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MV McKee
10-28-2003, 03:46 AM
I was curious if anyone else used a shotgun (spread wide) approach to Breeder's Cup races.
In looking at the past 8 years of results, I have come to the conclusion that the best way to play the Breeder's Cup races is to invest in the Superfecta and Pick3 pools.
I don't make a line in the same manner as I do for day to day races at tracks I am intimately familiar with. I just don't have a good enough handle on all the entrants to produce anything even remotely accurate.

Because of the huge influx of "casual" public money I feel there is a larger than usual margin for error. So, for the Breeder's Cup I do things differently.
The night before, rather than make a line, I make a text document to use as a rough guideline for my betting the next day.
Rather than handicap thoroughly, I just categorize a few things:
The race:
Is this a race where I am simply spreading trying to beat a fav or where I have an actual strong opinion.

Th horses:
1) Horses I am making a case for )almost always longshots)
2) Horses I am making a case against (likely to be overbet, not always favs)
3) Horses I eliminate from all money positions (1st - 4th).

I also throw in a bunch of notes to myself on things to check as the day progresses. Such as how the track is playing (vs my assumptions) or how a trainer with multiple entries is doing.

This is a far cry from how I usually handicap and wager on races. But I have not been very successful with the BC using my usual everyday approaches.

I am pasting the draft I used during this years cup. please don't laugh, there are some ludicrous picks in there.
I am just trying to pick some brains in here and find out if anyone else uses a similar approach, or also feels that the BC races involve a COMPLETLY different approach that the methods they usually use. The other problem is that there are so few horses I can eliminate. Out of 91 this year, i could only eliminate 17. So in some cases, I am throwing $500 into a superfecta pool, all on $1 tickets. Not sure if this is a smart way to invest. Certainly not on a day to day basis. But I am not certain it isn't warranted on BC day. Any opinions?

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Distaff:Moderate, spread v.s PlayAgainst
Profit scenario is Sightseek not running.
Assuming Cal based fillies have advantage.
Should be moderate pace.

1)Elloluv-2LO, Trainer
2)Got Koko-Against pace in last, good track
3)Lady Tak-Most likely non Cal after fav
LS)Adoration-3LO, ins speed did well Friday

PlayAgainst:
Sightseek-SoSo SA record, Frankel poor BC record
Take Charge Lady-Terrible last

Eliminations:
Buy The Sport

Juvenile Fillies:Weak, Key Hollywood Story
Profit scenario is Halfbridled not running.


1)Hollywood Story-Blinks, CalBased, closed into slow fracs last
2)Society Selection-Closer, 3Life,2Route
3)Victory U. S. A.-Bailey, ok pace in last, CalBased
LS)Zosima-Day, patient may get late part

PlayAgainst:
Forest Music-2Life
Halfbridled-Post, slow pace last
Class Above-No adversity yet, PT

Eliminations:
Dixie High
Renaissance Lady
Vino Tinto
Tarlow

Mile:Strong, Spread playing closers
Course playing to closers since aerration.
Pace should be good.
Cal Based assumption, check previous races

1)Irish Warrior-Trainer, like turf distance group in Cal better than middle distance group
2)Touch of the Blues-Peaking, Drysdale
3)Designed for Luck-Can't pitch, most likely pace survivor
LS)Century City-CalBased, last was big

PlayAgainst:
Peace Rules-Don't like race choice, against course style, check Frankel
Special Ring-Dull last
Oasis Dream-Pace bad fit?

Eliminations:
None

Sprint:Weak, Spread
Strong opinion is against Aldebaran and Shake You Down
No key horse to use.

1)Bluesthestandard-Cal based, best out of Ancient Title but race was not strong
2)Captain Squire-Dicey, but good trip, mod pace race
3)Cajun Beat-Last best in race, non-Cal but if price, 3yo?
LS)Private Horde-Blue collar grinder, middle distance possible part if hot pace

PlayAgainst:
Shake You Down-Ins on pace bad trip, Lake in SoCal?
Valid Video-Mth based, bad leg up surface for Cal (0-12)
Aldebaran-Typical Summer Belmont sprint big figs that don't run well in Cal at 6, Check Frankel
Yankee Gentleman-Veered in last, hung. bad sign

Eliminations:
Zavata
Great Notion

Filly&Mare Turf:Moderate
Strong opinions against Tates Creek and Musical Chimes
Likely fav looks tough
Frankel is key on Megahertz, usual poor BC races, CHECK prior entrants

1)Megahertz-15-1 or up, good course, last was against shape and bias, calBased, Check Frankel
2)Islington-Best in race last year, non-Cal based
3)Voodoo Dancer-Ran well on course, comes in on odd pattern, good trainer, non-Cal based
LS)Yesterday-Seems top Euro???

PlayAgainst:
Tates Creek-May get hammered based on course record. Last 2 were poor though, declining form
Musical Chimes-May get hammered off illusion race in weak Yellow Ribbon (timer malfunction), Euro bounce pattern

Eliminations:
Riskaverse
Bien Nichole

Juvenile:Moderate
Strong opinion is against Cuvee, dependant on Asmussen in previous races
Fast pace likely, like top 2
Action This Day likely 2nd, 3rd or 4th KEY
Top 2 likely in Superfecta (only closers)

1)Action This Day-Cal-based, 3Life, 2Route. perfect pattern and against shape last. Slow race, Check Mandella
2)Tiger Hunt-Closed in traffic, Day
3)Chapel Royal-Most likely pace type
LS)Minister Eric-Weak, but Cal-based, others in DelMar proven non-routers. Being talked up, check Mandella

PlayAgainst:
Race For Glory-Inflated Beyer in last, poor post for style and race setup, Check Lukas
Cuvee-Figs too high, surface and venue?, poor post, check Asmussen

Eliminations:
Capitano
Siphonizer
Mambo Train
Consecrate

Turf:Weak
Check closer bias from previous turf races.
Storming Home and Johar likely both in Superfecta if Cal-Based assumption holds

1)Storming Home
2)High Chaparral
3)Johar
LS)The Tin Man

PlayAgainst:
Sulamani
Falbrav

Eliminations:
Toccet
Balto Star

Classic:Moderate, spread on lightly raced
Dicey race but basing plays on fast interior fractions compromising 3 play against horses as well as
schedules up to race and Cal-based, plus check trainers other horses today for all.
Race may be playable on wide spread if Funny Cide is below 8-1 (no chance at all)

1)Hold That Tiger-Best last, check other O'Brien
2)Pleasantly Perfect-Cal-Based, key for ITM
3)Ten Most Wanted-Perfect trips but right style
LS)Volponi-May pop like last year, but feel that was AP

PlayAgainst:
Perfect Drift-Mid race fractions compromise, heavy campaign, no improve, not Cal-based, Trainer??
Medaglia d'Oro-See above
Congaree-See Above

Eliminations:
Funny Cide

Valuist
10-28-2003, 09:58 AM
I usually use a shotgun approach for the Breeder's Cup races. Unfortunately, it didn't work well this year. There's a number of horses I just could not use; Adoration, Six Perfections (due to the post), Johar (gimme a break, the horse can't last after a 1:15 pace), Pleasantly Perfect (underestimated whatever Mandella was doing). I did like Cajun Beat but actually keyed him 2nd in exactas; bet Touch of the Blues to win. I also had Action this Day in the 2nd slot in exactas under Race for Glory and Cuvee. Some days it isn't meant to be. But I do like the shotgun approach. You will snag some big payoffs.

canuck
10-28-2003, 10:58 AM
MV

Howzabout good ole fashioned betting to win on anything 10-1 or over among your top four??

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Distaff:Moderate, spread v.s PlayAgainst
Profit scenario is Sightseek not running.
Assuming Cal based fillies have advantage.
Should be moderate pace.

1)Elloluv-2LO, Trainer NO PLAY
2)Got Koko-Against pace in last, good track NO PLAY

3)Lady Tak-Most likely non Cal after fav OUT
LS)Adoration-3LO, ins speed did well Friday WINNER $83

PlayAgainst:
Sightseek-SoSo SA record, Frankel poor BC record
Take Charge Lady-Terrible last

Eliminations:
Buy The Sport

Juvenile Fillies:Weak, Key Hollywood Story
Profit scenario is Halfbridled not running.


1)Hollywood Story-Blinks, CalBased, closed into slow fracs last OUT
2)Society Selection-Closer, 3Life,2Route NO PLAY

3)Victory U. S. A.-Bailey, ok pace in last, CalBased NO PLAY
LS)Zosima-Day, patient may get late part OUT
PlayAgainst:
Forest Music-2Life
Halfbridled-Post, slow pace last
Class Above-No adversity yet, PT

Eliminations:
Dixie High
Renaissance Lady
Vino Tinto
Tarlow

Mile:Strong, Spread playing closers
Course playing to closers since aerration.
Pace should be good.
Cal Based assumption, check previous races

1)Irish Warrior-Trainer, like turf distance group in Cal better than middle distance group OUT
2)Touch of the Blues-Peaking, Drysdale OUT
3)Designed for Luck-Can't pitch, most likely pace survivor NO PLAY

LS)Century City-CalBased, last was big OUT

PlayAgainst:
Peace Rules-Don't like race choice, against course style, check Frankel
Special Ring-Dull last
Oasis Dream-Pace bad fit?

Eliminations:
None

Sprint:Weak, Spread
Strong opinion is against Aldebaran and Shake You Down
No key horse to use.

1)Bluesthestandard-Cal based, best out of Ancient Title but race was not strong OUT
2)Captain Squire-Dicey, but good trip, mod pace race OUT
3)Cajun Beat-Last best in race, non-Cal but if price, 3yo? WINNER $47.60
LS)Private Horde-Blue collar grinder, middle distance possible part if hot pace OUT

PlayAgainst:
Shake You Down-Ins on pace bad trip, Lake in SoCal?
Valid Video-Mth based, bad leg up surface for Cal (0-12)
Aldebaran-Typical Summer Belmont sprint big figs that don't run well in Cal at 6, Check Frankel
Yankee Gentleman-Veered in last, hung. bad sign

Eliminations:
Zavata
Great Notion

Filly&Mare Turf:Moderate
Strong opinions against Tates Creek and Musical Chimes
Likely fav looks tough
Frankel is key on Megahertz, usual poor BC races, CHECK prior entrants

1)Megahertz-15-1 or up, good course, last was against shape and bias, calBased, Check Frankel OUT
2)Islington-Best in race last year, non-Cal based NO PLAY

3)Voodoo Dancer-Ran well on course, comes in on odd pattern, good trainer, non-Cal based OUT
LS)Yesterday-Seems top Euro??? NO PLAY


PlayAgainst:
Tates Creek-May get hammered based on course record. Last 2 were poor though, declining form
Musical Chimes-May get hammered off illusion race in weak Yellow Ribbon (timer malfunction), Euro bounce pattern

Eliminations:
Riskaverse
Bien Nichole

Juvenile:Moderate
Strong opinion is against Cuvee, dependant on Asmussen in previous races
Fast pace likely, like top 2
Action This Day likely 2nd, 3rd or 4th KEY
Top 2 likely in Superfecta (only closers)

1)Action This Day-Cal-based, 3Life, 2Route. perfect pattern and against shape last. Slow race, Check Mandella WINNER $55.60
2)Tiger Hunt-Closed in traffic, Day NO PLAY

3)Chapel Royal-Most likely pace type NO PLAY

LS)Minister Eric-Weak, but Cal-based, others in DelMar proven non-routers. Being talked up, check Mandella
NO PLAY

PlayAgainst:
Race For Glory-Inflated Beyer in last, poor post for style and race setup, Check Lukas
Cuvee-Figs too high, surface and venue?, poor post, check Asmussen

Eliminations:
Capitano
Siphonizer
Mambo Train
Consecrate

Turf:Weak
Check closer bias from previous turf races.
Storming Home and Johar likely both in Superfecta if Cal-Based assumption holds

1)Storming Home NO PLAY

2)High Chaparral NO PLAY

3)Johar WINNER $13.60
LS)The Tin Man OUT
PlayAgainst:
Sulamani
Falbrav

Eliminations:
Toccet
Balto Star

Classic:Moderate, spread on lightly raced
Dicey race but basing plays on fast interior fractions compromising 3 play against horses as well as
schedules up to race and Cal-based, plus check trainers other horses today for all.
Race may be playable on wide spread if Funny Cide is below 8-1 (no chance at all)

1)Hold That Tiger-Best last, check other O'Brien NO PLAY

2)Pleasantly Perfect-Cal-Based, key for ITM WINNER $30.40
3)Ten Most Wanted-Perfect trips but right style NO PLAY

LS)Volponi-May pop like last year, but feel that was AP OUT

PlayAgainst:
Perfect Drift-Mid race fractions compromise, heavy campaign, no improve, not Cal-based, Trainer??
Medaglia d'Oro-See above
Congaree-See Above

Eliminations:
Funny Cide

Playing all horses at 10-1 or up would have given you

LS)Adoration-3LO, ins speed did well Friday WINNER $83
3)Cajun Beat-Last best in race, non-Cal but if price, 3yo? WINNER $47.60
)Action This Day-Cal-based, 3Life, 2Route. perfect pattern and against shape last. Slow race, Check Mandella WINNER $55.60
3)Johar WINNER $13.60
2)Pleasantly Perfect-Cal-Based, key for ITM WINNER $30.40

That is $228 returned

How much would you have had to lay out??

$36

Why screw with the exotics??

A lousy hundred bucks on the beak of all these steeds would have netted $9200

I wish you would have posted this stuff on Saturday (apologies in advance if you posted somewhere that I didnt see)

kenwoodallpromos
10-29-2003, 03:51 AM
Assumiing the track condition?? Good luck! A PA thread told Exactly what they did with the turf!! Workouts all that week and race resullts told the dirt condition! That is why although I did not have time to handicap, I predicted fast longshots and picked favorites only to show! / I stay away from stakes races because the difference between horses is small. That means whever you hear a negative about a horse toss it! (FC!)