Who is Herman Cain ?

[sonnyp]

this guy sounds good. he's believable. who is he ?

[DJofSD]

http://hotair.com/archives/2011/02/12/video-herman-cains-speech-to-cpac/

[JustRalph]

this guy sounds good. he's believable. who is he ?

A guy who could easily get my vote. I love the guy.

Many Many people calling for a Cain/West ticket.

He has been in broadcasting doing a show out of Atlanta for several years now. He is great to listen to.

[DJofSD]

His web site said he's suspended his radio broadcast while he's exploring a run for the office. Did I read that correctly?

[lsbets]

A guy who could easily get my vote. I love the guy.

Many Many people calling for a Cain/West ticket.

He has been in broadcasting doing a show out of Atlanta for several years now. He is great to listen to.

You're racist. :lol: :lol:

[dartman51]

this guy sounds good. he's believable. who is he ?

He's the Left's worst nightmare. If he runs, and the Tea Party help get him elected, the Left will have their racism remarks about the Tea Party, shoved up their a$$. He would get my vote. :ThmbUp:

[Tom]

I'm on board.

[Robert Goren]

The only difference between him and the rest of the Republicans is the color of his skin. But he still will not go very far. He will get lots of noise from conservatives, but almost none of them will vote for him.
He is the 2011-2012 verison of Alan Keyes. Every Republican loved him until they got into the voting booth.

[Tom]

A guy who could easily get my vote. I love the guy.

Many Many people calling for a Cain/West ticket.



Probably 20-25% of the libs out there would vote for that ticket.....thinking it was Kanye West!

[toetoe]

The only difference between him and the rest of the Republicans is the color of his skin.


Yes; and your point, sir ?

[PaceAdvantage]

He is the 2011-2012 verison of Alan Keyes. Every Republican loved him until they got into the voting booth.Ummmm....huh?

[fast4522]

I feel Herman Cain is genuine, so far I can say that I would vote for the man. I do think the race for the President is quite early and want to hear all these good men and what ideas they bring to the table. I am truly open to any person for President regardless, of race creed or color. The tax and spend platform is however an immediate elimination in my book for any consideration.

[DJofSD]

I want the guy to run just to see how the non-caucasians in the demo-rats react.

[GaryG]

I want the guy to run just to see how the non-caucasians in the demo-rats react.It would be the same way they react to a female conservative....with as much venom as they can muster. I would certainly vote for him. I think what the detective is saying is that conservatives are closet racists.

[hcap]

Slight correction, female WHACKO conservatives.

http://justjudyjudyjudy.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/sarah-palin-crazy.jpg

You betcha!

[cj's dad]

It would be the same way they react to a female conservative....with as much venom as they can muster. I would certainly vote for him. I think what the detective is saying is that conservatives are closet racists.

Absolutely. Point of fact is that Alan Keyes once ran for U.S. Senator from Md.

I heard him speak; the guy is a loon. He has nothing going for him. Thats why he doesn't get elected. It is not because of his skin color.

[mostpost]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren
He is the 2011-2012 verison of Alan Keyes. Every Republican loved him until they got into the voting booth.
Ummmm....huh?

Here's what he meant
In 1988, Keyes was drafted by the Maryland Republican Party to run for the United States Senate, and received 38 percent of the vote against victorious incumbent Democrat Paul Sarbanes.

1992 Senate election: Against Democrat Barbara Mikulski, he received 29 percent in the general election.[33]

Illinois United States Senate election, 2004 Keyes finished with 27% of the vote

The above is from wikipedia on Allen Keyes

[PaceAdvantage]

Ummmm...huh?

Every Republican loved Alan Keyes? I don't think so...(said in my best Jerry Seinfeld).

[Robert Goren]

I was referring to his 2000 presidential bid. He was the darling of the Christian right early that year. When they got into the voting booth they voted for the less conservative George Bush. He got 14% in Iowa while finishing third. That made him some sort of contender for awhile. His best showing was in Utah in which he got 20%. He was not considered a nut by most conservatives back then. It is highly unlikely than Cain will do that well.

[JustRalph]

Slight correction, female WHACKO conservatives.

http://justjudyjudyjudy.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/sarah-palin-crazy.jpg

You betcha!

yep, catch her off guard, with a goofy look on her face and she is still hotter than anything on the Dem side..... and smarter too..... yep I said that.

you are such a dunce.

[Robert Goren]

yep, catch her off guard, with a goofy look on her face and she is still hotter than anything on the Dem side..... and smarter too..... yep I said that.

you are such a dunce.She is also hotter than anything on Rep side too. As for smarter, well, she making a lot of money off of Republicans going gaga over her. She does know take a sucker for all he is worth, I give her that. But I digress...

[fast4522]

yep, catch her off guard, with a goofy look on her face and she is still hotter than anything on the Dem side..... and smarter too..... yep I said that.

you are such a dunce.

Ralph,

You have to understand, thats the best that Hcrap can do! He is not a reputable lefty, but few are!

[hcap]

yep, catch her off guard, with a goofy look on her face and she is still hotter than anything on the Dem side..... and smarter too..... yep I said that.

you are such a dunce.Same pose she took when was questioned about the Bush Doctrine. I cam just visualize her response to ABC News' Charlie Gibson. Palin stared blankly for a few moments before mumbling "In what respect Charlie?"

[JustRalph]

Same pose she took when was questioned about the Bush Doctrine. I cam just visualize her response to ABC News' Charlie Gibson. Palin stared blankly for a few moments before mumbling "In what respect Charlie?"

we don't need to go down that road again. Krauthammer and many others addressed that issue when it happen. The fact that you are "windmilling" on and on about past issues proves your are running scared.

[hcap]

I was scared when she was on the rethug '08 ticket. A possible heartbeat away from demonstrating just how much of a dunce she could be. Now she is just comic relief.

[Robert Goren]

Same pose she took when was questioned about the Bush Doctrine. I cam just visualize her response to ABC News' Charlie Gibson. Palin stared blankly for a few moments before mumbling "In what respect Charlie?"It not fair to ask her about the Bush Doctrine. Bush himself would have a hard time answering questions about it.

[JustRalph]

Herman Cain cleans everybody's clock in first debate.

#4 trend on Twitter.

The libs are calling him an uncle tom and many many Repubs are calling for the debates and the primary season to be canceled and nominate him immediately
:lol:

[JustRalph]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20060284-503544.html

May 6, 2011 12:03 AM
Herman Cain makes splash at first 2012 GOP debate

[Tom]

So the dems are now racists? :D

This is a guy who could plow through the republican rfuse that is too stupid to go back home after 2008. This guy has the goods.

It will be hard to debate him - either side.

[Sugar Ron]

The only difference between him and the rest of the Republicans is the color of his skin. But he still will not go very far. He will get lots of noise from conservatives, but almost none of them will vote for him. He is the 2011-2012 verison of Alan Keyes. Every Republican loved him until they got into the voting booth.

LOL ... very true

NOBODY does hypocrisy better than cons...

[Robert Goren]

So the dems are now racists? :D

This is a guy who could plow through the republican rfuse that is too stupid to go back home after 2008. This guy has the goods.

It will be hard to debate him - either side.Lets see how many votes this guy gets when the republican primaries begin. I don't think he get very many. Until then he will be the conservative's internet darling.

[JustRalph]

http://hotair.com/archives/2011/05/06/luntz-focus-group-landslide-herman-cain-won-the-debate/

Luntz focus group landslide: Herman Cain won the debate

VXHX1AyHU4Q

[DJofSD]

He was on Kudlow's program on Friday.

[JustRalph]

http://www.hermancain.com/


Cain is officially announcing on Saturday............

http://www.hermancain.com/grfx/hermanLogo.gif

[DJofSD]

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[BlueShoe]

He is the 2011-2012 verison of Alan Keyes. Every Republican loved him until they got into the voting booth.
Really? I voted for Keyes in 2008. He was only on the ballot in three states, California being one of them. My state was going strongly for Obama anyway, so for the third time in my life voted 3rd party in a presidential election. Had serious issues with McCain and have loathed Obama since he became a senator. Thought that Mr. Keyes was the only true Constitutional Conservative on the ballot, and voted accordingly.

[GaryG]

I don't know too much about his background, but he sure has the right ideas. The left is wishin and hopin, this could not be happening....:faint: :faint:

[PaceAdvantage]

Just spent some time on his website and watching some of his videos. Haven't found anything I don't like yet.

[JustRalph]

EHomZF3JGBg

[PaceAdvantage]

He's got my interest. He's got the executive background, and he's saying all the right things so far...can't wait to hear more...

[Tom]

I would love to hear him debate the Great Loser.
This guy ain't no John McCan't.

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm sure if he starts to rise in popularity, the left will use that cancer scare as a club to beat Cain over the head with...like they did with John McCain's age and prior health scares...

But then again if they do that, we can all just call them racists and win that argument hands down... :lol:

[benzer]

I've heard him talk on the radio for the last couple of years. He fills in for some radio talkers when they are away.

Very impressive, knowledgeable, and a interesting person. His vision for the future of the USA under good leadership is straight forward as are his ideas.

As of now a longshot, but it is early and that could change quickly.

[NJ Stinks]

He's got my interest. He's got the executive background, and he's saying all the right things so far...can't wait to hear more...

From that clip, all I got was that he knows how to exploit the flag and say basically nothing.

Other than that, he's got my attention too. :sleeping:

[highnote]

I'm thinking about changing my signature to "Palin/Romney 2012". I may even put the bumper sticker on my car.

They're in a statistical tie as of today. Palin has been on the political stage for a few years now and seems to be getting the hang of it.

[newtothegame]

From that clip, all I got was that he knows how to exploit the flag and say basically nothing.

Other than that, he's got my attention too. :sleeping:
So he's alot like Obama EXCEPT this guy loves our flag???
Nice take NJ....course I wouldnt expect anything less from a lib! lol:lol:

[newtothegame]

Let the Cain attacks from the left begin....
So far we have NJ..."guy says nothing and exploits the flag"......
who's next??? lol

[DJofSD]

And who can be his partner on the ticket? He needs some one with experience in the executive branch. Some one with international political experience. A tough fighter. How about Conde Rice? (That ought to get the bricks flying.)

[Tom]

Rice would be a good choice.

[dartman51]

And who can be his partner on the ticket? He needs some one with experience in the executive branch. Some one with international political experience. A tough fighter. How about Conde Rice? (That ought to get the bricks flying.)

I'd vote for that ticket..........oh........wait....that won't work. I'm a Tea Party member. I must be a racist redneck.....how could I possibly vote for that ticket. :rolleyes:

[Tom]

I've heard him talk on the radio for the last couple of years. He fills in for some radio talkers when they are away.

Very impressive, knowledgeable, and a interesting person. His vision for the future of the USA under good leadership is straight forward as are his ideas.

As of now a longshot, but it is early and that could change quickly.

I have heard him interviewed a few times - always makes sense.
I have heard Obama many times, and he never made any sense.

[DJofSD]

I have heard him interviewed a few times - always makes sense.
I have heard Obama many times, and he never made any sense.
Dr. Jekyll meet Mr. Hyde.

[bigmack]

I'm tryin' to figure out what all the whiners were yappin' about when they thought people disliked BO for being Black. He ain't Black.

Now Herm, he Black. And he speaks his mind. He ain't goin' nowhere but he sure is well liked, has a beautiful family and makes BO look like an impostor.

I don't see anyone disliking Herm cause he's Black. 'Course, feel free to throw mud his way, hcap, mosty, NJ, sugar goof, spidermoon... Guess what your mud shows?

[DJofSD]

It shows the big

R

[NJ Stinks]

Let the Cain attacks from the left begin....
So far we have NJ..."guy says nothing and exploits the flag"......
who's next??? lol

Hey, it seemed like a slow day here in Off Topic so I thought I'd point out the obvious. :)

Cain and Rice. If they carry Alabama and/or South Carolina I won't feel so bad if the Dems are upset in 2012. :cool:

[benzer]

Hey, it seemed like a slow day here in Off Topic so I thought I'd point out the obvious. :)

Cain and Rice. If they carry Alabama and/or South Carolina I won't feel so bad if the Dems are upset in 2012. :cool:


Regardless of the Republican ticket. The Dems are on track to giving up the White House in 2012. It is time for real hope and change. Our country deserves and requires better leadership.

[JustRalph]

Regardless of the Republican ticket. The Dems are on track to giving up the White House in 2012. It is time for real hope and change. Our country deserves and requires better leadership.

from your keyboard to God's ears.

I am not confident at all. Those sucking at the Teat are growing larger every day. The plan is working, there are more and more people dependent on the Government than ever and they are not going to vote against their lifeline.

We reached a tipping point about 3 years back. It's going to take a huge mistake by the Dems to throw this guy out. Or a catastrophe of unseen proportions. A Political or National Security catastrophe is the only sure way of getting this guy out.

[benzer]

from your keyboard to God's ears.

I am not confident at all. Those sucking at the Teat are growing larger every day. The plan is working, there are more and more people dependent on the Government than ever and they are not going to vote against their lifeline.

We reached a tipping point about 3 years back. It's going to take a huge mistake by the Dems to throw this guy out. Or a catastrophe of unseen proportions. A Political or National Security catastrophe is the only sure way of getting this guy out.


I pray that there is still a lot of Americans that understand freedom as outlined in the constitution, written by men who understood the importance of God in our society still exist.

[PaceAdvantage]

From that clip, all I got was that he knows how to exploit the flag and say basically nothing.What nonsense. I think we all know the real reason you say such things... :bang:

[NJ Stinks]

What nonsense. I think we all know the real reason you say such things... :bang:

I give up what, PA. What is the real reason? :confused:

[bigmack]

I give up what, PA. What is the real reason? :confused:
So you want to play obtuse? It's clear what your motivation is and it speaks volumes about who you are as a person. :ThmbDown:

[mostpost]

I give up what, PA. What is the real reason? :confused:

Both PA and Bigmack like to post in vague generalities. Then when you guess, you are always wrong.

Herman Cain is a niche candidate. Of course he would be the candidate of the majority on this board. Of course he would be the candidate of the demographic that thinks whether you wear a lapel pin is an important test of competency.

Herman Cain was a successful businessman (so they say) and we all know how many successful businessmen have been great presidents. NONE. The traits that make a successful businessman are quite different from the traits that make a successful president.

The president of a business is required to make a profit. The President of the country is required to provide necessary services to the people of that country.The president of a business can implement his policies with little or no opposition. The President of the country must hear all viewpoints.

Herman Cain has the same narrow, inflexible world view that the majority on this board does. No wonder he is their candidate.

[DJofSD]

Hey, mosty, come out to San Diego some day. I'll be happy to show you a view of the world. We can go to Mack's backyard for starters.

[JustRalph]

The President of the country is required to provide necessary services to the people of that country.

This says volumes about you Mostie. The fact that you believe this claptrap is why you are who you are.............

[newtothegame]

Both PA and Bigmack like to post in vague generalities. Then when you guess, you are always wrong.

Herman Cain is a niche candidate. Of course he would be the candidate of the majority on this board. Of course he would be the candidate of the demographic that thinks whether you wear a lapel pin is an important test of competency.

Herman Cain was a successful businessman (so they say) and we all know how many successful businessmen have been great presidents. NONE. The traits that make a successful businessman are quite different from the traits that make a successful president.

The president of a business is required to make a profit. The President of the country is required to provide necessary services to the people of that country.The president of a business can implement his policies with little or no opposition. The President of the country must hear all viewpoints.

Herman Cain has the same narrow, inflexible world view that the majority on this board does. No wonder he is their candidate.

Wll gee...and here I thought all this time the left called us racist because we didnt like Obama.....Now that the left is saying we arent racist ( after all, we cant be racist if we support Cain), then where does that leave their argument??
And NOT one left member has said they like Cain.....Of course they havent said that they dont like.....(fill in the blank) based on his policies....
So the question still stands....who are the REAL RACIST here??
I'm looking towards the left for answers!!!

[Ocala Mike]

it speaks volumes about who you are as a person




?


Ocala Mike

[Ocala Mike]

This says volumes about you


Are you two guys joined at the tongue?


Ocala Mike

[mostpost]

This says volumes about you Mostie. The fact that you believe this claptrap is why you are who you are.............
When I say provide necessary services, you think of welfare and such. Not what I am referring to. Schools, roads, infrastructure is a part of it. Security, both police and armed forces is important. Most important of all is a level playing field. Money can not be a determining factor. Justice must be. The president as leader of the government must insure that labor has the same rights as ownership. This will not happen under Herman Cain. His governing philosophy will be to maximize profits for his business friends.

A President must consider the good of all sectors of society.

[mostpost]

Are you two guys joined at the tongue?


Ocala Mike
PA, big, just, newt all interchangeable.

[JustRalph]

When I say provide necessary services, you think of welfare and such. Not what I am referring to. Schools, roads, infrastructure is a part of it. Security, both police and armed forces is important. Most important of all is a level playing field. Money can not be a determining factor. Justice must be. The president as leader of the government must insure that labor has the same rights as ownership. This will not happen under Herman Cain. His governing philosophy will be to maximize profits for his business friends.

A President must consider the good of all sectors of society.

I quoted the previous post on purpose.....

Police, Schools,Roads, infrastructure are state issues. Or local governments. The President has nothing to do with those things. Constitutionally speaking. The fact that the Federal Government sticks its nose in these issues is the problem. You think the Prez should be involved in these things, that vindicates my previous statement.

[bigmack]

?
Don't you get it? It's as clear as the 'postage due' stamp on mosty's forehead.

Herman is Black. They don't like him. Get it?

[mostpost]

And NOT one left member has said they like Cain.....Of course they havent said that they dont like.....(Cain) based on his policies....

They actually have not said they didn't like Cain. The posts from the left have been all about whether he would be a viable candidate for the Republicans or whether the Republicans would even vote for him when push came to shove.

With one exception, I could not find a mention of Cain and his qualifications to be President.

I alone among the intelligent and charming left community on this board expressed reservation about Cain, although I do not deny many of my colleagues have them. My reservations are firmly rooted in policy not racism.

Cain wants to repeal Obama's Healthcare legislation. I think that legislation should be only a first step.
Cain wants to eliminate government regulation of businesses. I know that those regulations are a necessary part of keeping workers and consumers safe.
Cain wants to institute a "Fair Tax." I know that a Fair Tax is the most unfair of taxes and is designed solely to reduce taxes on the wealthy.

Cain thinks the country is being ruined by the stupid. I agree with him, but just wonder why he was making a speech to them. :eek: :eek:

[NJ Stinks]

Herman is Black. They don't like him. Get it?

When I posted earlier, I didn't know anything about Cain except for the clip.

Now Mostpost just enlightened me. I don't like what Cain stands for.

And DJ. What is that garbage about Mack's backyard? You want everybody to agree with you? Try another website.

[DJofSD]

Hey, stinky. I don't care who agrees with me. Mack's backyard was a reference to the Navy Seals.

Try another web site? Why? To help you feel better? Naw, it ain't gonna happen -- me leaving and you feeling better.

[bigmack]

When I posted earlier, I didn't know anything about Cain except for the clip.

Now Mostpost just enlightened me. I don't like what Cain stands for.
Clearly code words from both you & mosty. We all know why you don't like Cain and it's outrageous.

[newtothegame]

Clearly code words from both you & mosty. We all know why you don't like Cain and it's outrageous.

I agree Mack...the 'closet" led hatred for this man who has the best interest of the U.S is astounding.
NJ admits he knew "nothing", yet he felt he had to comment.
Mosty, now tries to talk about what he stands for....lol. Well I say either you stand for something or you will fall for anything...(as in hope and change). :lol:
But its ok to those of you on the left...we can now all see who harbors those ill feelings because of who Cain is!

[NJ Stinks]

Hey, stinky. I don't care who agrees with me. Mack's backyard was a reference to the Navy Seals.

Try another web site? Why? To help you feel better? Naw, it ain't gonna happen -- me leaving and you feeling better.

I had a sinking feeling that I was reading your post wrong. Sorry, DJ.

[benzer]

They actually have not said they didn't like Cain. The posts from the left have been all about whether he would be a viable candidate for the Republicans or whether the Republicans would even vote for him when push came to shove.

With one exception, I could not find a mention of Cain and his qualifications to be President.

I alone among the intelligent and charming left community on this board expressed reservation about Cain, although I do not deny many of my colleagues have them. My reservations are firmly rooted in policy not racism.

Cain wants to repeal Obama's Healthcare legislation. I think that legislation should be only a first step.
Cain wants to eliminate government regulation of businesses. I know that those regulations are a necessary part of keeping workers and consumers safe.
Cain wants to institute a "Fair Tax." I know that a Fair Tax is the most unfair of taxes and is designed solely to reduce taxes on the wealthy.

Cain thinks the country is being ruined by the stupid. I agree with him, but just wonder why he was making a speech to them. :eek: :eek:


Tell us about Obama's qualifications to be president before you elected him.

You mention the Fair Tax and it is obvious you have no clue to what it is about. You have not read it, it is not about the wealthy, it is just as the name implies a Fair Tax.

The Fair Tax has the potential to bring our economy the boost it needs and could help American businesses compete worldwide and bring businesses back to our country. That equals employment for more people = greater prosperity for all of this nations citizens.

But you already know that.

[JustRalph]

Cain wants to institute a "Fair Tax." I know that a Fair Tax is the most unfair of taxes and is designed solely to reduce taxes on the wealthy.


only you would find a "fair tax" that is based on a equal percentage of income being paid by every person in the country to be "Unfair"

Every person would be paying the exact same percentage of income. And somehow it's unfair ?

I forget sometimes that you think that the 51% of people who don't pay taxes in this country are entitled to a break because they are liberals.

The founding fathers would personally choke you and stomp you into a grease spot on the pavement if they were here.

Luckily for you time travel is not an option for the founders

[NJ Stinks]

only you would find a "fair tax" that is based on a equal percentage of income being paid by every person in the country to be "Unfair"

Every person would be paying the exact same percentage of income. And somehow it's unfair ?

I'm sure you can look this stuff up as easily as me, Ralph. Here's a few Fair Tax lowlights rearranged and numbered by me for easy reading:
_______________________________

1. The biggest winners ....would be most savers and investors. A consumption tax gives savers something like an unlimited-deductible individual retirement account. There would be no tax hit until the dollars were actually spent. While the money was saved or invested, it would grow fully tax-free.

2. And the wealthy, who now pay 35% on their marginal income, would rejoice at a big tax break down to 30% of their consumption expenditures. In other words, a round of golf at Pebble Beach would cost them, but merely collecting dividends would not.

3. How much must pretax prices go down before you're comfortable paying an additional 30% on your home purchase, kid's tuition and doctor appointments? Increasing the cost of buying a home by 30% would not stimulate the housing market. On a house currently selling for $200,000, a 30% tax means you have to borrow $60,000 more just to get in the door. That doesn't make a lot of sense.

4. The idea that the Fair Tax would eliminate complexity in the tax code also fails to recognize reality. Special interests would almost certainly hire lobbyists to propose exemptions for such things as home purchases, medical services and education. I spent some time in Washington, D.C., and I never met a lawmaker who wanted to run for re-election on the platform of hitting housing, medical services and education with a 30% tax.
____________________________

The link to the uncut version:

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/Advice/IsHuckabeesFairTaxReallyFair.aspx?page=1

[NJ Stinks]

Here's another link that lists the pros and cons more precisely.

http://www.balancedpolitics.org/national_sales_tax.htm

[benzer]

Here is another link to reality:

http://www.fairtax.org

[mostpost]

I'm sure you can look this stuff up as easily as me, Ralph. Here's a few Fair Tax lowlights rearranged and numbered by me for easy reading:
_______________________________

1. The biggest winners ....would be most savers and investors. A consumption tax gives savers something like an unlimited-deductible individual retirement account. There would be no tax hit until the dollars were actually spent. While the money was saved or invested, it would grow fully tax-free.

2. And the wealthy, who now pay 35% on their marginal income, would rejoice at a big tax break down to 30% of their consumption expenditures. In other words, a round of golf at Pebble Beach would cost them, but merely collecting dividends would not.

3. How much must pretax prices go down before you're comfortable paying an additional 30% on your home purchase, kid's tuition and doctor appointments? Increasing the cost of buying a home by 30% would not stimulate the housing market. On a house currently selling for $200,000, a 30% tax means you have to borrow $60,000 more just to get in the door. That doesn't make a lot of sense.

4. The idea that the Fair Tax would eliminate complexity in the tax code also fails to recognize reality. Special interests would almost certainly hire lobbyists to propose exemptions for such things as home purchases, medical services and education. I spent some time in Washington, D.C., and I never met a lawmaker who wanted to run for re-election on the platform of hitting housing, medical services and education with a 30% tax.
____________________________

The link to the uncut version:

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/Advice/IsHuckabeesFairTaxReallyFair.aspx?page=1

NJ, thanks for the informative article on the Fair Tax. Benzer was correct when he said I did not understand it. I was confusing it with the flat tax. Apparently Just Ralph was also confused as he spoke about an equal percentage of income being paid by every person

Now that I understand what the Fair Tax really is I have a completely the same opinion of its fairness. If you add thirty percent to the cost of every item, that is going to impact a person of modest means much more than it will effect a person of substantial means.

You want to buy a gallon of milk? Today it costs $3.50. With the Fair tax it's $4.55. It costs me $49.50 on average to fill up my tank. Make that $64.35 with the fair tax. I know that the more affluent would pay the same increase, but that increase would not impact them in the same way, because they have a much larger safety net.

Flat tax, fair tax. The situation is the same. The less money you earn, the less you have left after paying the tax. For the bottom earners this means having little or nothing. For the top earners it means the inconvenience of having to buy the new BMW every three years instead of every two years. Poor babies.

There is another factor here. With the progressive income tax you do have to pay. If you earn money it will be taxed. With this Fair Tax you do not have to pay unless you purchase something. There are many things which people need to purchase, but there are many things which they do not need. Is it really smart to think that increasing the price of every item by 30% is going to stimulate the economy? Is it smart to think that a company that needs three forklifts is going to purchase them when the price has increased by 30%. Especially when it is uncertain that it will need those forklifts to move product from the warehouse to the shipping dock.

People will cut back on purchasing luxury items and even on items that are slightly frivolous.

The Fair Tax is equally unfair as the flat tax and it is an even worse idea as a revenue producer.

[benzer]

NJ, thanks for the informative article on the Fair Tax. Benzer was correct when he said I did not understand it. I was confusing it with the flat tax. Apparently Just Ralph was also confused as he spoke about an equal percentage of income being paid by every person

Now that I understand what the Fair Tax really is I have a completely the same opinion of its fairness. If you add thirty percent to the cost of every item, that is going to impact a person of modest means much more than it will effect a person of substantial means.

You want to buy a gallon of milk? Today it costs $3.50. With the Fair tax it's $4.55. It costs me $49.50 on average to fill up my tank. Make that $64.35 with the fair tax. I know that the more affluent would pay the same increase, but that increase would not impact them in the same way, because they have a much larger safety net.

Flat tax, fair tax. The situation is the same. The less money you earn, the less you have left after paying the tax. For the bottom earners this means having little or nothing. For the top earners it means the inconvenience of having to buy the new BMW every three years instead of every two years. Poor babies.

There is another factor here. With the progressive income tax you do have to pay. If you earn money it will be taxed. With this Fair Tax you do not have to pay unless you purchase something. There are many things which people need to purchase, but there are many things which they do not need. Is it really smart to think that increasing the price of every item by 30% is going to stimulate the economy? Is it smart to think that a company that needs three forklifts is going to purchase them when the price has increased by 30%. Especially when it is uncertain that it will need those forklifts to move product from the warehouse to the shipping dock.

People will cut back on purchasing luxury items and even on items that are slightly frivolous.

The Fair Tax is equally unfair as the flat tax and it is an even worse idea as a revenue producer.


I hope the best for you, but you just don't get it. You are a smart person, read the bill and then comment if you can from a non-liberal point of view.

[bigmack]

I hope the best for you, but you just don't get it. You are a smart person, read the bill and then comment if you can from a non-liberal point of view.
Trust me, he ain't that smart. "Fair" is not a word he warmly embraces.

He doesn't do his homework thoroughly and makes a boat load of kittywampus assumptions.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/AmericansForFairTaxation.png

[mostpost]

Here's another link that lists the pros and cons more precisely.

http://www.balancedpolitics.org/national_sales_tax.htm
Brief comments on the yes side

A national sales tax discourages consumption, leading to a conservation of resources.
We're discouraging consumption, but we're instituting a tax that requires consumption to work? :confused:
The removal of an income tax encourages saving and investing, which is the key to job growth.

Individuals would have an extra incentive to work hard and earn income, leading to a far more productive nation.
Those are the same thing and I have the same objection. The money you save on the income tax, you have to spend on the items you purchase. It's a zero sum game

A sales tax would be a much simpler system, eliminating the need for individuals to comply with complex tax reporting requirements and freeing up all the money & time lost on the income tax process.
This may be true. One point for you guys maybe.
Tax rates can be targeted to encourage or discourage the consumption of certain items.
But then it wouldn't be a fair tax with equal rates.
The cost of certain items would fall since labor and tax compliance costs would be cheaper to businesses.
But they would go up because you are now paying a 30% sales tax.
It would allow a greater collection of tax money from those carrying out illegal transactions, since their income is hid from the income tax system but will be taxed when they spend it in a sales tax.
It would spawn a black market where no tax would be collected. And the criminals would no longer have to launder sufficient money to pay enough tax to keep the government from getting suspicious.
It's a tax system consistent with a free society; i.e. Americans have a choice regarding their taxes, unlike our current confiscation system.
This is just stupid on its face. There is something that government spends money on that someone doesn't like. This is not a cafeteria. We don't get to pick and choose.
Social Security, Medicare, Obamacare, and other government spending has put the federal budget on an unsustainable path, so we have to try something new before America is totally bankrupt. If the U.S. can't pay its bills, the rest of the world will also be thrown into chaos.

There is no evidence that this will work

[mostpost]

I hope the best for you, but you just don't get it. You are a smart person, read the bill and then comment if you can from a non-liberal point of view.

Sorry, I can't comment from a non-liberal point of view, because I am not a non-liberal. I need to comment from a smart person point of view.

[mostpost]

Trust me, he ain't that smart. "Fair" is not a word he warmly embraces.

He doesn't do his homework thoroughly and makes a boat load of kittywampus assumptions.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/AmericansForFairTaxation.png
Thank you for copying and pasting propaganda from Fairtax.org

[mostpost]

The founding fathers would personally choke you and stomp you into a grease spot on the pavement if they were here.

You might be surprised at what the founding fathers would do. I think they would be intelligent enough to recognize that we are no longer living in the eighteenth century. A fact which you seem to fail to recognize. These men were radicals. They revolted against a lawful government. They fought a king they had sworn allegiance to. Had they failed they would have been hung. Only because they succeeded are they now called patriots.

[benzer]

Sorry, I can't comment from a non-liberal point of view, because I am not a non-liberal. I need to comment from a smart person point of view.

I know, you are who you are. We will most likely disagree on many things.

[bigmack]

Sorry, I can't comment from a non-liberal point of view, because I am not a non-liberal. I need to comment from a smart person point of view.
I'm always perplexed by your kind that never figured out how to have depth to your views. Most of us started out Dems/Libs and grew out of it.

Your inability to think outside your world is much of your problem, and I say that seriously. What a boreAss you've become with your continually hyper-partisan speak. Like this joint needed another hcap.

Have honesty with your debate or color yourself a complete joke.

[benzer]

You might be surprised at what the founding fathers would do. I think they would be intelligent enough to recognize that we are no longer living in the eighteenth century. A fact which you seem to fail to recognize. These men were radicals. They revolted against a lawful government. They fought a king they had sworn allegiance to. Had they failed they would have been hung. Only because they succeeded are they now called patriots.

What does that info have to do with anything in this thread? What books do you read? In the beginning people came to this country to escape the tyranny of the king of England and to have freedom. The founding fathers were not radicals ( except in the eyes of the king of England )

We don't follow a king, we elect our leaders, by the people and for the people.

[newtothegame]

FairTax Facts

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119863013677849835.html

I hope PA will allow me a little lee way here but I will try to post a few snippets from the story above. Feel free to read the story yourself at the link above...

1. "it eliminates income taxes and payroll taxes (for Social Security and Medicare), which are costly to collect and end up as "embedded" in the price of everything we buy"

2."Research on the price of consumer goods reveals that up to 20% of all prices today represent hidden income taxes and payroll taxes. Once these taxes are repealed and replaced with the FairTax, it is likely that market pressure would force retail prices to fall."

3."Eliminating embedded taxes will also do something else -- it will remove significant price disadvantages suffered by American producers competing with tax-free imports."

4." Eliminating corporate income taxes and capital gains taxes, which the FairTax would do, would likely make the American economy the most desirable place in the world to do business"

5."Another benefit of the FairTax is that, unlike other sales taxes, it would not hit the poorest Americans the hardest. The FairTax proposal calls for sending every American a "prebate" check to offset the cost of the national sales taxes paid by those living in poverty. This feature would effectively exempt those living below the poverty line from paying taxes to the federal government, and provide all taxpayers with a reimbursement of a portion of taxes paid."

6."The FairTax rate is 23% on retail sales when calculated "inclusively," as are income tax rates. It will, in a fairer, more transparent and less-expensive way, raise the same amount of money the federal government now collects through the income and payroll taxes."

7." Under the FairTax, Congress would no longer be able to reward friends, punish enemies or manipulate behavior through the tax code."

8."The FairTax would also eliminate the lucrative tax lobbying practices that represent more than 50% of all lobby dollars spent annually in Washington."

There is alot more to the story...and the above quotes are from the story....
Feel free to go read it.

[newtothegame]

Sorry mosty....I don't see alot wrong with the above proposals.....
You talk about paying 30% this and that....
Here's a clue...YOU ALREADY pay that and then some.

[benzer]

Sorry, I can't comment from a non-liberal point of view, because I am not a non-liberal. I need to comment from a smart person point of view.

And that comment could only come from a jack***

[PaceAdvantage]

These men were radicals. They revolted against a lawful government. They fought a king they had sworn allegiance to. Had they failed they would have been hung. Only because they succeeded are they now called patriots.That's it. Time to take down the sign and close up shop. mostpost will never be able to top something like this. May you be beaten with your own stick for the rest of your days here...

[Tom]

This tops the Rapture!:eek:

[NJ Stinks]

I'm always perplexed by your kind that never figured out how to have depth to your views. Most of us started out Dems/Libs and grew out of it.

Your inability to think outside your world is much of your problem, and I say that seriously. What a boreAss you've become with your continually hyper-partisan speak. Like this joint needed another hcap.

Have honesty with your debate or color yourself a complete joke.

You know what. If I didn't know any better and read the comments posted above by the right, I'd be wondering why the hell we don't have a Fair Tax or a Flat Tax. But then I remember that the majority in this country reject the idea of the Fair and/or Flat Tax and prefer the progressive tax system we have had in place for almost 100 years.

Simply put, "Your inability to think outside your world is much of your problem, and I say that seriously. What a boreAss you've become with your continually hyper-partisan speak. Like this joint needed another...."

Look in the mirror once in a while before you start throwing stones. :rolleyes:

[DJofSD]

100 years? On the face of it, it must be time for a change.

[NJ Stinks]

100 years? On the face of it, it must be time for a change.

Are you talking about the Second Amendment by any chance? That one's been around almost 220 years.

[Ocala Mike]

newtothegame, the "story" you linked to is opinion, not news, and it's not even current. It's a 12/07 WSJ op-ed piece written by some Texas construction mogul who has a dog in the fight.

Anyway, I came up with the not so startling revelation that one's position for or against Obama or Cain has no bearing on whether one is a racist or not.

You can be AGAINST Obama and FOR Cain and still be a racist. Likewise, you can be FOR Obama and AGAINST Cain and still be a racist.

Starting to sound like a Jeff Foxworthy bit, no?


Ocala Mike

[DJofSD]

Are you talking about the Second Amendment by any chance? That one's been around almost 220 years.
No. Your asserted the income tax had been around for about 100 years.

Quite a bit has changed in that period. A tax system based upon the way things were 100 years is way out of date.

[JustRalph]

You might be surprised at what the founding fathers would do. I think they would be intelligent enough to recognize that we are no longer living in the eighteenth century. A fact which you seem to fail to recognize. These men were radicals. They revolted against a lawful government. They fought a king they had sworn allegiance to. Had they failed they would have been hung. Only because they succeeded are they now called patriots.


Stunning lack of reasoning and an incredible leap of rationalization in an attempt to undermine the historical significance of some of the most important men to ever walk the planet.

I have said it before, You are way too far gone..........

[mostpost]

What does that info have to do with anything in this thread? What books do you read? In the beginning people came to this country to escape the tyranny of the king of England and to have freedom. The founding fathers were not radicals ( except in the eyes of the king of England )

We don't follow a king, we elect our leaders, by the people and for the people.
You need to learn the difference between then and now. In 1776 we followed a king. We were a part of England. I'm not saying the American Revolution was not justified. It was. But it was a revolution and revolutions are the acts of radical men.

[mostpost]

That's it. Time to take down the sign and close up shop. mostpost will never be able to top something like this. May you be beaten with your own stick for the rest of your days here...
Try presenting an argument against my statements instead of making stupid comments about sticks.

[mostpost]

I'm always perplexed by your kind that never figured out how to have depth to your views. Most of us started out Dems/Libs and grew out of it.

Your inability to think outside your world is much of your problem, and I say that seriously. What a boreAss you've become with your continually hyper-partisan speak. Like this joint needed another hcap.

Have honesty with your debate or color yourself a complete joke.

This from a guy whose main contribution is I hate liberals.

This from a guy who unquestioningly parrots every right wing talking point.

This from a guy who blindly accepts every falsehood uttered by beck or limbaugh or printed by breitbart or malkin.

I think outside my world, but I reject any thoughts that I can prove wrong. And I can prove most of them wrong when they come from the above sources.

[newtothegame]

newtothegame, the "story" you linked to is opinion, not news, and it's not even current. It's a 12/07 WSJ op-ed piece written by some Texas construction mogul who has a dog in the fight.

Anyway, I came up with the not so startling revelation that one's position for or against Obama or Cain has no bearing on whether one is a racist or not.

You can be AGAINST Obama and FOR Cain and still be a racist. Likewise, you can be FOR Obama and AGAINST Cain and still be a racist.

Starting to sound like a Jeff Foxworthy bit, no?


Ocala Mike

Did i say anywhere that it wasnt opinion???
As for its age....there isnt alot of information regarding the fair tax.....but feel free to post some "news" if you like.
As to the comments regarding racist in your post....gee duh...now theres a revelation. Of coure you can be racist given either of the two hypotheticals.
In case you missed it, let me try and help ya...THIS IS EXACTLY THE POINT WE WERE TRYING TO TELL THE LIBS.
Those of us on the right were called racist for not liking Obama.....(nevermind we backed our positions against his policies)....
So now the left gets their OWN medicine...they dont like Cain, so therefore it must be because they are racist!

[benzer]

You need to learn the difference between then and now. In 1776 we followed a king. We were a part of England. I'm not saying the American Revolution was not justified. It was. But it was a revolution and revolutions are the acts of radical men.

You need to learn the difference. In 1776 only the tories in the country followed the king, the rest of the people did not.

[benzer]

To expand on a previous comment.

The tories of yesterday are still here today.

The difference today is we can win this one in the voting booth.

No gun battle needed - just come out and vote!

[NJ Stinks]

No gun battle needed - just come out and vote!

Don't worry, Benzer, we will.

[benzer]

Don't worry, Benzer, we will.

Good, too bad you will vote for the BO side.

There is a reason for the cuckoo's nest after all.

[NJ Stinks]

Good, too bad you will vote for the BO side.

True.

But as you said, at least we both agree on making sure we vote. :ThmbUp:

[benzer]

True.

But as you said, at least we both agree on making sure we vote. :ThmbUp:

This we can both agree on :)

[hcap]

Mr benzer.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a6/Bender_Rodriguez.png/180px-Bender_Rodriguez.png

Don't expect liberals here to go quietly.

[benzer]

Mr benzer.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a6/Bender_Rodriguez.png/180px-Bender_Rodriguez.png

Don't expect liberals here to go quietly.

Why would I?

I expect some of you will require a return to old school methods.

[hcap]

OK teach.

[benzer]

OK teach.

1st: I'm not a teacher

2nd: Your thirst for knowledge is a good sign.

3rd: You probably have more potential in your toes than your mind has even imagined.

4th: If you really want to do this, start a thread about it, I will participate as I'm sure others will also.

Let me Know what you decide.

Old School 101 University

[hcap]

Your "old school" dogma is nothing new here 18th century thinking is about what I would expect.

[benzer]

Your "old school" dogma is nothing new here 18th century thinking is about what I would expect.

18th century thinking might be all that you can absorb, but hey I live here in this century and my thinking goes way past your nonsense.

[JustRalph]

oZ0M_rEcHls

[DJofSD]

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: Way up!

[Tom]

Oscar! Oscar!

Bravo!

:jump:

[PaceAdvantage]

I love Hermy's rhetoric...

I find it very interesting that for a relative nobody, he has consistently been polling 2nd or 3rd among the top Republican candidates.

I also find it interesting that the media basically IGNORES this guy, despite his relatively high polling numbers.

Why do they ignore him? Because they have no idea what to do with him. And he really puts a huge dent in that tried and true "well, the Republicans/Tea Partiers are nothing but racists" argument.

I like him. I hope he does very well and sticks around the scene for a while.

[Robert Goren]

Even Fox pretty much ignores this guy.

[JustRalph]

Even Fox pretty much ignores this guy.

he is a radio competitor to them in many locations

[DJofSD]

he is a radio competitor to them in many locations
Which brings up a point that bothers the hell out of me.

While Fox and the MSM are using the public airwaves, and, supposidly providing a public service, they get away with murder when it comes to serving the public good. You never get a complete picture. They pick and choose. And salt to the wound is CPB and the PBS stations.

As far as I am concerned, there should be the same amount of air time used to cover every declared candidate. This excuse of this or that person doesn't stand a chance or has too small numbers in the polls is just BS. It is a way to introduce a bias into the coverage.

[JustRalph]

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2011/07/03/cain-a-welcome-guest-for-tea-party.html?sid=101

[DJofSD]

LAT 07July2011 (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-herman-cain-20110708,0,6396167.story)

[Rookies]

" Herman Cain is the name and I serve on the Tea Party train, 'Til people actually asked me stuff and tore down my platform again... " ;)

As opposed to the perennial losers ( Sorry Eye of Newt, SarahPalinTM :lol: , Michelle BT waaaaaay Overdrive, Ron, with his many bizarre tales, Paul, the sad blanched guy from Minny, etc. ), I kinda like Hermy.

Straight talking, but Herm, time to define your answers. http://inthearena.blogs.cnn.com/2011/06/28/cain-pushes-back-when-asked-specifics/?iref=allsearch Those generic platitudes aren't going to cut it!

* Exactly, WHICH Regulations are the bad ones ? Ya know, the hoary crock and bull impediments to capitalism horror story ?
* And EXACTLY what needs to be cut and what should be cut on the social policy side, particularly Medicare and Social Security?

Get that plain talk going and take a stand Herm. The people are waiting.

And as an aside, let's see that Tea Party racist charge eliminated forever by them nominating you Herm.

[bigmack]

And as an aside, let's see that Tea Party racist charge eliminated forever by them nominating you Herm.
That 'Tea Party is racist' thing was concocted by morons and bought by morons. You're not a moron are you?

[Tom]

Do you ask the same question of the libs who talk in riddles all the time?

[Sugar Ron]

Why are you guys wasting time talking about these soon-to-be also-rans like Cain and Bachmann???

The con establishment will prevail (as usual) and another empty suit (from Mass this time) will get the nomination.

The rest are simply auditioning for that VP slot.

The only worthwhile discussions now are if Mittsy, with all his baggage, can muster enough support from 'bagger types and independents to take down BO next year...

[DJofSD]

For the same reason you add comments to threads like these: b/c we can.

[bigmack]

The only worthwhile discussions now are if Mittsy, with all his baggage, can muster enough support from 'bagger types and independents to take down BO next year...
Hell, a Momo like you could take down BO at this point. What do you think the chances are Romney can?

[Sugar Ron]

A putz like you, Big Mac, would have a better shot at taking down BO than a stiff like Romney.

[bigmack]

A putz like you, Big Mac, would have a better shot at taking down BO than a stiff like Romney.
You're the dope yappin' about the "BO Machine." He's a rather dark horse at this point, no? "The Machine" is sputtering at best.

Looks more & more like three branches going R in '12. :lol:

[DJofSD]

Where are all of those shovel ready jobs, hmmmm?

Me thinks the shovels will be out, alright, but they'll be used for a different job.

[Sugar Ron]

You're the dope yappin' about the "BO Machine." He's a rather dark horse at this point, no? "The Machine" is sputtering at best.

Looks more & more like three branches going R in '12. :lol:

OMG


Will these (incompetent) Rs finish Bush-Cheney's 'work' and lead the economy into a full-fledged Great Depression II instead of just another Great Recession?

[DJofSD]

Nice endorsement for Cain just now from the most powerful man in the media.

[riskman]

Rupert Murdoch endorsed Cain ?

[Rookies]

Rupert Murdoch endorsed Cain ?

He'll have LOTS of time on his hands in the near future...:lol:

[DJofSD]

Rupert Murdoch endorsed Cain ?
Nope. Guess again.

[JustRalph]

Stern?

[DJofSD]

Buzz. Wrong.

Care to try again?

[Rookies]

This Con man:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Breitbart

[DJofSD]

No.

It was Michael Savage.

[boxcar]

When I say provide necessary services, you think of welfare and such. Not what I am referring to. Schools, roads, infrastructure is a part of it. Security, both police and armed forces is important. Most important of all is a level playing field. Money can not be a determining factor. Justice must be. The president as leader of the government must insure that labor has the same rights as ownership. This will not happen under Herman Cain. His governing philosophy will be to maximize profits for his business friends.

A President must consider the good of all sectors of society.(emphasis mine)

And money was not a huge determining factor by the dem(on)s when they shoved ObamaCare down our throats? Are you for real? Further, money must always be factored in, lest the money-hungry Feds leave the workers in this country with 10% of their earnings for spending money, and then boast afterward how generous they were to leave them that much.

And why should local police forces come under the perusal of the Feds? States, counties and municipalities can't manage their own security?

Boxcar

[Tom]

His governing philosophy will be to maximize profits for his business friends.

Dude, that is what AMERICA is all about! Those "business"friends are us. The people who own the stocks and bonds, who get our retirement funds from our investments in them. No country ever got to be great without having it done by the private sector. Not one. Ever.