Irwin: "Classics are no place for amateurs" [Archive] - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

Leparoux

06-12-2011, 11:56 AM

This is the full post of what he said on Facebook...

"Mud didn't cost AK the Belmont. At the break, Isn't He Perfect came over at the break, intimidated Mucho Macho Man, who slammed into Animal Kingdom so hard that our colt nearly went down. Our jockey lost his left iron, which was not corrected until the turn. We never had a chance. Isn't He Perfect had no business being in this race and he screwed it up for a lot of horses today. Classics are no place for amateurs."

PhantomOnTour

06-12-2011, 11:58 AM

No place for amateurs!?

Tell that to Da' Tara or Mine That Bird or Commendable or Ruler On Ice or...

onefast99

06-12-2011, 12:03 PM

No place for amateurs!?

Tell that to Da' Tara or Mine That Bird or Commendable or Ruler On Ice or...
Ruler on Ice had every reason to be in that race. Irwin can bitch all he wants, these types of things happen in stakes races as well as low level claimers it is part of the game. If AK is that good, and I believe he is very good on a fast track he will win some very prestigious races this year.

sonnyp

06-12-2011, 12:16 PM

irwin is, as i have indicated in other threads, one of the biggest cry-baby jerks in the game. he's proven that with his comments in 2 of 3 of the classics.

it is he who acts like an amateur and is an imberasement.

Leparoux

06-12-2011, 12:24 PM

To be clear, he was talking about Isn't He Perfect and not Ruler On Ice.

Relwob Owner

06-12-2011, 12:25 PM

I have always admired people who can win with class and lose with class. Throughout the Triple Crown series, Mr. Irwin has not shown an ability to do either one.

Casino

06-12-2011, 12:33 PM

I have always admired people who can win with class and lose with class. Throughout the Triple Crown series, Mr. Irwin has not shown an ability to do either one.

RO,theres a old saying

"When you win say very little,when you lose say less"

Relwob Owner

06-12-2011, 12:47 PM

RO,theres a old saying

"When you win say very little,when you lose say less"

I like that

toussaud

06-12-2011, 02:54 PM

Now johnny v has called out Maragh

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/triple-crown/velazquez-maragh-was-careless-in-belmont-stakes-incident/

sonnyp

06-12-2011, 03:08 PM

johnny v and barry irwin make a good pair. it'll be interesting to see how long motion, a class act, can stay with this bunch.

Dahoss9698

06-12-2011, 03:15 PM

Relwob Owner

06-12-2011, 03:41 PM

If anyone watches the head on, Velazquez's comments are pretty accurate.

I don't agree with what Irwin said and considering some of his entrants in TC races, he shouldn't have said anything. But Velazquez has a point about what Maragh did out of the gate.

DH-I tried Brisnet for a head on earlier and they didnt have one for the Belmont-where did you see it? Thanks

Sparky13

06-12-2011, 03:48 PM

Saratoga_Mike

06-12-2011, 03:53 PM

I am no expert in this handicapping world. Why is there a "money earned requirement" for the Derby, but not for the Preakness and the Belmont? How did Monzon and Isn't He Perfect, and for that matter Ruler On Ice get into this race with less than $200,000 earned by each?

Not really true - see below.

In the event more than 16 entries pass through the entry box at the closing,
the starters will be determined at the closing with the first eight (8) starters given preference by accumulating the highest earning in Graded Sweepstakes at a mile or over. For purposes of this preference, the graded status of each race shall be the Grade assigned by the International Cataloguing Standards Committee in Part 1 of The International Cataloguing Standards as
published annually by The Jockey Club Information Systems, Inc. The next five (5) starters will be determined by accumulating the highest earnings (lifetime) in all non-restricted sweepstakes. Non-restricted Sweepstakes" shall mean those sweepstakes whose conditions contain no restrictions other than age or sex. The remaining three (3) starters shall be determined by
accumulating the highest earnings in all races. Should this preference produce any ties the additional starter(s) shall be determined by lot. If the rules described result in the exclusion of any horse the $10,000 entry fee will be refunded to the owner of said horse. The above conditions notwithstanding any horse which earns purse money in either The Kentucky Derby or The Preakness Stakes shall be included in the initial eight (8) starters of The Belmont Stakes.

06-12-2011, 03:56 PM

I'd be curious to hear Irwin's take on Dr. Greenfield's ridiculous performance in the Belmont in 2001. You know, the horse that delayed the start because he wouldn't load then proceeded to run last most of the way, eventually losing by a few football fields. Who was his owner, Barry?

Dahoss9698

06-12-2011, 04:01 PM

DH-I tried Brisnet for a head on earlier and they didnt have one for the Belmont-where did you see it? Thanks

NYRA's website has free replays, pan and headshots for all of their races. You just need to give them an email address. There is a link on the bottom left of the homepage.

nijinski

06-12-2011, 04:03 PM

When Irwin makes statements like this , it makes it hard to feel sorry for him but he does have a right to complain about yesterday's race.The Jocks are going to be called in and they should be.
I feel really bad for the Animal Kingdom crew , that start was loke a nightmare.

Saratoga_Mike

06-12-2011, 04:05 PM

Why would one ever feel sorry for Irwin? If he never won another race, I wouldn't feel sorry for him.

Relwob Owner

06-12-2011, 04:14 PM

NYRA's website has free replays, pan and headshots for all of their races. You just need to give them an email address. There is a link on the bottom left of the homepage.

Thanks DH

Robert Fischer

06-12-2011, 04:15 PM

If anyone watches the head on, Velazquez's comments are pretty accurate.

I don't agree with what Irwin said and considering some of his entrants in TC races, he shouldn't have said anything. But Velazquez has a point about what Maragh did out of the gate.

good point.
the #11 bulled over without a doubt.
the #10 was a little bit goofy and hesitant out of the gate which amplified things a bit, but the 11 was at fault.

Robert Fischer

06-12-2011, 04:26 PM

Irwin's comment - tough call... sounded like sour grapes... and we know that good horses do throw in a bad start on occasion (the idea that IHP's amatuer ability had something to do with his poor start)

on the flip side - IHP "bobble @ break, crowded rivals" in the Preakness. He was not a win or even a trifecta contender. 30-1 on him was an UNDERLAY. He's been over 30-1 in pretty much all of his races at a decent class. He really should not have been in the Belmont regardless of whether he occasionally lugs in @ break

Sparky13

06-12-2011, 04:38 PM

Not really true - see below.

In the event more than 16 entries pass through the entry box at the closing,
the starters will be determined at the closing with the first eight (8) starters given preference by accumulating the highest earning in Graded Sweepstakes at a mile or over. For purposes of this preference, the graded status of each race shall be the Grade assigned by the International Cataloguing Standards Committee in Part 1 of The International Cataloguing Standards as
published annually by The Jockey Club Information Systems, Inc. The next five (5) starters will be determined by accumulating the highest earnings (lifetime) in all non-restricted sweepstakes. Non-restricted Sweepstakes" shall mean those sweepstakes whose conditions contain no restrictions other than age or sex. The remaining three (3) starters shall be determined by
accumulating the highest earnings in all races. Should this preference produce any ties the additional starter(s) shall be determined by lot. If the rules described result in the exclusion of any horse the $10,000 entry fee will be refunded to the owner of said horse. The above conditions notwithstanding any horse which earns purse money in either The Kentucky Derby or The Preakness Stakes shall be included in the initial eight (8) starters of The Belmont Stakes.

Thanks Saratoga Mike. I really didn't know all the requirments for selection to The Belmont. As I mentioned, I am no expert handicapper.

Saratoga_Mike

06-12-2011, 04:40 PM

Thanks Saratoga Mike. I really didn't know all the requirments for selection to The Belmont. As I mentioned, I am no expert handicapper.

Didn't know myself until your post made me wonder, so I looked them up.

nijinski

06-12-2011, 04:59 PM

Why would one ever feel sorry for Irwin? If he never won another race, I wouldn't feel sorry for him.
Well I did say the crew , which includes Motion an JV . Once the early momentum was lost his race was over and I'm just glad JV stayed on and
we didn't see a loose Animal Kingdom weaving through field .

Horse race history has many accounts of connections and jocks pointing fingers and naming blame after an incident .JV's own agent was the subject of several in the classics.

Saratoga_Mike

06-12-2011, 05:06 PM

Well I did say the crew , which includes Motion an JV . Once the early momentum was lost his race was over and I'm just glad JV stayed on and
we didn't see a loose Animal Kingdom weaving through field .

Horse race history has many accounts of connections and jocks pointing fingers and naming blame after an incident .JV's own agent was the subject of several in the classics.

I like Motion -- kind of surprised he trains for Irwin.

nijinski

06-12-2011, 05:15 PM

I like Motion -- kind of surprised he trains for Irwin.
Well I guess there is a price to pay with an owner like him but I'm glad
Motion got a the Derby win.

lamboguy

06-12-2011, 05:15 PM

I like Motion -- kind of surprised he trains for Irwin.the reason why motion trains for team valor is because he gets top horses that are broken and trained properly before he puts his hands on them and he gets paid well for doing it. incase he wins he gets a 10% bonus plus all his help gets bonus's too!

Saratoga_Mike

06-12-2011, 05:17 PM

the reason why motion trains for team valor is because he gets top horses that are broken and trained properly before he puts his hands on them and he gets paid well for doing it. incase he wins he gets a 10% bonus plus all his help gets bonus's too!

We will see how long it lasts. Graham just seems like such a first-class guy, from his TV interviews to how he carries himself at Delaware Park.

lamboguy

06-12-2011, 05:25 PM

We will see how long it lasts. Graham just seems like such a first-class guy, from his TV interviews to how he carries himself at Delaware Park.my partner still trains horses for irwin, he doesn't have a problem with him.

we see irwin's actions in public on spur of the moment things. he has very snap reactions. so when he opens up his mouth he sounds rough around the edges and doesn't hold anything back. the man pays his bills on time and expects a good job when he sends his horses out to be trained. also irwin has to answer to his investors so he has some pressure on him too. thoughout the past 20 years i have seen him do a pretty decent job managing his horses

Saratoga_Mike

06-12-2011, 05:28 PM

my partner still trains horses for irwin, he doesn't have a problem with him.

we see irwin's actions in public on spur of the moment things. he has very snap reactions. so when he opens up his mouth he sounds rough around the edges and doesn't hold anything back. the man pays his bills on time and expects a good job when he sends his horses out to be trained. also irwin has to answer to his investors so he has some pressure on him too. thoughout the past 20 years i have seen him do a pretty decent job managing his horses

He used to write an occassional column for the BloodHorse, I believe. I always found him preachy and arrogant in the written word, too. I appreciate your defense of him, but I just don't like him.

lamboguy

06-12-2011, 05:37 PM

i never met the man or spoke to him. he came out with the statement that he has no use for designer drugs used on horses. i can tell you he practices what he preaches there.

i can see why someone would not like his public personality, he speaks whats on his mind and makes alot of sense sometimes.

this business has tons of diffetent ego's. he has a big ego. if we didn't have guys like him in this game it would be more boring than it is alsready. on balance i would say when you compare him to others he is one of the ones that is real good for this sport.

Stillriledup

06-12-2011, 05:40 PM

Think of the times when you bet a race and got in a speed duel with, or, got blocked by a horse who was a million to one and had no chance on paper. You're STEAMING mad knowing that this no hoper cost you the race by 'getting in your way'.

Multiply that by 10 and you can see where Barry is coming from.

Maybe the triple crown IS a place for amateurs and anyone who is NOT an amateur should stay away from those races and run in other races where people don't just enter to enter.,

Saratoga_Mike

06-12-2011, 05:45 PM

lamboguy

06-12-2011, 06:09 PM

you put up your money and play the game within the confines of the rules. isn't he perfect had every right to be in the race. if that horse banged into Nehro or some other contender and Animal Kingdom won the race, Barry Irwin would have told you how great the race was and how good the rest of the field was.

he got the worst of it and he that is the way he responded. he was not a happy man after the race and more than likely there was smoke coming out of his ears after the incident. so right after the race he just blew he became a cry baby. i give him that right to act that way in public or private. he probably wishes he kept his trap shut, but thats not the way the guy is.

sonnyp

06-12-2011, 06:13 PM

he's been making an ass of himself around saratoga in july/august for years.

Robert Fischer

06-12-2011, 06:20 PM

you put up your money and play the game within the confines of the rules. isn't he perfect had every right to be in the race. if that horse banged into Nehro or some other contender and Animal Kingdom won the race, Barry Irwin would have told you how great the race was and how good the rest of the field was.

excellent post :ThmbUp:

and so true (not a knock on Irwin either), that's human nature... we usually see things from OUR perspective.
Especially in an emotional event.

In today's day and age you almost need to have a screener for things like Twitter and Facebook or be very very disciplined... it doesn't seem like it, but people actually read this stuff, and today it is in fashion to actually write sports articles featuring such quotes. Often in misleading fashion as if the quote was meant outside the context of that SOCIAL NETWORK

sonnyp

06-12-2011, 06:24 PM

excellent post :ThmbUp:

and so true (not a knock on Irwin either), that's human nature... we usually see things from OUR perspective.
Especially in an emotional event.

In today's day and age you almost need to have a screener for things like Twitter and Facebook or be very very disciplined... it doesn't seem like it, but people actually read this stuff, and today it is in fashion to actually write sports articles featuring such quotes. Often in misleading fashion as if the quote was meant outside the context of that SOCIAL NETWORK

facebook and the "social network" were made for guys like irwin. he's a modern day barnum and bailey. those things expose him to more "suckers".

i was just thinking of the name "team valor". just what would make his operation full of valor ? only in his mind.

Rackon

06-12-2011, 06:28 PM

Spalding No!

06-12-2011, 06:52 PM

And he's apparently good to work for.

Yep.

Just ask Neil Drysdale, Julio Canani, Jenine Sahadi, Ralph Nicks, Mark Hennig, Steve Asmussen, Todd Pletcher, Dale Romans, Michael De Kock, Kiaran McLaughlin, Gary Capuano, Michael Matz, Marco Botti, Elliot Walden, Mark Casse, Chris Block, Ronnie Werner, Mike Tomlinson, Niall O'Callaghan, Rick Violette ...

Pell Mell

06-12-2011, 07:55 PM

Sonny wouldn't work for him for a millon a week. :lol:

onefast99

06-12-2011, 08:02 PM

facebook and the "social network" were made for guys like irwin. he's a modern day barnum and bailey. those things expose him to more "suckers".

i was just thinking of the name "team valor". just what would make his operation full of valor ? only in his mind.
Repole has a lot to say and many on this forum feel he is great for the game.

Saratoga_Mike

06-12-2011, 08:03 PM

Yep.

Just ask Neil Drysdale, Julio Canani, Jenine Sahadi, Ralph Nicks, Mark Hennig, Steve Asmussen, Todd Pletcher, Dale Romans, Michael De Kock, Kiaran McLaughlin, Gary Capuano, Michael Matz, Marco Botti, Elliot Walden, Mark Casse, Chris Block, Ronnie Werner, Mike Tomlinson, Niall O'Callaghan, Rick Violette ...

So he's on his 21st trainer and you think that might mean something? :)
Great list.

Stillriledup

06-12-2011, 08:05 PM

I agree with 90% of what Irwin said in his statement. If I were a connection of AK I'd be frustrated as hell with what happened, and probably angry too.

But that's horse racing.

It was 100% classless of Irwin to make the statement.

I think Barry's one of the more interesting owners in racing and - mouth aside - he's good for the game. I like his breeding program. He generally has a good eye for a horse. And he's apparently good to work for.

If we threw out every TB owner in North America with a big ego we'd hardly have enough horses left race.

Personally, i'd love to hear someone not be politically correct for once. Our country is going down the political correctness tubes, i long for the old days when people would actually speak their minds. Nowadays, people can't say anything without having the entire world coming down on them for 'insulting' someone. Good god, what kind of country are we turning INTO for christsakes.

Its about time someone got called out for entering a no hoper in one of these Triple crown races.

06-12-2011, 08:48 PM

he got the worst of it and he that is the way he responded. he was not a happy man after the race and more than likely there was smoke coming out of his ears after the incident. so right after the race he just blew he became a cry baby. i give him that right to act that way in public or private. he probably wishes he kept his trap shut, but thats not the way the guy is.

You don't find it hypocritical after the ridiculous performance I mentioned earlier?

lamboguy

06-12-2011, 09:37 PM

You don't find it hypocritical after the ridiculous performance I mentioned earlier?
of course i do, we are all hypocrites once in awhile.

sonnyp

06-13-2011, 01:31 AM

Sonny wouldn't work for him for a millon a week. :lol:

the thing that made me leave was dealing with the owners.

i once had an owner (i could not make this up) who i asked to take his horses and to bring cash for what he owed me when the truck came.

couldn't stand the guy. a few days after he was gone, he was a lawyer and very sensitive to negative comments about his ethnenticity, i received a letter. he dressed me down for my lack of respect and told me, with my attitude, (i'm of italian decent) i would soon be in a factory packing pepper and egg sandwiches with the rest of my "goombas" for lunch. (swear it's true)

i framed it, hung it on my office wall and read it EVERY MORNING before we got started at the barn.

sometimes, dealing with some people just is not worth what it pays.

JPinMaryland

06-13-2011, 03:51 AM

What does it mean "I asked to take his horses?"

"Hello, can I take your horses?"

sonnyp

06-13-2011, 01:05 PM

What does it mean "I asked to take his horses?"

"Hello, can I take your horses?"

i was trying to relate the story in as nice a way as possible. i had had enough of the guy, and i told him to come and pick up the horses i was training for him (3) , go drive somebody else nuts and bring cash to settle up before he took the horses.

sometime a relationship becomes unworkable.....look at the divorce rates.

JPinMaryland

06-13-2011, 03:09 PM

so the guy wrote you a nasty letter in return. I assume he paid up. No one was injured or killed. ...that was it?

toussaud

06-13-2011, 03:15 PM

there is now shakeup in the team valor camp

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/the-biz/team-valor-news-wellman-departs-lowe-joins-staff/

sonnyp

06-13-2011, 03:16 PM

so the guy wrote you a nasty letter in return. I assume he paid up. No one was injured or killed. ...that was it?

i just thought that it was ironic that a guy that was hypersensitive about derogatory comments about his ethnenticity would send a letter with terms such as "pepper and egg sandwiches"(which i love) and "goombas".

JPinMaryland

06-13-2011, 03:22 PM

thanks for the explanation, i understand a little better now.

Am half Italian myself so I have heard a lot of those slurs. Didnt want to criticize your grammar too much...

sonnyp

06-13-2011, 03:32 PM

thanks for the explanation, i understand a little better now.

Am half Italian myself so I have heard a lot of those slurs. Didnt want to criticize your grammar too much...

i flunked english.

Spalding No!

06-13-2011, 03:38 PM

there is now shakeup in the team valor camp

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/the-biz/team-valor-news-wellman-departs-lowe-joins-staff/

"It's time for me to write some books."

How precious.

Mr_Ed

06-13-2011, 06:22 PM

Rick's Natural Star set the standard for an amateur in a classic.

I saw no such horse last Saturday.

nijinski

06-13-2011, 08:03 PM

i just thought that it was ironic that a guy that was hypersensitive about derogatory comments about his ethnenticity would send a letter with terms such as "pepper and egg sandwiches"(which i love) and "goombas".

OK fess up Sonny . What choice names did "you" call him? :D

sonnyp

06-13-2011, 08:09 PM

OK fess up Sonny . What choice names did "you" call him? :D

before or after i got the letter ????

nijinski

06-13-2011, 09:06 PM

before or after i got the letter ????
LOL , not to worry , Iwas just joking . But now I'm wondering.

nijinski

06-13-2011, 09:12 PM

Barry usually had something to say about Shaq and Romans would come right back at him. Has anyone heard anything from the Goodnaught Shivmengal
crew?

speed

06-13-2011, 09:25 PM

Rick's Natural Star set the standard for an amateur in a classic.

I saw no such horse last Saturday.
What a match race it would be.
Mr Ed versus Rick's Natural Star.

Mr_Ed

06-13-2011, 11:37 PM

What a match race it would be.
Mr Ed versus Rick's Natural Star.

:lol:

Gotta admit, though.......RNS held tough for 4 furlongs.

PaceAdvantage

06-14-2011, 01:54 AM

Barry usually had something to say about Shaq and Romans would come right back at him. Has anyone heard anything from the Goodnaught Shivmengal
crew?Goodnaught? Try Doodnauth. Shivmangal.

Google can be an invaluable friend.

Tom

06-14-2011, 07:47 AM

Nice discussion on this on ATR Monday, top of the second hour, with the Mig.
I was kind of surprised to hear such candor.

FenceBored

06-14-2011, 10:14 AM

<conspiracy_theory>
An incident that may or may not have been an accident and kept the post-time favorite off the board? As them lawyers like to say, cui bono (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2011/06/05/2011-06-05_mob_on_track_to_win_with_otb_gone_bookies_are_r iding_high_with_belmont_stakes_on.html?r=news).
</conspiracy_theory>

:D