david flores........

[toussaud]

wow. just wow.

[Rapid Grey]

perfect example of riding not to lose instead of riding to win

[Dahoss9698]

I'm not crazy about Flores, but when he finally did ask, the horse had nothing. The winner was much the best and kicked away again.

[toussaud]

I'm not crazy about Flores, but when he finally did ask, the horse had nothing. The winner was much the best and kicked away again.
the horse had something, but the horse in front had more

he vastly under estimated it's tricky

not even mentioning she was too far back in the first placde, TD is a front runner

[Tom]

the horse had something, but the horse in front had more



That generally means he is a loser.:rolleyes:

[davefulche]

Yeah Durkin called it a handride and about the same time he did...Flores got to work and couldn't make up ground. I think Flores and Durkin both expected TD to just power by with slight urging.

[Stillriledup]

TD is ridden the same exact way every time. She's always 'under a hand ride' that's how Flores looks on a horse. David makes horses run at full speed while appearing to be under a hand ride. TD had nothing to offer, Flores rode great, she was just not good enough.

[Dahoss9698]

the horse had something, but the horse in front had more

he vastly under estimated it's tricky

not even mentioning she was too far back in the first placde, TD is a front runner

Take a look at the PP's again. She isn't a front runner.

Flores was scrubbing on her around the turn a bit. She got beat by a better horse today.

[Stillriledup]

She galloped out 'tired' also. Didnt look like she had anything left on the pullup.

[toussaud]

i don't have to see the pp's i've seen every last one of her races. she was way too far back

[Stillriledup]

i don't have to see the pp's i've seen every last one of her races. she was way too far back

She wasnt winning anyway. If she chased the pace, she might have stopped and been beaten for 2nd. Flores rode her fine, she just wasnt good enough.

[Dahoss9698]

i don't have to see the pp's i've seen every last one of her races. she was way too far back

What race has she been on the front end? You said she's a front runner. So what race has she been on the front?

Don't disappear like usual, let's see an example of her being a front runner.

[Rapid Grey]

She wasnt winning anyway. If she chased the pace, she might have stopped and been beaten for 2nd. Flores rode her fine, she just wasnt good enough.

When you are 2-5 you shouldn't worry about getting beat for 2nd.

[Casino]

What race has she been on the front end? You said she's a front runner. So what race has she been on the front?

Don't disappear like usual, let's see an example of her being a front runner.

Dahoss TD hasnt seen the lead in any of her races..til the top of the stretch.

[Stillriledup]

When you are 2-5 you shouldn't worry about getting beat for 2nd.

But the owners dont care about the betting, the purse was big, 2nd money is a nice payday.

[toussaud]

What race has she been on the front end? You said she's a front runner. So what race has she been on the front?

Don't disappear like usual, let's see an example of her being a front runner.
dude i am not going to sit here and waste my belmont Saturday arguing with you over something this stupid. sorry my Internet cred is not that damn important to me.

[Dahoss9698]

dude i am not going to sit here and waste my belmont Saturday arguing with you over something this stupid. sorry my Internet cred is not that damn important to me.

That's because there is nothing to argue. She's never been a front runner and you know it. It's not cred. Some prefer to deal in facts and go from there. Others prefer to make stuff up as they go. Different strokes for different folks.

[Relwob Owner]

dude i am not going to sit here and waste my belmont Saturday arguing with you over something this stupid. sorry my Internet cred is not that damn important to me.

What is stupid about it? You posted this horse is a front runner and he disputed it and is correct. The biggest question I have is why you post something when you dont know about it? Doing that just waters down the threads and keeps the discussions less productive and interesting than they could be.

As far as "wasting time arguing" you dont have to do that. You can take 3 seconds to look at the PP's and see you are wrong. What would probably a good idea is to just admit you are wrong and next time, if you are going to state something as fact, make sure your facts are correct.

[Tom]

Well now, the world is back in balance.

[Dahoss9698]

Well now, the world is back in balance.

Must've been another winning day, huh?

[Tom]

Glad to see you are OK, I mean after you disappeared for few days.

[Dahoss9698]

Glad to see you are OK, I mean after you disappeared for few days.

If only you would disappear for a few days. Give your poor keyboard and a break.

By the way, what exactly is it you disagree with in this thread that I have said? Or are you simply just trying to increase your post count?

[Tom]

Don't flatter yourself - I never posted anything directed at you.
Until your snipe post at me.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Don't flatter yourself - I never posted anything directed at you.

What did you mean by "the world is back in balance?" I know you and DH don't get along (understatement), but you must admit Toussad tends to make some fairly wild claims at times. When challenged, he typically doesn't respond.

[Relwob Owner]

Don't flatter yourself - I never posted anything directed at you.Until your snipe post at me.

Well, since your post was after mine, it must have been directed at me then? If so, what did your "world is back in balance" comment mean?

Toussaud posted som,ething that was incorrect so I thought my post was appropriate. Heck, he started an entire thread about Flores giving a bad ride and didnt even know where the horse was usually positioned in a race.

[toussaud]

What did you mean by "the world is back in balance?" I know you and DH don't get along (understatement), but you must admit Toussad tends to make some fairly wild claims at times. When challenged, he typically doesn't respond.
because 1. usually i'm not here and when I am, i don't get in "battles" that i see are going to take an entire day and end no where.

I put what i think out there. it's a crappy ride. From the races i have seen of TD, she likes to be on the pace or on the lead. the race where she wasn't, I want to say the Los race out in santa anita she got beat. she came backl next out in the SAnta anita oaks and was closer to the lead and won beating zuzu by a head bob.

that does not need to be expanded on, and more importantly, that does not need to be expanded on on belmont day.

[Relwob Owner]

because 1. usually i'm not here and when I am, i don't get in "battles" that i see are going to take an entire day and end no where.

I put what i think out there. it's a crappy ride. From the races i have seen of TD, she likes to be on the pace or on the lead. the race where she wasn't, I want to say the Los race out in santa anita she got beat. she came backl next out in the SAnta anita oaks and was closer to the lead and won beating zuzu by a head bob.

that does not need to be expanded on, and more importantly, that does not need to be expanded on on belmont day.


I dont think anyone was looking to get in a battle with you. An opinion is great but when it is backed up by inaccuracies, people respond and justifiably so IMO. You said "not even mentioning she was too far back in the first place, TD is a front runner"....she isnt and that was pointed out. That was never going to start a battle because it isnt even debatable. It is just incorrect and you were wrong.

[Dahoss9698]

because 1. usually i'm not here and when I am, i don't get in "battles" that i see are going to take an entire day and end no where.

I put what i think out there. it's a crappy ride. From the races i have seen of TD, she likes to be on the pace or on the lead. the race where she wasn't, I want to say the Los race out in santa anita she got beat. she came backl next out in the SAnta anita oaks and was closer to the lead and won beating zuzu by a head bob.

that does not need to be expanded on, and more importantly, that does not need to be expanded on on belmont day.

You should really look at PP's once in awhile. She was far off the pace in the Las Virgenes because they went 21 and 2 and 44 and 1 for the quarter and half. In the SA Oaks they went 23 and 1 and 46 and 3 for the quarter and half.

It doesn't take an expert in pace handicapping to realize why she was closer in the SA Oaks. However, even in the SA Oaks, she was 4th early and not on the pace or on the lead.

I should know better than to waste my own time on this stuff, especially when anyone with 2 eyes can see you are wrong.

[Tom]

Well, since your post was after mine, it must have been directed at me then? If so, what did your "world is back in balance" comment mean?

Toussaud posted som,ething that was incorrect so I thought my post was appropriate. Heck, he started an entire thread about Flores giving a bad ride and didnt even know where the horse was usually positioned in a race.

We all know how important it is that the internet be completely accurate, so I was complimenting you jumping in when you did. No telling what might have happened had that been allowed to stand. You did the world a service. I was giving a sigh of relief!

[Spalding No!]

You should really look at PP's once in awhile. She was far off the pace in the Las Virgenes because they went 21 and 2 and 44 and 1 for the quarter and half. In the SA Oaks they went 23 and 1 and 46 and 3 for the quarter and half.

It doesn't take an expert in pace handicapping to realize why she was closer in the SA Oaks. However, even in the SA Oaks, she was 4th early and not on the pace or on the lead.

I should know better than to waste my own time on this stuff, especially when anyone with 2 eyes can see you are wrong.

None of that matters.

David Flores rode Turbulent Descent poorly because he failed to position her on the synthetic part of the Belmont main track.

[Relwob Owner]

We all know how important it is that the internet be completely accurate, so I was complimenting you jumping in when you did. No telling what might have happened had that been allowed to stand. You did the world a service. I was giving a sigh of relief!


When someone starts a thread about a jockey giving a bad ride and doesnt even know where that horse is usually positioned in the race, it is annoying. Just my opinion.

In my opinion, starting threads and posting just to post, often without accurate facts, is kind of pointless and must be even more annoying to those who want to have informed discussions on here. Judging from your post count, you probably have a different point of view.

[Dahoss9698]

We all know how important it is that the internet be completely accurate, so I was complimenting you jumping in when you did. No telling what might have happened had that been allowed to stand. You did the world a service. I was giving a sigh of relief!

This is some post. No wonder the discussions end up like this.

[Saratoga_Mike]

We all know how important it is that the internet be completely accurate, so I was complimenting you jumping in when you did. No telling what might have happened had that been allowed to stand. You did the world a service. I was giving a sigh of relief!

Tom, do you now disavow what you wrote just a few days ago?

"You keep saying that, but here you are, in every thread, making an eHole of yourself arguing with people about their opinions or questions, then, when challenged, you suddenly have to run off to handicap or change the subject to get of it.You play more games than horse racing."

[Tom]

When someone starts a thread about a jockey giving a bad ride and doesnt even know where that horse is usually positioned in the race, it is annoying. Just my opinion.

In my opinion, starting threads and posting just to post, often without accurate facts, is kind of pointless and must be even more annoying to those who want to have informed discussions on here. Judging from your post count, you probably have a different point of view.

Such negativity when I was giving you kudos for your efforts. I even commented on it, sarcastically, earlier in the thread.

[Tom]

Tom, do you now disavow what you wrote just a few days ago?

"You keep saying that, but here you are, in every thread, making an eHole of yourself arguing with people about their opinions or questions, then, when challenged, you suddenly have to run off to handicap or change the subject to get of it.You play more games than horse racing."

Not sure what you are talking bout Mike. I was not addressing dahoss here other than a reply to his post to me. IS there a point in there?
Although, right after that he DID disappear for a few days.

[Dahoss9698]

Hopefully this isn't deleted like my last post.

Tom, Mike's point was you did what you accused me of. In other words, you're a hypocrite. Not like that is really news to anyone though. He asked you a question and instead of responding you changed the subject to get out of it. Then you offered up a disingenuous answer after the fact.

It's obvious what you were doing. Then you tried to turn it around on me because I responded to you in kind.

The other day you accuse me of being in every thread. Which coming from you is just funny beyond belief. Today the battle cry is I disappeared for a few days.

So which one is it?

[Tom]

Again, you flatter yourself.
Dahoss, eveything is not about you. Get over it.

[Dahoss9698]

Again, this is why conversations turn out like this. Tom can't help himself and has to involve himself in everything. He gets called out for it then runs away to off topic where he can gang up on people.

[Tom]

Still here, not running away like you did for three days.
Still not about you, either. My was to Relwob Owner. You just can't accept that. If I was going to reply to you, 9it would have been right after you and hours sooner. But I waste facts on you. Sad you are so insecure. :(

[Saratoga_Mike]

Hopefully this isn't deleted like my last post.

Tom, Mike's point was you did what you accused me of. In other words, you're a hypocrite. Not like that is really news to anyone though. He asked you a question and instead of responding you changed the subject to get out of it. Then you offered up a disingenuous answer after the fact.

It's obvious what you were doing. Then you tried to turn it around on me because I responded to you in kind.

The other day you accuse me of being in every thread. Which coming from you is just funny beyond belief. Today the battle cry is I disappeared for a few days.

So which one is it?

DH, that was my exact point. Thank you for saving me the time.

[PaceAdvantage]

When someone starts a thread about a jockey giving a bad ride and doesnt even know where that horse is usually positioned in the race, it is annoying. Just my opinion.

In my opinion, starting threads and posting just to post, often without accurate facts, is kind of pointless and must be even more annoying to those who want to have informed discussions on here.Agreed. People need to be less defensive when it is patently obvious that what they posted is wrong.

[toussaud]

I don't think i am wrong, i still think it's as much a crappy ride here today as I do yesterday.


my biggest gripe was never how far back she was, someone just pointed that out and made this into the what kinda horse is TD thread, but good race horses are tactcial,while i think she should have been more into the race earlier, that was not my biggest gripe.

it was that he thought he could pass the filly that won anytime he wanted, tried to coast by her and the filly had a ton left. I think he should have been more agressive towards the half mile on in the race and i think if he took the race to the filly he would have won instead of trying to glide by her.




I was not the only one in this thread that thought that as well.


I pose this question to you. do you honestly, and yes or no, doesn't matter, but yes or no, if Garrett Gomez is riding TD yesterday she still loses.

[Relwob Owner]

I don't think i am wrong, i still think it's as much a crappy ride here today as I do yesterday.


my biggest gripe was never how far back she was, someone just pointed that out and made this into the what kinda horse is TD thread, but good race horses are tactcial,while i think she should have been more into the race earlier, that was not my biggest gripe.

it was that he thought he could pass the filly that won anytime he wanted, tried to coast by her and the filly had a ton left. I think he should have been more agressive towards the half mile on in the race and i think if he took the race to the filly he would have won instead of trying to glide by her.



I was not the only one in this thread that thought that as well.


I pose this question to you. do you honestly, and yes or no, doesn't matter, but yes or no, if Garrett Gomez is riding TD yesterday she still loses.


Re-read the thread. Your point about the ride was debatable and could be correct. I find Flores to be a pretty poor rider overall and am always up for a debate of one of his rides

What many say you were wrong about, including me, was your assertion in post 4 that she is a front runner. That isnt debatable. It is 100 percent incorrect and the fact that you use that as the basis for your assertion that it was a bad ride makes your argument extremely questionable.

To answer your question-if Gomez is riding, I think the horse still loses. The horse on the lead had another gear IMO and wasnt going to be caught no matter who was on the horse.

[toussaud]

Re-read the thread. Your point about the ride was debatable and could be correct. I find Flores to be a pretty poor rider overall and am always up for a debate of one of his rides

What many say you were wrong about, including me, was your assertion in post 4 that she is a front runner. That isnt debatable. It is 100 percent incorrect and the fact that you use that as the basis for your assertion that it was a bad ride makes your argument extremely questionable.

To answer your question-if Gomez is riding, I think the horse still loses. The horse on the lead had another gear IMO and wasnt going to be caught no matter who was on the horse.
see this is what i don't like about the intenret, and it's probably my fault.

bad choice of words. i did not realize this has gone 4 pages almost on a bad choice of words


better phrased, she's usually more into the race, than she was. yes i said front runner, and if you want to say i am back tracking go go ahead. I simply was trying to imply he left her with doing more than she wanted to do

[Relwob Owner]

see this is what i don't like about the intenret, and it's probably my fault.

bad choice of words. i did not realize this has gone 4 pages almost on a bad choice of words


better phrased, she's usually more into the race, than she was. yes i said front runner, and if you want to say i am back tracking go go ahead. I simply was trying to imply he left her with doing more than she wanted to do


I dont think you are back tracking. I think you are just clarifying what you meant,which makes sense.

[PaceAdvantage]

see this is what i don't like about the intenret, and it's probably my fault.

bad choice of words. i did not realize this has gone 4 pages almost on a bad choice of words


better phrased, she's usually more into the race, than she was. yes i said front runner, and if you want to say i am back tracking go go ahead. I simply was trying to imply he left her with doing more than she wanted to doHoly Shit it could have saved us a boatload of time if you had done this so much earlier.

Sometimes I think you guys are just ****ing with me and this board on purpose... :lol:

[Stillriledup]

One year suspension in Singapore for stiffing a horse.

He should come back to the States, they let you stiff here with no repercussions.

[JustRalph]

One year suspension in Singapore for stiffing a horse.

He should come back to the States, they let you stiff here with no repercussions.

You know, when he originally left California and his % fell so much I spoke with some random dude at Keeneland that said Flores had figured out he can make more money stiffing horses on the east coast, than he can winning on the west coast. I thought the guy was a crazy drunk.......Scratching my head now....

[SG4]

Just watched a video of this race (link below), and it's absolutely shocking that this led to the penalty handed down. This wouldn't have even raised an eyebrow here. Maybe not the most energetic of rides, but at least he broke out the stick a few times.

http://www.turfclub.com.sg/MediaCenter/VideoGallery/Pages/RaceVideos.aspx?url=http://videos.turfclub.com.sg/Races//201520150222SR01.mp4&MeetingDate=22/2/2015%2012:00:00%20AM&Year=2015&RaceNumber=1&title=20150222SR01&RaceType=RaceVideos&index=0&Previewurl=http://www.turfclub.com.sg//MediaCenter/VideoGallery/Race%20Videos/2015/20150222SR01.jpg&AutoPlay=false#.VROQ6uGPtMs

[stringmail]

Just watched a video of this race (link below), and it's absolutely shocking that this led to the penalty handed down. This wouldn't have even raised an eyebrow here. Maybe not the most energetic of rides, but at least he broke out the stick a few times.

http://www.turfclub.com.sg/MediaCenter/VideoGallery/Pages/RaceVideos.aspx?url=http://videos.turfclub.com.sg/Races//201520150222SR01.mp4&MeetingDate=22/2/2015%2012:00:00%20AM&Year=2015&RaceNumber=1&title=20150222SR01&RaceType=RaceVideos&index=0&Previewurl=http://www.turfclub.com.sg//MediaCenter/VideoGallery/Race%20Videos/2015/20150222SR01.jpg&AutoPlay=false#.VROQ6uGPtMs

If I didn't know any better, I'd think that was KD with a pick up mount. :p

Flores certainly wasn't urging his horse any but I am guessing he wasn't wild about being somewhat pinned on the inside. He'll have plenty of time to think about working out a better trip next time.

[Stillriledup]

Just watched a video of this race (link below), and it's absolutely shocking that this led to the penalty handed down. This wouldn't have even raised an eyebrow here. Maybe not the most energetic of rides, but at least he broke out the stick a few times.

http://www.turfclub.com.sg/MediaCenter/VideoGallery/Pages/RaceVideos.aspx?url=http://videos.turfclub.com.sg/Races//201520150222SR01.mp4&MeetingDate=22/2/2015%2012:00:00%20AM&Year=2015&RaceNumber=1&title=20150222SR01&RaceType=RaceVideos&index=0&Previewurl=http://www.turfclub.com.sg//MediaCenter/VideoGallery/Race%20Videos/2015/20150222SR01.jpg&AutoPlay=false#.VROQ6uGPtMs

Pretend you needed the 1 horse to get 3rd in the 5th race at Golden Gate on March 19th. This doesn't raise an eyebrow either.

[Fingal]

Saw an update to the story on the Ray Paulick web site.
http://www.paulickreport.com/news/people/flores-gets-one-year-ban-from-singapore-stewards/

It is possible Flores could ride in the United States during his suspension in Singapore, according to Mike Marten, spokesman for the California Horse Racing Board. In response to an email from the Paulick Report, Marten wrote: “The CHRB and (Association of Racing Commissioners International) do not have reciprocity agreements with international racing jurisdictions and, as far as we know, the CHRB never has been asked to reciprocate with a foreign ruling, so the most we could say right now is that if David Flores attempts to ride in California, the matter will be reviewed at that time. There is no question that he is entitled to due process.”