Post Office bailout????

[newtothegame]

Awww c'mon...its only 2.2 billion for THREE months in losses.....:bang:

After Another Quarterly Loss, Postal Service Licks Its Wounds

By James Rosen (http://www.foxnews.com/author/james-rosen/index.html)

Published May 12, 2011

| FoxNews.com

Please Mr. Postman! Not another federal bailout!

That’s one of the scenarios looming on the horizon after the U.S. Postal Service (http://www.foxnews.com/topics/postal-service.htm#r_src=ramp) released its latest financial report on Tuesday. The dismal data showed the agency lost $2.2 billion in the second quarter of fiscal year 2011 – much higher than the $1.6 billion in losses posted during the same time frame a year earlier – and may soon be unable to repay its Treasury Department loans.

“This is not going away but will get worse,” said Rick Geddes, an associate professor in policy analysis and management at Cornell University. “There is about $90 billion in unfunded liabilities. So there will be a giant taxpayer bailout in the next few years, which will dwarf the banks bailouts, since money to the USPS will never be paid back. It’s all totally predictable, given collapsing revenue.”

more...
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/05/12/quarterly-loss-postal-service-licks-wounds/?test=latestnews

[Tom]

Prepare for backlash......:eek:

[Robert Goren]

What is the alternative? $5 letters from Fed Ex. UPS has screwed up so many of my deliveries that I don't do business with companies that insist on using them anymore.

[GaryG]

I am pretty sure that retired postal workers get free healthcare for life. If so, this sets them apart from other gov agencies like the VA where retirees pay their own way.

[Tom]

What is the alternative? $5 letters from Fed Ex. UPS has screwed up so many of my deliveries that I don't do business with companies that insist on using them anymore.

Get rid of the antiquated USPS and allow Fed Ex and UPS to take over the markets and watch the prices drop.

Always a good alternative - make those who use the service pay the costs - not taxpayers. Tax money going to the USPS is just wrong.

[cj's dad]

Residential mail needs to be delivered every other day, not daily.

Week 1 - M-W-Fr.
Week 2 - Tu.-Th. Sat.
Repeat.

Most mail I receive is unwanted junk mail. All bills but one are paid on line.

What is the necessity for daily mail delivery ?

[Tape Reader]

I see a huge tax coming on internet, email, users to subsidize the Post Office. I expect the "bright" idea will come from a Liberal Democrat.

[Hanover1]

Get rid of the antiquated USPS and allow Fed Ex and UPS to take over the markets and watch the prices drop.

Always a good alternative - make those who use the service pay the costs - not taxpayers. Tax money going to the USPS is just wrong.

After discussing merits of closing a local branch with USPS reps and local politicians, I was informed that UPS is the largest customer OF USPS. They are so overwhelmed that they have outsourced to USPS for the better part of the last 20 years. Gonna get costly no matter how you slice this pie.....

[Marshall Bennett]

Most mail I receive is unwanted junk mail.
I read an interesting article regarding junk mail a while back. One suggestion was to write "return to sender" on the junk and send it back. I began doing this a couple weeks ago. Direct TV sends a damn 2 page ad almost weekly with my name and address plastered all over it. They were the first on my return list. Don't know yet if this idea works, but figured it's worth a try.

[Tom]

After discussing merits of closing a local branch with USPS reps and local politicians, I was informed that UPS is the largest customer OF USPS. They are so overwhelmed that they have outsourced to USPS for the better part of the last 20 years. Gonna get costly no matter how you slice this pie.....

That's ok. Most mail is junk anyways.
And the junnkier it is, the less they charge to carry it!

[ArlJim78]

it's insanity to pay people good money to come to your place of residence on a daily basis and stuff your mailbox with papers that your remove and immediately toss in the garbage.

[Bettowin]

Twice a week delivery is enough for me. Pickup locations every day for urgent letters but not at every freaking house.

[Robert Goren]

it's insanity to pay people good money to come to your place of residence on a daily basis and stuff your mailbox with papers that your remove and immediately toss in the garbage.It stuff that you throw in the garbage that makes them money. They lose money hand over fist on things like birthday cards.

[canleakid]

We need to cut back to just M-W-F mail service, that would save a alot of money, NO overtime for any one!!!!

and on Tuesdays and Thursdays only Cliff Cavin, Newman & Lovable Truly could work at the post office :lol: :lol: :D :faint:

[Tom]

It stuff that you throw in the garbage that makes them money. They lose money hand over fist on things like birthday cards.

Then we do not need a post office at all.

[mostpost]

I am pretty sure that retired postal workers get free healthcare for life. If so, this sets them apart from other gov agencies like the VA where retirees pay their own way.
You are pretty sure wrong. There is a monthly deduction from my retirement check for my health insurance.

[mostpost]

Get rid of the antiquated USPS and allow Fed Ex and UPS to take over the markets and watch the prices drop.

Always a good alternative - make those who use the service pay the costs - not taxpayers. Tax money going to the USPS is just wrong.
From Newts post starting this thread.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...test=latestnews

pertinent excerpt.
For one thing, they say, the USPS receives no taxpayer funding. The friendly neighborhood postman, the mail sorter at the post office, the cashier ringing up the stamp purchases – none of them are government employees. Instead, USPS and its full-time staff of 520,000 – slashed by some 20 percent over just the last three years – survives entirely on revenue derived from its sale of goods and services.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/05/12/quarterly-loss-postal-service-licks-wounds/#ixzz1MGBkOmL4

[mostpost]

Residential mail needs to be delivered every other day, not daily.

Week 1 - M-W-Fr.
Week 2 - Tu.-Th. Sat.
Repeat.

Most mail I receive is unwanted junk mail. All bills but one are paid on line.

What is the necessity for daily mail delivery ?
Do you guys think before you post? Go and ask your local businesses how they feel about three day a week delivery. Then ask them how they feel about two day a week delivery on alternate weeks. Eliminate Saturday delivery, yes, but your idea is just dumb.

[Bettowin]

Do you guys think before you post? Go and ask your local businesses how they feel about three day a week delivery. Then ask them how they feel about two day a week delivery on alternate weeks. Eliminate Saturday delivery, yes, but your idea is just dumb.


I don't think the USPS delivers anything to businesses or individuals that can't wait one day. UPS and Fed Ex are used for overnight delivery in 100% of the businesses I come into contact with on a daily basis.

[mostpost]

I read an interesting article regarding junk mail a while back. One suggestion was to write "return to sender" on the junk and send it back. I began doing this a couple weeks ago. Direct TV sends a damn 2 page ad almost weekly with my name and address plastered all over it. They were the first on my return list. Don't know yet if this idea works, but figured it's worth a try.

Unless that mail has an endorsement such as address correction requested, etc. all that does is make more work for the mailman. Pieces without such an endorsement are thrown in the garbage by USPS. In fact, unless it is first class mail or has such an endorsement, the carrier is not required to take it out of your box.

Here is another thing I don't understand. I keep hearing you guys say we can't raise taxes on businesses because all that means is that they will pass the costs on to the consumer. Yet here you are proposing an action which will increase their costs. :confused:

[mostpost]

We need to cut back to just M-W-F mail service, that would save a alot of money, NO overtime for any one!!!!

I asked earlier if you guys think before you post. You have given me my answer.
NO!!!

You expect a carrier to deliver three days worth of mail on Monday and two days worth on Wednesday and Friday and do it without using overtime? Are you nuts?
Take a look at what time your mail arrives on the day after a holiday as compared to a normal day. You have no clue about what it takes to be a carrier :mad: :mad:



.

[BlueShoe]

Prepare for backlash......:eek:
Mosty was late showing up today, it took him until post #16 to jump in, but now he is making up for it with a late blitz. :D

[Bettowin]

We need to cut back to just M-W-F mail service, that would save a alot of money, NO overtime for any one!!!!

I asked earlier if you guys think before you post. You have given me my answer.
NO!!!

You expect a carrier to deliver three days worth of mail on Monday and two days worth on Wednesday and Friday and do it without using overtime? Are you nuts?
Take a look at what time your mail arrives on the day after a holiday as compared to a normal day. You have no clue about what it takes to be a carrier :mad: :mad:



.


Give us a break. The UPS and Fed Ex delivery people run circles around letter carriers. Cush job if you ask me. Delivering newspapers as a 12 year old, now that was tough work.

[Hanover1]

They are going to close 2000 branches around the US. See if that helps.....rural folks on fixed incomes will travel many miles in instances to get mail in the future. The business model is broken beyond repair?

[mostpost]

Give us a break. The UPS and Fed Ex delivery people run circles around letter carriers. Cush job if you ask me. Delivering newspapers as a 12 year old, now that was tough work.
It takes Fed Ex until Aug. 17 to deliver as many pieces as USPS delivers on Jan.2. It takes UPS over two years. BTW I have no problems with the UPS driver who services our area. Deliveries are on schedule and left in a safe place if I am not at home. My problem is with the people who think UPS can do a better job than USPS when they don't do the same thing and they don't do as much of it.

I wish I had the power to put you on a route for a month during a Chicago winter. You would quickly change your tune about what a cush job it was.

[ArlJim78]

good point, only a postal worker would know what its like to work in a Chicago winter.

[ArlJim78]

They are going to close 2000 branches around the US. See if that helps.....rural folks on fixed incomes will travel many miles in instances to get mail in the future. The business model is broken beyond repair?
yes the business model is broken and anyone with common sense can see that. Unfortunately there is no mechanism and no incentive within the entity to make the necessary changes. In the private sector the whole thing would have went through bankruptcy already, new management and new contracts put in place, the whole scope of operations revalued and re-engineered for efficiency.

[newtothegame]

First off, I want to apologize to MOsty....this thread was not to be, nor for him to defend. The guy was a government postal worker till retirement. I personally am happy for him. Can't fault him for working within the system.
So Mosty....this thread was in no way directed at you.....Although I do appreciate your feedback as someone who knows the inner workings.

Personally, I am in management at a major corporation. There is NO mail that we have to get daily. We would be just fine with a M-W-F type operation. And we would adjust to the rest. Most of our corespondence is now done through email anyways.

As a home owner, again, there is NO mail that I have to get daily. M-W-F would be just fine.

Mosty....I disagree that that post office gets no tax funding. It may not directly come from there but in some fashion or form I would think thats where it is derived from. What other revenue does the government have to pay for its services? I mean look at Amtrak...another huge loss to the tax payer that will be subsidized by tax dollars in one fashion or form..

As to your comments about UPS and FED ex. they dont deliver as much because they DONT have too. They allow USPS to take the loss in those categories. The free market system would rectify those problems if the USPS was to close.....on that you can be sure of.
I am still amazed that I can send a letter across the country, for a mere 44 cents. Its not hard to see why the USPS losses money. And thats just one facet.
Personally, I would notify ALL businesses, and residents that as of (6 months from now), the USPS would either 1. be raising rates significantly to become profitable, or 2 be closing effective that date.
Businesses would turn around and make the necessary decisions to accomodate the business. Billing companies would have to change dates on sending corespondance to maybe three weeks on statements versus two.
It really doesnt seem that hard of a decision.
Sorry, but ANY unprofitable business, government or otherwise, needs to go out!

[Robert Goren]

I don't think the USPS delivers anything to businesses or individuals that can't wait one day. UPS and Fed Ex are used for overnight delivery in 100% of the businesses I come into contact with on a daily basis. I agree. I did talk to a postman about this. He said when ever there is a holiday, he has several small mom and pop businesses on his route that bitch to high heaven about waiting an extra day to get their mail. I can certainly wait, but I am not running business.

[mostpost]

First off, I want to apologize to MOsty....this thread was not to be, nor for him to defend. The guy was a government postal worker till retirement. I personally am happy for him. Can't fault him for working within the system.
So Mosty....this thread was in no way directed at you.....Although I do appreciate your feedback as someone who knows the inner workings.
Don't worry. I am not that sensitive.

Personally, I am in management at a major corporation. There is NO mail that we have to get daily. We would be just fine with a M-W-F type operation. And we would adjust to the rest. Most of our corespondence is now done through email anyways.

That may be true at your company, but the article that YOU posted said this.
Yet USPS handled roughly 170 billion pieces of mail last year, including payments mailed from people and companies worth an estimated $10 trillion – meaning hard-copy mail remains a vital element in the U.S. economy, and isn’t about to vanish.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/05/12/quarterly-loss-postal-service-licks-wounds/#ixzz1MIYF2wRb

As a home owner, again, there is NO mail that I have to get daily. M-W-F would be just fine.
I would be fine with that too. I just don't think it is practical from a logistical standpoint.

Mosty....I disagree that that post office gets no tax funding. It may not directly come from there but in some fashion or form I would think thats where it is derived from. What other revenue does the government have to pay for its services? I mean look at Amtrak...another huge loss to the tax payer that will be subsidized by tax dollars in one fashion or form..

It is true that the Post Office gets no tax funding. Almost. The government does subsidize the free mail for the blind service. That is a tiny, tiny part of the overall mail service. USPS pays its expenses by selling postage and services. By services I mean things like certified mail, registered mail, money orders etc. We also sell certain packaging products. If that does not cover our expenses we have to borrow and pay back

As to your comments about UPS and FED ex. they dont deliver as much because they DONT have too. They allow USPS to take the loss in those categories. The free market system would rectify those problems if the USPS was to close.....on that you can be sure of.

I love your blind faith in the free market system. Is that the same free market system that almost put General Motors out of business? The one that nearly crashed the financial system?

I can tell you how Fedex and UPS would solve the problem of a deficit. They would shut down unprofitable routes. Maybe one of those routes would service your home. You said you could live with three day a week delivery. Could you live with no day a week delivery.
I am still amazed that I can send a letter across the country, for a mere 44 cents. Its not hard to see why the USPS losses money. And thats just one facet.
Personally, I would notify ALL businesses, and residents that as of (6 months from now), the USPS would either 1. be raising rates significantly to become profitable, or 2 be closing effective that date.

You really need to rethink that idea.
Businesses would turn around and make the necessary decisions to accomodate the business. Billing companies would have to change dates on sending corespondance to maybe three weeks on statements versus two.
It really doesnt seem that hard of a decision.

Are you planning on passing a law that businesses must increase the lead time on payments? Because if you are not, and I decide to allow my customers three weeks to pay instead of two, then what do I do when my supplier demands his money in two weeks?
Sorry, but ANY unprofitable business, government or otherwise, needs to go out!

No. There are services that should exist for the common good. Hospitals used to be non-profit. When we started getting for profit hospitals is when our problems began. Mail delivery should not be profitable. Amtrak should be non profit. Amtrak is non profit come to think of it!

I'm not saying we shouldn't make every effort to make these enterprises self sustaining. I think we should employ every business efficiency we can. But, in the end, there are things which are too important to let die.

[newtothegame]

Originally Posted by newtothegame
First off, I want to apologize to MOsty....this thread was not to be, nor for him to defend. The guy was a government postal worker till retirement. I personally am happy for him. Can't fault him for working within the system.
So Mosty....this thread was in no way directed at you.....Although I do appreciate your feedback as someone who knows the inner workings.
Don't worry. I am not that sensitive.

Personally, I am in management at a major corporation. There is NO mail that we have to get daily. We would be just fine with a M-W-F type operation. And we would adjust to the rest. Most of our corespondence is now done through email anyways.

That may be true at your company, but the article that YOU posted said this.
Yet USPS handled roughly 170 billion pieces of mail last year, including payments mailed from people and companies worth an estimated $10 trillion – meaning hard-copy mail remains a vital element in the U.S. economy, and isn’t about to vanish.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201.../#ixzz1MIYF2wRb (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/05/12/quarterly-loss-postal-service-licks-wounds/#ixzz1MIYF2wRb)

As a home owner, again, there is NO mail that I have to get daily. M-W-F would be just fine.
I would be fine with that too. I just don't think it is practical from a logistical standpoint.

Mosty....I disagree that that post office gets no tax funding. It may not directly come from there but in some fashion or form I would think thats where it is derived from. What other revenue does the government have to pay for its services? I mean look at Amtrak...another huge loss to the tax payer that will be subsidized by tax dollars in one fashion or form..

It is true that the Post Office gets no tax funding. Almost. The government does subsidize the free mail for the blind service. That is a tiny, tiny part of the overall mail service. USPS pays its expenses by selling postage and services. By services I mean things like certified mail, registered mail, money orders etc. We also sell certain packaging products. If that does not cover our expenses we have to borrow and pay back

As to your comments about UPS and FED ex. they dont deliver as much because they DONT have too. They allow USPS to take the loss in those categories. The free market system would rectify those problems if the USPS was to close.....on that you can be sure of.

I love your blind faith in the free market system. Is that the same free market system that almost put General Motors out of business? The one that nearly crashed the financial system?

I can tell you how Fedex and UPS would solve the problem of a deficit. They would shut down unprofitable routes. Maybe one of those routes would service your home. You said you could live with three day a week delivery. Could you live with no day a week delivery.
I am still amazed that I can send a letter across the country, for a mere 44 cents. Its not hard to see why the USPS losses money. And thats just one facet.
Personally, I would notify ALL businesses, and residents that as of (6 months from now), the USPS would either 1. be raising rates significantly to become profitable, or 2 be closing effective that date.

You really need to rethink that idea.
Businesses would turn around and make the necessary decisions to accomodate the business. Billing companies would have to change dates on sending corespondance to maybe three weeks on statements versus two.
It really doesnt seem that hard of a decision.

Are you planning on passing a law that businesses must increase the lead time on payments? Because if you are not, and I decide to allow my customers three weeks to pay instead of two, then what do I do when my supplier demands his money in two weeks?
Sorry, but ANY unprofitable business, government or otherwise, needs to go out!


Mosty...of course the USP handled that much......Hell for 44 cents, why wouldnt people use that? Now I know not all mail is that rate...but, if a company can save money by using a certain service over another, they will!
Point is that if the USP raised their rates, (even if just enough to break even)
wouldnt that be a plus???
Lets see...170 billion pieces handled.......losses equal about 8.8 billion (4x this qtrs loss)...if my math is correct, that would mean raising each piece just a nickle and they break even.
8.8 billion / 170 billion pieces = .05........
Seems like simple math to me. Now I know thats not the end all be all...but seriously, this cant be that hard.

next, you say its "not logistical"...seems to me with the number of employees, (even if staying the same), reducing the delivery days by 40%....I dont see how its not logistical. Companies and people adapt. Thats what companies do ...thats also why the post office and amtrak are in trouble.

Any mail that has to be there next day or in hours....is being used in email now anyways. If its a certified letter, or package...then use USPS or UPS. Just ensure its profitable.

Lastly, I wouldnt be so quick to use GM as a model to judge the free market system lol. Are you really sure you wish to use them??? There is nothing in UNIONS that equates to "free market". Becareful about going down that slope.;) ;)

[Marshall Bennett]

Unless that mail has an endorsement such as address correction requested, etc. all that does is make more work for the mailman. Pieces without such an endorsement are thrown in the garbage by USPS. In fact, unless it is first class mail or has such an endorsement, the carrier is not required to take it out of your box.

Thanks Most. I believe what you're saying and will discontinue this practice. Any ideas on slowing down the amount of junk mail I receive would be appreciated.

[mostpost]

Thanks Most. I believe what you're saying and will discontinue this practice. Any ideas on slowing down the amount of junk mail I receive would be appreciated.

There is a form you can fill out at your local post office. They will send that form to a National association of mailing houses. (The people that process most of the junk mail you receive) Your name will be taken off the mailing lists. I'm sorry I don't recall the name of the form. It is going to take awhile for them to process this form and it will not eliminate junk mail entirely but it will eliminate most of it.

Now this is the way it worked when I retired six years ago and I am assuming it still is.

[mostpost]

Mosty...of course the USP handled that much......Hell for 44 cents, why wouldnt people use that? Now I know not all mail is that rate...but, if a company can save money by using a certain service over another, they will!
Point is that if the USP raised their rates, (even if just enough to break even)
wouldnt that be a plus???
Lets see...170 billion pieces handled.......losses equal about 8.8 billion (4x this qtrs loss)...if my math is correct, that would mean raising each piece just a nickle and they break even.
8.8 billion / 170 billion pieces = .05........
Seems like simple math to me. Now I know thats not the end all be all...but seriously, this cant be that hard.

Have you read the complaints that ensue when the Post Office raises rates by even one or two cents? Imagine what they would be if you raised them by a nickel. You are correct that most mail is not 44 cents. Little of it is . Just think of the mail your receive. I'm thinking that for every first class letter you get, you get ten or more pieces of junk mail. I am not sure of the current rates for junk mail, but I believe a five cent raise in postage would be a 15% to 20% increase. Every time we raise rates we lose business. So raising rates is not the answer. What is?

Go back and read the article you posted. It identifies three problems facing USPS.

One is Saturday delivery. Eliminating Saturday delivery would save $3b a year and would not significantly impact business. I proposed earlier on this board that USPS eliminate Saturday delivery, but a business would have the option of paying an annual fee to have its mail delivered on Saturday.

Of course the union is opposed to this, but I think they may have to give up some jobs to save all jobs.

The second problem is how USPS is required by law to fund its pension plan. I am not sure of the exact numbers on this, but USPS is required to have sufficient money in its pension fund to pay retirees thirty or forty years into the future. This means over $40B is sitting in an account doing nothing but waiting for someone to claim it 30 years down the road. And each year another $5.5B is added to keep the account current. Eliminating that$5.5B payment would save $5.5B. Both these things require Congressional approval which so far is not forthcoming.




next, you say its "not logistical"...seems to me with the number of employees, (even if staying the same), reducing the delivery days by 40%....I dont see how its not logistical. Companies and people adapt. Thats what companies do ...thats also why the post office and amtrak are in trouble.

Any mail that has to be there next day or in hours....is being used in email now anyways. If its a certified letter, or package...then use USPS or UPS. Just ensure its profitable.

If you reduce the delivery days and don't reduce the number of employees, what's the point? Yes there will be savings in vehicle costs and gasoline but that is a small part of USPS expenses.

And what about those workers? Do you tell them to only come in three days a week? They have contracts guaranteeing them a forty hour week. If you start delivery the same amount of mail in half the time it can't be done. You will need to use overtime. Eliminating Saturday delivery makes some sense. Eliminating two more days does not.
Lastly, I wouldnt be so quick to use GM as a model to judge the free market system lol. Are you really sure you wish to use them??? There is nothing in UNIONS that equates to "free market". Becareful about going down that slope.

Unions exist. They are part of the free market system. A business owner has to deal with them just as he has to deal with the electric company, his suppliers, freight companies and any other service necessary to run his business. Deal with it.

[Tom]

I 'm not saying we shouldn't make every effort to make these enterprises self sustaining. I think we should employ every business efficiency we can. But, in the end, there are things which are too important to let die.

What in the world could be more important than not losing money?
You fail to mention that when YOUR important stuff prevents a profit, your rely on US to pay the difference. not very ethical of you.

Better to close ALL those that cannot cut it on their own and allow the unions to find you other employment. The laws of economics exist, and you have to deal with it ( to quasi-quote you in this thread)

No way we would not all survive if there were no USPS. I vote we find out how.

[chickenhead]

I pay 90% my bills online, and get online statements. I think my water and garbage are the only ones that show up at this point -- I've whittled it down to as few as possible. I still get some magazines. But obviously things are trending to where in 20 years the average residential customer will not receive paper bills or pay by mail, the important piece of mail is going to become maybe 1 or 2 days a month event, if that. I believe this will largely be true for business customers as well, in one form or another. The relevance of the postal service in 20 years will be dramatically below what it is now. Still necessary to move things around, but ever fewer things being moved around that people actually care about.

I think the post office does for the most part provide a good service for a good price. But technology says that they have some very serious challenges going for them -- it is already happening now, but it will even more so in the future. What changes they need to make is interesting because most of what they do is junk mail and catalogues -- that they become increasingly irrelevant to most people may not matter to their bottom line or what it makes sense for them to do. They are staffed up not for us, but for the advertising industry. But obviously they need to tend their bottom line and be self sustaining.

[chickenhead]

btw -- if the Post Office was smart (or more flexible) they could have tried to be the online transactional payment database platform between customers and business -- sort of a secure email/document delivery platform with payment built in. They understand identity and real location already -- they have a huge amount of consumer trust (compared to some online startup)....they have a preexisiting relationship with every business in the country...I would have put heavy money on them vs anyone if they understood the market.

goes back to the innovators dillema and not wanting to cannabilize your own existing business I guess, but the Postal Service could have crushed anyone and become the central hub of all "important" online communication and payment fairly easily. No fraud, no spam, everyone verified and authorized. Could have been awesome. They could probably still make a hell of a go at it, it's still something we need. Email spam and fraud is such a huge issue and will only get worse -- if done right the Postal Service Online could have the immediate stamp of authority. Email would go back to only being cat pictures, and lunatic political chain emails. The important stuff could all move over to a more secure, more transactional platform. Email spam and fraud would quit working, because people would assume anything sent via email was bogus.

[newtothegame]

Unions exist. They are part of the free market system. A business owner has to deal with them just as he has to deal with the electric company, his suppliers, freight companies and any other service necessary to run his business. Deal with it.

The american public across the U.S is....
But, just as you tell me to "deal with it"....., I suggest you take your advice and when things happen like in WI, no crying...JUST DEAL WITH IT!!!:lol:

[cj's dad]

Do you guys think before you post? Go and ask your local businesses how they feel about three day a week delivery. Then ask them how they feel about two day a week delivery on alternate weeks. Eliminate Saturday delivery, yes, but your idea is just dumb.

I'm pretty sure my post had the word "RESIDENTIAL" leading off.

Your lack of reading ability is beyond dumb Cliff !!

[Tom]

Originally Posted by mostpost
Do you guys think before you post?

Do you? :lol:

[ArlJim78]

Unions exist. They are part of the free market system. A business owner has to deal with them just as he has to deal with the electric company, his suppliers, freight companies and any other service necessary to run his business. Deal with it.
unions do not provide a necessary service to the business owner. what unions offer are unwelcome increases in fixed costs. in this country they only survive due to government intervention, so no they are not part of the free market system because in a free market those companies would fail.

[Tom]

unions do not provide a necessary service to the business owner.

Great point! Unions do NOT provide anything of value to a business. They are a cost with no reward. ANY busniness would improve if their union went away.

[HUSKER55]

TIME FOR TAXPAYERS TO GET VERY ACTIVE.

[newtothegame]

Mail carrier who defecated in yard gets to keep job

By KATU.com Staff Published: May 26, 2011 at 11:20 AM PDT

PORTLAND, Ore. - A mail carrier who was caught using a yard as his personal toilet will not be fired.

The incident happened last month at a home in southeast Portland and a neighbor, Don Derfler, captured the man in the act with his camera.
Derfler had been waiting for his babysitter when he saw his mailman acting odd at his neighbor's house across the street. The postal worker then pulled down his pants and that's when Derfler began snapping pictures.

"We trust people like the postal service and meter readers and people of that nature," Derfler told us when we interviewed him in April. "To come on to our property and to defecate - it's just wrong."

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/122672324.html#13064589878421&if_height=255

I am amazed he wont be fired!!!!! lol Delivered more then the mail even...hell mosty might give him a raise for going "above and byond" lol:lol:

[mostpost]

Mail carrier who defecated in yard gets to keep job

By KATU.com Staff Published: May 26, 2011 at 11:20 AM PDT

PORTLAND, Ore. - A mail carrier who was caught using a yard as his personal toilet will not be fired.

The incident happened last month at a home in southeast Portland and a neighbor, Don Derfler, captured the man in the act with his camera.
Derfler had been waiting for his babysitter when he saw his mailman acting odd at his neighbor's house across the street. The postal worker then pulled down his pants and that's when Derfler began snapping pictures.

"We trust people like the postal service and meter readers and people of that nature," Derfler told us when we interviewed him in April. "To come on to our property and to defecate - it's just wrong."

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/122672324.html#13064589878421&if_height=255

I am amazed he wont be fired!!!!! lol Delivered more then the mail even...hell mosty might give him a raise for going "above and byond" lol:lol:


I have a worse story, and it happened at the office I work at. One of the carriers felt the urgent call of nature while on his route. He defecated on a newspaper in the hallway of an apartment building, wrapped the paper up and hid it behind a potted plant. Unfortunately for him someone saw him through a peephole and reported him. This is the same carrier who went missing one day. When the supervisor went to look for him he found the carrier hiding in a convenience store and refusing to come out because of the large animal prowling near the collection box. The "large animal" was a backhoe that a road crew had left at the end of their workday. And those were two of the more normal things this carrier did. He was fired.

As to the carrier in the story, is it possible that he was ill and unable to control his functions. Maybe he had food poisoning from his lunch. I have had food poisoning and I would not wish it on anyone. The fact that he was not disciplined indicates there is more to the story than reported here.

One of the big problems of being a letter carrier is finding a place to go to the bathroom. Businesses will usually let you use theirs, but on some routes businesses are few and far between.

Not saying what he did was right unless illness was involved.

[mostpost]

Mail carrier who defecated in yard gets to keep job

By KATU.com Staff Published: May 26, 2011 at 11:20 AM PDT

PORTLAND, Ore. - A mail carrier who was caught using a yard as his personal toilet will not be fired.

The incident happened last month at a home in southeast Portland and a neighbor, Don Derfler, captured the man in the act with his camera.
Derfler had been waiting for his babysitter when he saw his mailman acting odd at his neighbor's house across the street. The postal worker then pulled down his pants and that's when Derfler began snapping pictures.

"We trust people like the postal service and meter readers and people of that nature," Derfler told us when we interviewed him in April. "To come on to our property and to defecate - it's just wrong."

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/122672324.html#13064589878421&if_height=255

I am amazed he wont be fired!!!!! lol Delivered more then the mail even...hell mosty might give him a raise for going "above and byond" lol:lol:


Two words: Crohn's disease. Look it up. If this carrier had Crohn's disease he was powerless to stop nature in its course.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Two words: Crohn's disease. Look it up. If this carrier had Crohn's disease he was powerless to stop nature in its course.

Wow. I thought the post about the "crappy" mail delivery was sort of funny. I figured your reply would be lighthearted... instead you speculate that he has Crohn's Disease...

I thought that you won all of these wars with the foolish, moronic cons by bullying them with facts and devastating analysis of those truths? :D

[mostpost]

Wow. I thought the post about the "crappy" mail delivery was sort of funny. I figured your reply would be lighthearted... instead you speculate that he has Crohn's Disease...

I thought that you won all of these wars with the foolish, moronic cons by bullying them with facts and devastating analysis of those truths? :D
It wasn't funny because it embarrassed a carrier who may have had no control over what he did. Newt thought the guy should have been fired without asking if illness might have been involved. When I googled the story I came across comments at Free Thinker that the carrier was black, even though nothing about his race was mentioned in the story. I was also told that this all happened because he was a member of a union.

At Democratic underground the prevailing feeling was that the guy taking the pictures was a pervert and the carrier should sue for invasion of privacy.

One of those site suggested Crohn's and as I know two people with Crohn's it seems a logical possibility.

As to your last sentence. Yes, I do. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[bigmack]

At Democratic underground the prevailing feeling was that the guy taking the pictures was a pervert and the carrier should sue for invasion of privacy.
One of those site suggested Crohn's and as I know two people with Crohn's it seems a logical possibility.
It's been known for a spell your 'views' have been pastiche, via DU.

Tough place to spend any time. The smell permeates.

Hey! How 'bout your the Workin' Man's Hero - Fargo Ed?

Aint it a hoot to think about all that BS yap of angry rhetoric after the Tuscon shooting now that the shooter has been declared a psychotic? All that "Palin Target" idiocy is now officially, IDIOCY. Do me a fav; ax hcap about wingnuts and grasping for straws on stories? :rolleyes:

Now Eddie calling a woman a slut. Walk tall, mosty. You're swimin' with a Baby Ruth.

[HUSKER55]

if your union is so great then he should trade jobs with someone at the plant.

[Robert Goren]

Two words: Crohn's disease. Look it up. If this carrier had Crohn's disease he was powerless to stop nature in its course.I have Crohn's. I can tell you the first thing you do when you have Crohn's whenever you enter a new place is check where the rest rooms are. When people just came down with it they try to keep their old jobs. Very often this not possible and if it is often major adjustments need to made. You need a very understanding employer. I had one when I was first diagnosed, but the city changed contractors and the new one was not. I see no way that someone with Crohn's could continue to be a Postal Route Carrier.

[Tom]

When I was younger, the first I did when I walked into a bar was scout out the babes. Nowadays, I scout out the rest room.

[mostpost]

It's been known for a spell your 'views' have been pastiche, via DU.

Tough place to spend any time. The smell permeates.

Hey! How 'bout your the Workin' Man's Hero - Fargo Ed?

Aint it a hoot to think about all that BS yap of angry rhetoric after the Tuscon shooting now that the shooter has been declared a psychotic? All that "Palin Target" idiocy is now officially, IDIOCY. Do me a fav; ax hcap about wingnuts and grasping for straws on stories? :rolleyes:

Now Eddie calling a woman a slut. Walk tall, mosty. You're swimin' with a Baby Ruth.
I know. I understand the sluts are picketing MSNBC.

[GaryG]

Lucky for the defecating civil servant that the incident happened in Oregon. In other parts of the country the homeowner's response might have been a bit more aggressive than taking a picture.

[HUSKER55]

actually one day a week would be good enough. Seriously, how much mail do you get everyday that could not wait 4 days?

I bank online and get most of my bills online. The two that I get in the mail give me 30 days.

In our neighborhood that is fairly typical.

[newtothegame]

Broke: U.S. Postal Service Suspends Retirement Contributions

WASHINGTON (AP) — The financially troubled Postal Service is suspending its employer contribution to the Federal Employee Retirement System.

The agency said Wednesday it is acting to conserve cash as it continues to lose money. It was $8 billion in the red last year because of the combined effects of the recession and the switch of much mail business to the Internet. It faces the possibility of running short of money by the end of this fiscal year in September.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/broke-u-s-postal-service-suspends-retirement-contributions/

[HUSKER55]

time to downsize

[RaceBookJoe]

Lots of talk about changes to the USPS on CNBC at the moment. rbj

[boxcar]

good point, only a postal worker would know what its like to work in a Chicago winter.

Seems to me that the punishment fits the crime. :lol: :lol:

Boxcar

[canleakid]

Post office releases list of nearly 3,700 closings :eek:
Times They Are a-Changin'
It is the first step, but you to start now


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Post-office-releases-list-of-cnnm-2977380251.html?x=0

[WaHoo]

Post office releases list of nearly 3,700 closings :eek:
Times They Are a-Changin'
It is the first step, but you to start now


They're wanting to close our little post office, because they lose money.
i wonder why, they have 90 po boxes rented, the lady that retired last year
was making $26 an hour, the relief gets $20 hr.
We had a meeting asked why can't the guy that delivers mail to the post office,
put the mail up, he can't because he's contract for the highway only.
We can get a PO Box in Ada 30 miles north is what they suggested or put
a Box on the highway, But my address would change to Ada.

PS- I heard at the post office every time Mostie's name is brought up
the guys go out and get Drunk , who would think they could celebrate this long. :lol: :lol:

[canleakid]

The letter telling the Post Office that they are a "little" behind in the world of
communications got LOST in the MAIL :D

[Actor]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Post Office needs permission from Congress to raise the price of a stamp. It probably operates under other restrictions designed to keep it from being competitive. If unencumbered by such there is no reason the PO could not compete with FedEx and UPS.

[newtothegame]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Post Office needs permission from Congress to raise the price of a stamp. It probably operates under other restrictions designed to keep it from being competitive. If unencumbered by such there is no reason the PO could not compete with FedEx and UPS.

You mean "unencumbered" such as NON union??? :lol:

[Actor]

You mean "unencumbered" such as NON union??? :lol:

I mean a level playing field, a simple enough concept.

[Tom]

I mean a level playing field, a simple enough concept.

What is not level about it?

[Actor]

What is not level about it?

As I said, the Post Office needs the permission of Congress to raise the price of it's services, something Congress never does until the PO is far in the red. UPS and FedEx suffer no such impediment. Is that a level playing field?

[newtothegame]

Ut Oh.....
Those damn union guys attempting to lay more people off....!!! Ohh wait, it's the post office...well same difference!


USPS proposes cutting 120,000 jobs, pulling out of health-care plan

By Joe Davidson (http://www.washingtonpost.com/joe-davidson/2011/03/02/ABXUQ7M_page.html), Published: August 11

In an attempt to stem its financial hemorrhaging, the U.S. Postal Service is seeking to reduce its workforce by 20 percent, including through layoffs now prohibited by union contracts. USPS also wants to withdraw its employees from the health and retirement plans that cover federal staffers and create its own benefit programs for postal employees.

This major restructuring of the Postal Service’s relationship with its workforce would need congressional approval and would face fierce opposition from postal unions. But if approved, eliminating contract provisions that prevent layoffs and quitting the federal employee health and retirement programs could have ramifications for workers across the government and throughout the national’s labor movement.

In a notice to employees informing them of its proposals, with the headline “Financial crisis calls for significant actions,” the Postal Service said “we will be insolvent next month due to significant declines in mail volume and retiree health benefit prefunding costs imposed by Congress.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/usps-proposes-cutting-120000-jobs-pulling-out-of-health-care-plan/2011/08/11/gIQAZxIM9I_print.html

[Actor]

I am pretty sure that retired postal workers get free healthcare for life. If so, this sets them apart from other gov agencies like the VA where retirees pay their own way.
Not true. Retired Postal workers participate in the same health plans that active and retired civil service workers participate in, and they are not free.

[canleakid]

the sooner the better
http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/09/07/rushkoff.jobs.obsolete/index.html

[Native Texan III]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Post Office needs permission from Congress to raise the price of a stamp. It probably operates under other restrictions designed to keep it from being competitive. If unencumbered by such there is no reason the PO could not compete with FedEx and UPS.

According to this guy you are absolutely right.
"Basically, the post office is always broke because it’s "legally" required to be broke."

"How to solve the Post Office’s problems?

I have no management expertise but about fifteen years ago I did some work on a project for the Postal Service, and I remember noticing some structural problems back then:

Everyone would always get annoyed about the way the price of a first class stamp would go up in awkward increments, from 29 cents to 32 cents to 33 cents to 34 cents etc. Why couldn’t they just jump to the next round number (for example, 35 cents) and keep it there for a few years? The answer, I was told, was that the Postal Service was trapped by a bunch of rules. They were required to price everything exactly at cost. If they charged too much for first class mail, then UPS and Fed-Ex would sue and say the PO was illegally cross-subsidizing their bulk mail. If they charged too little, then the publishers and junk mailers would sue. Maybe I’m getting the details wrong here but that was the basic idea. There was actually a system of postal courts (it probably still exists) to adjudicate these fights. Basically, the post office is always broke because it’s legally required to be broke. It’s not like other utilities which are regulated in a gentle way to allow them to make profits. Looking at this from a political direction, things must somehow be set up so that the Postal Service’s customers have more clout than the Postal Service itself. I don’t really have a sense of why this would happen for mail more than for gas, electricity, water, etc."

http://andrewgelman.com/2011/09/how-to-solve-the-post-office%e2%80%99s-problems/

[mostpost]

Not true. Retired Postal workers participate in the same health plans that active and retired civil service workers participate in, and they are not free.

You are fairly new here. After a while you will find that there are certain conservative beliefs that no amount of debunking will ever eliminate. This matter of free health care that GaryG talks about is one that I have debunked several times. It will pop up again soon,
BTW retired congressmen do not get free health care either. And Obama is a natural born citizen. And Global Warming is caused by ma.....oh never mind. :bang: :bang:

[bigmack]

Global Warming is caused by ma.....oh never mind.
Figures. You nuts want so much to blame 'man' for something, you're willing to finger your own ma for GW.

Global warming. What a laugh.

[boxcar]

Figures. You nuts want so much to blame 'man' for something, you're willing to finger your own ma for GW.

Global warming. What a laugh.

Mosty, you are totally classless. You have thrown your own mother -- the woman who birthed you in much pain -- under the bus in the name of the First Green Church of Environmentalism. So much for the commandment: "Honor thy father and thy mother..., eh? :rolleyes:

Boxcar