Wilbon on PTI talks horse racing

[cj]

"...horse racing is a joke right now. It is like boxing. It is a fraud."

"...the horsies at least get 2/3s of the way there, at least a lot of them, before they fall apart and choke like dogs."

Listen here (http://espn.go.com/espnradio/player?rd=1#/podcenter/?callsign=ESPNRADIO&autoplay=1&id=6560689)

The horse racing part starts around 17:30 as they discuss what is easier, Triple Crown for horse racing or baseball.

[PhantomOnTour]

Wilbon has always hated horseracing. He's an avid bowler...i guess he's got enough excitement in his life :rolleyes:

[Robert Goren]

He is right.

[turfbar]

They are both assholes


Turfbar

[cj]

Like him or not, the guy is intelligent and he is mainstream. This is how the sport is perceived. Is her really even wrong? Sure, he could have been more diplomatic about it, but he was honest.

At least boxing can still get people to pay $50 to watch a fight.

[FenceBored]

Like him or not, the guy is intelligent and he is mainstream. This is how the sport is perceived. Is her really even wrong? Sure, he could have been more diplomatic about it, but he was honest.

At least boxing can still get people to pay $50 to watch a fight.

Hey, credit where credit's due. The Breeders' Cup tried to attract that demographic last year.

[Canarsie]

I like Wilbon. My litmus test always is could he have hung out with me in the streets of Brooklyn. A definitive yes when it comes to him I won't say what would have happened to Kornheiser.

Plus even though it was negative it's still a plug for racing and every little bit helps.

[Rapid Grey]

Kornheiser supports it because he use to write with Beyer at the Washington Post. Wilbon is just a blowhard who likely never even watches horse racing anymore yet always has his opinion, and it's always the same.

[sonnyp]

Kornheiser supports it because he use to write with Beyer at the Washington Post. Wilbon is just a blowhard who likely never even watches horse racing anymore yet always has his opinion, and it's always the same.



#6 (showpost.php?p=1099585&postcount=6) sonnyp (member.php?u=9539)
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,181
vCash: 400


Quote:
Originally Posted by On Spec
About half of the other TVs in the store were already tuned to the basketball game. He wanted the race (which, granted, was over) off the sets. Even I don't think a horseback interview is as visually interesting as an NBA playoff game, but the upcoming replays of the race could have been nice.

Just noting a lack of interest of shoppers and those who sell to them.




it is sad, but i think the love of the game clouds the perception of most of the members on this board as to how to little the modern american puplic cares about horseracing.

stand in times square and take a survey by asking the name of this years kentucky derby winner or his jock.

any guesses as to what % would would know either ?
images/statusicon/user_online.gif images/buttons/green/quote.gif (newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1099585)

[Rapid Grey]

"stand in times square and take a survey by asking the name of this years kentucky derby winner or his jock.

any guesses as to what % would would know either ?"

Couldn't you say the exact same thing about the major sports too?
Who's playing in the NHL playoffs?
Name me two players on the Mets?
Who won the Masters this year?
What sport does the Oklahoma City Thunder play in?

[jfdinneen]

On a recent PTI program, Mike stated that he continually denigrates horse-racing in part to upset Tony. He also conceded that his best memories of childhood were spending Saturdays with his father handicapping the weekend's upcoming races.

In fact, on most broadcasts, he expresses ongoing frustration that two of his favorite sports from childhood - boxing and horse-racing - are no longer in the ascendant.

John

[thaskalos]

"stand in times square and take a survey by asking the name of this years kentucky derby winner or his jock.

any guesses as to what % would would know either ?"

Couldn't you say the exact same thing about the major sports too?
Who's playing in the NHL playoffs?
Name me two players on the Mets?
Who won the Masters this year?
What sport does the Oklahoma City Thunder play in?
If the horse racing industry is trying to package this game and present it to the masses as a "spectator sport"...then they are doomed to failure. Those days are over!

This is a GAMBLING GAME...and its future depends on whether or not the nation's GAMBLERS consider it to be a game worth betting on.

I say, forget about trying to shove this game down the general public's throat...the general public couldn't care less about it.

There are enough GAMBLERS in this country to support ALL the gambling games in existence...provided that these games are honest, and priced fairly takeout-wise.

Unfortunately - in its current state - our game gets very low grades in both these categories...so it doesn't appeal to the gambling masses either.

[sonnyp]

If the horse racing industry is trying to package this game and present it to the masses as a "spectator sport"...then they are doomed to failure. Those days are over!

This is a GAMBLING GAME...and its future depends on whether or not the nation's GAMBLERS consider it to be a game worth betting on.

I say, forget about trying to shove this game down the general public's throat...the general public couldn't care less about it.

There are enough GAMBLERS in this country to support ALL the gambling games in existence...provided that these games are honest, and priced fairly takeout-wise.

Unfortunately - in its current state - our game gets very low grades in both these categories...so it doesn't appeal to the gambling masses either.


agree !!! we also need to get the government out of making moral decisions and off the back of gamblers.

[The Hawk]

There is over $10 billion bet on Thoroughbred horse racing every year.

Just because mainstream America doesn't care about the Peter Pan doesn't mean racing is dead, just as mainstream America doesn't care who wins the Pocono 500. Auto racing gets headlines a few times a year, and is on network tv here and there. We may not like it, but does that mean that's dead too?

Horse racing will never be what it was, which is what bothers most of the hand-wringers. But some bozo on ESPN trashes it, for whatever reason, and his opinion means something?

[thaskalos]

There is over $10 billion bet on Thoroughbred horse racing every year.

Just because mainstream America doesn't care about the Peter Pan doesn't mean racing is dead, just as mainstream America doesn't care who wins the Pocono 500. Auto racing gets headlines a few times a year, and is on network tv here and there. We may not like it, but does that mean that's dead too?

Horse racing will never be what it was, which is what bothers most of the hand-wringers. But some bozo on ESPN trashes it, for whatever reason, and his opinion means something?
Auto racing does not depend on the wagers of its fans in order to survive.

[The Hawk]

Auto racing does not depend on the wagers of its fans in order to survive.

Good thing, it would be dead.

The idea is that both are fringe sports, yet fans of auto racing don't continually complain that their sport isn't given enough respect.

[thaskalos]

Good thing, it would be dead.

The idea is that both are fringe sports, yet fans of auto racing don't continually complain that their sport isn't given enough respect.
Its not a matter of respect...it's a matter of survival.

The mutuel handles nationwide have been declining drastically year after year...and they cannot support the purse structures already in place.

The horsemen are not in the mood for a pay cut, nor do they want reduced race dates...while the racing fan has already expressed his displeasure at the escalating takeouts (see Santa Anita).

Since it's doubtful that the slots will be able to rescue this sport single-handedly...I would think that the horse racing fans have some very valid reasons to be concerned about their favorite sport...

[Dahoss9698]

Good thing, it would be dead.

The idea is that both are fringe sports, yet fans of auto racing don't continually complain that their sport isn't given enough respect.

Auto racing might not get the same national attention as the big 4 sports, but it's on ESPN daily in one way or another. Horse racing is on ESPN 5 times a year tops.

I don't know if auto racing could really be called a fringe sport anymore either. Nascar alone has over 75 million fans in the US.

[thaskalos]

Auto racing might not get the same national attention as the big 4 sports, but it's on ESPN daily in one way or another. Horse racing is on ESPN 5 times a year tops.

And it can't break into ESPN's top 3 sports stories of the day, even on the day of the Kentucky Derby.

[The Hawk]

Its not a matter of respect...it's a matter of survival.

The mutuel handles nationwide have been declining drastically year after year...and they cannot support the purse structures already in place.

The horsemen are not in the mood for a pay cut, nor do they want reduced race dates...while the racing fan has already expressed his displeasure at the escalating takeouts (see Santa Anita).

Since it's doubtful that the slots will be able to rescue this sport single-handedly...I would think that the horse racing fans have some very valid reasons to be concerned about their favorite sport...

You're right, racing is dead.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Name something you don't like,don't pay attention to,and would hate to be forced to watch.Then formulate an opinion on it.That's what this is in a nutshell.

[The Hawk]

Auto racing might not get the same national attention as the big 4 sports, but it's on ESPN daily in one way or another. Horse racing is on ESPN 5 times a year tops.

And it's on NBC at least that many times.

I don't know if auto racing could really be called a fringe sport anymore either. Nascar alone has over 75 million fans in the US.

I don't believe that for a minute, but it does illustrate that auto racing does a much better job promoting its sport.

[Dahoss9698]

And it's on NBC at least that many times.



I don't believe that for a minute, but it does illustrate that auto racing does a much better job promoting its sport.

You can't compare the amount of coverage auto racing gets vs horse racing because there is no comparison, auto racing wins in a landslide. It's on every weekend, on multiple channels. We got excited because NBC showed the Woodford Reserve this year, instead of skipping it the last few years. Come on.

I saw several sites that list their fans at 75 million. I realize it's a hard thing to pinpoint, but judging by the amount of revenue it generates, the number is hardly surprising, to me at least.

[Ocala Mike]

Who's the guy that comes on in the evening for ESPN with "PMI" (Pardon MY Interruption)? Wonder if he'll have something to say about this exchange.


Ocala Mike

[The Hawk]

You can't compare the amount of coverage auto racing gets vs horse racing because there is no comparison, auto racing wins in a landslide. It's on every weekend, on multiple channels. We got excited because NBC showed the Woodford Reserve this year, instead of skipping it the last few years. Come on.

I saw several sites that list their fans at 75 million. I realize it's a hard thing to pinpoint, but judging by the amount of revenue it generates, the number is hardly surprising, to me at least.

Horse racing is on multiple channels, every day. Auto racing is not. True, they're not national networks, but there's enough interest in horse racing to support TWO channels.

As far as the Woodford Reserve, you can't gauge national interest in a sport based on the whims of a couple of producers who'd rather show fluff pieces.

There's $12 billion bet on horse racing every year. That doesn't include any revenue besides betting. How many fans of racing are there?

Wilborn is one guy on ESPN. Funny how these remarks come out once ESPN is no longer showing races regularly.

[Dahoss9698]

Horse racing is on multiple channels, every day. Auto racing is not. True, they're not national networks, but there's enough interest in horse racing to support TWO channels.

As far as the Woodford Reserve, you can't gauge national interest in a sport based on the whims of a couple of producers who'd rather show fluff pieces.

There's $12 billion bet on horse racing every year. That doesn't include any revenue besides betting. How many fans of racing are there?

Wilborn is one guy on ESPN. Funny how these remarks come out once ESPN is no longer showing races regularly.

I don't even really have an issue with what Wilbon said, so you're barking up the wrong tree there. And I'm not gauging national interest based on them showing or not showing the Woodford. The point is, it's a grade 1 turf race and it's been pre-empted for years in favor of puff pieces.

But, as I said, there is no comparision to the amount of coverage auto and horse racing gets on a NATIONAL stage and you know it. Unless you're a fan of horse racing, you have no idea what TVG and HRTV are. Plus, they aren't readily available to everyone.

But I can turn on the TV everynight to ESPN and get some sort of update on auto racing. I can't do that for horse racing.

[The Hawk]

But I can turn on the TV everynight to ESPN and get some sort of update on auto racing. I can't do that for horse racing.

Not sure that first part is true. And horse racing doesn't warrant a nightly update. Never did. Some people want horse racing to be baseball. It's not, never will be.

[JohnGalt1]

Remember, it was Wilbon who made the "joke" about Zenyatta-burgers.

[turfnsport]

Kornheiser supports it because he use to write with Beyer at the Washington Post. Wilbon is just a blowhard who likely never even watches horse racing anymore yet always has his opinion, and it's always the same.

Wilbon worked at the Wash Post for 20 years. Some of his columns on the Capitals were laughable. He needed to stick to the NBA.

He used to be good until he got the ESPN mentality.

Now he is just a tool.

[Robert Goren]

There's $12 billion bet on horse racing every year. That doesn't include any revenue besides betting. How many fans of racing are there?More money that is bet on one football game, the super bowl. A lot of people watching it don't even have money on it. Almost everybody who is watching a horse race has money. So do some people who aren't watching. When you start comparing horse racing to a sport like football you realize how small horse racing is. I even strong suspect although I don't have numbers on it that high school football outdraws horse racing. I know it does in Nebraska by a wide margin. I am pretty sure it does in Texas too. In fact it would surprise me Texas high school football out drew every race track in the country.
When people think auto racing , they think of NSCAR, but there lot of small tracks racing every saturday night in the south and the midwest. They get a crowd without betting. How many horse tracks could run without betting?

[The Hawk]

More money that is bet on one football game, the super bowl. A lot of people watching it don't even have money on it.

Anything compared to the Super Bowl is going to look bad.

When you start comparing horse racing to a sport like football you realize how small horse racing is. I even strong suspect although I don't have numbers on it that high school football outdraws horse racing. I know it does in Nebraska by a wide margin. I am pretty sure it does in Texas too. In fact it would surprise me Texas high school football out drew every race track in the country.

How many people gather across the country to watch Texas high school football on little televisions?

When people think auto racing , they think of NSCAR, but there lot of small tracks racing every saturday night in the south and the midwest. They get a crowd without betting. How many horse tracks could run without betting?

Few. How many casinos would be in business if there was no money to be run? Zero. These are gambling games.

I brought up auto racing because though it's not a "major" sport, much like horse racing, it does well on big days throughout the year. That seems to be enough for auto racing, but some supporters of horse racing whine because we're not on the cover of the sports pages everyday. I'm fine with it. To be honest, it doesn't warrant that kind of coverage.

[Dahoss9698]

Not sure that first part is true. And horse racing doesn't warrant a nightly update. Never did. Some people want horse racing to be baseball. It's not, never will be.

I don't just make things up for the sake of talking. Turn on Sportscenter tonight. There will be something on Nascar.

I'm not talking about a nightly update for horse racing. But certainly it warrants more than it currently gets, no?

[tzipi]

There is over $10 billion bet on Thoroughbred horse racing every year.

Just because mainstream America doesn't care about the Peter Pan doesn't mean racing is dead, just as mainstream America doesn't care who wins the Pocono 500. Auto racing gets headlines a few times a year, and is on network tv here and there. We may not like it, but does that mean that's dead too?

Horse racing will never be what it was, which is what bothers most of the hand-wringers. But some bozo on ESPN trashes it, for whatever reason, and his opinion means something?


Well the thing is, people can watch their favorite Nascar Sprint Cup drivers run 4 times a month and even more times if they run in the nationwide series too. People have to wait month or more to see their favorite horses step on the track for one race these days. Then after a couple races....poof.. retired.

[Wiley]

Funny Wilburn uses the term "fraud' for horse racing when also comparing with baseball, not much more fraudulent then the steroid era of baseball, especially the Sosa - McGuirre chase that baseball held up and built ratings on.

Yes racing has a lot of problems but at least the horses are honest in racing, cannot say that for all of the people involved, but the horses to me still make it a great game.

Wilburn sounds like the whinny bettor who played Smarty, Funny, Real Quiet etc. in their Belmonts.

[The Hawk]

I don't just make things up for the sake of talking. Turn on Sportscenter tonight. There will be something on Nascar.

I'm not talking about a nightly update for horse racing. But certainly it warrants more than it currently gets, no?

No. If it did it would get it. Fans of women's basketball complain about the lack of coverage, too.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Funny Wilburn uses the term "fraud' for horse racing when also comparing with baseball, not much more fraudulent then the steroid era of baseball, especially the Sosa - McGuirre chase that baseball held up and built ratings on.

Yes racing has a lot of problems but at least the horses are honest in racing, cannot say that for all of the people involved, but the horses to me still make it a great game.

Wilburn sounds like the whinny bettor who played Smarty, Funny, Real Quiet etc. in their Belmonts.

This is a great point and true for me as well.

[Dahoss9698]

No. If it did it would get it. Fans of women's basketball complain about the lack of coverage, too.

We'll agree to disagree. I happen to think results and a stretch run of major races should be shown. It's not like there is a time crunch.

You disagree. Life will go on I'm sure. The women's basketball was a nice touch though. Desperate, but funny nonetheless.

[The Hawk]

We'll agree to disagree. I happen to think results and a stretch run of major races should be shown. It's not like there is a time crunch.

You disagree. Life will go on I'm sure. The women's basketball was a nice touch though. Desperate, but funny nonetheless.

Thanks. That means a lot, coming from a real wit like you.

[Dahoss9698]

Thanks. That means a lot, coming from a real wit like you.

Another knee slapper. Someone must be feeding you these lines. No one can be this funny (or bitter and miserable) on their own.

[Kelso]

Horse racing is on multiple channels, every day. Auto racing is not.I don't think this says much about horse racing's general appeal. Might be wrong, but I think TVG and HRTV have to pay carriers to telecast their channels.

The networks that show NASCAR, in contrast, are paid BY the carriers for the right to relay their signals, including NASCAR.

[The Hawk]

I don't think this says much about horse racing's general appeal. Might be wrong, but I think TVG and HRTV have to pay carriers to telecast their channels.

The networks that show NASCAR, in contrast, are paid BY the carriers for the right to relay their signals, including NASCAR.

Do you mean the Speed Channel?

[The Hawk]

Another knee slapper. Someone must be feeding you these lines. No one can be this funny (or bitter and miserable) on their own.

Thanks! That's twice you told me I was funny. Do you have any redeeming characteristics?

I'm hardly bitter, or miserable. On the contrary, I see the positives when it comes to horse racing, and take offense to so many people insisting on seeing the negative, like Wilbon. Let's keep this on topic.

[thaskalos]

Thanks! That's twice you told me I was funny. Do you have any redeeming characteristics?

I'm hardly bitter, or miserable. On the contrary, I see the positives when it comes to horse racing, and take offense to so many people insisting on seeing the negative, like Wilbon. Let's keep this on topic.
Would you mind informing ME as to the positives connected with horse racing currently?

I could use a more optimistic outlook too...

[Kelso]

Do you mean the Speed Channel?No. I mean FOX for the first half of the NASCAR season. I guess it would be ABC (Disney) if the second half is carried by ESPN.

[Dahoss9698]

Thanks! That's twice you told me I was funny. Do you have any redeeming characteristics?

I'm hardly bitter, or miserable. On the contrary, I see the positives when it comes to horse racing, and take offense to so many people insisting on seeing the negative, like Wilbon. Let's keep this on topic.

The problem is you have no idea what you are talking about, but are pretending you do.

[Cardus]

No. If it did it would get it. Fans of women's basketball complain about the lack of coverage, too.

A 12 to 24-second clip could convey the excitement -- and, of course, the conclusion -- of a Thoroughbred race.

What other sport could be conveyed that way?

Contrasting women's basketball and Thoroughbred racing is more accurate than comparing the two sports, no?

[The Hawk]

A 12 to 24-second clip could convey the excitement -- and, of course, the conclusion -- of a Thoroughbred race.

What other sport could be conveyed that way?

Contrasting women's basketball and Thoroughbred racing is more accurate than comparing the two sports, no?

Any sport can be conveyed this way. They do it all the time, it's called highlights.

You can compare women's basketball and horse racing based on the national averages, which sadly put them much closer than baseball and horse racing. The whole point of this is that while it would be great if the nation shared our love of horse racing it just doesn't, but we should, and do, enjoy it ourselves regardless of the lack of approval from mainstream media. The hand-wringers bitch about the coverage but, for instance, we could all do more for the game than any network by personally bringing new people to the track ourselves.

[The Hawk]

Would you mind informing ME as to the positives connected with horse racing currently?

I could use a more optimistic outlook too...

I love playing horses. I like the challenge, a day out in the sun, beautiful animals, the feeling when you make a decent score, some afternoon booze, etc. Makes me feel good. It's as simple as that. If I were miserable, I would do something else. Is the game going to here in 10 years? Who the hell knows. There are people who think the world is ending Saturday (20 minutes before the Preakness, by the way). We don't know if WE'LL be here in 10 years.

On that note, I'm out of this thread. Too many races to look at to deal with this foolishness. You guys let me know when the game is officially dead, so I can stop playing, and start betting NASCAR.

[Dahoss9698]

Nascar on TV schedule for 2011

http://www.chiff.com/recreation/sports/nextel-cup.htm

Every race being shown nationally.

Here is the horse racing schedule on TV up to August. A grand total of 3 days being televised nationally.

http://www.ntra.com/schedule#


How witty.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Nascar vs Horse Races?Fun exchange fellows.Real enlightening.

[Dahoss9698]

Nascar vs Horse Races?Fun exchange fellows.Real enlightening.

Good contribution.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Good contribution.

As was yours.

[Dahoss9698]

As was yours.


An even better comeback. You're good at this.