Del Mar: head to head at 10.

[FenceBored]

Del Mar will also be the first track in California to offer a regular head-to-head wager, which will take place each Saturday on the eighth race feature, Dado said. The racing office will designate two horses from the race after entries are taken and allow bettors to wager on which horse will beat the other in a pari-mutuel bet that features a low 10% takeout.

Read more: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/63704/del-mar-to-continue-players-pick-5-adds-bet#ixzz1Q8id7JqH

How many new exotic wagers can you adopt with lower takeouts before you admit that you ought to lower the takeout on the bread & butter exotics?

[cj]

Del Mar will also be the first track in California to offer a regular head-to-head wager, which will take place each Saturday on the eighth race feature, Dado said. The racing office will designate two horses from the race after entries are taken and allow bettors to wager on which horse will beat the other in a pari-mutuel bet that features a low 10% takeout.

Read more: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/63704/del-mar-to-continue-players-pick-5-adds-bet#ixzz1Q8id7JqH

How many new exotic wagers can you adopt with lower takeouts before you admit that you ought to lower the takeout on the bread & butter exotics?




I wouldn't really call 10% low takeout on a bet that can only have two outcomes.

[Charli125]

"Right, this is something I can bet with my girlfriends," agreed Bo Derek.

Awesome, The Perfect Ten is going to have money in the pools!

[ronsmac]

When you factor breakage on a two horse wager that will have some really low payouts when the favorite of the two wins, the takeout can actually go higher than the standard 15+ percent on regular wps.

[Seabiscuit@AR]

10% takeout for a head to head match up bet is a terrible deal

Bookies on head to head match ups in sports are happy to bet prices equivalent to a 5% takeout. But these are fixed odds where the bookie has some risk of losing. A parimutuel tote bet has no risk of losing for the tote operator so really the takeout should be lower than the 5% offered by fixed odds bookies. 2% to 2.5% takeout is probably fair for this sort of parimutuel bet. Also you want to keep the rounding down of dividends as low as possible with this bet

You need to set the takeout very low as people are not going to be very interested in a bet that pays odds on most of the time when the takeout is 10% plus rounding down of dividends

[Tread]

Simple Illustration:

Assume even money is bet on both horses so that my $100 and someone elses 100 cancel each other out. Of that $200, they are going to take $20 leaving $180 for payout on a $100 bet that should be paying even money.

Betting sports sides in most scenarios (-110) gets you back $191 on your $100. So all-in-all, pretty horrible value and a ridiculous spin put on this.

[davew]

it depends on what type of horses are chosen for the head to head (40/40, 80/20),



but breakage could easily add another 10% to money for track

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Breakage will easily add an average of at least 3% to this wager. Sports betting the takeout is 4.6% with no breakage, plus you have a vast array of match ups or over-unders to choose from.

This could be an experiment to see if they can get away with a 10 or 12% takeout on exchange wagering.

Didn't Churchill have an odd even bet with a 4% takeout (adding breakage it might have been close to double the take of sports betting)? That didn't fly to well, I can't see this doing well either.

I have to ask, other than Bo Derek, what other gamblers did they survey to come up with this one?

[thaskalos]

Del Mar will also be the first track in California to offer a regular head-to-head wager, which will take place each Saturday on the eighth race feature, Dado said. The racing office will designate two horses from the race after entries are taken and allow bettors to wager on which horse will beat the other in a pari-mutuel bet that features a low 10% takeout. Read more: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/63704/del-mar-to-continue-players-pick-5-adds-bet#ixzz1Q8id7JqH


How many new exotic wagers can you adopt with lower takeouts before you admit that you ought to lower the takeout on the bread & butter exotics?







"Chairman Keith Blackpool said that he was intrigued by the POTENTIAL such a wager could have on the non-racing public."



Why should we worry about the fate of California racing...when people like Keith Blackpool are at the helm?

Here we have a bet which will only offer about an even-money return (or much less)...and this "genius" thinks this will have an affect on the NON-RACING public...

Nice to see that the racing leaders are so "in tune" with what the public wants...

[DJofSD]

This says all you need to know about the head-to-head wager:

"It is a bet you can make without a great deal of handicapping," said David Israel. It could attract novice players, he noted.



Read more: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/63704/del-mar-to-continue-players-pick-5-adds-bet#ixzz1QCm56Jxm

[thaskalos]

This says all you need to know about the head-to-head wager:



Read more: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/63704/del-mar-to-continue-players-pick-5-adds-bet#ixzz1QCm56Jxm

IMO, the head-to-head wager is an EXCELLENT idea, but not with a 10% takeout plus breakage...and not with a focus on the "non-racing" public -- because the return on this bet will be deemed very unappetizing by most.

I don't understand; if they think it's such a good idea...why offer it just once a week?

[DJofSD]

I think the bet is, at best, a stop-gap measure.

There isn't anything they can do to increase the size of the fields or the number of racing days. But, they can find new ways to churn the money.

Money and fools are soon parted.

[David-LV]

This is what is known as an absolute sucker bet to rape the public that has no knowledge of wagering.

10% takeout plus breakage will break all of the suckers that play this bet.

Thanks again California racing, you really put your thinking caps on to come up with this one. :rolleyes::lol:

_______
David-LV

[Robert Goren]

Anything to keep from resending the exotic takeout hikes of last winter.

[Stillriledup]

Del Mar is targeting 'sports bettors' by offering a -120 (math correct?) on both sides bet.

Sports bettors can bet -110 on each side in Vegas, and even -110 is a lot to overcome to be profitable, why would any bettors give them minus a dollar 20?

[toussaud]

this is worse than stronachs super duper bend over and take it fecta he had at laruel

[Stillriledup]

this is worse than stronachs super duper bend over and take it fecta he had at laruel

:D

[HuggingTheRail]

I recall Emerald had a head to head wager a few years ago. I think it was on the feature race each day, and it usually had two 6-1 or 8-1 ML horses against each other.

I don't remember the takeout, but I know the pools were very small....

[Robert Fischer]

i like the idea.

[toussaud]

i like the idea.
Flagellation must sound appealing to you

[Robert Fischer]

Flagellation must sound appealing to you

'sharp post' ?

[Stillriledup]

Maybe Pegram or LaCroix can name a horse: Sharp Post at PA's

:jump:

[rwwupl]

10% takeout for a head to head match up bet is a terrible deal

Bookies on head to head match ups in sports are happy to bet prices equivalent to a 5% takeout. But these are fixed odds where the bookie has some risk of losing. A parimutuel tote bet has no risk of losing for the tote operator so really the takeout should be lower than the 5% offered by fixed odds bookies. 2% to 2.5% takeout is probably fair for this sort of parimutuel bet. Also you want to keep the rounding down of dividends as low as possible with this bet

You need to set the takeout very low as people are not going to be very interested in a bet that pays odds on most of the time when the takeout is 10% plus rounding down of dividends


To be fair to Del Mar, it should be pointed out that current California law requires the take out to be between 10% and 25%, and 10% is the lowest that Del Mar can offer on any bet.

rw

[toussaud]

To be fair to Del Mar, it should be pointed out that current California law requires the take out to be between 10% and 25%, and 10% is the lowest that Del Mar can offer on any bet.

rw
but it's still not a good wager. if you think a race with 2 outcomes with 10% takeout is good you must be in heaven in socal's 5 horse fields with 15% takeout

[cj]

To be fair to Del Mar, it should be pointed out that current California law requires the take out to be between 10% and 25%, and 10% is the lowest that Del Mar can offer on any bet.

rw

Why should we be fair? Here is a novel idea, if you want to try something new, drop WPS wagering takeout to 10% since California law allows it. Stop being a California apologist.

[andymays]

CJ, he's just telling you what the law is. When you figure in everything they won't make any money on a 10% wps wager.

I don't know if I posted this before but when they had a carryover of 799k in the P5 pool (14% takeout) Hollywood Park made about 26k on the bet. The rest went to purses and ADW's. The ADW's got the biggest cut.

The takeout was fine where they had it last year.

[cj]

CJ, he's just telling you what the law is. When you figure in everything they won't make any money on a 10% wps wager.

I don't know if I posted this before but when they had a carryover of 799k in the P5 pool (14% takeout) Hollywood Park made about 26k on the bet. The rest went to purses and ADW's. The ADW's got the biggest cut.

The takeout was fine where they had it last year.

I know what the law is. However, just adding yet another bet to dilute pools is hardly the answer, and the "low" takeout is another bullshit attempt to pretend they are helping players.

As for not making any money on 10% WPS wagering, this is exactly the kind of thinking that has put the sport in the position it is in today.

[Valuist]

This says all you need to know about the head-to-head wager:



Read more: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/63704/del-mar-to-continue-players-pick-5-adds-bet#ixzz1QCm56Jxm

When one hears David Israel is involved, you can figure the public is not benefitting.

[Robert Fischer]

it comes down to the same goddamn issues

just follow the money, and it's easy to see the problems and the solutions

[chickenhead]

Tracks seem to relish (or more likely, horsemen only allow) offering low takeout on long serial wagers with low churn, blunting the effect, or now in a diabolical twist, offering "low" takeout on a bet with such low odds that the "low" takeout is too high.

We need some better metrics than just blended takeout, because bets like this one don't help the overall takeout picture in reality.

[Stillriledup]

When one hears David Israel is involved, you can figure the public is not benefitting.



That would be a safe bet for sure.