse...

[sonnyp]

There are "questions" regarding ownership, listed trainer etc. regarding Nick Surick, Gilbert Garcia-Herrera, KDM Stables, Jennifer Sabot, Johnny Waite and a few others I'm forgetting I'm sure.

As Lous' stable grew, KDM moved most if not all horses they had with Pena to Surick and they would enter in the same races.

Lou isn't allowed in Delaware so Lightning Lane is operating through Johnny Waite who all of the sudden is/was also winning at 30%+ ... Just like Lou.

Delightful Diva, who has been racing out of her skin for Pena recently is in to go Friday at Yonkers. Owned by KDM Stables. New listed trainer? Nick Surick.

Surick is/was an employee/associate/etc of Pena.

It is a real circus. For every fact there is four questions or rumors swirling around about who is who and who is doing what and with what horses. Already I"ve seen suspicions that the new Robinson fellow at the Meadows claiming horses for Lightning Lane is Pena but the Meadows has asked him not to put his name down as owner/trainer. Make sense considering what Lou has said in these articles. Isn't hard to put two and two together.



rumor has it that delightful diva is now in nick surik stable. the owners are as much a part of this as anybody else.

like i said, ray charles and stevie wonder could see....

[Canarsie]

DRF article

http://www.drf.com/news/trainer-feeling-sting-being-shut-out

[LottaKash]

Excerpt from that same DRF article, written by Stan Bergstein:

........."Yonkers is not the first track to refuse entries from a top trainer. Thoroughbred tracks have done it as well. But this round, involving a trainer who zoomed from regional competence to national leadership in one remarkable leap and followed with another, will be interesting to watch."...........

I think that part, is what bugs most of us, the most... "zoomed in one remarkable leap"...

While most of us, were never forgetting that he was a convicted crook on the west coast before he came east, and then made this the wonderful leap to "Magical Training Stardom"...

best,

[Sea Biscuit]

Excerpt from that same DRF article, written by Stan Bergstein:

........."Yonkers is not the first track to refuse entries from a top trainer. Thoroughbred tracks have done it as well. But this round, involving a trainer who zoomed from regional competence to national leadership in one remarkable leap and followed with another, will be interesting to watch."...........

I think that part, is what bugs most of us, the most... "zoomed in one remarkable leap"...

While most of us, were never forgetting that he was a convicted crook on the west coast before he came east, and then made this the wonderful leap to "Magical Training Stardom"...

best,

John: What do we do about the other 'crooks' racing currently?

Do we ban them too or look the other way?

[LottaKash]

John: What do we do about the other 'crooks' racing currently?

Do we ban them too or look the other way?

Tough problem Biscuit, it surely is, but these sleazebags have always been around, and I personally don't like it much....Still, they don't hurt me as often enough as this guy did to me, personally.....From a 14%er to a 40%er in one Giant Leap, with so many turnarounds , wake ups, and new record setters, one has to wonder a bit, don't you think?.....Again, if the guy wasn't such a blatant cheater that was caught more times than any, or at least most any, I would have to err on the side of caution here, but, how much is enough already...The guy is a convicted cheater, albeit in another jurisdiction, but a cheater all the same...Does it really matter where his previous gotcha's were ?....His convictions and consequent evictions should have been honored by "all" the other jursdictions, right from the get go.... That is what is really wrong here....

Biscuit, this was not a case in a court of law, so this fairness that you seem to want to give him, isn't in play... This is a racing entity, with an image and, "Other Peoples's Money" on the line to preserve and protect... And the power to do this without a fair trial was given to the tracks, by the government, for just this express purpose, to protect the horseman and the bettors...If he was convicted in a court of law and and not in just some racing jurisdiction, would that have made him less of a felon?....I think not...He is a convicted cheater that was given another chance by other venues, and he blew it, imo...

The guy is skunk...How many strikes befoe you are out ?...I know, no proof.... haha....

So, let's keep vigilant, and continue on in forums like these when we see an irregularity that we cannot honestly rationalize......Industry people do read this forum, and probably more than you think....Let's continue to give them the pulse of our feelings whenever we feel the need to vent a bit...Can't hurt any, I'd say....

best,

[Sea Biscuit]

Tough problem Biscuit, it surely is, but these sleazebags have always been around, and I personally don't like it much....Still, they don't hurt me as often enough as this guy did to me, personally.....From a 14%er to a 40%er in one Giant Leap, with so many turnarounds , wake ups, and new record setters, one has to wonder a bit, don't you think?.....Again, if the guy wasn't such a blatant cheater that was caught more times than any, or at least most any, I would have to err on the side of caution here, but, how much is enough already...The guy is a convicted cheater, albeit in another jurisdiction, but a cheater all the same...Does it really matter where his previous gotcha's were ?....His convictions and consequent evictions should have been honored by "all" the other jursdictions, right from the get go.... That is what is really wrong here....

Biscuit, this was not a case in a court of law, so this fairness that you seem to want to give him, isn't in play... This is a racing entity, with an image and, "Other Peoples's Money" on the line to preserve and protect... And the power to do this without a fair trial was given to the tracks, by the government, for just this express purpose, to protect the horseman and the bettors...If he was convicted in a court of law and and not in just some racing jurisdiction, would that have made him less of a felon?....I think not...He is a convicted cheater that was given another chance by other venues, and he blew it, imo...

The guy is skunk...How many strikes befoe you are out ?...I know, no proof.... haha....

So, let's keep vigilant, and continue on in forums like these when we see an irregularity that we cannot honestly rationalize......Industry people do read this forum, and probably more than you think....Let's continue to give them the pulse of our feelings whenever we feel the need to vent a bit...Can't hurt any, I'd say....

best,

I understand how you feel John.

I once backed and bet a horse rather heavily at 4-1 and my horse just got beat at the wire by 1/2 length. This kinda sh-t happens in horse racing and I forgot about my bet. Sometime later it was announced that the horse who beat me had a positive.

You want me to explain in great detail how I felt at that time? I am sure there are many horse racing fans who may have had a similar experience at one point or another in their racing carriers.

At least you can't say the same thing about Pena.

Well he is gone now and the Pena haters can rest easy now.