Favorite fails to finish, gets claimed. Watch the video!

[andymays]

This could end up in a big controversy. It's about Dime ridden by Rosario and Trained by O'Neill on Thursday July 7th in the 4th Race at Hollywood Park.

http://www.drf.com/blogs/hollywood-favorite-fails-finish-gets-claimed

[duncan04]

So why is this going to be a big controversy?

[andymays]

So why is this going to be a big controversy?

Because it's O'Neill among other things.

You have the PP's and you can watch the video and you have the DRF article to form your own opinion.

After watching the video and reading all the other information it looked bad to me. Rosario made no attempt to ride the gelding despite breaking well. This gelding never should have been put in the starting gate. On top of all that the poor guy that claimed him didn't deserve that and neither did the people that bet him down to 6-5.

The CHRB and the Stewards are looking into it as we speak/write.

[cj]

Anybody dumb enough to claim that horse probably gets what he deserves.

[andymays]

Anybody dumb enough to claim that horse probably gets what he deserves.

Did you notice the Jock switch. It looks like Rosario got off the winner to ride the horse that pulled up. When you add in that he never made an effort out of the gate it looks bad. Maybe there's a legitimate excuse but the Trainer and Jockey should be questioned about it.

[Delawaretrainer]

IF this is something the trainer knew before the race he should lose his license. I am sick of it being considered acceptable behavior for someone to drop a crippled horse down in the hopes it will get claimed.

I have seen some supposedly big classy trainers do this and it makes me ill. Sometimes the connections pay 500k for a horse and try to eek out $5000 to dump it. Obviously they don't have to sell their soul to the devil for 5k. It is soooo classless. I would worry about how the new connections would treat the horse and if they would do the right thing.

[Marlin]

Ethical issues aside, Trainers and jockeys have no responsibility to a potential claimant IMO. If you want to investigate someone, the only person I could fathom would be the track vet.

[mannyberrios]

He looked bad on the form

[Producer]

Doug O'Neil has no class at all. He has pulled this stunt on multiple occasions. Watching the video, there is no way he didn't know something was wrong with this horse before the race. Horse broke well and Rosario immediately knew something was amiss. How does this guy keep getting away with this?

I also agree with CJ. How in the world do you put a claim in for that horse? Especially with O'Neill dropping him. Some trainers are clueless.:bang:

[cj]

Maybe there's a legitimate excuse but the Trainer and Jockey should be questioned about it.

I have no problem with that. It should be investigated to prevent this kind of crap, especially from a guy that does it often. However, I have little sympathy for the guy that claimed the horse, or those that bet on him. It was all there in the PPs.

[andymays]

I have no problem with that. It should be investigated to prevent this kind of crap, especially from a guy that does it often. However, I have little sympathy for the guy that claimed the horse, or those that bet on him. It was all there in the PPs.

If he never entered the gate, and that was the Jockeys responsibility, then the claim wouldn't have happened. Rosario made no effort out of the gate. If he didn't know something was wrong he would have pushed a little (this gelding was easily the speed of the field). It looks like a setup to me. There's no way to prove it but this kind of thing looks real bad in my opinion.

[Relwob Owner]

If he never entered the gate, and that was the Jockeys responsibility, then the claim wouldn't have happened. Rosario made no effort out of the gate. If he didn't know something was wrong he would have pushed a little (this gelding was easily the speed of the field). It looks like a setup to me. There's no way to prove it but this kind of thing looks real bad in my opinion.


Just watched the replay and I think you are spot on in your analysis of Rosario's effort and agree with your questioning of the whole situation. I think it is good that you pointed this incident out but based on what usually happens in such instances, I think little will end up being done about it.

[MONEY]

If the horse was not fit, he should have not been entered in a race so he shouldn't have been claimed.
Luckily neither the horse or Rosario were killed.

[andymays]

Just watched the replay and I think you are spot on in your analysis of Rosario's effort and agree with your questioning of the whole situation. I think it is good that you pointed this incident out but based on what usually happens in such instances, I think little will end up being done about it.

I agree.

I do think the Stewards should haul in the Trainer and Jockey and ask some questions.

[thaskalos]

If he never entered the gate, and that was the Jockeys responsibility, then the claim wouldn't have happened. Rosario made no effort out of the gate. If he didn't know something was wrong he would have pushed a little (this gelding was easily the speed of the field). It looks like a setup to me. There's no way to prove it but this kind of thing looks real bad in my opinion.
What makes it even more unscrupulous is the insidious practice of enlisting the services of a top jockey in these fiascos.

I know why the trainer does it...but I will never understand why a top jockey agrees to take the mount in cases such as this.

Sickening...

[andymays]

If the horse was not fit, he should have not been entered in a race so he shouldn't have been claimed.
Luckily neither the horse or Rosario were killed.

One of the points is that it appeared that Rosario knew the horse might be off before he entered into the gate. He made no attempt to ride the horse out of the gate in my opinion.

[andymays]

What makes it even more unscrupulous is the insidious practice of enlisting the services of a top jockey in these fiascos.

I know why the trainer does it...but I will never understand why a top jockey agrees to take the mount in cases such as this.

Sickening...

That's why the public made him the favorite and most likely that's why he was claimed. Because it appeared that Rosario (the top dog) chose to ride him.

[sonnyp]

o'neil was the trainer on that horse that dropped to the bottom at los al last year out of a race on the major circuit.

that one was bet to odds on but never made the turn as she was far behind from the start and ended up in a pile on the backside. there was a big controversy on that one, even the girl, kristin mulhall (sp) made negative public comments.

nothing happened.

[thaskalos]

That's why the public made him the favorite and most likely that's why he was claimed. Because it appeared that Rosario (the top dog) chose to ride him.
I understand that...but does it make sense that Rosario would risk life and limb to take the mount?

Or was it understood from the beginning that it was going to be a total "no try"...?

[andymays]

I understand that...but does it make sense that Rosario would risk life and limb to take the mount?

Or was it understood from the beginning that it was going to be a total "no try"...?

That's what it looked like to me but I could be totally wrong. My point is that when these things happen to a heavy favorite questions should be asked just to let everyone know that the Stewards are on top of it.

[Relwob Owner]

I understand that...but does it make sense that Rosario would risk life and limb to take the mount?

Or was it understood from the beginning that it was going to be a total "no try"...?


Watching the replay, it didnt look like he risked life and limb, as he didnt hustle the horse at all and seemed to decide very, very, very quickly to pull the horse up after giving no effort from the get go.

[thaskalos]

That's what it looked like to me but I could be totally wrong. My point is that when these things happen to a heavy favorite questions should be asked just to let everyone know that the Stewards are on top of it.
I don't think you are wrong at all Andy...we have seen this scenario play itself out plenty of times.

Couple this incident with the "mugging" that took place in today's 8th race at Woodbine...and our game is looking pretty shady indeed.

[Greyfox]

Buyer beware.

[duncan04]

o'neil was the trainer on that horse that dropped to the bottom at los al last year out of a race on the major circuit.

that one was bet to odds on but never made the turn as she was far behind from the start and ended up in a pile on the backside. there was a big controversy on that one, even the girl, kristin mulhall (sp) made negative public comments.

nothing happened.

Nothing will probably happen here. Cal racing at its finest!! :p

[duncan04]

What makes it even more unscrupulous is the insidious practice of enlisting the services of a top jockey in these fiascos.

I know why the trainer does it...but I will never understand why a top jockey agrees to take the mount in cases such as this.

Sickening...


Im sure it was $$$$$$

[duncan04]

Because it's O'Neill among other things.

You have the PP's and you can watch the video and you have the DRF article to form your own opinion.

After watching the video and reading all the other information it looked bad to me. Rosario made no attempt to ride the gelding despite breaking well. This gelding never should have been put in the starting gate. On top of all that the poor guy that claimed him didn't deserve that and neither did the people that bet him down to 6-5.

The CHRB and the Stewards are looking into it as we speak/write.

You should always beware when claiming off O'Neill. Its not like its never happened before. Buyer beware!!

[andymays]

You should always beware when claiming off O'Neill. Its not like its never happened before. Buyer beware!!
Exactly!

[duncan04]

Exactly!

But why is this getting attention if its not the first time it happened? The Los Alamitos incident, nothing happened so not sure what would happen here?

[turninforhome10]

How good was the 7 to finish third after getting pushed to the outside by Rosario? After watching the head on it looked like he knew 5 jumps out of the gate it was time to get out of Dodge. I would think a jock would know during warmups if a horse is off in the back end, HELL, I can tell when a horse is off in the back end by getting on them and I am by no means as experienced as Rosario. But if you are wanting to lose a horse, putting Rosario on him would sure help. Rosario probably got the mount because of the huge drop and his earlier success on the horse.
I believe that if horse does not finish the race, the claim should be negated. Always have felt this way after watching a friend claim one a Hoosier only to get back a carcass after the race.
Dollar says that the published works for the horse were not even his.
At least the horse might be able to get fixed up by the new trainer and maybe race again.
Still somebody should be answering some questions for the stewards.
And we wonder why people think this is a crooked game. Very sad/

[Stillriledup]

O"neill and Rosario pulled the same stunt on May 8th (5th race) with suspicious dropper Reality Ride.

[PaceAdvantage]

Dollar says that the published works for the horse were not even his.As if published works are always rock-solid reliable otherwise... :lol:

[turninforhome10]

As if published works are always rock-solid reliable otherwise... :lol:
Don't believe works, never have. Seen to many shenanigans to put much faith in them. This is case in point.

[Canarsie]

All they have to do is increase any fines by 2% and that will take care of the purse distribution problem.

In all seriousness stories like this spread like wildfire any prospective new owner to the game would say to him or herself "I NEED TO GET MY HEAD EXAMINED"!!!

[Robert Goren]

IF this is something the trainer knew before the race he should lose his license. I am sick of it being considered acceptable behavior for someone to drop a crippled horse down in the hopes it will get claimed.

I have seen some supposedly big classy trainers do this and it makes me ill. Sometimes the connections pay 500k for a horse and try to eek out $5000 to dump it. Obviously they don't have to sell their soul to the devil for 5k. It is soooo classless. I would worry about how the new connections would treat the horse and if they would do the right thing." If you have already sold it, it doesn't matter" Bruce Williams

[rwwupl]

What makes it even more unscrupulous is the insidious practice of enlisting the services of a top jockey in these fiascos.

I know why the trainer does it...but I will never understand why a top jockey agrees to take the mount in cases such as this.

Sickening...

It is a question of integrity. O'Neill made a bad claim and wanted to get rid of him via the claim box. He dropped the price a ton. He knew that it was suspicious and no one would claim him if they thought he was not O.K.

He knew that getting the top jockey to ride would indicate the horse was O.K. to many. The problem is that Rosario got off a potential winning mount to do O'Neill a favor and help him get rid of the horse via the claim box.

Was Rosario aware before hand what was going down?

I do not know that.

Where were the Veterinarians ?

Thats why the stewards were asked to review the circumstances. We will get the stewards review when complete.

Rosario gained points with O'Neill for future mounts.

Feel sorry for the victims, the horse,the new owner by claim and the betting fans at 6/5 odds.

[Stillriledup]

It is a question of integrity. O'Neill made a bad claim and wanted to get rid of him via the claim box. He dropped the price a ton. He knew that it was suspicious and no one would claim him if they thought he was not O.K.

He knew that getting the top jockey to ride would indicate the horse was O.K. to many. The problem is that Rosario got off a potential winning mount to do O'Neill a favor and help him get rid of the horse via the claim box.

Was Rosario aware before hand what was going down?

I do not know that.

Where were the Veterinarians ?

Thats why the stewards were asked to review the circumstances. We will get the stewards review when complete.

Rosario gained points with O'Neill for future mounts.

Feel sorry for the victims, the horse,the new owner by claim and the betting fans at 6/5 odds.

You could make the case that he was riding for Reddam and not O'Neill. I believe Joel has a mount in a stakes race this weekend for Reddam, so, this might have been being loyal to an owner and not a trainer.

[PhantomOnTour]

Can Betfair customers overseas play American races?
If so, I wonder if there were any huge bets they could follow from this race.
Not that it would bring the truth out, but it may give further evidence of premeditation.

[rwwupl]

You could make the case that he was riding for Reddam and not O'Neill. I believe Joel has a mount in a stakes race this weekend for Reddam, so, this might have been being loyal to an owner and not a trainer.

Jockey should be riding according to the racing rules, but we know that is not always the case.

The rule:

Rule No. Rule Title
1692 Requirements for Horse, Trainer and Jockey.
Rule Text Each horse starting in a race must be qualified for that race, ready to run, in physical condition to exert its best effort, and entered with the intention to win. Each trainer having the care or custody of such horse warrants it is fit to participate when brough to the paddock. Such trainers shall be present at the paddock to supervise the saddling of the horse and shall give instructions to assure the best performace of the horse. Jockeys going to the post in any race shall race their mount to win, shall give their best efforts in the race to their mount and the public, and shall ride their mount out until the finish line is passed. No person shall, or attempt to, instruct, induce or otherwise solicit any jockey or trainer to ride or perform in a manner contrary to this rule. NOTE: Authority cited: Section 19440, Business and Professions Code. Reference: Section 19440, Business and Professions Code. HISTORY: 1. Amendment filed 7-23-97; effective 8-22-97.


We will await the results of the CHRB investigation.

rw

[Stillriledup]

Jockey should be riding according to the racing rules, but we know that is not always the case.

The rule:

Rule No. Rule Title
1692 Requirements for Horse, Trainer and Jockey.
Rule Text Each horse starting in a race must be qualified for that race, ready to run, in physical condition to exert its best effort, and entered with the intention to win. Each trainer having the care or custody of such horse warrants it is fit to participate when brough to the paddock. Such trainers shall be present at the paddock to supervise the saddling of the horse and shall give instructions to assure the best performace of the horse. Jockeys going to the post in any race shall race their mount to win, shall give their best efforts in the race to their mount and the public, and shall ride their mount out until the finish line is passed. No person shall, or attempt to, instruct, induce or otherwise solicit any jockey or trainer to ride or perform in a manner contrary to this rule. NOTE: Authority cited: Section 19440, Business and Professions Code. Reference: Section 19440, Business and Professions Code. HISTORY: 1. Amendment filed 7-23-97; effective 8-22-97.


We will await the results of the CHRB investigation.

rw


Absolutely. Lets see what happens.

[Mineshaft]

I see no problem with dropping the horse to 16K. He claimed it for 32K in october and ran it 5 times in a 40K starter. Horse couldnt win for that so he dropped him.


I havent watched the replay and you may be right that Rosario was told just to break him out the gate and pull him up.

[duncan04]

Absolutely. Lets see what happens.

Probably nothing like the previous times its happened

[Stillriledup]

I see no problem with dropping the horse to 16K. He claimed it for 32K in october and ran it 5 times in a 40K starter. Horse couldnt win for that so he dropped him.


I havent watched the replay and you may be right that Rosario was told just to break him out the gate and pull him up.

I can't imagine he was told to do that because if he was questioned and said "yeah, the trainer said break him out and pull him up" the trainer would be in bigger trouble than he's already in.

Maybe he just gave the jock the 'wink' and the jock knew what to do.

Also, i wonder if Reddam might be paying Rosario more than the normal jocks fee. This way, he can get Rosario on the horse and potential claimants will say "well, Rosario won't ride a lame one, so the horse must be ok"

Meanwhile, Rosario gave up a winning mount to ride this horse. I dont know if top jocks are in the business of giving up winning mounts to ride lame ones if there's nothing in it for them. (or the agent)

[Jeff P]

The rule:

Rule No. Rule Title
1692 Requirements for Horse, Trainer and Jockey.
Rule Text: Each horse starting in a race must be qualified for that race, ready to run, in physical condition to exert its best effort, and entered with the intention to win. Each trainer having the care or custody of such horse warrants it is fit to participate when brough to the paddock. Such trainers shall be present at the paddock to supervise the saddling of the horse and shall give instructions to assure the best performace of the horse. Jockeys going to the post in any race shall race their mount to win, shall give their best efforts in the race to their mount and the public, and shall ride their mount out until the finish line is passed. No person shall, or attempt to, instruct, induce or otherwise solicit any jockey or trainer to ride or perform in a manner contrary to this rule. NOTE: Authority cited: Section 19440, Business and Professions Code. Reference: Section 19440, Business and Professions Code. HISTORY: 1. Amendment filed 7-23-97; effective 8-22-97.

As a bettor, I really wish all racing jurisdictions everywhere did a better job of enforcing the above (especially the two bolded parts.) More and more they appear to be looking the other way instead of enforcing the rules.

The goal of having the rules in the first place is to produce honest competition (sport.)

You can't convince me racing's decline over the past few years isn't related to the general public catching on that the human connections involved aren't always in it to win it.


-jp

.

[senortout]

This one caused at altercation at the load....another horse next to her ran off, this Oneil charge was being dropped to the bottom level also.....more to come

[thaskalos]

As a bettor, I really wish all racing jurisdictions everywhere did a better job of enforcing the above (especially the two bolded parts.) More and more they appear to be looking the other way instead of enforcing the rules.

The goal of having the rules in the first place is to produce honest competition (sport.)

You can't convince me racing's decline over the past few years isn't related to the general public catching on that the human connections involved aren't always in it to win it.


-jp

.
Considering how the game is being run, I am surprised they haven't removed that paragraph from the rule book.

What a freaking joke...

[teddy]

It is a question of integrity. O'Neill made a bad claim and wanted to get rid of him via the claim box. He dropped the price a ton. He knew that it was suspicious and no one would claim him if they thought he was not O.K.

He knew that getting the top jockey to ride would indicate the horse was O.K. to many. The problem is that Rosario got off a potential winning mount to do O'Neill a favor and help him get rid of the horse via the claim box.

Was Rosario aware before hand what was going down?

I do not know that.

Where were the Veterinarians ?

Thats why the stewards were asked to review the circumstances. We will get the stewards review when complete.

Rosario gained points with O'Neill for future mounts.

Feel sorry for the victims, the horse,the new owner by claim and the betting fans at 6/5 odds.
Lets watch for Rosario on Oniels live horses now.

[Idrivetrotters]

This is one reason I wrote off Cal racing years ago, the 98% lasix usage and more shady dealings than even I (a Louisiana native) can stomach.

Heck, before lasix became nearly mandatory, I knew a trainer who dropped a horse in class but didn't want him claimed, he put chickens blood on the horses nose because nobody would claim a bleeder.

There is a long list of trainers you just don't claim from and O'Neill is one of them. So whoever went shopping in that barn came up empty.

Stewards do need to check this out, and let's start making a real effort to get the bad trainers out of our sport. Or is the old adage of "if we had an honest product nobody would be betting on it" mentality still alive and well?

[proximity]

this happened last night in the 9th at penn national.

less than a month ago a horse named unusual manner lost a hard pace duel with immortal eyes in a $75,000 stakes race at charles town. (immortal eyes won that race and came back to win again at colonial where he set a track record for 6 furlongs)

last night unusual manner was entered (and claimed) for $4000 and limped across the finish line before falling over dead.

was this necessary???

[Delawaretrainer]

this happened last night in the 9th at penn national.

less than a month ago a horse named unusual manner lost a hard pace duel with immortal eyes in a $75,000 stakes race at charles town. (immortal eyes won that race and came back to win again at colonial where he set a track record for 6 furlongs)

last night unusual manner was entered (and claimed) for $4000 and limped across the finish line before falling over dead.

was this necessary???

Who is this trainer? I really hope he catches some heat for this.

[duncan04]

Any updates? I'm sure O'Neill will get a pass like usual!

[cj]

Who is this trainer? I really hope he catches some heat for this.

John D Connor, yet another embarrassment to this once great sport.

[proximity]

Who is this trainer? I really hope he catches some heat for this.

the trainer is having a good year (he's won more races in the first half of 2011 than he had in any full calendar year in the last 20 years) so i doubt he'll catch any heat. i think he's close with that lady who is president of the horseman's association also.

i would like to apologize for misspelling the horse's name. unsual manner was the correct spelling. guess it really doesn't matter now.

[turninforhome10]

John D Connor, yet another embarrassment to this once great sport.
ame: JOHN D CONNER Ruling Date: 6/27/2011
Jurisdiction: Pennsylvania Horse Racing Commission Facility: PENN NATIONAL
Ruling Number: 11215PN Ruling Type: Unknown
Breed: Thoroughbred Division: Horse
Fine Amount: $ 250 Fine Paid: Not Reported
Suspension Start: Suspension End:
Ruling Text: , General Ruling FAILURE TO RUN AN ENTERED HORSE UNSUAL MANNER (MEDICATED BY MISTAKE), NECESSITATING A LATE SCRATCH OF THE HORSE FROM THE 5TH RACE, JUNE 27, 2011. YOU ARE HEREBY FINED THE SUM OF TWO HUNDRED FIFTY DOLLARS ($250.00). FINE DUE JULY 7, 2011. IF FINE IS NOT PAID, SUSPENSION BEGINS JULY 17, 2011.

[forced89]

This should be investigated. Suspicious entry; suspicious scratch; horse dies.

Void claim? Suspend trainer? Nothing? At least investigate!

[proximity]

John D Connor, yet another embarrassment to this once great sport.
http://www.rmtcnet.com/content_recentrulings.asp

i see TWO clenbuterol positives with $2000 and $3000 fines and disqualifications for july 21, a bunch of scratches last week, and trainer changes to mcguire this week. has john d conner been suspended? :eek:

[proximity]

also look at who owns the drugged horse rexdale warrior and some other conner horses. ring any bells?

[proximity]

stewards scratch tonight's three jdc-mcguire transfers in the 7th, 8th, and 9th.:confused: