Claiming horses - Advice

[Track Phantom]

Hello all....

Thought I would try and get some advice from the good group of knowledgable horse people on this forum.

I'm interested in buying (claiming) a couple of horses this summer. I live in Austin, TX but my home is Minnesota and I'm forming a small partnership with a couple of friends in MN so we might claim there. Problem is, the horses there are not top notch and we'd have to get really lucky to find anything of value. Here are my questions:

What's the best way to plug into a reliable trainer out there?
Thinking of between 20k to 25k investment including trainers fees. Is this a reasonable amount or not?
What if I look at claiming from another track. How could I get it, ship it, etc? What is the cost?
If anyone can share some thoughts I would greatly appreciate it. I know there will be a fair share of poisonous arrows etc but am really looking for the responses from those that know and care to share.

[Lasix67]

Hello all....

Thought I would try and get some advice from the good group of knowledgable horse people on this forum.

I'm interested in buying (claiming) a couple of horses this summer. I live in Austin, TX but my home is Minnesota and I'm forming a small partnership with a couple of friends in MN so we might claim there. Problem is, the horses there are not top notch and we'd have to get really lucky to find anything of value. Here are my questions:

What's the best way to plug into a reliable trainer out there?
Thinking of between 20k to 25k investment including trainers fees. Is this a reasonable amount or not?
What if I look at claiming from another track. How could I get it, ship it, etc? What is the cost?
If anyone can share some thoughts I would greatly appreciate it. I know there will be a fair share of poisonous arrows etc but am really looking for the responses from those that know and care to share.

Since you live in Texas why don't you look at claiming Texas or maybe even Louisiana breds. Both states have great state programs and run for good purses to start with. Shipping from Texas or Louisiana to Minnesota may be outside of your budget though.

[lamboguy]

i found a real good guy at aqueduct. feel free to contact me and i will recomend him to you.

[judd]

knew a guy that went into claiming harness horses at the meadows----he nowworks for the post office delivering mail :rolleyes:

[tbwinner]

If you're set on claiming in Minnesota and at Canterbury I have someone you can contact to get a trainer recommendation. PM me for info.

Keep in mind Minnesota doesn't race year-round so keep in mind about having a plan for the horse (shipping).

[njcurveball]

You need to start with a bottom claimer. Every track has their share of name trainers at that level. Chances are you will learn a lot and lose money. But it is better to lose on a 4k investment then put the 20k up and watch a horse get injured in their first start.

You might develop a good relationship with that trainer, but even if you don't, being on the backside among the horsemen will point you in the right direction.

A lot of trainers are very good at getting new clients and then very good at making excuses. Other trainers don't talk much, but they treat their horses quite well.

Bottom line is that you want to get in as cheaply as possible first time. When you know the "players" then you will know better who to trust with your money.

Jim

[Robert Goren]

Take the 25k and put a match to it. That way the suffering will be over quickly and you can move on.

[lamboguy]

You need to start with a bottom claimer. Every track has their share of name trainers at that level. Chances are you will learn a lot and lose money. But it is better to lose on a 4k investment then put the 20k up and watch a horse get injured in their first start.

You might develop a good relationship with that trainer, but even if you don't, being on the backside among the horsemen will point you in the right direction.

A lot of trainers are very good at getting new clients and then very good at making excuses. Other trainers don't talk much, but they treat their horses quite well.

Bottom line is that you want to get in as cheaply as possible first time. When you know the "players" then you will know better who to trust with your money.

Jimi know that feeling we had a nice horse that is entered today in a stake race in belmont and he is scratched because he got injured.
he was going to be the favorite to the race too!

[onefast99]

Take the 25k and put a match to it. That way the suffering will be over quickly and you can move on.
This forum offers no extra points for those who want to draw attention to themselves and offer zero advice.

[forced89]

You need to start with a bottom claimer. Every track has their share of name trainers at that level. Chances are you will learn a lot and lose money.

Disagree with starting on the bottom. IMO you are better off starting 50% to 75% above the bottom. If you don't like the horse, you can always drop him to the bottom, maybe win a race or two and possibly lose him. I think you will lose less money this way. Heck, you might even make a profit. If you make a mistake on the bottom, you have very few outs.

[BIG49010]

Take the 25k and put a match to it. That way the suffering will be over quickly and you can move on.

This forum offers no extra points for those who want to draw attention to themselves and offer zero advice.

He isn't far off, the costs today make it almost impossible to make a profit.

I would suggest that you research and follow the absolute best "claiming trainers on your circuit" then sit down and have a talk with them.

[startngate]

You'll have a lot more fun starting out by owning where you live so it's easy to go see your horse run. Might want to check the Canterbury trainer's list and see if any of them also ship south to Sam Houston for the winter.

Stay away from claiming any MN breds. They are for all practical purposes not competitive outside the State. The breed money is good up there, but your horses will mostly do nothing but cost you money outside that meet.

If you intend to race in the short term at CBY, then the only other tracks you should look at claiming from are Arlington and Prairie Meadows. With your budget, you will be claiming lower-level horses and shipping them from any further away will eat up too much of the budget. Horses regularly ship from those two tracks, so getting a ride is easier/cheaper. Don't forget to look at the 'in jail' rules of each State. You may be stuck for a period of time.

There are good horses to be claimed at CBY. Especially turf horses. Just have to be careful and pick your spots (as anywhere).

[onefast99]

Take the 25k and put a match to it. That way the suffering will be over quickly and you can move on.



He isn't far off, the costs today make it almost impossible to make a profit.

I would suggest that you research and follow the absolute best "claiming trainers on your circuit" then sit down and have a talk with them.
The thread is about giving some advice, he didn't ask about the probability of making a profit. For all we know they could have hit the mega millions and are looking for a place to spend some of that extra income. Trainers will work with new clients and there is a possibility that the trainer could be an equity partner in the deal thus reducuing some of the capital outlay by their group. "Success is a welcomed gift for the uninhibited mind"

[JustRalph]

Buy a small plane and learn to fly. Probably about the same price, and a hell of a lot of fun. Prices are very low right now

[Gallop58]

Buy a book called "Make Money with Horses" by Don Blazer.

http://www.donblazer.com/books/makemoney.html

Follow his advice on claiming.

Can't go too far wrong if you stick with the rules.

(In a nutshell it's, buy in at about the 4th claiming level, claim one that's competitive at that level. Only go up if you win, drop levels if you don't win. Don't be afraid to lose the horse.) You will likely not get rich, but you most likely won't lose everything and you'll have fun. Knowing the 4th level claiming range gets trickier when you start shipping around.

Buying in at the lowest level gives you no ability to drop and you end up with a lawn ornament.


Buy the book.

Good Racing,

[Bettowin]

Mike Biehler runs at Canterbury in the summer and then ships some horses to Remington when the Canterbury meet is over. Might even look at claiming something out of Prairie Meadows since their purses are higher and the horses should be better. I am pretty sure Lynn Chleborad (spelling not correct but close) also runs at Canterbury, Remington and Oaklawn. Might not be a bad idea to claim something at the end of Oaklawn's meet and then go to Prairie Meadows then Canterbury if you are set on running at Canterbury.

Just ideas. I have never done it:)

[Producer]

Buy a small plane and learn to fly. Probably about the same price, and a hell of a lot of fun. Prices are very low right now


What a bizarre response to a simple question! Guy asks about claiming a horse and you tell him to buy a plane and learn to fly....lol. :D

[Track Phantom]

What a bizarre response to a simple question! Guy asks about claiming a horse and you tell him to buy a plane and learn to fly....lol. :D

Great feedback from a lot of people. I really appreciate it.

[njstu44]

I have a claiming stable and would be happy to match your 25K and buy 2-3 horses...I'm one of the best sheet readers out there and have had a lot of success...Last year I won 5 races out of 19 starts.....Contact me if you wish
Stu

[JustRalph]

What a bizarre response to a simple question! Guy asks about claiming a horse and you tell him to buy a plane and learn to fly....lol. :D

just giving him another option for a ton of cash.......... :lol:

[billyball]

see if you can talk jamie ness into coming back---

[turninforhome10]

I did really well with buying privately 2 yo's in the fall meet at Churchill. If the horses are not going to be top notch in KY, they can sometimes be superstars at smaller meets. Look for 2 yo races that produce next out winners. We bought privately one year and the race the horse came out of produced 8 winners within their next three starts. We won 8 out of 11 races the next year with the horse and made close to 100 k. Why claim when you can buy and depreciate their expense? Nice horses can be bought ready to run and if you deal with an owner/trainer it is all the easier.
The game is about conditions, let me repeat the game is about conditions

[onefast99]

I did really well with buying privately 2 yo's in the fall meet at Churchill. If the horses are not going to be top notch in KY, they can sometimes be superstars at smaller meets. Look for 2 yo races that produce next out winners. We bought privately one year and the race the horse came out of produced 8 winners within their next three starts. We won 8 out of 11 races the next year with the horse and made close to 100 k. Why claim when you can buy and depreciate their expense? Nice horses can be bought ready to run and if you deal with an owner/trainer it is all the easier.
The game is about conditions, let me repeat the game is about conditions
How did the other 2yo purchases do as compared to the one you hit a home run with?

[Saratoga_Mike]

I did really well with buying privately 2 yo's in the fall meet at Churchill. If the horses are not going to be top notch in KY, they can sometimes be superstars at smaller meets. Look for 2 yo races that produce next out winners. We bought privately one year and the race the horse came out of produced 8 winners within their next three starts. We won 8 out of 11 races the next year with the horse and made close to 100 k. Why claim when you can buy and depreciate their expense? Nice horses can be bought ready to run and if you deal with an owner/trainer it is all the easier.
The game is about conditions, let me repeat the game is about conditions

The game is not about conditions. The game is about winning. And the chances of winning are much higher with an older claimer with no conditions left than a young horse. The best way to lose money is buying a young horse. I don't doubt your success, but it's an anamoly. The chances of success, while still slim, are much higher in the claiming game than buying young, inexperienced stock.

[turninforhome10]

You say the game is about winning. Lets say you have two identical type horses older claimers, multiple winners. Do you want the one that is eligible for Nw1y or the horse that just won two in a row and has no conditions and just might have lost his best friend with the N2y. I can't even comprehend claiming a horse without lifetime conditions left. For a Pa Bred right now even a cheap one can run out 30-40k with just the cheapest lifetime conditions. You must have one hell of a trainer who can keep all the horses going. How do win you win races, run all the horses wide open. What you say is great but to me is fantasy. A good 15n2l has many options. Starters, N1x, n3l, or drop for the win.
I made 60k on a horse I gave 800 in back boarding bills and he only won his 3 lifetime conditions. three races in 12 months and gave him away as a jumper.Would you trade 800 for 60k? Since I was training him, his bills were cheap.
As far as the other 2 yos it is hit or miss, but we have always broke their maidens and came out ok.If they have even a little pedigree, getting them claimed a smaller track was pretty good.

[onefast99]

You say the game is about winning. Lets say you have two identical type horses older claimers, multiple winners. Do you want the one that is eligible for Nw1y or the horse that just won two in a row and has no conditions and just might have lost his best friend with the N2y. I can't even comprehend claiming a horse without lifetime conditions left. For a Pa Bred right now even a cheap one can run out 30-40k with just the cheapest lifetime conditions. You must have one hell of a trainer who can keep all the horses going. How do win you win races, run all the horses wide open. What you say is great but to me is fantasy. A good 15n2l has many options. Starters, N1x, n3l, or drop for the win.
I made 60k on a horse I gave 800 in back boarding bills and he only won 3 three race in 12 months and gave him away as a jumper.
As far as the other 2 yos it is hit or miss, but we have always broke their maidens and came out ok.If they have even a little pedigree, getting them claimed a smaller track was pretty good.\
Maiden claimers or msw's? If they are Pa breds and you run them in Pa you will make your money back on the babies. You also have to take into account that not all tracks run a nw 1 in a year or nw1 in 6 months or the conditions that are money makers if you have one that meets that condition. I peronally have switched over to Pa breds with 4 mares in foal and 2 babies headed to Parx within the next 3 months for the msw's, that extra 40% is huge as a registered Pa bred!

[turninforhome10]

\
Maiden claimers or msw's? If they are Pa breds and you run them in Pa you will make your money back on the babies. You also have to take into account that not all tracks run a nw 1 in a year or nw1 in 6 months or the conditions that are money makers if you have one that meets that condition. I peronally have switched over to Pa breds with 4 mares in foal and 2 babies headed to Parx within the next 3 months for the msw's, that extra 40% is huge as a registered Pa bred!
I feel that MSW or maiden claiming in PA is much different. The purses are so good, that while you don't want to lose your horse in the claim box, you can run them where they belong and still come out on them. If you are the breeder, how can you go wrong getting checks, if someone takes them and does well while you still have the mare in foal and one on the ground.I live ten minutes for Penn National and while it used to be a dumping ground for the east coasts worst, it is a very tough track for older claimers, with n1y type races always available. Good for you on the move to PA. We enjoyed the spoils of the state bred program in IA when it first started and having a barn full of cheap maidens took us to over 400k in purses for the meet in 2002 and 2003. That includes the breeders checks when we broke their maidens and got them claimed.
If you are not looking a t conditions then you are missing 3/4 of the angle of making money. And old quarterhorse trainer once told me "turn em and burn em", get them money while it is good.

[Saratoga_Mike]

You say the game is about winning. Lets say you have two identical type horses older claimers, multiple winners. Do you want the one that is eligible for Nw1y or the horse that just won two in a row and has no conditions and just might have lost his best friend with the N2y. 1) I can't even comprehend claiming a horse without lifetime conditions left. For a Pa Bred right now even a cheap one can run out 30-40k with just the cheapest lifetime conditions. 2)You must have one hell of a trainer who can keep all the horses going. 3) How do win you win races, run all the horses wide open. What you say is great but to me is fantasy. A good 15n2l has many options. Starters, N1x, n3l, or drop for the win.
I made 60k on a horse I gave 800 in back boarding bills and he only won his 3 lifetime conditions. three races in 12 months and gave him away as a jumper.Would you trade 800 for 60k? Since I was training him, his bills were cheap.
As far as the other 2 yos it is hit or miss, but we have always broke their maidens and came out ok.If they have even a little pedigree, getting them claimed a smaller track was pretty good.

1) They race all the time. If you claim an open claimer (horse with no conditions), they presumably can win an open claimer, correct?

2) I don't follow this point. One is much more likely to have problems with babies than with a 5 or 6-yr-old claimer who has been racing consistently.

3) Goes back to point 1 - if you claim an open claimer, they should be able to win an open claiming race.

I'm not doubting your success for a minute. It's just that your experience has been an anamoly, imo. The best way to lose money is buying young unproven horses. Granted, it can also be the most exciting when things work out.

[turninforhome10]

1) They race all the time. If you claim an open claimer (horse with no conditions), they presumably can win an open claimer, correct?

2) I don't follow this point. One is much more likely to have problems with babies than with a 5 or 6-yr-old claimer who has been racing consistently.

3) Goes back to point 1 - if you claim an open claimer, they should be able to win an open claiming race.

I'm not doubting your success for a minute. It's just that your experience has been an anamoly, imo. The best way to lose money is buying young unproven horses. Granted, it can also be the most exciting when things work out.


Hey Mike,
I did not want to come across as assh888, but I was waiting to find a classic example of proper condition use and why I stress conditions.
The pps are free at whobet and take at look at Mondays card at Penn National and look at the 5th race.

Specifically #3 Forever Tango
Who made the smartest claim in her career?
At what condition would she have enticed you to drop a slip?

[davew]

for low level claimers, purchase price is small compared to upkeep

- you should do a budget and get probable/possible costs from others that have done it