Today is the big day at del mar

[toussaud]

i could not sleep last night in anticipation for this... the build up, the excitement.. yes it's finally here


HEAD TO HEAD MATCHUP BETTING!


Eddie reed stakes, caracatado v. acclimation, who ya got?

[Igeteven]

i could not sleep last night in anticipation for this... the build up, the excitement.. yes it's finally here


HEAD TO HEAD MATCHUP BETTING!


Eddie reed stakes, caracatado v. acclimation, who ya got?

Give me a break, go put a bet in on Baseball. This is the most stupid bet I have ever seen at a race track.

[Stillriledup]

They say takeout is 10% but its really much higher because they steal the breakage from you.

[cj]

They say takeout is 10% but its really much higher because they steal the breakage from you.

How much higher? Here is an example. Assume there is 70,000 in the pool, 45,100 on Horse A. Horse A wins, so there is 63,000 to return to bettors after the 10% rake. The payoff would be 2.79, but thanks to breakage you get only 2.60. You get only 76% of your "expected" profit.

What if there was zero takeout and breakage? Your return would be $3.10. Instead of $1.04 profit, you get only 60 cents. The track is actually keeping about 45 percent of your profit. This example is pretty extreme, but with only two options it can and will happen more than you would think.

Looking at it from a pure takeout perspective, they kept 10% from all bettors off the top, 20 cents per $2, then another 19 cents per $2 from all winners. Winners basically pay 39 cents per $2 bet, or 19.5%. Good luck with that.

[andymays]

How much higher? Here is an example. Assume there is 70,000 in the pool, 45,100 on Horse A. Horse A wins, so there is 63,000 to return to bettors after the 10% rake. The payoff would be 2.79, but thanks to breakage you get only 2.60. You get only 76% of your "expected" profit.

What if there was zero takeout and breakage? Your return would be $3.10. Instead of $1.04 profit, you get only 60 cents. The track is actually keeping about 45 percent of your profit. This example is pretty extreme, but with only two options it can and will happen more than you would think.

Looking at it from a pure takeout perspective, they kept 10% from all bettors off the top, 20 cents per $2, then another 19 cents per $2 from all winners. Winners basically pay 39 cents per $2 bet, or 19.5%. Good luck with that.

It is a bad bet in my opinion. The law states that they can't go below 10% or they would have and the breakage is a total killer on this type of wager.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

It is a bad bet in my opinion. The law states that they can't go below 10% or they would have and the breakage is a total killer on this type of wager.
The fact the law exists means this bet should never have been offered. If the average payoff on it is $3.20, the average takeout with breakage included is over 17% (which is outrageous for a two outcome game). If the idea is a test on whether Betfair will be accepted with a high takeout, it will prove nothing, unless it attracts loads of money....which I can't see happening.

[andymays]

The fact the law exists means this bet should never have been offered. If the average payoff on it is $3.20, the average takeout with breakage included is over 17% (which is outrageous for a two outcome game). If the idea is a test on whether Betfair will be accepted with a high takeout, it will prove nothing, unless it attracts loads of money....which I can't see happening.

It has nothing to do with Betfair. They were just trying something that they thought fans might like.

Like I said they would have made the bet 5% if they could have and I also talked to them about eliminating breakage.

The tracks are not the problem.

[Robert Fischer]

It has nothing to do with Betfair. They were just trying something that they thought fans might like.

Like I said they would have made the bet 5% if they could have and I also talked to them about eliminating breakage.

The tracks are not the problem.

that sounds legit. What if they wanted to SEED a pool like this?

[andymays]

that sounds legit. What if they wanted to SEED a pool like this?

They are limited in what they can do without the cooperation of the TOC. The tote companies also have a problem with processing bets like this even though you would think they would be able to handle it in this day and age.

[Canarsie]

I can't wager on it here in NJ but NYRA's grand slam wager would be a new option to seed ONLY after the boycott is called off. I really believe Betfair had something to do with the match race. Notice they're showing more of Meadowlands again? One can only assume that a client to run the exchange there will be picked soon.

http://www.nyra.com/Belmont/Handicapping/NYRAWagering/NYRAWagering.shtml

[JeremyJet]

The pool was $31,000 for the head-to-head wager.

The winner paid $4.80, but what did CARACORTADO go off at?

[toussaud]

The pool was $31,000 for the head-to-head wager.

The winner paid $4.80, but what did CARACORTADO go off at?


I mean, that's pretty easy money. no way caracortado was not going to not beat acclimation IMHO. 4.80 isn't half bad for that.

[Robert Fischer]

The pool was $31,000 for the head-to-head wager.

The winner paid $4.80, but what did CARACORTADO go off at?

not a great payout when considering that CARAC was 1.5-1 and the winner of this wager ACC was 3.2-1.

Unless you REALLY hated Caracortado and felt very optimistic about Acclimation...

some will say that if you LOVED Acclimation and had just bet him to win, you would've got back $8.40. I don't think that is the point here, given the dynamics of a head to head wager. But it does get more consideration given that these were 2 of the top 4 favorites and that Caracortado was actually THE favorite.

To be honest, nothing really paid well in that race, even with the fav running 3rd.

to add further food for thought - Acclimation paid $4 to place.

any thoughts??:confused:

CJ - do you mind showing us the "pure takeout "

[Robert Fischer]

I mean, that's pretty easy money. no way caracortado was not going to not beat acclimation IMHO. 4.80 isn't half bad for that.

acclimation wired the field. Caracortado finished 3rd.

[toussaud]

acclimation wired the field. Caracortado finished 3rd.
oh lol.

[Robert Fischer]

oh lol.

i wanted to look at the bet, but I didn't see it being offered on xpressbet...

[JeremyJet]

not a great payout when considering that CARAC was 1.5-1 and the winner of this wager ACC was 3.2-1.

Unless you REALLY hated Caracortado and felt very optimistic about Acclimation...

some will say that if you LOVED Acclimation and had just bet him to win, you would've got back $8.40. I don't think that is the point here, given the dynamics of a head to head wager. But it does get more consideration given that these were 2 of the top 4 favorites and that Caracortado was actually THE favorite.

To be honest, nothing really paid well in that race, even with the fav running 3rd.

to add further food for thought - Acclimation paid $4 to place.

any thoughts??:confused:

CJ - do you mind showing us the "pure takeout "

I don't know, I had them both at EVEN money in the head-2-head wager, and both 7/2 in the win pool. The only edge I had was in the head-2-head wager.

[Stillriledup]

I don't know, I had them both at EVEN money in the head-2-head wager, and both 7/2 in the win pool. The only edge I had was in the head-2-head wager.

They SAY the takeout is 10% but with the breakage, it works out to much more. On occasion, a horse will be paying 3.19 but you'll only get 3 dollars. That's a big 'hit', especially if you're betting a couple grand. If someone bets 2k to win, you lose 190 dollars on breakage.

They should have the head to head bet on the first race of the day.....the only thing i can see that a bettor would use H2H for is to see if its his lucky day or not. If you can't pick the winner of a 2 horse race, you ought to fold up the form and go out and enjoy life and the summer, that's the 'sign' that its not your day.