the moss guy on NBC

[lamboguy]

during one of his segments on derby day coverage on versus television, an offshoot of NBC, mentioned about the problems with the use of lassix. he had trainers on that no lassix was the worst thing that could possibly happen. right now there is a bill in congress to get rid of all pre-race drugs. moss came up with the compromise of the matter to not allow lassix for stakes races. i think he got it backwards, what i would do is not allow lassix for younger horses as long as they really don't bleed. if they bleed during a race and do need it according to a qualified vet sanctioned by racing, then i would allow it because of the shortage in horses. the no use of lassix would be good in my opinion for training horses. the less of any medication is always going to be for horses in long run

[sonnyp]

during one of his segments on derby day coverage on versus television, an offshoot of NBC, mentioned about the problems with the use of lassix. he had trainers on that no lassix was the worst thing that could possibly happen. right now there is a bill in congress to get rid of all pre-race drugs. moss came up with the compromise of the matter to not allow lassix for stakes races. i think he got it backwards, what i would do is not allow lassix for younger horses as long as they really don't bleed. if they bleed during a race and do need it according to a qualified vet sanctioned by racing, then i would allow it because of the shortage in horses. the no use of lassix would be good in my opinion for training horses. the less of any medication is always going to be for horses in long run

i've found, among the trainers ive worked with, the opinion is that all horses bleed under the rigors of racing. some bleed only slightly in the deep cavities of their lungs and the bleeding is of no consequence. the rest bleed at various levels all the way up to the point where you can see it gushing out their nostrils. obviously, the more they bleed, the less they can breath.

the problem is really in the scaring of the tissue the bursting blood vessels leave behind. the tissue should be spongy and flexible. once they start to rupture it looses its elasticity and is even more likely to rupture again. the more they bleed, the more likely they are to bleed.

lasix is a great preventive aid to lessen bleeding. it has its negatives but if managed properly its a tremendous aid to a race horse.

if it were not for its use in racing here, many horses who have left europe and the orient and come here, would no longer be racing

[ukbro00]

i've found, among the trainers ive worked with, the opinion is that all horses bleed under the rigors of racing. some bleed only slightly in the deep cavities of their lungs and the bleeding is of no consequence. the rest bleed at various levels all the way up to the point where you can see it gushing out their nostrils. obviously, the more they bleed, the less they can breath.

the problem is really in the scaring of the tissue the bursting blood vessels leave behind. the tissue should be spongy and flexible. once they start to rupture it looses its elasticity and is even more likely to rupture again. the more they bleed, the more likely they are to bleed.

lasix is a great preventive aid to lessen bleeding. it has its negatives but if managed properly its a tremendous aid to a race horse.

if it were not for its use in racing here, many horses who have left europe and the orient and come here, would no longer be racing


I've heard this argument many times as well, and I don't have evidence to not support it, but, how do the German horses survive the "rigors of racing"? Do they not run hard? Do they just bleed through their nostrils and nobody cares? There is a major disconnect, and I don't know why.

[classhandicapper]

The upside of not allowing drugs in stakes is the "theory" that allowing them in stakes is what is allowing bleeders and others to perform well at the highest levels of competition and pass their infirmities on to their offspring.

[Stillriledup]

Stakes races generally have much bigger betting pools...eliminating drugs from stakes races at least protects the people who are betting those races.

[Robert Goren]

Not every horse is a bleeder, but almost every horse in the program has an L next to their name. That is a problem.

[classhandicapper]

Not every horse is a bleeder, but almost every horse in the program has an L next to their name. That is a problem.

The one problem with limiting Lasix to bleeders is that I've seen evidence that Lasix is a performance enhancer. So that would have the undesirable impact of rewarding bleeders.

I'm of the opinion that horses should more or less be treated like humans. There is nothing wrong with using drugs and treatments to relieve pain and promote more rapid healing. They probably just shouldn't be performing on them for a variety of reasons.

[sonnyp]

I've heard this argument many times as well, and I don't have evidence to not support it, but, how do the German horses survive the "rigors of racing"? Do they not run hard? Do they just bleed through their nostrils and nobody cares? There is a major disconnect, and I don't know why.


im sure the german horses are no different than any others.

here's a coincidence though. when clenbuterol (bronchial diolator used on bleeders) first came into the game here, it's origin was germany. it came in dark green canisters with german labels.

[cj]

I've heard this argument many times as well, and I don't have evidence to not support it, but, how do the German horses survive the "rigors of racing"? Do they not run hard? Do they just bleed through their nostrils and nobody cares? There is a major disconnect, and I don't know why.

I thought it was great that our Derby winner was out of a German bred mare.

[sonnyp]

I thought it was great that our Derby winner was out of a German bred mare.


i THINK I REMEMBER watching barry irwin being interviewed a couple years ago, maybe a m saratoga, and e was saying he was going to explore the german and south african markets for racing stock cause in could no longer compete in the american market.

[Delawaretrainer]

The fact that lasix is coming up as an issue is such a joke to me. Who cares? Betting a first time lasix horse has always been a good angle.

The number one issue for me is the supertrainers who I suspect are using serious performance enhancers. I see their records, their horses look like Arnold Schwartzineger and their numbers off the claim are crazy. There are substances/roids now that the horses pee out in 48 hours. You can give it every day, build endurance then withdraw it 2 days before. Maybe do more research for ITTP testing. I heard they need 50k to develop a test. How about put the energy into that? EPO testing? These are all more pressing issues than lasix.

Maybe I am missing something here. If removing lasix with allow current testing routines to uncover these other substances, I am all for it. Otherwise, who cares? It's listing in the program unlike the other stuff these guys are using.

[Robert Goren]

The fact that lasix is coming up as an issue is such a joke to me. Who cares? Betting a first time lasix horse has always been a good angle.

The number one issue for me is the supertrainers who I suspect are using serious performance enhancers. I see their records, their horses look like Arnold Schwartzineger and their numbers off the claim are crazy. There are substances/roids now that the horses pee out in 48 hours. You can give it every day, build endurance then withdraw it 2 days before. Maybe do more research for ITTP testing. I heard they need 50k to develop a test. How about put the energy into that? EPO testing? These are all more pressing issues than lasix.

Maybe I am missing something here. If removing lasix with allow current testing routines to uncover these other substances, I am all for it. Otherwise, who cares? It's listing in the program unlike the other stuff these guys are using. That is the idea. It is known for its masking ability

[5k-claim]

I thought it was great that our Derby winner was out of a German bred mare.I agree. But I also think that it would have been even better if Team Valor had not raced her on Lasix her entire career in the U.S.

The same goes for the sire.

And even Animal Kingdom himself, considering the sound stock he came from. He went on Lasix and an adjunct his second start as a 2yo for Irwin & Co.

.

[Kelso]

when clenbuterol (bronchial diolator used on bleeders) first came into the game here, it's origin was germany. it came in dark green canisters with german labels.Produced in a Munich bunker, perhaps? :D