Betting Exchanges and Hype

[rwwupl]

This is the Offshore Gaming Association View (OSGA)

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http://www.osga.com/artman/publish/article_9212.shtml

Excerpt:

Betting Exchanges Haven’t Lived Up to the Early Hype
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By Hartley Henderson - Exclusive to OSGA
Jun 17, 2011, 11:13



In 2000 Betfair started operations and the concept was expected to revolutionalize the way bettors wagered online. Unlike traditional bookmakers who would offer lines, Betfair allowed bettors to set lines and wager against each other. Bettors could either take the line offered to them by other bettors or they could offer odds themselves which other bettors could take. Moreover betting was allowed while events were occurring which was unique since bookmakers always close bets at the start of the event. Since bettors are wagering against each other, theoretically there is no vig incorporated into the bets and thus the odds to both sides of the bet are better than they can get with a traditional bookie. According to Betfair, odds are generally 20% higher than traditional bookmaker lines. The exchanges take a commission on winning bets and thus assume no risk themselves.

While Betfair is the largest betting exchange it wasn’t the first to offer a product where bettors could back or lay odds. World Sports Exchange (WSEX) put up markets where teams/contestants would have a buy and ask associated with them. Each bet was for $100 so if a team was listed at say 20-25 bettors could buy the team for $25 and if it won they would collect $100, so essentially they were getting 3/1 odds. Alternatively bettors could take the other side and risk $100 to win $20 so essentially bettors laying 1/4 odds. Most sporting events where the markets were offered were adjusted throughout the game/contest so bettors always had a chance to hedge. Naturally the difference in the bid and ask is WSEX’s commission. The concept came to the company’s founders while working on the Pacific Stock Exchange. The product was very successful and still is somewhat although WSEX has been affected greatly by the UIGEA. Volume for most markets has definitely decreased and WSEX will be the first to admit that fixed odds betting was still more popular than the markets on the site at any point.

More at website...

[lamboguy]

i agree with these guys writing the story. betfair is a bunch of malarchy. it will ruin whatever horseracing we have here. there is no such thing as one us players ever getting the best out of it in betfair. the guys on the otherside of the computer punching away are as pro as pro can be. they are making no mistakes.

i know this because when they first started i had a friend that lived in england bet first time starters that i gave him that i knew were good. when he first started betting he gpt a very big market for his money, he got down for 7 or 8 hundred pounds. 3 weeks later they wouldn't match 10 pounds for him. not only that the money seemed to find its way back to the track. i know that because i had him bet 10 pounds on a horse i knew was no good and the horse went off less than half of what it should have.

they should tell betfair to take a hiike and go scam the rest of the world.

[exiles]

they should tell betfair to take a hiike and go scam the rest of the world.






AMEN.

[classhandicapper]

there is no such thing as one us players ever getting the best out of it in betfair. the guys on the otherside of the computer punching away are as pro as pro can be. they are making no mistakes.

i know this because when they first started i had a friend that lived in england bet first time starters that i gave him that i knew were good. when he first started betting he gpt a very big market for his money, he got down for 7 or 8 hundred pounds. 3 weeks later they wouldn't match 10 pounds for him. not only that the money seemed to find its way back to the track. i know that because i had him bet 10 pounds on a horse i knew was no good and the horse went off less than half of what it should have.

they should tell betfair to take a hiike and go scam the rest of the world.

I can't agree with any of this.

If I place a bet at the exchange it's always because I am getting a better price than I could get at the track (sometimes much better). If even one of those horses wins (and many do), I made extra money.

If my money sometimes makes it back to the track and lowers the odds on the horse (which in big markets won't happen often), I am in an even better position than if I bet it straight into that pool to begin with because I am already locked in at the higher price.

If the other players are sharp and there's no extra value to be had on a lot of races, so be it. Then bet straight into the pools. But when extra value is available, it's a great thing and can make the difference between winning or losing or winning a little and winning a lot.

What you have to be careful about is booking bets. Some sharp players with inside information may put up large sums at odds slightly below track odds hoping to tempt players into booking large sums of bets. They could then get down a large bet on the horse at odds that are HIGHER than if they had bet straight into the pool.

[toussaud]

this is the connect that needs to be made


betting exchange is not bad at all. in fact it's great

what's bad is the track isn't getting any money

why can't the track itself offer some form of this. everyone wins.

[lamboguy]

if i want to bet my horse running in the 5th race at belmont today i walk up to the window and plunk down my $1000 and walk away with a ticket and then i am at the mercy of the parimutual system. if i go to betfair and try to bet $100 i might not get faded for my bet. some guy on the otherside of the computer might think i have the right horse and he is not interested in booking my action at the price he put up. he might take $5 of my bet or even less.

this is not anything new to the world of horseracing. if you are an idiot and lose all the time you can bet as much as you want until you run out of money. in the old days of non-parimutual racing in nevada the same thing happened all the time. you walk up to the window and you can bet on any horse in the race except the one you want.

how many people remember the days that the bookmakers in vegas put up out prices on championship fights. meaning you can bet against marvin hagler on fulgenito obelmejes and get 3-1 odds for your money, but you cannot bet on marvelous marvin hagler because he is going to knock the other guy out. but there is no problem if you want to bet the loser in this case, they will take all you want and rob you. its the very same thing with bet fair. the horseracing game don't need betfair for nothing.

[Dave Schwartz]

IMHO, the Betfair approach will fail in the U.S. because there is no effective way to bet exotics.

[gm10]

IMHO, the Betfair approach will fail in the U.S. because there is no effective way to bet exotics.

It greatly compliments exotic betting.

I don't understand this anti-Betfair attitude. I've never met anybody who's ever used it that dislikes it. It's just way better than the tote or the bookmakers.

[thorobasePA]

A poorly research article in my opinion.

Often someone will put in an offer of say 100/1 on a 2/1 favorite not understanding fully how the exchange works and when it’s matched they are on the hook for a massive liability.

Firstly, in a liquid market, the offer (lay) will hit the highest bids (back) until the lay is fully exercised, if possible. It would be truly illiquid market that the 100/1 lay would be match at that price. Also, your account would have to contain funds greater than the liability been entered into (100 times the staked amount). Secondly, there are plenty of options in the interface that show what liability you are entering in to before the bet is placed. Thirdly, by the default the web interface to Betfair asks you to confirm before you place the bet. Lastly, arguing there is a weakness in the product when the user doesn't understand what they are doing is a bizarre argument.

Consequently if they bet at 10/1 and it goes off at 3/1 they still get the 10/1 odds honored. There is no way Betfair, eHorse or any exchange can offer

While Betfair doesn't have a best odds guarantee, you can choose to accept the Betfair calculated starting price (SP), so if the market moves in your favor you will receive the larger price. It's certainly not the flexibility that a best odds guarantee provides, but those bookmaker prices are almost always shorter than the Betfair SP and certainly on longshots.

Betfair's premium commission rate is certainly a hindrance to the large players, but the liquidity and flexibility the platform offers is of course a major attraction to many.

As to the performance of the stock, gambling is still a heavily-regulated market with a distinct lack of governmental and indeed popular support. With the recent online poker crackdown, the future still doesn't look too rosy for online betting services. Betfair still has significant fixed costs keeping the platform running.

This last point is the main reason I think an industry-led (and built) exchange is not possible. While the technology to get a basic exchange up and running would cost a few million, acquiring, keeping and rewarding the technical talent with the knowledge to scale the platform to the level required for a US-wide betting exchange to be completely stable is something I don't believe the industry has a stomach for. As shown through takeout increases, with so many competing interests scrambling for whatever part of the pie they can get, I can't see the exchange getting the funds required to operate with the low commission rates being touted.

[exiles]

if i want to bet my horse running in the 5th race at belmont today i walk up to the window and plunk down my $1000 and walk away with a ticket and then i am at the mercy of the parimutual system. if i go to betfair and try to bet $100 i might not get faded for my bet. some guy on the otherside of the computer might think i have the right horse and he is not interested in booking my action at the price he put up. he might take $5 of my bet or even less.

this is not anything new to the world of horseracing. if you are an idiot and lose all the time you can bet as much as you want until you run out of money. in the old days of non-parimutual racing in nevada the same thing happened all the time. you walk up to the window and you can bet on any horse in the race except the one you want.

how many people remember the days that the bookmakers in vegas put up out prices on championship fights. meaning you can bet against marvin hagler on fulgenito obelmejes and get 3-1 odds for your money, but you cannot bet on marvelous marvin hagler because he is going to knock the other guy out. but there is no problem if you want to bet the loser in this case, they will take all you want and rob you. its the very same thing with bet fair. the horseracing game don't need betfair for nothing.


RIGHT ON!! LAMBO

[Scottishracefan]

I primarily bet during the winter on steeplechasing in the UK,i use Betfair and find it brilliant,you put up the odds u want and hopefully get matched!!!!
There are alot of sharks out there...and they do use Betfair,but as a working model i cant see it working in the USA:8:

[thaskalos]

The article states that the Betfair concept never took off in the United States...eventhough several companies have presented this product to U.S. residents in the past.

Who were those companies...and why didn't they do a better job advertising this product?

If a horse racing degenerate like me never heard of these companies...how could the NORMAL people be expected to know of their existence?

[Some_One]

IMHO, the Betfair approach will fail in the U.S. because there is no effective way to bet exotics.

Who said Betfair must provide everything? It's clear that their bread and butter is the win/place markets, and the tracks can still keep their moneymaking 30% takeout super exotics.

[classhandicapper]

if i want to bet my horse running in the 5th race at belmont today i walk up to the window and plunk down my $1000 and walk away with a ticket and then i am at the mercy of the parimutual system. if i go to betfair and try to bet $100 i might not get faded for my bet. some guy on the otherside of the computer might think i have the right horse and he is not interested in booking my action at the price he put up. he might take $5 of my bet or even less.



With all due respect this is all nonsense.

Have you ever even made a bet on an exchange?

If you want to bet $1000 and $1000 and it's available at the price you want you can get down your bet no matter who you are. If it's not available at the price you want, so be it.

I want to buy stocks all the time for $5 a share less than the current price but no one wants my action there either.

That's the way markets work.

You look at the market and make a decision. If something is attractive, you bet. If nothing is attractive, you don't bet. That's no different than looking at the price on a tote board and deciding if you want to bet or not, but you have the added advantage of occasionally getting a better price and locking in that price without the risk of the odds falling on the last flash.

If you are so anxious to get a bet in at any price or if the price at the track is superior, you still have the option of participating in the regular pools.

Exchange wagering may never totally replace pari mutual wagering because of exotics, but it's a great incremental option for players that play WIN, PLACE, and SHOW right now.

The main issue is how to keep the business model viable, attractive to players, and still be able to share some money with the tracks.

[lamboguy]

With all due respect this is all nonsense.

Have you ever even made a bet on an exchange?

If you want to bet $1000 and $1000 and it's available at the price you want you can get down your bet no matter who you are. If it's not available at the price you want, so be it.

I want to buy stocks all the time for $5 a share less than the current price but no one wants my action there either.

That's the way markets work.

You look at the market and make a decision. If something is attractive, you bet. If nothing is attractive, you don't bet. That's no different than looking at the price on a tote board and deciding if you want to bet or not, but you have the added advantage of occasionally getting a better price and locking in that price without the risk of the odds falling on the last flash.

If you are so anxious to get a bet in at any price or if the price at the track is superior, you still have the option of participating in the regular pools.

Exchange wagering may never totally replace pari mutual wagering because of exotics, but it's a great incremental option for players that play WIN, PLACE, and SHOW right now.

The main issue is how to keep the business model viable, attractive to players, and still be able to share some money with the tracks.please, i have been wagering on horses for 40 years. its not legal for me being a resident of the united states to personally make a wager on betfair. i explained on this thread what happened with a friend of mine that is 100% square guy in england. let me explain this to you so you might understand this perfectly clear, betfair did not spend all this time and money to put up a platform for anyone to take money out of their system that is not tied in with betfair itself. i would not doubt for one minute that if i were to get matched with betfair that its not one of their own personal computers there to take my money.

if i were to play stake races i am sure i would never have a problem with betfair. i play maiden races full of first time starters. whatever i could get matched in those races aren't worth the time and effort to bother with them.

the question i have for you since you think you know so much about betfarir is have you ever got down for a $200 bet on a first time starter running in any nyra track?

[thaskalos]

Of course there is a liquidity problem in USA maiden races...American residents are not permitted to wager with Betfair at this time. But if the Betfair wagering concept is adopted in this country, then this liquidity problem will be resolved...and bettors will be able to bet whatever they want...wherever they want it.

To me...the Betfair wagering concept is a godsend.

All my wagering life I have had the innate ability to eliminate false favorites at short prices...but I cannot fully capitalize on it, because I often cannot formulate another betting opinion on the race.

What I wouldn't give for the chance to wager AGAINST these false favorites...

[nearco]

That's a really odd argument. You are against the whole idea of Betting Exchanges because you can't get someone in a foreign country to match you on a larger sum on first time starter, who you probably have some insider info on?
Oookaaay.

So basically exchanges suck because there aren't enough suckers out there.

[BIG49010]

I watch Betfair markets on one of my screens at all times.

If anything the prices on first time starters on Betfair are 30 -40% higher than the track odds as a rule. If they are not, someone is operating with a trainer, you watch the tote you will figure it out. Knowledge is power.

You will see very strong sheet or figure horses that seem to get bet below the track odds quite often, but that makes for oportunities on other horses. You see strong action on a horse below the tote, makes you look a little closer to see what is going on.

Belmont as rule on Betfair is clean. Penn National, or Mountaineer you see some strange stuff.

[lamboguy]

i have a 2 fold reason for not being on the side for exchanges. the most important one is that i feel it will detract from on track handle. the amount that they will pay back to the track will not make up for what they will lose with betfair. the racetracks have to pay to put out a product. it costs big money to one a race day program. in foreign countries horseracing is stocked from the very elite people all over the rule. the queen of england just spent the whole week at royal ascot. the purse structure overseas is much smaller than what it is in this country. a maiden auction race has a purse of maybe $5000. on nyra that purse is $60k today. in the united states we have more people involved int he ownership of horses that are blue collar type people. in england its all sheiks and royalties. we don't have a kingdom here, and we don't have to many arab sheiks walking around the streets of louisville kentucky these days. of course things could change here some day and that might present the need for betfair. today it doesn't though and that is why i am against betfair.

[classhandicapper]

if i were to play stake races i am sure i would never have a problem with betfair. i play maiden races full of first time starters. whatever i could get matched in those races aren't worth the time and effort to bother with them.

the question i have for you since you think you know so much about betfarir is have you ever got down for a $200 bet on a first time starter running in any nyra track?

I am more familiar with E-Horse Exchange. When it comes to FTS, there will sometimes be no money available, sometimes small amounts from other regular players, or the money available will be at odds lower than those available at the track (so that someone that books a bet can turn around and lock in an arbitrage by betting it at the track). Sometimes there's plenty available though.

Everyone knows that it's difficult for outsiders to evaluate FTS well. There are insiders, clockers, and others that may know things about the horse that most outsiders don't, may have seen the horse work in company, may have seen the horse work on a farm somewhere etc... So no one is going to make a lot of money available at an attractive price when they have no idea what the fair price should be, but may be competing with someone that does.

What you want is for people to be total assholes and give their money to you. We should all be so lucky, but this is the real world.

The idea that the exchanges are bad because most people know they are at a disadvantage when it comes to FTS and won't allow you to rape and pillage them is silly. All markets are the same. Everybody is competing for an edge and no one is giving money away.

What you should do is take advantage of whatever you can get on the exchanges, put the rest through the pari mutual pools, and count your blessings when you get some money through the windows on the exchange at a better price and the horse wins.

That's what I do. Sometimes I want to make a big bet but only see a small amount of money available at a crazy price. I take as much as I can get and send rest through at the track. Sometimes I get 10-1 on a 5-1 shot for all the money. At the end of the year, it adds up.

[classhandicapper]

i have a 2 fold reason for not being on the side for exchanges. the most important one is that i feel it will detract from on track handle. the amount that they will pay back to the track will not make up for what they will lose with betfair. the racetracks have to pay to put out a product. it costs big money to one a race day program. in foreign countries horseracing is stocked from the very elite people all over the rule. the queen of england just spent the whole week at royal ascot. the purse structure overseas is much smaller than what it is in this country. a maiden auction race has a purse of maybe $5000. on nyra that purse is $60k today. in the united states we have more people involved int he ownership of horses that are blue collar type people. in england its all sheiks and royalties. we don't have a kingdom here, and we don't have to many arab sheiks walking around the streets of louisville kentucky these days. of course things could change here some day and that might present the need for betfair. today it doesn't though and that is why i am against betfair.

This is a fair criticism and it's an issue that needs to be resolved between the tracks and all the off track entities that take wagers

[lamboguy]

from what i have seen on the betfair matches, it leaves me with the perception that the maiden races in the united states have the most amount of match's compared to other races here. maiden races are bet very heavy at tracks throughout the united states. saratoga does a huge amount of business on on maiden races, probably more than any other track stateside. yet when my friend try's to bet my horses on betfair he gets limited action. from what i can see its a very efficient market for the sharks, and not so great for me. i know ahead of time that if i were to win using betfair all i can win is chicken feed. if anything it defeats the purpose of what it makes its claim to fame for.

the real bottom line is that if a person is going to bet only on betfair he will get less value for the total amount of money he wagers compared to the pari-mutual system. the reason why i am sure of this is that i know even if a person is not playing maiden races, he is up against sharks that are equipped with better pace figures and faster computers and strong information so when the player gets matched he is going to be at a severe disadvantage. if the player winds up on the "right" horse he can't get matched for what he wants. if he is on the "wrong" horse he can bet until the cows come home. and it doesn't matter from whichever direction the player is coming from, layer or player, he is going to get the worst of it more often than not.

i will admit that in theory betfair sounds great, but we don't live in theory, we live in reality. and the reality of betfair is precisely the way i have it spelled out.

[Stillriledup]

Of course there is a liquidity problem in USA maiden races...American residents are not permitted to wager with Betfair at this time. But if the Betfair wagering concept is adopted in this country, then this liquidity problem will be resolved...and bettors will be able to bet whatever they want...wherever they want it.

To me...the Betfair wagering concept is a godsend.

All my wagering life I have had the innate ability to eliminate false favorites at short prices...but I cannot fully capitalize on it, because I often cannot formulate another betting opinion on the race.

What I wouldn't give for the chance to wager AGAINST these false favorites...

The problem is that whatever America comes up with betting-exchance wise it won't nearly be as good as betfair OR will have as big of betting handle.

The question i want to know is this. If America legalizes betting exchanges, why would a person sign up with those exchanges and not just sign up with Betfair themselves?

[BIG49010]

Yesterday as an example of how they might not be as sharp on Betfair as many think.

The 6th at Belmont was taken off the grass, and Linda Rice ran an uncoupled pair.

The (1) Power Blast a turf horse was 2-1 on betfair with a huge handle, so the sharpies would be laying the horse (I guess) knowing he had not run on dirt.

The (10) Fight For VLT's (MTO) who was 3rd choice early in the betting, and was bet late at Belmont and Won was 5-1+ Betfair and paid 7.70 to win.

[Robert Goren]

There are plenty of issues with betting exchanges to be picked at by supporters or naysayers. But most of it come down to one real issue, the amount of money coming out of the bettors pocket that goes to the race track. Handicappers are desperately seeking a way to keep more their wagering dollar. The tracks and horsemen are desperately trying to hang on every dollar now being kept. That is the bottom line. The rest of the stuff is minor. I doubt that we ever see it in the US because the horsemen have enough power to stop it.

[lamboguy]

i have yet to see betfair offer NYRA anything for using their product to make money on, yet there is alot of handle that has gone to betfair instead of making it in the windows of NYRA and other tracks. on the day of the belmont i am told that betfair had over $10 million in matches on that card. NYRA only did $80 million, yet they had to pay the purses, and all the help at the track, betfair sat their with a pad of paper and a pencil and figured out how much money they made without having to provide the entertainment.

[Robert Goren]

An interesting point brought up in the following article. It is easy to drug a horse to run slower.
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/63647/panel-exchange-wagering-changes-everything?source=rss

[Some_One]

An interesting point brought up in the following article. It is easy to drug a horse to run slower.
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/63647/panel-exchange-wagering-changes-everything?source=rss

And it's also easier on Betfair to see unusual trading activity, and I'm sure there is enough people who'll catch a trend of a certain trainers horses running up the track at short odds with lots of layside action on Betfair. I centainly notice the opposite on Carla Gaines or Englehart horses taking a lot of back side action on BF.

[gm10]

please, i have been wagering on horses for 40 years. its not legal for me being a resident of the united states to personally make a wager on betfair. i explained on this thread what happened with a friend of mine that is 100% square guy in england. let me explain this to you so you might understand this perfectly clear, betfair did not spend all this time and money to put up a platform for anyone to take money out of their system that is not tied in with betfair itself. i would not doubt for one minute that if i were to get matched with betfair that its not one of their own personal computers there to take my money.

That's just wrong. Why on earth would they do that.
So what happened to this guy?


if i were to play stake races i am sure i would never have a problem with betfair. i play maiden races full of first time starters. whatever i could get matched in those races aren't worth the time and effort to bother with them.

the question i have for you since you think you know so much about betfarir is have you ever got down for a $200 bet on a first time starter running in any nyra track?

Yes. And a lot more. Remember we're talking about American races being bet on by non-American customers at this point.

[gm10]

And it's also easier on Betfair to see unusual trading activity, and I'm sure there is enough people who'll catch a trend of a certain trainers horses running up the track at short odds with lots of layside action on Betfair. I centainly notice the opposite on Carla Gaines or Englehart horses taking a lot of back side action on BF.

There is no doubt that there are American trainers/jockey's who are using Betfair. I've seen way too many suspicious betting patterns that were followed by very questionable rides. Often the horse will be heavily laid to win (=lose the race). I guess it's more risky to lay the horse to place/show.

[gm10]

There are plenty of issues with betting exchanges to be picked at by supporters or naysayers. But most of it come down to one real issue, the amount of money coming out of the bettors pocket that goes to the race track. Handicappers are desperately seeking a way to keep more their wagering dollar. The tracks and horsemen are desperately trying to hang on every dollar now being kept. That is the bottom line. The rest of the stuff is minor. I doubt that we ever see it in the US because the horsemen have enough power to stop it.

It is very short-sighted of them. Yes, the margins may be smaller, but long term a lot more money will be coming in, so income will be higher.

[classhandicapper]

the real bottom line is that if a person is going to bet only on betfair he will get less value for the total amount of money he wagers compared to the pari-mutual system.

i will admit that in theory betfair sounds great, but we don't live in theory, we live in reality. and the reality of betfair is precisely the way i have it spelled out.

This is where you are way off base.

It's a market. If the odds are appealing to you, you bet. If they aren't you don't. End of story. You have the advantage of seeing the alternative odds and comparing them and taking the best deal.

[Scottishracefan]

Belmont as rule on Betfair is clean. Penn National, or Mountaineer you see some strange stuff.

__________________
1oo% agree wouldnt bet on either of those tracks wth counterfeit money!!!!!;)

[Robert Goren]

Belmont as rule on Betfair is clean. Penn National, or Mountaineer you see some strange stuff.

__________________
1oo% agree wouldnt bet on either of those tracks wth counterfeit money!!!!!;)You don't have to go Betfair to see strange stuff at those two tracks.

[lamboguy]

This is where you are way off base.

It's a market. If the odds are appealing to you, you bet. If they aren't you don't. End of story. You have the advantage of seeing the alternative odds and comparing them and taking the best deal.it is a market and the market makers screw you. if you bet on stocks on the new york stock exchange the market maker will put up a price for a whole bunch of shares and except your action on either direction that you want to play them. on betfair the market makers put up prices and take very small amounts on one side and more on the other. betfair offers you a very unbalanced market unlike the nasdaq or new york stock exchange.

[gm10]

it is a market and the market makers screw you. if you bet on stocks on the new york stock exchange the market maker will put up a price for a whole bunch of shares and except your action on either direction that you want to play them. on betfair the market makers put up prices and take very small amounts on one side and more on the other. betfair offers you a very unbalanced market unlike the nasdaq or new york stock exchange.

There are no market makers on Betfair. It's a platform for peer-to-peer betting.

Betfair is nothing like the way you are describing it.

[classhandicapper]

it is a market and the market makers screw you. if you bet on stocks on the new york stock exchange the market maker will put up a price for a whole bunch of shares and except your action on either direction that you want to play them. on betfair the market makers put up prices and take very small amounts on one side and more on the other. betfair offers you a very unbalanced market unlike the nasdaq or new york stock exchange.

I think we can end this conversation now.

You hate exchanges (with some legitimate concern about the tracks) and don't like the idea that you can't rape and pillage suckers with the prices you would like to get on FTS.

I'll continue to take 4-1 on horses that are 3-1 at the track when I can get it and take 3-1 on horses at the track when they are 5-2 at the exchange. I've been doing that for several years now. At the end of the year I make more money and am very happy. I LOVE exchange betting and think it's the best thing that ever happened for GAMBLERS. The tracks however are going to have to figure out how to make the model work.

[comet52]

If everyone bet on an exchange and no money went to the track, what would fund purses and track operations? Exchange wagering that doesn't contribute to the health of the game itself is just a parasitic operation that will kill the host in short order.

[lamboguy]

If everyone bet on an exchange and no money went to the track, what would fund purses and track operations? Exchange wagering that doesn't contribute to the health of the game itself is just a parasitic operation that will kill the host in short order.
i went though this whole sherade and the only thing that i can conclude is that is that exchange wagering is the greatest thing in the world for everyone that thinks they are getting a fair shake on it. i can't get a fair shake and neither can the racetracks in north america. the day to day purse structure is much higher in north america than it is in europe. there is the difference in a nutshell.

richard perloff proclaims that he bets against bridgejumpers, but i heard him say that the best part about betfair and exchange betting is that if you don't like a horse you can bet against them. i looked at the lines they had on the computer for betfair and they had horses that you had to put up 300-1 to bet against them. in other words he thinks is a great deal to lay 300-1 and bet against a horse, yet he doesn't think its so good to lay 10-1 for a horse to run third. every single personality on TVG has done nothing but tell you the propaganda on how great betfair is and that we can't live without it here in this country.

personally i think all that exchange wagering can do in this country is ruin it here, and i hope they don't get their paws in this place.

[thaskalos]

i went though this whole sherade and the only thing that i can conclude is that is that exchange wagering is the greatest thing in the world for everyone that thinks they are getting a fair shake on it. i can't get a fair shake and neither can the racetracks in north america. the day to day purse structure is much higher in north america than it is in europe. there is the difference in a nutshell.

richard perloff proclaims that he bets against bridgejumpers, but i heard him say that the best part about betfair and exchange betting is that if you don't like a horse you can bet against them. i looked at the lines they had on the computer for betfair and they had horses that you had to put up 300-1 to bet against them. in other words he thinks is a great deal to lay 300-1 and bet against a horse, yet he doesn't think its so good to lay 10-1 for a horse to run third. every single personality on TVG has done nothing but tell you the propaganda on how great betfair is and that we can't live without it here in this country.

personally i think all that exchange wagering can do in this country is ruin it here, and i hope they don't get their paws in this place.
New ways of betting need to be created Lambo...because the current betting structures will not survive for too long.

EXOTICS betting is what drives this game currently, and, with the continuously shrinking fields, exotics betting is sure to get more and more unappetizing from a payoff standpoint...leading to continuously shrinking mutuel pools nationwide.

But the horse racing industry is notoriously resistant to change...and they won't do anything on their own until it's too late.

[Stillriledup]

i went though this whole sherade and the only thing that i can conclude is that is that exchange wagering is the greatest thing in the world for everyone that thinks they are getting a fair shake on it. i can't get a fair shake and neither can the racetracks in north america. the day to day purse structure is much higher in north america than it is in europe. there is the difference in a nutshell.

richard perloff proclaims that he bets against bridgejumpers, but i heard him say that the best part about betfair and exchange betting is that if you don't like a horse you can bet against them. i looked at the lines they had on the computer for betfair and they had horses that you had to put up 300-1 to bet against them. in other words he thinks is a great deal to lay 300-1 and bet against a horse, yet he doesn't think its so good to lay 10-1 for a horse to run third. every single personality on TVG has done nothing but tell you the propaganda on how great betfair is and that we can't live without it here in this country.

personally i think all that exchange wagering can do in this country is ruin it here, and i hope they don't get their paws in this place.


Exchanges permit you to cash in on more opinions. If you have an opinion that a 3-1 shot horse is no good, the exchange doesnt force you to come up with the winner amongst the remaining horses to profit. If you're right, you profit. With a normal race, not only do you have to be right about the 3-1 being no good, but you have to pick the winner. You have to be right twice to win once.

[lamboguy]

i loved watching ROYAL ASCOT for their meet. they only had 6 races a day. they had some fields that had 27 horses in it. they don't allow lassix or any other drugs and yet they can have giant fields running in them. they have plenty of people in that place watching those races all dressed up with tuxedo's and tuxedo hats. i have no idea what the attendance was yesterday in the rain, but the place looked packed to me. the races were as exciting as it gets, a horse from australia ran twice in the 4 day meet there. those people all looked like they a blast. when i walk into sulfolk downs or aqueduct it looks like rigamortis has set in.

another thing that i liked in a big way is that they ran 2 year old races with as few as 3 horses in it. i remember last year at philly park that i sent a 2 yo to them to run, they got 7 entry's for the race in the early part of june and they would not let the race go with less than 8. they wrote a dated claiming race instead of a two year old. 2 year olds can't sit in their stalls for to long, they injure themselves. that 2 yo race did not go until the 2nd week of july last year. they would not even bring the race back. its true we can learn from our friends overseas because what happens here is purely insanity.

[nearco]

i went though this whole sherade and the only thing that i can conclude is that is that exchange wagering is the greatest thing in the world for everyone that thinks they are getting a fair shake on it. i can't get a fair shake and neither can the racetracks in north america. the day to day purse structure is much higher in north america than it is in europe. there is the difference in a nutshell.



That is not true.

Avg prize money per race for flat racing in 2009

GB Euro13,235
France Euro 22,908
Ireland Euro 27,437
USA Euro 12,927

There are plenty of horses running for peanuts in the US. It's not all Belmont, Santa Anita and slot tracks.

[jotb]

another thing that i liked in a big way is that they ran 2 year old races with as few as 3 horses in it. i remember last year at philly park that i sent a 2 yo to them to run, they got 7 entry's for the race in the early part of june and they would not let the race go with less than 8. they wrote a dated claiming race instead of a two year old. 2 year olds can't sit in their stalls for to long, they injure themselves. that 2 yo race did not go until the 2nd week of july last year. they would not even bring the race back. its true we can learn from our friends overseas because what happens here is purely insanity.[/QUOTE]

This makes no sense..If you can fill races with 8 horses or more then that's the way it should go..Usually, and you should know this, if the race had 7 in it then it's brought back on the overnight as an extra..I can't see why the race was used almost a month later unless it was another book race..I'm sure during that month if the race was brought back on the overnight several times they would have used it..Apparently, they were filling all other races with 8 or more..

[Humph]

If everyone bet on an exchange and no money went to the track, what would fund purses and track operations? Exchange wagering that doesn't contribute to the health of the game itself is just a parasitic operation that will kill the host in short order.

The problem is that the exchanges in the UK came into being after gaming legislation had been ratified , which is why they (exchanges) are a law unto themselves. Betfair , which is not the only betting exchange out there , does however make a voluntary contribution to the levy in the UK ( about £1mil , I think , which is , in effect, next to nothing ) , but the trouble over there has always been that too little of the money generated by the betting industry is returned to the sport , exchanges or no exchanges.

[lamboguy]

another thing that i liked in a big way is that they ran 2 year old races with as few as 3 horses in it. i remember last year at philly park that i sent a 2 yo to them to run, they got 7 entry's for the race in the early part of june and they would not let the race go with less than 8. they wrote a dated claiming race instead of a two year old. 2 year olds can't sit in their stalls for to long, they injure themselves. that 2 yo race did not go until the 2nd week of july last year. they would not even bring the race back. its true we can learn from our friends overseas because what happens here is purely insanity.

This makes no sense..If you can fill races with 8 horses or more then that's the way it should go..Usually, and you should know this, if the race had 7 in it then it's brought back on the overnight as an extra..I can't see why the race was used almost a month later unless it was another book race..I'm sure during that month if the race was brought back on the overnight several times they would have used it..Apparently, they were filling all other races with 8 or more..[/QUOTE]
you know as well as i do that it is no good for a 2 year old to sit in a stall. that is how to get a 2 yo injured 101. 2yo racing is always the future of the sport. in keenland this year they let the races go with as few as 6 in them. in nyra they let them go with 4 in it this year and know ahead of time there will be a scarch. you take a look at the racing program in parx, it is a joke for the money they give away there.

[Scottishracefan]

Some interesting posts here..Ascot is one of our big meetings,we have some poor stuff as well ,prize money is very very poor for every day meetings,i have a share in a horse who won 3 races last year gran total £8,850,,it costs £15,000 plus extras to keep a horse for a year..no wonder there is alot of dodgy goings on here in the UK.

[nearco]

The problem is that the exchanges in the UK came into being after gaming legislation had been ratified , which is why they (exchanges) are a law unto themselves. Betfair , which is not the only betting exchange out there , does however make a voluntary contribution to the levy in the UK ( about £1mil , I think , which is , in effect, next to nothing ) , but the trouble over there has always been that too little of the money generated by the betting industry is returned to the sport , exchanges or no exchanges.

Their voluntary contribution is £6m, which is about what they would pay if they were operating under a UK betting lisence (they operate out of Gibraltar and so are not subject to UK taxes). They also sponsor races to the tune of about another £1-2m a year.
Still small potatoes in the grand scheme of things, yes. Keep in mind that racing is only a small part of Betfair, you can bet on just about anything on there.

[lamboguy]

no matter what you say, its great racing in england, with lots of people attending and seeing most of the time competetive races, with horses running without the aid of drugs.

maybe what we need in this country is to cut the purses too and wipe out the drugs. it will be much more exciting racing for whomever choses to participate in it. one thing i am sure, getting rid of drugs will bring more players into the game

[Humph]

Their voluntary contribution is £6m, which is about what they would pay if they were operating under a UK betting lisence (they operate out of Gibraltar and so are not subject to UK taxes). They also sponsor races to the tune of about another £1-2m a year.
Still small potatoes in the grand scheme of things, yes. Keep in mind that racing is only a small part of Betfair, you can bet on just about anything on there.

Just reading that they'd recently moved to Gibraltar . Also reading that at one time their contribution was £1 mil - knew I'd heard it from somewhere - so many thanks for keeping me up to speed :)