PDA

View Full Version : PENN.Racing-Sal DeBunda and Mike Jeannot dumb and dumber.


jelly
07-31-2011, 10:02 PM
"We have discussions from time to time whether lower takeout rates will attract bettors," said Sal DeBunda, the president of the Pennsylvania Thoroughbred Horseman's Association, which represents the horsemen at Parx Racing. "To be honest, I have not heard a lot of complaining from our bettors. The payoffs are big enough that the bettors don't really realize what (the takeout) is."


"If the takeout rates get too low, the tracks will lose money on those wagers," Meadows president Mike Jeannot said. "We've lowered them and watched what happens, and there's never been any evidence that lowering the takeout increases the (betting) handle."



Read more: Pa. horse racing: Not a sure bet - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/s_749278.html#ixzz1TjqjJbum


Read more: Pa. horse racing: Not a sure bet - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/s_749278.html#ixzz1TjpuZ9ww

mannyberrios
07-31-2011, 10:13 PM
Wow! 30%takeout, and nobody cares! I don't believe that

cj
07-31-2011, 10:31 PM
With the racing they have at Philly, the handle should be at least double what it is now.

JustRalph
07-31-2011, 10:34 PM
If you are playing in Pa, you are a fool.........

BillW
07-31-2011, 10:34 PM
No one cares that still bets PA. tracks. How about all the horseplayers that don't play there any more? I guess they don't talk to them any more though?

jelly
07-31-2011, 10:39 PM
Are the Pennsylvania Thoroughbred Horseman's Association and the TOC related? :D

Stillriledup
07-31-2011, 11:09 PM
With the racing they have at Philly, the handle should be at least double what it is now.

Exactly. That product is pretty good. All they need to is lower the takeout to normal rates and kick out the cheaters and they'll see massive handle increases.

toussaud
08-01-2011, 12:41 AM
I have not played a race, in the state of Penn, in probably, no exaggeration, 4 years until saturday. back when i first started gambling i would play penn national from time to time at night.

it's nothing i set out to do, i just now somewhat subconsciously skim over parx and Penn when i see the entries in the DRF


by chance a few days ago, i think iwas trying to click presque isle and accidentally clicked penn national, so i'm like okay i'm here let me see what is going on. just so happened to be yesterday and i saw one of my fav horses running, ben's cat. I was like oh wow i think i might try to watch this race/play this race.

so i do my handicapping, come up with ben's cat so i tune into the feed 15 minutes before post, they are at least 20 minutes behind. the feed is dingy and the entire presentation is just pathetic. charles town puts them to utter shame. won't be wagering again. felt real dirty.


I'm as big a takeout guy as the next, but seriously both those tracks I think have bigger problems than takeout. not saying it's not a big problem and not saying it won't help but you could fix the takeout and i would not touch both tracks still with a 10 foot pole. especially penn national.

I don't know if it's something I have concocted for losing money lol or whatever the case may be, and i pretty much believe most, the vast vast majority of racing in America is on the up and up. I just feel that is not the case at those 2 tracks. The only time i even considered playhing either track last year was on christmas eve and i was bored out of my mind and half ass attempted to play parx as it was literary the only track running in america. I just couldn't do it.

Edward DeVere
08-01-2011, 01:11 AM
I am now absolutely convinced of the following two things:

a) Horsemen, as a group, are idiots. For instance, they seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that . . .

b) . . . Most racinos want takeout to be high enough so that betting shrinks and shrinks and shrinks. Then the racinos can make a convincing case to politicos that horse racing is dying and slots purses should be abandoned.

takeout
08-01-2011, 04:46 AM
Are the Pennsylvania Thoroughbred Horseman's Association and the TOC related? :DYou read my mind. :D

BillW
08-01-2011, 04:53 AM
I am now absolutely convinced of the following two things:

a) Horsemen, as a group, are idiots. For instance, they seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that . . .

b) . . . Most racinos want takeout to be high enough so that betting shrinks and shrinks and shrinks. Then the racinos can make a convincing case to politicos that horse racing is dying and slots purses should be abandoned.

Pa. has already made inroads to standalone casinos. They no longer need to be tethered to race tracks.

takeout
08-01-2011, 06:31 AM
Pa. has already made inroads to standalone casinos. They no longer need to be tethered to race tracks.And the plot quickens…

Wingtips
08-01-2011, 10:47 AM
Pa. has already made inroads to standalone casinos. They no longer need to be tethered to race tracks.

I'm a firm believer that Parx horseracing will cease to exist on the horizon. The land is worth too much money to cater to a loss leader. Fully developed, the land is more viable as either a bigger casino, retails stores, office complex, or housing development. Ownership doesn't want racing, and if its a win for the county/state (more skilled jobs, revenue), all it takes is an ammendment to the current state law.

Charli125
08-01-2011, 11:32 AM
"We've lowered them and watched what happens, and there's never been any evidence that lowering the takeout increases the (betting) handle."

I'd love to see an example of this.

toussaud
08-01-2011, 12:34 PM
I'm a firm believer that Parx horseracing will cease to exist on the horizon. The land is worth too much money to cater to a loss leader. Fully developed, the land is more viable as either a bigger casino, retails stores, office complex, or housing development. Ownership doesn't want racing, and if its a win for the county/state (more skilled jobs, revenue), all it takes is an amendment to the current state law.
my hope is that once one of the tracks actually gets put out of business by the casinos, and make no mistake it will happen sooner or later, the rest will wisen up and stop trying to be so Dependant

thaskalos
08-01-2011, 02:15 PM
my hope is that once one of the tracks actually gets put out of business by the casinos, and make no mistake it will happen sooner or later, the rest will wisen up and stop trying to be so Dependant
The race tracks to stop being so "dependent"?

Impossible.

They never saw a handout they didn't like...

Not4Love
08-01-2011, 03:03 PM
I second that opinion.

Valuist
08-01-2011, 04:12 PM
Its funny how we heard how Philly/Parx was going to become a "big player" with the slots money. Has their product improved noticeably? Does anyone other than locals bet their races regularly? I think we know the answers to those questions.

JustRalph
08-01-2011, 04:46 PM
I second that opinion.

We have a second! Motion Carries!! Get the hell out the Pa Pools!!

jelly
08-01-2011, 10:00 PM
Parx pk 6 pool today $315.00 :lol:


Penn National pk 5 Sat $6,689.00 Friday $2,672.00


Sal DeBunda and Mike Jeannot must be very happy with these numbers.

sjk
08-02-2011, 05:52 AM
Its funny how we heard how Philly/Parx was going to become a "big player" with the slots money. Has their product improved noticeably? Does anyone other than locals bet their races regularly? I think we know the answers to those questions.

Philly is one of my favorite tracks and am not a local.

Competitive dirt racing and an easy place to make money in my opinion.

toussaud
08-02-2011, 01:37 PM
the quality of racing, at least at the allowance level form what i see actually is pretty stiff comparatively speaking. you just arne't going to ship a "NY BASED horse" down to parx and just win going away like in the past. they have some race horses down there

i just don't play them

GlenninOhio
08-03-2011, 05:09 PM
I'll just get out of the way now. :eek:

"We have discussions from time to time whether lower takeout rates will attract bettors," said Sal DeBunda, the president of the Pennsylvania Thoroughbred Horseman's Association, which represents the horsemen at Parx Racing. "To be honest, I have not heard a lot of complaining from our bettors. The payoffs are big enough that the bettors don't really realize what (the takeout) is."

Industry experts believe a majority of bettors, especially casual ones, aren't deterred by takeout rates. A trip to the track or off-track facility is more about entertainment, they say. If the trifecta takeout at the big New York tracks is a profit-gouging 26 percent, so be it.

"If you are going to the track trying to make a fortune, find something else," Tufano said. "If you are looking solely to win at gambling, there are better options."



http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/s_749278.html#ixzz1TjqjJbum

toussaud
08-03-2011, 05:31 PM
I'll just get out of the way now. :eek:

"We have discussions from time to time whether lower takeout rates will attract bettors," said Sal DeBunda, the president of the Pennsylvania Thoroughbred Horseman's Association, which represents the horsemen at Parx Racing. "To be honest, I have not heard a lot of complaining from our bettors. The payoffs are big enough that the bettors don't really realize what (the takeout) is."

Industry experts believe a majority of bettors, especially casual ones, aren't deterred by takeout rates. A trip to the track or off-track facility is more about entertainment, they say. If the trifecta takeout at the big New York tracks is a profit-gouging 26 percent, so be it.

"If you are going to the track trying to make a fortune, find something else," Tufano said. "If you are looking solely to win at gambling, there are better options."



http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/s_749278.html#ixzz1TjqjJbum
i got nothing. there is nothing i could possibly ad to this.

lol @ going to tan off-track betting facility as "entertainment". that's when i knew the gig was up

jelly
08-03-2011, 09:22 PM
Tufano said. "If you are looking solely to win at gambling, there are better options."



He's right.

But,do you think the takeout has something to do with that? :bang:

toussaud
08-03-2011, 10:09 PM
so if you think about it his argument/stance is basically "all you people who are playing and hoping to make money are suck anyway, so it doesn't make any difference what rate we charge becuase regardless of what we do you can't win anyway"

wow. i seriously doubt am not going to be going out of my way to bet any money on that circuit, not like i was anyway

davefulche
08-05-2011, 12:43 AM
This is utterly sickening. I actually think PENN would cease to have racing before Parx btw....but anyway I live in PA about 45-50 min from PENN and 90 min from Parx. I want to get these PA racing people in a room and just go off...... The reason this game is dying is because of fools like them. I considered going for a Masters out at Arizona at the Horse Racing Industry School, but decided not to because it seems like the people in the horse racing industry are older or not dedicated to their own game. I mean the marketing of the game is terrible...especially in PA. Other things that are annoying are when I went up for the Governor's Cup is that they ran many races right up against the biggest signal in the country at that time Del Mar. Comments such as go play another game if you really want to win gambling....The way Penn runs things they say go play our slots, go play our tables (btw outside of blackjack the tables are about as criminal as could be...Three Card Poker they created a whole new pay table at PENN that is just terrible) or play poker in our game that features an industry high rake. Basically they give the big FU to everyone, especially the horse player. I am very familiar with the horses trainers jocks and owners at PENN so it is not a product that I think I could just stop playing.....but comments like these make me want to..... We need the young bright minds of the world to come into the industry and revolutionize it....We can keep around the older minds that are willing to listen to change.

skipaway100
08-05-2011, 03:43 AM
The problem is they don't understand how big the market is for large handicappers. They are right about the casual fan not paying much attention to the takeout, but these are $5 win ticket, $1 exacta box players.

Penn National has a huge opportunity. They always have full fields. If they would open the door to serious, deep pocketed handicappers, they could be the kings of night racing.

Canarsie
08-05-2011, 06:48 AM
Call me nuts but if the Pa. tracks could raise the takeout to 50% they would do it in a split second. Then they would go in front of the legislative chambers and state "nobody wants to play horse racing anymore if you change the law we will give you an extra XXX million for education or to balance your budget".

This especially goes for Penn National Gaming only a blind person couldn't read their intentions.

takeout
08-05-2011, 12:58 PM
This especially goes for Penn National Gaming...Amen!

toussaud
08-05-2011, 01:13 PM
The problem is they don't understand how big the market is for large handicappers. They are right about the casual fan not paying much attention to the takeout, but these are $5 win ticket, $1 exacta box players.

Penn National has a huge opportunity. They always have full fields. If they would open the door to serious, deep pocketed handicappers, they could be the kings of night racing.
the thing is, even the small handicapper/weekend warrior/1 day a year guy cares

the only difference is, we actually know the terminology and the math behind it and can clearly define it. The guy who goes to the track once a month for kicks and hits a excta at 26% instead of 20%, just goes broke faster and doesn't spend as much money. he doesn't stay "in the game" as long so to speak.


most people, haven't a clue what breakage is. But, in the long term it effects bottom line, and it keeps bettors in the game longer, so it does matter

horse racings problem is some equate not knowing or not being knowledgeable about a particular subject, to have an excuse to pillage it's clients.

It just goes to show the morals of some of hte poeple we have in the sport. "They don't care, so we are going to just take as much as we can get"

proximity
08-05-2011, 10:34 PM
I am very familiar with the horses trainers jocks and owners at PENN so it is not a product that I think I could just stop playing.....but comments like these make me want to..... .

nobody from penn national was quoted in the article.

proximity
08-05-2011, 10:40 PM
Penn National has a huge opportunity. .

they should cut out the middleman and just give rebates themselves.

of course i don't even think they're giving any comps in their 1-2 room yet, so i doubt that's going to happen. they are just too lazy.

davefulche
08-05-2011, 10:47 PM
Prox what I meant what was.....Is that PENN is the product I like playing in the state. And believe me while no one officially working for PENN was quoted their mindset is just the same.

proximity
08-05-2011, 11:25 PM
Prox what I meant what was.....Is that PENN is the product I like playing in the state. And believe me while no one officially working for PENN was quoted their mindset is just the same.

that is probably true and if you wanted to get your master's degree to make positive changes in pennsylvania racing (or racing anywhere) you were probably right to stop yourself.

soon pen will be going back to a wed-sat schedule and i do think that will be a positive change.