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View Full Version : Close Race... Jockeys and Bias will Decide


Robert Fischer
06-11-2011, 06:25 PM
Normally jockeys play minimal role... Bias - usually not unless extreme

@ 12 furlongs variables are multiplied

first the bias - It appears that forwardly placed is the place to be.
Some people were hyped up about Justin Phillip winning, but he was an overlay at 4-1 and figured a good wager on even a fair track.

A fairly significant speed bias will help forwardly placed runners today, but these horses will still be who they are.

Why Jockeys here ? - The two standout horses here are NEHRO AND ANIMAL KINGDOM. NEHRO is confused by some as a deep closer. NEHRO showed he should be more forwardly placed at a classic distance when he was forwardly placed in the Kentucky Derby. NEHRO beat SHACKLEFORD BY 12 effective lengths in the Derby, and he hit the wire going 2MPH faster.
THE ONLY WAY NEHRO LOSES TO SHACKLEFORD today is if Nakatani or NEHRO make a serious error early in the race.

ANIMAL KINGDOM has quantifiable QUALITY, while NEHRO is a great 3yo so far while having to ALLOW for ground loss... you have to give Animal Kingdom the edge there. In THE DERBY Animal Kingdom and Nehro were about exactly equal when considering ground loss - although I do think being forwardly placed was harder in the Derby than closing in the stretch - for the simple fact that so many closed pretty well from that same position.

The others = it is a significant step down but BRILLIANT SPEED is a win contender, as is RULER ON ICE. RULER ON ICE is a great price so gets included.

PRIME CUT, and STAY THIRSTY are temptations for the bottom of trifectas and supers as they may get a a forward trip.


MASTER OF HOUNDS IS A TOSS at this big UNDERLAY, but could be in the bottom exotics should he get a surprisingly FORWARD TRIP.

SHACKLEFORD CAN HANG ON FOR THE BOTTOM EXOTICS SHOULD THE BIAS BE STRONG. His only chance is if everybody disrespects him and gives him a 5 length lead on easy pace and doesn't make a run until the stretch.

--- there you go.
AK AND NEHRO BEST, NEHRO some value = their jockeys can hurt them if they start too deep and wait until too late to start actually running. BRILLIANT SPEED AND RULER ON ICE ARE THE OVERLAYS

Robert Fischer
06-11-2011, 06:56 PM
NO... I DIDN'T POST THIS AFTER THE RACE :lol:
...actually 10 min before

Normally jockeys play minimal role... Bias - usually not unless extreme

@ 12 furlongs variables are multiplied

first the bias - It appears that forwardly placed is the place to be.
Some people were hyped up about Justin Phillip winning, but he was an overlay at 4-1 and figured a good wager on even a fair track.

A fairly significant speed bias will help forwardly placed runners today, but these horses will still be who they are.

Why Jockeys here ? - The two standout horses here are NEHRO AND ANIMAL KINGDOM. NEHRO is confused by some as a deep closer. NEHRO showed he should be more forwardly placed at a classic distance when he was forwardly placed in the Kentucky Derby. NEHRO beat SHACKLEFORD BY 12 effective lengths in the Derby, and he hit the wire going 2MPH faster.
THE ONLY WAY NEHRO LOSES TO SHACKLEFORD today is if Nakatani or NEHRO make a serious error early in the race.

ANIMAL KINGDOM has quantifiable QUALITY, while NEHRO is a great 3yo so far while having to ALLOW for ground loss... you have to give Animal Kingdom the edge there. In THE DERBY Animal Kingdom and Nehro were about exactly equal when considering ground loss - although I do think being forwardly placed was harder in the Derby than closing in the stretch - for the simple fact that so many closed pretty well from that same position.

The others = it is a significant step down but BRILLIANT SPEED is a win contender, as is RULER ON ICE. RULER ON ICE is a great price so gets included.

PRIME CUT, and STAY THIRSTY are temptations for the bottom of trifectas and supers as they may get a a forward trip.


MASTER OF HOUNDS IS A TOSS at this big UNDERLAY, but could be in the bottom exotics should he get a surprisingly FORWARD TRIP.

SHACKLEFORD CAN HANG ON FOR THE BOTTOM EXOTICS SHOULD THE BIAS BE STRONG. His only chance is if everybody disrespects him and gives him a 5 length lead on easy pace and doesn't make a run until the stretch.

--- there you go.
AK AND NEHRO BEST, NEHRO some value = their jockeys can hurt them if they start too deep and wait until too late to start actually running. BRILLIANT SPEED AND RULER ON ICE ARE THE OVERLAYS

Robert Fischer
06-11-2011, 07:20 PM
Animal Kingdom was very likely 'best' once again. Closer than it seemed to a triple crown.


Have to look at Nehro's race again... looked like he may have flattened out but i messed it.

how did i not hit the superfecta :bang:

Saratoga_Mike
06-11-2011, 07:26 PM
Animal Kingdom was very likely 'best' once again. Closer than it seemed to a triple crown.


Have to look at Nehro's race again... looked like he may have flattened out but i messed it.

how did i not hit the superfecta :bang:

Even with a clean trip, I think he would have lost.

Robert Fischer
06-11-2011, 10:02 PM
Even with a clean trip, I think he would have lost.

i really have to see the race a couple times, but he had a bad bad start and still came up. JV said something to the effect that "the race was over" at the start - but always take the jockey comments with a grain of salt...

RXB
06-11-2011, 10:31 PM
Good job calling the longshots with a chance, Robert.

PaceAdvantage
06-13-2011, 12:02 AM
Robert,

What am I missing? Nehro only beat Shackleford by a neck...so much for a standout.

Yeah, I thought Shackleford was a standout...so I guess we both suck when picking standouts... :lol:

Congrats on mentioning the winner.

Robert Fischer
06-18-2011, 12:56 AM
Robert,

What am I missing? Nehro only beat Shackleford by a neck...so much for a standout.

Yeah, I thought Shackleford was a standout...so I guess we both suck when picking standouts... :lol:

Congrats on mentioning the winner.

When Shack gets his chance he is GAME... that's all you can ask of a horse.
Nehro was weird - I valued his derby based on an odd trip... now they say he wasn't sound... You know... they skipped the PREAKNESS with a good horse to aim for the BELMONT?? :confused:. That is unusual. Maybe he had issues all along.

RF- first to admit = Shackleford kicked Nehro's ass in the triple crown series. Money talks.

Hope big Shack stays sound and gives us a full campaign now :ThmbUp:

Tom
06-18-2011, 08:00 AM
Shack looks like the kind of horse we will be seeing doing good things.
When you take it to them early, you decide what kind of race it will be. When you dawdle, you take what they give you. Haskel, Travers.....could be his.

Rapid Grey
06-19-2011, 07:47 AM
When Shack gets his chance he is GAME... that's all you can ask of a horse.
Nehro was weird - I valued his derby based on an odd trip... now they say he wasn't sound... You know... they skipped the PREAKNESS with a good horse to aim for the BELMONT?? :confused:. That is unusual. Maybe he had issues all along.

RF- first to admit = Shackleford kicked Nehro's ass in the triple crown series. Money talks.

Hope big Shack stays sound and gives us a full campaign now :ThmbUp:

Pretty sure that prior to the Derby Steve Asmussen was quoted saying that he would prefer a fast track for Nehro. If that in fact is the case then the Belmont surface certainly did him no favors.

Robert Fischer
06-19-2011, 11:37 PM
Pretty sure that prior to the Derby Steve Asmussen was quoted saying that he would prefer a fast track for Nehro. If that in fact is the case then the Belmont surface certainly did him no favors.
rough Triple Crown for an honest horse who had some potential.