Goldikova notches 14th

[gm10]

"RECORD-BREAKING mare Goldikova bagged a 14th win at the highest level with an historic fourth successive victory in the Prix Rothschild.

..

Should the ground come up testing in two weeks time, Head said Goldikova could take in the Prix du Moulin de Longchamp and then have a final trial, like last year, in the Prix de la Foret before a fourth attempt to win the Breeders' Cup Mile.

"

http://www.racingpost.com/news/horse-racing/deauville-france-goldikova-bags-14th-group-1-in-prix-rothschild/893163/top/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdcWZHsQXdA

[classhandicapper]

It's probably a little easier to keep them sound on turf, but it's amazing that she's still on the top of her game. What a woman! ;)

[cj]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/64275/goldikova-makes-history-in-prix-rothschild

jdcWZHsQXdA

[JustRalph]

she just keeps rolling along........ got to love her and the connections.....

[maddog42]

It's probably a little easier to keep them sound on turf, but it's amazing that she's still on the top of her game. What a woman! ;)

Is she the greatest Turf horse in the last 20 years? It sure seems like it.

[Humph]

14 Gr1s is a major achievement and I wouldn't want to take anything away from her , but there are two better than her in Europe at the moment, and one of those - Frankel - may well be significantly better.

Is she the greatest Turf horse in the last 20 years? It sure seems like it.

[OTM Al]

14 Gr1s is a major achievement and I wouldn't want to take anything away from her , but there are two better than her in Europe at the moment, and one of those - Frankel - may well be significantly better.

There's a lot of horses out there right now better than Secretariat as well because he's dead.

[Grits]

Is she the greatest Turf horse in the last 20 years? It sure seems like it.

I'll never forget her groom running down the track as she was coming in the stretch--no doubt, one of the most joyous moments in racing.

Now, he's a part of the Breeders' Cup commercial. What a great thing!

[maddog42]

14 Gr1s is a major achievement and I wouldn't want to take anything away from her , but there are two better than her in Europe at the moment, and one of those - Frankel - may well be significantly better.

I am woefully ignorant of European racing. Perhaps I should have said best turf mare?

[cj]

14 Gr1s is a major achievement and I wouldn't want to take anything away from her , but there are two better than her in Europe at the moment, and one of those - Frankel - may well be significantly better.

Well, she is now a 6 year old mare. You think Frankel would be winning G1s when he is 6 if he was kept in training? About the only way that is happening is if he ships to Delmar where you have to be old to win!

[maddog42]

Well, she is now a 6 year old mare. You think Frankel would be winning G1s when he is 6 if he was kept in training? About the only way that is happening is if he ships to Delmar where you have to be old to win!

If she wins a 4th consecutive Breeders Cup Mile, she will have to be considered
one of the greats. Period. I don't think that will be duplicated in our lifetime. I believe that is fairly likely to happen. I will be rooting for her.

[Cardus]

Goldikova does not need a fourth Breeders' Cup Mile win to gain another level of superlatives. Her wins in Europe, combined with the three big wins here, give her the lofty status she enjoys as the most accomplished filly or mare of this era.

Ouija Board, for her wins and the high level of competition that she faced, make her second for me.

While I realize the level of competition is not the same in Australia, it's hard to look past Makybe Diva's three consecutive Melbourne Cups. It's an enormous, unprecedented, accomplishment. And she copped a Cox Plate along the way.

(And now, Aussie sprinter Black Caviar is rocketing up the chart.)

I might be forgetting another Euro, but after these three, a horse like Zenyatta might be considered.

[OTM Al]

I might be forgetting another Euro, but after these three, a horse like Zenyatta might be considered.

Zarkava was an absolute beast and one of the few that did beat Goldikova, though over 10f. Unfortunately her Arc win was her only shot against males and she was whisked off immediately after. Makaybe Diva was spectacular as well and Ouija Board should have been the first to get 3 BC wins but wasn't all the way back when she ran in her 4yo season. Have a picture of that one on my desktop.

[cj]

Miesque fits as well.

[Cardus]

Zarkava is the one I knew that I had forgotten, and I agree, of course, with Miesque. I had in mind 1990-present, and I should have stated this.

[nearco]

Zarkava was an absolute beast and one of the few that did beat Goldikova, though over 10f. Unfortunately her Arc win was her only shot against males and she was whisked off immediately after.

Actually Zarkava beat Goldi in the French 1000 Guineas over 8f, Goldi's preferred distance. You can see her blowing past Goldi here in the video, at the 3:30 mark. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xom6Jo1xWIc
Beating Goldi over 8f shows how phenomenal a filly Zarkava was.

Then three weeks later she beat Goldi even bigger in the French Oaks at 10.5f. Granted that was farther than Goldi wanted to run.

Besides that she spotted the field about 10 lengths in the Prix Vermeille, her Arc prep, when she sat in the starting gate, only to then blew them away the most amazing turn of foot at the end. Look at the slow mo replay at the end of this video to see her sitting in the gate as the others gallop up the track.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8h62nadtuw

Of course then she went on to win the Arc. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fz0JyuaxmA

It's scary to think what she might have done had she stayed in training. She was out of this world good.

[Humph]

There's a lot of horses out there right now better than Secretariat as well because he's dead.

The difference here being that we actually have evidence to support my original statement - Canford Cliffs beat her fair and square , and if he's better than her then so is Frankel.

[Humph]

Well, she is now a 6 year old mare. You think Frankel would be winning G1s when he is 6 if he was kept in training? About the only way that is happening is if he ships to Delmar where you have to be old to win!

The answer to that is that we'll almost certainly never know . But there is talk of Frankel staying in training at 4 , so he may get a good chance to further his tally.

Comparing their respective careers at this stage , Goldikova had raced 7 times , lost 3 , and had notched one Group1 ; Frankel has now raced 8 times , is unbeaten , with 4 Gr1 wins.

In fairness to Goldikova she was unlucky enough to have had the mighty Zarkava as a contemporary , but Frankel has the feather in his cap of having nailed quality older opposition.

[Seabiscuit@AR]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeform#Top-rated_Thoroughbreds_on_Flat_Courses

The above link gives the top rated Timeform flat horses of all time. It seems to go back to the 1940s

One of the interesting things is that if you click on the top 20 or so UK or European horses of the last 60 or 70 years none of them has made it to 20 career starts. The highest number of starts is 19 by Daylami. All the top 20 UK & European horses who had 15 or more career starts were born in the 1940s and 1950s except Daylami. So the number of starts for a top UK or European horse is shrinking from a low starting point. Seems that 8, 9, 10 or 11 career starts is all you can expect from a topliner in the UK or Europe these days

Then some of the G1 races have fields of 4 or 5 with only 2 genuine hopes

Goldikova with 24 starts has not had a huge number of starts herself. But it is hard to compare her to other leading UK & European horses who are retired after 9 or 10 starts. The longer your career goes for the more likely you will have a bad season in there

[Humph]

Then some of the G1 races have fields of 4 or 5 with only 2 genuine hopes



One problem is that the top horses over there are, generally, in the hands of a small select group of owners . Take Coolmore for example . At this present time they own Seville , Treasure Beach, St. Nicholas Abbey, Pour Moi and So You Think - in other words , a sizable percentage of Europe's strength in the 10/12 furlong division - but there is little to no chance of them all showing up to race in the same event ..

[OTM Al]

The difference here being that we actually have evidence to support my original statement - Canford Cliffs beat her fair and square , and if he's better than her then so is Frankel.

This is racing, not algebra. The two races you cite were very different in nature so I wouldn't bank on that one. Otherwise you are going to have to claim that Zoffney or whatever his name was in the St James is also better than both Goldikova and Canford Cliffs. It would be a fair statement to say that Frankel may be better now, but better careerwise? He's got a couple years to go, a lot of travelling, and another furlong of stretching out to show that.

[Jasonm921]

One problem is that the top horses over there are, generally, in the hands of a small select group of owners . Take Coolmore for example . At this present time they own Seville , Treasure Beach, St. Nicholas Abbey, Pour Moi and So You Think - in other words , a sizable percentage of Europe's strength in the 10/12 furlong division - but there is little to no chance of them all showing up to race in the same event ..

Very true.

[maddog42]

The difference here being that we actually have evidence to support my original statement - Canford Cliffs beat her fair and square , and if he's better than her then so is Frankel.

There were about 10 horses who beat Secretariat fair and square but that doesn"t make them better. Goldikova lossed a couple of races early in her career
mainly on soft turf, which she doesn't seem to like. She got beat by Canford by 3/4 length, while her jockey got fined for being 2 pounds over. At 1 mile she would win more than her fair share against Canford. Frankel is another story.( I just looked over both their records). Another impressive thing is she wins on both sides of the Atlantic. Not many horses ship as well as she does.

[Humph]

This is racing, not algebra. The two races you cite were very different in nature so I wouldn't bank on that one. Otherwise you are going to have to claim that Zoffney or whatever his name was in the St James is also better than both Goldikova and Canford Cliffs. It would be a fair statement to say that Frankel may be better now, but better careerwise? He's got a couple years to go, a lot of travelling, and another furlong of stretching out to show that.

This is drifting away from the original point, that being the question of whether Goldi is the best turf horse over the last 20 years or not. Dress it up how you will , but she isn't even the greatest running at present , never mind over the last 2 decades.

[OTM Al]

This is drifting away from the original point, that being the question of whether Goldi is the best turf horse over the last 20 years or not. Dress it up how you will , but she isn't even the greatest running at present , never mind over the last 2 decades.

And in 1980 Secretariat was not the best horse (according to this criteria) because he couldn't beat the best horses anymore (as he was 10 and had been at stud for 7 years) so he couldn't have been the best in the last 20 years because some other horse was number one that year by your logic. She's six, he's three. She has 14 Gr1s, he has 4. He has not tried to run out of his comfort zone, she has. Yes, maybe he can beat her now, but that doesn't say anything about a historic statement. Difference between a point in time and a period of time

[OTM Al]

And just to be clear I'm not saying she is the best in the last 20 years, just that your methodology is flawed.