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andicap
11-14-2003, 01:54 PM
Using just the charts and a pen and notebook I have noticed the following trainer/shipper/layoff trends in NY the last few weeks.

My question: Is this information valuable on its own. I have only noticed patterns that are unusual. For example, if I saw Dutrow's lost several odds-on races lately, that means it was an out-of-charactor pattern.

I'm curious as to whether the hour a week I spend pouring over the NY charts in Simul Weekly and making these notes is worthwhile without having to keep a database.

These are not all the patterns, but some highlights:
----------------
Check out how often Mike Luzzi has been on losing low=priced horses in the past couple of weeks... generally 8-5 and under
I count six since 10/29, two for Levine, two for Lake. Others who have more also have more winners.

Most of pletcher's losers at 8-5 and under are in maiden races. Recently he has had several layoff horses (over 45 days) lose at 4-1 and under.

Allen Jerkins fails a lot at odds-on. but those horses often run 2nd. Poor racing luck.

Dutrow last four short ones last week -- much more than usual, but three were all good tracks or turf. none were off more than 31 days. (a sign of his stable tiring? -- he does really well with fresh horses). His layoff horses continue to hit, usually at short odds, but he has a 5-1 and 15-1 winner in the last 4 weeks, 53d and 5 1/2months, both on the turf with decent class horses.

Levine and Iwiniski layoff horses have disappointed twice recently at short odds.

LaBocetta is hot recently with layoff horses, 4-1 and 3-1, Arroyo up, on the lead.

On the shipper front, well-bet Delaware shippers are dangerous -- flat bet profit at 4-1 and under for past 2 weeks.Theory: AQU competition is weaker so trainers from Grade B tracks come north for higher purses, easier pickings.

But MED shippers are overbet. nine have lost at 4-1 and under in last two weeks with only 1 winner. (There was a 14-1 shot in a stakes race)

McLaughlin shippers bet to 4-1 or below are well meant. No a single loser in the past 7 weeks and three winners at 4-1, 3-1 and 5-2.

Preciado has an 8-1 and 14-1 winner shipping from NJ this fall, both back within 3 weeks or so. None have lost at 4-1 or under.

Since Sept. 17 these tracks have provided not a single winning shipper
-- Suffolk
-- Calder
-- Philly
-- CT

FL horses are 2-23, but under 4-1, they are 2-3, winning at 2-1 with 2 yr old colt NYB stakes race and back in Sept5. at 5-2 with a 2yr old filly maiden race. Both trained by D'Allesandro, back within about 4 weeks.

brdman12
11-14-2003, 02:15 PM
Very interesting. Isn't Bruce Levine's strength racing recent claims, especially shippers from California?

Dan Montilion
11-14-2003, 02:20 PM
Andicap

In my opinion regardless of the method, be it pencil behind the ear or computerized the patterns that you have uncovered are well worth the time. Not only are there some short term patterns obvious to you but also hints to dig deeper. Example the LaBocetta factoid... perhaps this is a simple short term pattern or maybe he is a master under these conditions. But better yet it is possible you have fallen on a seasonal trainer pattern. Continuing to do this type of work will also alert you to when the pattern or trend has ended, usually just the time the public catches on.

Dan Montilion

Larry Hamilton
11-14-2003, 02:38 PM
AndyCap, there is a set of statistical methods which will tell you whether a nugget you find has value.

1. First you must know 4 facts:

1) How many of your nuggets won?

2) How many of your nuggets lost?

3) How many were NOT your nuggets and won?

4) How many were NOT your nuggets and lost?

2. What follows is all in a spreadsheet I created called "MyNulz"

3. The procedure includes calculating probability of false alarm, expected wins and loses, and finally a determination of whether this is a Critical Factor.
This determination is a mathmatical answer to the question, "Does this info PROBABLY matter?"

If you tell me any four numbers mentioned above (HORSE STUFF), I can tell you if they matter.

Larry Hamilton
11-14-2003, 02:41 PM
I forgot something, you can choose what level of confidence you have in a false alarm occuring 10%, 5% or 1%.

Hosshead
11-14-2003, 07:10 PM
Larry, How large of a sample do you need to tell "if it matters"?
I assume the percentage of certainty increases with the size of the sample?

Tom
11-15-2003, 12:10 PM
Andy,
A lot of what you are doing can be mechanized using HTR export data-I track shippers, and can look back to see what level they ship in a win at, and I can look at trainers' entire recent records just by running a querry. Throwing in some HTR factors, like pscan or K (and the * contender indicator) help make sense of the data. Say 60 horses shipped from suff to Aqu and 5 of them won. Not really exciting, but may of that 60, only 15 of them were * contenders-now you have 5 out of 15 winners-33% looks a bit better.
Sample size be damned, when I see something repeat, I am on it until it stops. Like, after day 2 of the AQU meet, I was all over K1 and K2 horses. Anything over K3 was a throw out for a few days. Wehn I get a hot streak like this, I capitalize short term. My version of Beyer's "crushing" a race (although, nowhere near the amounts! <G>).
I use the HTR exports like a very thorough track model for many factors-and all you need is last weeks data.

I remeber the AQI track a few years ago. The 10 hole in sprints was something like 3 for 96. But what the stats in the Didn't tell you was that all three were in the last three days-that subset of data was something like 3 for 7.

Larry Hamilton
11-15-2003, 12:14 PM
Hoss, I dont know, give me the numbers, I'll plug them in. I would just give my template away--its not really a big deal, but I would probably be innundated with questions.

andicap
11-17-2003, 11:04 AM
Tom,
you're probably right, but I have neither the time nor inclination to learn Access.
If this stuff can be done in Excel, I would consider giving it a try.

Larry,

You are also probably right, but the idea behind me doing this is a down and dirty method of tracking short-tern trends without doing a lot of work or the headache of maintaining a database.

Amazin
11-17-2003, 12:14 PM
Andy asked:Is this information valuable on its own

Of course this information is valuable. Your main area for profit with this info would be in exoctics. If you can comfortably throw out the favorite due to his trainers poor record in a situation with favorites,you've got a huge edge.You can now spread the money that would have been wasted covering the favorite on combinations without the favorite that will bring home the cash at a more generous return.A combination you probably couldn't afford to make or couldn't see happening if you had to cover the favorite.The only thing is that the pattern may change,the trainer may get hot in a department with favorites. But in the meantime you stand to reap a good profit for your work till the change sets in.

Tom
11-18-2003, 07:58 PM
I do all the real work in Excel. Acces is used to store the data and filter out what I need to look at. I import into Access, then use a simpel Querry to export filtered records back into excel.
If you only use data from a track or two, you could even bypass Access and improt directly into Excel. then select what you need and copy it to a new worksheet ro two for analysis.

aaron
11-18-2003, 09:11 PM
I find your patterns interesting.I have noticed the last few weeks at Aqu. that shippers have been better in stakes and alw races than they have been in claiming races.Does any of your patterns confirm this?Short term patterns have always worked well at Aqu,so your information should be helpful.

andicap
11-18-2003, 10:55 PM
Stats go through 11/9

At Aqu, three stakes have been won by shippers,so I'd say yes and no..

a Grade 2 on the turf for older horses by Motion at 6-1 from Keeneland that's raced all over the Midwest and mid-atlantic. winner showed strong late fractions in turf race with decent early speed.

A Grade 3 route on the dirt for fillies/mares by James Jerkens from Meadowlands, but is really a NY horse at 12-1. Strange race. Horse dueled through slow fractions in a race on paper that looked like it had plenty of speed. Horse had very competitive figures but betters went for three class horses in the race. That's why I don't bet class (except in maidens and on the turf).

A Grade 3 onturf for F/M by Preciado that paid 14-1 from Meadowlands on soft turf. This horse was tougher to come up with. Decent late pace on best race in 6 months. But overall figs lagged behind field. Redboard: He had an outstanding workout rating from HTR, an angle I'm really going to keep an eye on.

aaron
11-19-2003, 09:08 AM
Shippers won the feature on Saturday and Sunday.Saturday's feature had a few shippers,but the winner was an obvious contender and won at 7-1.Today's feature has no true shipper.#9
Limero comes in from Del. but has run in NY twice.There are a few shippers on the card today that seem to have a shot,but are hard to gauge.Race 2 has 4 shippers and one of them #2 Shake the Dice could be favored.He has run in NY,but never at Aqu.The 5th race has 3 shippers,but I don't have a problem throwing all of them ouy.The 9th has 3 or 4 including ship back #4 Hussar who could be favored.

shanta
11-20-2003, 07:35 AM
READ YOUR INFO ON SHIPPERS TO N.Y. YOUR INFO ON DELAWARE SHIPPERS IS WHAT I AM SEEING AT A COUPLEOF OTHER TRACKS THAT I PLAY . THEY HAVE BEEN PRODUCING SOME REAL NICE PAYING WINNERS! RICHIE