How Do You Treat Scratched Horses?

[Pell Mell]

The usual reasons listed for scratches are; stewards, trainer and vet.

What do you do with these horses when next entered? The first 2 on the list I can understand playing next time if you like the horse and it's placement. But how about vet scratches? I have seen a lot of vet scratches be away for months and I have seen them running the next day. What could prompt a vet to scratch a horse and then it's entered again within the next couple days?:confused:

[InsideTheRaces.com]

Most vet scratches are BS
Most vet scratches before post time are the trainers telling their vet to scratch the horse for them. Most post time vet scratches are jockeys not wanting to ride the horse and telling the state vet something is wrong with the horse.
For the horse to run again they just have to work the horse in front of the state vet and complete the workout in the minimum time for the distance worked for that track.

Notice I said most of the time.

[pondman]

It's not all BS. The track vet is a State employee and rarely will take crap off anyone. Their responsibility is very well regulated and spelled out. They don't work for trainers. It's a serious thing in most States (that have stronger racing commissions) and this collusion you describe would be a serious crime. Many states have a team of investigators at each track and what you describe couldn't happen.

Horses will get scratched against the will of the trainer for lack of soundness. Probably happens more frequently on the the high end, due to pressure of other trainers not wanting the horse in the race. If a horse shows signs of lameness, it could potentially be red tagged and ruled off the track entirely and isn't allowed to work.

Jockeys are required to alert the vet if they suspect lameness. They could get suspended, lose their license, or go to jail if they don't.

[sonnyp]

It's not all BS. The track vet is a State employee and rarely will take crap off anyone. Their responsibility is very well regulated and spelled out. They don't work for trainers. It's a serious thing in most States (that have stronger racing commissions) and this collusion you describe would be a serious crime. Many states have a team of investigators at each track and what you describe couldn't happen.

Horses will get scratched against the will of the trainer for lack of soundness. Probably happens more frequently on the the high end, due to pressure of other trainers not wanting the horse in the race. If a horse shows signs of lameness, it could potentially be red tagged and ruled off the track entirely and isn't allowed to work.

Jockeys are required to alert the vet if they suspect lameness. They could get suspended, lose their license, or go to jail if they don't.



i see you're from california. certainly, you're not referring to tracks in that state. you have seen the cripples that get to the post there, especially at los al, and the fairs ?

[InsideTheRaces.com]

Pondman
First off in most States the on track state Vets are paid by the state but the tracks reimburse the state for the state vets salary. So who really employs them?

I never said the trainer tells the state vet to scratch the horse. The trainer gets the vet scratch from their own vet. Think of it more like a doctors note as to why the horse can't race.

The on track scratches are from the state vet. Most of the time the horse is scratched not because the state vet noticed something but because the jockey has said something to the state vet. The State vet has no choice at that point but to scratch the horse. Again most of the time the jockey just doesn't want to ride the horse for whatever reason.

The purpose of getting your vet to scratch the horse is your horse can be entered again in a short period of time you just work the horse for the state vet.
If you flat out just scratch no reason you can't enter the horse in any race for x amount of days.

I've had jockeys tell the state vet the horse is off at the gate and the vet scratches the horse but 12 hours later I'm working that horse in front of the same state vet with another jockey.

Below is what happens at the track
These trainers are in collusion.
Horses have dates where they have a priority over others when being entered based on when they last ran. So a horse who hasn't run in 45 days has a better date than one who ran 3 weeks ago.
Trainer #A has a horse who is ready to run and is competitive
Trainer #A is friends with Trainer #B and Trainer #C who have horses with better start dates but these horses aren't ready to run they might even be on the farm.
A race comes up and the racing secretary is looking for horses to make the race go. Trainer #A enters his horse and gets Trainer #B and #C to enter their horses. Trainer #B and #C and no intention of running their horses.
The overnight comes out and there is 8 horses entered. Trainer #B and #C scratch their horses before scratch time. Other trainers look at the race and if the race comes up tough then they scratch . Now you have your 5 horse field. Now trainer #A is also friends with a Jockey riding one of the other horses in the race. Guess what that horse scratches at the gate.

Is all this a coincidence? The short fields at certain track are not about the horse population it's about trainers making purse money.

Think about it maybe this has more to do with being a super trainer than anything else

Hello

[Pell Mell]

The reason I asked the original question was that Callmemrgeorge was entered in R7 @ PRM on 5/23 and was a late scratch which was listed as a vet scratched. He was entered the next day in R2 with the same jock., in the same class and dist. Finished up the track.

[BlueShoe]

In my capping a vet scratch is an automatic elimination the next time it is entered. Yes I know, some of them do win next out, but almost all of them do lose. This would be an interesting research project. Would expect these types to be terrible wagers with a huge negative ROI.

[Robert Goren]

In my capping a vet scratch is an automatic elimination the next time it is entered. Yes I know, some of them do win next out, but almost all of them do lose. This would be an interesting research project. Would expect these types to be terrible wagers with a huge negative ROI.Ditto. They are the closest thing to dead money that you find.

[Robert Fischer]

after a scratch or layoff

my upgrades = I pass the race
my downgrades = I bet against price willing

[Saratoga_Mike]

Ditto. They are the closest thing to dead money that you find.

Do you have stats on this? I find it surprising given most vet scr's are BS, as attheraces already outlined.

[Robert Goren]

Do you have stats on this? I find it surprising given most vet scr's are BS, as attheraces already outlined.No, I don't have a data base on anything. Just years of experence trying of cash a ticket. I haven't seen many win. Bet them if you like, it is your money. Maybe someone does have database on them and will post it.

[Saratoga_Mike]

No, I don't have a data base on anything. Just years of experence trying of cash a ticket. I haven't seen many win. Bet them if you like, it is your money. Maybe someone does have database on them and will post it.

yes, I'd love to see this too.

[davew]

what is a steward scratch? a horse declared a non-starter if gate failed to open or horses were off before entering gate?



Are you asking about early scratches or late scratches?



What kind of scratches are they when a turf horse passes on the mud - trainer?


Does it say somewhere all horses scratched and reason?


flipping over in starting gate probably worse than losing jockey in warm-up and runnung a lap and a half

[Valuist]

I think one has to take into account how soon the horse is entered after the scratch. If its within a few days, you have to wonder if the connections felt the latter race would be a better spot. I also view it as a positive if they scratch out of the lower valued race to enter into a tougher spot.

Once it is over two weeks or so, I would view it as a strong negative. And definitely want to see a workout or two, preferably longer than 3 furlongs, after any vet scratch.

Dave W- the DRF lists the reasons for scratches.

[sonnyp]

what is a steward scratch? a horse declared a non-starter if gate failed to open or horses were off before entering gate?



Are you asking about early scratches or late scratches?



What kind of scratches are they when a turf horse passes on the mud - trainer?


Does it say somewhere all horses scratched and reason?


flipping over in starting gate probably worse than losing jockey in warm-up and runnung a lap and a half




steward scratches usually involve paperwork related to thhe entry. owners not gettig licensed, horse not fitting the race condition etc. etc

[Mineshaft]

The reason I asked the original question was that Callmemrgeorge was entered in R7 @ PRM on 5/23 and was a late scratch which was listed as a vet scratched. He was entered the next day in R2 with the same jock., in the same class and dist. Finished up the track.





The stewards or racing secretary probably asked the trainer if he would like to run his horse in another race and told the trainer we will let you scratch out of this race if you want to run in this race.

[Mineshaft]

Vet scratches can be any kind.

1-Pre race vet scratch where the horse is lame and doesnt pass the pre race vet exam


2-Horse has a fever, colic, casts in stall. He calls his own vet not the track vet and gets him to turn in a scratch card. This way the horse does not have to work in front of the state vet.


3-Horse is lame in the post parade it is scratched by the state vet and needs to work in front of state vet.


4-Races come up tough, trainers get there vet to scratch. Trainer doesnt feel like running the horse or shipping the horse to run he gets the vet to scratch the horse.

[sonnyp]

the rules used to be, and i think they still are, a horse can be cross entered at different tracks within a certain time frame, if one of the races is a stake since this would allow the trainer to scratch at his discretion.

it used to be against the rules to cross enter a horse at different tracks in 2 overnight events..

1 trainer, don't remember names, entered his horse at philly park for an afternoon race and penn nat. for an evening card assuming he could get out of 1 of the spots.

no deal. neither set of stewards would let him out and i believe he was fined for cross entering. his horse won the philly race that afternoon and he loaded her up and shipped to penn for the night card to avoid another fine for an unauthorized scratch. she won that race also.