Hyperbaric Oxygen Chambers

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Hyperbaric Oxygen Chambers are being used by horsemen throughout the thoroughbred and standardbred industry. The biggest claim to fame is that it promotes healing, but it is also said to be a performance enhancer.

The excess oxygen can possibly mask other drugs as well.

NYRA has banned the use of chambers within 7 days of a race. I'm not sure if any other jurisdictions are following this lead.

Oxygen is a naturally produced, so it is hard to call it a drug, and I don't think excess oxygen is tested for anywhere.


Here is a claim made by Equineox Technologies on their website:

Racing Taken to a New Level

New clients in Canada are affording us the opportunity to prove the benefits and value of our hyperbaric oxygen therapy chambers to Thoroughbred and Standardbred owners and trainers. The treatments will be used on current in-training thoroughbred and standardbred horses to enhance post race recovery time. By speeding the healing of injury due to the wear and tear of racing (i.e. lung and microcirculation damage), the well being of the horses with allow them to race more frequently, at higher levels.

An interesting article on what the gray area of what is an enhancer and what isn't can be found here:
http://www.hhbnys.com/backend/NewsEditor/news_upload/RACING_20AND_20THE_20LAW_2edb.RL-1208.pdf

Incidentally, Fair Hill Training Center has a hyperbaric chamber on the grounds. Trainer Graham Motion trains from there. Animal Kingdom will be training from there until the day before the Preakness.
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/bs-sp-animal-kingdom-20110510,0,3448144.story

[illinoisbred]

In Illinois a horse can be "chambered" today and run tomorrow. A couple years ago,Wayne Catalano boasted...I've won with several right out of the chamber.

[GameTheory]

It seems we have no facts -- does it mask drugs or not? Is it risky to the horse in any way? If it masks drugs or has short-term benefits but long-term detriments, then it shouldn't be used. (Or if it is beneficial, but does mask drugs shouldn't be used near race day.)

But if it doesn't, and it promotes healing/recovery, then it should be considered a benign and normal pre or post-race treatment (unless it is actually not benign) and welcome advance in medical technology. I don't think anyone is against healthy and fast-recovering horses from the use of "natural" and appropriate treatments. (A hyperbaric chamber isn't exactly natural, but oxygen is.) If it does improve performance in the short-term but with no negative side-effects, it would seem then to be more an argument about "fairness" and who has access to the technology rather than a pure cheating issue, in which case an argument can be made that to keep a level playing field in shouldn't be used pre-race within a certain time-frame.

[Valuist]

Take the chambers away and Calabrese no longer wins 30% of the time.

[SouthFlorida]

Take the chambers away and Calabrese no longer wins 30% of the time.
Is he using a chamber in Florida?

[thaskalos]

It seems we have no facts -- does it mask drugs or not? Is it risky to the horse in any way? If it masks drugs or has short-term benefits but long-term detriments, then it shouldn't be used. (Or if it is beneficial, but does mask drugs shouldn't be used near race day.)

But if it doesn't, and it promotes healing/recovery, then it should be considered a benign and normal pre or post-race treatment (unless it is actually not benign) and welcome advance in medical technology. I don't think anyone is against healthy and fast-recovering horses from the use of "natural" and appropriate treatments. (A hyperbaric chamber isn't exactly natural, but oxygen is.) If it does improve performance in the short-term but with no negative side-effects, it would seem then to be more an argument about "fairness" and who has access to the technology rather than a pure cheating issue, in which case an argument can be made that to keep a level playing field in shouldn't be used pre-race within a certain time-frame.
As horse players...we deserve a level playing field if we are expected to put our money on the line with confidence.

If it "promotes healing/recovery" instead of masking drugs...then it should be used by ALL the horses (aren't they ALL in need of sufficient healing and recovery?)...and its use should be indicated in the past performances.

[GameTheory]

As horse players...we deserve a level playing field if we are expected to put our money on the line with confidence.

If it "promotes healing/recovery" instead of masking drugs...then it should be used by ALL the horses (aren't they ALL in need of sufficient healing and recovery?)...and its use should be indicated in the past performances.
Yeah, that's what I was getting at, but I doubt it would ever happen. I don't how cost-prohibitive this treatment is, but just as in human sports (especially individual sports like tennis), those with the most resources to hire the best coaches, doctors, etc will have an advantage...

[Valuist]

Is he using a chamber in Florida?

I have no proof but my guess is he is.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

I'm curious. To date, 8 people voted for the fourth option. If anyone who voted that way isn't a horseman, I'd like to hear why....heck, I'd like to hear why anyone voted for the fourth option....but especially Horseplayers who did.

[PhantomOnTour]

Wanting this info in the pp's is a pipe dream.
A symbol to indicate this horse was treated in a hyperbaric chamber since his last race?
I just don't see it happening.
I voted for option #4 mostly because the above opinion rules out #2 and #3.
If it is found to mask drugs then it's use should be made known, but at this point that remains unproven, right?
Until it is I remain in favor of option #4.

[illinoisbred]

I'm curious. To date, 8 people voted for the fourth option. If anyone who voted that way isn't a horseman, I'd like to hear why....heck, I'd like to hear why anyone voted for the fourth option....but especially Horseplayers who did.
I'd like to hear that too. Much like Thaskalos and Game Theory wrote above,the HC is perhaps the greatest gift from man to horse when it comes to recovery/recuperation from ailment or injury. I'll always believe it has no place being used on horses in training and racing. Many days at Arlington one could probably do better with the HC appointment book rather than the PPs.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Wanting this info in the pp's is a pipe dream.
A symbol to indicate this horse was treated in a hyperbaric chamber since his last race?
I just don't see it happening.
I voted for option #4 mostly because the above opinion rules out #2 and #3.
If it is found to mask drugs then it's use should be made known, but at this point that remains unproven, right?
Until it is I remain in favor of option #4.
How is anything going to be proven if we don't know who is using it, how many days out, and for what purpose?
If it was unproven that snail venom helps improve a horse's performance, should we just let trainers use it anytime, anywhere?

As for being in the pp's, I see the claims by the companies who manufacture the product themselves, and I have to lean towards assuming that it is a performance enhancer. It is probably more important info that workouts. So it should be in the form.

[GameTheory]

How is anything going to be proven if we don't know who is using it, how many days out, and for what purpose?
If it was unproven that snail venom helps improve a horse's performance, should we just let trainers use it anytime, anywhere?
Maybe. Depends on the effects. What if it was honey? Or Vitamin B? Or bits of mango? Some things fall into the category of "normal" (even if they are uncommon), i.e. non-artificial treatments without a pharmacological effect. Eating on a regular basis is a "performance enhancer" (compared to if they don't) -- do we need to see the entire diet regimen of every horse? If it is not masking pain so they run with injury or hiding drugs but is nothing but a glorified "healing balm" then I don't see how we can DEMAND to know, at least there would be lots of other stuff we should be told higher on the list.

[outofthebox]

I'm curious. To date, 8 people voted for the fourth option. If anyone who voted that way isn't a horseman, I'd like to hear why....heck, I'd like to hear why anyone voted for the fourth option....but especially Horseplayers who did.We have been using the HC in La. for the past two months. Both for pre & post race therapy. I find it especially beneficial for bleeders and horses with other breathing problems. I have found that our post race "scopes" have been improved dramatically since starting this regimen. Our horses have not been running any faster, they are just healthier and running true to form. I would highly doubt that one could say that the chamber masks other drugs. In fact we use less drugs on the pre race treatments now than we did before using the HC, which benefits the horse in the long run.
And to the gambling aspect of it, i like to play the horses i feel are doing good and in the right spot. I have not seen much improvement performance wise on a healthy and sound horse after a couple treatments before a race. I have only found it benificial for the chronic bleeder. It takes away the chances of scoping "dirty".How many times have we played a certain horse and he doesn't run up to par, and only later we hear the trainer with the mucous excuse? So far, our scopes have been clean, that's all i can ask for..

[Horseplayersbet.com]

We have been using the HC in La. for the past two months. Both for pre & post race therapy. I find it especially beneficial for bleeders and horses with other breathing problems. I have found that our post race "scopes" have been improved dramatically since starting this regimen. Our horses have not been running any faster, they are just healthier and running true to form. I would highly doubt that one could say that the chamber masks other drugs. In fact we use less drugs on the pre race treatments now than we did before using the HC, which benefits the horse in the long run.
And to the gambling aspect of it, i like to play the horses i feel are doing good and in the right spot. I have not seen much improvement performance wise on a healthy and sound horse after a couple treatments before a race. I have only found it benificial for the chronic bleeder. It takes away the chances of scoping "dirty".How many times have we played a certain horse and he doesn't run up to par, and only later we hear the trainer with the mucous excuse? So far, our scopes have been clean, that's all i can ask for..
Again, I have no problem with horsemen using this treatment if it was reported. You have anecdotal evidence here and you may be using it in specific situations, and I'm not saying I don't believe you. And even if all it does is make a horse run to its potential, why not make it available to everyone? Why should trainers and owners and their staff be the only ones who know about the treatments?
And what if we find that those horses who are treated this way have a better ROI or IV than the average horse? I think it should be public knowledge, and then if we find horses winning at ridiculous rates because the go through this therapy, it is up to the Commissions to enforce how it can be used or if it can be used.

My suspicion is that high percentage outfits are using this therapy more than other outfits. I'd like that suspicion to either be confirmed or go away.

[lamboguy]

hyperbarrick chambers supposedly separate the men from the boys in this game. it also separates to haves from the have nots because it cost alot of money to use it. i don't, i use as little vet work as possible. from what i am seeing these days is the good trainers wind up having enormous vet bills. between training, vet work, vans, and barnstakes these days an owner can be paying over $6000 a month to train horses plus the 10% that the trainer gets when he wins. it kind of eliminates many owners from participating in the game because of the cost involved to get a winner. i have been told that its not even half that in other parts of the world.

[outofthebox]

Again, I have no problem with horsemen using this treatment if it was reported. You have anecdotal evidence here and you may be using it in specific situations, and I'm not saying I don't believe you. And even if all it does is make a horse run to its potential, why not make it available to everyone? Why should trainers and owners and their staff be the only ones who know about the treatments?
And what if we find that those horses who are treated this way have a better ROI or IV than the average horse? I think it should be public knowledge, and then if we find horses winning at ridiculous rates because the go through this therapy, it is up to the Commissions to enforce how it can be used or if it can be used.

My suspicion is that high percentage outfits are using this therapy more than other outfits. I'd like that suspicion to either be confirmed or go away.Everyone here at Evangeline Training Center has full access to the HC> I know in NY they have a 7 day cut off period, but they also can't police that as they have none on the NYRA grounds. As of now there is no cut off time here in LA. I agree with your concerns over the public knowledge of this treatment..

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Everyone here at Evangeline Training Center has full access to the HC> I know in NY they have a 7 day cut off period, but they also can't police that as they have none on the NYRA grounds. As of now there is no cut off time here in LA. I agree with your concerns over the public knowledge of this treatment..
How much is a treatment at Evangeline? How many treatments are used on average over specific periods of time?

[Horseplayersbet.com]

'According to Daniel Rossignol, Medical Doctor and Hyperbaric Specialist, taking one hour of hyperbaric oxygen treatment is equal to taking 40 Motrin minus the toxic response. “You get increased oxygenation, decreased swelling and decreased inflammation, all from one treatment,” is what Dr. Rossignol has to say about this therapy. No wonder then, more and more athletes are benefiting from Hyperbaric Oxygen therapy and investing in hyperbaric chamber.'
http://hubpages.com/hub/How-Athletes-Benefit-From-Hyperbaric-Chambers

I'll trade having Lasix reported in the form and replace it with HC :)

[Producer]

Is he using a chamber in Florida?


I live in South Fla and follow Calder daily. His horse have not looked nearly as good as they did up north or even as good as they did at Gulfstream. I can guarantee you that the officials at calder are keeping a keen eye on his horses every move. They are not going to let this guy come in and win 30+%. Calabrese/Canani have 3 wins from 25 starters so far at calder. They do also have 6 2nds and 6 3rds but his horses don't seem to have the same kick as they did.


Most all of the top owners/trainers use the chambers. I feel they almost have to if they are going to compete with the other top guys using them. Lots of farms, including Winstar have chambers also.

[nijinski]

Brings me back to Sweet Catomine when she was snuck off the grounds
and papers claimed she was one of the pony horses.
She was shipped for the Oxygen treatments before the SA Derby . She
didn't fare well in the race and Canani et al had alot of answering to do.

I know she bled in a workout , but may have had more issues that the
Oxygen therapy wasn't going to help.

[outofthebox]

How much is a treatment at Evangeline? How many treatments are used on average over specific periods of time?$150 a session. Post race 3 days after race. If we claim a horse and it scoped bad 5 -10 treatments. You can see how fast the money can add up. Pre race treatments usually 3x stopping 36 hours out.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

$150 a session. Post race 3 days after race. If we claim a horse and it scoped bad 5 -10 treatments. You can see how fast the money can add up. Pre race treatments usually 3x stopping 36 hours out.
Thanks. I've read $200-$400. I guess it depends what track. I'm guessing these are one hour sessions.
Is that a rule regarding the 36 hours?

[Stillriledup]

Vladimir Cerin is a big oxygen proponent in So Cal, trainers often send horses to him for therapy. There might be a youtube piece done by HRTV on Cerin and his chamber, but i wasnt able to locate it on the HRTV youtube page.

[outofthebox]

Thanks. I've read $200-$400. I guess it depends what track. I'm guessing these are one hour sessions.
Is that a rule regarding the 36 hours?From the time they enter the chamber and finish, i would say max level of oxygen is roughly 45 minutes. But yes the door is closed for an hour. As is stands now there is no cut off time here in La. We race at night here and our last treatment is the morning before race day..

[Grits]

The use of hyperbaric chambers was discussed here during the Saratoga meet in 2009 when NYRA passed the ruling on their use. The most unsettling quote in all of this reading I've done is bolded. I'd love for this idea (or plan) to be explained to me--giving normal, healthy horses 100% pure oxygen treatments when they have NO health problems? How's does THIS benefit the natural physiology of these animals?

These two pieces are interesting, and were not included in the 2009 discussion. This first one focuses on the therapy as used on a bleeder who showed vast improvement:

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/horse-health/2004/october/16/veterinary-spotlight-a-study-in-oxygen-therapy.aspx


Convincing veterinarians, though, is not always easy. New Bolton and Dr.Dean Richardson are as highly regarded and well renown as it gets in the world of veterinary medicine. They were not interested. (Some excerpts from the article.)

http://www.equinechronicle.com/health/equine-care/hyperbaric-oxygen-therapy-for-the-equine-athlete.html

Scherder also has a hard time convincing veterinarians of its value. But the new young vets know about it. HBOT has proven itself valuable after surgery, for instance. This can improve a veterinarian’s statistics (recovery rates of patients). Those horses will survive and have better results, and those veterinarians will have more clients because people will realize that the horses they work on will recover faster.

Horse owners are starting to realize the benefits of this, says Martin. At first we thought the vets would be our market, but many of them don’t want to spend money for new equipment, and some don’t want to change; they want to do things the same way they always have,” says Martin. But when their clients start demanding this, some will take another look.


“I offered my machine to Barbaro, but they refused it. I had ordered this chamber from Tim Martin at Equineox and it was being sent to me, and at that time it was the only new machine available in North America. Tim asked if he could send it to Philadelphia on its way to me, and I agreed to that—because at that point I didn’t have any horses standing in line for it. But Barbaro’s vets refused it. I truly believe it would have helped him; he developed an infection that wouldn’t have occurred if he’d had oxygen treatments. The bone would have healed faster, allowing him to bear weight on it sooner, and he would not have developed laminitis in the other foot. All those complications occurred because of the break. They probably could have avoided 90 percent of the problems that ended up killing him. But the doctor treating him called hyperbarics ‘extravagantly experimental’, which tells me he didn’t do his homework,” says Scherder. A study of the literature in human medicine is proof that it works very well.

“We are getting inquiries from horse owners who want to have a chamber on their own farm for daily use in treating horses and for keeping them healthy—before they get problems,” says Martin. And if a newborn foal has complications, or any horse has an injury or illness, HBOT can also be an aid in treatment. It’s also helpful for older stallions with infertility problems.

“Doug Herthel found that out by accident. He was treating an older stallion for some other problem and discovered that the horse’s sperm count went up tremendously, so he did some studies with other stallions. One of our clients in Australia told us that Lloyds of London was interested in a sperm study because they spend millions of dollars on non-performing stallions (horses that are insured against loss of fertility). They talked to us about doing a study in Ontario on stallions, and if it pans out they are thinking of implementing this into their insurance policies,” says Martin. If it works, the stallion would have to have a certain number of hyperbaric treatments (to see if fertility is restored) before they would pay out on a claim for loss of fertility.

And http://www.kesmarc.com/index.html

A complete equine rehab facility in Versailles, Ky. that uses hyperbaric chambers among its many therapies. The facility has Mr.Irwin's quote indicating his confidence in their center on their home page.

[lamboguy]

this thread proves why there is a dire need for a commision like the nba, major league baseball, and the nfl. i mean there are so many other things they need a commision for, why don't they just do it already and go from there.

[pandy]

I doubt very much that Calabrese's amazing win percentage as an owner over the years has much to do with an oxygen chamber, or even with his trainers. Every trainer who trains his horses wins at a high percentage with his horses but not with the other horses they've trained that aren't owned by Calabrese. There is no way you are going to win at 40% just by using this chamber, otherwise everyone would do it.

[lamboguy]

I doubt very much that Calabrese's amazing win percentage as an owner over the years has much to do with an oxygen chamber, or even with his trainers. Every trainer who trains his horses wins at a high percentage with his horses but not with the other horses they've trained that aren't owned by Calabrese. There is no way you are going to win at 40% just by using this chamber, otherwise everyone would do it.i would say you are right!

one thing about calabreese, he's not afraid to buy a horse for $60k and run him at the bottom for $12500. another thing about frank is he has a man behind the scenes RED CURTIN, the man is 90 years old but has not lost anything off his fastball.

for those bostonians that remember jj kelly, his daughter CHERYL is married to RED

[Horseplayersbet.com]

I find it a little disheartening to see the response selection 4 has received. I'm assuming most those who picked 4 are horsemen.

Is it fair to bettors that horsemen have the information when it comes to HC and for that matter, when a horse is tapped? It is 2011, don't bettors deserve more transparency? Isn't it hard enough to beat the high takeouts? When you throw the inside info available to the backstretch when it comes to these type of procedures, you wind up with much lower prices than what you should get if the information playing field was leveled off.

This "entitlement" needs to stop.

[BIG49010]

Is he using a chamber in Florida?

I would guess no, but I don't know for sure.

[GameTheory]

When you throw the inside info available to the backstretch when it comes to these type of procedures...You'll have to make a case for why this procedure is special and needs to be singled out. What are "these types of procedures"? If a trainer feels it is a good idea to put a compression wrap on a horse's leg for a couple hours one day, should that be in the PPs? If he was gonna work 'em but doesn't like something he sees and decides to rest him one day, should it say "deliberate rest" in the PPs? How about acupuncture? If the horse shows any sign of illness, should the bettors get an immediate report?

I'm all for transparency, and it would be nice to know EVERYTHING, but from what's been said here, we are talking about something that has no side-effects and is just something good you can do for the horse. So if we need to know about this then we need to know about just about everything else. In other words, you seem to be lumping it in with drug treatments which we are notified about or with some type of cheating or near-cheating. From what's said here it sounds like it does not mask injury or make the horse run faster, but helps with recovery time and general welfare. (And also treatment of certain conditions -- after doing some research it sounds like *I* should get some hyperbaric treatments for some of my own problems.) Sounds great -- everyone should use it. What's the problem?

I just don't see the reason why you are singling it out over any other therapy.

[Grits]

I find it a little disheartening to see the response selection 4 has received. I'm assuming most those who picked 4 are horsemen.


It is surprising to read the number of people who have chosen:

Oxygen is legal, it is no one's business who is using this treatment.

It raises the question, how many of those responding, here, have had any experience, whatsoever, with the use of, or the need for, 100% oxygen?

It is legal, yes. Too--at 100%--it IS a drug, not unlike any other. Try purchasing a few five foot tall canisters of it without a doctor's order/rx. Talk with any pulmonologist, see if he or she would make the decision to give a healthy human, or a healthy athlete 100% oxygen treatments on a daily basis, or even a weekly one.

Unless a racehorse is not well, has an open wound, unless they're in a rehabilitative setting away from the racetrack for a period of time, why should they, as healthy and competitive, be administered 100% oxygen as a part of their training regimen? Particularly if this is not affordable to all trainers and owners at all levels of the game?

Bill Casner, owner of Winstar Farms, a pioneer of the therapy and a manufacturer and distributor of hyperbaric chambers was keynote speaker last year at the first veterinary conference on regenerative medicine.

http://www.alamopintado.com/veterinarians/conference/schedule-of-events/

My own vote was cast:

Treatment should be limited to out of competition horses only (not within 2-3 weeks of a race).

[GameTheory]

I can call and get an appointment for a session for myself right now just a couple miles from here. I can even buy or rent one of these chambers and use it as much as I want. Some human athletes travel with them.

High-class athletes in active training and competition are ALWAYS in a state of rehabilitation -- building and maintaining muscles. When you workout, the muscles tear and need recovery (that's how you build them). Oxygen speeds that process up, and it is not quite 100% btw, but it is 80-90% with a higher than normal pressure (that's why there is a chamber instead of a just an oxygen mask). You can also take enzymes to catalyze these processes -- another great no side-effect treatment.

QUESTION: If we could *replace* Lasix with these chambers, would you take that deal?

[Irish Boy]

You'll have to make a case for why this procedure is special and needs to be singled out. What are "these types of procedures"? If a trainer feels it is a good idea to put a compression wrap on a horse's leg for a couple hours one day, should that be in the PPs? If he was gonna work 'em but doesn't like something he sees and decides to rest him one day, should it say "deliberate rest" in the PPs? How about acupuncture? If the horse shows any sign of illness, should the bettors get an immediate report?

I'm all for transparency, and it would be nice to know EVERYTHING, but from what's been said here, we are talking about something that has no side-effects and is just something good you can do for the horse. So if we need to know about this then we need to know about just about everything else. In other words, you seem to be lumping it in with drug treatments which we are notified about or with some type of cheating or near-cheating. From what's said here it sounds like it does not mask injury or make the horse run faster, but helps with recovery time and general welfare. (And also treatment of certain conditions -- after doing some research it sounds like *I* should get some hyperbaric treatments for some of my own problems.) Sounds great -- everyone should use it. What's the problem?

I just don't see the reason why you are singling it out over any other therapy.
I think a lot of people don't like anything that Pappy O'Flanagan wasn't using in 19-aught-seven. I have no problem restricting products that are harmful to the runners, but everything I've read against hyperbaric chambers argues, in essence, either "War Admiral didn't need no dern hyperbolic doohickey" or "if we let them use this completely legitimate training method, they might shoot them full of Grade A Steroids too!" You can guess how convincing I find these arguments.

[GameTheory]

I think a lot of people don't like anything that Pappy O'Flanagan wasn't using in 19-aught-seven. I have no problem restricting products that are harmful to the runners, but everything I've read against hyperbaric chambers argues, in essence, either "War Admiral didn't need no dern hyperbolic doohickey" or "if we let them use this completely legitimate training method, they might shoot them full of Grade A Steroids too!" You can guess how convincing I find these arguments.Yeah, there are two issues:

1) Should it be used? I think this is a no-brainer YES since it can *reduce* the use of other toxic pharmalogicals with a nice non-toxic and detriment-free treatment that can only do good. Score one for modern technology.

2) Should we have "transparency", i.e. be told about it as bettors? Well, yes again in theory, but given all the other things we are not told it is hard to claim this particular treatment is somehow special and needs to be elevated over others in terms of reporting. (Like surgery!) Ideally, we'd have full medical records, training regimen, diet, weight, and 24-hour webcams to watch every move of every horse in training.

[nijinski]

I like Animal Kingdoms therapy over at Fair Hill. I hear he will get Spa style cold salt water to bathe in up to his knees . There are also bulking his bedding to making to make it nice and cushy for any possible muscle aches.
he deserves to be treated like a King . No reports of Oxygen other than fresh air.

[Grits]

I can call and get an appointment for a session for myself right now just a couple miles from here. I can even buy or rent one of these chambers and use it as much as I want. Some human athletes travel with them.

I bet you can, pardon the pun, given the money making machines they are. And good luck getting your healthcare plan to pay for it, particularly if you're well. Unless you're a fulltime athlete, in training, who is no doubt under the care of one or more excellent physicians would you really want to do this on a regular basis, bringing this equipment into your home, or on your travels?

High-class athletes in active training and competition are ALWAYS in a state of rehabilitation -- building and maintaining muscles. When you workout, the muscles tear and need recovery (that's how you build them). Oxygen speeds that process up, and it is not quite 100% btw, but it is 80-90% with a higher than normal pressure (that's why there is a chamber instead of a just an oxygen mask). You can also take enzymes to catalyze these processes -- another great no side-effect treatment.

QUESTION: If we could *replace* Lasix with these chambers, would you take that deal?

Game Theory, btw, not only have I read a good deal, and understand the therapy and how it relates to the progressive healing in humans and horses, I have some understanding as well on how it might benefit the lungs since my son has heart and lung disease. I don't need to go further, though, as you've done so. Thanks.

If one could make hyperbaric chambers as inexpensive as lasix, (but I doubt this) so that it could be as widely used, therefore, as Lambo has indicated, making the game more fair and level for all maybe that would please others.

I'm not sure you read any of the linked articles I took the time to post, but this is a controversial therapy, and has been for some time, as there's a nice commercial aspect involved here. A lot of money being made with the therapy where medical studies have not proven this equipment capable of what its proponents are claiming.

When you start indicating to families that hyperbaric oxygen therapy is a highly successful breakthrough for the treatment of Autism, Alzheimers, ADHD, Strokes, Traumatic Brain Injury, and other cognitive disorders, along with Multiple Sclerosis, Cerebral Palsy, Parkinsons Disease, Diabetes, and so on and so on--I, for one, feel a little hesitant. But, this is JMO.

One can hope that the horse trainers who are fortunate enough to have one in their barn continue to remain winners.

I think a lot of people don't like anything that Pappy O'Flanagan wasn't using in 19-aught-seven. I have no problem restricting products that are harmful to the runners, but everything I've read against hyperbaric chambers argues, in essence, either "War Admiral didn't need no dern hyperbolic doohickey" or "if we let them use this completely legitimate training method, they might shoot them full of Grade A Steroids too!" You can guess how convincing I find these arguments.

It isn't a training method, its a theraputic method. A drug therapy that is sold as harmless and nonperformance enhansing, but that few can afford. As far as human go the studies are inconclusive. Still, if you find one of your family members with one of the serious illnesses above, check your yellow pages for the "chamber practice" closest to you.

Thanks guys for the ideas.

[sonnyp]

I like Animal Kingdoms therapy over at Fair Hill. I hear he will get Spa style cold salt water to bathe in up to his knees . There are also bulking his bedding to making to make it nice and cushy for any possible muscle aches.
he deserves to be treated like a King . No reports of Oxygen other than fresh air.


you bring back memories, we had 2 poles with cross ties in a frigid mountain stream near saratoga. would stand the old sore harness horses in there 30 minutes a day. really helped them a lot.

[GameTheory]

Unless you're a fulltime athlete, in training, who is no doubt under the care of one or more excellent physicians would you really want to do this on a regular basis, bringing this equipment into your home, or on your travels?It is full-time athletes in training that we are talking about.

If one could make hyperbaric chambers as inexpensive as lasix, (but I doubt this) so that it could be as widely used, therefore, as Lambo has indicated, making the game more fair and level for all maybe that would please others.The cost is a separate issue. It seems some think we should have a "salary cap" so that rich owners can't outspend less-rich owners? Not gonna happen. But the more it is used, the more the cost will come down.

I'm not sure you read any of the linked articles I took the time to post, but this is a controversial therapy, and has been for some time, as there's a nice commercial aspect involved here. A lot of money being made with the therapy where medical studies have not proven this equipment capable of what its proponents are claiming.Most newer treatments are, and the naysayers aren't necessarily pure of heart either. Whenever a new medical device comes out that causes certain specialists to take a financial hit as they are "replaced by a machine", they get all up in arms and try to tell you the machine is no good. I know of a case where they've come out with this WONDERFUL machine that is insanely helpful for neurological disorders and the neurologists hate them because they are not needed for their previously necessary expensive methods.

In any case, there have been numerous studies of this treatment for all sorts of conditions, and most are showing positive or neutral results. It may not be a cure-all, but it certainly doesn't seem a quack therapy as you seem to be implying. I admit that at first glace it sounds like a quack therapy, but the results are encouraging so far.

When you start indicating to families that hyperbaric oxygen therapy is a highly successful breakthrough for the treatment of Autism, Alzheimers, ADHD, Strokes, Traumatic Brain Injury, and other cognitive disorders, along with Multiple Sclerosis, Cerebral Palsy, Parkinsons Disease, Diabetes, and so on and so on--I, for one, feel a little hesitant. But, this is JMO.Ok, so it's hyped. Not really relevant.

[PhantomOnTour]

What about a carbonite bath?
Worked for Han Solo

[Grits]

The cost is not a separate issue, and unless, you, (Game Theory) breed, break, own and race horses, as Lambo has and does--which I can find respect in because I learn from him, which to me, is a good thing--I think cost is not a separate issue, its a great part of the issue which may continue to cause owners to leave the game. Maybe its just my take on siding with "the smaller guy," who ain't got the walk around money of a Texas Oil Man, a Creator of Bottled Vitamin Water, or the publishing company of Chicken Soup books.

It may not be a cure-all, but it certainly doesn't seem a quack therapy as you seem to be implying.

No I haven't seemed to do this, to imply that its a quack therapy. Please, don't make accusations including words I didn't write. I don't discount what it can do for tissue damage. There are plenty of videos online. Take a look; not quackery. (Also one doesn't get asked to be a keynote speaker at a medical conference if he can't back up what he's addressing.)

Ok, so it's hyped. Not really relevant.

Deader than Kelso's nuts. Wrong. I'm sorry. This is poor protocol, not too mention that it opens one's doors to malpractice. When you place unproven theories and therapies over those which are proven, implement them and declare them as beneficial--no, it is relevant. It gives those you're treating false hope, while you cash their checks.

What I knew at the onset here--is that supplemental oxygen, regardless the level, is a drug, and if you don't agree, ask your physician or your veterinarian. I understand the benefit oxygen therapy can deliver to the lungs and the capillaries in them as they carry higher, more richly oxygenated blood throughout the lungs and the heart to the rest of the body. And this would be pretty much the same for humans or equines; having effect on performance ability. Like I said, my child's lungs are damaged and he has heart disease. This isn't something I was unfamiliar with. Otherwise, I wouldn't have written a word. I'm one who struggles discussing things with you because I'm no match. But, as prone, you know this.

[GameTheory]

The cost is not a separate issue, and unless, you, (Game Theory) breed, break, own and race horses, as Lambo has and does--which I can find respect in because I learn from him, which to me, is a good thing--I think cost is not a separate issue, its a great part of the issue which may continue to cause owners to leave the game. Maybe its just my take on siding with "the smaller guy," who ain't got the walk around money of a Texas Oil Man, a Creator of Bottled Vitamin Water, or the publishing company of Chicken Soup books.I didn't say it was a non-issue, I said it was a separate issue. You *seem* to be saying that just because it is expensive, it shouldn't be used, benefits be damned. In other words, since some can't afford it and even if we can all agree that the treatment is 100% beneficial at all times (which we can't, obviously) then you'd still be against it on that grounds. And such argument could then be applied to ANYTHING expensive, be it a therapy or a new kind of blinkers, i.e. are you proposing a spending cap for trainers & owners?


No I haven't seemed to do this, to imply that its a quack therapy. Please, don't make accusations including words I didn't write.That's the way it *seemed* to me, and I think I put enough qualifiers on it (like "seems" and "implying") not to count as an accusation or putting words in your mouth.

I don't discount what it can do for tissue damage. There are plenty of videos online. Take a look; not quackery. (Also one doesn't get asked to be a keynote speaker at a medical conference if he can't back up what he's addressing.) And you still *seem* to be saying that, i.e good for some things, likely quackery for others. (e.g. it won't cure cancer) And I would agree with that, but that's no reason not to use it for what it is good at or even what we suspect it might be good at as long as there are no detrimental effects. (As long as the richie-rich owners are willing to pay, have at it.)



Deader than Kelso's nuts. Wrong. I'm sorry. This is poor protocol, not too mention that it opens one's doors to malpractice. When you place unproven theories and therapies over those which are proven, implement them and declare them as beneficial--no, it is relevant. It gives those you're treating false hope, while you cash their checks.Back to the quackery again. It really does *seem* like you're going there. But again, not really relevant as no one said anything about placing this over proven therapies, etc etc and making this or that promise. You've got a problem with shysters, I get it. Who doesn't?

This isn't something I was unfamiliar with. Otherwise, I wouldn't have written a word. I'm one who struggles discussing things with you because I'm no match. But, as prone, you know this.I'm one who struggles discussing things with you because you seem to take affront at everything I write and usually react *as if* I've been condescending or patronizing or otherwise insulting when I'm just making plain statements. (Or sometimes you just "refuse to discuss it" even though you brought it up.)

[Jeff P]

One of the basic requirements for successfully marketing a gambling game to the general public is that the game be regulated in such a way that the public has little or no reason to doubt the integrity of the game itself.

This is true for all gambling games - racing included.

Nationwide, all sources handle (adjusted for inflation) in 2011 is roughly HALF of what it was just eight years ago in 2003.

I contend that lack of integrity is one of racing's core (unaddressed) problems. I also contend that lack of integrity (along with high takeout) are the driving forces behind racing's handle decline.

I do not own horses. I do not train horses. I do not practice verterinary medicine.

I am therefore not qualified to make decisions about the pros or cons (from a medical perspective) when it comes to treating horses with oxygen.

However, like ALL bettors, I AM qualified to decide what type of game I will or won't support before I open my wallet.

Attention Racing Industry Decision Makers:
Without transparency and full disclosure, use of devices such as the Hyperbaric Chamber (even if oxygen therapy is beneficial to horses) gives the wagering public reason to doubt the integrity of the game.

Short of transparency and full disclosure, a good analogy might be that you (you being Racing's Decision Makers) are asking the public to support your gambling product knowing full well that owners and trainers are dealing cards from a marked deck. (Right now only insiders know how to read the marks on the backs of the cards: which horses have or haven't been treated with oxygen.)

Is it any wonder racing handle (adjusted for inflation) today is roughly half of what it was just eight years ago?

Full disclosure (transparency) is achievable. In fact, it is currently being done in other parts of the world - just not here in North America.

I went to the Hong Kong Jockey Club website. On race days, with a mouse click on a given race, everyone can see the medical history for every horse in that race.

Here is a link to the medical histories of the horses for R4 at Sha Tin:
http://www.hkjc.com/english/racing/Veterinary_Record.asp?race=4&venue=ST

Nothing too elaborate here. Just a sentence or two describing recent medical issues for the horses entered in a given race.

I have no problem with treating horses with oxygen - especially if it is done in a way prescribed by those who practice veterinary medicine.

However, I strongly believe that transparency/full disclosure in the form of a brief medical history for all horses entered in a given race (use the Hong Kong Jockey Club as your model) would be in the long term best interests of the game.

Jeff Platt
President, HANA

.

[GameTheory]

However, I strongly believe that transparency/full disclosure in the form of a brief medical history for all horses entered in a given race (use the Hong Kong Jockey Club as your model) would be in the long term best interests of the game.
Amen. Wouldn't that be amazing?

Part of our problem is because we have such a long tradition of horse racing in this country that the old traditions are very entrenched. If the sport was just getting going here now as a new enterprise there is no way it would be set-up so short-sightedly.

[5k-claim]

I went to the Hong Kong Jockey Club website. On race days, with a mouse click on a given race, everyone can see the medical history for every horse in that race.

Here is a link to the medical histories of the horses for R4 at Sha Tin:
http://www.hkjc.com/english/racing/Veterinary_Record.asp?race=4&venue=ST

Nothing too elaborate here. Just a sentence or two describing recent medical issues for the horses entered in a given race. Not that I am against more disclosure or anything- I have read those links a time or two and think they are kinda cool to look at. I don't mind them.

Just out of curiosity, did you handicap that race? How did you incorporate all of those comments into your handicapping?

Like I said, I just read them and thought they were interesting.

.

[nijinski]

you bring back memories, we had 2 poles with cross ties in a frigid mountain stream near saratoga. would stand the old sore harness horses in there 30 minutes a day. really helped them a lot.

Good old remedies sonny water and ice .

[Jeff P]

Not that I am against more disclosure or anything- I have read those links a time or two and think they are kinda cool to look at. I don't mind them.

Just out of curiosity, did you handicap that race? How did you incorporate all of those comments into your handicapping?

Like I said, I just read them and thought they were interesting.

.


No, I didn't handicap that race.

However, I have handicapped (and bet) 1000's of North American races over the past few years.

Take a look at this thread (and comments about hyperbaric chambers and trainer win percent) from a while back:
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71269

While handicapping and betting North American races, the wagering public is left in the dark when it comes to which horses receive oxygen therapy and which horses do not. Apparently, it' makes a difference. Yet the horse's human connections know.

I see racing's parimutuel pools as a financial market.

In US based financial markets such as NYSE, NASDAQ, etc. acting on inside information isn't just considered bad form. It's a felony (think insider trading.)

But in racing it's perfectly ok for the horse's human connections to bet (and fleece) the wagering public using this type of information.

Do the game's current rules bring integrity to the game?

Or do the game's current set of rules drive would be racing customers away to other forms of gambling where the rules in those games appear to give the player a more even shake?

I pointed out the link to the medical histories of horses entered to race at the HJK site to make a point:

Other racing jurisdictions have figured it out.

I think it's about time racing's decision makers here in North America did the same.


-jp

.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

No, I didn't handicap that race.

However, I have handicapped (and bet) 1000's of North American races over the past few years.

Take a look at this thread (and comments about hyperbaric chambers and trainer win percent) from a while back:
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71269

While handicapping and betting North American races, the wagering public is left in the dark when it comes to which horses receive oxygen therapy and which horses do not. Apparently, it' makes a difference. Yet the horse's human connections know.

I see racing's parimutuel pools as a financial market.

In US based financial markets such as NYSE, NASDAQ, etc. acting on inside information isn't just considered bad form. It's a felony (think insider trading.)

But in racing it's perfectly ok for the horse's human connections to bet (and fleece) the wagering public using this type of information.

Do the game's current rules bring integrity to the game?

Or do the game's current set of rules drive would be racing customers away to other forms of gambling where the rules in those games appear to give the player a more even shake?

I pointed out the link to the medical histories of horses entered to race at the HJK site to make a point:

Other racing jurisdictions have figured it out.

I think it's about time racing's decision makers here in North America did the same.


-jp

.
More than half the people polled here so far seem to believe in insider trading.

[Jeff P]

Not that I am against more disclosure or anything- I have read those links a time or two and think they are kinda cool to look at. I don't mind them.

Just out of curiosity, did you handicap that race? How did you incorporate all of those comments into your handicapping?

Like I said, I just read them and thought they were interesting.

.

Sorry for my initial (long winded) rant.

This time let's try things from a handicapping perspective.

What if we rephrase the question to:Suppose you have knowledge that a horse has or hasn't been given O2 therapy (or some other beneficial treatment)(or if the horse has some medical condition with the ability to negatively impact performance) How would you incorporate that knowledge into your handicapping process?If there were other facets about the horse that I liked - and had already "selected" the horse -- then I'd approach things from a min strike price standpoint:

If I knew that a horse had been treated with O2 (or some other beneficial treatment with the ability to enhance performance) - I'd adjust my min strike price downwards - and bet the horse at lower odds than I otherwise would.

If I knew that a horse had not been treated with O2 (or there were an indication the horse were trying to overcome some physical problem with the ability to negatively impact performance) - I'd adjust my min strike price upwards - and demand higher odds before opening my wallet to bet the horse.


-jp

.

[SouthFlorida]

I doubt very much that Calabrese's amazing win percentage as an owner over the years has much to do with an oxygen chamber, or even with his trainers. Every trainer who trains his horses wins at a high percentage with his horses but not with the other horses they've trained that aren't owned by Calabrese. There is no way you are going to win at 40% just by using this chamber, otherwise everyone would do it.

There was a quote after the derby somewhere "the vets little black bag"

[BIG49010]

There was a quote after the derby somewhere "the vets little black bag"

1. I think the key to FCL is he has the money to spend.
2. He gives the horses the necessary time.
3. He spares no expense with the vets, on not only drugs but supliments for the horses diet.

This prepares his horses to win in catagories where the the horses that require all of the above for maximum performances have owners of limited means.

When the horses are ready to run they spot them where they should win without question.

In my opinion, with the amount of money he spends, he should be winning at an even higher percentage. I can see why he yells about loosing money at this game!

I agree with Jeff, this is a case of insider trading, as far as Frank is concerned and I am sure there are many others with the same plan.

[Grits]

http://equinehyperbarics.com/

This is Oscar, owned by consignor/pinhooker Niall Brennan, and his journey. One aided by treatments in the hyperbaric chambers at Equine Oxygen Therapy in Lexington.

http://www.hbpa.org/HorsemensJournalDisplay.asp?section=3&key1=6202

One could say, for owners that can handle the price tag associated with the treatments, (and many easily can,) the horsemen and the owners are very much in favor of HBOT.

http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/horse-racing-steve-haskin/archive/2011/05/11/haskin-s-preakness-report-a-morning-at-fair-hill.aspx?CommentPosted=true

Motion was pleased to report that his Wood Memorial winner Toby’s Corner, who was forced to miss the Derby with a still undiagnosed injury, is 50% sounder today.

“We still don’t know what the actual injury is, but I believe it may be a muscle judging by the way it responded to therapy yesterday,” he said.

Motion doesn't disclose what therapy Toby's Corner is undergoing at the present time.

Irwin has spared no expense. In addition to the round pens and large paddocks that were there, they have installed or are in the process of installing an equine salt water spa, a vibrating floor, and a horse scale, where the horses are weighed every week. A new annex also is in the process of being completed. A short distance from the barn, there is a large round barn with an automatic horse walking machine encompassing 10 stalls and an office.

It doesn't disclose if a Hyperbaric chamber has also been included in Irwin's onsite improvements at Fair Hill, but if a partnership has already spent this amount of money on state of the art equipment for one's horses, HBOT would be beneficial as well, one can understand.

http://racehorsewatchdog.com/turfway-animal-kingdom-decisive-moment-moving-on-to-kentucky-derby-after-spiral-stakes/

Crimson China “bled a 2 on a scale of 5,” according to Irwin, “so he’ll go to a hyperbaric chamber for four or five days. I’d imagine he’ll still be able to run in the Blue Grass.”


Again, gentlemen, we can all appreciate state of the art equipment that is deemed beneficial to horses--we're, as bettors though, not allowed to be made aware of any of it. At any time. Like Jeff and others, one can feel this may certainly be hurting the game--the full disclosure thing and all. It really is somewhat worrisome. Unfortunately

[Horseplayersbet.com]

"One service offered at Fair Hill that Motion has not opted to use is the hyperbaric oxygen therapy. Motion said he has used the therapy on Thoroughbreds who suffer exercise-induced pulmonary hemorrhage, but Animal Kingdom has had no such problems."
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/racing-news/2011/05/16/animal-kingdom-fair-hill-ship.aspx

Wouldn't it be wonderful if this kind of stuff would be in the workout lines? I mean, if a horse had therapy that is.

[Grits]

Isn't it somewhat surprising that Motion would even make mention of the fact that Fair Hill has a hyperbaric chamber onsite there at the training center? Not to mention, disclosing whether Animal Kingdom has or has not undergone therapy in the chamber in recent days. Unusual, to say the least.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Isn't it somewhat surprising that Motion would even make mention of the fact that Fair Hill has a hyperbaric chamber onsite there at the training center? Not to mention, disclosing whether Animal Kingdom has or has not undergone therapy in the chamber in recent days. Unusual, to say the least.
Lets face it. Look at the poll results. Had to be mostly horsemen who voted the fourth option. Maybe even a member or two from Team Valor. :)

[PaceAdvantage]

Lets face it. Look at the poll results. Had to be mostly horsemen who voted the fourth option. Maybe even a member or two from Team Valor. :)Why would you think that?

Why is the hyperbaric chamber such a boogeyman these days? Is it because not everyone has access to one?

What exactly has been proven regarding HC's that leads you to believe it allows a horse to run above and beyond its natural ability? How is it much different than a massage therapist or acupuncturist that helps get a horse back into running shape quicker?

[Saratoga_Mike]

Why would you think that?

Why is the hyperbaric chamber such a boogeyman these days? Is it because not everyone has access to one?

What exactly has been proven regarding HC's that leads you to believe it allows a horse to run above and beyond its natural ability? How is it much different than a massage therapist or acupuncturist that helps get a horse back into running shape quicker?

Spot on. I know someone who trains a large string of horses (50 to 60 at most times), primarily claimers but also some decent allowance horses. He's a very honest trainer and has solid lifetime stats (right around a 20% win rate). A few yrs ago, he purchased an HC and brought it to the track (it was all cleared with track mgt of course). After using it on his horses for about 6 months, he sold it to a trainer in another state. Why? "It cost too much to operate and just didn't make that much of a difference in most cases." This is from someone who is a very solid trainer and a saavy businessman, so he knows how to track results.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Why would you think that?

Why is the hyperbaric chamber such a boogeyman these days? Is it because not everyone has access to one?

What exactly has been proven regarding HC's that leads you to believe it allows a horse to run above and beyond its natural ability? How is it much different than a massage therapist or acupuncturist that helps get a horse back into running shape quicker?
The claims made by the hc companies lead me to believe that they are enhancers as much as milk shakes are.
What is the difference between milk shakes and hc?

[Saratoga_Mike]

The claims made by the hc companies lead me to believe that they are enhancers as much as milk shakes are.
What is the difference between milk shakes and hc?

One is legal and one is not, to start with

[Horseplayersbet.com]

One is legal and one is not, to start with
Moot point for this discussion.

I am fine with horsemen choosing to or not to use an hc. All I want is transparency so that Horseplayers can make their own inferences as to whether hc enhances performance or not.

Your friend says it didn't help that much...well, that much could be the difference between ripping up a triactor ticket or cashing one.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Moot point for this discussion.
I am fine with horsemen choosing to or not to use an hc. All I want is transparency so that Horseplayers can make their own inferences as to whether hc enhances performance or not.

Your friend says it didn't help that much...well, that much could be the difference between ripping up a triactor ticket or cashing one.

Ok, there is absolutely NO question in my mind that a milkshake enhances performance, often meaningfully. No one would argue this, just look at what happens to the stats of trainers who are caught with high CO2 levels and then come back from their suspensions. The stats almost always plummet. That just isn't the case when a trainer stops using a HC.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Ok, there is absolutely NO question in my mind that a milkshake enhances performance, often meaningfully. No one would argue this, just look at what happens to the stats of trainers who are caught with high CO2 levels and then come back from their suspensions. The stats almost always plummet. That just isn't the case when a trainer stops using a HC.
I would like to see empirical evidence. Why did NYRA put in rules that horses can't be in a chamber 7 days out? Why do HC companies claim that there is performance enhancement......why do athletes swear by them too?

Again, what you are stating here might be true, but I want to see it for myself.

[Saratoga_Mike]

I would like to see empirical evidence. Why did NYRA put in rules that horses can't be in a chamber 7 days out? Why do HC companies claim that there is performance enhancement......why do athletes swear by them too?

Again, what you are stating here might be true, but I want to see it for myself.

I will concede I'm putting a lot of faith in the trainer I know. I'm not going to say who it is, because I don't have his permission to do so. But you would know his name. I suppose he could be wrong, but he's a very smart guy.

[PICSIX]

Hoping to revive this thread...do any PA members that are owners and/or trainers have 1st hand experience with HC's, if so, do they enhance equine performance in your opinion? Are they becoming more and more available for use?

Thanks for any replies. :ThmbUp:

Mike

[BIG49010]

I know Chris Block started using them more in 2011, make a comparison of his horses in 2010 and 2011. He won 13 more times and ran 36 races in 2010, but made 700,000 less dollars

[tbwinner]

Wayne Catalano, Ingrid Mason, and Larry Rivelli in Illinois.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

This discusses the recent tragedy in Florida:
http://www.retiredracehorseblog.com/2012/02/11/horseshoes-and-hyperbaric-chambers/
But make no mistake, there are many benefits that comes from this type of treatment and that is why I believe the public should be informed in the past performances when a horse takes this treatment.

[davew]

there can be such a thing as information overload - what does the public need to know?


how about the weights of the exercise rider for listed workouts? Would a 115 pound jockey have much effect on workout time vs a 190 pound exercise rider?

how about that the horse is scheduled to stand with his front legs in a tub with 2 feet of ice water for 45 minutes 6 hours before the scheduled start of the race running in today.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

there can be such a thing as information overload - what does the public need to know?


how about the weights of the exercise rider for listed workouts? Would a 115 pound jockey have much effect on workout time vs a 190 pound exercise rider?

how about that the horse is scheduled to stand with his front legs in a tub with 2 feet of ice water for 45 minutes 6 hours before the scheduled start of the race running in today.
I agree that everything can't feasibly be reported. However I think exceptions should be made for at least a few things. I think horses tapped, throat operations, gelding operations (in fact, any operation should be reported) and horses who have had hyperbaric treatments. Why should the backstretch have such a huge edge on information over the betting public, when in fact, the game is financed by betting for the most part?

To me, this is the same thing as stock market inside information.

Trainers will always have an advantage because of minor equipment changes and just the knowledge of the horse and whether they are physically (and even mentally) at their best or not, but when extra money is spent to improve a horse, the public should at least know that.

[Tom]

there can be such a thing as information overload - what does the public need to know?


how about the weights of the exercise rider for listed workouts? Would a 115 pound jockey have much effect on workout time vs a 190 pound exercise rider?

how about that the horse is scheduled to stand with his front legs in a tub with 2 feet of ice water for 45 minutes 6 hours before the scheduled start of the race running in today.

Next thing you know, people will want to know who the trainer is, who will ride the horse, what race he has been running in. Ya gots the danged program number, what more do ya need? :rolleyes: ;)

[illinoisbred]

"We won with 5 or 6 right out of the tank"...http://blogs.pioneerlocal.com/parker/2008/06