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PhantomOnTour
06-20-2011, 08:25 PM
I was just watching the replay of the 1992 BC from Gulfstream Park on HRTV.
In the BC Sprint a horse named Mr. Brooks, ridden by none other than Lestor Piggott, broke down during the race and was euthanized. Piggott was hurt badly as well; he was about 56yrs old at the time.

After the race NBC reported that fellow Euro jock Walter Swinbourn had said that Piggott told him during the warm-ups that Mr. Brooks was sore. I immediately thought about Life At Ten...NBC also reported that they questioned Swinbourn as to whether he or Piggott had informed the stewards or a vet regarding Mr. Brooks' condition before the race. Swinbourn said they did not.

This pre-dated my intro to racing...was there an uproar from fans about this? After all, it was reported on national TV that the jocks said nothing, then the horse dies and the jock gets busted up...bettors who backed Mr. Brooks also take it on the chin.
This seems similar to the Life At Ten fiasco from last year; only difference being that she survived the trip. But it's exactly the same in the sense that fans backed a horse who wasn't fit to race.

Tom
06-20-2011, 09:28 PM
For me, all there was back then was a printed copy of DRF to get news.
I really don't remember the story behind the incident, but I do remember that it happened.

Maybe people enjoyed racing more back then because they had limited information about it? Without the internet, there was not a lot of opportunity to discuss as there is today.

PhantomOnTour
06-20-2011, 10:10 PM
Before internet wagering i guess most people were at the OTB with only the track feed.
Seems that since it was broadcast live by NBC (the fact that the jock thought his mount wasn't right) i figgered someone would take exception to it.

sonnyp
06-20-2011, 10:17 PM
For me, all there was back then was a printed copy of DRF to get news.
I really don't remember the story behind the incident, but I do remember that it happened.

Maybe people enjoyed racing more back then because they had limited information about it? Without the internet, there was not a lot of opportunity to discuss as there is today.


technology changes everything, not always for the better. it wasn't that long ago they would lock up the pay phones (remember them ?) before the 1st race at the tracks and if you weren't at the track you had to wait for the next morning newspaper (remember them ?) for results.

Marshall Bennett
06-21-2011, 06:08 AM
I recall the breakdown vividly because of the replay they kept showing in slow motion of him shattering his front leg and rolling over on Picket. It was awful.

nijinski
06-21-2011, 07:39 AM
Mr Brooks was a very nice horse indeed , that was another tough one.
Sorry BC or not Lestor should have dismounted prior to the race.
His trainer Rich Hannon trains Canford Cliffs who just beat Goldi so there
should be pressure on him to come to the BC but my guess is he'll keep
CC in Europe.

Tom
06-21-2011, 11:12 AM
I remember a few years in a row or so that there were breakdowns and terrible accidents. We were calling it the Bleeder's Cup massacre. Housebuster, Open something flipped in the post parade and died? Seems like they were in a cluster.

But with no net forum for discussion, it was limited to the track bar.

the little guy
06-21-2011, 11:23 AM
I remember a few years in a row or so that there were breakdowns and terrible accidents. We were calling it the Bleeder's Cup massacre. Housebuster, Open something flipped in the post parade and died? Seems like they were in a cluster.

But with no net forum for discussion, it was limited to the track bar.

Housebuster wasn't involved in an accident. As far as " Open something " flipping in the paddock and dying...I would guess you mean Exogenous, which did not exactly happen in the paddock, but was 2001....and this forum was up and running. Maybe there wasn't as much irrational discussion about it at that time because there weren't as many irrational posters here.

Tom
06-21-2011, 12:39 PM
Didn't Housebuster get his foot torn up in the gate during the Sprint?
The one that flipped was on the track, just as they came out for the post parade, if I remember. Broken neck?

Saratoga_Mike
06-21-2011, 12:42 PM
"But all was not well. In fact, nothing was well. Housebuster's right front hoof was bleeding badly and had been since his back foot had ripped the flesh open milliseconds after the break. Trying to stay away from the pain, the colt had been leading with his left front foot from the start and the pressure was starting to tell. Housebuster cocked his head and took several tentative steps as ligaments started to pull away in his left foot. Instead of pulling away to an easy win, Housebuster fell back and back and back, finally finishing ninth behind English star Sheikh Albadou. There was nothing to do but stare up the track as Housebuster limped back toward the finish line. Jockey Craig Perret got off and the horse ambulance came for Housebuster to take him from the race track for the final time" www.philly.com

the little guy
06-21-2011, 01:20 PM
Didn't Housebuster get his foot torn up in the gate during the Sprint?
The one that flipped was on the track, just as they came out for the post parade, if I remember. Broken neck?


Yes, Housebuster stepped on himself and was bleeding. Not really an accident.

I don't know the exact injury, but I think you are describing Exogenous, if not exactly.

Housebuster was 1990 and Exogenous was 2001.

BombsAway Bob
06-21-2011, 01:22 PM
Housebuster wasn't involved in an accident. As far as " Open something " flipping in the paddock and dying...I would guess you mean Exogenous, which did not exactly happen in the paddock, but was 2001....and this forum was up and running. Maybe there wasn't as much irrational discussion about it at that time because there weren't as many irrational posters here.
Exogenous was a favorite of mine, made me sick to my stomach when the incident happened. just awful.. ya never know...

nijinski
06-21-2011, 01:58 PM
Go for Wand , I was upset for a long time after her breakdown. The media was all lover it .

Saratoga_Mike
06-21-2011, 02:16 PM
It doesn't matter too much, but Housebuster's last race was 1991, not 1990.

the little guy
06-21-2011, 02:47 PM
It doesn't matter too much, but Housebuster's last race was 1991, not 1990.

Thanks. BC was at Belmont in 1990...CD in 1991. I had it switched in my addled brain.

Valuist
06-21-2011, 02:49 PM
Go for Wand , I was upset for a long time after her breakdown. The media was all lover it .

Absolutely true the media was all over that one. I think Mr. Nickerson broke down that year as well in the Sprint. He wasn't as big of a star as Go for Wand so not nearly as newsworthy. But it still was a great Breeders Cup, with Derby winner Unbridled winning the Classic, only to be inexplicably not named horse of the year. The Sprint was a great stretch drive with shadow jumping Dayjur losing a stretch drive to the filly Safely Kept. I remember hitting a big exacta in the Mile. Can't remember who won, but Itsallgreektome was 2nd at 35-1.

the little guy
06-21-2011, 03:17 PM
I don't believe Mr. Nickerson broke down. I think he had a heart attack.

Cardus
06-21-2011, 03:21 PM
It was a heart attack.

Pine Tree Lane
06-21-2011, 03:46 PM
It was a heart attack.

And Shaker Knit went over the top of Mr. Nickerson and was paralyzed.

Pine Tree Lane
06-21-2011, 03:50 PM
Didn't Housebuster get his foot torn up in the gate during the Sprint?
The one that flipped was on the track, just as they came out for the post parade, if I remember. Broken neck?

On the Line was stepped on coming out of the gate in the 1989 sprint. Sam Who came over interfering with Regal Intention, Mr. Nickerson, Dispersal and Once Wild. One of those tore On the Line's foot almost off. hey tried to save him but were unsuccessful.

I think Black Tie Affair was also bothered.

PhantomOnTour
06-21-2011, 03:53 PM
The thing that bothers me is that Piggot, like Johnny V on LAT, knew his mount may not have been fit to race but alerted no racing officials....

OR BETTORS!!!

Tom
06-21-2011, 04:06 PM
I gtta look it up in the hcarts - it seems that all the incidents were back to back years. Was WOodbine around 1990-91, I think it was at Woodbine, but we are dealing with a very old, gin-soaked brain here. Best I have to work with.

tholl
06-21-2011, 04:26 PM
I was just watching the replay of the 1992 BC from Gulfstream Park on HRTV.
In the BC Sprint a horse named Mr. Brooks, ridden by none other than Lestor Piggott, broke down during the race and was euthanized. Piggott was hurt badly as well; he was about 56yrs old at the time.

After the race NBC reported that fellow Euro jock Walter Swinbourn had said that Piggott told him during the warm-ups that Mr. Brooks was sore. I immediately thought about Life At Ten...NBC also reported that they questioned Swinbourn as to whether he or Piggott had informed the stewards or a vet regarding Mr. Brooks' condition before the race. Swinbourn said they did not.



What stood out to me was that Bob Neumeir for NBC misquoted Swinburn. What Swinburn said that Piggott said was that "he warmed up very badly" which could mean many things. Neumeir transalated that to Piggott saying he "was sore". Maybe a minor point and horse really should have been scratched.

the little guy
06-21-2011, 05:09 PM
What stood out to me was that Bob Neumeir for NBC misquoted Swinburn. What Swinburn said that Piggott said was that "he warmed up very badly" which could mean many things. Neumeir transalated that to Piggott saying he "was sore". Maybe a minor point and horse really should have been scratched.


A lot of horses warm up sore.

Hypothesizing over something we know very little about from 20 years ago seems very odd. Must be a slow day.

Fager Fan
06-21-2011, 05:29 PM
A lot of horses warm up sore.

Hypothesizing over something we know very little about from 20 years ago seems very odd. Must be a slow day.

But was it normal for this horse to warm up sore? That's what matters, not if any other animal has a chronic issue.

There was also talk of how unusual it was for the horse to balk at being loaded as Mr. Brooks was doing. I haven't looked at the video in many years, but I'm remembering it being a quite adamant statement on his part that he did not want to load.

Sometimes we do have to listen to what the horses are telling us. I've always thought Mr. Brooks tried to tell us, we ignored it, and he died as a result.

tholl
06-21-2011, 05:34 PM
A lot of horses warm up sore.

Hypothesizing over something we know very little about from 20 years ago seems very odd. Must be a slow day.

I don't see my statement as odd at all. My point was that Swinburn was misquoted. "Sore" and "warming up badly" are different statements. The former sounding alot worse. And yes, alot of horses warm up sore I'm sure that Mr Brooks was not one of them.

tholl
06-21-2011, 05:40 PM
But was it normal for this horse to warm up sore? That's what matters, not if any other animal has a chronic issue.

There was also talk of how unusual it was for the horse to balk at being loaded as Mr. Brooks was doing. I haven't looked at the video in many years, but I'm remembering it being a quite adamant statement on his part that he did not want to load.

Sometimes we do have to listen to what the horses are telling us. I've always thought Mr. Brooks tried to tell us, we ignored it, and he died as a result.

No, he had never had a soundness problem before and had not been hard to load either. Piggott had ridden him maybe for his last eight starts so is odd that he did not do more to have him scratched. Will say that it was the horse's first start on dirt, obviously much harder than turf.

Cardus
06-21-2011, 05:40 PM
I don't see my statement as odd at all. My point was that Swinburn was misquoted. "Sore" and "warming up badly" are different statements. The former sounding alot worse. And yes, alot of horses warm up sore I'm sure that Mr Brooks was not one of them.

I think that the "odd[ity]" of your post was the 20-year gap between the event and hypothesizing about it today.

I don't think that the reaction to your post was about either the nature of horses warming up, or the difference between the words you quoted above.

There isn't a statute of limitations in effect, but it has been 20 years.

tholl
06-21-2011, 05:58 PM
I think that the "odd[ity]" of your post was the 20-year gap between the event and hypothesizing about it today.

I don't think that the reaction to your post was about either the nature of horses warming up, or the difference between the words you quoted above.

There isn't a statute of limitations in effect, but it has been 20 years.

The only reason this thread is here is because of HRTV showing that BC last night. I remember the breakdown but certainly did'nt remember all what was said.
While I may be hypothesizing about the difference between the statements "sore" and "warmed up badly" (maybe Pigggott was indeed meaning sore), I'm not about Swinburn being misquoted. He clearly said that Piggott had said that the horse had "warmed up badly", not sore, to a reporter on NBC just minutes before Neumeir's statement.
Anyway it is minor detail and it's not that slow of a day.

the little guy
06-21-2011, 05:58 PM
But was it normal for this horse to warm up sore? That's what matters, not if any other animal has a chronic issue.

There was also talk of how unusual it was for the horse to balk at being loaded as Mr. Brooks was doing. I haven't looked at the video in many years, but I'm remembering it being a quite adamant statement on his part that he did not want to load.

Sometimes we do have to listen to what the horses are telling us. I've always thought Mr. Brooks tried to tell us, we ignored it, and he died as a result.


The improbable winner of the 9th race at Belmont on Sunday delayed the start for five minutes, even getting so worked up that he had to be resaddled, so now twenty years later, with scattered facts, we are hypothesizing on whether or not this horse should have run?

Amazing stuff.

the little guy
06-21-2011, 05:59 PM
And yes, alot of horses warm up sore I'm sure that Mr Brooks was not one of them.

Really? How's that? Did you ever warm him up?

tholl
06-21-2011, 06:06 PM
Really? How's that? Did you ever warm him up?
Obviously if Mr Brooks warmed up sore in the past Piggott would not have been saying anything about it before the BC right?

the little guy
06-21-2011, 06:12 PM
Obviously if Mr Brooks warmed up sore Piggott would not have been saying anything about it before the BC right?

No. It's not obvious to me.

I stand by my original contention....it must be a slow day.

tholl
06-21-2011, 06:24 PM
No. It's not obvious to me.

I stand by my original contention....it must be a slow day.

Well, Piggott only used about twenty words a day. Sure he would not have wasted half of them talking about something that he expected. Since he rode Mr Brooks seven times before it seems clear that it was odd to him that the horse was not warming up right.

trackrat59
06-21-2011, 06:42 PM
And Shaker Knit went over the top of Mr. Nickerson and was paralyzed.

I remember this race. I left the track and didn't go back for months. To this day I still think about Mr. Nickerson and Shaker Knit. :(

Cardus
06-21-2011, 09:58 PM
Too much conjecture here, I think.

Tom
06-21-2011, 10:54 PM
Yes, Housebuster stepped on himself and was bleeding. Not really an accident.

I don't know the exact injury, but I think you are describing Exogenous, if not exactly.

Housebuster was 1990 and Exogenous was 2001.

Your are right - it was 2001......Exogenous.

Spalding No!
06-22-2011, 01:23 PM
Does anyone have the stats on the frequency of "reluctant to load" comments on first off the plane Europeans in this country?