The Meadowlands....and the answer is

[sonnyp]

email from my nj horseman friend :

Teller's say no, vote was 99-11 .


hate to say it, it's probably over in east rutherford

[thespaah]

email from my nj horseman friend :

Teller's say no, vote was 99-11 .


hate to say it, it's probably over in east rutherfordselfish bastards.:mad:

[Southieboy]

http://www.harnessracing.com/news/pari-mutuelclerksrejectguralsoffer.html

[toussaud]

lol,

they are getting paid 24 dollars an hour, for something that someone can be trained to do in less than a week , with health benefits, for taking wagers, when we live in an age of ADW accounts. You have to be kidding me. Without given examples, that's alot of money in today's economy for a job that does not require a specialized skill set. Then when I sold websites / built websites for a living you had people expecting to pay you 15-20 dollars an hour, for something that you have spent years honing to be able to actually charge people to do, and these dopes are complaining about taking a cut to 20 an hour? I know very good programmers who don't charge that much.

i don't feel bad for them in the slightest. if they are that stupid they don't deserve a job. Woking is a privilege, not a right.

[macguy]

Wow, not even close.

Have to put myself in their shoes and think, what would I do?

I think I would rather vote yes, keep my job and look for a new one while I was still employed.

[point given]

Wow, not even close.

Have to put myself in their shoes and think, what would I do?

I think I would rather vote yes, keep my job and look for a new one while I was still employed.

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: Too logical to make sense to those knuckle draggers. They'd rather get 26 weeks of unemployment and no medical :bang:

[Stillriledup]

lol,

they are getting paid 24 dollars an hour, for something that someone can be trained to do in less than a week , with health benefits, for taking wagers, when we live in an age of ADW accounts. You have to be kidding me. Without given examples, that's alot of money in today's economy for a job that does not require a specialized skill set. Then when I sold websites / built websites for a living you had people expecting to pay you 15-20 dollars an hour, for something that you have spent years honing to be able to actually charge people to do, and these dopes are complaining about taking a cut to 20 an hour? I know very good programmers who don't charge that much.

i don't feel bad for them in the slightest. if they are that stupid they don't deserve a job. Woking is a privilege, not a right.

100% agree, there are people out there who are not working and desperate for any opportunity and here these people have a great opportunity and are tossing it away. What makes even less sense is that the vote wasnt close.

Wow, what can you say.

[Stillriledup]

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: Too logical to make sense to those knuckle draggers. They'd rather get 26 weeks of unemployment and no medical :bang:

They shouldnt get to collect unemployment because they're turning down a job. Isnt there some laws that say you have to 'attempt' to get a job in order to get unemployment?

[badcompany]

Union refuses to vote on job concession package meant to keep Meadowlands Racetrack open


EAST RUTHERFORD (http://www.nj.com/east-rutherford/) — A key union representing tellers at the Meadowlands Racetrack tonight refused to vote on a package of job concessions aimed at keeping the financially troubled facility open, a leader of the state’s harness racing industry said.
The failure to vote by Local 137 of the AFL-CIO could signal the end to more than 34 years of live harness racing at the track, which Gov. Chris Christie vowed to shut if the New Jersey Sports and Exposition Authority could not find an investor to lease the operation.



http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/04/union_refuses_to_vote_on_job_c.html

[pandy]

I don't understand how you can turn down that wage and excellent benefits for unskilled labor, amazing. Either they think this is a clever negotiating strategy and Gural will cave in, or they are foolish enough to believe that they can get another easy job making $19.20 an hour with benefits. I've never been so lucky. The only jobs I ever had that paid decently, I worked hard.

[Stillriledup]

I don't understand how you can turn down that wage and excellent benefits for unskilled labor, amazing. Either they think this is a clever negotiating strategy and Gural will cave in, or they are foolish enough to believe that they can get another easy job making $19.20 an hour with benefits. I've never been so lucky. The only jobs I ever had that paid decently, I worked hard.

Its incredible to tell you the truth. There's gotta be more to the story. Maybe they're delusional enough to think they're just going to go out in the world and get a similar job with benefits, a job that almost anyone can be trained to do?

[badcompany]

Either they think this is a clever negotiating strategy and Gural will cave in....

Gural is the Chairman of a billion dollar real estate company and already owns two harness tracks. With that in mind, it's easy to see why those tellers would think they had him by the short hairs.:lol:

[Stillriledup]

Gural is the Chairman of a billion dollar real estate company and already owns two harness tracks. With that in mind, it's easy to see why those tellers would think they had him by the short hairs.:lol:

:lol:

Exactly!

[Mineshaft]

why cant they just put self betting machines in and do away with the tellers?

[The Hawk]

Gural is the Chairman of a billion dollar real estate company and already owns two harness tracks. With that in mind, it's easy to see why those tellers would think they had him by the short hairs.:lol:

But using the same premise -- that he's got a lot going on -- why wouldn't he just say "to hell with this, who needs it?"

I read somewhere else that since most of the tellers are older they decided that they'll collect their checks for the next 10 months, apparently until the contract runs out, and then collect unemployment for 99 weeks. I think unemployment is around $550 a week in NJ. That's almost 3 years of getting paid and doing nothing.

I guess that contract they have is ironclad? Or could the state just close the track and effectively terminate their contracts?

[pandy]

From what I've heard, Gural won't be able to bust the union. I thought that the legislature could just vote to abolish the union's contract since they will no longer own or run the track, but apparently not.

[badcompany]

But using the same premise -- that he's got a lot going on -- why wouldn't he just say "to hell with this, who needs it?"



I've heard he was on the verge of doing so a few times during the process.

I'm primarily a harness guy, so I'm probably more familiar with Gural than most here. IMO, the reason he stuck it out to the end is that he actually is passionate about the sport of harness racing.

[redshift1]

Anyone know the rationale of the tellers, I would be interested in hearing what's being told to the members by the union? Having gone through a work stoppage before I remember accounts from union members of phony results reported by the union to give the impression of solidarity among union voters.

This whole thing sounds fishy.

[Vinman]

But using the same premise -- that he's got a lot going on -- why wouldn't he just say "to hell with this, who needs it?"

I read somewhere else that since most of the tellers are older they decided that they'll collect their checks for the next 10 months, apparently until the contract runs out, and then collect unemployment for 99 weeks. I think unemployment is around $550 a week in NJ. That's almost 3 years of getting paid and doing nothing.

I guess that contract they have is ironclad? Or could the state just close the track and effectively terminate their contracts?

I had read this too. It is beyond unfathomable that the fate of the Big M, and likely the entire Harness racing industry in NJ, could hinge on the whim of a small group of older mutuel clerks. If they are the only group that stands to scuttle the deal, get rid of them and bring in the machines and a few non-union tellers.

This is not 1976 with 17,000 people in the stands anymore. Get real.

Vinman

[Stillriledup]

I had read this too. It is beyond unfathomable that the fate of the Big M, and likely the entire Harness racing industry in NJ, could hinge on the whim of a small group of older mutuel clerks. If they are the only group that stands to scuttle the deal, get rid of them and bring in the machines and a few non-union tellers.

This is not 1976 with 17,000 people in the stands anymore. Get real.

Vinman

I agree, maybe it will work out in the end well for Gural, maybe he wanted all these tellers to resign their posts, that way, he can clean house, out with the old and in with the new, more SAM machines and less employees.

[NJ Stinks]

God forbid somebody should bring this up but I think one of the articles linked above explained the actions of the union members succintly:

“We just can’t afford to take this deal, and we didn’t want to give it a level of importance by voting on it,” Liguori said. He said the average teller makes $30,184 a year, and the average admissions worker earns $20,500.

Who can afford to live decently in North Jersey making that kind of money? And then they have to come up with even more money to pay for their health insurance down the road?

This track isn't in the boondocks as opposed to Geral's other tracks/casinos. This one is about 5 miles from Manhattan.

A few other points and then you can cream me. Being a teller at a racetrack today is a lousy job. You are taking bets from a ton of tracks everyday and you are paying out too. Make a mistake and you pay for your mistake. I wouldn't do it for $24 an hour and I'm betting most of you wouldn't either.

And Vinman, in 1976 the tellers at the Meadowlands took bets from one track - the Meadowlands. And the list of bets offered never got more complicated than a trifecta part-wheel. I'd add that tellers either took bets or cashed tickets but not both in 1976 if I was 100% sure I was right.

And Stillriledup, that's just what this country needs - less jobs and jobs that pay less.

P.S. Believe it or not, I actually like harness racing and bet it's races often.

[Stillriledup]

God forbid somebody should bring this up but I think one of the articles linked above explained the actions of the union members succintly:

“We just can’t afford to take this deal, and we didn’t want to give it a level of importance by voting on it,” Liguori said. He said the average teller makes $30,184 a year, and the average admissions worker earns $20,500.

Who can afford to live decently in North Jersey making that kind of money? And then they have to come up with even more money to pay for their health insurance down the road?

This track isn't in the boondocks as opposed to Geral's other tracks/casinos. This one is about 5 miles from Manhattan.

A few other points and then you can cream me. Being a teller at a racetrack today is a lousy job. You are taking bets from a ton of tracks everyday and you are paying out too. Make a mistake and you pay for your mistake. I wouldn't do it for $24 an hour and I'm betting most of you wouldn't either.

And Vinman, in 1976 the tellers at the Meadowlands took bets from one track - the Meadowlands. And the list of bets offered never got more complicated than a trifecta part-wheel. I'd add that tellers either took bets or cashed tickets but not both in 1976 if I was 100% sure I was right.

And Stillriledup, that's just what this country needs - less jobs and jobs that pay less.

P.S. Believe it or not, I actually like harness racing and bet it's races often.

If people are willing to work for less, than the job is paying more than it should. Supposedly, 11 tellers voted to TAKE Gural's proposal? So, some tellers thought the deal was something they would take.

[GregReinhart]

It's all about not "caving in" and weakening their position when the same thing comes up at Monmouth Park later this year. They thought if they gave in to Gural, the potential lessee of Monmouth would ask for the same concessions.

[GARY Z]

Several of my clients do business with Jeff's firm and my understanding
is he shoots from the hip.

Based upon his statements to date, this was his final hurdle and
he had bumped up his original wage/ scale to close this deal.

I can't envision his renegotiating this deal so be prepared to see Club M evaporate.

Finally, how many f**n mutual clerks are even needed at his track! :mad:

Pegasus has about 10 clerks, the lower level is the ONLY opreating
floor(about 25 clerks) when the Standardbreds are running.


I'm there every weekend and I'd guess about 40& of the patrons are using
the machines to make their bets.(aka the serious bettors)

Finally, the fan base appears to be down about 50% from last year
which again has me puzzled on hom much $$ are involved.. :confused:

[Stillriledup]

Several of my clients do business with Jeff's firm and my understanding
is he shoots from the hip.

Based upon his statements to date, this was his final hurdle and
he had bumped up his original wage/ scale to close this deal.

I can't envision his renegotiating this deal so be prepared to see Club M evaporate.

Finally, how many f**n mutual clerks are even needed at his track! :mad:

Pegasus has about 10 clerks, the lower level is the ONLY opreating
floor(about 25 clerks) when the Standardbreds are running.


I'm there every weekend and I'd guess about 40& of the patrons are using
the machines to make their bets.(aka the serious bettors)

Finally, the fan base appears to be down about 50% from last year
which again has me puzzled on hom much $$ are involved.. :confused:

Can't Gural just hire new tellers? I mean, if he puts an ad in the newspaper for "meadowlands racetrack hiring, 20 bucks an hour" don't you think they would get plenty of people wanting to work?

[DRIVEWAY]

http://www.northjersey.com/news/041411_Union_vote_could_determine_Meadowlands_trac ks_future.html

We just can’t afford to take this deal, and we didn’t want to give it a level of importance by voting on it,” Liguori said. He said the average teller makes $30,184 a year, and the average admissions worker earns $20,500.

The big question is "What does Christie do next?". They have a legal obligation to conduct the Hambletonian.

The simulcast operation at the Meadowlands is the largest in the country. Does the simulcast operation actually lose money? How does NJBETS figure into the profitability?

[pandy]

Gural has said that the simulcasting is profitable, so the track actually makes more money when it's closed for live racing, and that's because the state takes a bigger cut from the live product. That's the reason why he wants to cut the dates.

[badcompany]

God forbid somebody should bring this up but I think one of the articles linked above explained the actions of the union members succintly:

“We just can’t afford to take this deal, and we didn’t want to give it a level of importance by voting on it,” Liguori said. He said the average teller makes $30,184 a year, and the average admissions worker earns $20,500.

Who can afford to live decently in North Jersey making that kind of money? And then they have to come up with even more money to pay for their health insurance down the road?

This track isn't in the boondocks as opposed to Geral's other tracks/casinos. This one is about 5 miles from Manhattan.

A few other points and then you can cream me. Being a teller at a racetrack today is a lousy job. You are taking bets from a ton of tracks everyday and you are paying out too. Make a mistake and you pay for your mistake. I wouldn't do it for $24 an hour and I'm betting most of you wouldn't either.

And Vinman, in 1976 the tellers at the Meadowlands took bets from one track - the Meadowlands. And the list of bets offered never got more complicated than a trifecta part-wheel. I'd add that tellers either took bets or cashed tickets but not both in 1976 if I was 100% sure I was right.

And Stillriledup, that's just what this country needs - less jobs and jobs that pay less.

P.S. Believe it or not, I actually like harness racing and bet it's races often.
Since when do you have a right to have a career as a racetrack teller? It's a job, just like being in a cashier is a Walmart is a job.

If they advertised the job for $24 an hour, the line would run out into the parking lot.

As far as all the tracks they take, boo hoo hoo. That involves pushing ONE extra button at the beginning of the transaction.

[pandy]

These union workers often don't seem to realize how good they have it. Wait till they have to go out and get a job in the real world with lousy benefits, no union protections, no regular raises, etc.

[Zman179]

What I am thinking is that the union thinks that either Christie is bluffing about closing the track, or that they think that Gural wants the track so badly that he's willing to take it at an inflated price. I'm a union representative in New York, so I know that sometimes you have to fight your employer about certain things; but, sometimes you have to be smart about it. Case in point: the MLB Umpires strike.

One slight possibility that could exist is that the senior clerks might think it's better to go out on unemployment for 99 weeks and then collect their state pension. If this is indeed the case, then the "I got mine" theory wins again. Damn the junior guy, I got mine!

[DRIVEWAY]

What I am thinking is that the union thinks that either Christie is bluffing about closing the track, or that they think that Gural wants the track so badly that he's willing to take it at an inflated price. I'm a union representative in New York, so I know that sometimes you have to fight your employer about certain things; but, sometimes you have to be smart about it. Case in point: the MLB Umpires strike.

One slight possibility that could exist is that the senior clerks might think it's better to go out on unemployment for 99 weeks and then collect their state pension. If this is indeed the case, then the "I got mine" theory wins again. Damn the junior guy, I got mine!

It's even stranger than that. Gural is going to introduce SAM machines in 10 months when the union contract expires. When he does that the track will only need half the tellers. So based upon seniority the less senior workers will be out of luck in 10 months anyway. The senior clerks who have been there for most of th 35 years the track has been open are not just senior they are 60-85 years old.

So Gural is asking for a 20% wage reduction, an eventual 50% reduction in working hours/employees and increases in the benefit contributions. Where is the win-win opportunity for these tellers? Calling the tracks bluff with 99 weeks unemployment as your backup plan makes sense.

[Vinman]

The better idea.....Gural re-opens the Big M with NO mutuel clerks. None. Zero.

Put the new machines in that dispense actual cash. Meanwhile, there are still plenty of living, breathing mutuel clerks ready, willing and able to sell and cash mutuel tickets on live Big M races at every other racetrack in the United States and Canada. Phone and worldwide internet wagering continues uninterrupted.

I don't know what percentage of the Big M wagering handle is bet live on track with mutuel clerks these days, but it is probably miniscule....certainly not worth closing the track for.

Any North Jersey customers who are gun shy about not having access to Big M tellers can drive 25 minutes down to Favorites in Woodbridge, where the few tellers on duty at night are about as busy these days as the Maytag repair man.

If Favorites brought in enough of their own tellers to staff all their windows on nights the Big M runs live, they would be able to handle all Big M customers who still need live tellers. In addition, Favorites has a uniformed employee on duty whose job it is to assist customers with the self service betting machines.

Pardon me while I fax a copy of this to Jeff Gural and Chris Christie, so that the Big M may be spared the wrecking ball from the whim of a few mutuel clerks, who wouldn't hesitate to put an entire industry at risk to avoid taking a pay cut. As others have mentioned, many of these people would rather sit home and collect unemployment anyway.

This is beyond comical.


Vinman

[Bluto Blutarsky]

Friday, April 15, 2011
By Jeffrey Gural, Chairman of American Racing and Entertainment

Obviously, I am very disappointed with the vote yesterday by the tellers not to ratify the proposal we gave them to extend their contract three years at the expiration of the existing contract next February.

This is extremely disappointing, considering I have actually raised the money which I thought was the hard part. I believe we are very close to an agreement with the state with only two or three open points remaining.

At this point, I think we have to assume that the Meadowlands will not reopen for racing on May 7 unless the tellers reconsider.

I am looking into the possibility of relocating the Graduate and the Cutler Memorial stakes races, which were originally scheduled to be raced at the Meadowlands on May 7, with a final on May 14, to the other tracks that I own. I would recommend making the payments for those two races that are due today and the money will be refunded if the race is cancelled.

I am actually on my way to Vernon for opening night. I will discuss this with the horsemen at both Tioga and Vernon to see if we can come up with something as I think it would be unfair at this late date to cancel those two races.

Hopefully, the tellers will have a change of heart, but in the meantime I think it would be prudent to assume that the facility will not reopen for racing on May 7.

I would like to thank the many horsemen who contributed to this effort financially as we raised close to $1 million to cover the costs associated with trying to keep the Meadowlands open. I am very sorry that this effort did not end the way we had all hoped but it is not for lack of effort.

[badcompany]

Maybe I'm cynical, but the whole thing strikes me as a Dog and Pony Show. I don't believe Gural believes he has a shot at making this happen. He's just making connections and getting his name in the news for when the Meadowlands goes belly up. At that point, he can say he gave it the old college try but his tracks, Tioga and Vernon, are still open.

I posted that, here, on March 21, but, to be fair, I believe that when Gural started to get the financing together, he did believe he had a shot of making it happen.

[Charli125]

God forbid somebody should bring this up but I think one of the articles linked above explained the actions of the union members succintly:

“We just can’t afford to take this deal, and we didn’t want to give it a level of importance by voting on it,” Liguori said. He said the average teller makes $30,184 a year, and the average admissions worker earns $20,500.

Who can afford to live decently in North Jersey making that kind of money? And then they have to come up with even more money to pay for their health insurance down the road?


The annual salaries mentioned above, at $24 an hour, equate to about 20 hours a week. I know a lot of people that would work a part-time job and make that kind of money. If they were working full-time, at $24 an hour, that would be 50K a year.

I say shut down the track. Then re-open it the next day. Contracts are voided and we can get down to business.

[sonnyp]

I posted that, here, on March 21, but, to be fair, I believe that when Gural started to get the financing together, he did believe he had a shot of making it happen.


he wouldn't do it for nothing, but the horsemen consider him one of their own, trust him, and believe he has an honest dedication to the industry.

[Kelso]

He said the average teller makes $30,184 a year, and the average admissions worker earns $20,500.

Who can afford to live decently in North Jersey making that kind of money?Who said every job ... or any job ... is supposed to enable anyone to "live decently" (whatever that subjective adverb is supposed to mean)? Most of the subject jobs are part-time, seasonal and unskilled. The only people who make money in those situations are union big shots who con the workers into retaining them.

[thespaah]

http://www.harnessracing.com/news/pari-mutuelclerksrejectguralsoffer.html
Incredible. SO they take it down to $20 per hour with fewer bennies. So what?
Now these morons have NOTHING....I have to ask, did the union and tellers really think Gural was bluffing about closure of the track?
What do the tellers do now? The ones that are ready to retire won't get the pensions and benefits they were expecting. The State does not have the money to pay the retirees nor does is have the money to operate the track. And that's the reason why the track will be shuttered.
To the tellers who voted no...Good riddance you selfish self centered jack wagons.

[thespaah]

But using the same premise -- that he's got a lot going on -- why wouldn't he just say "to hell with this, who needs it?"

I read somewhere else that since most of the tellers are older they decided that they'll collect their checks for the next 10 months, apparently until the contract runs out, and then collect unemployment for 99 weeks. I think unemployment is around $550 a week in NJ. That's almost 3 years of getting paid and doing nothing.

I guess that contract they have is ironclad? Or could the state just close the track and effectively terminate their contracts?
The way I see it is because the tellers no longer have a place to work and it is THEY who were offered the opportunity to keep their jobs going forward, the workers should get NOTHING. Essentially, they quit their jobs. In my book, if you walk off the job, you are gone and the employer owes you nothing.

[thespaah]

why cant they just put self betting machines in and do away with the tellers?or let an ADW operate the system.
Here's an idea..I drop off appliances and other metals to a scrap yard here. They pay cash by the pound. Once my truck is weighed out they give me a slip of paper with a bar code. I then go to what is essentially an ATM. I scan the receipt bar code and the machine dispenses the appropriate amount of cash. I cannot see why a racetrack could not have the same system.
The machines do not go on strike, do not call in sick, do not need health insurance or pensions. If one fails to do it's job, it gets replaced and there's no possibility of the machine filing a grievance. A machine cannot claim sexual harassment or discrimination and the machines do not have to leave work watch kid's soccer practice.

[badcompany]

Who said every job ... or any job ... is supposed to enable anyone to "live decently"?

I think it was this guy:

http://rlv.zcache.com/karl_marx_poster-p228300836381785930tdcp_400.jpg

[NJ Stinks]

Who said every job ... or any job ... is supposed to enable anyone to "live decently" (whatever that subjective adverb is supposed to mean)? Most of the subject jobs are part-time, seasonal and unskilled. The only people who make money in those situations are union big shots who con the workers into retaining them.

From what I can see from the articles posted, over the years the union helped these workers negotiate wages up to $24 an hour and health benefits. And almost everyone who posted in this thread agree that is excessive compensation.

Yet you claim that the union is the only winner "in those situations".

OK, Kelso, I'll bite. Explain why you think the tellers got conned (for years apparently) by union bigshots into making what you believe to be too much money. :confused:

[GARY Z]

per the line in Good Fellas, when Smoking Joe is nailed in a basement,
thinking he was being "made" rather than nailed.

Thanks Gov, for closing the facility for Simulcasting, placing another
nail in TB and Standardbred racing..


Opportunity: possibility to open "Favorites" restaurant/Otb facilities
across the State?

My revenge: Boycott of AC , which is easy, as I haven't been in the
slums for the past 15 years which hopefully others will follow.


:mad: :mad: :mad:

[Canarsie]

With the Super Bowl coming in 2014 I find it hard to fathom that the Meadowlands will be shut down completely. There is more to this story than meets the eye.

Just my two cents.

[Bennie]

Good timing for the Super Bowl. Close the track, tear down the structure and add more parking space. They get more for parking than some patrons bet in a day

[DRIVEWAY]

Rumors at the Meadowlands have Chris Christie being contacted by the Governors of three other states. They were concerned by the possible closing of simulcasting at the Meadowlands. They fear the revenue loss to the tracks in their states would wind up with those tracks having to close.

The Meadowlands is the premier simulcast location in the country. The simulcast operation is profitable. Yes profitable with all the current union contracts in place. Closing this facility will have a domino affect throughout the industry.

If live racing is unprofitable then make adjustments to make it profitable. If you can't then close it down. However, if shorting the racing season makes it profitable than do that. Adjustments to racing schedules is happening all over the country.

Is Chris Christie so incompetent that he can't sell a profitable simulcast operation? Come on Christie tell us what's really going on? What casino and/or land developer has first dibs on this property. What backroom deals have you cut?

[thespaah]

Rumors at the Meadowlands have Chris Christie being contacted by the Governors of three other states. They were concerned by the possible closing of simulcasting at the Meadowlands. They fear the revenue loss to the tracks in their states would wind up with those tracks having to close.

The Meadowlands is the premier simulcast location in the country. The simulcast operation is profitable. Yes profitable with all the current union contracts in place. Closing this facility will have a domino affect throughout the industry.

If live racing is unprofitable then make adjustments to make it profitable. If you can't then close it down. However, if shorting the racing season makes it profitable than do that. Adjustments to racing schedules is happening all over the country.

Is Chris Christie so incompetent that he can't sell a profitable simulcast operation? Come on Christie tell us what's really going on? What casino and/or land developer has first dibs on this property. What backroom deals have you cut?
It appears the politicians representing the southern half of the state have achieved lock down status regarding competition with the AC casinos. IMO that translates to "there will be no casino at the Meadowlands" ..That is as long as the political power structure in South Jersey continues to run the show. Without a casino at the Meadowlands ,the place is shuttered.

[affirmedny]

Rumors at the Meadowlands have Chris Christie being contacted by the Governors of three other states. They were concerned by the possible closing of simulcasting at the Meadowlands. They fear the revenue loss to the tracks in their states would wind up with those tracks having to close.

The Meadowlands is the premier simulcast location in the country. The simulcast operation is profitable. Yes profitable with all the current union contracts in place. Closing this facility will have a domino affect throughout the industry.

If live racing is unprofitable then make adjustments to make it profitable. If you can't then close it down. However, if shorting the racing season makes it profitable than do that. Adjustments to racing schedules is happening all over the country.

Is Chris Christie so incompetent that he can't sell a profitable simulcast operation? Come on Christie tell us what's really going on? What casino and/or land developer has first dibs on this property. What backroom deals have you cut?

They used to claim that more money is bet on horse racing in that one building than any other single place in america. I wonder if that's still true.

[onefast99]

From what I can see from the articles posted, over the years the union helped these workers negotiate wages up to $24 an hour and health benefits. And almost everyone who posted in this thread agree that is excessive compensation.

Yet you claim that the union is the only winner "in those situations".

OK, Kelso, I'll bite. Explain why you think the tellers got conned (for years apparently) by union bigshots into making what you believe to be too much money. :confused:
You just let the fox in the hen house.

http://www.dogproductshop.co.uk/smile/fighting/fighting0036.gif

[onefast99]

Rumors at the Meadowlands have Chris Christie being contacted by the Governors of three other states. They were concerned by the possible closing of simulcasting at the Meadowlands. They fear the revenue loss to the tracks in their states would wind up with those tracks having to close.

The Meadowlands is the premier simulcast location in the country. The simulcast operation is profitable. Yes profitable with all the current union contracts in place. Closing this facility will have a domino affect throughout the industry.

If live racing is unprofitable then make adjustments to make it profitable. If you can't then close it down. However, if shorting the racing season makes it profitable than do that. Adjustments to racing schedules is happening all over the country.

Is Chris Christie so incompetent that he can't sell a profitable simulcast operation? Come on Christie tell us what's really going on? What casino and/or land developer has first dibs on this property. What backroom deals have you cut?
I am sure Mr Hanson will be first in line.

[sonnyp]

this is the latest from my nj horseman friend :

Rumor has it the tellers will meet this week and revote on taking

the package presented to them, they thought they were going to
be able to work at the track the rest of the year doing simulcast,
now they realize May 12th they have no job.............Gural just
said in a interview they would have to be STUPID,STUPID, not
to do this.................Lets hope.......................

[Kelso]

OK, Kelso, I'll bite. Explain why you think the tellers got conned (for years apparently) by union bigshots into making what you believe to be too much money. :confused:Show me where the extra ... and now doomed ... hourly pay was worth the all the years of dues paid out by unskilled laborers.

The tellers' rate of pay was more due to the inefficiency of public bureacracies, and the "not my money" incompetence of the bureacrats who run them, than to any efforts or guidance provided by union "leaders." Non-union public workers are as generally overpaid as the unionized trough-swillers ... but they don't have to feed any of their haul into the hefty salaries of union big-shots.

[badcompany]

Rumors at the Meadowlands have Chris Christie being contacted by the Governors of three other states. They were concerned by the possible closing of simulcasting at the Meadowlands. They fear the revenue loss to the tracks in their states would wind up with those tracks having to close.

The Meadowlands is the premier simulcast location in the country. The simulcast operation is profitable. Yes profitable with all the current union contracts in place. Closing this facility will have a domino affect throughout the industry.

We heard this same gloom and doom report about NYCOTB which I'm pretty sure took in more than the Meadowlands. It's not 1980. People will find other ways of getting a bet in.


Is Chris Christie so incompetent that he can't sell a profitable simulcast operation? Come on Christie tell us what's really going on?

Even if the operation is profitable, it's hard to justify allocating a sprawling facility that includes a mile oval, stables, a grandstand and a huge parking lot for a simlucast facility which really only requires a big room, televisions and betting machines.


What casino and/or land developer has first dibs on this property. What backroom deals have you cut?

Probably Harrah's or Sands. Harrah's has already ventured out of AC to open Chester. So, the precendent has been set.

[David-LV]

My sources tell me:

There will be racing at The Meadowlands on May 7, this union problem will be resolved.

Nobody can be that stupid, this union thing is a big bluff.

________
David-LV

[pandy]

I believe that too, and have all along, the track will open. Health benefits are very expensive.

[badcompany]

Nobody can be that stupid, this union thing is a big bluff.

________
David-LV

Being from Vegas, you surely know that when one bluffs, it's done in an effort to convince your opponent that you have the better hand. Are a bunch of obsolete paramutual tellers with no other marketable skills, who work at a money losing track, which the Governor of the state wants closed, in a position to bluff?:lol:

[DRIVEWAY]

Being from Vegas, you surely know that when one bluffs, it's done in an effort to convince your opponent that you have the better hand. Are a bunch of obsolete paramutual tellers with no other marketable skills, who work at a money losing track, which the Governor of the state wants closed, in a position to bluff?:lol:

Normally you would be right. But this is a complicated situation.

1.) Gural will request fewer racing days
2.) Gural will introduce as many SAM's as possible
3.) Fewer tellers will be able to get seven 5 1/2 hour shifts required to qualify for health insurance.
4.) Those few who qualify for health benefits will pay more
5.) If the track closes all the tellers get unemployment for up to 99 weeks. Those who need Health insurance will pay for Cobra for 18 months.
6.) Most of the tellers are already on Medicare so they won't be affected.

There are 400+ members of the Tellers union. They must vote for reduced hours(30-50%), reduced hourly wage(20%) and pay more for health insurance if they are still lucky to qualify. The alternative for the majority is severance in the form of unemployment for up to 99 weeks. Yes, the younger workers will be stupid not to vote yes but the majority of older tellers will probably vote no.

The irony is that with reduced wages and hours, they will make more on unemployment going forward for at least 52-99 weeks.

It will probably come down to how the union leaders spin the situation. Remember their survival is at stake as well. Ultimately the tellers will vote for their best interest. My quess is that these obsolete parimutual tellers will vote NO.

Will Christie being driving one of the ceremonial bulldozers?

[pandy]

I was just talking to a friend of mine who’s a pro gambler at the Meadowlands. He made a good point that they also receive tips, by the way, so they make extra money off the books.

But he’s been talking to the tellers every night and he said that the older guys (they call them the 76ers) are defiant. They are still pissed over the pay cut they took a few years ago and they saying things like F Christie and F Gural we're not caving in. They also think that they’re calling Gural’s bluff and that he’ll cave in. It’s unbelievable. My friend and someone well known in the industry have been trying to talk some sense to them.

The younger tellers are voting yes, of course, they don’t want to lose their jobs.

One thing I didn’t know, Gural is also cutting their paid vacation days. These guys get 24 paid vacation days. They have that entitlement attitude, like the world owes them a living because they're in the union.

One thing that I find incredible about all of this, one of the reasons why these guys don’t give a damn is because they're going to collect unemployment if the track closes. This is amazing. They should not be allowed to collect unemployment. Unemployment is for people that get fired. These guys are turning down a job at $19.20 an hour, with full health benefits, paid vacation, etc. And they are eligible to collect? Insanity.

[Robert Goren]

After the teller issue is solved, he will still have to deal with the horsemen's union. They are going to have to take big cuts in days and size of purses in order this to become a profitable operation. good luck with that.

[sonnyp]

After the teller issue is solved, he will still have to deal with the horsemen's union. They are going to have to take big cuts in days and size of purses in order this to become a profitable operation. good luck with that.

the horsemen consider gural to be one of their own and trust him as they see him as their savior.

they will accept whatever he offers. they know if there is success down the road, they will share in it.

[thespaah]

I was just talking to a friend of mine who’s a pro gambler at the Meadowlands. He made a good point that they also receive tips, by the way, so they make extra money off the books.

But he’s been talking to the tellers every night and he said that the older guys (they call them the 76ers) are defiant. They are still pissed over the pay cut they took a few years ago and they saying things like F Christie and F Gural we're not caving in. They also think that they’re calling Gural’s bluff and that he’ll cave in. It’s unbelievable. My friend and someone well known in the industry have been trying to talk some sense to them.

The younger tellers are voting yes, of course, they don’t want to lose their jobs.

One thing I didn’t know, Gural is also cutting their paid vacation days. These guys get 24 paid vacation days. They have that entitlement attitude, like the world owes them a living because they're in the union.

One thing that I find incredible about all of this, one of the reasons why these guys don’t give a damn is because they're going to collect unemployment if the track closes. This is amazing. They should not be allowed to collect unemployment. Unemployment is for people that get fired. These guys are turning down a job at $19.20 an hour, with full health benefits, paid vacation, etc. And they are eligible to collect? Insanity.
IN most sates if one is terminated for cause they are ineligible for unemployment benefits. That may have changed.
Foe example I collected UE bennies for a short time many years ago. I was required to make a minimum of 6 contacts every two weeks in order to be paid. That no longer seems to apply. Unemployment is perhaps the easiest of all entitlements to receive. Unemployment used to be a max 26 weeks. Now it's eternal. That said ,it comes as no surprised these old farts after screwing the State will now screw the State (taxpayers) again. Not one of these jerks deserves a friggin dime. They were offered to keep their jobs. In my mind, they quit. If you quit your job ,you get nothing.

[thespaah]

After the teller issue is solved, he will still have to deal with the horsemen's union. They are going to have to take big cuts in days and size of purses in order this to become a profitable operation. good luck with that.
Horsemen's "union"?....What is it called? Never heard of a "Horsemen's Union"....What is it, the Amalgamated International Brotherhood of Equine Mechanics and Associated Trades International"...? There is the SBOA of New Jersey. Is THAT the horsemen's union?
C'mon....The people that race horses are realistic. They have to know their sport is in very deep trouble. And they must know that making demands that cannot be fulfilled is foolish and potentially lethal to their business. These people must see the empty facility every time they take to the track..
"We demand"?.....Yeah, you keep making demands. And the doors close and now you have to leave the state because Freehold is circling the bowl as well. Those jokers are offering 1970's level purses. As a matter of fact I checked some of my old Meadowlands programs and today's purses are equal to or even lower than what they were paying 25 years ago.

[alhattab]

I collected UE bennies for a short time many years ago. I was required to make a minimum of 6 contacts every two weeks in order to be paid.

Anyone that has seen "History of the World Part I" knows this.

Unemployment worker (Maude) "Occupation?"
Unemployed (cast unknown, forlornly) "Gladiator"

Maude: "Oh. Did you kill last week?"
UE: "No"

Maude: "Did you try to kill last week?"
UE: "Yeah"

Maude: "OK either you kill this week or we change your status".

[affirmedny]

Gural and Hollywood Heyden speak on the subject:

http://www.standardbredcanada.ca/news/4-17-11/drunk-with-power.html

[badcompany]

The simulcast operation is profitable. Yes profitable with all the current union contracts in place.


What is the basis for this claim?

In this interview, Gural states in no uncertain terms that simucast is UNprofitable. That's why the place will be shutting everything down if no agreement is reached.

Gural also says the 20% is take-it-or-leave-it.

Anyone at all interested in this story should listen to this. Great post Affirmed.

Gural and Hollywood Heyden speak on the subject:

http://www.standardbredcanada.ca/news/4-17-11/drunk-with-power.html

[thespaah]

Anyone that has seen "History of the World Part I" knows this.

Unemployment worker (Maude) "Occupation?"
Unemployed (cast unknown, forlornly) "Gladiator"

Maude: "Oh. Did you kill last week?"
UE: "No"

Maude: "Did you try to kill last week?"
UE: "Yeah"

Maude: "OK either you kill this week or we change your status".

here ya go!!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBIxGjSHzF8

[DRIVEWAY]

What is the basis for this claim?

In this interview, Gural states in no uncertain terms that simucast is UNprofitable. That's why the place will be shutting everything down if no agreement is reached.

Gural also says the 20% is take-it-or-leave-it.

Anyone at all interested in this story should listen to this. Great post Affirmed.

It was interesting to hear that interview. Gural states that the Meadowlands loses 1 million a month. He didn't specify how those loses were broken out.
He also said that he raised 100 Million to carry out his plan.

My question becomes why would investors come up with 100 million when the business is losing 1 million a month? He has a plan to be profitable perhaps very profitable. The investors will make a lot of money!

The 20% paycut makes how big a difference. Is it the difference between profitable and very profitable? Is it the difference between losing money and being profitable?

The union has every right to be sceptical. Vote no and let it close. Put as much pressure on Christie and Gural as they are trying to put on these tellers.
Maybe Gural should make the tellers and the other employees an offer they can't refuse. Offer all employees some form of stock options or profit sharing.
Make this a win-win outcome.

If the union trusts Jeff Gural or Chris Christie they are fools. Negotiate in good faith or Gural should just go away. Take it or leave is a two way street.

[thespaah]

It was interesting to hear that interview. Gural states that the Meadowlands loses 1 million a month. He didn't specify how those loses were broken out.
He also said that he raised 100 Million to carry out his plan.

My question becomes why would investors come up with 100 million when the business is losing 1 million a month? He has a plan to be profitable perhaps very profitable. The investors will make a lot of money!

The 20% paycut makes how big a difference. Is it the difference between profitable and very profitable? Is it the difference between losing money and being profitable?

The union has every right to be sceptical. Vote no and let it close. Put as much pressure on Christie and Gural as they are trying to put on these tellers.
Maybe Gural should make the tellers and the other employees an offer they can't refuse. Offer all employees some form of stock options or profit sharing.
Make this a win-win outcome.

If the union trusts Jeff Gural or Chris Christie they are fools. Negotiate in good faith or Gural should just go away. Take it or leave is a two way street.
The union and the tellers should be run off the property. The job of mutuel clerk is at best a barely above minimum wage low skill, entry level position. It is also part time. $24 per hour plus benefits is an inappropriate amount of money for that job.

[DRIVEWAY]

The union and the tellers should be run off the property. The job of mutuel clerk is at best a barely above minimum wage low skill, entry level position. It is also part time. $24 per hour plus benefits is an inappropriate amount of money for that job.

Perhaps that's Gural's sentiments as well. Maybe that's his longterm plan. Maybe the union is right to say NO.

[Pacingguy]

Some of these tellers are collecting social security already. What's the big deal if they lose their jobs? All they are losing is their beer money. The younger guys depend on this money to feed the family and raise the kids.

I am curious as to how many of these tellers are collecting social security?

The other thing I fear is the union leadership may not be representing the rank and files best interests. I think the battle is really over Monmouth Park where all the contracts have expired. Conceed here and what happens when they open up contract negotiations at Monmouth?

[phattty]

driveway said........The union has every right to be sceptical. Vote no and let it close. Put as much pressure on Christie and Gural as they are trying to put on these tellers.
Maybe Gural should make the tellers and the other employees an offer they can't refuse. Offer all employees some form of stock options or profit sharing.
Make this a win-win outcome.

If the union trusts Jeff Gural or Chris Christie they are fools. Negotiate in good faith or Gural should just go away. Take it or leave is a two way street.[/QUOTE]


:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:


unions being criticized at every turn these days....nice to see a different perspective

[pandy]

Driveway said: [I]The union has every right to be sceptical. Vote no and let it close. Put as much pressure on Christie and Gural as they are trying to put on these tellers.

This is exactly what unions have been doing for decades, playing hard ball. And, it has certainly worked well for unions, especially government workers in states like New Jersey, New York, California, etc. But, economic conditions are dramatically different now, and the Meadowlands is losing money. So the union's ability to negotiate is tenuous, particularly in this situation where they are negotiating with a private enterprise, not the state.

[DRIVEWAY]

Driveway said: [I]The union has every right to be sceptical. Vote no and let it close. Put as much pressure on Christie and Gural as they are trying to put on these tellers.

This is exactly what unions have been doing for decades, playing hard ball. And, it has certainly worked well for unions, especially government workers in states like New Jersey, New York, California, etc. But, economic conditions are dramatically different now, and the Meadowlands is losing money. So the union's ability to negotiate is tenuous, particularly in this situation where they are negotiating with a private enterprise, not the state.

The facility is underutilized. There are areas with little or no activity. The casinos, ATW's and NJBETs have reduced traffic. The track doesn't need all the space.

Pandy, I'm willing to bet that you could make the Meadowlands profitable. This is a gigantic piece of commercial real estate in a great location.

At least half of the Meadowlands racetrack could be turned into business office space.(lawyers, architects, business schools, retail outlets ...)

The problem at the Meadowlands is the management of the racetrack. These political hacks have no business sense.

Gural wants to build a smaller racetrack and knock down the current Meadowlands facility. I think thats stupid. Just better utilize the commercial space that's available.

Yes, Pandy you could make the Meadowlands profitable.

[Canarsie]

I have a few questions here that maybe some can be answered.

1. Is Gural putting up a cent? He says he has a partner (Cantor Gaming)willing to put up money but doesn't state how much. Just a hunch but I think Cantor wants to run exchange wagering and the OTW's which can be VERY profitable.

2. Cantor has political connections and lobbyists they must know something we all don't.

3. The profit sharing and stock idea is brilliant could be a deal clincher. :ThmbUp:

4. The statement that tellers get tips while true only a very SMALL minority do that. See the thread here whether a teller should be tipped. Unless it's a big time player who uses the heavy hitter room tips are negligible.


Now lets go to the unskilled labor discussion. I agree that's it's a very good paying job with excellent benefits. But to say anyone can do it is irrational. First they are responsible for shortages most people would cringe over that. Today's youth (majority) can't even subtract without a calculator. Ever go to a store where the computers are down? Most cashiers are clueless how to give change.

I was shocked when speaking to a teller I know for a long time about certain conditions that I never even thought of. He stated that he gets screamed at, reported, food and drink thrown at, and generally treated like a piece of crap to keep this PG. Not too many people would take a job like that for minimum wage. You should be surprised how many people still want to use a teller the numbers are staggering at the Meadowlands. Let's go back to the tipping argument because you don't EVER have to tip a machine. As for me the only time I use a teller now is my initial investment if I don't want to use my NJBets card or to receive cash instead of depositing it. But I am in the minority most DEMAND tellers.

What makes anyone running the NJSEA skilled? I don't see anyone knocking them or their salaries what have they done in the last decade to entice future customers? When I walked in the other day they was a big sign saying buffet for Derby day priced at $42.95.

http://www.thebigm.com/event_detail.aspx?id=1793

I told my friend their nuts they would be lucky to get 100 people at that price. If it was $20 the place would be packed this isn't the old days when you needed a jacket and tie to get into the Pegasus. Even Gural stated that food was a big issue there.

There is still lots of distrust between the tellers and NJSEA. This is what the teller told me and the same thing is now being reported.

http://blogs.northjersey.com/blogs/meadowlandsmatters/comments/meadowlands_racetrack_melodrama_the_context/


Gural should state exactly what he plans to do with the NJSEA executives it sure would make thing simpler. In fact there must be a political deal here why wouldn't he want to bring in his own management team?

Off my soapbox.

[pandy]

Gural said that if this falls through he will lose about $20,000, and that is mainly legal fees, he is not actually putting up any of the one million that he said he has raised from investors.

In response to Driveway's position that the property is underutilized, good point, but I'm not sure that we know exactly what the new owners have planned. Yes, Gural has said that they want to build a new grandstand and he has some different marketing ideas for harness racing in NJ.

He also said that it was a lot easier to raise $100 million than he thought it would be. If the new owners are willing to take this huge financial risk, I think it's obvious that they have alternative plans for the property that may or may not have anything to do with racing. We have to remember that Gural made a fortune in real estate.

[Robert Goren]

Horsemen's "union"?....What is it called? Never heard of a "Horsemen's Union"....What is it, the Amalgamated International Brotherhood of Equine Mechanics and Associated Trades International"...? There is the SBOA of New Jersey. Is THAT the horsemen's union?
C'mon....The people that race horses are realistic. They have to know their sport is in very deep trouble. And they must know that making demands that cannot be fulfilled is foolish and potentially lethal to their business. These people must see the empty facility every time they take to the track..
"We demand"?.....Yeah, you keep making demands. And the doors close and now you have to leave the state because Freehold is circling the bowl as well. Those jokers are offering 1970's level purses. As a matter of fact I checked some of my old Meadowlands programs and today's purses are equal to or even lower than what they were paying 25 years ago.That is them. Meadowlands can not run without an agreement with them. In order to get better purses they need to get the handles up. I am constantly amazed by the fact the horsemen do not realize that their livelihood is totally dependent on how much money is wagered on their races. Right now, it is very hard to get anyone to bet on a harness race. Why do you think that is? If they can't answer that question and come up with a solution to getting more action on that sport, none of the fixes of outside money will save the sport for very long. You think the horsemen would be leading the way in finding ways to get more money bet on their sport. Sadly that is not the case. The only thing they are fighting for is more purse money for races that very few people want to wager on.

[onefast99]

The facility is underutilized. There are areas with little or no activity. The casinos, ATW's and NJBETs have reduced traffic. The track doesn't need all the space.

Pandy, I'm willing to bet that you could make the Meadowlands profitable. This is a gigantic piece of commercial real estate in a great location.

At least half of the Meadowlands racetrack could be turned into business office space.(lawyers, architects, business schools, retail outlets ...)

The problem at the Meadowlands is the management of the racetrack. These political hacks have no business sense.

Gural wants to build a smaller racetrack and knock down the current Meadowlands facility. I think thats stupid. Just better utilize the commercial space that's available.

Yes, Pandy you could make the Meadowlands profitable.\
You left out one major detail, Giants/Jets Stadium. The facility sits right on top of the racetrack I am sure that the owners of that facility will have a lot to say about Gural or anyone else cramping their style. Even if football isn't played beginning in mid August, there are plenty of concerts and events at the stadium that will keep those wishing to go to the track home. In the fall the stadium will be used every Sunday so no racing on that day as in the past.

[sonnyp]

\
You left out one major detail, Giants/Jets Stadium. The facility sits right on top of the racetrack I am sure that the owners of that facility will have a lot to say about Gural or anyone else cramping their style. Even if football isn't played beginning in mid August, there are plenty of concerts and events at the stadium that will keep those wishing to go to the track home. In the fall the stadium will be used every Sunday so no racing on that day as in the past.


this is a non-issue. part of the deal to build the new giant stadium with the private money included the racetrack always bowing to the major stadium events with no racing.

[onefast99]

this is a non-issue. part of the deal to build the new giant stadium with the private money included the racetrack always bowing to the major stadium events with no racing.
This isn't an issue. Ripping down the grandstand and building a new one during football season won't happen.

[sonnyp]

This isn't an issue. Ripping down the grandstand and building a new one during football season won't happen.

why not ?

[badcompany]

I was shocked when speaking to a teller I know for a long time about certain conditions that I never even thought of. He stated that he gets screamed at, reported, food and drink thrown at, and generally treated like a piece of crap to keep this PG. Not too many people would take a job like that for minimum wage.


Turnover is a pretty reliable indicator of whether a job is good or bad. That tellers have been there for so many years tells me it's not that bad. There's no fiberglass separating the tellers from the customers, as was the case with NYCOTB. From my own observations, those incidents you've described are very rare. Personally, I've done my share of yelling and cursing at the track, but NEVER at a teller.

[sonnyp]

ticket writer/cashiers in vegas write and cash races and sports and put up with the same as-hole customers and make no where near what the meadowlands guys are crying about.

[badcompany]

. You should be surprised how many people still want to use a teller the numbers are staggering at the Meadowlands. Let's go back to the tipping argument because you don't EVER have to tip a machine. As for me the only time I use a teller now is my initial investment if I don't want to use my NJBets card or to receive cash instead of depositing it. But I am in the minority most DEMAND tellers.



This just speaks to the fact that racing hasn't replaced its aging fan base. Do you really think that the laptop/Ipod/blackberry/Ipad generation would DEMAND a teller instead of a machine?

Regarding tipping the cashier, I tip my barber because he performs a service for me that I don't want to do myself: cut my own hair.

I don't want to go to a teller. I HAVE to go because the machines don't dispense cash.

[onefast99]

why not ?
The area just went through three years of traffic nightmares and if the Xanadu project starts up that will make things even worse. Maybe he will knock it down next spring and have it ready for the 2014 superbowl year.

[sonnyp]

The area just went through three years of traffic nightmares and if the Xanadu project starts up that will make things even worse. Maybe he will knock it down next spring and have it ready for the 2014 superbowl year.

the demolition would probably be implosion type.... not a lot of time to haul it away. if i remember the site correctly, he's going to have to demolish a couple barns on the backside to make room for the new betting facility.

i'd imagine he'd keep using the current building, downsized of course, until the backside is revamped and ready to go. he could then switch the start/finish line, move into the new building and implode the old one.

i know many horsemen ship in to race. i wonder if they'll need to replace the barns they'll need to knock down ? i'm sure they won't want to. track security and maintenance is a huge issue. in the winter, that track requires 24 hour work or it freezes.

[sonnyp]

i'm reading where gural is meeting with a "representative group of tellers" on april 20 to clarify what he called misconceptions about his offer which was turned down last week by the union.

where does this leave the union ?

does this mean the union is no longer representing the tellers ?

[Robert Goren]

Turnover is a pretty reliable indicator of whether a job is good or bad. That tellers have been there for so many years tells me it's not that bad. There's no fiberglass separating the tellers from the customers, as was the case with NYCOTB. From my own observations, those incidents you've described are very rare. Personally, I've done my share of yelling and cursing at the track, but NEVER at a teller.Ditto. I have never gotten beat because of a bad ride from a teller.;)

[Kelso]

... I'm not sure that we know exactly what the new owners have planned.

<snip>

If the new owners are willing to take this huge financial risk, I haven't read or heard anywhere that the negotiations with the state have turned from "leasing" into "buying." Have you?

If it's still leasing ... Gural has few, if any, development options beyond racing.

[sonnyp]

my buddy nj horseman tells me gural is happy to meet tomorrow with the union reps who are still "in".

gural wants this to fly but says if the union comes with a desire to clarify the original offer he'll be glad to answer the questions. if they're looking for sweetners...... they'll leave disappointed.

he says he offered all that he could

[sonnyp]

don't know this as fact, but another source tells me the $100 million for the lease and reconstruction was raised so easily because gural believes slots are in the equation within the time frame of his lease period.

[Stillriledup]

don't know this as fact, but another source tells me the $100 million for the lease and reconstruction was raised so easily because gural believes slots are in the equation within the time frame of his lease period.

Slots ARE within the equasion. Everyone has their price, we're in a society where if you have enough money, everyone is for sale.

[onefast99]

I haven't read or heard anywhere that the negotiations with the state have turned from "leasing" into "buying." Have you?

If it's still leasing ... Gural has few, if any, development options beyond racing.
It is strictly a lease deal for 5 years at club med. MP is also a 5 year lease deal, that is why Brunetti and Stronach pulled out of MP. About 6 years ago Stronach wanted to buy MP but the NJSEA wouldn't include the land that was directly across from the track, why? That is the 64k question!

[Run Nicholas Run]

ticket writer/cashiers in vegas write and cash races and sports and put up with the same as-hole customers and make no where near what the meadowlands guys are crying about.

especially when you work in a book that likes the locals who are
always by far the worst scumbags around, like dirtbag jerry, bruce the fish and other douches.

When I worked at the Imperial Palace years ago I actually said
to one of the managers that you guys like to bring in locals to a strip
property so why not have the slogan "Imperial Palace we cater to SCUM" :)

[sonnyp]

hard to imagine the pieces of sh-t that hang around those race and sports books thinking they're big, big time gamblers.

[Robert Goren]

Slots ARE within the equasion. Everyone has their price, we're in a society where if you have enough money, everyone is for sale.Does it require a vote of the people? Somehow I got it in my mind that to expand casino gambling outside of AC would require a vote, but I am not sure.

[sonnyp]

i gotta believe it would require a vote but why wouldn't the people vote it in? what's in it for the people by protecting atlantic city ? the place is a toilet, full of corruption, away from the greatest centers of population and it's existence is threatening to kill an entire industry.

if the meadowlands ended up going slots i believe the potential is limitless. i can't imagine the numbers from north jersey that cross the bridge to play slots at yonkers or take the bus to foxwoods and philly.

[Robert Goren]

i gotta believe it would require a vote but why wouldn't the people vote it in? what's in it for the people by protecting atlantic city ? the place is a toilet, full of corruption, away from the greatest centers of population and it's existence is threatening to kill an entire industry.

if the meadowlands ended up going slots i believe the potential is limitless. i can't imagine the numbers from north jersey that cross the bridge to play slots at yonkers or take the bus to foxwoods and philly.I will hazzard a guess here. To keep northern NJ from turning into AC. I have been involved in a small way in several attempts to get casino gambling in Nebraska. I found countless numbers of people who would drive 60 miles and cross state lines to visit a casino, but did not want one in there town.

[onefast99]

Does it require a vote of the people? Somehow I got it in my mind that to expand casino gambling outside of AC would require a vote, but I am not sure.
"It shall be lawful for the Legislature to authorize by law the establishment and operation, under regulation and control by the State, of gambling houses or casinos within the boundaries, as heretofore established, of the city of Atlantic City, county of Atlantic, and to license and tax such operations and equipment used in connection therewith."

[onefast99]

I will hazzard a guess here. To keep northern NJ from turning into AC. I have been involved in a small way in several attempts to get casino gambling in Nebraska. I found countless numbers of people who would drive 60 miles and cross state lines to visit a casino, but did not want one in there town.
Several polls were done in NJ, one by the Hall Institute that showed a solid majority of voters would like slots at the Meadowlands. The area is not a residential zone so there would be no issues with the town of East Rutherford.

[Canarsie]

This just speaks to the fact that racing hasn't replaced its aging fan base. Do you really think that the laptop/Ipod/blackberry/Ipad generation would DEMAND a teller instead of a machine?

Regarding tipping the cashier, I tip my barber because he performs a service for me that I don't want to do myself: cut my own hair.

I don't want to go to a teller. I HAVE to go because the machines don't dispense cash.

You really aren't breaking any new ground here but I guess that's to be expected. Where does the fault lay for not bringing in new fans? First I am only stating what the teller told me I almost never use them and I am part of the aging base.

You can also pour yourself a drink or get a beer do you tip the barmaid/bartender?

But you would be the first one screaming if at the supermarket the people you want to use a machine would use self checkout. Some of these older people take quite a long time I know it bothers me because it defeats the purpose.

Also with your logic you only have to go to the teller once to cash out. If you had an OTW account there is no need to even do that depending where you live.

Having said all of that AGAIN most people at the Meadowlands DEMAND tellers. There are a minimum of 4 in the room I hang out in. Sometimes I have to go outside to use a machine because they are all in use by the minority. When some people play gimmicks (especially supers) they can keep a machine for well over 5 minutes sometimes 10. There have been previous discussions on here about this.

[Robert Goren]

Several polls were done in NJ, one by the Hall Institute that showed a solid majority of voters would like slots at the Meadowlands. The area is not a residential zone so there would be no issues with the town of East Rutherford.Well at least you are not starting in the hole although things do change when the TV ads start. The first time I was involved in this, we had poll showing 63% support. We got beat 58-42. Get ready to spend lots of money to get this thing passed. I was involved in 3 efforts to get casinos and never even came close. The money coming in from surrounding states was huge. And don't under estimate the anti gambling forces. They put in a huge get out the vote effort here all three times. Plus they aren't above going to court to stop or postpone elections. These things are not easy as they would appear at first glance. But NJ is not Nebraska and is more liberal, so maybe, you stand a chance. But if you think all you have to do is get it on the ballot, you are in for a rude awakening.

[onefast99]

Well at least you are not starting in the hole although things do change when the TV ads start. The first time I was involved in this, we had poll showing 63% support. We got beat 58-42. Get ready to spend lots of money to get this thing passed. I was involved in 3 efforts to get casinos and never even came close. The money coming in from surrounding states was huge. And don't under estimate the anti gambling forces. They put in a huge get out the vote effort here all three times. Plus they aren't above going to court to stop or postpone elections. These things are not easy as they would appear at first glance. But NJ is not Nebraska and is more liberal, so maybe, you stand a chance. But if you think all you have to do is get it on the ballot, you are in for a rude awakening.
Right now isn't the time for any gambling referendums in NJ based on the present Governors commitment to AC. Based on the way people are complaining about AC and the monies that are about to be spent by the CRDA to do an AC makeover that should seal the fate of that town and create a need for casino/slots expansion in NJ.

[point given]

Jeff Gural, who is in negotiations to lease Meadowlands from the New Jersey Sports and Exposition Authority, said he met with unionized pari-mutuel tellers April 20 but six of seven members of the negotiating committee boycotted the meeting.................

Gural said he told those who attended he would retain most tellers at Meadowlands and offer others jobs at a planned off-track wagering facility he would build in nearby Bayonne. He said he was “insulted” given the effort he has invested—it included raising about $100 million—to keep the facility open, but remains “optimistic common sense will prevail.”



Read more: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/62610/gural-negotiators-boycott-big-m-meeting#ixzz1K6noNR2r


Read more: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/62610/gural-negotiators-boycott-big-m-meeting#ixzz1K6nUfbfE



http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/62610/gural-negotiators-boycott-big-m-meeting

[DRIVEWAY]

Jeff Gural, who is in negotiations to lease Meadowlands from the New Jersey Sports and Exposition Authority, said he met with unionized pari-mutuel tellers April 20 but six of seven members of the negotiating committee boycotted the meeting................. Gural said he told those who attended he would retain most tellers at Meadowlands and offer others jobs at a planned off-track wagering facility he would build in nearby Bayonne. He said he was “insulted” given the effort he has invested—it included raising about $100 million—to keep the facility open, but remains “optimistic common sense will prevail.”









Negotiations will not begin until after Christie's deadline passes. Gural still thinks he can dictate terms.

Let's see what happens to the handle at Tioga and Vernon Downs with no Meadowlands simulcast revenue. Let the dominos begin to fall.

[GatetoWire]

Negotiations will not begin until after Christie's deadline passes. Gural still thinks he can dictate terms.

Let's see what happens to the handle at Tioga and Vernon Downs with no Meadowlands simulcast revenue. Let the dominos begin to fall.


[/left]
Are you kidding?
Only a Union would turn down the offer Gural gave them.
They will all be on the unemployment line if they don't give their head a shake and take the offer they have.

I guess this is NJ...the only state in the world that still employees people to pump gas!!! :D
Do they have the internet yet in the Garden State???

[DRIVEWAY]

Are you kidding?
Only a Union would turn down the offer Gural gave them.
They will all be on the unemployment line if they don't give their head a shake and take the offer they have.

I guess this is NJ...the only state in the world that still employees people to pump gas!!! :D
Do they have the internet yet in the Garden State???

Only a union could turn down the offer. An individual worker would be layed off already.

New Jersey has it all. Tony "Walnuts" wants to talk to you.:D

[point given]

Are you kidding?
Only a Union would turn down the offer Gural gave them.
They will all be on the unemployment line if they don't give their head a shake and take the offer they have.

I guess this is NJ...the only state in the world that still employees people to pump gas!!! :D
Do they have the internet yet in the Garden State???

No neeed to denigrate the state because some union membeers are living in the past. They are short sighted in their thinking refuse to open up their closed minds. Too bad they will cost alot of others their jobs as well. They are living in the past and close to retirement so they think they are big s....ts. But , they are morons.

[Mike_412]

I guess this is NJ...the only state in the world that still employees people to pump gas!!! :D
Do they have the internet yet in the Garden State???

Say what you want, but when it's 30 degrees out in the middle of winter and I need gas, I'm relaxed in my car while someone else is freezing.

Also, courtesy of the New Jersey Department of Education, the word you're looking for is Employs and not Employees. At least be grammatically correct if you want to take a shot man.

In regard to your internet question, yes, we do indeed have it. How else would I have been able to read your insightful post?

[GatetoWire]

Sorry Boys.....didn't mean to take an low shot a NJ.

It just gets under my skin when society has trouble adapting. Given their skill set the tellers should feel lucky that they have work.

It's thinking like this that prevents racetracks from changing with the times. We should be modernizing racing instead of clinging to ideas and marketing that worked 30 years ago.

[Mike_412]

Sorry Boys.....didn't mean to take an low shot a NJ.

It just gets under my skin when society has trouble adapting. Given their skill set the tellers should feel lucky that they have work.

It's thinking like this that prevents racetracks from changing with the times. We should be modernizing racing instead of clinging to ideas and marketing that worked 30 years ago.

No worries. It's all in good fun.

As for the rest of your post. I couldn't agree more. You're 100% right. Hopefully, common sense will prevail.

[Stillriledup]

Sorry Boys.....didn't mean to take an low shot a NJ.

It just gets under my skin when society has trouble adapting. Given their skill set the tellers should feel lucky that they have work.

It's thinking like this that prevents racetracks from changing with the times. We should be modernizing racing instead of clinging to ideas and marketing that worked 30 years ago.

This isnt a NJ thing as much as its a tellers not understanding what they're giving up thing.

[pandy]

No need to denigrate the state because some union members are living in the past. They are short sighted in their thinking refuse to open up their closed minds. Too bad they will cost alot of others their jobs as well. They are living in the past and close to retirement so they think they are big s....ts. But , they are morons.

I agree on the second part, although why not denigrate the state, writers from the Bergen Record wrote a book about NJ called "The Soprano State," it's so corrupt.

[Robert Goren]

The tellers could work for nothing and it wouldn't make Meadowlands profitable. They make up a very small portion of the expenses it has. Unless they tackle the number one expense, they have no chance. If you think the tellers are stuborn wait till he tries to tackle that.

[pandy]

Gural has issued a statement posted on www.ustrotting.com

[badcompany]

Gural has issued a statement posted on www.ustrotting.com (http://www.ustrotting.com)


"I met with Bob Ligouri, head of the Tellers Union today. However, for reasons known only to themselves, six of the seven members of his negotiating committee boycotted the meeting. In addition to Mr. Ligouri, there was one member of the negotiating committee and three tellers who came on their own because they were concerned.

Personally, after all the work I have put into this I was highly insulted by the decision of six of the seven members of the negotiating committee to boycott the meeting. I think the fact that they chose to do so indicates that they are not really serious about collective bargaining and simply want to see the place closed for reasons that make no sense."
______________

Unbelievable.

The Tellers are like fat ugly chicks who think they're Supermodels.:bang:

[Canarsie]

Maybe I'm one of the few skeptics but if Gural is so fed up and not investing anything but a minimal amount to this venture why doesn't he just walk away? I'm not defending the tellers their stance is incomprehensible but maybe just maybe they know something we don't.

If I was worth millions and only invested 20k why would I continue this? He already stated there was a "drop dead" date and it has passed. He mentions Bayonne, bet he knows how much money that will rake in. Bet they also have picked out plum spots in the state for the future OTW's. Lets not forget the slots his partner (putting up all the money) is Cantor Gaming.

I'm beginning to think Gural has more to lose than the tellers. You don't see Bailey going through hoops like this with Monmouth do you? The contract ends next year (I think) he can't hold on for a year? Super Bowl in 2014 and a Governors election in November of 2013 could slots be enacted down the road?

Think of what I'm saying wouldn't you walk away unless there was more that meets the eye?

[pandy]

It's hard to know all of the reasons why Gural may be involved in this, and I have no doubt that some or all of his investors who put up the $100mil are hoping that they eventually get a casino. Even if they don't get a casino, if the end up owning the property and the track shuts down, the location is valuable and can be used for other things.

But, I don't think there's any question that Gural really cares about harness racing and volunteered his time because he wants to save the sport's number 1 track. Many people in the industry believe that if the Meadowlands closes it will be bad for the sport. Personally I believe that Gural is acting in good faith here and has shown that he has class. The way he's being treated by the union is reprehensible. But who would expect a union in New Jersey to have any class?

[Robert Goren]

It seems to me that he has walked into a mess and looking for someone to blame on his way out. The unions are always a good target.

[onefast99]

It's hard to know all of the reasons why Gural may be involved in this, and I have no doubt that some or all of his investors who put up the $100mil are hoping that they eventually get a casino. Even if they don't get a casino, if the end up owning the property and the track shuts down, the location is valuable and can be used for other things.

But, I don't think there's any question that Gural really cares about harness racing and volunteered his time because he wants to save the sport's number 1 track. Many people in the industry believe that if the Meadowlands closes it will be bad for the sport. Personally I believe that Gural is acting in good faith here and has shown that he has class. The way he's being treated by the union is reprehensible. But who would expect a union in New Jersey to have any class?
The NJSEA is leasing the property under a 5 year lease there is no sale or first rights to purchase the property in the agreement.

[pandy]

The NJSEA is leasing the property under a 5 year lease there is no sale or first rights to purchase the property in the agreement.

Yet. Can't help getting your foot in the door.

[DRIVEWAY]

Full time Teller
Can currently work seven 5 1/2 hour shifts at $24.00hr.
Thats 38 1/2 hrs resulting in $924 per week. In Northern NJ $924 is barely enough to get by. They have great vacation, personal and sick days. Most of their Health care costs are paid by the state. They are members of the state pension plan. A great package for the type of work they are doing and a living wage in Northern NJ.

Gural Offer (As told to me by one of the senior tellers)
Can work up to five 5 1/2 hour shifts at $19.20hr.
Thats 27 1/2 hrs resulting in $529 per week. In Northern NJ $529 is not enough to live on. There will be a 40% reduction in benefit days. Health Insurance payments will increase by about $20 per week. The pension plan with the state and private company are unknowns.

New weekly compensation is $529 - $20(Health) - $38(40% fewer benefit days) resulting in $471 per week. This is a decrease of nearly 50% in compensation per week.

What are the chances that the tellers would vote on this let alone accept these terms.

It's all about the money - the tellers(little guy goes to the poor house) while the rich guy( Gural , Cantor and other investors) laugh all the way to the bank.

[pandy]

Gural originally had a health coverage cut but he changed his mind when the tellers said that was important to them.

This has nothing to do with rich vs poor, it's business. The track loses millions and this is one of the things that has to be changed so it can try to stay open.

[senortout]

Man did not any of youse see the movie?

A really good teller.

Worth the money he earns.

There are exceptions to some of the vitriol posted here.

Watch the movie, as you watch remember some of the fine tellers you have all dealt with over the years.

C'mon.

[Robert Goren]

Gural originally had a health coverage cut but he changed his mind when the tellers said that was important to them.

This has nothing to do with rich vs poor, it's business. The track loses millions and this is one of the things that has to be changed so it can try to stay open.The tellers's wages are a drop in the bucket. The big change has to come in the number of days of live racing and the size of the purses. Anyone who looks at the handle numbers can see that. And that is before he addresses making the game more player friendly by cutting takeout rates which he will have to do if this going to be a long term business. I don't know of anyone (including horsemen) who thinks this sport is sustainable the way it is being run now.

[onefast99]

Yet. Can't help getting your foot in the door.
The state would look to have a bidding process and I am sure if Christie is involved a current AC casino will get the build out.

[Canarsie]

The state would look to have a bidding process and I am sure if Christie is involved a current AC casino will get the build out.

Couldn't agree more.

[DRIVEWAY]

Gural originally had a health coverage cut but he changed his mind when the tellers said that was important to them.

This has nothing to do with rich vs poor, it's business. The track loses millions and this is one of the things that has to be changed so it can try to stay open.

If he changed his mind on the health coverage cuts, then that's a negotiated change that will help the tellers. However, much more is needed. The pay cuts are draconian. The tellers can't live with what he offers.

The classic exodus interview commentary is "It's not personal, It's just business". If you could put yourself in the shoes of the teller, would you accept Gural's offer? You can't blame the tellers for the track closing.

The tellers aren't even willing to vote on Gural's proposal. Christie is closing the track on May 12th. As things stand right now, it's over.

[pandy]

I've had two jobs in my life that paid good money, both sales jobs where I was under heavy pressure to produce and I had to hit quotas. When I worked for Verizon, we had to sign a clause that gave them the power to terminate us if we didn't hit our quota for two months in a row. Plus, we paid into our health care benefits.

Would I accept $19.20 an hour, plus tips, plus paid in full, good health benefits? You bet! We're talking about an easy job here. These guys don't realize how good they have it. Health coverage in that area is very expensive.

[TimesTheyRAChangin]

The tellers can't live with what he offers.


These people are just greedy,AND lazy.Expecting full-time wages for a part-time job.

[DRIVEWAY]

These people are just greedy,AND lazy.Expecting full-time wages for a part-time job.

They have worked 38 1/2 hrs at $24hr for a long time. They are being asked to work 27 1/2 at $19.20hr. They want to keep their full time hours. Who wouldn't.

Greedy is a stretch but lazy is just unfair.

As it stands now, Christie will close the track and the state will stop losing money, with unemployment for the meadowlands employees and no megadeal for Gural and friends.

The track will be missed.

[Robert Goren]

I've had two jobs in my life that paid good money, both sales jobs where I was under heavy pressure to produce and I had to hit quotas. When I worked for Verizon, we had to sign a clause that gave them the power to terminate us if we didn't hit our quota for two months in a row. Plus, we paid into our health care benefits.

Would I accept $19.20 an hour, plus tips, plus paid in full, good health benefits? You bet! We're talking about an easy job here. These guys don't realize how good they have it. Health coverage in that area is very expensive.Spoken like a person who hasn't ever done it. No job where you directly with the public is easy. I work as a teller part time when I was in college. It was a long way from being the easiest job I have had.
Good health care coverage is expensive everywhere, but in today's world you have got to get from your employer or the government. Plans you can get yourself as general rule aren't worth the paper the policy is written on no matter how much you pay for them.

[Canarsie]

The more I think about this the more I don't trust Gural. He's going on shows, giving interviews, I get tons of Google alerts for him, putting up a pittance to get this deal done, he just may be a publicity seeker.

I think another question that hasn't been answered is what kind of profit does he stand to gain from this? Right now this looks to me like he's getting Microsoft or Google stock options from it's inception. No investment and BIG profit?

He also threatened pulling out of the Meadowlands deal if the USTA election didn't swing his way which it did. Download March 12. I highly doubt he would have pulled out knowing the facts as of today.


http://www.harnessracingupdate.com/archive.cfm

How come I really don't know who Morris Bailey is? How come there's not a peep coming out of the Monmouth negotiations? How come we don't hear of any financing or threats from Morris Bailey?

[pandy]

I guess it depends on how you look at it. The people who agree with the tellers are looking at it as a matter of principle. I'm looking at it practically. The health insurance coverage actually becomes more valuable if you work less hours, there are very few companies that pay benefits for part time work. Also, Gural's offer is the only offer on the table, so either they have no job and no health coverage, or a job paying $20 an hour with good health coverage.

A big factor here is the ages. Let's face it, if these tellers were younger they would have voted yes.

[Robert Goren]

You are right. Health care is not a big deal for them, but it should be.

[Canarsie]

Well well well what do we have here? Less than 3 hours after i post my opinion about him different facts come out on the guy.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2011/04/21/2011-04-21_big_m_talks_a_noshow.html

I'm definitely not pro teller but Pandy are you really looking at it practically? Wouldn't the closing of the Meadowlands effect your income since many think it will be harness racing's death knell? Lets face it Dover, Chester, Meadows, and probably Yonkers combined doesn't equal M1's handle. The Meadowlands was the only track that could semi handle a big player and that was with a steady decline in handle.

I try to look at things down the middle here's another to consider. My hunch is most of these guys are eligible for social security and medicare. When you throw in the reduced hours, cut in pay, payment to the health plan they might be working for less than they can get in retirement. I once knew a guy who worked for over 40 years in a job he was basically getting paid 80 cents an hour. His excuse was he didn't want to be home and take his wife shopping all the time.

If I was 40 would vote for this in a second and try to get another full time job. But for a person there for 30 years or however long it takes to get a pension it just might not make economic sense.

[pandy]

I still say the track opens regardless of what the tellers decide. I guess if they don't want their jobs, that's their choice. You can see by what Gural said here but he has decided to take a tougher stance.

[DRIVEWAY]

Gural maintains that he wants to work things out with Local 137, but added he may try to move forward with the project even if the union is not on board.

"Absolutely, if that's the only option, then that would be yes," Gural said. "Because I was personally insulted by their decision not to attend (Wednesday's) meeting."

Gural is going forward with or without the tellers union. Sounds like that was the plan all along.

The next headline reads "New Jersey leases Meadowlands racetrack to Jeff Gural". "The new ownership will offer a fully automated betting experience - tellers are a thing of the past". The moral of the story is don't insult Jeff Gural.

[GatetoWire]

They have worked 38 1/2 hrs at $24hr for a long time. They are being asked to work 27 1/2 at $19.20hr. They want to keep their full time hours. Who wouldn't.

Greedy is a stretch but lazy is just unfair.

As it stands now, Christie will close the track and the state will stop losing money, with unemployment for the meadowlands employees and no megadeal for Gural and friends.

The track will be missed.

It has to really suck to do something for 30 years only to be told that you need to take a pay cut and work less hours but that is what happens in a capitalist society.
I feel bad for the tellers but under the current system they are way overpaid.
Ask any Auto worker about what happens when your business model has to change.
This is 2011. We all bet from home and we all use bank machines, smartphones and computers non stop. The tellers have a job that is just not needed at the same level it was 10-20 years ago. The union has probably saved them for the past few years but they should feel lucky to even have a job the pays $20/hr and provides benefits.

[sonnyp]

the longer this thing draws out and the more gural keeps pressing rather than just walking away the more i feel we're (the public) not getting the whole story.

gural's original position was "we'll take a shot at saving the meadowlands" and if it didn't work .....he tried. now, he seems much more committed, as though there is a greater value and reward for him if it gets done.

i've said slots and possibly a casino type operation may be in the future and again why is there no talk of monmouth park situation ?

[Stillriledup]

the longer this thing draws out and the more gural keeps pressing rather than just walking away the more i feel we're (the public) not getting the whole story.

gural's original position was "we'll take a shot at saving the meadowlands" and if it didn't work .....he tried. now, he seems much more committed, as though there is a greater value and reward for him if it gets done.

i've said slots and possibly a casino type operation may be in the future and again why is there no talk of monmouth park situation ?


The story is he gave the unions a shot to save their tellers jobs. Obviously, they're not too interested in saving them, so, its plan B.

[affirmedny]

How come I really don't know who Morris Bailey is? How come there's not a peep coming out of the Monmouth negotiations? How come we don't hear of any financing or threats from Morris Bailey?

Maybe one reason is 5 million a year in the black Favorites OTB is included in the MONMOUTH deal not the Meadowlands package. Why wouldn't it be bundled with the track that has to close on Sundays for 1/4 of the year? 5 Mil pays a lot of tellers. Oh, and which track is located near and frequented by a lot of rich Republican backers of the Governor? That would be Monmouth. And what else does Morris Bailey own? A casino in the governor's beloved Atlantic City. I thought the tellers were dumb for turning down this deal but now I'm not so sure. The whole thing stinks to high heaven.

[Canarsie]

Maybe one reason is 5 million a year in the black Favorites OTB is included in the MONMOUTH deal not the Meadowlands package. Why wouldn't it be bundled with the track that has to close on Sundays for 1/4 of the year? 5 Mil pays a lot of tellers. Oh, and which track is located near and frequented by a lot of rich Republican backers of the Governor? That would be Monmouth. And what else does Morris Bailey own? A casino in the governor's beloved Atlantic City. I thought the tellers were dumb for turning down this deal but now I'm not so sure. The whole thing stinks to high heaven.


I can't argue with your logic as it's spot on. But don't you think Gural has similar connections?

Plus the economic model projects Bayonne to be the most profitable OTW in the country.


One more thing just to keep a level playing field. While this topic has generated tons of discussion Christie want's to privatize the toll collectors and there hasn't been a peep on here.

http://online.wsj.com/article/AP0f8c3bc9304d4b58ba4b961e0dfe4ca7.html


I use EZ Pass and don't know any toll collectors so there's apathy from me on the subject.

[sonnyp]

after asking my friend why gural doesn't just bypass the tellers and their union i got this response :

Blog: View From the Racetrack Grandstand
Post: Why Not Just Replace the Tellers? Here is Why.
Link: http://viewfromthegrandstand.blogspot.com/2011/04/why-not-just-replace-tellers-here-is.html

[badcompany]

the longer this thing draws out and the more gural keeps pressing rather than just walking away the more i feel we're (the public) not getting the whole story.

gural's original position was "we'll take a shot at saving the meadowlands" and if it didn't work .....he tried. now, he seems much more committed, as though there is a greater value and reward for him if it gets done.


It's a good point, and I've wondered the same thing, myself.

The difference I see between now and when the process started is that Gural has the investors lined up. So, he has more incentive to stick it out to the end.

[Robert Goren]

after asking my friend why gural doesn't just bypass the tellers and their union i got this response :

Blog: View From the Racetrack Grandstand
Post: Why Not Just Replace the Tellers? Here is Why.
Link: http://viewfromthegrandstand.blogspot.com/2011/04/why-not-just-replace-tellers-here-is.html The other thing is that most tellers send plenty of their checks though the windows. He has pissed off a good bit of handle that he can't afford to lose. How sharp is this guy?

[sonnyp]

The other thing is that most tellers send plenty of their checks though the windows. He has pissed off a good bit of handle that he can't afford to lose. How sharp is this guy?

i've seen the tellers that their drawer doesn't check out at the end of their shift cause they've been punching themselves tickets and went overboard.

some of the performances are, truely, worthy of the oscar .

[Canarsie]

The other thing is that most tellers send plenty of their checks though the windows. He has pissed off a good bit of handle that he can't afford to lose. How sharp is this guy?

He must be pretty sharp to invest around 20k, get his name in the papers everyday, make radio and television appearances, put out bulletins, and more.

Don't you think his cut from Cantor Gaming is going to be huge?

Once again if a guy says he has a drop dead date and keeps going past it he NEVER will have any CREDIBILITY with me.

What's a handshake agreement worth with him?

[DRIVEWAY]

http://blogs.northjersey.com/blogs/meadowlandsmatters/comments/meadowlands_racetrack_-_whats_going_on_here/

Gural hints at slots. What was his investor pitch like? Did everyone sign a non-disclosure?

Why wasn't the track and slots put out for a bid? Chris "Casino Fats" Christie has some explaining to do.

[sonnyp]

the longer this thing draws out and the more gural keeps pressing rather than just walking away the more i feel we're (the public) not getting the whole story.

gural's original position was "we'll take a shot at saving the meadowlands" and if it didn't work .....he tried. now, he seems much more committed, as though there is a greater value and reward for him if it gets done.

i've said slots and possibly a casino type operation may be in the future and again why is there no talk of monmouth park situation ?


gural's approach and demeanor has done a 180 degree change. at first he was passive and benevolent but now he's become a shark with blood in the water.

interesting transformation. he didn't make the $$$$$ he's made by being shy.

[baconswitchfarm]

He must be pretty sharp to invest around 20k, get his name in the papers everyday, make radio and television appearances, put out bulletins, and more.

Don't you think his cut from Cantor Gaming is going to be huge?

Once again if a guy says he has a drop dead date and keeps going past it he NEVER will have any CREDIBILITY with me.

What's a handshake agreement worth with him?



I was under the impression that the out of pocket money to review the deal and see if it would work was just under one million. That is before any money comes in from Cantor Gaming. I can see why he is working so hard.

[The Hawk]

How sharp is this guy?

Below is some info. We know you're MUCH sharper, and you can post your accomplishments to illustrate that if you'd like:


From the website of his firm, Newmark Knight Frank, one of the largest independent real estate service firms in the world:

Jeffrey Gural is chairman of Newmark Knight Frank, a full-service commercial real estate firm. With his partner, Barry M. Gosin, Mr. Gural has steered Newmark Knight Frank since 1978, when it served only the New York area. Under his auspices, Newmark Knight Frank first completed a successful national expansion in 2001 and then grew to expand internationally in 2006 through a strategic partnership with London-headquartered Knight Frank. Newmark Knight Frank now provides coverage from over 200 offices worldwide.

Mr. Gural is responsible for the managing and leasing of the 8 million square feet of properties in which Newmark Knight Frank's partners have ownership. Newmark Knight Frank currently manages approximately one hundred fifty buildings in the Metropolitan area, of which they have an ownership interest in forty-one buildings. Mr. Gural oversees all acquisitions, as well as the overall supervision of the company's non-institutional portfolio.

Mr. Gural is a graduate of Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, with a degree in Civil Engineering.

How sharp is this guy?

[Canarsie]

I was under the impression that the out of pocket money to review the deal and see if it would work was just under one million. That is before any money comes in from Cantor Gaming. I can see why he is working so hard.


You could be right someone on here said 20k it wasn't disputed then. He's sharp maybe that's all he put up he others got an equity sake who knows.

Still I don't trust the guy he gave a drop dead date and broke his word. Being a Brooklyn boy whatever he says from now on is to be taken with a grain of salt.

[Pacingguy]

Trust me, he may have only $20K in now. By the time this deal comes through, he will have more skin in this deal.

[Bluto Blutarsky]

http://blogs.northjersey.com/blogs/meadowlandsmatters/comments/meadowlands_racetrack_-_whats_going_on_here/

Gural hints at slots. What was his investor pitch like? Did everyone sign a non-disclosure?

Why wasn't the track and slots put out for a bid? Chris "Casino Fats" Christie has some explaining to do.

Conspiracy Theorists-
Cantor Gaming- part of the Cantor Fitzgerald family.
Chris Christie's wife works for Cantor Fitzgerald.

[Canarsie]

http://sboanj.com/index.asp?Key=2086

[GatetoWire]

http://sboanj.com/index.asp?Key=2086

Very interesting article.
This quote says it all “If they take this pay cut they’re going to be making what they made 20, 25 years ago and they don’t want to do that.”

Article makes it pretty clear that the tellers just don't understand that their jobs are not needed at the same level they were 10-15 years ago.

20-25 years ago were boom times for racing. These folks just don't realize that they are lucky to have a job with their skill set that pays $20/hr.

I know that seniority used to matter in America. Now, no company really takes care of their employees. It's all about the bottom line. Sad, but true.

[Canarsie]

http://blogs.app.com/capitolquickies/2011/04/26/labor-peace-at-the-meadowlands-racetrack/

Some more articles from today.

http://www.drf.com/news/mutuel-clerks-creating-high-drama-meadowlands

http://www.standardbredcanada.ca/news/4-26-11/report-njtha-wants-operate-big-m.html

[baconswitchfarm]

The story was just released that the union executive board has agreed to support a new agreement with Gural. The people still have to vote but the board supporting this should make it happen.

[Rackon]

Maybe a resolution:

http://www.standardbredcanada.ca/news/4-26-11/meadowlands-agreement-reached.html

As someone who'd raced harness horses @ Meadowlands, the thought of this track closing is mroe than discouraging.

[Robert Goren]

The story was just released that the union executive board has agreed to support a new agreement with Gural. The people still have to vote but the board supporting this should make it happen.Was there any doubt that this would happen? Now he going to have to get the horsemen to make major concessions to make Meadowlands work. I wish him luck with that.

[Canarsie]

Done deal

http://www.northjersey.com/news/042611_Meadowlands_Racetrack_teller_unions_leaders _accept_deal.html?scpromo=1&c=y

[sonnyp]

Was there any doubt that this would happen? Now he going to have to get the horsemen to make major concessions to make Meadowlands work. I wish him luck with that.


you keep refering to this as a "big" issue. why ? i know guys who race there as their main track. they, as a group, were scared the big m was goin to close and they were faced with putting homes, farms etc. on a lousy market.

we just heard a huge sigh of relief from tom luchento and his group of horsemen.

whatever gural offers, the horsemen will gladly sign on the bottom line.

what about monmouth ?

[point given]

Great to hear that some sanity prevailed afteer they were read the riot act. Will be interesting to see how things progress here on out in mudville the 76ers have struck out.

[thespaah]

Full time Teller
Can currently work seven 5 1/2 hour shifts at $24.00hr.
Thats 38 1/2 hrs resulting in $924 per week. In Northern NJ $924 is barely enough to get by. They have great vacation, personal and sick days. Most of their Health care costs are paid by the state. They are members of the state pension plan. A great package for the type of work they are doing and a living wage in Northern NJ.

Gural Offer (As told to me by one of the senior tellers)
Can work up to five 5 1/2 hour shifts at $19.20hr.
Thats 27 1/2 hrs resulting in $529 per week. In Northern NJ $529 is not enough to live on. There will be a 40% reduction in benefit days. Health Insurance payments will increase by about $20 per week. The pension plan with the state and private company are unknowns.

New weekly compensation is $529 - $20(Health) - $38(40% fewer benefit days) resulting in $471 per week. This is a decrease of nearly 50% in compensation per week.

What are the chances that the tellers would vote on this let alone accept these terms.

It's all about the money - the tellers(little guy goes to the poor house) while the rich guy( Gural , Cantor and other investors) laugh all the way to the bank.
Laugh all the way to the bank?

I gotta love this crap..Gural and company are risking ONE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS..if the clerks lose their jobs they go on a unemployment or find other work. Gural and his investors are stuck with a 9 figure bill. What in God's green earth are you talking about?
BTW, the position of mutuel clerk is an unskilled data entry job that in the day of automated self service machines,is barely needed. Anyone can be a mutuel clerk. $24 per hour is inappropriate. These people should not be paid this much. No way. Their wage is higher than most skilled tradesmen, if they can find work. So please, don't whine about the "little guy....$924 per week is nearly $50k per year. And under the current deal many clerks were working double shifts to pad their income...That does NOT include benefits...All funded by the taxpayers.
Oh...In the real world one must work a full time job (40hrs per week) to get full time benefits...These people are part time workers getting full time benefits. All on the taxpayer dole.
$20 per week HA! Poor little guys....We pay $500 per month through my wife's employer and that is for 80% coverage with a $1000 annual deductible.....I really don't want to hear it.
These [ricks are closing the racetrack with their selfish and short sighted outlook. They care only for themselves. Now they have NO job. The result is a net income of ZERO.. Yeah that's logical.
This is why so many of the producers HATE unions.
Oh, and most of these jagoffs will apply for and receive unemployment. So the taxpayers of NJ get hit again.

[DRIVEWAY]

Laugh all the way to the bank?

I gotta love this crap..Gural and company are risking ONE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS..if the clerks lose their jobs they go on a unemployment or find other work. Gural and his investors are stuck with a 9 figure bill. What in God's green earth are you talking about?
BTW, the position of mutuel clerk is an unskilled data entry job that in the day of automated self service machines,is barely needed. Anyone can be a mutuel clerk. $24 per hour is inappropriate. These people should not be paid this much. No way. Their wage is higher than most skilled tradesmen, if they can find work. So please, don't whine about the "little guy....$924 per week is nearly $50k per year. And under the current deal many clerks were working double shifts to pad their income...That does NOT include benefits...All funded by the taxpayers.
Oh...In the real world one must work a full time job (40hrs per week) to get full time benefits...These people are part time workers getting full time benefits. All on the taxpayer dole.
$20 per week HA! Poor little guys....We pay $500 per month through my wife's employer and that is for 80% coverage with a $1000 annual deductible.....I really don't want to hear it.
These [ricks are closing the racetrack with their selfish and short sighted outlook. They care only for themselves. Now they have NO job. The result is a net income of ZERO.. Yeah that's logical.
This is why so many of the producers HATE unions.
Oh, and most of these jagoffs will apply for and receive unemployment. So the taxpayers of NJ get hit again.

It sounds like your wife should have found a job as a teller or married someone who could provide her with quality healthcare.

It appears the tellers have settled. Hope things workout better for your wife.

[thespaah]

It sounds like your wife should have found a job as a teller or married someone who could provide her with quality healthcare.

It appears the tellers have settled. Hope things workout better for your wife.
Hey...you take care. DO NOT MAKE this personal and don't you dare disrespect my wife. You got it.....
Do it again and I report you to PA.
Fair warning.

[sonnyp]

Was there any doubt that this would happen? Now he going to have to get the horsemen to make major concessions to make Meadowlands work. I wish him luck with that.


it's hard to believe the thorobred guys would throw a monkey wrench into this at this point. they're not even a factor at the meadowlands !!

if this was the group of horsemen you were referring to, you may have been correct :

http://xwebapp.ustrotting.com/absolutenm/?a=42139&z=63 (http://xwebapp.ustrotting.com/absolutenm/?a=42139&z=63)