Don't drink the water!!!!

[Hanover1]

The lawyers for the connections of Crys Dream claim that there is "no way" the trainer is responsible for the Class2 violation resulting in a 90 day suspension for the filly. They claim that it must have come from the local water supply, and plan to have it tested for the metabolite responsible for the positive.
After NJ rejected an overnite entry in an attempt to uphold the Canadien ruling, the owners saw fit to petition the Courts. Taken all the way to the Supreme Court, the judges issued a stay, wich in effect, allows the filly to compete once again, in NJ at least. This would include the Oaks, or the Hambo, wich will be decided on next week.
Here is yet another glaring example of what is wrong with horseracing. Horsemen and owners skirting the central issue here, and continuing to compete, despite the consequenses for the positive. Tough to blame horsemen for this, when the Supreme Court itself is allowing this to occur.
And we wonder what we can do to bolster the sports image? No wonder folks are tired of drinking this type of water......

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Wouldn't every horse that drank that water have a positive test when racing? Seems to me that argument should not of held up in court...my best guess is that the Commission's lawyers are hired by relatives in the commission. A fresh bright law graduate who just passed the bar could of beaten that logic...

[LottaKash]

.
Ummmhh !....Where is "that" water, and what is in it ?....

I want some too ....:jump:

best,

[LottaKash]

.

How about this for an "Angle" ? ....."First-Time, Local Water".....

best,

[Hanover1]

Retort would be to the effect that the horse drank to much.....

[Pacingguy]

Appeals unfortunately are part of the game. I am sure the runners have their share of court cases.

What I am upset about is the grounds they are using. Okay, lack of due process. The common excuse; usually that gets a stay from a lower court. My problem comes with the claim New Jersey can not honor a foreign suspension.

Well, WTF is that? What are we going to have; drivers with two licenses. Get suspended in Canada and go race in New York? Get suspended for racing fixing in one country and go race in the other? Or are we going to come to the point where a citizen of one country will not be allowed to race in another; that's driver, trainer and owner? Honoring another's suspension has been a cornerstone of this sport for years (yes, some states won't suspend for certain infractions). These owners are trying to throw the whole sport into turmoil.

Great, lets say Crys Dream qualifies for the Hambo or Oaks and at trial the state wins and the horse is disqualified? Someone else lost a chance to race in the Hambo/Oaks.

[Hanover1]

Appeals unfortunately are part of the game. I am sure the runners have their share of court cases.

What I am upset about is the grounds they are using. Okay, lack of due process. The common excuse; usually that gets a stay from a lower court. My problem comes with the claim New Jersey can not honor a foreign suspension.

Well, WTF is that? What are we going to have; drivers with two licenses. Get suspended in Canada and go race in New York? Get suspended for racing fixing in one country and go race in the other? Or are we going to come to the point where a citizen of one country will not be allowed to race in another; that's driver, trainer and owner? Honoring another's suspension has been a cornerstone of this sport for years (yes, some states won't suspend for certain infractions). These owners are trying to throw the whole sport into turmoil.

Great, lets say Crys Dream qualifies for the Hambo or Oaks and at trial the state wins and the horse is disqualified? Someone else lost a chance to race in the Hambo/Oaks.


:ThmbUp:

[GregReinhart]

Appeals unfortunately are part of the game. I am sure the runners have their share of court cases.

What I am upset about is the grounds they are using. Okay, lack of due process. The common excuse; usually that gets a stay from a lower court. My problem comes with the claim New Jersey can not honor a foreign suspension.

Well, WTF is that? What are we going to have; drivers with two licenses. Get suspended in Canada and go race in New York? Get suspended for racing fixing in one country and go race in the other? Or are we going to come to the point where a citizen of one country will not be allowed to race in another; that's driver, trainer and owner? Honoring another's suspension has been a cornerstone of this sport for years (yes, some states won't suspend for certain infractions). These owners are trying to throw the whole sport into turmoil.

Great, lets say Crys Dream qualifies for the Hambo or Oaks and at trial the state wins and the horse is disqualified? Someone else lost a chance to race in the Hambo/Oaks.

It's the absolute exact same argument that the Bulletproof people used to get to race in the States while suspended in Ontario...this is absolutely nothing new. And yes, you already have horsemen who have done exactly what you entailed there, ask Jason Brewer.

[Hanover1]

[QUOTE=GregReinhart]It's the absolute exact same argument that the Bulletproof people used to get to race in the States while suspended in Ontario...this is absolutely nothing new. And yes, you already have horsemen who have done exactly what you entailed there, ask Jason Brewer.[/QUOTE


It is nothing new and everything wrong....

[LottaKash]

Crys Dream is scheduled to race at the Big-M on Sat 7/30, 3rd race.....Rumor has it, her connections are bringing in a 500 gal water truck filled with her favorite thirst quencher, so that she can keep in her current form-cycle, and win her elim for the Hanbletonian Oaks Final....:jump: :jump: :jump:

best,

[Hanover1]

Crys Dream is scheduled to race at the Big-M on Sat 7/30, 3rd race.....Rumor has it, her connections are bringing in a 500 gal water truck filled with her favorite thirst quencher, so that she can keep in her current form-cycle, and win her elim for the Hanbletonian Oaks Final....:jump: :jump: :jump:

best,


Since it cannot be determined if the Class2 was a constant in her "form cycle" would it not stand to reason that value lies in betting against a potential 1-9 shot? The race is either a pass or against imo......

[LottaKash]

Since it cannot be determined if the Class2 was a constant in her "form cycle" would it not stand to reason that value lies in betting against a potential 1-9 shot? The race is either a pass or against imo......

Hanover, I am not sure about any of that, but I've gotta get a plane ticket to Toronto....I am need some of that "H2O"....Pronto !! :jump:

best,

[GregReinhart]

Since it cannot be determined if the Class2 was a constant in her "form cycle" would it not stand to reason that value lies in betting against a potential 1-9 shot? The race is either a pass or against imo......

The only thing that might get her beat tonight is the layoff. Probably the biggest shame of the positive is that now comments like these are being made and she'll never get the recognition as a truly great horse that she deserves.

[Hanover1]

The only thing that might get her beat tonight is the layoff. Probably the biggest shame of the positive is that now comments like these are being made and she'll never get the recognition as a truly great horse that she deserves.


So the comments are undeserved? The drug in question was/is a mood altering substance. Not serious enough to consider as an edge? Not an attack here Greg, but I just wonder how a horse gets defined as great when needing this stuff to compete. We cannot speculate and be correct as to intent here, but we can comment that the horse tested positive for a mood altering drug, was banned for 90 days, and subsequently cleared to race by NJ, clearly negating any Canadien ruling and doing nothing to enforce existing drug policy anywhere. The connections have defined her legacy for her, and if she gets beat real soon, expect more against her, sadly. She is a great looking filly, and its a shame, but folks need to examine why we have such a tough time cleaning up a tarnished image our sport has, and this is a prime example.

[GregReinhart]

So the comments are undeserved? The drug in question was/is a mood altering substance. Not serious enough to consider as an edge? Not an attack here Greg, but I just wonder how a horse gets defined as great when needing this stuff to compete. We cannot speculate and be correct as to intent here, but we can comment that the horse tested positive for a mood altering drug, was banned for 90 days, and subsequently cleared to race by NJ, clearly negating any Canadien ruling and doing nothing to enforce existing drug policy anywhere. The connections have defined her legacy for her, and if she gets beat real soon, expect more against her, sadly. She is a great looking filly, and its a shame, but folks need to examine why we have such a tough time cleaning up a tarnished image our sport has, and this is a prime example.

I don't think the comments are undeserved but I also don't think she "needs" anything to compete...maybe I'm naive, but she's raced in nothing but stakes as a 2yo and 3yo except for one overnight event at the start of the year, and has won every one of those races except for one, so if she was "on" something, it would have come up because she has been tested so often, especially for a prescription medication, which I believe are easier to detect than something like ITPP.

This trainer is not a notorious guy or anything like that either, and Jean-Pierre Dubois plays a major role in the stable and he's competed on an international stage for decades in a clean manner, developing a reputation as an elite horseman.

I am waiting to see after the hearings in Ontario just how much of the drug was in her system and if the connections can somehow prove contamination, which is what they believe it was.

[Hanover1]

I don't think the comments are undeserved but I also don't think she "needs" anything to compete...maybe I'm naive, but she's raced in nothing but stakes as a 2yo and 3yo except for one overnight event at the start of the year, and has won every one of those races except for one, so if she was "on" something, it would have come up because she has been tested so often, especially for a prescription medication, which I believe are easier to detect than something like ITPP.

This trainer is not a notorious guy or anything like that either, and Jean-Pierre Dubois plays a major role in the stable and he's competed on an international stage for decades in a clean manner, developing a reputation as an elite horseman.

I am waiting to see after the hearings in Ontario just how much of the drug was in her system and if the connections can somehow prove contamination, which is what they believe it was.


I wish them luck with this.......gonna be a tough road unless others decide to disregard it as well.

[GregReinhart]

In the interest of full disclosure for those that don't know me, I'm friends with her driver so I do stick up for her and I will be rooting for her the next 2 weeks. I don't blame anybody for questioning her after this whole deal, though, and believe me, nobody outside of her immediate connections is more disappointed and upset about this ordeal than I am.

[Hanover1]

In the interest of full disclosure for those that don't know me, I'm friends with her driver so I do stick up for her and I will be rooting for her the next 2 weeks. I don't blame anybody for questioning her after this whole deal, though, and believe me, nobody outside of her immediate connections is more disappointed and upset about this ordeal than I am.


The filly appears to have enough trot get the job done in the Oaks. Lets hope she stays flat and relaxed.....

[Hanover1]

Since it cannot be determined if the Class2 was a constant in her "form cycle" would it not stand to reason that value lies in betting against a potential 1-9 shot? The race is either a pass or against imo......

Was it the water? Beaten favorite. Winner pays 50.....

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Think what we saw was not the water but what happens when a horse goes at it with some time off and has to race the very next week with a stronger field. IN other words, she was primed to bounce. She probably was a little sore after not racing all those weeks. Now, they go against the best fillies again and she came up a short. Would not count her out by the time they go north for the Breeders. I wish they had a future wager on that race right now as I would unload on her.

[Hanover1]

Think what we saw was not the water but what happens when a horse goes at it with some time off and has to race the very next week with a stronger field. IN other words, she was primed to bounce. She probably was a little sore after not racing all those weeks. Now, they go against the best fillies again and she came up a short. Would not count her out by the time they go north for the Breeders. I wish they had a future wager on that race right now as I would unload on her.

Good luck with that.

[Hanover1]

As if her defeat in the Oaks were not enough, now the connections claim in suit that since it took so long for NJ and specific people, to decide what to do, the filly was denied the opportunity to stay fit by not being able to start in 43 days prior to getting permission to tour the M1 oval. In other words, they concede the filly was short, and blame it on NJ for taking so long, depriving her of a start over the oval prior to the event. They now want punitive and compensory damages as a result. Meanwhile her purse winnings have been held up as well, pending outcome of events. BTW, was beaten yesterday by her stablemate (and another entrant) Sue them as well? What a disgrace. Stay tuned.....

[LottaKash]

Once and for all, I would sincerely like to see a "governing body" that would encompass and oversee the rules for "all of harness racing" in North America....We wouldn't have this problem if this were so....The decision would then stand, regardless of whether it was N. or S. of the border.......Or even other states as well....It would be good for racing, I think....:jump:

Harness Racing is in desperate need of something to put resposibility back into the horse racing equation....Right now, as is, the sport is in dire-staits, with all the drugging and continued allowance of convicted cheaters to operate in other jurisdictions...

best,