John Ward lays it on them. A must read.

[Suff]

http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=19001

[Pace Cap'n]

Very interesting article.

Can anyone expound on "mechanical manipulation"?

He said there are "too many ways to short-cut a horse and put racing careers in jeopardy," and also said he's against "mechanical manipulation" of horses' legs.

[BillW]

It's interesting that he singles out TVG for cutting on track attendance when they offer wagering in only a few states. It's also interesting that the only thing he addresses is the "gimme" aspects of the racing problem, assuming that the product is perfectly acceptable as it stands. No mention of improving the product and customer satisfaction as a way to increase purses.

The reality is that the internet cuts on track attendance because they OFFER A BETTER PRODUCT, and do it without VLT's! Figuring out how to squeeze more money out of the customer while ignoring the competition is a recipe for disaster.

Bill

[Suff]

Originally posted by Pace Cap'n
Very interesting article.

Can anyone expound on "mechanical manipulation"?

He's talking about.. I think. The machine that Gill alledgedly used at Gulf Stream last year. We talked about it here a few months back in July. The name... escapes me. Someone will come right behind me and provid it.

They cost about 35-50K? And they MASK PAIN. You give the horse what looks like an x-ray...when in fact t there are electronic and magnetic fields that manupuilate tendons and Muscle. I'm a novice and know only tiny pieces about it. Show me the wire knows the name.. I think she told me last time.. I forgot.

[shanta]

I FOUND THE STATEMENT VERY INTERESTING BY WARD WHERE HE INDICATES A HORSES CONFORMATION MAY BE OVERRATED WHEN IT COMES TO PERFORMANCE ON THE TRACK."PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE IT,BUT CROOKED HORSES RUN AS FAST OR FASTER THAN THE OTHERS" HE SAID.:eek: :eek: RICHIE

[Suff]

The jist of the article I found interesting was the "straying" from the pack attitude. I came upon this because I am following the Keeneland Sale and thats where he made comments...speech?

Anyway.. This sale is pretty good evidence of where he is coming from and its only appropaitte that he say things that make some sense and things that don't. Things that make sense to people like us..I mean.. the players and fans.

He's in with the elite.. the big spenders and breeders. They're agenda isn't and should'nt be in direct allaince with the Players..or even the majority of owners.

A family of 5 Humans...2 adults, 2 teen boys and a teen girl. You think it'd be hard to look at the boys and girls...and tell how they'll develop and look similiar to thier parents? Of course thier are deviations.. But those are just as commonaly seen at Birth as they are in a the teens. e.g Red hair from two Brown Haired parents. My point being...it would'nt to hard to estimate how the Kids will develop.

Of course with Horses.. the biggest difference is.. The Mare. The Sire breeds to a Different Mare each time. Unlike the Human Family. I'm not talking stupid here. I'm talking simple.

What I see here is the Big Breeders have the Stallions they want. The Top 10 breeders and Owners have the Top Stallions to themselves. So now they are out here paying big money for potential Mares. Many people out here know Arabis. High Profile Talented Filly on the NYRA circuit. a good allowance filly is all. Won all her open NW's 1, 2 and 3 at belmont. Won a cheap non graded stakes at Delaware and was 4th in the Lady secret at Monmouth this year. Earned less than 200K lifetime. Imagine they paid 3 Million for her yesterday. She is out of Deuty Minister and her Dam was out of Alydar,,, but still. 3 Mil? Its only Natural that John Ward would want the Industry to subsidize the breeding industry. 10 people are driving the whole thing... who has 3 million for this Filly? 99.99 of the people in Horse racing don't. So why woud John Wards agenda make sense to any of them.

Another NY Filly is here to... and I expect some crazy money to go on her as well. ZONK. Grade 3 winner and Grade 1 placed. 600k Lifetime earnings Whats she worth? 9 mil?

[Suff]

Originally posted by Pace Cap'n
Very interesting article.

Can anyone expound on "mechanical manipulation"?

Came to me via e-mail. Shock Wave therapy machine

http://www.animalnetwork.com/petindustry/vpn/articleview.asp?Section=&RecordNo=1446

[Observer]

Originally posted by Pace Cap'n
Very interesting article.

Can anyone expound on "mechanical manipulation"?

I have to admit, I haven't read the article yet .. but I'm wondering if he may mean the surgeries some farms will put foals through so they have more correct conformation through their legs when they pass through the sales rings. Of course, it could also be an all-inclusive statement referring to any sort of artificial manipulation of a horse's legs.

[Jaguar]

Suff, thanks for posting all the good info. This stuff is important to know.

Those that blame TVG for the general dropoff in Thoroughbred racetrack attendance are mistaken. What has really impacted the game is not just the State lotteries, which rob people of their money- legally- but the casinos.

Case in point, New York State loses a billion dollars a year to the fact that New Yorkers travel to Atlantic City to gamble(as well as to Connecticut).

Suddenly the New York State legislature has awoken to this fact, but consider that Atlantic City has offered casino gambling since 1978!

Governor Cuomo sat around for years, dreaming of making a run for the Presidency of the United States, while the bandits in the NYRA management lined their pockets and Aqueduct went to hell.

The appearance of VLT's should go a long way toward correcting this downward slide in on-track attendance, we hope.

But, when we put our ears to the ground, listening for the approach of enemy cavalry, let it not be the sound of Donald Trump or Steve Wynn, or Mr. Stronach, bringing a 120,000 sq. ft. casino to install on what was the racing oval.

All The Best,

Jaguar

[PurplePower]

Originally posted by Observer
I have to admit, I haven't read the article yet .. but I'm wondering if he may mean the surgeries some farms will put foals through so they have more correct conformation through their legs when they pass through the sales rings. Of course, it could also be an all-inclusive statement referring to any sort of artificial manipulation of a horse's legs. I think you have it right Obs.
Ward also touched on medication as it relates to the auction business. He said it's hard for trainers to purchase horses at sales, in part because the rules vary. There is no disclosure for yearling sales, yet 2-year-old in training sales have guidelines in place
........
Ward said that as a buyer, he seeks out individuals and organizations he trusts when it comes to raising horses. He said there are "too many ways to short-cut a horse and put racing careers in jeopardy," and also said he's against "mechanical manipulation" of horses' legs. Ward said if people insist on altering horses' conformation, they should be honest about it.



Farms nowdays "scrape" the cannon bone of foals that have certain leg anomalies. Lateral (or medial) deviation of the third metacarpal (cannon bone) is "corrected" by scraping the bone on the "other side" and causing the bone to grow more toward the middle (if lateral deviation) or outside. (Basically, instead of the knee being centered over the cannon bone, the cannon bone is more to the outside (more of knee on inside). Inside of cannon is scraped and bone grows faster on inside than outside and appears to become more centered. Problem is, that is NOT the natural structure of the horse and may put undue stress on the lower carpel joint. )

I agree 100% with John that if that is done to a foal it should be mandatory that it is reported.

[Valuist]

I don't think VLTs would be nearly as successful in a relatively low populated state like Kentucky; at least in comparison to what it could do to NY purses. I didn't hear Ward mention the number one thing that would help the industry: CUT THE TAKEOUT.

[cato]

The decline in racing has little to do with off-track betting, video, internet, etc. For God sake, football is everywhere, on tv 6 days a week, betting can be done on the internet, etc., etc., and yet all pro stadiums (other than the Cardinals) and many college stadiums are packed all the time.

Horse Racing is seeing an ontrack decline becasue it (with the exception of the few nicer places like Saratoga and Del Mar) has (i) crappy, uncomfotable buildings that are poorly maintained (the basic design reminds me of a state prison), with expensive but bad concesssions, (ii) a mediocre product that is stretched thin by constant year-round racing, (iii) lost its allure as an "event" like football and other sports have (due to the constant year-round racing), (iv) generally failed to evolve to be fan/better friendly, (v) faield to come up with any marketing efforts to attract peopel to the track other than "give-aways" of tote bags and similar crap...etc., etc.

While I love to see horse racing live, the package nees to be appealing and it has to be good enough to force me to leave the comforts of home and computer and trek to the track. So, with Remington Park, I'll rarely do that becasue its just not worth it. On the other hand, if the choice involved going to Del Mar, its something I would do on a much more frequent basis... and having said that, if placed like RP would just do one thing--put out a better product with better horses, I would be much more likely to attend.

So endeth the rant...

Cheers, Cato

[Whirlaway]

Personally, I think that the combination of exotic betting and Off Track Betting killed racing. The rise of exotic betting was a back door way to increase the takeout. "Blended" takeouts are now more than 20%, which makes racing a sucker game for average players. In Vegas you don't have people lining up to play Keno.

Also, people who play exotics go home a winner less often than they did back in the days of win, place, show, although they win more when they do win. I think most people's willingness to return to the track is proportional to whether they won or lost last time they went, and more people lose now.

State lotteries, which, like exotic bets, are low percentage "big win" games are also declining.

OTB's sucked people away from the track and on track attendence reached a negative "tipping point" because it's depressing to rattle around in an empty grandstand. I was at Arlington last year a week before the Breeder's Cup and it was a sad experience - big beautiful grandstand with a few hundred people wandering around.

Part of the fun of going to the races is feeling the energy of the crowd as the horses come down the stretch, and that's lost when on-track attendance falls below a certain level.

[PaceAdvantage]

"Killed Racing?????"

"Decline in racing??????"


Huh?

Didn't I just read where total betting handle on Thoroughbred racing is rising every year??? Methinks the reports of racing's demise have been GREATLY exaggerated.....

[JustRalph]

I don't think Ward said anything new really. Except maybe the info on auctions. How about this as a problem. Too many Tracks:
Close a third of these and there are more horses to go around and more money for each of the survivors.

Try this for today, a Thursday:

Tracks
12:20PM - Saratoga(h)
12:25PM - Calder
12:25PM - Ohio 7/7
12:30PM - Aqueduct
12:30PM - Freehold(h)
12:35PM - Laurel
12:40PM - Churchill
12:55PM - Woodbine
1:30PM - Louisiana
2:10PM - Hawthorne
3:45PM - Golden Gate
4:00PM - Santa Anita
4:30PM - Dover(h)
6:10PM - Hoosier
6:40PM - Meadows(h)
7:10PM - Meadowlands
7:15PM - Charles Town
7:20PM - Lebanon(h)
7:25PM - Penn National
7:35PM - Lone Star
7:40PM - Mohawk (h)
7:40PM - Northville(h)
7:40PM - Yonkers(h)
7:45PM - Delta
7:45PM - Remington
8:00PM - Sam Houston
8:35PM - Cal Expo(h)
9:25PM - Australia
10:15PM - Los Alamitos

And for Saturday coming:

Tracks
12:15PM - Finger Lakes
12:20PM - Delaware
12:20PM - Saratoga(h)
12:25PM - Calder
12:25PM - Ohio 7/7
12:25PM - Philadelphia
12:30PM - Aqueduct
12:30PM - Freehold(h)
12:35PM - Laurel
12:40PM - Churchill
12:55PM - Woodbine
1:00PM - Plainridge(h)
1:05PM - Fort Erie
1:30PM - Louisiana
2:10PM - Hawthorne
2:25PM - Turf Paradise
3:00PM - Santa Anita
3:00PM - Sunray
3:15PM - Golden Gate
4:18PM - Hastings
5:30PM - Dover(h)
5:30PM - Portland
6:10PM - Hoosier
6:40PM - Meadows(h)
7:00PM - Colonial (h)
7:00PM - Mountaineer
7:00PM - Northfield(h)
7:00PM - Raceway(h)
7:05PM - Pompano(h)
7:10PM - Meadowlands
7:15PM - Charles Town
7:20PM - Rosecroft(h)
7:25PM - Penn National
7:35PM - Lone Star
7:40PM - Mohawk (h)
7:40PM - Northville(h)
7:40PM - Yonkers(h)
7:45PM - Delta
7:45PM - Remington
8:00PM - Sam Houston
8:30PM - Australia
8:35PM - Cal Expo(h)
9:30PM - Los Alamitos
10:00PM - Fraser(h)

[MarylandPaul@HSH]

Get rid of all those harness tracks, put those horses back behind plows where they belong, and give the juicy evening post times to the thoroughbreds.

There. Problem solved.
:cool:

MP

[kingfin66]

I have to laugh when Ward says that the Breeder's Cup has become as boring as the Super Bowl. Isn't the Super Bowl the single largest sporting event in the world in terms of how many people watch? I've never heard it referred to as "boring." The Breeder's Cup continues to grow in popularity and, in my opinion, is a fantastic sporting event that many look forward to.

Even if I don't quite agree with everything he said, Ward get points for actually having vision and not being afraid to voice his opinions.

[kenwoodallpromos]

With breeding sales being the big $, more tracks means more horses, means more profit for breeders. More and more purse $ seems to be in breed bonuses. The tracks support the connections, not the bettors!
Fast food, fast cars, fast tracks, atms, online betting on dozens of tracks meaning fast betting. Yet live racing means waiting 30 minutes to watch the horses run from 2f (22 seconds) up to 12f (less than 3 minutes). Then another 30 minute wait to see another race. It is not surprising track attendance is decreasing and there is increasing interest in 200 mph 3 hour auto racing and basketball with constant live action! You do not see people walking around wearing racing colors!!LOL!!
It is not surprising to me the 2 sports most mentioned in this group are horseracing and baseball, the 2 with the least action per 30 minutes!! Just for fun, any chess players like me out there? I do genealogy, even more slow and boring!LOL!! Maybe racing can bet on workouts between races or have dogs racing on a parrallel track between races!! Match races between races, pro wrestling or boxing between races!! Seriously!!