Twinspires Derby Pool ???

[MAGICHORSEMAN]

Does anyone know how the twinspires derby pool did today? I do already know that they did not hit the pick 6 or the super high 5.

Did they manage to hit any of their bets?

ok thanks in advance

[forced89]

They got back about $73,000 of their $100,000 based on a couple of Pick 6 tickets (5 of 6) and something else.

[horses4courses]

That is over 30 times better than the Rainbow 6 play........

When will people realize what a poor risk that is for their money?

Even if they scoop huge, the ROI won't be great.

[Kelso]

The pool had eight P6 tickets. Five of them bet the same horses in leg 2 ... #3, #6, #7 ... and a sixth ticket had those 3 horses plus the #4. (That sixth ticket was their 5/6 winner.)

I know squat about building P6 tickets, but such concentration in any leg ... with so much money to spread around ... doesn't make much sense to me. I think they need better coordination of their team's final products.

[MAGICHORSEMAN]

Gee I think they should have gone for the whole pick 6 pool once instead of hitting 5/6 eight times. You have to wonder what kind of experts they have picking the tickets for the $100,000 pool.

[horses4courses]

Gee I think they should have gone for the whole pick 6 pool once instead of hitting 5/6 eight times. You have to wonder what kind of experts they have picking the tickets for the $100,000 pool.

I don't doubt that they have some excellent handicappers picking the horses for these pools. Are they the best strategists at putting them together?
Probably not.

That's not the problem I have with these pools, though.
To me they are simply a PR exercise geared towards the small to medium players who would love to play big in the PK6, etc., but can't afford to.

Sure, they can take down an entire, or most of, a large exotic pool on a big race day. But for what? Bragging rights?

A really huge day for this syndicate play would be a 1000-2000% return on investment. Of course, they haven't had a day that good yet.
Nice hit, but is it really what the little guy wants?
I think not - the small bettor wants a lumberyard for a toothpick.
Not gonna happen with this bunch.

I can't see them sustaining $100k plays for much longer.

[Stillriledup]

Gee I think they should have gone for the whole pick 6 pool once instead of hitting 5/6 eight times. You have to wonder what kind of experts they have picking the tickets for the $100,000 pool.

The experts are probably decent enough, but when you are obligated to 'answer to' many investors, you have to cover as many combinations as possible, which means one large completely inefficient ticket.

[Vinman]

From the Twin Spires.com website....why don't they just focus on the Pick 6 and forget about the Super High 5. Ridiculous......

The Players' Pool will go after the Pick 6 and Super High-5 carryovers for racing at Churchill Downs on May 12th that are a result of carryovers from Saturday's Kentucky Derby. The pool opens for contributions Monday, May 9th and will close for contributions on Thursday, May 12th – approx 5 hours before the Pick 6 goes to post (Pick 6 first post TBD), or if the pool fills before then. Don't get shut out. TwinSpires.com members can contribute as little as $10 into the pool. Our expert panel will utilize those funds to select the group tickets that the contributing members share proportionately. The Players’ Pool is designed to be educational and fun and is no way guaranteed to make positive return. While the Players’ Pool has had success in the past, that is in no way an indication of future performance.


Vinman

[forced89]

They got back about $73,000 of their $100,000 based on a couple of Pick 6 tickets (5 of 6) and something else.

Today they returned about $316,000 from their $80,000 carryover pool and probably made a lot of their little guy customers happy which is why I think they do this. Just for the heck of it I put $100 in the pool and got back about $400. Nothing spectacular, but not bad either.

[horses4courses]

Today they returned about $316,000 from their $80,000 carryover pool and probably made a lot of their little guy customers happy which is why I think they do this. Just for the heck of it I put $100 in the pool and got back about $400. Nothing spectacular, but not bad either.

They were due.......
Recent returns have not been so good.

The article on brisnet.com mentioned that the plays made by the TwinSpires
syndicate have shown a healthy flat-bet profit.
This could well be true, but it would be nice to have figures to back it up.

[rrpic6]

They were due.......
Recent returns have not been so good.

The article on brisnet.com mentioned that the plays made by the TwinSpires
syndicate have shown a healthy flat-bet profit.
This could well be true, but it would be nice to have figures to back it up.

The following is from May of 2009 on this very subject:

As some of you might know, I was in the original Player's Pool in 2004, started by the fine folks at Beulah Park and Winticket.com. When Churchill Downs bought out Winticket and BRIS a few years ago, they kept the Player's Pool concept. I'm proud to say we had quite a run. In the years that I was involved, I'm estimating we doubled everyone's money, collecting 500K and giving back about a Million dollars. Some say "'BIG DEAL"! I say find any stockbroker in America that has doubled people's money in approximately 14 days, which is about how many times I was involved with Rich Nilsen from BRIS, along with Brad Anderson from Columbus, Stanley Bavish, and a few others that helped out. In the 2006 KY. Derby the Pick 6 paid about 125K, in 2007 we had 2 of the 4 tickets for about 500K. I always enjoyed the banter here on PA the times we did not win. I also tried to explain how the time constraints and computer problems encountered during the process.

In 2008, Twinspires made quite a few changes, including replacing myself with a different handicapper. Rich and myself hade tried to incorporate the Superfectas previously, as its payoffs were enormous in many Derbies. IMO, the Hi-5 is not a good idea, as the pool money is not enough to generate a big payout. I know Rich does the best he can to contruct the tickets in the allotted time. As the clock ticks, he must spend all the money collected. We would have liked to have had a computer program made up to separate our "A", "B", "C", selections, to have made hundreds of smaller tickets, but it never happened. I agree the "caveman ticket" sometimes looks ridiculous. However, we did single Street Sense in 2007 on one of the two winning tickets. We've also made blunders by singling Dylan Thomas on most tickets in the 2007 Breeders Cup! (Maybe that's why I got the boot)! Hope this helps out a little.

RR

[exiles]

From the Twin Spires.com website....why don't they just focus on the Pick 6 and forget about the Super High 5. Ridiculous......

( The Players’ Pool is designed to be educational and fun and is no way guaranteed to make positive return. While the Players’ Pool has had success in the past, that is in no way an indication of future performance.


Vinman

TRANSLATION: The players pool is for the benefit of TWINNSPIRES screw the players. that is $100,000 guaranteed extra handle for them.

[toddbowker]

TRANSLATION: The players pool is for the benefit of TWINNSPIRES screw the players. that is $100,000 guaranteed extra handle for them.
Actually, that's not true at all. At least not in the way you are implying.

The Players' Pool was created as a promotional tool at AmericaTab to offer a bit of fun for its customers, and to give AmericaTab a bit of notoriety at a time when it was just beginning to compete with the likes of YouBet and TVG.

Although it certainly results in a bit more handle on any day it's done, it was never intended to be a direct moneymaker for the company.

[Kelso]

it was never intended to be a direct moneymaker for the company.If the Pool is truly intended to be a promotion, and since the Derby is run at Churchill, TwinSpires should offer it takeout-free. (When the Breeders' Cup is at other tracks, takeout should be only the signal fee.)