Remember the racing form competitor?

[Casino]

The name escapes me ,(age)what was the name of the racing paper where beyer first had its numbers posted.I wonder how the paper would do today.I think it was the raicng times.
Great paper with alot of information,it was the first original formulator in paper form.

[JBmadera]

yep, Racing Times, and in color with speed figs. as I recall they had some data integrity issues but I still liked it much more than the DRF.

[KingChas]

Crist managed both. ;)


“The average person bets $125 a day at the races. A Form user bets $500.”
Steven Crist quote

[Casino]

Im sure someone still has a piece of it on this forum!:D

[Spiderman]

Liked that it had splits in decimals, not fractions

[lamboguy]

i remember the armstrong (the army). i remember bettiing on an armstrong #14 and the horse paying $2.40 to win!

[BIG49010]

The guy who started it lost so much money he killed himself.

[Fingal]

Think I have 1 or 2 around somewhere but finding them is another story. If I recall they used a different type font that was easier to read besides being a physically larger paper.

Racing Times, Figs Form & Sports Eye all tried at one time but don't exist any more. The DRF doesn't like competition.

[GaryG]

It was the Racing Times that caused DRF to incorporate a lot of their changes including the BSF and trainer data. Prior to the Times, DRF did everything the same way they did for the last 50 years.

[turninforhome10]

Would recommend reading Steve Crist's book Betting on Myself. Talks all about how the deals went down. Good read.

[v j stauffer]

I worked for Sports Eye. I called the chart for the 1984 Kentucky Derby and the 1984 and 1985 Preakness. Also worked in their Long Island office in Port Washington. Mike Francesca was one of their editors.

[Dave Schwartz]

I thought it was "Figs Form."

[wisconsin]

The Racing Time's pp's were advanced and now you will see the claiming condition in the DRF. Used to not be so. Remember when allowance race conditions in the DRF pp's were a guess?

[Casino]

Today, Racing Times' Sunday edition will be given away at Pimlico and the Laurel intertrack outlet to patrons arriving early; the Tuesday edition will be given away to patrons leaving late. Otherwise, the paper will cost $2.50, same as the Form.

Found the clip in the Baltimore Sun.Can you imagine the paper cost $2.50 and at one point they were giving it away as a sample.$2.50 we are getting old.

[the little guy]

I worked for Sports Eye. I called the chart for the 1984 Kentucky Derby and the 1984 and 1985 Preakness. Also worked in their Long Island office in Port Washington. Mike Francesca was one of their editors.


You need more gratuitous posts about yourself Vic.

[v j stauffer]

You need more gratuitous posts about yourself Vic.

If you wish to just be mean. Say I'm old and fat or a combination of both. How in the heck is saying I worked for Sports Eye in 1984 gratuitous?

My goodness man. Please get a life!

[the little guy]

If you wish to just be mean. Say I'm old and fat or a combination of both. How in the heck is saying I worked for Sports Eye in 1984 gratuitous?
My goodness man. Please get a life!


Because it had absolutely nothing to do with the topic, but because of your massive personal insecurities, you had a desperate need to needlessly interject yourself into the thread.

I assumed all of that was obvious, and figured you would realize it when I made a joke about it, but since you didn't, I have done you the favor of pointing it out. Feel free to thank me.

[v j stauffer]

Because it had absolutely nothing to do with the topic, but because of your massive personal insecurities, you had a desperate need to needlessly interject yourself into the thread.

I assumed all of that was obvious, and figured you would realize it when I made a joke about it, but since you didn't, I have done you the favor of pointing it out. Feel free to thank me.

The title of the thread was competitors of the Racing Form. Of which Sports Eye was one.

As for my massive personal insecurities I'm not quite sure how you could know that much about me. However since you seem to think you do. Thanks for the advice.

A person with these kinds of talents shouldn't be wasting them trying to help a broken down old racecaller.

[the little guy]

Thanks for the advice.

A person with these kinds of talents shouldn't be wasting them trying to help a broken down old racecaller.


You're welcome Vic....I'm there for you bud. My talents will not be wasted if I can help you in any way....so thank you as well.

[Mineshaft]

wow is all i can say...............

[PaceAdvantage]

wow is all i can say...............I believe you are making too much of it...

[Mineshaft]

I believe you are making too much of it...





thats ur opinion and im sure Vic has his opinion also

[levinmpa]

I posted 2 images of the the old Racing Times a couple of years ago. I really enjoyed that publication.

For anyone that's never seen it, here is an image of the front page and another of the actual PPs.

Note the record at the distance and record over the track, as well as the Beyer figure in bold. Also note the stud fee and grandsire information. DRF did not publish this information at the time. It was added to the DRF PPs only after the Racing Times went under.

http://racingradio.homeip.net:81/Racing_Times.jpg

http://racingradio.homeip.net:81/Times_PPs.jpg

[levinmpa]

I worked for Sports Eye. I called the chart for the 1984 Kentucky Derby and the 1984 and 1985 Preakness. Also worked in their Long Island office in Port Washington. Mike Francesca was one of their editors.


Vic. I have no idea why "The Little Guy" is on your case, but thanks for the info. I remember seeing Sports Eye in Las Vegas racebooks in the early 90's. I recall it having Harness PPs for the Meadowlands and other Harness tracks in the East. Did they publish T'bred PPs as well? Interesting that Francesca was an editor. He's actually one of the few "mainstream" sports guys that I respect, mainly due to the fact that he understands the gambling point of view.

All the best to you Vic. Nice job at Hollypark as usual.

[PaceAdvantage]

Francesa was editor of Sports Eye's College & Pro Football weekly...I don't believe he did anything regarding their racing publications...although I could be wrong...

[thespaah]

I worked for Sports Eye. I called the chart for the 1984 Kentucky Derby and the 1984 and 1985 Preakness. Also worked in their Long Island office in Port Washington. Mike Francesca was one of their editors.
No kidding....I interviewed at Sports Eye for a proof reader's position in 1984 or 85.
I had the job but I didn't take it. Since I lived in Northern NJ, it was about a 50 mile commute across two toll bridges which back then was about $10. The $8 per hour wage just didn't justify the commute.
Sports Eye is now "Harness Eye"...That according to "Pandy" who is a regular poster on here.

[Shemp Howard]

Robert Maxwell ws the publisher. He fell of his yacht and, being well over 300 lbs, was never heard from again.

[reckless]

Francesa was editor of Sports Eye's College & Pro Football weekly...I don't believe he did anything regarding their racing publications...although I could be wrong...

No, you are not wrong. Francesca didn't edit any of the racing publications at Sports Eye being strictly the pro and college football maven.

Legend has it that Mike was making the princely sum of $250 per week salary yet betting about $300 on each game during the season. Now, that's a man with a strong opinion, wouldn't you say??

The people at Sports Eye made a bloody fortune printing and distributing the harness programs around the country. They had the most modern and sophisticated high-speed printers and sorters in the entire industry and wasted little if any materials, such as ink and news print.

They also leased a table or two plus telephone lines to an associate that 'represented' Mike Warren. All the associated parties made a bundle in that little enterprise as well -- with the possible exception being the customers.

Those were fun days.

[TheGhostOfOscarB]

You need more gratuitous posts about yourself Vic.

I worked for the Morning Telegraph , The Jockey Club, and American Turf monthly. Come to think of it, I'm probably freaking unique in that regard.

Howz that for gratuitous.

Figs form was a quirky but interesting product. Sorry I didn't save a copy . I believe they had pace figures, but my memory is fuzzy. Might have been Racing Times with that.


At that point in time, anything was better than the Form, unless you were paying good money for the Sheets.

Ps What ever became of Mike Warren. Did he buy a private island with his winnings? And is it my imagination or has the tout business dried up over the years?

[BIG49010]

Robert Maxwell ws the publisher. He fell of his yacht and, being well over 300 lbs, was never heard from again.

Yeah that's guy I was trying to remember, he was into Goldman for a bizzillion dollars, then killed himself.

[pandy]

I wrote a regular column for Racing Times and worked for Sports Eye in the Post Washington office too, left in April of 1981. Sports Eye had thoroughbred pps before the Racing Times but the Racing Form paid them to stop. This was before Equibase so Sports Eye had to hire chart callers all over the country. It was a big undertaking.

[HPFridays]

I wrote a regular column for Racing Times and worked for Sports Eye in the Post Washington office too, left in April of 1981. Sports Eye had thoroughbred pps before the Racing Times but the Racing Form paid them to stop. This was before Equibase so Sports Eye had to hire chart callers all over the country. It was a big undertaking.

I'm hoping Pandy or Vic would know this, but wasn't Sports Form(sports handicapping's weekly version of the racing form) published by Sports Eye too? I used to buy the Sports Form weekly about 15 yrs ago. I do remember a tout that did great on the Sunday and Monday night NFL games, Colonel Joe Challmus or something like that.

[pandy]

Yes, Sports Form I believe and also College and Pro Football Weekly. Mike Francesca worked on that stuff.

[Cardus]

I posted 2 images of the the old Racing Times a couple of years ago. I really enjoyed that publication.

For anyone that's never seen it, here is an image of the front page and another of the actual PPs.

Note the record at the distance and record over the track, as well as the Beyer figure in bold. Also note the stud fee and grandsire information. DRF did not publish this information at the time. It was added to the DRF PPs only after the Racing Times went under.

http://racingradio.homeip.net:81/Racing_Times.jpg

http://racingradio.homeip.net:81/Times_PPs.jpg

Interesting graphic, with Fly So Free's past performances.

Vermont, who finished 2nd in the Tremont to Hansel, raced on the Belmont Stakes Day card in 1991, and I believe that it was his first start since the Tremont. I remember him running off of a big layoff. I might be wrong, but he ran 2nd in that comeback race, if memory serves. I am certain that he raced on that day, though.

Of course, back in the day when there were a sufficient number of good horses, Fly So Free ran in the Colin Stakes on that day. He won at a short price.

[NoDayJob]

Found the clip in the Baltimore Sun.Can you imagine the paper cost $2.50 and at one point they were giving it away as a sample.$2.50 we are getting old.

When I started handicapping the DRF cost $ 0.25 in 1946 as did the Morning Telegraph... Speaking about old, let's get real!

[classhandicapper]

Interesting graphic, with Fly So Free's past performances.

Of course, back in the day when there were a sufficient number of good horses, Fly So Free ran in the Colin Stakes on that day. He won at a short price.

Looking at Fly So Free's PPs was kind of shocking to me.

At the time I considered him an average to slightly below average "Derby prospect" compared to all the other leading 3YOs I had seen before him. His PPs look so much more impressive to me now. I guess we really have had a lot weak crops since then.

[Tom]

When I started handicapping the DRF cost $ 0.25 in 1946 as did the Morning Telegraph... Speaking about old, let's get real!

Wow! I came on board at 35 cents.

[BlueShoe]

And is it my imagination or has the tout business dried up over the years?
More like evaporated. :D Half a century ago they were quite prominent in SoCal, and, I assume, everywhere else as well. They routinely ran adds in the LA Times, Examiner, and Pasadena Star-News, all of which had large racing coverage. They also sponsored the nightly race re creation programs. Names such as Turfcraft, Horse and Jockey, and J. J. Williams come to mind from that era. Players today are much more sophisticated and unlikely to patronize touts, although still see the tip sheets and selection cards on sale at the track, a bit different proposition.

[levinmpa]

More like evaporated. :D Half a century ago they were quite prominent in SoCal, and, I assume, everywhere else as well. They routinely ran adds in the LA Times, Examiner, and Pasadena Star-News, all of which had large racing coverage. They also sponsored the nightly race re creation programs. Names such as Turfcraft, Horse and Jockey, and J. J. Williams come to mind from that era. Players today are much more sophisticated and unlikely to patronize touts, although still see the tip sheets and selection cards on sale at the track, a bit different proposition.

In Northern California, I used to listen to the race recreations from D. O'Connor Publications. The show was on a low wattage station in Vallejo, so they had to finish the show before the sun went down. They always had all the winners, until I bought their $25 Saturday specials, which always lost. They had an office at 760 Market Street, Room 659 in San Francisco. I still remember how they would give out the phone number. "Give us a call at YU6-0896. You had to visit Tony Molano, a guy with a big cigar. He'd always try to sell you other information packages.

At night I could barely get XPRS 1090 out of Tijuana. Turfcraft had their So. Cal race recreation show on that station each race evening. I still remember the announcer saying "And that's another Turfcraft winner". It seems like they had every winner on the card sometimes. I used to get their free Turfcraft Magazine in the mail every month. It had a bunch of horses to watch, although I don't remember making any money with it, since in those days you couldn't wager on So. Cal races at the No. Cal tracks.

[v j stauffer]

In Northern California, I used to listen to the race recreations from D. O'Connor Publications. The show was on a low wattage station in Vallejo, so they had to finish the show before the sun went down. They always had all the winners, until I bought their $25 Saturday specials, which always lost. They had an office at 760 Market Street, Room 659 in San Francisco. I still remember how they would give out the phone number. "Give us a call at YU6-0896. You had to visit Tony Molano, a guy with a big cigar. He'd always try to sell you other information packages.

At night I could barely get XPRS 1090 out of Tijuana. Turfcraft had their So. Cal race recreation show on that station each race evening. I still remember the announcer saying "And that's another Turfcraft winner". It seems like they had every winner on the card sometimes. I used to get their free Turfcraft Magazine in the mail every month. It had a bunch of horses to watch, although I don't remember making any money with it, since in those days you couldn't wager on So. Cal races at the No. Cal tracks.

I loved the Turfcraft shows. Calls made by Danny Baxter. He'd pitch you to buy the Sammy Parker private clockers release. If it didn't win you get the rest of the meet for no charge.

[Spalding No!]

Interesting graphic, with Fly So Free's past performances.

Vermont, who finished 2nd in the Tremont to Hansel, raced on the Belmont Stakes Day card in 1991, and I believe that it was his first start since the Tremont. I remember him running off of a big layoff. I might be wrong, but he ran 2nd in that comeback race, if memory serves. I am certain that he raced on that day, though.

Of course, back in the day when there were a sufficient number of good horses, Fly So Free ran in the Colin Stakes on that day. He won at a short price.

Fly So Free won the Riva Ridge on the Belmont undercard.

I didn't realize he made no starts between the Tremont in July and his Champagne romp in October. That was a pretty bold move.

[Dan Montilion]

In Northern California, I used to listen to the race recreations from D. O'Connor Publications. The show was on a low wattage station in Vallejo, so they had to finish the show before the sun went down. They always had all the winners, until I bought their $25 Saturday specials, which always lost. They had an office at 760 Market Street, Room 659 in San Francisco. I still remember how they would give out the phone number. "Give us a call at YU6-0896. You had to visit Tony Molano, a guy with a big cigar. He'd always try to sell you other information packages.

At night I could barely get XPRS 1090 out of Tijuana. Turfcraft had their So. Cal race recreation show on that station each race evening. I still remember the announcer saying "And that's another Turfcraft winner". It seems like they had every winner on the card sometimes. I used to get their free Turfcraft Magazine in the mail every month. It had a bunch of horses to watch, although I don't remember making any money with it, since in those days you couldn't wager on So. Cal races at the No. Cal tracks.

Say Goodnight Rob Bob

[BlueShoe]

They also sponsored the nightly race re creation programs. Names such as Turfcraft, Horse and Jockey, and J. J. Williams come to mind from that era.
The Horse and Jockey re creations were done by a man named Jay Richards. Have often wondered if this was the same Jay Richards that later enjoyed a long career as the raciing columist for the Las Vegas Review-Journal.