Harness - anyone play seriously? Computer programs?

[jdhanover]

Fair amount of talk here on PA about Thoroughbred computer programs and guys playing t'breds for profit (and big $). Is the same true for harness racing? Which programs are considered the top ones? How expensive? How expensive are the daily files to download?

Rebates seem to be high at most harness tracks (albeit pools are smaller) hence an interest in whether or not there are 'big $' players playing this game for profit?

More a curiosity than anything else at this point (still trying to turn the corner to the positive side on t'breds and confident I will eventually get there; recently started using HSH software), but could add harness down the road.

PS Have bet harness for 30+ years...back to the days of going to Roosevelt Raceway with my Dad

Thanks!

[baconswitchfarm]

I bet harness for a living. I know 4 or 5 other guys who do as well . I don't know anyone who uses a computer program in their process. Of course none of us give out picks or sell tips.

[PaceAdvantage]

Of course none of us give out picks or sell tips.What does that have to do with anything?

[Hanover1]

What does that have to do with anything?

In other words, don't ask?

[PaceAdvantage]

In other words, don't ask?This isn't your area of expertise, so trolling here wouldn't be your forte at the moment...move along...

[Tic-Tac]

I play probably bigger than most there are many computer programs various sites check the ones that hAve the same pg's for the tbreads

[Ray2000]

How expensive are the daily files to download?


Trackmaster sells the racetrack program data in computer format for $1.50 per card or
Any/All tracks, every day for about $40/month.

They also have info on various computer programs for Harness that uses their data.

http://www.trackmaster.com/retail/3rdparty.htm#harness

[pandy]

I win consistently betting harness and my picks that I sell show a flat bet profit but my betting is much different than it was years ago. Back in the glory days I bet mostly longshots in harness racing, now I bet any horse that I feel I can get an edge with even if it's even money. Industry wide the favorites win an average of 40%. I use my Diamond System computer handicapping program but also look at the pps.

Generally speaking, there are less professional and/or big harness bettors now than there used to be, many of them switched to the flats, probably because of the high percentage of winning favorites and also the speed bias.

My ROI is higher at the flats now because I can get better value but I still love harness racing. My free Meadowlands picks are at www.ustrotting.com on the handicapping page, as are my free Pick 4 plays, which are not in the black at the Meadowlands after I hit my third Pick 4 in the last two weeks last night.

I'm not a professional harness bettors, and quite frankly, it's difficult because the pools are so low that you can't make big enough bets at most tracks. I'm satisfied grinding out a steady profit while I watch and enjoy the racing.

[lamboguy]

I bet harness for a living. I know 4 or 5 other guys who do as well . I don't know anyone who uses a computer program in their process. Of course none of us give out picks or sell tips.its wonderful to hear that someone makes a living at the harness game right from your house.

[pandy]

I win consistently betting harness and my picks that I sell show a flat bet profit but my betting is much different than it was years ago. Back in the glory days I bet mostly longshots in harness racing, now I bet any horse that I feel I can get an edge with even if it's even money. Industry wide the favorites win an average of 40%. I use my Diamond System computer handicapping program but also look at the pps.

Generally speaking, there are less professional and/or big harness bettors now than there used to be, many of them switched to the flats, probably because of the high percentage of winning favorites and also the speed bias.

My ROI is higher at the flats now because I can get better value but I still love harness racing. My free Meadowlands picks are at www.ustrotting.com on the handicapping page, as are my free Pick 4 plays, which are not in the black at the Meadowlands after I hit my third Pick 4 in the last two weeks last night.

I'm not a professional harness bettors, and quite frankly, it's difficult because the pools are so low that you can't make big enough bets at most tracks. I'm satisfied grinding out a steady profit while I watch and enjoy the racing.

I meant to say that my free Pick 4 picks are NOW in the black.

[teddy]

I ONLY PLAY CARRYOVER PICK 5 AND THAT SEEMS TO BE MY EDGE. 10% REBATE AND BASICALLY NO TAKEOUT IF U FACTOR IN THE CARRYOVER... ONLY WAY I KNOW TO WIN. THEN IM PUSHING $400 INTO A PICK 5 THAT HAS A CARRYOVER OF 1500. RISKY BUT ONE 10-1 AND YOU GET THE POOL. OR CLOSE TO IT. 5 CHALKS AND YOU LOSE YOUR AZZ

[baconswitchfarm]

What does that have to do with anything?



I just meant that with the pool sizes this is not common practice. If I came on here and gave out a horse I liked at Delmar and a bunch of people bet it , it would be no big deal. If i gave out a horse at Pompano and everyone bet 2.00 on it , it would go off 1/9. Except for the big three or four tracks , all the rest have tiny pools. When you are betting five million a year into pools this small , you better keep your edges to yourself.

[jdhanover]

Appreciate all the info gents. Very helpful. Thx!

[Charles54]

I just meant that with the pool sizes this is not common practice. If I came on here and gave out a horse I liked at Delmar and a bunch of people bet it , it would be no big deal. If i gave out a horse at Pompano and everyone bet 2.00 on it , it would go off 1/9. Except for the big three or four tracks , all the rest have tiny pools. When you are betting five million a year into pools this small , you better keep your edges to yourself.
Hi jdhanover. Baconswitchfarm is right on the money. If you want any chance of winning, you have to think for yourself. That's the whole point of the game. Handicapping is supposed to be an intellectual exercise.

I was losing money when my picks coincided with the ones Ray gives out here. Now, I take the time to check and pass on everything he posts. I have always used Pandy's free Meadowlands picks as a negative variable. You can lose less following "experts", but you will never win that way.

With the pools so shrinking and the competitiveness of the game basically drying up, betting against other pros (including free computer picks) is suicide. Realistically, at this point, I wouldn't suggest spending much time or money learning to handicap harness. Soon the game will be completely dead.

[LottaKash]

With the pools so shrinking and the competitiveness of the game basically drying up, betting against other pros (including free computer picks) is suicide. Realistically, at this point, I wouldn't suggest spending much time or money learning to handicap harness. Soon the game will be completely dead.

Charles54, I died twice yesterday on my only 2-plays of the day....One "death" paid $18.00 at The Meadows, but the other "cadaver" was only a $7.60 stiff-job,at Mohawk Raceway....Perhaps that is because I already spent the time and the money learning the game, before it was too late....

P.S.....I am just trying to be funny... :D

best,

[pandy]

There are still overlays in harness racing so all this is a moot point. If you are a good handicapper and bet overlays you can win, as long as you don't bet too heavy onto one pool and knock the value out of the bet. Yes it's tougher with the small pools but certainly the pools at the Meadowlands, Yonkers, and Northfield, Woodbine/Mohawk, and Balmoral are still big enough.