Paying taxes on a signer (need some advice)...

[JPinMaryland]

My first only signer and we went in with three guys on the derby trifecta. they needed SS card and ID so my roomie signed for it and got a W2; now he tells us he has to pay taxes on it, so he's deducting the taxes from our share, something like 25% + 7,5% (state)...

Is there any way around this? We would like to get our pre tax share and then pay our own taxes. He says he called the IRS today and they said the only way to do it is to have all three of us sign for it at the signer window and then they each give us some sort of W2 form?

we would be willling to provide receipts for our share of the money he's holding but he says the IRS says it wont be good.


Any help would be appreciated. Leaves a sour taste in my mouth for exotic betting... :ThmbDown:

[Spiderman]

My first only signer and we went in with three guys on the derby trifecta. they needed SS card and ID so my roomie signed for it and got a W2; now he tells us he has to pay taxes on it, so he's deducting the taxes from our share, something like 25% + 7,5% (state)...

Is there any way around this? We would like to get our pre tax share and then pay our own taxes. He says he called the IRS today and they said the only way to do it is to have all three of us sign for it at the signer window and then they each give us some sort of W2 form?

we would be willling to provide receipts for our share of the money he's holding but he says the IRS says it wont be good.


Any help would be appreciated. Leaves a sour taste in my mouth for exotic betting... :ThmbDown:

He should get something for being the signer as he is liable for the tax and it may impact his filing. To report losses against winnnings, he must file Schedule A and not receive the standard deduction.

Otherwise, you can make an agreement with him that he will refund any amount of the signer taxes that are refunded, to be split among the three. There is a form for multiple winners, you could have waited and returned with
proper ID. Perhaps, where you bet will cancel the first cashing and issue the multiple winning form. All of you should consider if you usually file, using the standard deduction.

[Zippy Chippy]

I've never not used a 10%er :)

[andymays]

My first only signer and we went in with three guys on the derby trifecta. they needed SS card and ID so my roomie signed for it and got a W2; now he tells us he has to pay taxes on it, so he's deducting the taxes from our share, something like 25% + 7,5% (state)...

Is there any way around this? We would like to get our pre tax share and then pay our own taxes. He says he called the IRS today and they said the only way to do it is to have all three of us sign for it at the signer window and then they each give us some sort of W2 form?

we would be willling to provide receipts for our share of the money he's holding but he says the IRS says it wont be good.


Any help would be appreciated. Leaves a sour taste in my mouth for exotic betting... :ThmbDown:

Approximately how much was the hit for?

[Rise Over Run]

Any help would be appreciated. Leaves a sour taste in my mouth for exotic betting... :ThmbDown:

You should have had a conversation about this with your partners before betting. There's a high probability of an exotic wager becoming a signer in a 19 horse field.

[Dahoss9698]

I've never not used a 10%er :)

This doesn't surprise me.

[andymays]

If it's not a big number and there's no withholding then it's early enough in the year to now worry about asking them to take less than one third.

[horses4courses]

I've never not used a 10%er :)

A lifeline at every track/racebook......... :ThmbUp:

[InTheRiver68]

If you had asked, at the time you cashed the ticket, then the mutuel office should have been able to split the winnings three ways and issue you each a W-2G for your individual shares.

It's probably not possible to change this now that it's done. The money has been issued to your roommate, and because the track can't guarantee that the winnings were distributed according to the shares on separate W-2Gs, then they probably won't be willing to go back and re-issue the forms.

That said, if your roommate itemizes his deductions, he can claim losses up to his winnings for the year. If he only has one W-2G for the year, and doesn't have many (or any) from previous years, he can probably simply claim losses that equal the amount on the W-2G and the IRS won't bother him. In that case, there are no taxes.

But because you're in a roommate situation, it seems unlikely that he itemizes.

- InTheRiver68

[Dahoss9698]

A lifeline at every track/racebook......... :ThmbUp:

This does surprise me. I'll never understand using a 10%er. Never.

[horses4courses]

This does surprise me. I'll never understand using a 10%er. Never.

I don't swing for the fences very often when it comes to signers.
Consequently, I haven't hit too many (less than ten in 24 years play in US).

The ones I have hit online, obviously, have been declared, and all my wagers are documented.
Years ago, that was not the case for me.
If I hit a signer late in the year, I had little or no proof of my wagers earlier in the year.
It was, thus, beneficial to have someone else sign, and I paid them 10%.

It's part of life in a racebook. Hard enough to win big, but to give the IRS a big chunk of it?
Not if you can avoid it..........

[Spiderman]

If roomie is college student and has no other income or limited income, he automatically receives exemption of $3,650 and standard deduction of $5,700. The combined amounts of $9,350 will defray the winning amount. The exemption and standard deduction amounts here are for a taxpayer filing as single.

[Zippy Chippy]

This doesn't surprise me.

Why? I think it doesn't make sense to claim it yourself. If I hit a tri for $800, id take $720 in cash every day of the week rather than $800 and a tax form. I dont know what the number is but I've been going to the track for 20 yrs and have used a 10 percenter every single time. Some of them were with actual tellers.

[andymays]

Why? I think it doesn't make sense to claim it yourself. If I hit a tri for $800, id take $720 in cash every day of the week rather than $800 and a tax form. I dont know what the number is but I've been going to the track for 20 yrs and have used a 10 percenter every single time. Some of them were with actual tellers.

You're giving away money for almost nothing. Having said that if it gives you peace of mind to do it that way then carry on.

[Dahoss9698]

Why? I think it doesn't make sense to claim it yourself. If I hit a tri for $800, id take $720 in cash every day of the week rather than $800 and a tax form. I dont know what the number is but I've been going to the track for 20 yrs and have used a 10 percenter every single time. Some of them were with actual tellers.

You've been going to the track for 20 years? I figured you were around 20 years old....crazy.

Anyway, I think it depends on the frequency and type of player you are. For someone who plays exotics regularly and relies on big hits, it makes little sense to pay someone over and over again. If it's a one time thing...okay maybe.

But ultimately people should be keeping accurate records of their playing....not just for the IRS, but for your own good.

[Vinman]

Some people might say that what happened to you guys is a "nice problem to have." The good news is that because the Derby Tri paid under $5,000, you guys had a signer, but no actual withholding at the window. Thank the racing Gods for small favors : )

Assuming the cashing transaction cannot be undone, the individual who signed for the winnings should withhold a mutually agreed upon sum from the other two for the taxes they owe.

The IRS actually has a form, 5754, that addresses this very scenario of multiple winners on a single racetrack bet of more than 300-1 odds. It allows for the winnings to be split in accordance with the percentage of ownership by each party at the time the winning ticket is cashed. The form is retained by the winner, not filed with the IRS. For future reference, go to www.irs.gov and in the search box in the upper right corner, type 5754. You will then be able to click open and print the form 5754. You will also see an extensive set of instructions for the use of this form. The latest update was in December 2010. But click the top link of 12/2008 to see the actual form itself, which has instructions on it.

It appears the track used the correct Federal withholding amount of 25% noted in the IRS updated guidelines. But my question is....why does that number even come into play at the time they cashed you out....unless they actually withheld 25% of your winnings at the window? Tell me they didn't : ) How much did you have the Tri for? $1.00 $2.00?

Finally, let me pass on something I found out regarding the withholding of state taxes when I was fortunate enough to cash, on behalf of my group, a winning ticket at the Sports Haven in CT for the first $1,000,000 guaranteed Pick 6 at Hollywood $53,357.60 back in June of 1998. The people at the Sports Haven later realized they'd initially made a mistake in withholding state tax, since I'm a resident of NJ not CT. So after letting me know this, they re-did the transaction before sending me my check for about 42K. You still owe the tax to your home state, but if you cash a "large signer" (over $5,000) in a state other than where you live, they can't withhold state tax at the time you cash...so you, rather than your home state, get the benefit of the "float" on state tax.

Anyway, your situation should be simple enough to smooth over with your "esteemed wagering colleagues" without any undue sweat. A simple phone call to an accountant will settle any doubt as to what withholding amount between you guys is correct for this situation.

Next time you guys hit a big one, get the form 5754 filled out and you can each sign for your own share of the booty and start your separate collections of losing tix.


Vinman

[andymays]

I didn't know there was also state withholding in some states. That would really be the sh#ts to have federal and state withholding.

[trackrat59]

FYI Helpful Hint - if the track you are betting allows a .50cent tri, punch your tix for .50cents and press the repeat button. This saved me a few times from paying anything. Depends on the payout but it's worth punching your tix this way.

[Zippy Chippy]

You've been going to the track for 20 years? I figured you were around 20 years old....crazy.

Anyway, I think it depends on the frequency and type of player you are. For someone who plays exotics regularly and relies on big hits, it makes little sense to pay someone over and over again. If it's a one time thing...okay maybe.

But ultimately people should be keeping accurate records of their playing....not just for the IRS, but for your own good.

Ok not sure what I did to make you think that but whatever. I have a friend that files on his winnings and often leaves broke. I always think leaving broke and having to claim taxes on winnings would be awful.

[Dahoss9698]

Ok not sure what I did to make you think that but whatever. I have a friend that files on his winnings and often leaves broke. I always think leaving broke and having to claim taxes on winnings would be awful.

You're making my head hurt. Tell your friend to manage his money better.

[JPinMaryland]

Just to respond to the suggestions:

It was not a big hit: $1976. (actually $1974 but I guess the cashier paid us an extra $2).

They did not withhold anything when we cashed, he gave us $1976 and some odd cents. The only reason the 25% + 7.5% thing came out was roomie looked it up on the internet and came out with 25% federal and 7.5% MD state taxes on this. So it's a future thing he will have to pay in december.

he does not itemize, he does the EZ form. Maybe he should switch to the long form?

Can we still do the form 5754? and will it help me get more cash right now?

Vinman; when you said:

"...the individual who signed for the winnings should withhold a mutually agreed upon sum from the other two for the taxes they owe.

Can you very carefully explain what is meant here? right now roomie (who basically lives paycheck to paycheck) has taken out 32.5% from me and the other guy in order to pay the taxes when it comes tax time. Does it make sense for him to do it this way? Is there any other way to do it so I can get more cash?

Personally I have had a large number of deductions the past few years and wll probably pay very little if any tax this year.

Thank everyone for your comments. very helpful. :ThmbUp:

[Zippy Chippy]

You're making my head hurt. Tell your friend to manage his money better.

Well nowadays we only get to the track together about twice a year together, but i'll tell him what you said. Thanks for all the sarcastic jabs tonight, hope it makes you sleep better

[Dahoss9698]

Well nowadays we only get to the track together about twice a year together, but i'll tell him what you said. Thanks for all the sarcastic jabs tonight, hope it makes you sleep better

You're welcome.

[andymays]

Just to respond to the suggestions:

It was not a big hit: $1976. (actually $1974 but I guess the cashier paid us an extra $2).

They did not withhold anything when we cashed, he gave us $1976 and some odd cents. The only reason the 25% + 7.5% thing came out was roomie looked it up on the internet and came out with 25% federal and 7.5% MD state taxes on this. So it's a future thing he will have to pay in december.

he does not itemize, he does the EZ form. Maybe he should switch to the long form?

Can we still do the form 5754? and will it help me get more cash right now?

Vinman; when you said:

"...the individual who signed for the winnings should withhold a mutually agreed upon sum from the other two for the taxes they owe.

Can you very carefully explain what is meant here? right now roomie (who basically lives paycheck to paycheck) has taken out 32.5% from me and the other guy in order to pay the taxes when it comes tax time. Does it make sense for him to do it this way? Is there any other way to do it so I can get more cash?

Personally I have had a large number of deductions the past few years and wll probably pay very little if any tax this year.

Thank everyone for your comments. very helpful. :ThmbUp:

At that number you two should get a third each and take him out to dinner. Giving him 25% and 7% or whatever is way too much. Especially this time of year.

[JohnGalt1]

Treat your handicapping like a business.

Keep records of all bets--wins and losses--amounts of wagers and for every type of bet. (ie. win bets, trifecta bets, etc.) and for every track distance and type of race (ie. claiming maiden special, ect.)

This will also help in knowing if you are ahead or behind for the year, for each type of bet, and for each track.

It should take only a few minutes a day write down or enter in your computer, depending on how thorough you want to be.

It's also a good way to review your bets. Did your horse lose because you missed something that you can correct, or did it have trouble and you would've made the same bet again.

If audited, this will help with the IRS.

You wouldn't open a Dry Cleaner without accurate and complete records. Don't wing it like most people that go to the track.

[Striker]

Just to respond to the suggestions:

It was not a big hit: $1976. (actually $1974 but I guess the cashier paid us an extra $2).

They did not withhold anything when we cashed, he gave us $1976 and some odd cents. The only reason the 25% + 7.5% thing came out was roomie looked it up on the internet and came out with 25% federal and 7.5% MD state taxes on this. So it's a future thing he will have to pay in december.

he does not itemize, he does the EZ form. Maybe he should switch to the long form?

Can we still do the form 5754? and will it help me get more cash right now?

Vinman; when you said:

"...the individual who signed for the winnings should withhold a mutually agreed upon sum from the other two for the taxes they owe.

Can you very carefully explain what is meant here? right now roomie (who basically lives paycheck to paycheck) has taken out 32.5% from me and the other guy in order to pay the taxes when it comes tax time. Does it make sense for him to do it this way? Is there any other way to do it so I can get more cash?

Personally I have had a large number of deductions the past few years and wll probably pay very little if any tax this year.

Thank everyone for your comments. very helpful. :ThmbUp:
Your friend will not have to pay 32% off on the winnings here when he files his taxes. I take the standard deduction here in Illinois and I always owe the state income tax on the winnings and that is it, which is now like 5.5%. So, I would say that the 7.5% is what your friend is going to have to owe and that is worst case scenario. There are some accounting experts(former IRS guys) on here that I'm sure will chime in soon for you with their knowledge.

[jelly]

In the future consider using a 10%.It would have cost the three of you $65 each and no headacres.


32.5% is high,try to get it down to 22%.

[dansan]

10% is the only way to go

[JPinMaryland]

I agree I should treat it like a business, but I havent played any races since last years KY dby! Honestly I thought I would maybe play a buck or two here and there but my gambling days were over.

sat's trifecta was the only bet I've made in the past year. which I think is a good thing for me.

Not to diss gambling, but it was taking so much time that I gave it up mostly because of the time (I was getting separated, and taking care of my dad who passed away in Aug), I didnt really gamble a whole lot of money.

[andymays]

Has anyone ever considered that when you give someone a ticket to cash they could cash it and keep the money. What are you going to do about it if they say it was their ticket or the just walk off?

Although a lot of people do it, its' illegal to have someone sign for you and cash your ticket.

From my personal experience if you have the money on you you're better off making bets on your own and cashing on your own. Partnerships have a way of breaking up friendships eventually.

just sayin,

[jelly]

Andy,most 10% are at the track every day.If they screw someone they can't come back to the track word gets around.

Also,tracks are cracking down on this type of thing so you should be discreet.

If you don't know anyone and are a first timer then you should be very careful.

[Edward DeVere]

To report losses against winnnings, he must file Schedule A and not receive the standard deduction.


And if there's a bigger crock in the entire tax code, I'd like to hear it. Where's Joseph Heller when we need him?

[InTheRiver68]

It was $1,976.20. I hit it, too.

The 25% and 7.5% figures are what the federal and state withholding are in the event that (a) the winning ticket is a signer *and* over $5,000, or (b) you request that backup withholding be taken out of your winnings (which you can do if either you request it or if you don't wish to give your SSN).

If your roommate is living paycheck to paycheck, doesn't have his own place, and files the 1040-EZ, he is NOT going to owe 25% and 7.5%. He's in a much lower income bracket than that. BY THE WAY, he will NOT be able to file that 1040-EZ this year. If you have even a single W-2G, you MUST file the long form, form 1040.

- InTheRiver68

[InTheRiver68]

...but if you cash a "large signer" (over $5,000) in a state other than where you live, they can't withhold state tax at the time you cash...so you, rather than your home state, get the benefit of the "float" on state tax. ...
That's not always the case; it depends on the state. In MD (where this drama is taking place), a $5,000 plus IRS-reportable transaction will have 25% withheld for Federal taxes, plus 7.5% withheld for state taxes if the winner is a state resident, or 4.75% if the winner is an out-of-stater.

- InTheRiver68

[Vinman]

Has anyone ever considered that when you give someone a ticket to cash they could cash it and keep the money. What are you going to do about it if they say it was their ticket or the just walk off?

Although a lot of people do it, its' illegal to have someone sign for you and cash your ticket.

From my personal experience if you have the money on you you're better off making bets on your own and cashing on your own. Partnerships have a way of breaking up friendships eventually.

just sayin,

Agreed. What happens if the IRS audits the 10% guy and he decides to help the IRS find his "customers" in exchange for a "better deal" from them. The correct way to deal with signers is to sign for them yourself and save every losing ticket or wagering account statement documenting your losses so you can offset winnings at tax time. An acceptable alternative, IMHO, would be to have a family member sign who is in a much lower income bracket than you.

Using "ten percenters" who you don't know is simply asking for trouble.

Vinman

[andymays]

Andy,most 10% are at the track every day.If they screw someone they can't come back to the track word gets around.

Also,tracks are cracking down on this type of thing so you should be discreet.

If you don't know anyone and are a first timer then you should be very careful.

And a lot of them aren't choir boys. I've seen it happen a couple of times for well over 5k each time.

[Vinman]

That's not always the case; it depends on the state. In MD (where this drama is taking place), a $5,000 plus IRS-reportable transaction will have 25% withheld for Federal taxes, plus 7.5% withheld for state taxes if the winner is a state resident, or 4.75% if the winner is an out-of-stater.

- InTheRiver68

Remind me not to bet the ponies in MD : )

Vinman

[riskman]

Gee, maybe the Tri winners should visit some of the wealth management groups in New York. It would be a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. :rolleyes:

The Feds and State tax your individual earnings, salary,income is from dividends and capital gains, generated by everything from appreciated real estate—yes, there is some left—to stocks and the sale of family businesses.

The money you earn which is taxed you decide to risk making a winning wager is taxed again by the track[takeout] then is taxed again by the Feds depending on the amount wagered and won.

It is the American way unless you are a high earner who can afford a shrewd accountant or attorney. Today is rife with opportunity to avoid, or at least defer, tax bills, according to tax specialists and public records. It's limited only by the boundaries of taste, creativity, and the ability to understand some very complex shelters. The average earner is screwed.

[jelly]

And a lot of them aren't choir boys. I've seen it happen a couple of times for well over 5k each time.



Anything over 5k you don't use a 10%.

[andymays]

Anything over 5k you don't use a 10%.

Because of the withholding?

What if you have a tri several times and colletively the tickets are worth over 5k or whatever?

What I'm saying is anytime you let someone else take control over the situation things happen. Especially when it comes to money.

[Dahoss9698]

Because of the withholding?

What if you have a tri several times and colletively the tickets are worth over 5k or whatever?

What I'm saying is anytime you let someone else take control over the situation things happen. Especially when it comes to money.

Not that it really needs to be said, but the advice you, John Galt, IntheRiver and Vinman have provided in this thread is spot on.

Hopefully the thread starter and anyone with a similar question is paying attention.

[thaskalos]

At some OTBs, business is so bad...that the 10%ers have reduced their rates to 5%...

Best deal in town IMO...

[jelly]

Anything over 5k is an automtic withholding.


If you have several signers worth over 5k i'd recommend one(or two) at a time.

You don't just let anyone cash it.He'll some of the best people to ask work for the track.

If you go to the track once a year and hit one let a relative or friend on ssi cash it for you.They might even enjoy the day out.

[Mineshaft]

This does surprise me. I'll never understand using a 10%er. Never.




I always use someone to sign my signers. Alwaysssssssssssssss.. Its freakin 10% you tight wads.

[Dahoss9698]

I always use someone to sign my signers. Alwaysssssssssssssss.. Its freakin 10% you tight wads.

Now I know I'm right.

Anyone else see the irony in this post?

[andymays]

Now I know I'm right.

Anyone else see the irony in this post?

Yes, you are right.

[chickenhead]

I don't itemize, so 10% would probably work out to be cheaper than what I end up paying...but I don't think I'd ever hand over a ticket to anyone at a racetrack. I don't particularly like having to go to the IRS window in the first place, I don't like anyone knowing I have any money whatsoever.

Just exactly where do these 10%ers hang out? I keep hearing about them, but I've never met one, or seen one. Is there a special handshake? Do they wear special clothes, or a jauntily placed hat? Do you wave your ticket around to attract them? Do you just randomly go around asking people if they'd cash your ticket?

I'm being mostly serious -- somehow I've spent more than a few days at the track and I've just missed this part of racetrack culture. I hear about them here, but I've never seen one.

[thaskalos]

I don't itemize, so 10% would probably work out to be cheaper than what I end up paying...but I don't think I'd ever hand over a ticket to anyone at a racetrack. I don't particularly like having to go to the IRS window in the first place, I don't like anyone knowing I have any money whatsoever.

Just exactly where do these 10%ers hang out? I keep hearing about them, but I've never met one, or seen one. Is there a special handshake? Do they wear special clothes, or a jauntily placed hat? Do you wave your ticket around to attract them? DO you just randomly go around asking people if they're a 10%er?

I'm being mostly serious -- somehow I've spent more than a few days at the track and I've just missed this part of racetrack culture. I hear about them here, but I've never seen one.
You don't have to look for the 10%ers...they are looking for you!

Just wait for a race where a longshot looks like a sure winner...and start rooting him home excitedly.

All the 10%ers in the place will come over to you and introduce themselves.

[dansan]

anything over 5k use a 12% :lol:

[Vinman]

I don't itemize, so 10% would probably work out to be cheaper than what I end up paying...but I don't think I'd ever hand over a ticket to anyone at a racetrack. I don't particularly like having to go to the IRS window in the first place, I don't like anyone knowing I have any money whatsoever.

Just exactly where do these 10%ers hang out? I keep hearing about them, but I've never met one, or seen one. Is there a special handshake? Do they wear special clothes, or a jauntily placed hat? Do you wave your ticket around to attract them? Do you just randomly go around asking people if they'd cash your ticket?

I'm being mostly serious -- somehow I've spent more than a few days at the track and I've just missed this part of racetrack culture. I hear about them here, but I've never seen one.

Back in the mid 60's, before the lottery, there was the Twin Double wager at Yonkers, which once paid as much as $171,000 to a 21 year old Deli clerk by the name of Ernie Dahlman, who has been known to occasionally post here on PA.

In 1964, my Dad and a friend of his actually cashed a Twin Double for $8,800. It was basically a Pick 4 wager, but back then they didn't have the tote capability to offer the bet as a single ticket wager covering 4 races, so they ran it as two consecutive daily doubles. If you hit the first two races, you would have to go to up to the mutuel windows and exchange your winning ticket(s) on the first two legs for tickets on the next two. Stories abound of sharp eyed "goons" who would hang out near the windows looking to buy up live twin double tickets.

They most likely didn't wear distinctive hats or offer their potential customers a special handshake, but they could smell money. I can tell you my Dad and his friend were not comfortable driving home on the Palisades Interstate Parkway that night, but Dad's winnings paid for the carpeting in our new house : )

[jelly]

I don't itemize, so 10% would probably work out to be cheaper than what I end up paying...but I don't think I'd ever hand over a ticket to anyone at a racetrack. I don't particularly like having to go to the IRS window in the first place, I don't like anyone knowing I have any money whatsoever.

Just exactly where do these 10%ers hang out? I keep hearing about them, but I've never met one, or seen one. Is there a special handshake? Do they wear special clothes, or a jauntily placed hat? Do you wave your ticket around to attract them? Do you just randomly go around asking people if they'd cash your ticket?

I'm being mostly serious -- somehow I've spent more than a few days at the track and I've just missed this part of racetrack culture. I hear about them here, but I've never seen one.




The Tellers know.

[JustRalph]

I haven't had a signer for a few years, but the State Tax deal is real.

I hit a nice one in 2002. 3 days later I got a letter from the State of Ohio "reminding me " that at the end of the year I would have to "declare" or something like that. 3 friggin days later...........

[takeout]

If you hit the first two races, you would have to go to up to the mutuel windows and exchange your winning ticket(s) on the first two legs for tickets on the next two.Anyone remember the “Big Exacta” at CT years ago? Same type of thing. Two exactas back to back and you either turned in your live tickets from the first half or sold them to any free enterprise guy that you saw standing in the middle of the floor with a bunch of cash in his hand. Good times.

[takeout]

Remind me not to bet the ponies in MD : )Me too! Like I needed a reminder. ;) (19 years and counting)

Everyone ought to be boycotting Maryland. They went beyond absurd a long time ago.

[JohnGalt1]

A few years ago a 10%er got burned. He cashed so many tickets for people that the IRS audited him and wanted taxes paid on "all" of his winners.

A guy sitting at my table won a trifecta that paid--if I remember about $400--and a guy from across the room offered to take the ticket to the teller for him. The guy paid him about $300. The 10%er kept about 25%.

Moral of the stories--I always cash my own tickets.

[Pell Mell]

A few years ago a 10%er got burned. He cashed so many tickets for people that the IRS audited him and wanted taxes paid on "all" of his winners.

A guy sitting at my table won a trifecta that paid--if I remember about $400--and a guy from across the room offered to take the ticket to the teller for him. The guy paid him about $300. The 10%er kept about 25%.

Moral of the stories--I always cash my own tickets.

Why would the guy need someone to cash a 400 dollar ticket. Or maybe your a zero short in your accounting.

[Pell Mell]

On occasion I have signed for tickets but have used 10 per-centers for years and years. These were ALL friends and relatives. Christ, I had a dozen or more aunts, uncles and grandparents that were retired. And they never had to pay tax because most of them didn't have enough income to even require filing. The only time they filed was to get back what the track took out when it was over 5 Gs. The big question I have is WHY do you feel you must cash the ticket here and now? :lol:

[takeout]

Why would the guy need someone to cash a 400 dollar ticket. Or maybe your a zero short in your accounting.I wondered about that too. ??

Reminded me of a Beyer column from a long time ago about when the feds were hanging around Charles Town trying to catch 10%ers. I was a newbie at the time and even I knew something was up. (They had shined shoes and racing forms turned to the wrong places.) I noticed them around for a week or two and then they disappeared and I didn’t think any more of it until I saw the column. I think it said that they ended up arresting two guys over in the clubhouse when they saw one hand the other a ten or a twenty. (Kind of hard to be a 10%er unless someone is handing you at least $60, isn’t it? :) ) I didn’t even know what a 10%er was at the time and evidently they didn’t either. I think they put those poor guys through the wringer for nothing. Our tax dollars at work.

[judd]

all you do is sign-report winnings at tax time and report losses (just your losses cant exceed your winnings-just even steven

[JPinMaryland]

all you do is sign-report winnings at tax time and report losses (just your losses cant exceed your winnings-just even steven

yeah I get it now. I didnt have my SS card handy or else I would have signed.

[statepierback]

I have hit many signers over the years. I can't get away from it when betting on line. Uncle Sam screws me. I'm getting taxed on both ends. It ends up costing me the same tax rate as wages. The fair thing to do is share that burden with the individual who signed for that ticket. That amount is dependent on the amount of yearly income earned. As for 10%ers its a win/win situation for me. I'm not saying I've ever used one, but if I did there were never any issues. Most obt's have them.

[JohnGalt1]

Why would the guy need someone to cash a 400 dollar ticket. Or maybe your a zero short in your accounting.

Of course it had to be over $600. He probably got about $400 from the guy.

He was still a sucker for falling for it.

[depalma113]

How many people that hit 5 of 6 during the Breeders Cup fix six scandal lost over $40,000 because they used a 10%er to cash their winning ticket?