Hello Double Dip!!!

[JustRalph]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43946055/ns/business-us_business/

10 signs the double-dip recession has begun
Many Americans believe that the 2008-2009 downturn never ended

Friday's news on GDP shows the double dip has arrived — an expansion of only 1.3 percent and consumer spending up 0.1 percent in the second quarter. Astonishingly low by any account. The debt ceiling trouble and lack of a longer term resolution to the deficit will make it worse.


more at the link

[PaceAdvantage]

All Bush's fault no doubt... :rolleyes:

[Actor]

All Bush's fault no doubt... :rolleyes:
Absolutely!

[PaceAdvantage]

Absolutely!You don't honestly believe this, do you? How can you?

Life is never that simple.

[Tom]

If I was living in New Orleans, I wopuld be looking out for Bush to release another hurricane....seems he getting spiteful in his retirement.

[mostpost]

All Bush's fault no doubt... :rolleyes:
Not all Bush's fault, but mostly.
Problem #1: He cut taxes. Result; revenues down $34B the first year, an additional $138B the second year and $71B the third year. But of course lower taxes create jobs. Not exactly. During Bush's eight years about one million jobs were created. By comparison 23 million were created during Clinton's two terms.
During Clinton's two terms revenues grew at an average of 8.6% per annum. If we extrapolate through the next eight years and even cut the rate of growth in half or more the last five years we find total surpluses of $2.408T. Actual total deficits under Bush were $2.130T The difference? $4.610T. Near to enough to retire the debt.

Then we have the lack of regulation of the Banking industry which allowed in to create unsound financial instruments such as mortgage backed securities. The Gramm-Leach-Bliley bill was the primary bill in this endeavor, but even the slight protections it afforded were simply not enforced by Bush.

Bush talked a tough game about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, but never pushed any legislation in Congress. The legislation that was introduced was allowed to languish in committee despite the fact that Republicans had majorities in both Houses .

Republicans, starting with Ronald Reagan, continuing through GHW Bush and GW Bush worked feverishly to destroy unions. The result was minimal improvement in wages and working conditions. Lower pay and less jobs caused a decrease in tax contributions on top of the decrease caused by lower rates.

Nafta and similar opened the United States up to cheap goods and unfair competition. This was the major mistake of the Clinton Presidency, But Bush supported it and initiated tax breaks for US companies that moved operations overseas.

Add these all up and it is a damning indictment of George W. Bush. With a little helpfrom some misguided Democrats.

[JustRalph]

You are so predictable it's almost funny, if it weren't so sad

[LottaKash]

I say shove the graphs and Bush debates....and all the he did it shit.

The proof is in the groceries on my table....And, the lines of the unemployed keep getting longer....This is all I need to know, living proof..

Thank you Mr. President O, you have made the needed changes....I now pay more to get less....And, now there are fewer available jobs than ever, since the Big Depression that is......Change has come alright....

best,

[lamboguy]

I say shove the graphs and Bush debates....and all the he did it shit.

The proof is in the groceries on my table....And, the lines of the unemployed keep getting longer....This is all I need to know, living proof..

Thank you Mr. President O, you have made the needed changes....I now pay more to get less....And, now there are fewer available jobs than ever, since the Big Depression that is......Change has come alright....

best,not a bad way to look at things. i look at the price of gold because it can't fool you or lie to you. when bush got elected as president gold was $247 an ounce. he finished his 2 terms and gold went to $1200, a pretty decent jump. so far gold has gone up $400 since obama has been president, not a $1000 yet, but i do suspect that gold will go up during this admistration more than in the bush tenure. that will make obama a worse president than bush in my mind. and remember that obama is an underdog right now to get elected for a second term.

[LottaKash]

Add these all up and it is a damning indictment of George W. Bush. With a little helpfrom some misguided Democrats.

You forgot to mention the GREAT help from the Marxist himself, as he is carrying the torch now.....Your hero !

The rest of your mantra, is blah, blah, blah, and is getting so old......

You continually try to reconcile this new brand of "gangsterism" at it's worst ever, with the old Bush did it crap....Get real.

[Mike at A+]

You are so predictable it's almost funny, if it weren't so sad
Of course he's predictable. As usual, it's all about bottom line and NO MENTION of 9/11 and its effect on the total economic picture during the early Bush years. And during the later Bush years, there's never any mention of the effect on the economy (unemployment in particular) of two Democrat controlled houses. At least Bush would TRY to fix the economy while Obama is doing his best to destroy it.

[Robert Goren]

The result was minimal improvement in wages and working conditions..This great sin of the last 30 years. Until 1980 the average guy knew there was going to be ups and downs but in the long run things were going to better. The average guy on the street today is not much better off than he was under Carter. He got a some more TV channels and a computer, but that is about. It was not only the republicans who are to blame for this, but Clinton as well. Ike and JFK brought hope to the guy working for a wage. Reagan and his successors brought hope to his bosses.

[BlueShoe]

All Bush's fault no doubt... :rolleyes:
One of the libs has already checked in "proving" it, another one should be along shortly "confirming" it by posting charts and graphs that only he can read. They never let go of this one do they? In the 2020 election expect them to still be at it and still blaming Bush.

[Robert Goren]

Of course he's predictable. As usual, it's all about bottom line and NO MENTION of 9/11 and its effect on the total economic picture during the early Bush years. And during the later Bush years, there's never any mention of the effect on the economy (unemployment in particular) of two Democrat controlled houses. At least Bush would TRY to fix the economy while Obama is doing his best to destroy it.I will give this. Things stopped for a while after 9/11. Another big blow to early GWB presidency was the failure of America's Fourth largest company Enron. The really sad thing about the Enron failure was not its actual failure , but the blue print it provided to other companies on how to appear to makig money without really making anything. I have a feeling that blue print is going to be used for a long time. In the end GWB will not be remember for the Iraqi war, but his failure to put in place laws that will prevent future Enron and Lehmann Bros.

[Robert Goren]

One of the libs has already checked in "proving" it, another one should be along shortly "confirming" it by posting charts and graphs that only he can read. They never let go of this one do they? In the 2020 election expect them to still be at it and still blaming Bush.And why not? The republicans blamed Jimmy Carter for 25 years.

[dartman51]

Not all Bush's fault, but mostly.
Problem #1: He cut taxes. Result; revenues down $34B the first year, an additional $138B the second year and $71B the third year. But of course lower taxes create jobs. Not exactly. During Bush's eight years about one million jobs were created. By comparison 23 million were created during Clinton's two terms.
During Clinton's two terms revenues grew at an average of 8.6% per annum. If we extrapolate through the next eight years and even cut the rate of growth in half or more the last five years we find total surpluses of $2.408T. Actual total deficits under Bush were $2.130T The difference? $4.610T. Near to enough to retire the debt.

Then we have the lack of regulation of the Banking industry which allowed in to create unsound financial instruments such as mortgage backed securities. The Gramm-Leach-Bliley bill was the primary bill in this endeavor, but even the slight protections it afforded were simply not enforced by Bush.

Bush talked a tough game about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, but never pushed any legislation in Congress. The legislation that was introduced was allowed to languish in committee despite the fact that Republicans had majorities in both Houses .

Republicans, starting with Ronald Reagan, continuing through GHW Bush and GW Bush worked feverishly to destroy unions. The result was minimal improvement in wages and working conditions. Lower pay and less jobs caused a decrease in tax contributions on top of the decrease caused by lower rates.

Nafta and similar opened the United States up to cheap goods and unfair competition. This was the major mistake of the Clinton Presidency, But Bush supported it and initiated tax breaks for US companies that moved operations overseas.

Add these all up and it is a damning indictment of George W. Bush. With a little helpfrom some misguided Democrats.

Tax cuts which Obama has extended. On MSNBC, just this morning, one of Obama's mouthpieces, stated that he extended the tax cuts to put more money in the poor peoples pockets. That's funny, I thought they were TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH.

The banking deregulation happened in 1999, under Clinton, and NO, Bush did nothing to change that.

McCain and the Repubs warned of the trouble of F & F, but another hero of YOURS, Barney Frank, screamed that there was no problem, and Bush went along with it. Was it a mistake? You damn right it was.

I will concede that Bush's record on deficit spending was not good. The national debt grew at an average of $607 BILLION pr year. That's pathetic.

But, compare that to Obama. If you don't even count 2009,as he had nothing to do with that budget, he is averaging $1.723 TRILLION pr year. Since you like to EXTRAPOLATE, try this. Extrapolate that figure over 8 years(God forbid), and you come up with $13.784 TRILLION in DEFICIT SPENDING. How exactly how are we supposed to survive that. Bottom line is, there is enough blame to go around, but until the Dems quit blaming Bush for EVERYTHING, this country will continue down this road of destruction.

The agreement they came to over the weekend is a JOKE. $2.2 TRILLION in CUTS over the next 10 years, is a drop in the bucket. It does very little to solve our problem.

For what it's worth, I am NOT in favor of RAISING TAX RATES. I AM in favor of closing the TAX LOOP HOLES. :ThmbUp:

[mostpost]

You are so predictable it's almost funny, if it weren't so sad
Predictable, but true. Also predictable is that you will make a comment yet contribute nothing to the discussion.

[BlueShoe]

And why not? The republicans blamed Jimmy Carter for 25 years.
Only that he was the worst president in modern times with the possible exception of FDR. With Obama now firmly in place as all time worst, the old peanut farmer has kind of faded away.

[Robert Goren]

Only that he was the worst president in modern times with the possible exception of FDR. With Obama now firmly in place as all time worst, the old peanut farmer has kind of faded away.I am always amazed how republicans keep forgetting that Nixon was president when they start talking about bad presidents.

[Black Ruby]

This country would be much better off if we'd realize that the politicians and the people that own them are winning if we stay divided. There are a lot of things we could agree on if we'd stop listening to "Repubs this" and "Dems that" kind of things and find some common ground. It keeps us distracted from what's really being done, and our pols and their owners are putting it to the middle class.
I'm not a Tea Party guy, but I don't disagree with all their platform. But if you noticed last year, the evil Koch Brothers and Karl Rove jumped right into the Tea Party to keep it from being a true peoples' movement, so that they could keep control. And one of Rove's organizations is running commercials trying to influence the Ky governor's race. To me, the people who live in each state should decide who their state and national elected officials are going to be, without out-of-state influence.

[dartman51]

I am always amazed how republicans keep forgetting that Nixon was president when they start talking about bad presidents.

Other than his resignation over his involvement in Watergate, What made him a bad President??

Was it his ending of the Vietnam war?? Something you Dems surely loved. Or maybe his ground-breaking visit to China in 1972 that opened diplomatic relations between the 2 countries. No, I got it, it was his initiation of detente and the ABM treaty with Russia. Something else you should have been behind. He also established the EPA, one of Dems favorites. He also ENFORCED DESEGREGATION of Southern schools, something, i'm sure you would agree with. He was re-elected by a landslide in 1972, so just how bad could he have been? :ThmbUp:

[Mike at A+]

This country would be much better off if we'd realize that the politicians and the people that own them are winning if we stay divided. There are a lot of things we could agree on if we'd stop listening to "Repubs this" and "Dems that" kind of things and find some common ground. It keeps us distracted from what's really being done, and our pols and their owners are putting it to the middle class.
I will tell you why there CANNOT be any dialog or "common ground". I place the blame squarely on the left. All one needs to do is examine the rhetoric. The left makes fun of the Tea Party because of the way they look. They're older and mainly white. So for that, they get called "Teabaggers" and other disgusting things. The left commit crimes to get their points across. Usually things like vandalism, assault and other forms of intimidation. The left is unable to listening to opposing views without shouting them down. Ann Coulter couldn't speak at an engagement, nor could one of the founding members of the Patriot Guard. Even the politicians on the left are guilty of acting immaturely and name calling. Alan Grayson and his "die quickly", Harry Reid calling Bush a "loser", Nancy Pelosi with that big f***ing hammer that someone should have shoved up her a**. Then we have incidents like a swastika being etched into someone's lawn with gasoline and a match. We have the illegal trespass into Madison Square Garden during the Republican Convention. We have the flattening of tires on vans that were to bring elderly voters to the polls in 2008. You have the "Kill Bush" signs carried by the far left. The New Black Panther incident that was a slam dunk conviction until Obama and Holder put race above facts.

While some on the right do some dumb things too, they pale in comparison (and in number) to the immaturity, the criminality and the outrageousness of the tactics regularly employed by the left.

If anyone thinks I'm wrong, I will gladly listen to opposing views.

[Robert Goren]

Other than his resignation over his involvement in Watergate, What made him a bad President??

Was it his ending of the Vietnam war?? Something you Dems surely loved. Or maybe his ground-breaking visit to China in 1972 that opened diplomatic relations between the 2 countries. No, I got it, it was his initiation of detente and the ABM treaty with Russia. Something else you should have been behind. He also established the EPA, one of Dems favorites. He also ENFORCED DESEGREGATION of Southern schools, something, i'm sure you would agree with. He was re-elected by a landslide in 1972, so just how bad could he have been? :ThmbUp: You must very young. Watergate hung over this country like nothing else for months. It was not only Nixon, but the involvement of other top government officials. It was amazing to watch this start out as a break in with a few low level crooks and see it climb up the ladder all the way to the president. It was the beginning of dis trust that people have in government today. Until him people might disagree over policy but they trusted government as a whole. We trusted such things as the FBI. We never dreamed that a crooked politician could corrupt it or even want to. Nixon and Watergate changed that. It was not about policy, it was about being a crook.

[dartman51]

You must very young. Watergate hung over this country like nothing else for months. It was not only Nixon, but the involvement of other top government officials. It was amazing to watch this start out as a break in with a few low level crooks and see it climb up the ladder all the way to the president. It was the beginning of dis trust that people have in government today. Until him people might disagree over policy but they trusted government as a whole. We trusted such things as the FBI. We never dreamed that a crooked politician could corrupt it or even want to. Nixon and Watergate changed that. It was not about policy, it was about being a crook.

No, I'm not very young, unless you consider 62, young. I remember it very well. Richard Nixon was not the FIRST crooked politician, nor was he the last. My father was a Democrat, and he hated Nixon. I remember him saying that he could tell when Nixon was lying. His lips were moving. Well that could apply to MOST politicians, and our current President is one of, if not, the worst. :ThmbUp:

[thaskalos]

All Bush's fault no doubt... :rolleyes:
How can it NOT be all Bush's fault?

If it wasn't for GWB...Obama would have never gotten elected president in the first place.

[bigmack]

Predictable, but true. Also predictable is that you will make a comment yet contribute nothing to the discussion.
How rich is that, you calling someone predictable? You NEVER think for yourself. You continue to high step with party line nonsense. Anyone who has read more than 3 of your posts can readily figure your stance on virtually every issue.

You contribute something to the discussion. :lol: Ever get the feeling you's hypnotized?

You're quickly becoming 46Z: Part Deux.

http://www.diviniti.demon.co.uk/Small%20Hypnosis%20Spiral.gif

[ElKabong]

You are so predictable it's almost funny, if it weren't so sad

or "slow" (i have to keep the more emphatic descripts on the mail sorter in check)

[ElKabong]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43946055/ns/business-us_business/

10 signs the double-dip recession has begun
Many Americans believe that the 2008-2009 downturn never ended

Friday's news on GDP shows the double dip has arrived — an expansion of only 1.3 percent and consumer spending up 0.1 percent in the second quarter. Astonishingly low by any account. The debt ceiling trouble and lack of a longer term resolution to the deficit will make it worse.


more at the link

KRLD.com, sunday nights at midnight CDT, or listen to the podcast. The guest is an economist, has insisted we've never made it out of the 2008 recession. This I believe wholeheartedly

[mostpost]

Other than his resignation over his involvement in Watergate, What made him a bad President??

Was it his ending of the Vietnam war?? Something you Dems surely loved. Or maybe his ground-breaking visit to China in 1972 that opened diplomatic relations between the 2 countries. No, I got it, it was his initiation of detente and the ABM treaty with Russia. Something else you should have been behind. He also established the EPA, one of Dems favorites. He also ENFORCED DESEGREGATION of Southern schools, something, i'm sure you would agree with. He was re-elected by a landslide in 1972, so just how bad could he have been? :ThmbUp:
That is a pretty big "other than" The fact is that when compared with Reagan, the two Bushes and the current crop of Tea Party geniuses, Nixon looks really good.
Many of his policies were ones that I could support. I don't think we could say he ended the VietNam war as much as allowed it to end. Nixon did things that Republicans would have crucified Democrats for had they done them.

[mostpost]

or "slow" (i have to keep the more emphatic descripts on the mail sorter in check)

That does cramp your style. I MAY petition PA to give you free rein. All that would do would be to highlight the paucity of your ideas. On second thought, I won't be doing that. Your lack of thought is already abundantly clear.

[NoDayJob]

It's very obvious George Washington and the founding fathers are to blame for
this mess. If they hadn't started our revolution we'd be Canadian citizens and
the whole world wouldn't hate us. Our currency would be the LOONEY! Ain't
dat da trut! :lol:

[Actor]

I am always amazed how republicans keep forgetting that Nixon was president when they start talking about bad presidents.
Nixon was a GREAT president because he cancelled my orders to ship out to Viet Nam. :jump:

[ElKabong]

That does cramp your style. I MAY petition PA to give you free rein. All that would do would be to highlight the paucity of your ideas. On second thought, I won't be doing that. Your lack of thought is already abundantly clear.

Petition all you like, mailman. Just be sure to sort the mail correctly. It's all society asks of you

[Tom]

We ask for so little, and we generally get it.:rolleyes: