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View Full Version : Repole says no mo disclosure


toussaud
04-27-2011, 08:53 AM
http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/repole-on-disclosure-no/

I don't really have a dog in this fight, but, I just find it funny how they have no problem with not being honest and forthright with the wagering public, yet, want you to wager all your money on these horses. Basically they want you to guess and pray.

I don't think you can have it both ways. I could care less about the derby trail, i'm talking about the wagering public. You trot a 1/9 shot out there and he runs up the track, and you have pletcher coming out all week saying he's back to his normal self, implying that he knew he wasn't right in the first place. That peeves me off.

Idrivetrotters
04-27-2011, 09:15 AM
I have a big problem with Repole's comments, basically he is saying that the betting public has no business knowing what's going on in the barn, we just have to "trust" that they will run a horse right.

Well, Pletcher has a long history of running horses short, not right, and do NOT get me started on Life At Ten!

Other countries have full disclosure on everything with the horse and race on zero race day medication and owner's and trainer's are still making a living racing horses, so why can't that happen here? What are they hiding? What HAS been hidden in the past (LAT?)

I've always thought this guy was not good for racing, and now, each time he opens his mouth, I know it.

onefast99
04-27-2011, 09:35 AM
The funny part is that people actually think Repole is telling Pletcher what to say!

Tom
04-27-2011, 10:05 AM
Pletcher....where have I heard that name before?

Oh, yeah, Life at Ten.....another screwing of the betting public.
This jerk has zero credibility with me.

eastie
04-27-2011, 10:15 AM
http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/repole-on-disclosure-no/

I don't really have a dog in this fight, but, I just find it funny how they have no problem with not being honest and forthright with the wagering public, yet, want you to wager all your money on these horses. Basically they want you to guess and pray.

I don't think you can have it both ways. I could care less about the derby trail, i'm talking about the wagering public. You trot a 1/9 shot out there and he runs up the track, and you have pletcher coming out all week saying he's back to his normal self, implying that he knew he wasn't right in the first place. That peeves me off.

I thought Uncle Mo was a game third....up the track ? Big Brown was "up the track" in the Belmont. Poor choice of words. And by the way, the Wood was a fluke, like Secretariat losing in the Wood. Uncle Mo wins the triple crown

toussaud
04-27-2011, 10:18 AM
I thought Uncle Mo was a game third....up the track ? Big Brown was "up the track" in the Belmont. Poor choice of words. And by the way, the Wood was a fluke, like Secretariat losing in the Wood. Uncle Mo wins the triple crown
Would you like to buy some worldcom stock?

Stillriledup
04-27-2011, 10:22 AM
I thought Uncle Mo was a game third....up the track ? Big Brown was "up the track" in the Belmont. Poor choice of words. And by the way, the Wood was a fluke, like Secretariat losing in the Wood. Uncle Mo wins the triple crown

When you are 1-5 and you're beaten easily while not being competitive, you were essentially 'up the track'.

if Mo was 50-1, he would have been a 'game 3rd'

Stillriledup
04-27-2011, 10:23 AM
Pletcher....where have I heard that name before?

Oh, yeah, Life at Ten.....another screwing of the betting public.
This jerk has zero credibility with me.

You heard it when he drugged his horse Wait A While in the Breeders Cup a "while" back. I think the horse was DQd from purse money and Pletcher got a hefty fine.

You also heard it when Left Bank died mysteriously after running really really fast.....faster than most horses have ever run in the history of this great sport.

toussaud
04-27-2011, 10:45 AM
or how rags to riches was doing "great" despite the turlesque morning workouts, only to come back and lose against horses she would have clobbered 3 months earlier and be retired.

Linny
04-27-2011, 12:09 PM
They all lie like dogs. Remember how Empire Maker was coming up the Derby "better than any horse" Frankel had ever seen but as soon as he lost it was "he was nursing a foot issue all week."

Todd is the master at not saying anything. He's like the Wizard of Oz telling us to pay no attention to that vet truck behind the curtain. Funny how there was no indication before the Wood that Mo wasn't anything but 100%.

Dahoss9698
04-27-2011, 01:36 PM
By no means am I trying to defend Pletcher, but some of you guys are acting like he's the only one doing this stuff. Like he's the only one that has had horses get sick or perform well under expectations, only to find out later on that something might have been amiss.

As Linny said, they all do it. And I don't think many of us would bet if we really knew what was going on behind the scenes in some barns.

We can't have it both ways. If trainers are honest and say a horse isn't doing great and they run poorly, people will call for their heads for running a horse not doing well. If they say they are doing well and run poorly, we're mad also. I think as bettors it's up to us to decide who and what we listen to, if anything at all.

toussaud
04-27-2011, 01:55 PM
By no means am I trying to defend Pletcher, but some of you guys are acting like he's the only one doing this stuff. Like he's the only one that has had horses get sick or perform well under expectations, only to find out later on that something might have been amiss.

As Linny said, they all do it. And I don't think many of us would bet if we really knew what was going on behind the scenes in some barns.

We can't have it both ways. If trainers are honest and say a horse isn't doing great and they run poorly, people will call for their heads for running a horse not doing well. If they say they are doing well and run poorly, we're mad also. I think as bettors it's up to us to decide who and what we listen to, if anything at all.
while i see your point, there is a difference between running poorly and the horse having issues.

The big guerrilla in the room here is do we actually believe mo had "issues" anyway. IN that way I see your point. What if he came out and vetted fine and had no major issues and ran up the track.

But the greater good here has to be the integrity of the wager. That has to be at the end of the day, more important than if we think a trainer can train or not.

sonnyp
04-27-2011, 02:05 PM
i hate to break this news, but the vast,vast majority of trainers and owners feel as though they owe bettors.....gamblers, zero....nothing.

by far the attitude is that the owners put up the money, take the risk and the trainers do the work,at the barn 5:00 am day in day out. they will and do what they feel is in their best interest and that of their horse.

mullin expressed his contempt for bettors. that was no accident, he was being honest and that comment reflects the way most of them feel.

Dahoss9698
04-27-2011, 02:15 PM
while i see your point, there is a difference between running poorly and the horse having issues.

The big guerrilla in the room here is do we actually believe mo had "issues" anyway. IN that way I see your point. What if he came out and vetted fine and had no major issues and ran up the track.

But the greater good here has to be the integrity of the wager. That has to be at the end of the day, more important than if we think a trainer can train or not.

Agreed that there is a difference between running poorly and having issues, however they also could be related. The horse could be running poorly because of the issues.

I have no idea if Mo had issues. I thought it was suspect that he was only going to have 2 starts before the Derby and the decision of what the 2 starts were going to be was also interesting. That said, I still viewed him as the horse to beat in the Derby, even after his race at Gulfstream, because of what he had done as a 2 year old. After seeing his Wood, I don't think he's the same horse, for whatever reason.

I'd be for full disclosure, but how is that going to be regulated exactly (not asking you specifically, just throwing it out there)? The NFL supposedly has injury disclosure, yet the Patriots have the same guys on the injury report every week, so how well is that working?

Also, while I know trainers know most of the time when something is bothering a horse, there are times when they don't, because it's not like the horse can talk (except for Zenyatta) and tell his/her connections what is bothering them.

I'd love to be able to know when horses have had procedures done, but again, it'll need to be regulated and with no commisioner, it doesn't seem realistic at this point. Doesn't mean it can't be reality at some point, but we need to take one step at a time.

toussaud
04-27-2011, 02:33 PM
i hate to break this news, but the vast,vast majority of trainers and owners feel as though they owe bettors.....gamblers, zero....nothing.

by far the attitude is that the owners put up the money, take the risk and the trainers do the work,at the barn 5:00 am day in day out. they will and do what they feel is in their best interest and that of their horse.

mullin expressed his contempt for bettors. that was no accident, he was being honest and that comment reflects the way most of them feel.
not arguing that point at all. In fact if they felt they owed us anything this would have been done already. But just because they feel that way doesn't make it right.

The real drawback as I see it is the claiming issue. would totally revamp the claiming game so to speak.

onefast99
04-27-2011, 02:37 PM
I'd love to be able to know when horses have had procedures done, but again, it'll need to be regulated and with no commisioner, it doesn't seem realistic at this point. Doesn't mean it can't be reality at some point, but we need to take one step at a time.

__________________

If a horse was off 6 months after running badly should the trainer or owner tell you what was done to the horse during that time off? Isn't that what makes this game a difficult one to win at, the unknown?

sonnyp
04-27-2011, 02:43 PM
not arguing that point at all. In fact if they felt they owed us anything this would have been done already. But just because they feel that way doesn't make it right.

The real drawback as I see it is the claiming issue. would totally revamp the claiming game so to speak.


some trainers don't even "level" with the owners. i said it in the other mo thread that it's a bullshit business and the runnin horse guys are 10X worse than the harness guys.

onefast99
04-27-2011, 02:56 PM
some trainers don't even "level" with the owners. i said it in the other mo thread that it's a bullshit business and the runnin horse guys are 10X worse than the harness guys.
Harness horses run once a week, t-breds once a month it seems the harness trainers know how to keep the horses in training!

Dahoss9698
04-27-2011, 03:14 PM
I'd love to be able to know when horses have had procedures done, but again, it'll need to be regulated and with no commisioner, it doesn't seem realistic at this point. Doesn't mean it can't be reality at some point, but we need to take one step at a time.

__________________

If a horse was off 6 months after running badly should the trainer or owner tell you what was done to the horse during that time off? Isn't that what makes this game a difficult one to win at, the unknown?

In a perfect world, yes, it'd be nice to know, wouldn't it? As gamblers isn't more information better? If it was regulated and it wasn't such a mystery to people maybe, just maybe, some of the negative thoughts about gambling on horses wouldn't exist.

I understand why horsemen would be against this, because they (for the most part) don't care what gamblers think or want. But it doesn't make it right.

sonnyp
04-27-2011, 03:14 PM
Harness horses run once a week, t-breds once a month it seems the harness trainers know how to keep the horses in training!

the standardbred is a much, much more durable breed. having worked with both i used to say one was a "scrubwoman" and the other was a "ballerina" by comparison.

i'll take the heat, with the above being said, the "average" thorobred trainer can not hold a candle to the "average" standardbred trainer in terms of horsemanship and general knowledge about a horse.

i will grant they are 2 different breeds and require 2 different approaches to training, but i will say the harness guys are better hands on horsemen.


one last thing on the subject, as a group, the harness guys are a nicer bunch. the thorobred guys, imo, always seemed threatened and secretive and a little "full of themselves".

harness guys often visit with each other in the barns. i learned real quick with the runners, you don't just pop into another trainer's shed row. hush, hush.....very secretive !

Tom
04-27-2011, 03:30 PM
I'd be for full disclosure, but how is that going to be regulated exactly (not asking you specifically, just throwing it out there)?

Check out this link on a race day - outstanding information. It can be done when those who run the game give a shit. In this country most do not.
It is a list of each entrant and the medical history, including, *gasp* CASTRATIONS! :eek::D among other things.

http://www.hkjc.com/english/racing/Veterinary_Record.asp?race=4&venue=ST

DJofSD
04-27-2011, 03:41 PM
He then went on to lecture members of the racing press about what their role should be: "…the media has to do a better job of [presenting] more positive stories," he said. "Why do we only get the negative stories? … If you start disclosing every single thing about horse racing, whether it’s horse rescue, issues with horses, or suspensions … there are so many positives about this sport that we don’t focus on."

So, he wants the racing press to do a better job -- so that it benefits him and the trainers? IOW, they are just an extension of the business.

Silly me. I thought the press was suppose to be independent from the various parts of the industry whether that be the trainers, owners, breeders, race track operators, betting public and anything else I might have overlooked.

Message to trainers: look at what passes for the norm for other sports. Do you really think in the modern era with information the common currency, you can act and operate as if this was the turn of the 20th century?

sonnyp
04-27-2011, 03:58 PM
So, he wants the racing press to do a better job -- so that it benefits him and the trainers? IOW, they are just an extension of the business.

Silly me. I thought the press was suppose to be independent from the various parts of the industry whether that be the trainers, owners, breeders, race track operators, betting public and anything else I might have overlooked.

Message to trainers: look at what passes for the norm for other sports. Do you really think in the modern era with information the common currency, you can act and operate as if this was the turn of the 20th century?


outside of the triple crown, what constitutes "the racing press" ? not many racing beat writers left. not many care. racing has gotten as much attention as WWE recently.

Idrivetrotters
04-27-2011, 04:15 PM
As a horsemen who has worked in both TB and STB racing, I'd definitely say the STB trainers are hands down better horsemen. They still know how to paint a leg, condition a horse, and keep them competing especially when you factor in the avg Standardbreds has 30 starts a year compared to 8 with the average TB and that number is getting closer to 6.

Plus, seems like the STB people are more honest at times about the care of the horse, if there is a soreness, foot injury, etc. it seems like we all know it. We also have the luxury of qualifying races which really helps get a horse racing fit and you see any problems during those races.

If you look at close ups of Uncle Mo's legs you see he has been pin fired on the left leg and a possible "splint" injection. The hair is freshly shaved so it is a new procedure done right before the Wood.

THIS is why the betting public is going to casinos, who needs the lies, deceit, and secrecy?

Uncle Mo is still my Uncle No

Stillriledup
04-27-2011, 04:18 PM
the standardbred is a much, much more durable breed. having worked with both i used to say one was a "scrubwoman" and the other was a "ballerina" by comparison.

i'll take the heat, with the above being said, the "average" thorobred trainer can not hold a candle to the "average" standardbred trainer in terms of horsemanship and general knowledge about a horse.

i will grant they are 2 different breeds and require 2 different approaches to training, but i will say the harness guys are better hands on horsemen.


one last thing on the subject, as a group, the harness guys are a nicer bunch. the thorobred guys, imo, always seemed threatened and secretive and a little "full of themselves".

harness guys often visit with each other in the barns. i learned real quick with the runners, you don't just pop into another trainer's shed row. hush, hush.....very secretive !

Look at Barry Abrams. He's a star in the thoroughbred game, but in the harness game, well, not so much.

onefast99
04-27-2011, 04:23 PM
In a perfect world, yes, it'd be nice to know, wouldn't it? As gamblers isn't more information better? If it was regulated and it wasn't such a mystery to people maybe, just maybe, some of the negative thoughts about gambling on horses wouldn't exist.

I understand why horsemen would be against this, because they (for the most part) don't care what gamblers think or want. But it doesn't make it right.
In the automobile industry there is a service that records the information on vehicles called Carfax and another one called Autocheck. The purpose of these services is to record the vehicle history as far as any dealer performed services, accidents and title changes. If there was such a service for horses, other than the pp's, I am sure many owners as well as trainers and bettors would love to see something like this added to their information base.

sonnyp
04-27-2011, 04:28 PM
Look at Barry Abrams. He's a star in the thoroughbred game, but in the harness game, well, not so much.


i knew barry well when he was at the meadowlands. he did very well with the harness horses too. he trained a great, great champion harness horse named GUTS. great name...great racehorse.

barry sticks out with the runners cause he's never afraid to try something "new" on a horse (god forbid for running trainers, they might fail) like the rabbit ears or ear plugs to calm a horse, and he's taken a lot of criticism for,again god forbid, running his horses frequently. he shows his harness background.

sonnyp
04-27-2011, 04:39 PM
roger stein is an ex-harness guy also, and i believe, when barry went back to california from jersey, he worked for roger.

toussaud
04-27-2011, 04:56 PM
In the automobile industry there is a service that records the information on vehicles called Carfax and another one called Autocheck. The purpose of these services is to record the vehicle history as far as any dealer performed services, accidents and title changes. If there was such a service for horses, other than the pp's, I am sure many owners as well as trainers and bettors would love to see something like this added to their information base.
so now i have to ask for a carfax when i make a wager too :lol:

Jasonm921
04-27-2011, 07:05 PM
let me get this straight. It is mandated to tell me if you removed your horses balls but not for knee surgery? Is it any wonder why people stay away from this game?

sonnyp
04-27-2011, 07:42 PM
let me get this straight. It is mandated to tell me if you removed your horses balls but not for knee surgery? Is it any wonder why people stay away from this game?

the act of castoration changes the description line of the sex of the animal. a colt or horse now becomes a gelding in the description.

at present, there's no area in the past performances for vet work or surgeries.

many people bet sports. they publish a week to week injury and status report on the players during the season, but i don't believe off season medical records are public info.

Jasonm921
04-27-2011, 07:49 PM
If they have surgery...it should be reported. Bottom line. Castration doesnt change who they can race against.

Valuist
04-27-2011, 08:23 PM
There should be one thing to be learned: probably 95% of those on this site already know it but for the other 5% I will say it

NEVER bet on a horse at odds like Uncle Mo was in the Wood. Never, ever. I don't care if the horse is the second coming of Secretariat. There's just no margin for error....and in this game, they ALL get beat eventually.

Mineshaft
04-27-2011, 08:35 PM
not arguing that point at all. In fact if they felt they owed us anything this would have been done already. But just because they feel that way doesn't make it right.

The real drawback as I see it is the claiming issue. would totally revamp the claiming game so to speak.




How would you revamp the claiming game?

toussaud
04-27-2011, 08:52 PM
How would you revamp the claiming game?
I did not say I would revamp the claiming game. I said the issuing of reports telling every surgery a horse has as well as every injury a horse has, obviously has it's ramifications in the no limit hold em world of claiming. That is a legit concern, but not a greater concern than (insert amount was bet on mo in the wood) being wagered on a horse the trainer probably knew damn well wasn't right while telling everyone that would listen that he was coming into the wood "perfect".


that would be like, the super bowl coming up and the patriots telling everyone that tom brady was 1000% fine, never better and turns out he has a broken index finger and has been battling the flu all week.

onefast99
04-28-2011, 09:51 AM
so now i have to ask for a carfax when i make a wager too :lol:
It is actually called Horsefacts, I am sure if it was available today as an aid to the bettor you would buy it!

onefast99
04-28-2011, 09:56 AM
I did not say I would revamp the claiming game. I said the issuing of reports telling every surgery a horse has as well as every injury a horse has, obviously has it's ramifications in the no limit hold em world of claiming. That is a legit concern, but not a greater concern than (insert amount was bet on mo in the wood) being wagered on a horse the trainer probably knew damn well wasn't right while telling everyone that would listen that he was coming into the wood "perfect".


that would be like, the super bowl coming up and the patriots telling everyone that tom brady was 1000% fine, never better and turns out he has a broken index finger and has been battling the flu all week.
Isn't that the job of the trainer when he looks at the horse before the race to note any possible issues that can be seen with the naked eye and decide if that horse is worth the claim price? Or trying to get information from someone who may know the horse that is in question like a previous trainer? The claiming game can make or break you in this business for every single story of success there are 100's of failures.

Tom
04-28-2011, 10:43 AM
Check out this link on a race day - outstanding information. It can be done when those who run the game give a shit. In this country most do not.
It is a list of each entrant and the medical history, including, *gasp* CASTRATIONS! :eek::D among other things.

http://www.hkjc.com/english/racing/Veterinary_Record.asp?race=4&venue=ST

The link is working today - check out the medical info available.

toussaud
04-28-2011, 11:39 AM
GLENEALY STAR 26/06/2007 Castration.

MANDARIN 18/09/2010 Unacceptable performance. damn that's cold blooded