Most Overrated athletes of all time.

[Zippy Chippy]

I love this list. I'm shocked that Lynn Swann had average stats for a wide receiver. I'm stick sticking w/ Brett Favre.

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/alltimeoverrated.html

[lamboguy]

i am going to go with FRED LYNN in baseball

TONY EASON football

PHIL ESPOSITO hockey

EARL THE PEARL MONROE basketball

MIKE TYSON boxing

GREG NORMAN golf

TODD PLETCHER horseracing

[sonnyp]

i met namath at a restaurant off strip in vegas. had a wonderful conversation about bear bryant, weeb ewbank, and sonny werblin over a few cocktails. he was with "the golden boy" paul hornung. namath couldn't have been any nicer, a real gentleman and the other guy couldn't have acted like a bigger creep. a real condescending jerk.

anyway, the NFL was up 2-0 in superbowls and favored to win by about 19 points against namath and his jets in #3. he predicted the win and delivered outright. he gave the AFL the credibility it sorely needed as to being ale to compete with the NFL on the field.

they merged and what we see today owes a lot to namath and that jet team for proving they could compete.

[Marshall Bennett]

This guy fails to take a lot into consideration. His list is full of flaws, here's a couple. Quarterback stats when Namath played can't be measured by today's standards. You'll find simular comparisons with Unitas, Tarkington, and others that when put along today's quarterbacks and the playing style, isn't really fair.
As for Nolan Ryan, look at the teams he played for. He uses won/loss stats to base his case. That alone shows he's full of shit when measuring a pitcher.
I give his list a D-. He uses all the wrong reasons to break the athlete down.

[Robert Goren]

As much as it hurts for me to agree Rush Limbaugh about anything, I have got go Donovan McNabb at least in pro football.

[Zippy Chippy]

TONY EASON football



Lambo, i gotta ask. I got a good laugh out of this one.. What do you mean overrated? He stunk to begin with :lol:

[Pace Cap'n]

It appears you have to be really, really, good just to be over-rated.

[Zippy Chippy]

It appears you have to be really, really, good just to be over-rated.

Ha! Thought the same thing..

I laughed when i first saw this

Also receiving votes:

Sandy Koufax

Way before my time, but from what i heard he had a short career, but was incredible

[Marshall Bennett]

I laughed when I saw Koufax too. That's as dumb as it gets.

[bigmack]

T.Harding

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2005/01/27/1106845967_9907.jpg

[thaskalos]

"Pete Rose never even came close to Ty Cobb (.366 lifetime BA) at the plate..."

Easily the most illogical sentence I have ever read!

[Casino]

I laughed when I saw Koufax too. That's as dumb as it gets.

Koufax had 6 seasons where he was 36-40 and allowed 13 base runners per 9 innings,and 5 walks per 9 innings and a era of 4.10.


He had 6 tremendous seasons in a 12 year career.Only 1 other pitcher between 1955-1960 had the second worst era in the entire sport only second to ZChuck Stobbs 4.28.Half of Sandy's career he was below average.

Mr.Bennett its the entire career that counts!

[oddsmaven]

Koufax had 6 seasons where he was 36-40 and allowed 13 base runners per 9 innings,and 5 walks per 9 innings and a era of 4.10.


He had 6 tremendous seasons in a 12 year career.Only 1 other pitcher between 1955-1960 had the second worst era in the entire sport only second to ZChuck Stobbs 4.28.Half of Sandy's career he was below average.

Mr.Bennett its the entire career that counts!
It really sounds like you never saw him pitch...I hated the Dodgers but have to admit he was the most dominant pitcher I've seen...doing it for six years isn't exactly a fluke...he came up at age 19, was wild & so it was a matter of maturing and getting steady work at which point he attained terrific command...he had to retire in the midst of his greatness or risk permanent arm damage.

Another point: against the best, he had an 0.95 total ERA in his World Series outings.

[thaskalos]

OVERRATED ATHLETES (Current Era)

FOOTBALL ----- Donovan McNabb

BASEBALL ----- Derek Jeter (Great player...but "Mr. Yankee"? C'mon...)

BASKETBALL -- Dwight Howard

SOCCER ------- David Beckham

[Robert Goren]

Koufax had 6 seasons where he was 36-40 and allowed 13 base runners per 9 innings,and 5 walks per 9 innings and a era of 4.10.


He had 6 tremendous seasons in a 12 year career.Only 1 other pitcher between 1955-1960 had the second worst era in the entire sport only second to ZChuck Stobbs 4.28.Half of Sandy's career he was below average.

Mr.Bennett its the entire career that counts! This kind of foolishness is what happen when someone bury his head in a stat book instead actually watching a game.
Koufax had 6 decent seasons as a back of the rotation starter, but for 6 seasons he was the best pitcher to ever play the game. No one else even close. You average it out and you still get one hell of pitcher. I am a Yankee fan and hate the Dodgers even more than the Red Sox, but I have got to give the Devil his due.

[pandy]

I laughed when I saw Koufax too. That's as dumb as it gets.

I was fortunate enough to see Koufax pitch in person a couple of times, against the Mets. As a Met fan, I idolized Tom Seaver, but Koufax was without a doubt the greatest pitcher I ever saw. True, he did struggle with wildness in his first four seasons and the Dodgers almost cut him! One game he walked the bases loaded and catcher Johnny Roseboro came out to the mound and told him not to throw as hard as he can and just get the ball over the plate and let them hit it (which all catchers say to every pitcher at one time or another). But this time it worked, Koufax took something off, got the side out, won the game and suddenly found himself as a pitcher. After that he was almost unbeatable even though the Dodgers had a weak offense most of his career.

Namath threw a lot of interceptions because he threw the ball long. There was no west coast offense back then with 2 yard passes.

[redshift1]

I was fortunate enough to see Koufax pitch in person a couple of times, against the Mets. As a Met fan, I idolized Tom Seaver, but Koufax was without a doubt the greatest pitcher I ever saw. True, he did struggle with wildness in his first four seasons and the Dodgers almost cut him! One game he walked the bases loaded and catcher Johnny Roseboro came out to the mound and told him not to throw as hard as he can and just get the ball over the plate and let them hit it (which all catchers say to every pitcher at one time or another). But this time it worked, Koufax took something off, got the side out, won the game and suddenly found himself as a pitcher. After that he was almost unbeatable even though the Dodgers had a weak offense most of his career.

Namath threw a lot of interceptions because he threw the ball long. There was no west coast offense back then with 2 yard passes.


That's a good story, when the Dodgers came to LA in 58 Koufax was so wild I hated to see his name in the lineup he changed almost overnight. Most people forget how rough he was initially.

[ElKabong]

Koufax is one of the very few pitchers from my childhood that would dominate today. He was wicked. I recall my first baseball game (at least that I recall from beginning to end ) in '63. That season and 3 or 4 thereafter he was the best in the game

[ElKabong]

most over rated

Football -Favre
Baseball- Sosa
Basketball-Lebron James
Hockey- Derek Sanderson
Cycling-Fignon

Overall-- that clown alpine skier that didn't win jackshit, but bagged millions in endorsements 2-3 yrs ago

[Bettowin]

Wasn't the author of the original article in this thread named Moron or did I misread it?

This could go on forever but my vote is for ...........................

nah not going to keep this one going:)

PS - If I had to vote I would go with Ryan Leaf:)

[Robert Fischer]

Mike Vick

One of them most entertaining players, but statistically(until last season) mediocre. His "feature" 1000 Yard Club Rushing season in '06 totaled a paltry 220 total yards per game (pass+rush). Then in 2010, in his 8th season, Vick "gets a second chance" with an elite passing offense in Philadelphia, and in 12 games averages 310 total yards per game! Manning and Rivers were around 295 last season.
Aberration or new era? You make the call.

[TJDave]

Tony Romo

Mark McGuire

Sergio Garcia

Dale Jr.

Ronaldinho

[Humph]

OVERRATED ATHLETES (Current Era)

FOOTBALL ----- Donovan McNabb

BASEBALL ----- Derek Jeter (Great player...but "Mr. Yankee"? C'mon...)

BASKETBALL -- Dwight Howard

SOCCER ------- David Beckham

In his prime ( in his Manchester United days ; certainly not the past few seasons ), Beckham's dead ball play , passing and crossing were top class . Ok , other aspects of his game weren't on the same level , but , for what it's worth, I wouldn't have called him overrated . Without doubt , he wouldn't have been such an integral part of Alex Ferguson's plans if he wasn't good enough.

[Marshall Bennett]

I saw Koufax pitch for the first time on my first trip to the Astrodome. The attendance that Sunday afternoon stood as a record for decades. He beat the Astros 3-1, Joe Morgan hit a towering home run off Sandy that cleared the centerfield fence by 40 or 50 ft. for the Astros only run.
I was just a kid, but will never forget how dominating he was. I always felt he and Nolan Ryan were in a league of their own. So sad his career was cut so short. What numbers he could have put up.
To even suggest Koufax was overrated is insane. He was amazing.

[Casino]

I never said Koufax wasnt a great pitcher,but like others he had his years where he was the best pitcher in baseball.
Pedro Martinez had a era in the low 2's for 7 years at FENWAY IN THE STEROID ERA.
MADDUX was unbelievable in the steroid era sub 3 era 4 cy youngs.
Clemens had his dominace in baseballl for over 15 years.
Koufax was great but far from the greatest,Martinez,Maddux,Clemens had better CAREERS,thats a fact.

[PhantomOnTour]

most over rated

Football -Favre
Baseball- Sosa
Basketball-Lebron James
Hockey- Derek Sanderson
Cycling-Fignon

Overall-- that clown alpine skier that didn't win jackshit, but bagged millions in endorsements 2-3 yrs ago
Bode Miller?
Bob Baffert's son Bode was named after him.

[oddsmaven]

Casino,

The topic was "overrated", not who had great longevity...I guess Koufax was lucky to make the hall of fame, a place that has been cheapened by this fairly recent love of voting in "compilers" instead of limited to the true great ones.

Sandy is easily in the argument for greatest pitcher EVER...you named three great pitchers but I can't say that about Maddux, who incidently was 11-14 in postseason...and Clemens later years were helped along by HGH...Koufax would never have exhibited such a lack of character.

As one of the earlier posters noted to you, it is foolish to make everything stats and not judge by what is seen...you didn't say but surely you never saw Koufax pitch, otherwise it's hard to imagine anyone calling him overrated.

[Casino]

Casino,

The topic was "overrated", not who had great longevity...I guess Koufax was lucky to make the hall of fame, a place that has been cheapened by this fairly recent love of voting in "compilers" instead of limited to the true great ones.

Sandy is easily in the argument for greatest pitcher EVER...you named three great pitchers but I can't say that about Maddux, who incidently was 11-14 in postseason...and Clemens later years were helped along by HGH...Koufax would never have exhibited such a lack of character.

As one of the earlier posters noted to you, it is foolish to make everything stats and not judge by what is seen...you didn't say but surely you never saw Koufax pitch, otherwise it's hard to imagine anyone calling him overrated.

You have a point never saw Koufax pitch but saw the other 3,in order to be overrated it means you are called great or else they would be no use for the word.Post season yes Maddux wasnt at his best but neither was Bonds til his last postseason.Clemens was great before hgh.I read plenty on Koufax,Stargell said trying to hit his breaking pitch was like trying to eat soup with a fork.
Look carefully at Madduxs numbers absolute dominate for a long time and so was Martinez in my opinion both were as good as Koufax,in a era where hitters had a huge advanatge.

[Robert Goren]

I never said Koufax wasnt a great pitcher,but like others he had his years where he was the best pitcher in baseball.
Pedro Martinez had a era in the low 2's for 7 years at FENWAY IN THE STEROID ERA.
MADDUX was unbelievable in the steroid era sub 3 era 4 cy youngs.
Clemens had his dominace in baseballl for over 15 years.
Koufax was great but far from the greatest,Martinez,Maddux,Clemens had better CAREERS,thats a fact. I was alive for Koufax and the rest. I don't care what kind of stats you throw out there, anyone who saw him during his prime knows that none of those guys was even close to him during their prime. Martinez came the closest, but even he wasn't really in the same ball park.

[Casino]

I was alive for Koufax and the rest. I don't care what kind of stats you throw out there, anyone who saw him during his prime knows that none of those guys was even close to him during their prime. Martinez came the closest, but even he wasn't really in the same ball park.

RG,baseball is a numbers game thats what we use.HOF is all about numbers and all im saying is Koufax had amazing numbers for 6 years out of 12.Overrated career you cant take away the other 6 years.

[Marshall Bennett]

Koufax was great but far from the greatest,Martinez,Maddux,Clemens had better CAREERS,thats a fact.

That is not a fact.
Career ERA : Martinez 2.93 Maddux 3.16 Clemens 3.12 Koufax 2.76

A pitchers quality is measured first in his earned run average. Only his carrer wins fall short in important pitching stats. He pitched only 12 seasons. You can also compare strikeouts per 9 innings pitched, hits per 9 inning ratio, win/loss percentage, and there are more.
Koufax's career was "in fact" superior to those you mentioned.

[Johnny V]

If it came down to just one game, everything on the line and I wanted a left handed starter Koo-foo gets the call. Koufax was the best I ever saw.

[PhantomOnTour]

I love this list. I'm shocked that Lynn Swann had average stats for a wide receiver. I'm stick sticking w/ Brett Favre.

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/alltimeoverrated.html
Gotta disagree on Favre. He won 3 straight MVP awards (no one has done that...not sure if anyone has even won 3, much less consecutively) and during his tenure with the Packers they had the best record in the NFL for that time span.
He had a very nice year with the Vikings and almost made it back to the Super Bowl.
Yes, his foolish late game interceptions cannot be overlooked, but neither can the all time records. I believe longevity (aka DURABILITY!)is a big factor, esp in football, which is brutal. Favre was not a stat compiler imo...he just loved to play football and didn't want to stop.
No tougher man than Brett Favre...i saw him get knocked s**tless by the Steelers, then get up and puke in the huddle, then throw a TD to win the game.

[Casino]

That is not a fact.
Career ERA : Martinez 2.93 Maddux 3.16 Clemens 3.12 Koufax 2.76

A pitchers quality is measured first in his earned run average. Only his carrer wins fall short in important pitching stats. He pitched only 12 seasons. You can also compare strikeouts per 9 innings pitched, hits per 9 inning ratio, win/loss percentage, walks per 9 innings, and there are more.
Koufax's career was "in fact" superior to those you mentioned.

Martinez,Maddux,Clemens pitched in a era where players were on steroirds and these pitchers dominated that era.And they also pitched alot longer if they hadnt pitched past here prime there era would be 1 run less.

RANDY JOHNSON was 303-166 era of 3.29 again in a steroid era.Won cy young 5 times,led league in era 4 times World series MVP,perfect game.Better numbers then Koufax.

[Casino]

That is not a fact.
Career ERA : Martinez 2.93 Maddux 3.16 Clemens 3.12 Koufax 2.76

A pitchers quality is measured first in his earned run average. Only his carrer wins fall short in important pitching stats. He pitched only 12 seasons. You can also compare strikeouts per 9 innings pitched, hits per 9 inning ratio, win/loss percentage, and there are more.
Koufax's career was "in fact" superior to those you mentioned.

Mr.Bennett i said better career not stats and yes thats a fact>

[Marshall Bennett]

Mr.Bennett i said better career not stats and yes thats a fact>
What do you call Koufax's career, a part time job? The facts & figures don't add up in your assessment.

[Marshall Bennett]

RANDY JOHNSON was 303-166 era of 3.29 again in a steroid era.Won cy young 5 times,led league in era 4 times World series MVP,perfect game.Better numbers then Koufax.
Koufax pitched 4 no-hitters including a perfect game as well. Was dominating in World Series play including 2 wins in a sweep of the Yankees. He pitched only 12 seasons.
Where are you going in your comparison?

[Casino]

Koufax pitched 4 no-hitters including a perfect game as well. Was dominating in World Series play including 2 wins in a sweep of the Yankees. He pitched only 12 seasons.
Where are you going in your comparison?
MB my point is Koufax was only great 6 years thats only half his career.The pitchers i have listed were better alot longer.

How can you say Koufax was the greatest or even say he was the greatest lefty when others have better numbers and pitched alot longer.Koufax's career isnt even comparable to Johnson's career.

[Marshall Bennett]

MB my point is Koufax was only great 6 years thats only half his career.The pitchers i have listed were better alot longer.

How can you say Koufax was the greatest or even say he was the greatest lefty when others have better numbers and pitched alot longer.Koufax's career isnt even comparable to Johnson's career.
Well, if you want to look at it from that perspective. You point out that Koufax was only "great" for 6 of his 12 years. I just checked out Johnson's career and counted no fewer than 11 that would be considered far from great out of his 22 years. Perhaps a half dozen would be considered "great" by your standard.
So there ya go. Go to Baseball Reference and check it out for yourself. Look up the others you mentioned while your at it. Most baseball historians I'm sure will tell you Koufax was a better pitcher than any you've mentioned.

[Canarsie]

MB my point is Koufax was only great 6 years thats only half his career.The pitchers i have listed were better alot longer.

How can you say Koufax was the greatest or even say he was the greatest lefty when others have better numbers and pitched alot longer.Koufax's career isnt even comparable to Johnson's career.

I'm not getting into this argument but one has to remember the Dodgers had to keep Koufax on the roster due to signing rules back then. He had to learn on the job not like today's players.

http://www.baseballdigest.com/2010/12/30/baseball-digest-birthdays-sandy-koufax/

I was lucky enough to see him pitch against the Mets in the Polo Grounds. Casey Stengel was notorious for falling asleep during games. I snuck down by the Mets dugout the score was 5-0 in favor of the Dodgers. Casey wasn't sleeping but the look of "awe" on his face is something I never forgot.

[Zippy Chippy]

I found anothers guy list online and number 3 was "ALL CLOSERS"..Which i thought it funny cause ive always said Closers are overrated. Go in with a three run lead almost any pitcher can close it. I dont watch baseball, but I remember that guy K ROD for Angels had a great year and got all sorts of money. The team had a great year. I was thinking almost any closer that played that year for the Angels would have had great stats also.

[PhantomOnTour]

I found anothers guy list online and number 3 was "ALL CLOSERS"..Which i thought it funny cause ive always said Closers are overrated. Go in with a three run lead almost any pitcher can close it. I dont watch baseball, but I remember that guy K ROD for Angels had a great year and got all sorts of money. The team had a great year. I was thinking almost any closer that played that year for the Angels would have had great stats also.
We agree on this...which closer is one of only two pitchers in the Hall Of Fame who have a losing lifetime record?

[Hank]

This kind of foolishness is what happen when someone bury his head in a stat book instead actually watching a game.
Koufax had 6 decent seasons as a back of the rotation starter, but for 6 seasons he was the best pitcher to ever play the game. No one else even close. You average it out and you still get one hell of pitcher. I am a Yankee fan and hate the Dodgers even more than the Red Sox, but I have got to give the Devil his due.

Bingo.When Koufax had that yellow hammer working you were dead meat pure and simple, it remains the filthiest pitch I have ever seen with my own two eyes.
Koufax overrated :lol:

[ArlJim78]

I agree with many on the list, like Namath. But I can't call Nolan Ryan or Sandy Koufax overrated. I was fortunate enough to have seen both of them pitch. What they could do with the ball was simply phenomenal.

[pandy]

Koufax and Nolan Ryan had very similar turnarounds. They both started out as hard throwers who couldn't find the plate. They both had a big breaking curveball. They both learned not to overthrow and control their pitches. And they both developed excellent off speed pitches, Koufax developed an excellent palm ball and Ryan a fork ball (split finger).

[Pace Cap'n]

Does anyone suppose that National League hitters in the Koufax era thought of him as overrated?

[Valuist]

Joe Namath career numbers:
173 TD passes
220 interceptions

That's right. 47 MORE picks than TD passes.

[Marshall Bennett]

Koufax and Nolan Ryan had very similar turnarounds. They both started out as hard throwers who couldn't find the plate. They both had a big breaking curveball. They both learned not to overthrow and control their pitches. And they both developed excellent off speed pitches, Koufax developed an excellent palm ball and Ryan a fork ball (split finger).
Koufax threw a hook with what is called tight rotation. Pitchers with long fingers are able to snap more rotation if controlled properly and throw much harder than a normal curve. Hitters have much more difficulty knowing if it's a fastball or not till it's right in front of them. Dwight Gooden had success early in his career throwing it. Koufax may have had one of the best curves in baseball. Nolan threw his slower, but with his fastball it didn't really matter.

[PaceAdvantage]

OVERRATED ATHLETES (Current Era)

BASEBALL ----- Derek Jeter (Great player...but "Mr. Yankee"? C'mon...)You label him a great player, yet he also qualifies as most overrated for you in all of baseball? How can that be?

EbRo_anmIDc

poNyniQ5eCY

[thaskalos]

Never have I seen a baseball player so beloved by the national media. He just can't seem to do anything wrong...even when he is caught up in a long batting slump.

For years the Yankees have been called "Jeter's team"...but in no year has he even gotten close to being their best player.

[dav4463]

i met namath at a restaurant off strip in vegas. had a wonderful conversation about bear bryant, weeb ewbank, and sonny werblin over a few cocktails. he was with "the golden boy" paul hornung. namath couldn't have been any nicer, a real gentleman and the other guy couldn't have acted like a bigger creep. a real condescending jerk.

anyway, the NFL was up 2-0 in superbowls and favored to win by about 19 points against namath and his jets in #3. he predicted the win and delivered outright. he gave the AFL the credibility it sorely needed as to being ale to compete with the NFL on the field.

they merged and what we see today owes a lot to namath and that jet team for proving they could compete.



It's not all about stats. Namath was a guy whose teammates would go to war for him. He carried an entire league on his back and set the stage for the superstar athlete of today. He had groupies! He even guest starred on The Brady Bunch! Overrated....NO WAY! Just imagine what he could have done with two decent knees!

In Namath's day, Quarterbacks were men! Guys like Namath, Lamonica, Dawson, Unitas, Hadl etc.... didn't throw 1 yd outs....that's what running backs were for! Also, they threw downfield to receivers who got bumped, knocked down, run over, held, shoved, etc....and still completed big plays! In fact a 45 yard interception was as good as a punt for Namath....if it is caught for a TD...great.....otherwise, it's as good as a punt. Stats weren't as important then to the player.

Also, if you hear from his peers....the guys who played against him every Sunday....they thought Namath was one of the absolute best. Al Davis said he was so talented, he tipped the field!

Namath is an icon who represented an entirely "new" style of pro athlete. He understood it was also about entertainment, selling tickets, and competing at the highest level. Engineering a win in Super Bowl III as a 19 point underdog is enough to put him in the hall of fame by itself.

[Valuist]

It's not all about stats. Namath was a guy whose teammates would go to war for him. He carried an entire league on his back and set the stage for the superstar athlete of today. He had groupies! He even guest starred on The Brady Bunch! Overrated....NO WAY! Just imagine what he could have done with two decent knees!

The groupie argument is irrelevant. He still threw 47 more interceptions than touchdowns. Those numbers do not lie. No QB with that bad a ratio has ever been so beloved. If he played anywhere besides New York he would never have been so well remembered.

[ElKabong]

[QUOTE=Canarsie]
I was lucky enough to see him pitch against the Mets in the Polo Grounds. QUOTE]

Not to hijack the thread, but I wonder why none of the new retro parks were built in the Polo Grounds configuration, or a facsimily (sp?) thereof?

the desktop background on my puter at work is a pic of the Polo Grounds. Quirky to the point of greatness. Wish I could have seen a game there

[ElKabong]

The groupie argument is irrelevant. He still threw 47 more interceptions than touchdowns. Those numbers do not lie. No QB with that bad a ratio has ever been so beloved. If he played anywhere besides New York he would never have been so well remembered.

I'll take up for Namath a bit here....Before his 2nd set of knee surgeries he was awesome. If you were lucky enuff to see him play at Bama, you saw something very special. Staubach-like. In that era Namath was unbelieveably great when needed (Bryant played close to the vest back then)

"Passing" is 90% footwork, as coaches will tell us all. With knees as bad as his got after 1969, he didn't have the foundation needed to be anything like he was in his prime.

The thing I'll always remember (pre- injured) Namath for is that quick release. No one was as quick as Namath until Marino came along. The ball was GONE as soon as it was by his ear. Also, running the ball was a big part of Joe's game until that first knee knifing

So yes, his post super bowl stats are awful....simply b/c he was a shell of what he was prior to 1969. With 2 healthy knees he would be a top 5 all time QB imo

[pandy]

It's not all about stats. Namath was a guy whose teammates would go to war for him. He carried an entire league on his back and set the stage for the superstar athlete of today. He had groupies! He even guest starred on The Brady Bunch! Overrated....NO WAY! Just imagine what he could have done with two decent knees!

In Namath's day, Quarterbacks were men! Guys like Namath, Lamonica, Dawson, Unitas, Hadl etc.... didn't throw 1 yd outs....that's what running backs were for! Also, they threw downfield to receivers who got bumped, knocked down, run over, held, shoved, etc....and still completed big plays! In fact a 45 yard interception was as good as a punt for Namath....if it is caught for a TD...great.....otherwise, it's as good as a punt. Stats weren't as important then to the player.

Also, if you hear from his peers....the guys who played against him every Sunday....they thought Namath was one of the absolute best. Al Davis said he was so talented, he tipped the field!

Namath is an icon who represented an entirely "new" style of pro athlete. He understood it was also about entertainment, selling tickets, and competing at the highest level. Engineering a win in Super Bowl III as a 19 point underdog is enough to put him in the hall of fame by itself.

I could not agree with you more about everything you said. Stats don't tell the whole story. My dad only bet on a sporting contest once in his life, he bet on the Jets when they won the S.Bowl. He told me, "any team that has Joe Namath shouldn't be a 19 pt underdog, that's ridiculous." Namath used to routinely complete passes between 20 and 40 yards plus all the long bombs and he could do it while under tremendous pressure in the pocket.

When Sonny Werblin talked the Jets into giving Namath a $400,000 signing bonus, unheard of back then, Werblin said, "when Namath walks into a room you know he's there." He believed that Namath would not only make the Jets a winner but that he would fill the stadium and bring in big TV contracts. Right on all accounts.

[ElKabong]

I could not agree with you more about everything you said. Stats don't tell the whole story. My dad only bet on a sporting contest once in his life, he bet on the Jets when they won the S.Bowl. He told me, "any team that has Joe Namath shouldn't be a 19 pt underdog, that's ridiculous." Namath used to routinely complete passes between 20 and 40 yards plus all the long bombs and he could do it while under tremendous pressure in the pocket.

When Sonny Werblin talked the Jets into giving Namath a $400,000 signing bonus, unheard of back then, Werblin said, "when Namath walks into a room you know he's there." He believed that Namath would not only make the Jets a winner but that he would fill the stadium and bring in big TV contracts. Right on all accounts.

Not only that, but he banged Farah Fawcett too. Do that, and a Canton bust is a mere formality. :)

Trivia question that isn't too far from this subject.....who is the only player to win a D1 football national championship, a super bowl, and a t-bred training title?....I can tell you this, he was a big guy for his position in his era, hit like a truck and could play QB if he had to. And a damn nice guy to boot. If you went up to him after he sent a horse to the track he was happy to show off his SB ring & talk football, esp his alma mater's program

[WPL]

The MOST overrated in any sport?

DUKE the tax cheat SNYDNER

G. Bless him, he passed on recently, but he was TOTALLY overrated.

Willie, Mickey and the WHAT?

My ass.

[Canarsie]

Never have I seen a baseball player so beloved by the national media. He just can't seem to do anything wrong...even when he is caught up in a long batting slump.

For years the Yankees have been called "Jeter's team"...but in no year has he even gotten close to being their best player.


I'm a huge Red Sox fan and you are probably right. But name me one other
shortstop who would have been in position to make a play like this. Not even the great Ozzie Smith would have been there.


http://www.uhnd.com/bb/forum/index.php?action=display&forumid=2&msgid=77908

No scandals, always positive press, future Hall of Famer, what more can you ask from one person who really isn't an all time great.

[Robert Goren]

The groupie argument is irrelevant. He still threw 47 more interceptions than touchdowns. Those numbers do not lie. No QB with that bad a ratio has ever been so beloved. If he played anywhere besides New York he would never have been so well remembered.Numbers lie all the time. As a horse race bettor you know that or least you should.

[cj's dad]

Joe Namath career numbers:
173 TD passes
220 interceptions

That's right. 47 MORE picks than TD passes.

After SB III, the next time the Colts played the Jets was at Shea on 10-18-70 and this time Joe was facing Johnny Unitas. Colts win 29-22.

Joe's stats - 34-62--- 397 yds. 1 TD & 6 Ints.
JU's stats- 12-24 -- 206 yds. 1 TD & 3 Ints.

At this time JU was 37 years old.

Was Joe overrated ? Yes, although he was fun to watch.

[Marshall Bennett]

Much of Joe's glory surrounds his leading the Jets to it's upset of the heavily favored Colts in the Super Bowl, one which he publically predicted. He did hold the passing yard record for a single season for a few years, 4007 in 1967.
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I'm not sure it's fair to compare stats of quarterbacks 40 years ago to those today. Even Johnny Unitas who many believe may have been the best had stats that if were compiled today would be considered below average. His career comp. percentage was 54%. He only threw 37 more TD's than interceptions. His overall rating for his career was 78.2.
These are better stats than Joe had, but far from superstar status by today's standards.
On a side note, O.J. Simpson being placed on this list is a complete joke as well. As much as I dislike the jerk, he probably had the best moves of any running back that ever played. The author of this list has a bad habit of throwing in the bad years of a player's career to justify his claims. All the greats from Babe Ruth to almost all others had bad years. The greats are judged on their good years, not the bad.

[PhantomOnTour]

which closer is one of only two pitchers in the Hall Of Fame who have a losing lifetime record?
Anyone?
I think this guy was overrated

[Marshall Bennett]

Rollie Fingers?

[PhantomOnTour]

Rollie Fingers?
Score :ThmbUp: ...it's Rollie
I hate closers...the save is a useless stat imo.

[ArlJim78]

On a side note, O.J. Simpson being placed on this list is a complete joke as well. As much as I dislike the jerk, he probably had the best moves of any running back that ever played.
While I agree with your comments on the juice, and that he really doesn't belong on any overrated list and had great moves, the alltime best moves I have ever seen by a running back were made by Barry Sanders, who might be a candidate for an underrated list. the guy was from another planet in the way he made cuts and spins.

[Marshall Bennett]

Score :ThmbUp: ...it's Rollie
I hate closers...the save is a useless stat imo.
Bruce Sutter had a losing record as well. Was he the other?

[cj's dad]

I nominate Jim Taylor.

Only had one year where he averaged more than 100 YPG (105) - 1962- when the Pack was 13-1. His best years were 60'-62' when the teams record was 32-8. His career rushing per game average is 65.

I think he was the beneficiary of playing with some very good players; Hornung, Starr, Dowler, McGee, Thurston Kramer etc... Many stars and future HOFer's on those teams. Not to say he wasn't a plus for them but simply a good player in the right place at the right time.

[Marshall Bennett]

I'm sure Paul Hornung cut into Taylor's glory and what numbers he may have put up on any other team. That may well have been the best backfield ever.

[DJofSD]

OVERRATED ATHLETES (Current Era)

FOOTBALL ----- Donovan McNabb

BASEBALL ----- Derek Jeter (Great player...but "Mr. Yankee"? C'mon...)

BASKETBALL -- Dwight Howard

SOCCER ------- David Beckham
Soccer: Renaldo -- at least biggest cry baby.

[magwell]

While I agree with your comments on the juice, and that he really doesn't belong on any overrated list and had great moves, the alltime best moves I have ever seen by a running back were made by Barry Sanders, who might be a candidate for an underrated list. the guy was from another planet in the way he made cuts and spins. Exactly right.... on the underrated list should be a pix of Barry Sanders.

[Valuist]

Anyone?
I think this guy was overrated

Yeah but closers are rarely in a situation to earn the win. They used to get wins when they'd pitch 2 innings, give up the lead in the first inning they pitch, their team regains the lead, then they finish the game.

[cj]

My list:

Baseball: Nolan Ryan
Football: Brett Favre
Hockey: Jaromir Jagr
Basketball: Lebron James

[Marshall Bennett]

Been thinking about this, have decided to go with Pee Wee Reese in baseball and Terry Bradshaw with football.

[PhantomOnTour]

Bruce Sutter had a losing record as well. Was he the other?
Yep, it's Sutter...i'm full of baseball junk...

Cy Young: most wins and losses (316)
Nolan Ryan:ranks in the top 3 in all time losses (approx 292)
Walter Johnson:ranks in the top 5 in all time losses

[Valuist]

Yep, it's Sutter...i'm full of baseball junk...

Cy Young: most wins and losses (316)
Nolan Ryan:ranks in the top 3 in all time losses (approx 292)
Walter Johnson:ranks in the top 5 in all time losses

Sutter was definitely NOT overrated. He often pitched the final 3 innings of a game when a closer REALLY was a closer. Now they start with a clean slate in the 9th inning. Managers used to have to make a decision to bring in the "fireman" with one out in the 7th if that was the game situation. Now there's no brainwork. Just have long relief, a set up guy in the 8th and a "closer" in the 9th. We can thank Tony LaRussa for this bit of "genius".

[ElKabong]

re: Nolan Ryan....all I remember of the guy was, in the 70s as an Angel he'd walk the winning run more often thna anyone I ever saw. I was a Ranger fanatic at the time, Nolan seemed to waste a lot of pitches & coughed up a lot of uneccessary runs

Have to admire his stamina and his fastballl....but in the 70s he was overrated. Good, yes. Valuable, yes- he ate up innings like a good starter does, but you didn't see Palmer or Koufax piss away games like Nolan did in the 70s

[sandpit]

Been thinking about this, have decided to go with Pee Wee Reese in baseball and Terry Bradshaw with football.

Reese may not be a superstar, but he was a mainstay for so many years and I believe was one of the better defensive shortstops of all times in terms of dps and fielding percentage. I'm a bit biased, since he lived down the street from one of my best friends and was just a great down to earth guy to talk to, zero pretension in his soul.

Bradshaw, I think, had only 3 300-yard games in his career, but he did have Harris, Bleier and good ol' Frenchy Fuqua to hand the ball to. Plus, the guy was 4-0 in Super Bowls, equaled only by Joe Montana. I remember when some guy on the Fox pre-game show asked Terry about playing in big games, and he said he got less and less nervous as the stakes got higher. True definition of a leader and there's no way to overrate that.

[sandpit]

While I agree with your comments on the juice, and that he really doesn't belong on any overrated list and had great moves, the alltime best moves I have ever seen by a running back were made by Barry Sanders, who might be a candidate for an underrated list. the guy was from another planet in the way he made cuts and spins.

http://paceadvantage.com/forum/images/UBGX/I9.gifhttp://paceadvantage.com/forum/images/UBGX/I9.gifhttp://paceadvantage.com/forum/images/UBGX/I9.gif Greatest rb ever and I don't even think it's close. If he was on a good team, his rushing yardage totals would be in the same untouchable class as Jerry Rice's receiving records.

[ElKabong]

If Barry Sanders ran behind the same line Emmitt Smith did for 10 yrs, he'd have gained 2000 more rushing yds than Emmitt

Last memory I have of Emmitt was him crying in the postgame interviews after Roy Williams broke his collarbone. With a great line, Emmitt got the yards. With a poor line he couldn't stay healthy, let alone be productive.....Sanders was in a league of his own during his era

Best rb of all time IMO was Gale Sayers. Before injuries, he did things no one saw before. Talk about running behind a crappy line & he also had crappy QB's on the field....he had to be a one man show

[Marshall Bennett]

Reese may not be a superstar, but he was a mainstay for so many years and I believe was one of the better defensive shortstops of all times in terms of dps and fielding percentage. I'm a bit biased, since he lived down the street from one of my best friends and was just a great down to earth guy to talk to, zero pretension in his soul.

Bradshaw, I think, had only 3 300-yard games in his career, but he did have Harris, Bleier and good ol' Frenchy Fuqua to hand the ball to. Plus, the guy was 4-0 in Super Bowls, equaled only by Joe Montana. I remember when some guy on the Fox pre-game show asked Terry about playing in big games, and he said he got less and less nervous as the stakes got higher. True definition of a leader and there's no way to overrate that.
Reese was indeed a very good defensive force. Still, putting his fielding and batting stats together imo doesn't add up to hall of fame material. The same could be said of Nellie Fox, who perhaps is even more deserving than Reese as being deemed overrated.
As for Bradshaw, his numbers are at best average, probably worse. His overall quarterback rating was lower than Namath's, who was blasted here for being overrated. He completed 51% of his passes even though he had two of the best receivers in the game. He did play on 4 super bowl teams which is surely a checkmark, but I'm not sure he had a whole lot to do with it in that any other quarterback on that Steeler's team would have had simular success, probably more.

[dav4463]

Anybody find the picture of Namath in the fur coat on the Jets sideline? He is stylin' and Profilin' while everybody else is all dirty and cold!

That's Namath! He was Ric Flair before Ric Flair! He was Deion Sanders before Deion Sanders! He set the bar for showmanship in sports/entertainment, much like Muhammed Ali.

[Pace Cap'n]

Maybe there is a reason they call it the Hall Of Fame instead of The Hall Of Numbers.

[Valuist]

Anybody find the picture of Namath in the fur coat on the Jets sideline? He is stylin' and Profilin' while everybody else is all dirty and cold!

That's Namath! He was Ric Flair before Ric Flair! He was Deion Sanders before Deion Sanders! He set the bar for showmanship in sports/entertainment, much like Muhammed Ali.

None of that should qualify anyone for the Hall of Fame. And despite what Pace Capn's post says, for 99% of the athletes in the major sports, you'd better have the numbers or you aren't getting in.

[dav4463]

Robert Horry never had great numbers, but was an integral part of many NBA championships.

Statistically, Danny White is every bit as good as Roger Staubach!

Statistically, Jeff George is much better than Terry Bradshaw!

Numbers aren't everything.

[pandy]

Good points. Great defensive players tend not to look good on paper. Bill Russell was a great NBA player but he hardly ever scored more than 10 points in a game; neither did his opposition.

[cj's dad]

Good points. Great defensive players tend not to look good on paper. Bill Russell was a great NBA player but he hardly ever scored more than 10 points in a game; neither did his opposition.

Except Wilt

[Robert Fischer]

Except Wilt

If Wilt played in today's NBA, he'd score like 10pts/8rebounds

[cj's dad]

If Wilt played in today's NBA, he'd score like 10pts/8rebounds

But he didn't

[toussaud]

http://www.epicweird.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/epicphotos4361.jpg

[Robert Fischer]

But he didn't
10/8 is pretty damn good for a man in his 70s

[cj]

If Wilt played in today's NBA, he'd score like 10pts/8rebounds

Do you say this because of the plethora of quality centers in the NBA, which number about 1.5?

[cj]

10/8 is pretty damn good for a man in his 70s

You know he died, right?

[KingChas]

Hard to believe Nolan Ryan is mentioned here.
If anything he was underated.
7 no hitters is an easy feat?
Played for some great ballclubs also.....Angels/Astros/Rangers/Mets 1966-1993.

Anyway the most overated athlete award is already covered 100% by auto racing.

Dale Jr..........name
Danica..........gender

By a landslide............................ ;)

Of course Tony Romo looms large.... :eek:

[Greyfox]

If Wilt played in today's NBA, he'd score like 10pts/8rebounds

Doubtful but.....yeah sure... your opinion is probably well thought out, but....
Wilt was great in his era. Comparatively he shone.
There is no question that Wilt Chamberlain was great in his day, including a triple digit game.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Warriorswas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Warriorswas) great.

Can any of them since , (or admit to) matching him in off the court dunks too....:lol:
(Comparing different eras is a fool's game, including horse racing.)

[Marshall Bennett]

Hard to believe Nolan Ryan is mentioned here.
If anything he was underated.
7 no hitters is an easy feat?
Played for some great ballclubs also.....Angels/Astros/Rangers/Mets 1966-1993.

Anyway the most overated athlete award is already covered 100% by auto racing.

Dale Jr..........name
Danica..........gender

By a landslide............................ ;)

Of course Tony Romo looms large.... :eek:
Nolan's career strikeouts stand alone as well. This is a record that's safe, as much so as any other.
Dale Jr. wouldn't be anyone had his daddy not died on the track. I'm not sure I agree with you on Danica. Being an attractive female indy car driver is an achievement in itself. She's not bad either.

[cj]

Hard to believe Nolan Ryan is mentioned here.
If anything he was underated.
7 no hitters is an easy feat?
Played for some great ballclubs also.....Angels/Astros/Rangers/Mets 1966-1993.


He is overrated in the sense that winning counts more than strikeouts and no hitters. He was a little over 500 and won 20 games a total of twice. He didn't win a single Cy Young award, so not even once was he considered the best pitcher in his league for even a single season.

[cj's dad]

I doubt Ryan would have been a starter on the O's 4 - 20 game winner staff.

Maybe #4 ahead of Dobson- maybe !

[Marshall Bennett]

I doubt Ryan would have been a starter on the O's 4 - 20 game winner staff.

Maybe #4 ahead of Dobson- maybe !
You must be kidding. Ryan would have been a starter anywhere. Knock the guy all you want, but enough is enough. Had he played with any half decent teams in his prime I'm sure he would have been a cy young winner. You and your son almost talk as if he was a shitty pitcher. Come on!!!

[thaskalos]

You must be kidding. Ryan would have been a starter anywhere. Knock the guy all you want, but enough is enough. Had he played with any half decent teams in his prime I'm sure he would have been a cy young winner.
I agree 100%!

How bad were some of those teams that Ryan pitched for?

In 1987, he accumulated a record of 8 wins and 16 losses pitching for the Astros...and he had an ERA of 2.76!

In 1972, while pitching for the Angels, he had an ERA of 2.28...and yet only finished with a record of 19-16.

[Marshall Bennett]

He was elected to the hall of fame in 1st year of eligibility as well. Someone liked him. :)

[Robert Fischer]

wilt was just as good as Jordan or anyone else. Freak athlete and workhorse combined.
It was a poorly executed joke meaning that Wilt would only score 10ppg in Today's NBA - not bad for a 75yo man!.

Doubtful but.....yeah sure... your opinion is probably well thought out, but....
Wilt was great in his era. Comparatively he shone.
There is no question that Wilt Chamberlain was great in his day, including a triple digit game.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Warriors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Warriorswas)was (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Warriorswas) great.

Can any of them since , (or admit to) matching him in off the court dunks too....:lol:
(Comparing different eras is a fool's game, including horse racing.)

[Robert Fischer]

Ryan is in some ways similar to Ripken.
Some GREAT moments.
Lots of GOOD seasons.
and career achievements that were AMAZING.

at any one point in their career they may have been "overrated" in terms of ability, but they were modern day iron men.


I agree 100%!

How bad were some of those teams that Ryan pitched for?

In 1987, he accumulated a record of 8 wins and 16 losses pitching for the Astros...and he had an ERA of 2.76!

In 1972, while pitching for the Angels, he had an ERA of 2.28...and yet only finished with a record of 19-16.

[thaskalos]

wilt was just as good as Jordan or anyone else. Freak athlete and workhorse combined.
It was a poorly executed joke meaning that Wilt would only score 10ppg in Today's NBA - not bad for a 75yo man!.
I actually saw a situation exactly like this on the sports show "Up Close"...with Roy Firestone.

The guest was baseball immortal Ted Williams, who was close to the end of his life at that time.

The conversation went something like this:

Roy F: "Ted...do you think that pitchers are better and stronger today than they were back when YOU used to play?

Ted W: "Well...yes Roy...but not only the pitchers; I think ALL players are better and stronger today than they were then. It's the natural order of things..."

Roy F: "What do you think your batting average would be if you were playing in the majors today?

Ted W: "I don't know....285...290?

Roy F: "Really? You think pitching has gotten THAT better in recent years?"

Ted W: "Well Roy...you have to consider that I am now 79 years old..."

[Hank]

The Ryan express,this is a tricky one,in that he was likely the greatest "thrower" with the best "arm" of all time.#1 all time in lifetime batting avg against.[A telling stat] Best pitcher off all time no way, overrated?.Did anyone quantify were he was rated?When all the marbles were on the line give me Gibson,Koufax,Pedro,or Seaver.I like my chances.

[Robert Fischer]

teddy ballgame ^^

[TJDave]

After watching yesterday's Copa de Oro final I'd like to offer up the U.S. national team. :rolleyes:

[Zippy Chippy]

I think its funny when you Google most overrated athletes on a lot of sites they mention TVGs own Paul loduca

[pandy]

I'm a Met fan but I thought Loduca was a terrific player, fiercely competitive and a very tough out at the plate. Catchers batting averages are always lower than the other players because of their injuries and slow speed.

[PhantomOnTour]

...anyone who plays golf.
They simply aren't athletes at all.

[Marshall Bennett]

Oh yeah? Try walking 18 holes in 98 degree heat and come back and tell me that. Golf is a sport last time I checked, that makes golfers athletes.

[Canarsie]

This is a fun discussion to read. But just think almost all of the guys that are being discussed are still in the top 2% of their respective sport all time. That itself is a major accomplishment.

[Valuist]

I think its funny when you Google most overrated athletes on a lot of sites they mention TVGs own Paul loduca

Was this as a handicapper or a baseball player? :lol:

[PhantomOnTour]

Oh yeah? Try walking 18 holes in 98 degree heat and come back and tell me that. Golf is a sport last time I checked, that makes golfers athletes.
Is it the walking or the heat that makes them athletes?
My mother walks that far every morning in the Louisiana heat.
She is 70 yrs old.
Now; if they RAN 18 holes you'd have a good point.....

[Robert Fischer]

Was this as a handicapper or a baseball player? :lol:

;) let's just say Lo Duca last hit the double in 2008...

[maddog42]

If Wilt played in today's NBA, he'd score like 10pts/8rebounds
Many Track coaches say Wilt was a one-man track team. Very Fast for a big man. Could hurdle and high jump. Very strong. Could even shot-put. Great Volley ball player. 8- 10 points in todays game. Nah. More like 20 to 30. Wilt actually forced them to change the size of the lane, to keep him out of it. He was so athletic, he was experimenting with taking a running start, and dunking from behind the free-throw line. A rule change also stopped this. Notoriously poor free-throw shooter. Wilt was a monster athlete and a true "freak".

[Marshall Bennett]

Is it the walking or the heat that makes them athletes?
My mother walks that far every morning in the Louisiana heat.
She is 70 yrs old.
Now; if they RAN 18 holes you'd have a good point.....
You've simply turned the whole discussion here into lunacy.

[Cardus]

Oh yeah? Try walking 18 holes in 98 degree heat and come back and tell me that. Golf is a sport last time I checked, that makes golfers athletes.

Golfers are sportsmen, but not athletes. And I say this as someone who watches golf, and can get out of bed and shoot a 115.

[cj]

Golfers are sportsmen, but not athletes. And I say this as someone who watches golf, and can get out of bed and shoot a 115.

I would say they are athletes. Anybody that thinks the guys of today can win without being athletes probably doesn't get it. 20 years ago I would have agreed with you, but Tiger changed all that.

[PhantomOnTour]

I would say they are athletes. Anybody that thinks the guys of today can win without being athletes probably doesn't get it. 20 years ago I would have agreed with you, but Tiger changed all that.
I'll concede and say they are more athletic than they were 20yrs ago, but when a guy like Cabrera can win the US Open (i think) at well over 40yrs of age it is more about finesse than athleticism.
But Tiger has changed the game (i agree)...look at Phil, he's bulked up. Many of the tounger players are strapping guys....Baddeley, Fowler, even RoryMac has some cut to him.
Skinny boys like Ty Tryon and Ch Howell III never made it...

[cj]

I'll concede and say they are more athletic than they were 20yrs ago, but when a guy like Cabrera can win the US Open (i think) at well over 40yrs of age it is more about finesse than athleticism.
But Tiger has changed the game (i agree)...look at Phil, he's bulked up. Many of the tounger players are strapping guys....Baddeley, Fowler, even RoryMac has some cut to him.
Skinny boys like Ty Tryon and Ch Howell III never made it...

The same could be said about baseball. Not being in perfect shape doesn't mean you aren't athletic. You think offensive linemen are athletes?

[cj's dad]

The same could be said about baseball. Not being in perfect shape doesn't mean you aren't athletic. You think offensive linemen are athletes?

CC Sabathia proves that every time he pitches.

[PhantomOnTour]

The same could be said about baseball. Not being in perfect shape doesn't mean you aren't athletic. You think offensive linemen are athletes?
But, in baseball, guys actually sprint and jump and slide and accelerate and have quick twitch reactions etc....no such thing in golf.
Yes, I think O-linemen are athletes. A pulling guard (like Alan Faneca) is quick on his feet and immensely powerful. He must slide step, sprint, thrust, accelerate, drive his opponent (who is resisting him) etc...all athletic moves imo.
Faneca used to dine at my restaurant in New Orleans before Katrina washed her away. He's my boy..LSU grad and was a Steeler at the time. I used to joke around with him about his meal being free if he could get past me (as i slide stepped back & forth with hands out in front like a linemen). One time he got up and took about a step and a half in my direction, as if to take me up on the challenge, and began doing the slide step left-right thing. Dude is quick.
Lemme tell ya, he's an athlete.

[thaskalos]

You think offensive linemen are athletes?
Just because you learn to play a SKILL position...that doesn't make you an athlete.

A pro football player YES...but not an "athlete".

IMO, a "true" athlete should be able to run 100 yards at close to top speed...without collapsing. :)

[cj]

But, in baseball, guys actually sprint and jump and slide and accelerate and have quick twitch reactions etc....no such thing in golf.
Yes, I think O-linemen are athletes. A pulling guard (like Alan Faneca) is quick on his feet and immensely powerful. He must slide step, sprint, thrust, accelerate, drive his opponent (who is resisting him) etc...all athletic moves imo.
Faneca used to dine at my restaurant in New Orleans before Katrina washed her away. He's my boy..LSU grad and was a Steeler at the time. I used to joke around with him about his meal being free if he could get past me (as i slide stepped back & forth with hands out in front like a linemen). One time he got up and took about a step and a half in my direction, as if to take me up on the challenge, and began doing the slide step left-right thing. Dude is quick.
Lemme tell ya, he's an athlete.

See, I agree they are athletes, I just think golfers are as well. Just because a guy is out of shape doesn't mean he isn't very athletic. A linemen only has to run a short distance, so he can get away with it. The same thing applies in baseball. Golfers don't run, but they walk five miles, and there is no way someone that isn't an athlete can hit a golf ball 330 yards, let alone keeping it fairly straight.

If anything, I would equate them to pitchers. If C.C. can be a pitcher (one of many fat pitchers), and he is an athlete, than so are golfers. You can throw in DHs as well.

[PhantomOnTour]

I see your point CJ, agree on the pitcher analogy...Sid Fernandez was the "Hefty Lefty" for a reason, but still a good pitcher.
John Kruk anyone???

[cj]

I see your point CJ, agree on the pitcher analogy...Sid Fernandez was the "Hefty Lefty" for a reason, but still a good pitcher.
John Kruk anyone???

David Ortiz...there are others.

[joeprunes]

ath·lete (thlt)
n.
A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength, agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jockeys at the top of the list,in my opinion

[Canarsie]

David Ortiz...there are others.


You had to name him after this magnificent feat. :eek:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/photo?slug=ap-201106212032739494513

I agree with you lets not forget Bartolo Colon

[PeteKoch]

As much as it hurts for me to agree Rush Limbaugh about anything, I have got go Donovan McNabb at least in pro football.

I have to agree. I think it was 2006 and I happened to be in the public library of all places (yep, it's open on Sundays) and they had the Eagles game on a TV in one of the rooms. McNabb went down with a knee and I remember thinking that the Eagles were done for the year. They were 5-6 at the time. I think Garcia filled in at QB and the Birds finished up 5-0 and even won a playoff game.

Then there's Culpepper. When he was with the Vikings, Randy Moss was the best receiver in the NFL, bar none. In fact, he was so great that people actually thought Culpepper was a very good QB. After Moss left, Culpepper was exposed for the mediocrity he was.

[Marshall Bennett]

I kinda think someone has to be considered great before than can be called overrated. I don't think McNabb and Culpepper qualify. I'm not even sure they can be considered very good.

[PhantomOnTour]

Today's Fantasy leagues skew folks view of greatness. It's all stats...hardly anyone rates a player on what they see on the field. It's the box score they're interested in.
Culpepper is a great example. He had one of (if not the) best fantasy seasons ever by a QB...and therefore became a huge name in fantasy circles, but really wasn't that good.

Roethlisberger is another example, but in the other direction. If you look at his numbers he isn't that special, but just watch him play. A guy like Phillip Rivers or Mark Bulger may put up nicer numbers, but Ben is the better QB.

[Valuist]

I kinda think someone has to be considered great before than can be called overrated. I don't think McNabb and Culpepper qualify. I'm not even sure they can be considered very good.

What did McNabb play in, FOUR NFC title games? Other than the year he had TO, that receiving corps was brutal. Reid never liked running the ball much either. He may be finished now but he had a damned good 10 year run.

[Marshall Bennett]

What did McNabb play in, FOUR NFC title games? Other than the year he had TO, that receiving corps was brutal. Reid never liked running the ball much either. He may be finished now but he had a damned good 10 year run.
Understand of course I meant "very good" as much better than simply good, not that they weren't very.....good.

[onefast99]

McNabb always gave 100% even when injured. Most qb's these days won't go near the playing field with the slightest of injuries.

[dav4463]

I heard a guy on the radio say, "Statistics are like bikinis. They show a lot, but they don't show everything!"

[skate]

most over done star Kareem Abdul, he's got records, but Wilt/Russel use to kill the poor guy.


he couldn't play with the best

[Patrick333]

McNabb was a really good QB for the Eagles. I always thought he never got the credit in Philadelphia that he deserved. Overrated, not in my book.

[canleakid]

Joe Namath short on stats, but large in stature ;)

[sonnyp]

saw an old interview with mike curtis ((the colt who destroyed the drunken fan who ran on the field and took the ball between plays).


HdP2G7UtS9I




believe it or not, he hated johnny unitas (sacrilege). he said in the interview that unitas would often argue with the coaches and if he (curtis) was the coach, he would have duck taped his (unitas) ass shut.

[cj's dad]

I was at that game as I and my sis had season tix. We sat in the upper deck 35 yard line and were facing Curtis's KO of the kid. Some info on MC; he played at Duke in an inferior conference at the time.

FWIW, he couldn't wash Johnny's jock strap. And of course JU argued with the coaches, he was so much smarter than they were.

BTW- thanks for the clip.

[delayjf]

I'm not sure it's fair to compare stats of quarterbacks 40 years ago to those today

One way they do compare is Namath's arm, when he was healthy, would be the envy of the league today. He was like a stronger armed version of Dan Marino.

[JeremyJet]

ZENYATTA

[rastajenk]

Oh-hoh-hoh-hoh (nervous chuckling)....now you've done it. :eek:

[JBmadera]

Easy, Anna Kournikova.

http://pushermagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/3.AnnaKournikova.jpg

[ElKabong]

One way they do compare is Namath's arm, when he was healthy, would be the envy of the league today. He was like a stronger armed version of Dan Marino.

This, is a fact. He may be the most gifted passer I ever saw, prior to his 2nd knee injury.

After the 1971 injury vs the Lions he was a shell of his former talent. He had no foundation whatsoever from then on. "QB's throw with their feet" as Morton and Meredith used to say in QB camps in the 1960s & they are correct.

[DigitalDownsJoe]

Cy Young, Bo Jackson, Penny Hardaway, Chad Johnson, and Daunte Culpepper(or as i like to call him, fumblenuts)

[cj's dad]

Cy Young, Bo Jackson, Penny Hardaway, Chad Johnson, and Daunte Culpepper(or as i like to call him, fumblenuts)

Bo Jackson

This is a joke, right !?

[DigitalDownsJoe]

Well he only played 4 seasons in the nfl and he did pretty good, but look at his baseball stats where he played 9 seasons. 250 batting average..0-13 in the playoffs..He was marketed like the best thing since white bread, but I thought of him as a great athlete but over hyped. I know the injury, but still..Isnt longevity also considered in how great a player should be remembered? Im just saying was he worth commercials and video games?

[cj's dad]

IMO he was a great athlete- hit the ball a mile- ran like a freight train- and played 2 major sports at a high level.

You think he's overrated ? fair nuff - I loved watching the guy. I can't say that about some of the great ones.

[DigitalDownsJoe]

Yea shame on me for dissin the guy..And you gotta love the commercials. Bo dont know diddly! LMAO :D I wonder what he would have done if he didnt get hurt??He was averaging 5.4 yard a carry on an average team...I never thought much of him as a baseball player though..He did have one year where he hit like 30 hr and had 100 rbi's..I just have more respect for guys who hit over 300

[eastie]

ZENYATTA



the band YES....worst concert evah......................except for blues traveler

[Stillriledup]

My list:

Baseball: Nolan Ryan
Football: Brett Favre
Hockey: Jaromir Jagr
Basketball: Lebron James

How is a guy who's the best who ever played overrated if half the fans of that sport don't have him in the top 3?

[cj's dad]

Ali - the most overrated boxer EVER !!!

[thaskalos]

The Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback...I forgot how to spell his name, and he is too overrated for me to bother looking his name up.

[cj]

The Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback...I forgot how to spell his name, and he is too overrated for me to bother looking his name up.

B-R-A-D-S-H-A-W.

[BlueChip@DRF]

Ocho Stinko

[delayjf]

Given the contract he just signed I would nominate Cam Newton as the most overrated and over paid. I feel the same way about Kaepernick and Wilson. IMO, neither one could carry a team like Brady or Manning.

[Marshall Bennett]

B-R-A-D-S-H-A-W.
He called his own game, like many of that era, and walked away with 4 super bowl rings. His stats, like with many of his era, are not a true sample of his contribution towards winning games. Winning is a huge part of greatness.
I've never considered Bradshaw as great, but his achievements are far from overrated.

[thaskalos]

B-R-A-D-S-H-A-W.
No...the current one.

[PhantomOnTour]

No...the current one.
Now you listen here Thask!
Big Ben is underrated if anything...but im sure Rise Over Run will be here to support your claim :lol:

[Elliott Sidewater]

Brian Bozworth, Jerry Bailey

[Marshall Bennett]

Add Jeff George to the mix. :)

[johnhannibalsmith]

Putin

[cj]

Secretariat.

[ReplayRandall]

Secretariat?? Different category-Overrated figures--->TimeformUSfigs... :cool:

[thaskalos]

Secretariat.
Rachel Alexandra?

[Marshall Bennett]

Ralph Sampson.

[PaceAdvantage]

Rachel Alexandra?Zenyatta? ;)

[proximity]

I was gonna say jonathan ogden since freeney beat him with that spin move so many times..... but I don't want to get cotb all fired up. :)

[cj's dad]

I was gonna say jonathan ogden since freeney beat him with that spin move so many times..... but I don't want to get cotb all fired up. :)

Too mellow to get fired up; remember, I am retired.

[reckless]

Secretariat.

CJ... how is that you think Secretariat was overrated? Or are you joking sans the smiley face?

[classhandicapper]

Carmelo Anthony

[lamboguy]

Andre the Giant

he went undefeated but he just intimidated his challengers with his size

[Secondbest]

Billy Beane

[Secondbest]

Billy Beane
Not as a player as a GM

[Marshall Bennett]

Bobby Riggs.

[cj]

CJ... how is that you think Secretariat was overrated? Or are you joking sans the smiley face?

It was just a joke.

[Robert Fischer]

"Swaggy P"

i feel disgusted just typing that

[RaceBookJoe]

Andre the Giant

he went undefeated but he just intimidated his challengers with his size

except he wasn't undefeated. Stood next to him once, holy crap was he gigantic. I even remember back in the early/mid 70's the Redskins attempted to sign him to block FG's and Extra points.

[Marshall Bennett]

Hulk Hogan actually body slammed him. :cool:

[TJDave]

Bobby Riggs.

At what?

It's my understanding he was a world class gambler. ;)

[reckless]

It was just a joke.

I thought so; just weren't sure since it now seems we live and die online thru emoticons (sp.?). :)

[reckless]

Carmelo Anthony

Good example -- and Melo is quite deserving, classhandicapper.

[reckless]

Ali - the most overrated boxer EVER !!!

I always thought Cassius Clay was a much better fighter than Muhammad Ali, myself.

[ronsmac]

I always thought Cassius Clay was a much better fighter than Muhammad Ali, myself.I recently watched Ali's fights from 1966 and1967, for those 2 years I'd say no heavyweight under 230lbs would have stood a chance against him, and maybe no heavyweight ever.

[dav4463]

Joe Namath is an ICON. My dad's favorite player. A leader. A game-changer and he guest starred on the Brady Bunch! :ThmbUp:

[pandy]

Joe Namath is an ICON. My dad's favorite player. A leader. A game-changer and he guest starred on the Brady Bunch! :ThmbUp:

The thing about Namath, too, he didn't need good pass protection. When the Jets beat the Raiders to get into the Super Bowl, the Raiders were pounding him to the ground all day, but mostly just after he released the ball. He had that deep drop and quick release and regardless of how fierce the pass rush, he knew he was going to get hit, he still waited until the last second, fired his pass, then got bashed into the ground. Very tough guy, a real leader. That stuff doesn't show up in the stats. Neither does the fact that he could complete passes into tight zone coverage that only the elite passers can.

[Stillriledup]

Carmelo Anthony

For every person who worships the ground melo walks on, 9 others think he's a soft me first stats guy who won't put his face in front of a '100 mph slapshot' to win a game. So, he's probably rated properly.

[Stillriledup]

CJ... how is that you think Secretariat was overrated? Or are you joking sans the smiley face?

Sec is rated so highly by everyone that its almost impossible that he's as good as people think. So, he's either properly rated or overrated. Now, you can still be overrated and great, overrated doesn't mean people think you were 'no good'.

[Tor Ekman]

Overrated: Every player in today's NBA except Duncan and LeBron

Underrated: Every player in today's NHL without exception

[Marshall Bennett]

The thing about Namath, too, he didn't need good pass protection. When the Jets beat the Raiders to get into the Super Bowl, the Raiders were pounding him to the ground all day, but mostly just after he released the ball. He had that deep drop and quick release and regardless of how fierce the pass rush, he knew he was going to get hit, he still waited until the last second, fired his pass, then got bashed into the ground. Very tough guy, a real leader. That stuff doesn't show up in the stats. Neither does the fact that he could complete passes into tight zone coverage that only the elite passers can.
Namath paid dearly for all that pounding. His legs turned to mush and his greatness was short lived.
The fact that he beat the Colts as he predicted though is enough in my book to keep him from ever being overrated. :)

[pandy]

And the Jets were 18 point underdogs!

[Tor Ekman]

Watch the HBO special on Namath and check out the footage of him at Alabama with 2 healthy knees, guy could run like a deer. Despite what was lost to injury, he was still great and tough as nails

[pandy]

Watch the HBO special on Namath and check out the footage of him at Alabama with 2 healthy knees, guy could run like a deer. Despite what was lost to injury, he was still great and tough as nails


Even with two bad knees, Namath actually missed very few games in his career. That big defensive end on Oakland broke Namath's jaw, but I can't remember how many games he missed. But the last couple of years of his career, he had no arm strength and he blamed it on his knees.

[Tor Ekman]

At the end he was a shell of even his knee damaged self, playing on dreadful Jets teams. He should have retired earlier and never should have tried that stint with the Rams, just like Johnny U with the Chargers, it was just wrong to see him in another team's jersey

[Marshall Bennett]

Felt the same way when Earl Campbell went to New Orleans. Better to quit than end it playing for a shit-team and risk injury.

[Valuist]

Given the contract he just signed I would nominate Cam Newton as the most overrated and over paid. I feel the same way about Kaepernick and Wilson. IMO, neither one could carry a team like Brady or Manning.

Considering all the hype Kaepernick got when he bumped Alex Smith out of the starter role, I'd have to agree. He's absolutely brutal. One of the worst QBs in the NFL and right now, Blaine Gabbert would be an improvement.

That Alex Smith trade doesn't look to good right now for the Niners.

[Robert Fischer]

Considering all the hype Kaepernick got when he bumped Alex Smith out of the starter role, I'd have to agree. He's absolutely brutal. One of the worst QBs in the NFL and right now, Blaine Gabbert would be an improvement.

That Alex Smith trade doesn't look to good right now for the Niners.

Good Call.

A guy like Kaep is great when he's got the salary of a Free-Agent backup, and the security of a backup in a journeyman like Smith. He's like a Mike Vick that will listen to the coaches. Opens passing lanes for his sub-par accuracy and passing skills by being a dynamic threat to run. Best to have 2 of these guys.

Once you give the guy all the credit and give him the salary of a good starting QB, you've just eliminated all your competitive advantages. -He now is no longer cheap, and you are scared to let him get hurt while he should be out there establishing the run with his legs.
Add to that the rapid decline of the franchise, with the Coach Harbaugh leaving and the Offensive Coordinator Roman(happens to have built a Kaepernick 'clone' over in Buffalo in Tyrod Taylor...), and Kaepernick is completely worthless.

a worthless player who has a 6 year 114,000,000 deal w/ 61,000,000 guaranteed (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/colin-kaepernick/). :cool:

[NorCalGreg]

Most overrated boxer...anyone that knows boxing will back me up in a heartbeat-- Prince Naseem Hamed. This "champion" clown humiliated lesser fighters with his histrionics and showboating in the ring, until he met a true world class fighter, Mexico's Marco Antonio Barrera.
It was like accidentally dropping a kitten into a lion's cage, but was even funnier since the kitten felt it necessary to have a bold ISLAM on the back of his trunks, for some damn reason.
To insure he was never exposed like this again, the fake "prince" quickly retired from boxing.

[Tor Ekman]

NCG - I greatly enjoyed that fight. The clown prince got schooled by the "Baby Faced Assassin" that night. IIRC, pre-fight Barrerra had a great line that Nasseem can talk about Allah all he wants, but Allah isn't going to help him when we get in the ring.

[cj's dad]

Andre the Giant

he went undefeated but he just intimidated his challengers with his size

Funny story-as told to me by my friend who worked security at the hotel- about Andre. He was wrestling in Baltimore and due to go to Philly the next day. He spent the night at the Holiday Inn right by the Baltimore Civic Center. He sat at the bar and drank 30 + beers right up to closing time. He then bought a case to take to his room where he drank even more. He passed out and hit the floor so hard that he knocked out part of the plaster ceiling in the room below. 6 people were unable to get him on his feet.. My friend swears that they borrowed a hydraulic lift from the fire station across the street from the hotel to pick him up and get him back in bed.

The next morning when the room was cleaned, it was found that he had consumed another 14 beers.

[Robert Fischer]

^ greatest drinker of all time



Chip Kelly is not an athlete, but he's certainly well on his way to proving to have been extremely overrated.

[Stillriledup]

Considering all the hype Kaepernick got when he bumped Alex Smith out of the starter role, I'd have to agree. He's absolutely brutal. One of the worst QBs in the NFL and right now, Blaine Gabbert would be an improvement.

That Alex Smith trade doesn't look to good right now for the Niners.

The 9ers were a really good team during the kae run. Now they stink, he's exposed.

[Marshall Bennett]

Considering all the hype Kaepernick got when he bumped Alex Smith out of the starter role, I'd have to agree. He's absolutely brutal. One of the worst QBs in the NFL and right now, Blaine Gabbert would be an improvement.

That Alex Smith trade doesn't look to good right now for the Niners.
Texans would take any of the above mentioned over what they have now. Strange that it's the NFL, nothing to do with injury or such, and a team begins the season without a quarterback. I don't consider the two they're using now as quality subjects in this league either. Utterly disgraceful. :ThmbDown:

[horses4courses]

I think that, collectively, NFL quarterbacks are the most overpaid, over hyped,
athletes in the modern era. There are exceptions, but some couldn't break
15 seconds for a hundred yard dash.
Others, I'm thinking, would be hard pressed to run as far as a mile, and manage to finish in under 6 minutes.

There are those that have plenty of fitness and speed.
Some earn millions per year while playing at less than full fitness.
True, injuries can take their toll. They get hit hard week after week.

QBs thread the needle tossing a ball at speed. That is an art form, in itself.
Making these athletes out to be Adonis-like heroes, though, is a fallacy.
For pure physical fitness, many other sports demand much more from their participants. They not all professionals, either.

[cj's dad]

Both football and basketball are the easiest of the 3 major sports to play IMO. They rely on size at almost every position. Baseball relies on skill that one has to have in the manner of speed, fielding ability, arm strength, and the ability to hit pitches coming at you at 90+ mph at different angles from both left and right handed pitchers. Football has IMO become a 'thug sport" and for me has become increasingly difficult to watch. Basketball is so repetitious as to be boring. Absolutely no creativity, Ho Hum action.

But, then again this is just my opinion !

[ebcorde]

but if you start a Coach segment. Put me in for Chip Kelly :faint:

[Robert Fischer]

Both football and basketball are the easiest of the 3 major sports to play IMO. They rely on size at almost every position. Baseball relies on skill that one has to have in the manner of speed, fielding ability, arm strength, and the ability to hit pitches coming at you at 90+ mph at different angles from both left and right handed pitchers. Football has IMO become a 'thug sport" and for me has become increasingly difficult to watch. Basketball is so repetitious as to be boring. Absolutely no creativity, Ho Hum action.

But, then again this is just my opinion !

Greg Hardy comes back this week.
Similar to Ray Rice, he got in trouble for domestic violence. Hardy apparently threw a woman onto a futon full of assault rifles, threatened to kill her, dragged her around by the hair, choked her out, and slammed her into the walls.
Wasn't caught on tape like Rice, and unlike Rice, Hardy is a more valuable player, so the Cowboys quickly signed him to a 1yr/11M contract.

also unlike Rice he hasn't pretended to be sorry:


Greg Hardy on if he is reflective of his last two years: “What’s that? I’m not reflecting on sacks, man. I haven’t had one in two years.”

Greg Hardy on playing the Patriots 1st game off suspension: "I love seeing Tom Brady. You seen his wife? I hope she comes to the game. I hope her sister comes to the game..."

Greg Hardy on the excitement of returning to the NFL: "I hope I come out guns blazing. I'm full of excitement and full of juice. I'm ready to go."

[ronsmac]

Both football and basketball are the easiest of the 3 major sports to play IMO. They rely on size at almost every position. Baseball relies on skill that one has to have in the manner of speed, fielding ability, arm strength, and the ability to hit pitches coming at you at 90+ mph at different angles from both left and right handed pitchers. Football has IMO become a 'thug sport" and for me has become increasingly difficult to watch. Basketball is so repetitious as to be boring. Absolutely no creativity, Ho Hum action.

But, then again this is just my opinion !Football was really a thug sport when I was a kid, that's what me and my friends loved about it. Today the athletes are so big, so strong and so fast that someone would probably die if they played like cliff harris, jack lambert or conrad dobler. Those guys may have been thugs but they sure made the game fun to watch.

[NorCalGreg]

Football was really a thug sport when I was a kid, that's what me and my friends loved about it. Today the athletes are so big, so strong and so fast that someone would probably die if they played like cliff harris, jack lambert or conrad dobler. Those guys may have been thugs but they sure made the game fun to watch.

WHaaaaaaa? ronsmac....you're the board boxing authority, no comment on the "fake prince" of Islam being revealed to be a completely overrated clown, essentially bitch-slapped into oblivion on world-wide television? Speaking for myself, Tor ,Marco Barrera, most of the citizens of the great nation of Mexico, (and probably some STILL humiliated and embarrassed followers of Islam).....we are disappointed.

[ronsmac]

WHaaaaaaa? ronsmac....you're the board boxing authority, no comment on the "fake prince" of Islam being revealed to be a completely overrated clown, essentially bitch-slapped into oblivion on world-wide television? Speaking for myself, Tor ,Marco Barrera, most of the citizens of the great nation of Mexico, (and probably some STILL humiliated and embarrassed followers of Islam).....we are disappointed.Good call, Barrera definitely beat that ass. I liked Naseem, he was definitely more hype than substance but very entertaining. I didn't like his allah comments after every fight though, the same way I didn't like holyfield always talking about Jesus

[ronsmac]

WHaaaaaaa? ronsmac....you're the board boxing authority, no comment on the "fake prince" of Islam being revealed to be a completely overrated clown, essentially bitch-slapped into oblivion on world-wide television? Speaking for myself, Tor ,Marco Barrera, most of the citizens of the great nation of Mexico, (and probably some STILL humiliated and embarrassed followers of Islam).....we are disappointed.Authority may be a stretch, I was just too much of a sports junkie in my youth, that and cartoons. I should've paid more attention in school instead.

[Marshall Bennett]

Football was really a thug sport when I was a kid, that's what me and my friends loved about it. Today the athletes are so big, so strong and so fast that someone would probably die if they played like cliff harris, jack lambert or conrad dobler. Those guys may have been thugs but they sure made the game fun to watch.
Jack Lambert was one meaaaan summa-bish. :D

[Robert Fischer]

Ryan Tannehill , Dolphins QB was recently outed about whining and yelling at practice squad players for breaking up and intercepting his passes. Recently-fired-head-coach Philbin would have to tell them to stop anticipating his throws.

Tannehill has a $77M contract with $45M guaranteed.

So far he's nothing but a sparring partner for the Patriots, in spite of constantly being marketed as some sort of star on the rise.

[Stillriledup]

Ryan Tannehill , Dolphins QB was recently outed about whining and yelling at practice squad players for breaking up and intercepting his passes. Recently-fired-head-coach Philbin would have to tell them to stop anticipating his throws.

Tannehill has a $77M contract with $45M guaranteed.

So far he's nothing but a sparring partner for the Patriots, in spite of constantly being marketed as some sort of star on the rise.

He's a star because of his wife, not his football talent. ;)

[Stillriledup]

i am going to go with FRED LYNN in baseball

TONY EASON football

PHIL ESPOSITO hockey

EARL THE PEARL MONROE basketball

MIKE TYSON boxing

GREG NORMAN golf

TODD PLETCHER horseracing

How does Greg Norman own a house worth 55 million?

[pandy]

How does Greg Norman own a house worth 55 million?


I know he has a clothes line. I think I had a pair of his shorts.

That doesn't sound right. :)

[slimbo]

im gonna throw puig on this list

the guy is so dam lazy

[PhantomOnTour]

i'll catch some grief for this, but i think Chris Paul is overrated.

yeah yeah...stats stats stats...but the dude NEVER looks happy on the court, is a prima donna in my opinion, and a coach killer.
Won't win a title.

[azeri98]

Football- Terry Bradshaw
Baseball- Nolan Ryan
Basketball- Kevin McHale
Hockey- Jari Kurri
Boxing- Mike Tyson

[Stillriledup]

Football- Terry Bradshaw
Baseball- Nolan Ryan
Basketball- Kevin McHale
Hockey- Jari Kurri
Boxing- Mike Tyson

Why do you think Nolan Ryan is overrated?

[pandy]

Why do you think Nolan Ryan is overrated?


He's probably going to say his won/lost record, which was not great for someone with his talent, but you could blame that on the crappy teams he played for. One thing about Nolan Ryan, when he had his control, he was probably as tough to hit as any pitcher who ever played. Only five pitchers in the history of baseball threw more than 1 no hitter, and Ryan threw an astounding 7, which seems impossible.

List of pitchers who threw more than 1 no hitter.

Nolan Ryan (7)
Sandy Koufax (4)
Bob Feller (3)
Larry Corcoran (3)
Cy Young (3)

[azeri98]

Why do you think Nolan Ryan is overrated?
He is a 500 pitcher, walked a lot of batters, more than he should have. Never won a Cy Young award as the best pitcher in his league.

[Stillriledup]

He is a 500 pitcher, walked a lot of batters, more than he should have. Never won a Cy Young award as the best pitcher in his league.

So you're holding it against him that he played on bad teams?

[azeri98]

So you're holding it against him that he played on bad teams?
No I'm not but if he was that good he would have won more games, what does a bad team have to do with walks and Cy Young awards? Roger Clemens won 2 Cy Youngs with lousy Blue Jays teams, Randy Johnson won 5 in the steroid era who was the "2nd best" strikeout pitcher of all time, Clemens and Johnson made their teams better, Ryan didn't. Ryan is glorified because of the strikeouts and no-hitters, he had a great arm but I think he was overrated as a pitcher. Look at some of the guys who won Cy Young's during his era, some of them were not great pitchers.

[PhantomOnTour]

He's probably going to say his won/lost record, which was not great for someone with his talent, but you could blame that on the crappy teams he played for. One thing about Nolan Ryan, when he had his control, he was probably as tough to hit as any pitcher who ever played. Only five pitchers in the history of baseball threw more than 1 no hitter, and Ryan threw an astounding 7, which seems impossible.

List of pitchers who threw more than 1 no hitter.

Nolan Ryan (7)
Sandy Koufax (4)
Bob Feller (3)
Larry Corcoran (3)
Cy Young (3)
That list cannot be right...Johnny van der Meer threw two in a row

[pandy]

He is a 500 pitcher, walked a lot of batters, more than he should have. Never won a Cy Young award as the best pitcher in his league.


Ryan wasn't quite a :500 pitcher, 526, and if you remove his first few years and his last two (he should have retired two years earlier), his win percentage goes over 540. But, he did struggle with his control at times, otherwise he would have been a right handed Koufax. On his best days, he was as good as any pitcher could possibly be, unhittable.

Koufax struggled his first four years, same as Nolan Ryan, and also due to control problems. But his catcher, Johnny Roseboro, came to the mound one day after Koufax had walked the bases loaded and told him, "They are getting ready to cut you. You need to start throwing strikes. Take something off it if you have to but get the ball over."

Well, right then and there Koufax decided not to try to throw as hard as he could. He got out of the inning without allowing a run and from then on he was the greatest lefty of all time.

[Stillriledup]

No I'm not but if he was that good he would have won more games, what does a bad team have to do with walks and Cy Young awards? Roger Clemens won 2 Cy Youngs with lousy Blue Jays teams, Randy Johnson won 5 in the steroid era who was the "2nd best" strikeout pitcher of all time, Clemens and Johnson made their teams better, Ryan didn't. Ryan is glorified because of the strikeouts and no-hitters, he had a great arm but I think he was overrated as a pitcher. Look at some of the guys who won Cy Young's during his era, some of them were not great pitchers.

Wins have everything to do with how feeble minded voters think. Dan Marino is infinitely more talented than Tom Brady but Brady's wins get in the way for people who aren't able to see past the 'final result'

I've never felt Ryan was overrated, he's properly rated or underrated, why he doesn't have a bunch of cy youngs is a mystery but those are voters opinions and really has nothing to do with on field performance.

Ask any major leaguer who played during Ryan's heyday who is the first pitcher they would love to face with the game on the line in the 9th, I can't imagine too many guys would have Nolan anywhere near the top of the list.

[Racetrack Playa]

He pitched in a different era, The Closer role wasn't fully utilized until the 80's, Nolan went Deep. Don't Underrate Him, one of the greats

for example

Check out his complete game stats , man was a beast,
1974 angels. saves leader - Orlando Pena_3 saves 4 games 8 innings
N. Ryan
22 wins 26 CGs
222 career CGs

2001 D backs saves leader BHKim 20 saves 78 games 98 innings
R. Johnson
21 wins 3 CGs
100 career CGs

"(Nolan) Ryan's the only guy who puts fear in me. Not because he could get me out, but because he could kill me. You just hoped to mix in a walk so you could have a good night and go 0-for-3." - Reggie Jackson

[cribking]

Pretty good fighter also,remember when he beat the hell of Robin Ventura

[azeri98]

Wins have everything to do with how feeble minded voters think. Dan Marino is infinitely more talented than Tom Brady but Brady's wins get in the way for people who aren't able to see past the 'final result'

I've never felt Ryan was overrated, he's properly rated or underrated, why he doesn't have a bunch of cy youngs is a mystery but those are voters opinions and really has nothing to do with on field performance.

Ask any major leaguer who played during Ryan's heyday who is the first pitcher they would love to face with the game on the line in the 9th, I can't imagine too many guys would have Nolan anywhere near the top of the list.
His best year record wise was 22-16, He strike out to walk ratio is barely 2 to 1 whereas Clemens and Johnson were close to 4 to 1 who both had more than one season of 20 wins and single digit loses. As far as Marino and Brady go I agree with you Marino had more talent than Brady, but Brady is the better qb. Marino had better receivers than Brady did throughout his career, and his coach was Shula who is one of the best coaches of all time. The two best qb's ever Montana and Brady had less talent than quite a few of the other great qb's like Elway and Marino. Talent isn't everything, example Ryan Leaf and Jeff George. I think there are at least 20 starting pitchers I would rate higher than Ryan.

[Mandrake]

Joe Namath
Dwight Howard
Eric Lindros
Ozzie Smith

[pandy]

Wins have everything to do with how feeble minded voters think. Dan Marino is infinitely more talented than Tom Brady but Brady's wins get in the way for people who aren't able to see past the 'final result'

I've never felt Ryan was overrated, he's properly rated or underrated, why he doesn't have a bunch of cy youngs is a mystery but those are voters opinions and really has nothing to do with on field performance.

Ask any major leaguer who played during Ryan's heyday who is the first pitcher they would love to face with the game on the line in the 9th, I can't imagine too many guys would have Nolan anywhere near the top of the list.

Just a note, Marino's win percentage during the time he played was the best in the NFL and one of the best ever. He is 5th all time in wins. Peyton Manning is 1st. Marino's only failure was that he did not win the one Super Bowl he got in. In playoff games he was 8-10. The real failure of the Shula/Marino teams was their defense. All of the money went to the offense and there just wasn't enough left to put together a good enough defense to win a championship when they had those good receivers. But, Miami was a very successful franchise right up until the day that Marino retired, and since then they have struggled mightily. Sure, he was more talented than most quarterbacks, but football is a team sport and without a top defense, it is really tough to win a Super Bowl.

[thaskalos]

Scotty Pippen
Mike Singletary
David Beckham
Steven Gerrard
Derek Jeter
Trevor Hoffman
Mike Piazza

[Stillriledup]

Scotty Pippen
Mike Singletary
David Beckham
Steven Gerrard
Derek Jeter
Trevor Hoffman
Mike Piazza

Steven Gerard? Can't be too overrated if I've never heard of him :lol:

[thaskalos]

Steven Gerard? Can't be too overrated if I've never heard of him :lol:

You've got to be KIDDING me. There is a sports fan alive who never heard of Steven Gerrard? :eek:

[Stillriledup]

You've got to be KIDDING me. There is a sports fan alive who never heard of Steven Gerrard? :eek:

I would bet there are plenty.

[thaskalos]

I would bet there are plenty.
They call it the "beautiful game" for a reason, SRU. Try it out.

[TJDave]

Joe Namath

No way. He was the Mickey Mantle of football. May not have lived up to his potential but not overrated. More talent than any of his generation or since.

[tucker6]

Joe Namath
Dwight Howard
Eric Lindros
Ozzie Smith
How can someone be overrated if everyone believes he's overrated? Namath is one such person. He predicted one victory, and his TEAM won it for him. Otherwise, he was a completely forgettable athlete.

[tucker6]

No way. He was the Mickey Mantle of football. May not have lived up to his potential but not overrated. More talent than any of his generation or since.
don't post after intoxication

[tucker6]

They call it the "beautiful game" for a reason, SRU. Try it out.
soccer is not a legitimate American sport, and therefore disqualified from this discussion. Curling though ... :D

[slimbo]

i agree soccer is garbage

for some reason at the real sports bar yesterday in toronto you could not get a seat....all the euro trash were watching a soccer game

garbage sport

[thaskalos]

i agree soccer is garbage

for some reason at the real sports bar yesterday in toronto you could not get a seat....all the euro trash were watching a soccer game

garbage sport

If the Canadians say so...then it must be true. :ThmbUp:

[Jess Hawsen Arown]

For me its Nolan Ryan. One of the greatest pitchers ever -- when he was on his game. Unfortunately, that was only about 50% of the time.

[pandy]

That list cannot be right...Johnny van der Meer threw two in a row


Yeah, I forgot about that, Van De Meer's two in a row, amazing.

[Stillriledup]

For me its Nolan Ryan. One of the greatest pitchers ever -- when he was on his game. Unfortunately, that was only about 50% of the time.

That's funny, I don't remember thinking 'another bad effort by Nolan'

But maybe I wasnt paying attention? :eek:

[cj]

Chris Paul.

[PhantomOnTour]

i'll catch some grief for this, but i think Chris Paul is overrated.

yeah yeah...stats stats stats...but the dude NEVER looks happy on the court, is a prima donna in my opinion, and a coach killer.
Won't win a title.
;)

[kingfin66]

don't post after intoxication

There are some players where I ask myself, "self, why is he in the HOF?"Joe Willie Namath is one of those players.