Mullins to Fight 70-Day Ban to 'Bitter End'

[andymays]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/63099/mullins-to-fight-70-day-ban-to-bitter-end

Exerpt:

Frank Moore, chief of the CHRB's investigation unit from November 2000 until his retirement in February 2007, supports Mullins' contention that he was being pursued by Fermin.

"The truth is we were targeting Jeff Mullins; he was one of several trainers," Moore said. "We were concentrating on him. We had his barn under surveillance. We stationed investigators there."

Barn searches, he said, were routine and the horses of certain trainers, including Mullins, were subject to out-of-competition testing for blood doping.

[andymays]

Things are not always what they seem. If the allegations are true, and I think they are then Mullins and some other Trainers are going to get some bucks when this is all done.
================================================== =

CHRB Whistle Blower Sues Agency

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/62861/chrb-whistle-blower-sues-agency

Excerpt:

He claimed, in an interview, that he has the documentation to prove that Fermin and Shapiro misused the testing system for Total Carbon Dioxide (TCO2), known as "green sheets," to target individual trainers for prosecution. They also used insider information to warn favored trainers of upcoming tests for particular medications, he charged, and circumvented state hiring practices to employ trainer Darrell Vienna as a board consultant and Dr. Rick Arthur as the CHRB's equine medical director.

[Stillriledup]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/63099/mullins-to-fight-70-day-ban-to-bitter-end

Exerpt:

Frank Moore, chief of the CHRB's investigation unit from November 2000 until his retirement in February 2007, supports Mullins' contention that he was being pursued by Fermin.

"The truth is we were targeting Jeff Mullins; he was one of several trainers," Moore said. "We were concentrating on him. We had his barn under surveillance. We stationed investigators there."

Barn searches, he said, were routine and the horses of certain trainers, including Mullins, were subject to out-of-competition testing for blood doping.

But if Mullins didnt cheat, he wouldnt have had anything to worry about, right? Its not like they planted evidence.

[andymays]

But if Mullins didnt cheat, he wouldnt have had anything to worry about, right? Its not like they planted evidence.

In my opinion the majority of the Trainers at the time would have had the same positives but the favored Trainers were ignored or warned of pending testing.

Horseplayers need to get this because the real bad guys are some of the people that run racing.

They love to grandstand on this issue because the public eats it up. If this goes to trial and the other targeted Trainers join in then the public will hear some mind blowing testimony.

I'm not saying that Mullins is an angel but the process in California has always been cooked to favor certain people in all areas.

[Stillriledup]

In my opinion the majority of the Trainers at the time would have had the same positives but the favored Trainers were ignored or warned of pending testing.

Horseplayers need to get this because the real bad guys are some of the people that run racing.

They love to grandstand on this issue because the public eats it up. If this goes to trial and the other targeted Trainers join in then the public will hear some mind blowing testimony.

I'm not saying that Mullins is an angel but the process in California has always been cooked to favor certain people in all areas.

Lets hope it goes to trial and all the dirty laundry gets aired.

[andymays]

Lets hope it goes to trial and all the dirty laundry gets aired.

Absolutely.

[Relwob Owner]

In my opinion the majority of the Trainers at the time would have had the same positives but the favored Trainers were ignored or warned of pending testing.Horseplayers need to get this because the real bad guys are some of the people that run racing.

They love to grandstand on this issue because the public eats it up. If this goes to trial and the other targeted Trainers join in then the public will hear some mind blowing testimony.




I'm not saying that Mullins is an angel but the process in California has always been cooked to favor certain people in all areas.



Even if this is true, it doesnt give Mullins a reason to complain at all. It is like having 10 criminals stealing things and having the two who got caught saying they shouldnt get punished because the others werent so closely scrutinized.....like SRU said, if he didnt cheat, he would have nothing to worry about

[JohnGalt1]

I read a quote from a highway patrolman.

After pulling a driver over for speeding, the driver asked, "How come you pulled me over? Everybody is speeding."

The trooper said, "Do you fish?"

"Yeah."

"Do you catch every fish in the lake?"

[andymays]

Even if this is true, it doesnt give Mullins a reason to complain at all. It is like having 10 criminals stealing things and having the two who got caught saying they shouldnt get punished because the others werent so closely scrutinized.....like SRU said, if he didnt cheat, he would have nothing to worry about

If this is true he will win several million dollars in court. If the allegations are true regarding the targeting of certain trainers then how do we know they didn't falsify the testing to get rid of him?

This is going to be a big deal when it's all said and done.

[andymays]

I read a quote from a highway patrolman.

After pulling a driver over for speeding, the driver asked, "How come you pulled me over? Everybody is speeding."

The trooper said, "Do you fish?"

"Yeah."

"Do you catch every fish in the lake?"

What happens to all the cases that a corrupt cop has been involved in?

[Relwob Owner]

If this is true he will win several million dollars in court. If the allegations are true regarding the targeting of certain trainers then how do we know they didn't falsify the testing to get rid of him?

This is going to be a big deal when it's all said and done.

Why would he win several million dollars? Because he was targeted and caught? Do you have any sort of legal precedence supporting your prediction?

It would seem simple for the powers that be out there to claim that they dont have the time or man power to catch every person doing something wrong and that they have to consolidate their efforts the way they did with JM.........plus, if there was some sort of personal bias found to be, that person could simply say he/she didnt like cheaters, no?

[andymays]

Why would he win several million dollars? Because he was targeted and caught? Do you have any sort of legal precedence supporting your prediction?

It would seem simple for the powers that be out there to claim that they dont have the time or man power to catch every person doing something wrong and that they have to consolidate their efforts the way they did with JM.........plus, if there was some sort of personal bias found to be, that person could simply say he/she didnt like cheaters, no?

How do you know they didn't tamper with the samples? The process for testing was not fair so why should we believe that everything else was on the up and up?

I don't understand why you're not outraged at the Racing Officials involved and the CHRB.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

This is kind of like the Italian Mafia complaining that they should get off on the basis that they were targeted but the Russian Mafia wasn't.

[andymays]

This is kind of like the Italian Mafia complaining that they should get off on the basis that they were targeted but the Russian Mafia wasn't.

I totally get that everyone hates Mullins but the stuff that went on in California Racing was inexcusable. The courts will decide this one and the CHRB will most likely be getting out the checkbook.

[Relwob Owner]

How do you know they didn't tamper with the samples? The process for testing was not fair so why should we believe that everything else was on the up and up?

I don't understand why you're not outraged at the Racing Officials involved and the CHRB.


How do you know they did? Because of a disgruntled employee accusing them? There is absolutely no proof yet, is there?

Again, what is your basis for saying Mullins and other trainers will "make millions" in a lawsuit? Proof? Legal precedence?

[Relwob Owner]

I totally get that everyone hates Mullins but the stuff that went on in California Racing was inexcusable. The courts will decide this one and the CHRB will most likely be getting out the checkbook.


Who needs a courtroom when you have already made the judgement on it?


Again, any cases in the past to support your constant "they will be getting out the checkbook" predictions?

[lamboguy]

its unfair to the horse players that any drugs are in the horse's system. it is impossible to handicap for horses on drugs. in my very humble opinion, in the long run, horses that run without drugs will beat horses that run with them. sure its alot easier for a trainer to train their horses on the drugs because the doesn't feel any pain, or breathes better. but there always comes a time when the horse becomes immune to the drugs and the horse has pain or can't breath, or the drugs finally disintegrated the brain cells of the poor horse. of course we can see that not many horses from the bigtime trainers make it into their 4 year old career, and of course we can see that sportscasters on espn are calling the horseracing a fraud on the public. i can't argue with them. the more this element gets swept under the rug the worse off the game is going to be along with the poor horse.

[andymays]

Who needs a courtroom when you have already made the judgement on it?


Again, any cases in the past to support your constant "they will be getting out the checkbook" predictions?

I can tell you're not too familiar with the goings on in California. They lose most of the time. They are constantly writing checks to one particular Owner/Breeder who goes after them and wins the overwhelming majority of the cases he files.

As far as me making up my mind I have a more informed opinion than yours because I live here and follow California racing more closely than you do.

Did you read both articles?

[Relwob Owner]

I can tell you're not too familiar with the goings on in California. They lose most of the time. They are constantly writing checks to one particular Owner/Breeder who goes after them and wins the overwhelming majority of the cases he files.

As far as me making up my mind I have a more informed opinion than yours because I live here and follow California racing more closely than you do.

Did you read both articles?


I did and I see a lot of allegations and little proof.....let me know what I missed.....

I acknowledge you follow California racing more and know it better than me. You may have a more informed opinion but I would think that with that, you would have access to more proof to back up your extremely serious allegations and you dont seem to at all......care to elaborate and provide specific examples of your "constantly writing checks" example for those of us who arent as informed as you?


I have asked several times for any sort of backup to your claim that the trainers will "get millions" for being targeted in terms of legal precedence or anything to show that your prediction may be true......do you have any?


I appreciate your contributions to the board and your enthusiasm. I am also amazed about the amount of allegations you make and the lack of subsequent proof you have behind many of them. That is an informed opinion from me in the sense that I have seen so many of the allegations in your posts. Within this thread alone, you have stated many, many things as fact with really no solid proof....always good to throw "allegedly" in there when you can, no?

[andymays]

I did and I see a lot of allegations and little proof.....let me know what I missed.....

I acknowledge you follow California racing more and know it better than me. You may have a more informed opinion but I would think that with that, you would have access to more proof to back up your extremely serious allegations and you dont seem to at all......care to elaborate and provide specific examples of your "constantly writing checks" example for those of us who arent as informed as you?


I have asked several times for any sort of backup to your claim that the trainers will "get millions" for being targeted in terms of legal precedence or anything to show that your prediction may be true......do you have any?

I appreciate your contributions to the board and your enthusiasm. I am also amazed about the amount of allegations you make and the lack of subsequent proof you have behind many of them. That is an informed opinion from me in the sense that I have seen so many of the allegations in your posts. Within this thread alone, you have stated many, many things as fact with really no solid proof....always good to throw "allegedly" in there when you can, no?

How can I back up my claim that they will get millions? If they do I'll be right and if they don't I'll be wrong.

You'll have to take my word for it and several other PA members who are on the same email list that I'm on. They write checks constantly.

[Relwob Owner]

How can I back up my claim that they will get millions? If they do I'll be right and if they don't I'll be wrong.

You'll have to take my word for it and several other PA members who are on the same email list that I'm on. They write checks constantly.


You could back it up with past cases and/or payouts that were similar or situations in other businesses where the circumstances were the same. Without that, it is just a prediction with no basis.

Pretty bold to make so many allegations and when pressed to respond and back them up, to say "take my word for it" but to each his own.

[andymays]

You could back it up with past cases and/or payouts that were similar or situations in other businesses where the circumstances were the same. Without that, it is just a prediction with no basis.

Pretty bold to make so many allegations and when pressed to respond and back them up, to say "take my word for it" but to each his own.

Why should I take the time to do research to make you happy?

The article is about Mullins and the CHRB. Read the articles and comment on them. I'm not part of the story.

[Relwob Owner]

Why should I take the time to do research to make you happy?

The article is about Mullins and the CHRB. Read the articles and comment on them. I'm not part of the story.

I read the stories and commented(like you recommended above) and in post 9, you responded directly to my comment with your "he will win millions" prediction that you cant any backup for.....

As far as taking the time to research to make me happy. I guess you are saying you dont take the time to research or havent thus far? I wouldnt do it to make me happy, I would do it so that some of your extreme allegations and predictions have substance and proof to support them.

[andymays]

I read the stories and commented(like you recommended above) and in post 9, you responded directly to my comment with your "he will win millions" prediction that you cant any backup for.....

As far as taking the time to research to make me happy. I guess you are saying you dont take the time to research or havent thus far? I wouldnt do it to make me happy, I would do it so that some of your extreme allegations and predictions have substance and proof to support them.

How in the hell am I going to back up "he will win millions". It's my informed opinion.

Read the articles again. There are extreme allegations in the articles aren't there? :bang:

No rule against having extreme opinions. :rolleyes:

[Stillriledup]

How in the hell am I going to back up "he will win millions". It's my informed opinion.

Read the articles again. There are extreme allegations in the articles aren't there? :bang:

No rule against having extreme opinions. :rolleyes:

:lol:

Its no use. People here want YOU to do the research. I remember one time PA asked me to 'show me the research' on some point i made and i was like "do the research yourself if you want the answer"

I guess someone forgot to tell you that you're RO's personal secretary and when he says to get him some info, you better do it! You don't want to get fired.

[andymays]

The big story here is not really Mullins. It's what happened at the CHRB.

If and when it goes to court we will have a lot to talk (write) about on PA.

[Relwob Owner]

How in the hell am I going to back up "he will win millions". It's my informed opinion.Read the articles again. There are extreme allegations in the articles aren't there? :bang:

No rule against having extreme opinions. :rolleyes:


Actually, no. Its an uninformed opinion because there is no basis for it.....

No rule against having extreme opinions and no rule against questioning those opinions(and the allegations that accompany them) and asking for some support for them other than you saying "take my word for it".

[andymays]

Actually, no. Its an uninformed opinion because there is no basis for it.....

No rule against having extreme opinions and no rule against questioning those opinions(and the allegations that accompany them) and asking for some support for them other than you saying "take my word for it".

Well when someone tells you who's going to win the Preakness on Saturday I hope you give them the same treatment.

There is a basis for it because the Past Performances tell me so.

[Relwob Owner]

Well when someone tells you who's going to win the Preakness on Saturday I hope you give them the same treatment.

There is a basis for it because the Past Performances tell me so.




Same treatment, in the sense that I might ask them what their opinion is based on? That would make perfect sense, just like it makes sense to ask you what your opinions are based on. Only difference is that they might actually respond with facts and not tell me to "take their word for it."


You are really off here.....to your analogy, which "past performances" indicate a million dollar payoff like you predict?

[andymays]

Same treatment, in the sense that I might ask them what their opinion is based on? That would make perfect sense, just like it makes sense to ask you what your opinions are based on. Only difference is that they might actually respond with facts and not tell me to "take their word for it."


You are really off here.....to your analogy, which "past performances" indicate a million dollar payoff like you predict?

You're talking about a potential group of 5 high profile trainers who were targeted. You're talking about their reputations. It wouldn't surprise me to see them sue for 10 million each.

The only one off here is you. You seem to have a need to correct people when you don't really know what you're talking about.

Get a clue and get back to me when you have an informed opinion.

[Relwob Owner]

You're talking about a potential group of 5 high profile trainers who were targeted. You're talking about their reputations. It wouldn't surprise me to see them sue for 10 million each.

The only one off here is you. You seem to have a need to correct people when you don't really know what you're talking about.

Get a clue and get back to me when you have an informed opinion.

I guess it upsets you that are actually asked to back up some of the stuff you throw out there.

Please show where in this thread I asked you to correct something. I didn't, so that "need" you mention doesn't exist and is simply a personal attack by you to deflect. There is a good chance you are right about what you are saying but
it is perfectly fair to inquire with some facts to backup what you say and what you predict.

For someone who claims to know so much about the California scene, it is surprising that when you are asked to show some of that knowledge, you suddenly back off and say "take my word for it".

[tubesockshakur]

If this is true he will win several million dollars in court. If the allegations are true regarding the targeting of certain trainers then how do we know they didn't falsify the testing to get rid of him?

This is going to be a big deal when it's all said and done.

:ThmbUp:

[andymays]

I guess it upsets you that are actually asked to back up some of the stuff you throw out there.

Please show where in this thread I asked you to correct something. I didn't, so that "need" you mention doesn't exist and is simply a personal attack by you to deflect. There is a good chance you are right about what you are saying but
it is perfectly fair to inquire with some facts to backup what you say and what you predict.

For someone who claims to know so much about the California scene, it is surprising that when you are asked to show some of that knowledge, you suddenly back off and say "take my word for it".

Is there something wrong with you? Just asking. :bang:

[Relwob Owner]

Is there something wrong with you? Just asking. :bang:


More deflecting.....do you ever respond to posts directly in terms of their content? You said I like to correct people and you couldn't even back that up.

No, nothing wrong with me. I just like it when people can back up what they say and you don't. Even worse, you portray yourself as this insider and then when asked to back things up, clam up.


It is funny. You get so ticked off when I am simply asking you to support your own opinions/allegations. You still haven't amd have digressed into personally attacking me and asking if there is something wrong with me.....pretty weak but then that is consistent with you.

[andymays]

More deflecting.....do you ever respond to posts directly in terms of their content? You said I like to correct people and you couldn't even back that up.

No, nothing wrong with me. I just like it when people can back up what they say and you don't. Even worse, you portray yourself as this insider and then when asked to back things up, clam up.


It is funny. You get so ticked off when I am simply asking you to support your own opinions/allegations. You still haven't amd have digressed into personally attacking me and asking if there is something wrong with me.....pretty weak but then that is consistent with you.

You're a pain in the ass who doesn't know what he's talking about. Your posts in this thread are evidence of that!

[Relwob Owner]

You're a pain in the ass who doesn't know what he's talking about. Your posts in this thread are evidence of that!


All class Andy....tough not to return fire in terms of saying insulting things back at you but I won't sink to your already low level.

You are consistent in your ability to ignore questions you know you cant answer or are wrong about and deflect by attacking me.

Have a great night Andy

[andymays]

All class Andy....tough not to return fire in terms of saying insulting things back at you but I won't sink to your already low level.

You are consistent in your ability to ignore questions you know you cant answer or are wrong about and deflect by attacking me.

Have a great night Andy

Listen Gilligan. If there's one thing I've learned over the last couple of years its that it's a mistake to make judments on jurisdictions you know nothing about.

On this board we have TLG to tell you what's going on in NY.

We also have rwwupl to tell you what's going on in CA. I'm a close second to rwwup. What jurisdiction are you from? I'm willing to defer to you when you have an informed opinion about something going on in your jurisdiction.

By the way who identifies themeselves as an owner?

I'm andymays the horseplayer. Glad to meet you! :bang:

[rwwupl]

No need to argue over opinions. The California CHRB has a long history of being involved with lawsuits and the record for the CHRB is not so good.

Just "Google" CHRB Lawsuits and get the idea. The Mory Atashkar case is a recent example:

Last Modified: Thursday, May. 5, 2011 - 10:46 am

The former chief information officer of the California Horse Racing Board in Sacramento has filed a $5 million lawsuit against the state agency, alleging that retaliation for his whistle-blowing caused him emotional and physical distress.


http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/55581/chrb-jamgotchian-settle-longstanding-lawsuit


Responding in an e-mail, Jamgotchian, a longtime CHRB critic and litigant against the board over a variety of issues, wrote: "The CHRB wasted over $200,000 in state funds on this case which was caused solely by (former CHRB executive director) Ingrid Fermin and (former board chairman) Richard Shapiro's protection of their rogue steward, George Slender.

Read more: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/55581/chrb-jamgotchian-settle-longstanding-lawsuit#ixzz1Mq3xALG3


The Jeff Mullins case is open to speculation as to the final result.

We all know it could cut many ways, just like a horse race. You can not prove what will happen in the future so everyone is entitled to their opinion.

What would BetFair do with this?

It is impossible to supply direct facts to something that has not happened yet, each person should do their own research that forms their OPINION

rw

[Relwob Owner]

[QUOTE=andymays]Listen Gilligan. If there's one thing I've learned over the last couple of years its that it's a mistake to make judments on jurisdictions you know nothing about.

On this board we have TLG to tell you what's going on in NY.

We also have rwwupl to tell you what's going on in CA. I'm a close second to rwwup. What jurisdiction are you from? I'm willing to defer to you when you have an informed opinion about something going on in your jurisdiction.

By the way who identifies themeselves as an owner?

I'm andymays the horseplayer. Glad to meet you! :bang:[/

Please name one time in this thread I offered anything that I know what is going on in CA. I don't profess to know much because I am not there. my point over and over is that you profess to know things and put opinions and allegations out there and don't back them up with anything. For those who would like to learn more, it would help to have people like you do more than use more than "take their word for it" as proof to back up what they say.

You also show your maturity level by your inability to debate in a way that actually addresses questions and in a way that doesn't deflect and respond with personal attacks.

As far as "gilligan" and other personal attacks on me, you continue to exhibit your own maturity level and class. You may not like me questioning you and me doing it may be a pain in your ass but your response and name calling speaks volumes about you and how you go about things.

[andymays]

[QUOTE=andymays]Listen Gilligan. If there's one thing I've learned over the last couple of years its that it's a mistake to make judments on jurisdictions you know nothing about.

On this board we have TLG to tell you what's going on in NY.

We also have rwwupl to tell you what's going on in CA. I'm a close second to rwwup. What jurisdiction are you from? I'm willing to defer to you when you have an informed opinion about something going on in your jurisdiction.

By the way who identifies themeselves as an owner?

I'm andymays the horseplayer. Glad to meet you! :bang:[/

Please name one time in this thread I offered anything that I know what is going on in CA. I don't profess to know much because I am not there. my point over and over is that you profess to know things and put opinions and allegations out there and don't back them up with anything. For those who would like to learn more, it would help to have people like you do more than use more than "take their word for it" as proof to back up what they say.

You also show your maturity level by your inability to debate in a way that actually addresses questions and in a way that doesn't deflect and respond with personal attacks.

As far as "gilligan" and other personal attacks on me, you continue to exhibit your own maturity level and class. You may not like me questioning you and me doing it may be a pain in your ass but your response and name calling speaks volumes about you and how you go about things.

NO answers for you! Yes, you belong on Gilligans Island.

How about the personal attacks on Mullins? If the allegations are true, which I believe they are then what?.............................................

Now what Gilligan?

[Deepsix]

Pardon my this~ It seems rather similar topic, eh?

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/the-biz/mullins-vows-to-fight-70-day-suspension/[/url]

[Deepsix]

Sorry I butchered the link.

[Relwob Owner]

[QUOTE=Relwob Owner]

NO answers for you! Yes, you belong on Gilligans Island.

How about the personal attacks on Mullins? If the allegations are true, which I believe they are then what?.............................................

Now what Gilligan?

I stopped calling people names when I was in my teens....obviously it is has been a slower transition for you Andy....

Why no answers for me? It is because you don't have any. You are a one way street and can spout off and hurl accusations and insults but when you are challenged, you cower and resort to name calling.....is this what makes you a "close second" on this site in terms of California racing knowledge? You do seem to be very good at posting an article about California racing and starting a thread doing so......quite impressive.


As far as Mullins goes, if they targeted him and ignored others, that raises some questions. However, if they caight him legitimately, i dont see Mulins having a beef. Now, if they doctored the tests, that would open a whole new can of worms in terms of lawsuits and such and you might be right in terms of trainers whose tests were rigged having cause to take action.

I was being genuine when I asked about legal precedence because I do know that you know more than most and might know if situations it had occurred. If you had the ability to have a mature debate and not resort to name calling and insults, perhaps I could have learned something.....no such luck.

[andymays]

Pardon my this~ It seems rather similar topic, eh?

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/the-biz/mullins-vows-to-fight-70-day-suspension/[/url]

You know I love you Deep but your link aint workin. ;)

[Hanover1]

Not rocket science here imo. This former whoever, made public statements indicating that several trainers, including Mullins were "targeted".
Gonna be a tough sell unless this guy can muster any/several folks to collaborate in proving this. A question of character on both sides of the fence will only muddy the waters here, making it increasingly difficult to render any fair/unbiased verdict that serves any justice Mullins or others may seek. Imo, justice was served with the 70 days, and thats getting off easy.
Perhaps a review of HIS license is in order?
BTW: The Gilligan comment had me rolling...........Good one Andy.

[andymays]

Not rocket science here imo. This former whoever, made public statements indicating that several trainers, including Mullins were "targeted".
Gonna be a tough sell unless this guy can muster any/several folks to collaborate in proving this. A question of character on both sides of the fence will only muddy the waters here, making it increasingly difficult to render any fair/unbiased verdict that serves any justice Mullins or others may seek. Imo, justice was served with the 70 days, and thats getting off easy.
Perhaps a review of HIS license is in order?
BTW: The Gilligan comment had me rolling...........Good one Andy.

Hanover if you know anything about California Racing, which I know you do then you know what went on.

I still have it for Ginger! :lol:

[Deepsix]

Yeah, Deep love right back at ya. You know the link by heart... so how about helpin' me out?? Sorry Pace. Deep love to you too.

[andymays]

Yeah, Deep love right back at ya. You know the link by heart... so how about helpin' me out?? Sorry Pace. Deep love to you too.

Give us the real link Deep. You owe us that much.

I can feel your pain. ;)

[Relwob Owner]

Getting back to the debate part of it... A question that requires no knowledge of CA racing and applies to all tracks.....is there something wrong with targeting a certain trainer whose percentages seem too good to be true? If not and you take any speculations/allegations out of the equation regarding the fixing of tests, then why does Mullins have a beef?

[Hanover1]

Hanover if you know anything about California Racing, which I know you do then you know what went on.

I still have it for Ginger! :lol:

I have a good idea, lets leave it at that for the time being......having said that, you understand as well as I do what a tough sell this is gonna be? I have no doubt that this is what occured, however we both know that mitigating circumstances will, in all likelyhood, quash this real quick.
Noone currently protecting a 200k a year salary is gonna even give this one a second look.......

[Hanover1]

Getting back to the debate part of it... A question that requires no knowledge of CA racing and applies to all tracks.....is there something wrong with targeting a certain trainer whose percentages seem too good to be true? If not and you take any speculations/allegations out of the equation regarding the fixing of tests, then why does Mullins have a beef?

Mullins has no beef in the eyes of many, even though he is aware that he WAS targeted. He deserved all the scrutiny he got. He rubbed to many people the wrong way was his biggest problem. As we recall, Sadler, at one time had as many issues as well. Quietly going about business as usual, made his adjustments, and all is well. Mullins can't leave well enough alone, and its gonna bury him.......

[andymays]

Mullins has no beef in the eyes of many, even though he is aware that he WAS targeted. He deserved all the scrutiny he got. He rubbed to many people the wrong way was his biggest problem. As we recall, Sadler, at one time had as many issues as well. Quietly going about business as usual, made his adjustments, and all is well. Mullins can't leave well enough alone, and its gonna bury him.......

I have no beef with anyone calling them Kuckleheads but even the Sadler thing was out of line. He didn't violate any rules. They leaked out the information and painted him as a cheater even though he wasn't.

[Hanover1]

I have no beef with anyone calling them Kuckleheads but even the Sadler thing was out of line. He didn't violate any rules. They leaked out the information and painted him as a cheater even though he wasn't.

He's playing right into their hands....(Mullins)

[andymays]

:D He's playing right into their hands....(Mullins)

Right. Nobody can deny the knucklehead factor but he's gonna win this beef and be set for the rest of his life. (by the way that's my opinion). :D

[Relwob Owner]

:D

Right. Nobody can deny the knucklehead factor but he's gonna win this beef and be set for the rest of his life. (by the way that's my opinion). :D


Four pages later,maybe I can make my question clearer regarding your opinion. Do you think he could have a case for suing them if they just targeted him alone or do you think that there would have to have been some test fudging for that sort of claim to be considered?

[andymays]

Four pages later,maybe I can make my question clearer regarding your opinion. Do you think he could have a case for suing them if they just targeted him alone or do you think that there would have to have been some test fudging for that sort of claim to be considered?

Quit digging!

[Relwob Owner]

Quit digging!



I am not digging at all, just asking what you think. I think that targeting him alone is not grounds but that obviously if there were fudged tests or something nefarious going on, he would clearly have some sort of case.

You call yourself a "close second" in terms of CA knowledge on this site and you cant answer this simple question?


You asking someone to "quit digging" seems very much like a pot calling kettle black situation and I wasnt even digging in the least, just asking for your opinion, which always seems to be pretty free flowing.

Congratulations on getting through a post without insulting me-maybe you are making progress.

[andymays]

I am not digging at all, just asking what you think. I think that targeting him alone is not grounds but that obviously if there were fudged tests or something nefarious going on, he would clearly have some sort of case.

You call yourself a "close second" in terms of CA knowledge on this site and you cant answer this simple question?


You asking someone to "quit digging" seems very much like a pot calling kettle black situation and I wasnt even digging in the least, just asking for your opinion, which always seems to be pretty free flowing.

Congratulations on getting through a post without insulting me-maybe you are making progress.


It's better for you if you stop but I'm off to dinner and will be back in a couple of hours if you still want to do whatever you do or say.

God Bless Gilligans Island, especially Ginger.

[Igeteven]

Getting back to the debate part of it... A question that requires no knowledge of CA racing and applies to all tracks.....is there something wrong with targeting a certain trainer whose percentages seem too good to be true? If not and you take any speculations/allegations out of the equation regarding the fixing of tests, then why does Mullins have a beef?

Relwob, are you in California , I think not!

If you had any experience in playing Cal Tracks, you would listen to Andymays, the guy really knows what is going on in California. :)

It shows by your posts, you have no idea what is really going on. :rolleyes:


Just take some friendly advice from a long time player. :)

[chickenhead]

I don't understand what the beef is here....I'm glad Mullins was targeted, and I'd expect him to get targeted. I'd HOPE there are documents showing he was targeted. Certainly no harm no foul there. That said, the CHRB does have an infinite ability to screw things up and it shouldn't surprise anyone if they did in some fashion.

[Relwob Owner]

It's better for you if you stop but I'm off to dinner and will be back in a couple of hours if you still want to do whatever you do or say.

God Bless Gilligans Island, especially Ginger.




Weird thing to say. I think you really are a legend in your on mind in terms of your knowledge and place in racing out there. Just an opinion and it is debatable because as you and I have pointed out, I dont follow racing out there as closely as you do. As I said earlier, you seem adept at posting articles about CA racing which is pretty impressive.

Hopefully at dinner, you can think of some more funny names to call me. Good luck with it and I think I have had my fill of this. Glad I didnt go down to your level in terms of getting personal and name calling because there is just no need.

Have a good dinner and a good night Andy

[Igeteven]

Weird thing to say. I think you really are a legend in your on mind in terms of your knowledge and place in racing out there. Just an opinion and it is debatable because as you and I have pointed out, I dont follow racing out there as closely as you do. As I said earlier, you seem adept at posting articles about CA racing which is pretty impressive.

Hopefully at dinner, you can think of some more funny names to call me. Good luck with it and I think I have had my fill of this. Glad I didnt go down to your level in terms of getting personal and name calling because there is just no need.

Have a good dinner and a good night Andy

I think this thread is dumb and stupid, I am glad it is over.

Everyone go to Dinner and enjoy yourselves :)


Lester

[Hanover1]

I am not digging at all, just asking what you think. I think that targeting him alone is not grounds but that obviously if there were fudged tests or something nefarious going on, he would clearly have some sort of case.

You call yourself a "close second" in terms of CA knowledge on this site and you cant answer this simple question?


You asking someone to "quit digging" seems very much like a pot calling kettle black situation and I wasnt even digging in the least, just asking for your opinion, which always seems to be pretty free flowing.

Congratulations on getting through a post without insulting me-maybe you are making progress.

Relwob: I have no dog in this fight, but it really seems that you want an answer to an opinion. Opinions are not always based on pure facts, but conjecture, speculation, and the like. Can't we leave it at that? I respect the effort Andy puts forth to inform us of events, just as I enjoy reading your posts as well. You guys ought to agree to disagree. I never caught the part about fixing test results from Andys posts. That came from your camp. If he thinks Mullins stands to get "millions", hey, whatever.....I tend to disagree myself, and outlined why, rather than demand, over and over again, where he could show that it has happened before, and will again in this case. And not once did I get called Gilligan. That is reserved for PA and a select crowd of others (insert smile icon here.......)

[Igeteven]

Relwob: I have no dog in this fight, but it really seems that you want an answer to an opinion. Opinions are not always based on pure facts, but conjecture, speculation, and the like. Can't we leave it at that? I respect the effort Andy puts forth to inform us of events, just as I enjoy reading your posts as well. You guys ought to agree to disagree. I never caught the part about fixing test results from Andys posts. That came from your camp. If he thinks Mullins stands to get "millions", hey, whatever.....I tend to disagree myself, and outlined why, rather than demand, over and over again, where he could show that it has happened before, and will again in this case. And not once did I get called Gilligan. That is reserved for PA and a select crowd of others (insert smile icon here.......)


:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Thank heavens it is over. thanks Hanover1 :) :) :)

[PaceAdvantage]

:lol:

Its no use. People here want YOU to do the research. I remember one time PA asked me to 'show me the research' on some point i made and i was like "do the research yourself if you want the answer"

I guess someone forgot to tell you that you're RO's personal secretary and when he says to get him some info, you better do it! You don't want to get fired.How sad. You come on here and claim something as fact, but when pressed for your reason as to why this fact is valid, you tell the questioner to "do your own research."

I'm beginning to believe the hype that you are indeed a troll. Because that's exactly what a troll would say.

[Relwob Owner]

Relwob: I have no dog in this fight, but it really seems that you want an answer to an opinion. Opinions are not always based on pure facts, but conjecture, speculation, and the like. Can't we leave it at that? I respect the effort Andy puts forth to inform us of events, just as I enjoy reading your posts as well. You guys ought to agree to disagree. I never caught the part about fixing test results from Andys posts. That came from your camp. If he thinks Mullins stands to get "millions", hey, whatever.....I tend to disagree myself, and outlined why, rather than demand, over and over again, where he could show that it has happened before, and will again in this case. And not once did I get called Gilligan. That is reserved for PA and a select crowd of others (insert smile icon here.......)



Nice post Hanover and I appreciate your thoughts......however, I must point out an inaccuracy. Andy was the one who brought up fixing the test results(see post 9 where he clearly brought it up for the first time.) It 100 percent did not come from my camp and i encourage you to check and confirm that because it is the basis for your post. I initially commented that I didnt think it mattered if he was targeted or not if he did indeed violate the rules.


I apologize for this long drawn out back and forth between the two of us. As we all know from being on here, it happens and the afterwards you usually question why you put yourself and others on here through it:)

[PaceAdvantage]

Why would he win several million dollars? Because he was targeted and caught? Do you have any sort of legal precedence supporting your prediction?

It would seem simple for the powers that be out there to claim that they dont have the time or man power to catch every person doing something wrong and that they have to consolidate their efforts the way they did with JM.........plus, if there was some sort of personal bias found to be, that person could simply say he/she didnt like cheaters, no?This huge battle you've instigated in this thread boggles my mind. You are asking for proof on an opinion?

The man said "if this is TRUE, the trainer will get millions." He used the word IF. He didn't claim it was true.

Look back on this thread (after I close it of course). Do you really think it was worth it or even called for?